Original judo DID NOT have Ne Waza

[@Chadi]

In short, in the past competition rules were very few so things like standing locks and strangleholds were normal, with the evolution of the rules katame waza became permissible only on the ground because it is far more controlled and safer. And because of this we now associate ground work with katame waza and stand up with throwing but that shouldn’t always be the case, but Kodokan’s techniques are still split into Nage waza and katame waza.

[@vids595]

Sweeps (gyaku) are not throwing techniques, they are gyaku.

[@vids595]

This is because of the definition of "throw".

[@Chadi]

@@vids595 yes I said turn overs, Kaeshi waza

[@vids595]

@@Chadi 0:53 Let me ask you something, can we do throwing techniques on the ground? Yes you can. Now, we may call them turn overs . . . but the principles are still being applied" 7:19 "Now there is throwing on the ground . . ." I know it is pedantic but "turn overs" or sweeps/gyaku are not throws even if many of the principles are the same.

[@vids595]

@@Chadi Great video and interesting. I know I'm making pedantic distinctions here but it is an academic topic after-all. I hope you dont find it annoying.

[@CecilRyuTaekwondo]

Having played Taekwondo and Judo, I can say that I fully understand how sports can cloud your training 😅.

[@jackfisher1921]

Kano also wrote about his concern that when he taught people ground techniques first, they wouldn't develop their throwing skills. This is why he gave throwing techniques first priority. I think BJJ and it's popularity over Judo is a very good example of this. Just look at how crappy the average BJJ throwing skills are. They do not understand the difference between a takedown and a real throw. Kano wanted Judo to be taught as Physical Education. He wanted every person in Japan to be able to defend themselves. He talked about how the training drills that involved punching developed bodies similar to gymnastics. He understood the value of being healthy and strong. He understood the values one gained from training in Martial Arts could have a positive impact on society. Unfortunately he died just before WWII. Something it is believed he wanted to avoid. After that, the Kodokan was transformed into a military training facility. The Japanese Government then stole his concept that everyone could be trained into Martial Arts and changed it into: Come join the army and everyone can become a Samurai. Which I'm sure had an impact upon how Judo was practiced and taught.

[@andreilukyanov4286]

Read “the Memoirs of Kano Jigoro”, he literally mentions of how they studied groundwork to be able to resist jujutsu people on the ground.

[@tn1881]

The martial art of grappling, which is the prototype for newaza, was a technique used by samurai to take away the enemy's physical freedom and stab him with a wakizashi. Some Jujutsu schools, Tenjin Shinyo-ryu Jujutsu and Kito-ryu Jujutsu, were good at ground techniques, and Kodokan was forced to struggle. In the world of judo, it was the so-called technical college judo that developed ground techniques.

[@Shadowrulzalways]

You mean Kosen Judo. Understand, ne-waza was added to Kodokan Judo after the loss. Kano adopted the ne-waza to fix Judo. Kosen Judo is just a rule set of Judo that focuses on ne-waza.

[@Shadowrulzalways]

Kano was very much into self-defense and unarmed combat with Judo rather than sport. Even though he made it safe for competition, he still wanted his martial art to be effective for both unarmed combat and self-defense, which he did admit in his notes that, that was what he was primarily focusing on. Ne-Waza is effective in a 1v1 situation. But in a self-defense situation, throws are more effective. Especially on concrete or hard surfaces. And there are countless videos of people using Judo in actual self-defense situations. And there’s no doubt in anyone’s mind that Judo is one of the most effective martial arts for self-defense. Throws, takedowns, sweeps, all effective in self-defense. This is why the military and police practice Judo so much because it actually works in the situations. Not to mention with police officers Judo works very effectively, in them getting a suspect taken down if he becomes combative or resistant. This is also why Judo is heavily practiced more in Japanese police departments. Because even though they practice mainly Taiho Jutsu, Judo is the base of the practice.

[@fatehsinghbedi9042]

Man the more I see your channel the more I realise how good old school judo is , I mean I used kani basami in am mma setting once ,it worked really well , its a pity no one teaches proper judo in my country

[@bobkk-ev5ls]

It's in khusti moves as well, it's a very "weird" move like in kohlapure school of khusti moves and holds, very effective bit look strange.

[@塩ラーメン-j1y]

日本でも、武術としての柔道はありません。

[@MMALAB]

Original judo didn't have any ne waza. Mataemon Tanabe and his students defeated many Kodokan judo members in their infamous challenges. Mataemon was a Fusen Ryu Jujutsu Master. A teacher of mine wanted to learn this particular jujutsu ryu because of the ne-waza and went to Japan and was accepted to Fusen Ryu. He was surprised that there was no ne-waza in Fusen Ryu! So all the work and genius goes to Mataemon Tanabe, he modified the techniques to work on the ground, and through extensive randori, all these ground techniques we do in judo and bjj have their origins in his personal style. When allowed by rules when practicing "live", the human body starts naturally to wrestle and grapple on the ground, so it is a natural thing, reoccurring when allowed by the circumstances. Put two toddlers in judogis and tell them to try to throw each other, after 1 minute they grapple on the ground flawlessly...

[@ayam1maya]

BJJ mythology. When he went to Japan and saw that Fusen Ryu had no focus on ground-fighting, he was supposed to realize this origin story was made up and that the samurai who trained not to win in competition but to kill each other did not err. They knew focusing on ground-fighting was stupid because it would get you killed.

[@leo523]

you said something about one jujiutsu school, not about Judo.

[@amznamzn]

That back take at 5:20 was slick!! Old school!

[@JohnDoe-kh3hy]

I need to learn french. There are many good scholars on Judo and other subjects

[@bobkk-ev5ls]

Learn Japanese

[@JohnDoe-kh3hy]

@@bobkk-ev5ls I think french could be a lot easier for a native spanish speaker as I

[@bobkk-ev5ls]

@JohnDoe-kh3hy ic. More knowledge in japanese on judo subject

[@KingOfSwords720]

​@@bobkk-ev5ls 😂 learn French so you can study Judo? I'm glad Judo isn't taught everywhere.

[@felipechaves6100]

Neru also simply means “to lay down”, which is the meaning it implies in Newaza. You can say “Nete” in Japanese to ask someone to lay down.

[@hooverbaglegs]

Interesting video - it also illustrates how far the standard for ippon has been eroded since the 80s - Yamashita's throw at the beginning of the video did not score ippon....but today.....?

[@pichetkullavanijaya6908]

Chadi, I respect you for your honesty and truthfulness. Most importantly, you are not full of yourself or "full of Bologna". Refreshing. ممنون چادی Merci Chadi

[@nnickattack9363]

Hello Chadi, I read some books about Kano and Judo. And they talked about the Kano's preference of the throws. But he worked with his students to give a place for the controls in his martial art. Otherwise Kano did not forget atemis. but today,with the domination of the sport, judokas lose them.

[@Noone-rt6pw]

You generally always have good videos.

[@twistereddie]

What’s the Japanese word for guard pulling?

[@Chadi]

Hikikomi. Big fan.

[@stevestanley5183]

Thanks for sharing. Great insight.

[@patrickschreiber5758]

One of your greatest videos 👍

[@jamessimpson6487]

good stuff m8. i knew these techniques from Japanese jiujitsu. they should bring them back

I love Judo

[@vids595]

I've never thought of katame-waza as throws only, I think of nage-waza as throws.

[@Chadi]

Katame waza are controlling techniques, nage waza is throwing

[@vids595]

@@Chadi I was responding to this 2:23 "This idea that now we separate grappling techniques or controlling techniques solely to the ground and throwing techniques only to the stand up . . ." And 3:40 "Stand up which we only associate with throwing" I always thought katame waza were grappling techniques, whether done standing or on the ground. I was never under the impression that katame waza were only on the ground or that stand up was only associated with throwing. I do disagree that nagewaza can be done when both people are on the ground.

[@bripowered]

Thank you Chadi.

[@Chadi]

Any time

[@skinder752]

Je me suis abonné ce matin et là nouvelle video haha

[@Chadi]

Bienvenue 🙇🏻‍♂️

[@yohannschroo5644]

Chadi comprends le français donc ? Je l'ignorais mais cool alors 😂

[@yohannschroo5644]

Merci Chadi pour le français 🥰

[@Diego-hm1wd]

@@yohannschroo5644 Il me semble qu'il est français et/ou qu'il vit en france

[@yohannschroo5644]

@@Diego-hm1wd Tu parle bien de Chadi ?

[@brankovidovic4771]

So jiu jitsu is inefective but Gracie familiy invented and made mainstream UFC after Royce won it? With no time limit and weight categories. I would like to see marshal art that effectivly fights and neutrelises multiple oponents attacking in the same time with no time limits and including kicking on the ground. If there were one we would be watching MOATSTUFC (multiple oponents attacking at the same time ultimate fighting championship). No throws no kicks no self defence no grapling no aikido can make it work in realistic situation in 90 % of that kind of situation. Just run or carry uzi maschine gun.

[@ottonilssen1533]

Katame no kata from 1885 is pure ground i.e. ne-waza. Also, hard to see how osaekomi waza can be performed standing. Except from that I agree with most of the video...

[@Chadi]

I specifically said osaekomi is the exception

[@patrickschreiber5758]

Not even this..a body drop can be seen as a "standing kesa gatame", Ko soto gake reminds of tate shiho gatame, te guruma reminds of Yoko shiho gatame. If you stop seeing Osae komi waza as something static (what it really isn't, even on the ground you have to move when uke starts freeing) than you might see that osae komi Waza has its "cousins" in the throws.

[@felipechaves6100]

I understand not liking but scooting in a judo setting, and while I’m okay with a rule that doesn’t allow for guard pulling in the first 2 minutes or so, I’m fine with guard pulling in general in jiu jitsu, because while I love to see good throws and take downs, for jiu jitsu the fight really begins to interest me when someone is trying to pass the guard / submit, and someone is trying to defend / sweep / submit. That is where all the substance is in BJJ and I’d rather watch someone pull guard to get there than watch 8 minutes of people wrestling without barely shooting takedowns… butt scooting does look lame though, gotta give you that, regular guard pull looks better, but if the opponent doesn’t want to engage, what you gonna do? Stand up again?!

[@vids595]

I disagree, I like to watch the grip fighting and standing grappling.

[@ricardokerscher]

shido for both

[@yohannschroo5644]

Good video once more by Chadi and interesting. But maybe i have don't understand but the absence of Newaza was in Jujitsu Kano no ? Because before Jujitsu Kano become judo if i remember, this is named : "Kano Ryu Jujutsu" This original judo without Newaza maybe, it is this old form traditionnal japanese jujutsu Kano Ryu, the first form of judo without judo title. And then it is named judo, Newaza was included becuse i don't see how in randori we can doing throwing but any ground fighting, for me it is impossible. Or you strangle your opponent in stand-up but you must dominate him with standing only, and finally this is limited in my opinion. Except the fact once i have strangle a bad guy with strangulation technique in self defense one day, but... 🤨

[@ValleyDragon]

Chadi is saying Newaza existed in early Judo, but it was not called that because many of the techniques could be done or started from standing. Newaza can be looked at as a strategy instead of a set of techniques.

[@yohannschroo5644]

@@ValleyDragon Okay, now with your explanations it is more understanding. Thanks.

[@yakovdavidovich7943]

Here's the thing, @Chadi -- I *agree* with you that guard pulling is tactically dumb, makes no sense in a fight with strkes, isn't masculine, etc. But you can't go around arguing against it by using false statements. You said several times that pulling guard gives the other player too much control, and there's abundant proof that this is not the case, except in the case of adding strikes. And there should be just as much fussing about stupid Judo people who pancake in a flat turtle hoping the ref stands them up. That's actually *much worse* tactically than pulling guard, so a Judo fan really can't afford to go talking out of both sides of the mouth on this stuff. The current balance in BJJ shows that it's harder to pass the guard than it is to use the guard to gain control and submit. There are lots of reasons for this, many of which have to do with the guard player's access to the leglock game in transition. If the guard pulling player yields so much control to the top player by doing it, I'd love to know why so many good grapplers fail to use that control to any advantage, and seem to stalemate in the passing phase, and often enough lose. By all means, criticizee guard pulling for the various good reasons, but don't pretend that there's some implicit control imbalance that arises due to it.

[@boyzen45]

Kano Jiujitsu is the best...

[@JohnDoe-kh3hy]

Hanconck and Higashi

[@user-xo4om8qv6m]

Chadi Really enjoying your channel I like how you cover all aspects of judo ,I have a question how is Olympic judo different from Kodokan judo

[@Chadi]

Today not so much

[@veteransowhat5669]

Chadi, a way to think of butt scooting in self defense is if the person is disabled because of combat or the interaction. This would be because also they don't want to take a big slam or take down. Also from the sitting position you can think the tactics are inversions and leg entanglements the practicer believes there ability to enter and invert causing dis stabilization or leg submition is superior to facing the person standing. More over the tactic is if the person is unable to stand the techniques have to be adapted and the will to fight and live must still be evedent. All the techniques or many of the techniques applied while standing can be applied while sitting if adapted. Wrestle ups, reversels, sweeps, irmani rolls, barambollos sikokus all are some techniques that can be applied. In BJJ it is a sratagie competivly because so some high level wrestler can't dominate everybody. Think of that type of domination from the oldest sport in the world wrestling. This is a reason why in judo after 2008 they took out all take downs thus taking out the advanges of the wrestlers, Mongolian wreslers and the advantages the Russians had to counter throws. They then emerged IBJJF which became a sport all to its own. Gravity is a force, sometimes it can be disperse if there is to much motion if not the Gravity can complement position.

[@jenpachi2408]

A sweep in jiu jitsu/judo is just a grounded throw

[@vids595]

bullshit, "throw" means something or it doesn't.

[@Chadi]

Sumi/hikikomi Gaeshi on the ground is still called sumi /hikikomi gaeshi but due to the absence of impact it’s a turn over, but all principles still apply

[@JohnJohnson-pq4qz]

Yes and no. "Sweeps" in BJJ have sub categories that sometimes have a relationship to standing techniques often not. Originally in BJJ a formal "sweep' had to be an action done with the hands and legs together. Many of these were in open guard and were push /pull motions that have little resemblance to standing throws (such as the 'tri-pod' or 'tomahawk, the 'lumberjack' or back/ankle sweep etc). The classics "scissor sweep", "hip bump"...no....'elevator"..yes. The open guard exceptions would be the over head "sweeps" like the 'balloon" that are clearly ground versions of Tomo-nage. But "taking the back" is considered by most a separate category and many of those are very similar to wrestling/Greco Roman 'slide bys" and "duck unders" but not Judo throws. "wrestling up" is basically doing leg tackles from the ground, so its much closer to wrestling techniques especially after judo removed the leg grabs. Leg entangle ments come from leg lock entries...no Judo there for a long time and the new generation of sweeps from "x guard" dont look much like throws, except maybe at the most old days rudimentary level with a Kani-basami type scissoring reap.

[@amznamzn]

But what if you sit down and then stand up, even half way and then sit down again(...) and execute a takedown or a sweep. That's what Gordon Ryan does.

[@theepeopleswarrior]

Wasn’t judo a term used outside of kodokan judo?

[@A9Muscle]

Chadi can i please get a reply from you?

[@Chadi]

Sure

[@A9Muscle]

@@Chadi I'm a 13 year old judoka and I wanted to know how should I condition my body I think of doing a workout plan,do it for 2 days then quit..what should I do ?

[@Chadi]

Twice a week conditioning training is enough, but at your age you should be doing uchi Komi/nagekomi/randori at least 4 days a week

[@A9Muscle]

@@Chadi I do uchikomi, nagekomi, randori 5 days a week and what exercises should I do in conditioning,also thanks for your reply

[@Ezekiel-rv3pe]

Regardless, the Brazilians invented nothing lol

[@tammykennedy4165]

Probably why judo guys are so bad at it