CFM is dead. MAF is what matters. Gale explains | Speed School Podcast Ep 7

Gale is joined by grandson Erik Reider, Banks' Special Projects Lead. Erik and Gale explain how measuring CFM on an industry-standard airflow bench can be misleading. Measuring mass air flow is what the engine really cares about. The engine needs to know the mass of the air, not just its volume.
"We're not talking CFM to the public anymore," says Gale. "We've used CFM because it's a convenient comparison. But our literature and website will all go to mass flow. If you want to compare your products to ours, you'll have to use mass flow. That's what the engine cares about. Or, we'll just compare your stuff for you."
Gale also explains why innovation in the speed equipment industry is being stifled and how he aims to inject new ideas.
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00:00 Intro
00:57 Why we supercharged a Duramax
02:00 CFM is a volumetric flow rate
03:00 Why CFM doesn't provide enough data
05:00 What is air density
10:40 Measuring Mass Air Flow
13:00 Adapting flow bench to measure MAF
21:00 MAF sensors
24:00 Devices that increase air density
26:00 Importance of air pressure
29:35 Flow bench does not measure flow
32:18 Smokey Yunick's crazy contraption
39:00 Monster-Ram MAF tests explained
42:00 Why innovation has ceased
49:00 Gale answers questions

[@tools6106]

Gale I am a 55 year old welder on disability. I was 168IQ before I got viral meningitis. I have always dabbled in racing and created combinations that the factory never meant for operation. Some worked of course some did not. I love your passion for going fast, but not at the cost of dependable power! Sometimes your discussions just go straight over my head and that is something I haven’t had a lot in my life. God bless you for keeping all of us thinking hard trying to keep up! Keep on keeping on! Peace, Paul Seaman

[@blythewarland5459]

I used to teach physics in a previous life. I’m building a diesel motor home and learning so much as everything you post is so damned logical. I love your ability to explain things so well. You guys are so knowledgeable and sharing of that knowledge I am so impressed

[@bankspower]

Thanks for the compliments!

[@billylee2312]

@@bankspower you deserve it!! Your ability to explain logic better than anyone! The EPA needs to get with you and learn how a diesel could be more efficient and cleaner without all the def and emission components used now!

[@johnnystanley4469]

Gale thanks for sharing , I have been a big fan of yours for years, thank you for sharing , your knowledge with us, it is so great that your family is such a big part of the business, God bless you Sir.

[@davidbottles3035]

Waiting to see LokJaw running.

[@cucvfarmer]

Very good podcast!!! I love it that Gale Banks has 3 generations working there!!! I can tell family means the world to Gale. I hope it doesn't Happen for many years but when Gale retires he can have his family take over and nothing will change in the company.

[@AtlasLathe]

Don Garlits museum has Smokey`s machine he built to spin engines to improve airflow.

[@bankspower]

Great tip! We'll check out the museum.

[@ralphgregory7616]

When MAF sensors first made they're way into my world,it was an Isuzu sports car... During PDI,you could feel the car change, driveability wise,when driving behind a high CO/HC emitting vehicle.ECU updates followed to cure it's ills

[@wademiyataki9221]

Well, we’re glad you’re not dead yet! While at the Don Garlits museum, you can also look at the fiero with the hot vapor cycle engine in it. Also, you could try to contact Daniel Soliz at Hill County Performance and Machine. He’s restoring Smokey’s Plymouth Horizon with the hot vapor engine. In fact, he’s got a story about a talk you gave at SEMA, where you asked a question of the audience and his wife, Elaine, raised her hand because she wasn’t sure about the term you had asked about, and you took the time to explain it to her. I’m sure they would love to speak with you again.

[@ralphgregory7616]

Currently pursuing this objective: TT BBC Old school Banks draw thru system,converted to multi-port EFI w/Timing Control, MAFS,IAC & DBW in my 22' Schiada V-Drive 😎

[@REDLINEBECKONZ]

That song tho lmao. Good episode like always budd. You are an inspiration.

[@Garth2011]

Damn straight Gale. There are hundreds of companies, performance parts or not, who have been riding on the tails of the innovators and/or creators of yesteryears, the company name. Got to say, there are hundreds of them who couldn't hold the skills for one reason or another but mostly is due to the next generation not wanting to continue the company. Those who do just don't have what it takes so they didn't listen good enough to their fathers etc. Sad...it's everywhere. I can remember the days I worked a short time with Bob Palmini in San Gabriel (Bob's Dyno). I learned much and it was because he could communicate mechanics very well and of course I had an interest in the subject so it all set in.

[@bobbywalter5320]

Non stop awesomeness

[@coreyfro]

Hey Banks fam!!! This episode was gold! I am going to have to digest it a few times. I have a question. I am building a ram-air box and I notice, most ram-air boxes don't follow some idealized stream. Often times the flow of the intake air is 90 digress from the filter's tube. Is there something about the filter that just nullifies any benefit from keeping the air flow in a stream? I imagine the mass of air has inertia that doesn't enjoy moving like a Tron Light Cycle. Also... have you ever built an engine out of just turbos?! Like...cut out the useless engine block, just have a compressor...then combustion...then turbines? That's a free patent for you. Go nuts!

[@al_capad]

you need laminar flow for MAF sensor, usually, so turn and ribs will "order" the airflow

[@coreyfro]

@@al_capad awesome! Thanks! Where do I find out more?

[@x808drifter]

@@coreyfro Google.

[@coreyfro]

@@x808drifter yo dog, I have built flow straighteners for drag testing underwater autonomous vehicles, CNC chip clearing and tool clearing, and power panel heat dissipation. So Google would be searching me.

[@iamjimbus]

Two things: 1) Can CAN be retrofitted to a preCAN engine and is there an existing platform for that? 2) When are you going to get back to blowing up your Duromax? Last I saw you were up to over 950HP with jus tturbo, injectors, oiling and inlet tube improvement, but it didn't seem like you were anywhere near the physical limitations of the long block. Keep on fighting the good fight! JimB

[@deankay4434]

@Jim Babcock > This is a good question but CAN or controller area network comes down to hardware inside the Power Train Controller and software. GM introduced CAN in 2004 in the Corvette and was high speed serial data. It switches at 2us and high bus goes 1 volt high as low bus goes 1 volt low. Including a network of wires twisted 9 times per foot helps prevent RFA and mutual induction from intruding the signal allowing for very fast switching sending clean signals now in a bi-directional signals. Originally, used for suspension control with sensors on all four wheels to a controller that included a lateral pitch and Yaw sensor. This gave the controller the ability to change the strength of a magnetic field at each strut. Instead of traditional oil and calving inside the strut, they placed a sealed wire wound coil whose magnetic field could increase or decrease as wheel and body movements. Instead of traditional shock / strut oil, they contained magnito-reologocal fluid that the viscosity can change from a 5W to almost a solid in 2us. Giving the system the ability to float over bumps and holes in the road. The wheel speeds up as it falls into a pot-hole, as it exists it slows, so smoothing the accel / decell is ABS in reverse but reduced upon extension and adding stiffness to the rebound. But this is suspension. For other controls, systems have evolved. Both high-speed CAN and low-speed CAN are both in use. Depending on the company and the engine management system the use changed. I can only share with you what 6 serial data systems GM has used on their systems. It is definitely not a plug-N-play upgrade. Hope this helps. DK, ASE master tech since 78, ACDelco tech seminars, classes and market area service manager.

[@fredmitchel1236]

Good job Gale...

[@TaylorFeist206]

Can we get the 10 min version?!

[@DdDten]

When is derringer going to come out for the Cummins?

[@trentoncastle]

Would running the intake through an air to air intercooler, increase power.? On a naturally aspirated engine.

[@Sjanzo]

No, unless you cool it cooler than ambient air, which will require power in itself. Air turns hot as you compress it, as the same amount of thermal energy is stored in a smaller volume. You dont want that, because it takes its toll on the engine internals. Which is why intercooling. More air in the cylinder to generate power, at a lower compression pressure.

[@ryanallen7044]

Eric is a smart kid

[@koryholt4807]

When is killing a duramax coming back?

[@thesetwohands6982]

Lol.. why wouldn't they have a specific set of parameters for CFM. if 1 CFM is measured at sea level at 50 degrees everything changes when its cooled or elevation is changed. so who ever came up with the acronym CFM should have stated that 1 CFM is calculated at x temp and x elevation and x humidity. then mass air flow could be crossed over to CFM correct?

[@seanb250]

I could only stand listening to the first 12 minutes before turning off. We use CFM to determine area efficiency and to target the cfm demand of each cylinder, this cfm demand constantly changes during the stroke as piston speeds change, we need sufficient cfm at any given point to control the pressure differential which dictates the airspeeds within the port, density measurements can’t do that. Obviously the more density in the charge the more power can be made, nobody argues this but to say that CFM is not a usable measurement when developing cylinder head ports just makes you look like a fool to the cylinder head development industry.

[@Garth2011]

You're kidding, those guys believe CFM is that simple? The truth is, natural aspirated engines, CFM is a constant if elevation and temperature are a constant but we all know that elevation and temperature is a variable so CFM changes if one or both temp/elevation changes. May as well throw in humidity too as that will change CFM rates too, I believe. Then put a turbo or super charger into the factor and things really change with CFM even though the "CFM" rating of a carb or an induction pipe is "X" cfm. No, it depends on a few other things as noted above so CFM is going to vary even though the induction hole is fixed or the carb plate is fixed...I think that is about how that works. This reminds me of the older days of Roger Penske at the races. He would chill the fuel cans because cold gas shrinks and he could get more gallons into a 20 gallon gas tank vs. the other guys. Of course NASCAR or who ever said no more doing that.

[@EngiTrek]

Why don’t cars use the oxidizer rich staged combustion cycle found in rockets? Seems like the automotive industry is about 50 years late on that one.

[@molak34]

???????????????????????????????

[@lamarzimmermanmennonitefar5269]

Cost?

[@olioxx]

nox

[@40calDeathPunch]

Knowledge has proven to be powerful. Amateurs prove what they don't know. Monkey see Monkey do.