Prophecies in the Christmas Story

In recounting his version of the story of Jesus’ birth, the author of the gospel of Matthew tells readers “All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet.” But how well do the Christmas stories in Matthew and Luke align with prophecies about the coming Messiah in the Hebrew Bible (or Old Testament)?

In this live streamed lecture John Hamer of Toronto Centre Place will outline the prophecies cited by the evangelists and the insight they give into the creative and non-literalistic way the earliest Christians understood scripture. A Q&A will follow the lecture. Participants are encouraged to ask questions about this topic on the live chat. Tuesday, December 14, at 7 pm EST.

Lecture topics include:
Who are the prophets of the Bible?
What is a prophecy?
Examples of prophecies
How Christians interpreted prophecies throughout history
The Christmas Story in the Gospel of Matthew
What the Old Testament prophecies really talk about
What was the author of Matthew trying to communicate
How Matthew’s audience would have interpreted the text
#lecture #christmas #cofchrist

[@davidfolts5893]

Learning from John is one of life’s greatest pleasures. Thank you for your teachings.

[@hantms]

The longer the better. I love the videos where you go a full hour of framing things, historical tidbits, a couple interruptions and tangential questions, Shaheen pitches a curve ball and then we all arrive at the topic of the lecture. :D The journey is the destination for me. :)

[@johnnielamb6277]

Thank you for you videos

[@vics6353]

I prefer the ones that you do with the audience. It's an interesting and diverse group of people. I miss them.

[@noahbody9747]

Enjoyed the lecture. I'm glad you mentioned the quotes used by the authors were taken out of context. Even when it's pointed out, people still refuse to accept the misreading of the quotes in Matthew and Luke.

[@Nick_BRZ]

Only 9k views?! This is so well done! I hope this channel catches traction and this excellent analysis goes viral. So well done yet accessible. Unlike Elon’s rocket, y’all are headed to the stars 💫

[@elizabethlauritzen9596]

Excellent so informative thank you

[@angelaparente4470]

Dear Herman thanks for the great lectures we learn a lot from them,! Merry Christmas to all of you

[@donwolff6463]

You guys are doing a good job in providing relevant information. I've listened to nearly all of you lectures and find few times to take any small issue with, whereas nearly everything else you do a most expert job at presenting both historically and accurately. Kudos to you and the folks there who add so much of the human character to your lectures. It helps bring not only more info often but gives a real personal and caring aspect to an otherwise detached media environment. I would request a topic on interpolation in the Bible and the translation of the various manuscripts. I would very much appreciate your take on the issues. I've listened to the top biblical scholars in the issue and found few who were not absolutely wanting on the task. Please, please consider this topic to present. Thank you ever so much (Also, I have some more serious questions about the texts I would like to discuss with you, so if you could reach out to me that would be most appreciated)

[@donwolff6463]

Oh also.... I have a real historical reason for why there is not a nativity scene in Mark and why there is such in Mat and Luke. Also an actual workable reason why the disciples appear so ignorant... i am trying to write a book on a bunch of research conducted over the past years and would love your expert opinion on some thoughts I have.

[@andybunn5780]

Sound was great on this one!

[@FireEverLiving]

This format is great, and I'm grateful that I was able to watch live. John seems a bit less comfortable talking to a camera than to a live audience, but it is *very* nice for him to not be interrupted all the time. Many of the past lectures are long mainly due to interruptions, digressions, and extensive introductory material. That said, I certainly wouldn't *mind* longer lectures. A major theme across these lectures is that the bible is far from infallible. Considering this, and speaking as someone without any committed position here, I'm curious where John and/or CoC thinks that our understanding of the divine should originate. Is the idea that you're just supposed to read stuff - not even just the canonical bible - and let the holy spirit guide you?

[@RomanPhilosopher]

I'm probably the only one but I find all these lectures to not be long enough and I really like the audiences questions, comments, and moments of song. It adds to the experience for me.

[@hantms]

I kind of like the questions, even when they're awkward. It also adds to the whole vibe and atmosphere, and is probably a reason why people like to visit these in person.

[@mungox1]

@@Dude0000 Joseph Smith thought of that and made his own translation for LDS. He didn't start with Greek, Hebrew or Latin, he started with the KJV. Strange but true

[@VSP4591]

@@Dude0000 There are VERY useful.

[@andrewsuryali8540]

@@RomanPhilosopher They brought in Elizabeth through zoom in one of the later lectures, but it was a mess and she didn't sing, unfortunately.

[@bothewolf3466]

I dig the home-made era-appropriate Nativity wear in the photo.

[@clairesilverman3345]

I wish there would be a lecture on Christmas traditions

[@mosessupposes2571]

Saturnalia and Yule

[@hantms]

I have a question; would you say that having origins in the Latter Day Saints church and having had the decades long experience dealing with the historicity of the Book of Mormon and coming to the realization that it cannot logically be historical fact (while still gaining inspiration from it) that this is a foundation for approaching the Old and New Testament in a similar way, as there is a lot there too that doesn't necessarily need to be taken as gospel (pardon the pun), from front to back?

[@robertarnold3394]

The issue that Jesus’ own family considered him insane comes up in much literature in a cryptic sort of way. For instance, Dostoyevski’s character of the Grand Inquisitor and more generally the principle of “noble lie” as applied to Christianity.

[@valdevito7914]

Hi, great lecture. Thanks so much. Luke recounts that Caesar Augustus ordered a census and that was used to explain Jesus’ birth in Bethlehem. Is there any other evidence for this census outside of the Gospel from Roman or Greek sources? I would imagine it would have been a big deal and also recorded elsewhere. Thanks so much

[@VSP4591]

There is no record of such census outside Luke Gospel. Nobody mentioned such a census and the request to go at the dwellings in existence 800 years ago on the time of David is strange at least.

[@curbroadshow]

The census was in the year 6CE after Herod the great had died, and Quirinius was made the governor of Syria, which contradicts the generally accepted date of the birth of Jesus, and the story/myth of Herod killing Israelite children.

[@VSP4591]

@@curbroadshow Herod the Great died in 4 BCE. At that time Jesus was in Egipt according to Mathew. According to Luke, after his birth Jesus went strait to Jerusalem and was circumcised. So there are many conflicting stories. Publius Sulpicius Quirinius was the Legate (governor) of the province of Roman Syria and got the duty to carry out a census of the new province for tax purposes. The problem is the census took place in 6 CE, nine years after Herod's death in 4 BCE. We know that Herod had ordered the killing of children from Bethleem younger that 2 years so the birth of Jesus could be in 5 or 6 BCE (according to Matthew). Not so easy to reconcile all these.

[@curbroadshow]

@@VSP4591 No, agreed. There is also no corroborating evidence that Herod actually killed babies. According to Josephus, In his later years he got paranoid and tried to kill his ministers, but no mention of killing Hebrew children, which you’d think would have been included if it had actually happened.

[@VSP4591]

@@curbroadshow Matthew Gospel said so about killing the innocents. Herod the Great killed 3 of his 10 or so sons, his second wife and many others others. Probably nobody would prove with proofs that he ordered the killings. There are many contradictory information.

[@chutspe]

"Spiral Architect"

[@nicholasherman3275]

Where is he getting that JC was born on Christmas there is no record in the bible that JC was born on Christmas

[@andrewsuryali8540]

This question is ass-backwards. Christmas is defined as Jesus' birthday. The DATE of Christmas was decided later.

[@eristic1281]

My impression from the lectures is that a lot of the things allegedly said by, did by, and done to Jesus never happened. And a lot of the things that did happen are not recorded or did not survive. What does it mean to be a Christian, then? To follow the teachings of some itinerary peacher is pretty hard when you know very little about what he actually said (even the Jesus Seminar put that figure at around 22%). To say that the canonized books are heavenly inspired doesn't take one to conclude that Jesus is to be worshipped, let alone to the different christologies. What does it mean to call oneself a Christian knowing most of the stuff about Christ is fake?

[@coreymoore8791]

What does it mean to be human, knowing that most of our lives are full of imagined constructs?

[@mungox1]

@@Dude0000 the Golden Rule is in many religions or belief systems before Jesus, the earliest is Confucianism. I never researched but I imagine many other beliefs predate Jesus or Socrates

[@eristic1281]

@@Dude0000 The Golden Rule isn't really genius. I sure don't want kinky folks to do to me what they would want to be done to them. Given the history of the Jewish rebellions since 17 BCE against the Roman taxation, I wouldn't concur with your interpretation of the Render Unto Caesar passage. Anyways, my question remains unexplained. Part of it is my fault. I was referring to the traditional notion of a Christian, that is, someone who believes that 1. Jesus is God (second member of the Trinity); 2. he sacrificed for the sins of humans; and salvation can only be attained through him.

[@jounik8980]

Why would gentiles convert to jew, was christianity easy way or just for poor

[@venenareligioest410]

There are NO prophets in religion only profits!

[@allasaurous2738]

Strange doctrine

[@moirarussell1950]

Wow... depressing. Unusual angle. Wherever there's ambiguity the take is spirit quenching. Odd study. Hopefully you can talk it over heaven someday soon.