Cessna Citation Ablaze in Jamestown and More

[@akb5531]

I really like your channel. Getting a different side of these accidents is very interesting & I've learned a lot from you. Thank you for the job you do & thank you for taking the time to do your channel!

[@Nekirium]

1️⃣ The Citation was heading to Florida from Dunkirk Airport (KDKK) in New York. 2️⃣ As the plane was climbing through 10,000 feet, the flight crew reported a loss of electrical power and chose to divert to the airport in Jamestown. 3️⃣ As the Citation was landing on runway 25 at the Jamestown Airport, it impacted the beginning of the runway surface and veered off to the left. 4️⃣ The Citation then caught on fire but not before both pilots made it out of the plane. 5️⃣ Fire damage was noted on runway 25 and grass along the airplane's path on the ground. 6️⃣ The airplane came to rest upright and was consumed by the fire.

[@paulputnam2305]

Thank You for the update Keoni. Yes, the 2nd one was very, very sad. Prayers for everyone involved with this tragedy. On the 1st one it’s like a miracle they made it safe and sound considering the size of the fire. ARFF Heroes are Awesomeness Extreme! Much Love and Hugs.

[@ARFFWorld]

Thanks Paul. Thanks for showing up. Mixed results today

[@TheGospelQuartetParadise]

Sad to see the loss of life in Oklahoma. Prayers and condolences to the families. Glad that the pilots made it out safely in Jamestown.

[@ARFFWorld]

Thank you. Brazil tragedy today too

[@TheGospelQuartetParadise]

@@ARFFWorld I am just seeing that on dailymail... It doesn't look like there will be any survivors. Engines sounded as if they were running during that spiral.

[@robstanton9215]

So glad they got out of the Citation. So sorry for the Bonanza occupants 🙏 As I always say, it’s comforting to know you ARFF crews are there!!

[@ARFFWorld]

Right on. 👍

[@9111logic]

Thanks for the update Keoni 🙏

[@ARFFWorld]

Thank you Mauro

[@jimmydulin928]

Prayers for the Beechcraft family. It was a fine choice for forced landing, but pilots are not trained fully in the use of rudder alone. When, on forced landing, we see an obstacle late it is fine to use full rudder to yaw away and the full rudder the other way to get back on the desired landing line. We would use this technique when too low to turn without putting a wing into terrain. So much has been made of the skidding spin during the base to final turn that it is difficult to get students and experienced pilots to realize we can use full rudder yaw when we have airspeed and we are generally too fast on forced landings anyway. We crop dusters actually use this technique to miss telephone poles and trees in the field but stay in the same swath row beyond. If the obstacle is going to clip the outboard right wing, we first apply full left rudder to yaw away from the obstacle. Next we apply full right rudder to return to our swath row beyond the obstacle. As soon as we apply full right rudder the nose will point toward but beyond the obstacle a bit. We actually pass the obstacle with less airplane that way as the nose is shorter than the right wing. Of course when at three feet AGL in the field, we cross control a bit (use a bit of right aileron with the left rudder and a bit of left aileron with the right rudder) to stay absolutely wings level. That is not necessary if descending before the touchdown spot on a forced landing. I have had to use the technique only once on forced landing to miss a pump stand on the irrigation canal dike I was using for a forced landing spot. I realize that few who learn this technique will actually have an opportunity to use it on a forced landing. That doesn't detract from its value. We are much more comfortable with airplanes when we have examined the full capabilities of all the controls. Rudder especially and even throttle are not fully taught and safety is therefore compromised.

[@ARFFWorld]

Thank you Jimmy

[@WorthTalking2]

unrelated, but. ...bless all the souls just lost on that flight downed in São Paulo, Brazil.

[@ARFFWorld]

Thank you 🙏

[@steveturner3999]

Can't wait to see how the Bonanza and haybale incident plays out. Sad ending for sure. R.I.P. Thanks Keoni.

[@ARFFWorld]

@@steveturner3999 for sure Steve thank you

[@VLove-CFII]

Thanks Kioni 👍

[@ARFFWorld]

Any time Love!

[@FlyMeAirplane]

They didn't put out the fire. The citation burned to the ground!

[@ARFFWorld]

😆

[@Ch1n4Sailor]

They did a great job??? Like they pointed the hoses at the correct aircraft? Now if the pilots / crew were trapped inside the aircraft and they rescued them, then BY ALL MEANS, FANTASTIC job… Aside from that… Like the mail courier did a Great job delivering my mail to the correct mail box!!??

[@RaysDad]

I didn't know that foam could be purchased in buckets. Having nothing better to do I checked a firefighter equipment website, and airport fire protection foam is available in 5, 55, and 265 gallon pails. I wonder if foam is something people who live in rural areas without fire hydrants should keep on hand, especially those who live in highly-flammable homes (like mobile homes)?

[@ARFFWorld]

Those smaller buckets are used for pouring in from the top and are already premixed to 3%

[@thereissomecoolstuff]

K you said the quiet part out loud. lol. I think that was extra foam if they needed it.

[@ARFFWorld]

@@thereissomecoolstuff lol just in case

[@thereissomecoolstuff]

@@ARFFWorld they will dig up that dirt along with the fire debris. They aren’t playing with that stuff. How’s the little one doing?

[@foxtrot_delta3042]

Just because 5 gallon buckets are on the ground does not mean the ARFF rig did not have foam inside; terrible assumption. For them not to have foam in the tanks would be malpractice. My thinking is a support crew took it on sight as part of the support plan. The fire is out so they could just be replenishing the truck on scene.

[@lewisparker4488]

Will it be ready to fly in the morning.

[@chrisc161]

Are Fire trucks used by Municipalities different than the ones airports?

[@ARFFWorld]

Yes. Airports has way more water

[@QAKiv]

Time 1:17 … “A lot of fire … a lot of fun…” fun … really … fun…???…. Dude you’re more concerned about the foam than what happened to the flight and the crew.

[@Nekirium]

You mentioned a fireball when you were talking about the Cessna Citation. I saw the Citation on fire, but i didnt see a fireball.

[@ARFFWorld]

@@Nekirium it’s just wording. I mean the whole thing was on fire

[@Pilotc180]

A very expensive landing

[@JSFGuy]

Right, this took some serious circumstances.

[@ARFFWorld]

@@JSFGuy thanks for being first !

[@JSFGuy]

@@ARFFWorld 🙋

[@greggrace967]

I wonder if the insurance called that a total loss or tried to fix it?

[@ARFFWorld]

Just a little smokey

[@greggrace967]

Lol.

[@theresacaron4238]

Looks like the Bonanza was trying to return to airport which they never accomplish after any kind of failure, climb gradient is too shallow.

[@ARFFWorld]

@@theresacaron4238 appreciate your take Theresa

[@jimmydulin928]

Airspeed, and not altitude, is life down low. I survived many forced landings crop dusting and patrolling pipelines because I always had maneuvering airspeed. Wolfgang calls it zoom reserve airspeed or the law of the roller coaster. In any airplane, but especially airplane far less powerful than the Bonanza, I get the nose wheel just off, the mains off well below Vso, level the fuselage and stay in low ground effect until cruise airspeed (zoom reserve airspeed), and pitch to just over the obstruction to save that valuable kinetic energy. Zoom reserve airspeed is kinetic energy with or without the engine. Every swath run in crop fields is the same. Acceleration level in low ground effect and pitch to just over the obstruction. So the shallow climb gradient is a good thing as it preserves zoom reserve energy. Too many hurry to get just high enough to really hurt themselves when the engine fails. Now they have not much altitude and zero zoom reserve airspeed. Too many fall from that height for which they gave up saving airspeed. We tend not to handle trading potential energy of altitude for airspeed to keep flying as well as we would handle cruise airspeed if we had that when the engine quit. Try Vcc. You will like it. Neither Vx nor Vy is ever appropriate on long runways. Why? Because at Vx or Vy pitch attitude for three seconds with no engine, the outcome of the maneuver is always in doubt.

[@davidd6635]

@@jimmydulin928 Don't you mean, the mains off well Above Vso? Not below Vso? Thanks for your input for us to learn. RIP, and comfort for families and friends.

[@jimmydulin928]

@@davidd6635 Vso, an out of ground effect number, has nothing to do with either takeoff or landing. The wing will lift the weight well below Vso in low ground effect (it starts at one inch.) The unnecessary friction loss and unused ground effect energy rolling all the way to Vx or Vy is tremendous. Leaving ground effect with thousands of feet of runway left give up even more free rapid acceleration energy. Unless the obstruction is actually a thousand feet down the runway, we are bleeding an excessive amount of energy climbing out of ground effect. Even at a thousand feet, low powered and light airplanes can gain 50% of total energy available using low ground effect if they use elevator to get level into low ground effect well below Vso (as soon as the wing will lift.) Get off and then work the elevator for/aft just a bit to bracket level in low ground effect. Don't stay at the high pitch attitude. You are welcome. Come to 2H2. I work with all the instructors on this stuff.

[@MikeBrown-ex9nh]

How do you hit a hay bale sitting there all by itself?

[@MikeBrown-ex9nh]

@RetreadPhoto None of which explain hitting a hay bale when there is plenty of room around it. You described a bunch of pilot errors including improper airspeed, improper go around procedures, and lack of preflight procedures. Mechanical failure of control surfaces is possible, but unlikely.

[@raffyzoo2130]

old junk 4 mill, new cessna citation is 29 million bucks. oh, who pays? hahaha

[@mikemicksun6469]

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[@togacruiser]

We really don’t care about the effect that foam has on the environment or the type of fire truck. We came here for airplane accident info. Thanks for what you do. Great site other than that.

[@ARFFWorld]

Who is “we”? I have many viewers that primarily care about that.

[@togacruiser]

Sorry I don’t care about the environment when I read a crash report from you. Some poor slub is laying in the bottom of a smoking hole and we ,sorry you worry about the environmental effect of the retardant. Thats how we lost Halon. It detracts from an otherwise good site. But I’m sure there are people who are really concerned about it. So have at it. You have a good site. Congratulations on your reporting.

[@lutomson3496]

what is pathetic the ARFF doesnt have foam, when taxpayers pay for it, when I was in fire in the USN we always had foam...this should be investigated...