LETHAL old Jujutsu techniques banned from original Judo

[@Chadi]

The book “The Origins & History of Judo” is now available on Amazon worldwide in English, French, and Japanese, not just the links below. You can search for it in the Amazon of your own country. Amazon EU: amzn.eu/d/bfEkJmQ Amazon US: a.co/d/dNyMInt Amazon Asia: amzn.asia/d/aRU8ZXn French version: amzn.eu/d/8SN3DNs Thank you all.

[@alphadogg5682]

IBJJF sucks ever since they put in the "no decapitation" rules.

[@sensei9295]

You are only saying that because you've never been decapitated!

[@lorencharnley9262]

🤪

[@alphadogg5682]

@@sensei9295 Actually I did get decapitated in class once. And I still rolled the next round!

[@MansMan42069]

@@alphadogg5682 I think it was your head that did the rolling X3

[@alphadogg5682]

@@MansMan42069 It's actually a huge benefit. Now I never worry about getting choked.

[@SilverforceX]

Many of these modern martial arts come from older forms that were designed and used to KILL in warfare. Ofc, you can't do that in sport, but one has to realize where they came from times were different.

[@joebarbosa1942]

STREET fights with survival mode. It's a jungle book out to there

[@takenbythewindNdrivenbythesea]

I totally agreed

[@jassimarsingh6505]

Agreed

[@aidenlancesantos536]

Yep agree

[@miya6008]

@@joebarbosa1942 dude. Stop romanticizing street fights, it’s annoying

[@mattwhisnant5926]

I trained BJJ for1.5 years. The ground fighting was very effective, and I was never injured. I trained Judo for 6 months and found it hard not to get injured. Judo is downright scary. When you get thrown hard, you feel like you just got hit by the planet… which you did.

[@vovochen]

Mustve been different Trainers.

[@kongbanana8947]

Trainers are supposed to have some restraint in Judo/combat sports to prevent injuring their opponent/teammate. In tournaments you'll find malicious people that slam you harder than necessary. Unfortunate experience you had.

[@jdvillav]

That is because the person that was executing the technique did not untie you after the nage (throwing) I am an Aikido Yoshinkan practitioner and I experienced the same with a judoka pattner... Please be kind.

[@4thbranch834]

I feel like learning to be thrown and learning to fall properly need to be learned when we are young or we have this experience of painful and scary landings more, although it could be bad partners i belive its more often that people dont get enough training on how to fall properly before they start getting thrown, its like giving a steak to a baby who doesnt have any teeth and does not have experience with forks and knives... It is a dangerous mess.

[@vovochen]

My group really, really learned how to be thrown for weeks before we started. Our Trainer trained Police, too; he knew what he did.@@4thbranch834

[@connorperrett9559]

Whew, that kendo sweep was fantastic.

[@Chadi]

Indeed

[@274pacific]

followed by a sword chop to the head, lol. so brutal.

[@andreaaiazzi4501]

True. Also totally illegal

[@gatocles99]

@@andreaaiazzi4501 Not illegal. There are certain Kendo tournaments, namely the ones involving the police and the Imperial guards, where sweeps, shoves, and even groin strikes are perfectly legal. And when it is the police versus the Imperial guards... things get very lively. :) Just find the video Kendo Amazing Shiai - 1st Shiai : Imperial Guard vs Kagawa Police You will see a nice shove followed by a stab to the testicles. :)

[@andreaaiazzi4501]

​@@gatocles99 yes I remember that one. The action in this video looked over the top even for police standards. cmon a trip and gyaku-do motion on the men? FATALITY

[@marks501]

Judoka all my life. Got jumped in high school by three guys as only a yellow belt. Taiotoshi onto frozen ground, ouchi gari to another into kasa gatame. Heard and felt his spine cracking.. the third ran and so did I. I was afraid I hurt them bad. Looked back a min later they were just getting up. Felt great, dad was proud!

[@talesfromthetoiletseat8295]

Another good one Chadi! You should write a book on this stuff. A massive coffee table one. I’d buy it

[@Chadi]

In the process

[@ursamajor5107]

@@Chadi Finally, and I can't wait to see the long-overdue finished product 👍

[@tay740]

Also very interested. I've always found the old arts very interesting. Considering for thousands of years the world was ruled by the sword. Now days it's all play and sport. It would be a shame for the true war fighting and survival/defensive techniques to be lost completely with time.

[@Alex-ej3by]

@@Chadi SIgn me up for a pre-order buddy love your work!

[@mogatdula]

I would love to read it when is done

[@patrickk1044]

Most those movements and strikes are still taught to US Marines and Soldiers also Philippines system of Kali. 👍👍

[@Tacticalteabag]

pekiti tirsia in the house? :)

[@Marco-fi6gv]

👍

[@Ongyokage6389]

Yes!!! Great Video Chadi. Shinden Fudo Ryu is one of my favorite systems of study. Very strong Ryuha. As for Atemi-waza it is very reminiscent of weapons. As an instructor of old school Jujutsu Ive noticed that it is rare to find people who are interested in the old ways, especially in the USA. Thank you for sharing this. 🥋💪🏽

[@Chadi]

🙇🏻‍♂️

[@syntheticalnothing]

Man, I could not agree more, Shindenfudo ryu is so deep and has some very complicated waza, but once you get it correct (... as correct as humanly possible) it feels so good.

[@jeremyarroyo360]

Does this school teach the original lethal techniques? If so were do i find a school?

[@IvanLabrie]

@@jeremyarroyo360 Bujinkan schools teach it to advanced students.

[@dbuck1964]

@@IvanLabriehaha ninja junk 🥷

[@dabenzel45]

My uncle learned judo during Nam. 76 years old and still drops me without a sweat. Granted, he's 6'5"" and 250 lbs of ohrnery.

[@petergeramin7195]

Was he special forces or regular infantry

[@dabenzel45]

@@petergeramin7195 sniper. This guy can shoot the stem off a pear and blow it up before it hits the ground.

[@SI-ln6tc]

I've seen an old guy flip a man half his age in a argument. It was in some Japanese news clip.

[@fhmstudios3884]

Old judoka are tough and grumpy. Don't mess with them.

[@montucombat82]

Wow that’s exactly my height and weight I am a Japanese jujutsu student as we speak

[@williamlong8859]

In the Ketsugo Jujitsu (Har-Bro Dojo) of my youth, punches and kicks were taught and used as a move to loosen up an opponent and as a finisher. Kicks and strikes were not counted as "technique" to finish the engagement, though part of your actions to implement technique, until you were a brown belt.

[@ShinM.]

You mean your dojo from the 90s taught by white guys in colorful gis?

[@williamlong8859]

@@ShinM. 70's and 80's, no colorful gis.

[@ShinM.]

@@williamlong8859 people were putting their white gis into buckets with dye packets since the white gis were purchasable.

[@williamlong8859]

@@ShinM. Glad I missed out on that nonsense

[@mizukarate]

One thing everyone should learn is breakfalling/rolls. I am primary a Karate guy but my teacher was a former Judo student. So I did well in my short stint in Aikido and in the streets(fights and accidents) with these skills. In my opinion it would be wise for everyone to study Judo/Jujitsu/Aikido/Karate for these valuable skills.

[@TheMatrixofMeaning]

This is pro wrestling fundamentals which is itself based on catch wrestling and Japanese jiu-jitsu, along with boxing, Judo, freestyle wrestling, and bjj. Anyone who learns any of these arts is just picking up a piece of the traditional martial art that inspired all others around the world.

[@mizukarate]

@@TheMatrixofMeaning well put my friend

[@4thbranch834]

Learning to fall properly is the best way to learn how to get back up as well.

[@MrKahunadog]

Thank you Chadi for all your efforts in researching and producing quality Judo work and discussions. Your channel has done a great service to the perpetuation of Judo. It always amazes me how people underestimate Judos martial ability. Most don't understand throwing someone on their back is not a far leap from intentionaly throwing them on their head or limb with force or to pull the throw at the last there by creating torque between the object being thrown and the one doing it. Once thrown it doesn't mean one looses control and releases grips.

[@Chadi]

Thank you very much

[@user-bk6vq3xm1t]

Ppl dont have the attention span to know anything fully nowadays

[@Jeffro5564]

@@user-bk6vq3xm1t so true they look at KZbin and try to do it in class and they have no idea that they hurt other people

[@supersonique001]

Excellent explanation and education for the newer generations of judoka who have no clue of the original sources of judo. Many decades ago as young teenager we were taught a Kawaishi style in Canada which eventually morphed into a more docile Kodokan style to eliminate some dangerous techniques for young judokas who had not yet attained green belt level/maturity . Well done.

[@gilesembleton5037]

I studied classical ju-jitsu in Cape Town SA. My Instructor used the judo to teach us the basic technique and then would teach us the ju-jitsu or street version of the throw. So for example for katagurma the ju-jitsu version was to throw uke forwards in the direction one was facing but at the same time dropping to one knee so one could effectively break ukes back across the knee. Obviously this had to be practiced very carefully throwing uke carefully in front of the knee for practice. My instructor always said that judo was the competition version of ju-jitsu where one could practice randori at full force while the original ju-jitsu techniques that the judo came from had a far more dangerous element and thus had to be practiced under more controlled conditions. As a further example in ostogari the older ju-jitsu version used an armlock to break ukes balance and then the reap.

[@Muschelschubs3r]

Kata guruma was introduced by Kano Jigoro from European wrestling. There is no ju jutsu version.

[@deviljon]

​@Muschelschubs3r he just showed the Japanese version in this video. Those were Koryu uniforms which means traditional Jiu-jitsu, ie predating Judo.

[@stevefowler2112]

These were the types of Judo moves we were trained in during Close Combat Instructor Training I received when I was in The Corps on Okinawa in the early 70's. As the gentleman here says they were removed from competitive Judo but they are perfect for real world martial combat training. I earned a Brown belt in Okinawan Judo while on Okinawa and had boxed Golden Gloves in H.S., with a 12 - 4 record (a U.S. Recon Marine vet. and former Close Combat Instructor).

[@shinjaokinawa5122]

Was Your Sensei, Sensei Fukushima who taught at Camp Kuei?

[@ryanhan3641]

That’s awesome, I would love to learn that style of judo. Thank you for your service.

[@landoncube769]

That's the arm break from everybody hates Chris on his brother

[@jg7923]

Also, Spine Locks and Severe Neck Cranks are very dangerous in Judo and Jiu Jitsu.

[@notme3686]

Techniques that are forbidden in the gym are what kills you in the street

[@SorryImLate-fv1xf]

@@notme3686 or anywhere

[@vanders1200]

Yeh but they are fun! Unless you are the uke.. then not so much😅

[@jamesstepp1925]

We have learned so much from Japanese culture. I sincerely hope these techniques are never lost to time. I come from a multi generation military family, so while the sport versions of these martial arts are a good foundation I would want my children trained in the truly martial techniques as well to maximize their survival chances and effectiveness.

[@kamilszadkowski8864]

You mean in terms of martial arts? Most techniques of Judo were known in Europe/Western World. Unfortunately, we lost and forgot many of them during the industrial era. However, some of the martial arts heritage survived in wrestling.

[@MrBOB39]

This is why Original and Full Old school JUDO is so Important... Not to glamorize a sport... to instead in its understanding and then as Needed Applying og Judo to Protect and Save oneself on the Street.. I am Lucky..in that I started learning Judo in the 60's and from someone who was far less caring about competing but instead Protecting oneself...Thus I Learned many of these hitting/striking technics that has been abandoned my Judo competition ( and Very Strongly told I could Not use those methods when in competition ) In many ways... it is Sad that todays Judo ( as effective as it still is ) is so watered down

[@brandonshukuri6487]

Unfortunately is very difficult to find a good master of strong koryu bujutsu outside of Japan. Most of this stuff taught in Japan is not known outside of Japan. Americans don't typically have the dedication for a hard war art. Getting punched in the face and being thrown on your skull on hardwood floors just doesn't go over too well here in the states. Something as simple as kuzushi is poorly understood outside of Japan, but without a good understanding of it your techniques will be worthless in battle.

[@brandonshukuri6487]

@@MrBOB39 I think what you're referring to is Judo kata. From what I have read it appears to have been removed from Judo (at least in 🇺🇸) along with the lost curriculum of shoulder techniques.

[@sirseigan]

Many (though far from all) of the old bujutsu schools are still activeivly trained, it just need some research 🙂

[@bignedau]

I really enjoyed that. I'm an ex student of Kodokan judo. Jigoro Kano's way.

[@ScottGarrettDrums]

The Judo I know was learned in the early '90s and taught as real-world combat. After Seonagi, for example, you retain the arm and then deliver kicks to the ribs, shoulder, and / or head before dropping into an arm bar if still needed. I say dropping into it because there's no option for tapping, your arm is broken and likely a rib or two from the kicks. Very much a different perspective to sporting arts. Which is also why people who train like this generally don't walk around looking for fights. Rather, we seek to avoid them.

[@spiritualanarchist8162]

I learned Judo in the end 70thies, early 80thies. In a sparring match, we always had to go on after the throw. So either in a chokehold , etc, or demonstrate a kick or punch , before you won the match.

[@DenisAleksandrovLV]

Sport destroys any martial art. When the most effective techniques are prohibited and the most spectacular ones are left in their place, athletes will only practice them, everything else will be forgotten as unnecessary. Taekwondo is a good example of this degradation.

[@bla7091]

@@DenisAleksandrovLV Muay Thai is a competitive sport too, but it retained very much of its original idea!

[@DenisAleksandrovLV]

@@bla7091, I've heard something like that many times. Look at Kyokushin karate: made to be rough martial art, it's competitive variant excludes grappling and even punches to the head. Then, as it always happen, instructors began to train only technics allowed in competition. And look what kyokushin has become nowadays: it looks like a fight between two drunks, not martial art. I'm sure Myai Thai went the same way.

[@bla7091]

@@DenisAleksandrovLV hmm well it currently allows elbows, knees, punches and kicks to all parts of the body. Grapplping and sweeps too, so it looks very well rounded. You could say it’s almost a premise to fight in MMA. Muay Thai is literally designed for unarmed warfare

[@1855dhanda]

I had an Uncle of mine that passed away before I was born, his name was Mitsuho Kimura. He was a 9th Dan. One of my other uncles who trained with him when he was young told me he would teach ankle locks, knee locks, knee bars, and various other leg locks. He would also teach many different types of chokes and he would also teach atemi waza. I heard a story that he once got challenged by a Karate fighter and when he could no longer avoid the karate fighter, he fought him. My late uncle beat the karate fighter when he caught a front kick (mae geri), then swept the karate fight so hard he fell and hit his head on the tatami mat and was KO’d. He was a peaceful man but I guess sometimes a fight is unavoidable. He did Judo till the day he died. I wish he didn’t die before I was born. He sounded like an amazing man. All I hear is stories of how great he was. I wish I could have trained under him. 😔

[@Jewel_Screaming_Chango8387]

Holy shit, your uncle is a bad ass I’ve studied him before the submission kimura in one of my arts ( Bjj ) was named after him when he defeated the creator of Gracie Bjj helio Gracie back in the 50s. In the anime baki the strongest fighter in there yujiro his dad yushiro is based off your uncle

[@hugodewar5335]

@@Jewel_Screaming_Chango8387 You're thinking of Masahiko Kimura

[@lunam7249]

Contact the "kodokan Tokyo world headquarters" they keep information on the black belt and higher levels masters!!! As a 9th Dan means he was a very important part of the world judo kodokan and must have traveled a lot teaching judo worldwide, including him writing or teaching new moves or styles....9th Dan is very very high, only a few people in history!!!! And he had to be old, cuz it's like rule like 10 years as 8th Dan , 8 years as 7th Dan etc!!!!and important move is named a "kimura"...it must have been named after him!!

[@1855dhanda]

@@lunam7249 The Kimura armlock was named after a different Kimura. Kimura is actually a common Japanese name. Thank you for replying though.

[@lunam7249]

@@1855dhanda ok. I wasn't sure..

[@bushi1147]

Most arm throws are designed to break or dislocate that part of the body so the opponent can not use/hold his weapon anymore from my prospective.

[@JustMeNoOther]

You are right, and that is the reason that people never will find a Dojo where ancient techniques can be teached. With the most simple things that are teached nowadays we have the horrendous and patetic shows like MMA, imagine if these people were trained for war... And the public in general.

[@IRONxMONKEY]

@@JustMeNoOther I know AIkido gets a bad rep, but it's the same for that, a lot of the hombu schools are more zen oriented, but there's a few Pre WW2 schools like (Nihon Goshin, Daito-Ryu, etc) where the techniques are absolutely brutal. You really have to be a good uke when you study them otherwise your arm would break!

[@JoriMikke78]

@@JustMeNoOther What the fuck are you talking about - patetic shows like MMA??? Just that because something is "ancient" (judo isn't that by any means anyway) does NOT make it good. MMA is the best thing that has EVER happened to martial arts, and that is a fact.

[@asharedo]

@@JoriMikke78 Yeah the fact that hundreds of thousands of people are testing the techniques and modifying them daily, and there is a much greater consensus of what works and what doesn't, MMA has been and will be able to evolve very quickly to become more and more effective. But I think if modern MMA allowed the use of wrist locks, gloveless fighting, and took place using normal clothing on harder surfaces, I'd expect Judo would likely be the primary martial art that people needed to know before moving on to learn other styles. (unlike today where wrestling, bjj, and boxing are the staple foundations). But understandably at least with respect to surfaces and wrist locks, there are safety measures in place to minimise injuries. Gloveless fighting is as I understand it more bloody, but of less risk regarding brain injury, but because of the bloodiness and it's image of brutality, it will likely not become mainstream any time soon. Wrist locks and small joint manipulation just leads to too many injuries in a competitive setting unfortunately it would seem., especially small joint manipulation like the fingers.

[@dulguuntsg8389]

@@JoriMikke78 yeah, MMA is be all and end all. everything else is fake or ineffective... what an egocentric view of the world...

[@tehf00n]

One of the first judo moves I learned was sode tsurikomi goshi. With it, I was taught how to do it safely to allow uke to land safely, then how to drop my knee and make sure the head smashed the concrete. With no arms, there is no breakfall. Deadly.

[@breeze529]

Great info. I've trained in Budo Taijitsu for 4 yrs. And it is so similar, mostly because it was used around the same time period and served the same purpose. Have to be very careful when you train before you work your way up to pressure testing it.

[@hantu7380]

Awesome. Where did you train?

[@migthulhu]

I had the honor of learning from Julio Toribio in his original Seibukan school in Monterey, CA, and the throws that included a joint lock ending in a nerve strike were exciting to learn but were also very painful to learn.

[@LWReaper76]

This is great information always keep learning. I have used one of these in a real fight and didn't really do it on purpose but more as a reaction and I will say it will keep them down also. I so far am comfortable in 4 material arts but would not call myself a fighter or an mma person. I am now retire Army but I still try to always learn new and more techniques and encourage all to do the same. The more you know the better you can protect yourself and loved ones stay safe out there Great Video.

[@MrBOB39]

Very well said

[@RenegadeRanga]

That kendo sweep was absolutely outstanding. Great video and historical techniques and context mate

[@storytime6263]

My Judo instructor told me a arm lock is just making the arm go the way it isn't meant to.

[@shadowfighter6445]

I like practicing the kata guruma on my dummy, thank you for sharing 😊.

[@Chadi]

🙇🏻‍♂️

[@kampar82]

I was taught a variant to the judo kata guruma where you make the landing of the uke "uncomfortable" by placing your knee in the landing area. Edit thought -> taught. Damn spelling.

[@APTV-s7r]

@@kampar82 Was your instructor Bane or something?

[@adamdamiri4823]

@@kampar82 sir, if i'm not mistaken uke is the term of the passive one right? What's the attacker one called, sir?

[@kampar82]

@@APTV-s7r Those were good days... Hokuto Ryu was the jujutsu style. I miss myself from 25 years ago.

[@NYTomiki]

FYI; The John Gage segments are Nihon Jujutsu, who I believe was a student of the founder of that style, Sato Shizuya, who was a student of ... Kenji Tomiki (sorry can't help myself)

[@Chadi]

Yes I'm aware he mentioned it in the film linked in the description

[@shinjaokinawa5122]

Always good to know the History and the Lineage.

[@MhUser]

problem with those 'deadly' techniques is that you cant practice them which results in situations we can watch on numerous 'bullshido' videos where killer ninja masters are ragdolled by subpar mma fighters

[@wigletron2846]

I trained judo awhile back and they used to teach us how to do sneaky strikes. It's dirty but it worked. Our favorite one was hitting an elbow to the side of the head/ear as you turn in for most hip throws.

[@jaketheasianguy3307]

What Kano did when he created Judo was both wonderful and terrible at the same time. It's wonderful because he saved Jujutsu from it's dying breath, created a martial art everyone could fight and train without holding back and stress testing all you want. What terrible is this birth alot of close minded individuals who think the techniques Kano removed from Judo should stay that way and forgotten because they're "too dangerous" for modern day

[@Chadi]

Elaborate more, i say yes to many techniques and no to others

[@yn5568]

I guess one additional thing to note is how classical jujutsu often incorporates atemi as a kuzushi more so than a finishing blow. It’s definitely present in other grappling/striking arts like Muay Thai or sumo as well

[@jaketheasianguy3307]

To be fair, back in the day there's only fighting in general. No such thing were called striking art or grappling art, they only seperated armed fighting and hand to hand fighting.

[@yn5568]

@@jaketheasianguy3307 kenpo (not the way Americans understand the term) was present during late edo period. Sumo was pretty common. I wouldn’t say striking wasn’t separated from jujutsu (hence the existence of the term jujutsu, rather than saying hand combat) but different from our understanding of striking today, where it’s focused on shaking the brain.

[@jaketheasianguy3307]

@@yn5568 true, back in the day learning how to box or any form of focused combat with your fist to knock the other guy out is a waste of time and suicidal. Grappling, few open hand strikes, low kicks are all used to support the useage of the sword or any other melee weapons

[@yn5568]

@@jaketheasianguy3307 I mean when people are openly carrying kenka kiseru, the striking definitely resembles hammer fists. Physiologically speaking, that better suits the human body too. I think the only exception is yagyu shinganryu, where the spear movement was incorporated into striking focused art back in early Edo period. Definitely an outlier, but pretty interesting what they were attempting back then

[@jaketheasianguy3307]

@@yn5568 i think it maybe inspired by karate. Old Japan and Ryukyu trade with each other alot so some martial art elements also got trade around as well, like the spear hand while there's also some jujutsu techniques exist in Karate

[@nelsonventura7374]

In fact there are two kata-guruma in old japanese Ju jutsu and Aiki jutsu,the one shown by the lady,on the other kata-guruma you guide your opponent to the ground with the back of his head always grabbing his arm.

[@Chadi]

It's still is more painful than a roll

[@jamesfrankiewicz5768]

Daitō-ryū calls the "other" kataguruma "Shumoku" (撞木; a bell-hammer of made of wood). It's all the way up in the Gokajō series of the Hiden Mokuroku, while the more conventional kataguruma is in the Nikajō series. The lady practitioner seems to have done something in-between the two.

[@markobrien690]

I read that the founder of Aikido developed the style to take the place of AkiJuJitsu because it was too brutal, and did so much damage. I advise people when focusing on street defense, to find out what pro fighters are not allowed to do. Everything banned is what works the best.

[@Turco949]

I was really into Judo as a teen and practiced quite a few years. One day after the class, I was helping my master with moving some stuff around the dojo and chatting about the history of Judo, he hesitantly mentioned the current competition based Judo was very watered down and more of a sport where during a training visit in Japan, he was actually taught "traditional" version which was used in actual battles or combats and just some of the moves he showed blew me away. Same as this video, the "throw" was actually almost like a finish where more often joints were broken or dislocated initially. Any throw that involves grabbing the neck of the opponent actually starts with a very sharp slap on the neck to disorient the opponent before actually wrapping the arm around the neck to initiate the throw, etc. There were a lot of strikes that made it look almost like a Shotokan Karate mixed with Judo.

[@tagg1080]

Awesome stuff! When I learned judo we learned a few “forbidden” techniques where uki would land in a position when they can’t fall safely. It was so we understood that we only do safe throws. I didn’t realize until I went to other schools that most places don’t teach that way. Very interesting stuff.

[@Chadi]

Judo is a lot safer than it used to be for sure

[@definitlynotbenlente7671]

my sensei tought me a few of these banned techniqeus as well as standing armbars

[@Chadi]

That's awesome

[@definitlynotbenlente7671]

@@Chadi but we where not alowed to use those thecniqeus or armbars during sparring and i understand why

[@zegarek840525]

more and more often I start to think that Aikido was left to preserve these banned techniques ... the problem is that now a person who could not fight will not learn Aikido, historically they could fight, now you would have to practice, for example, as I did in the past Aikido + sports MuayThai ... I also practiced the ground floor without using a kimono ... additionally, for a better combination of Aikido with sports MuayThai, I analyzed the available materials from Muay Chaiya ...

[@a3spirit]

On that "seoi nage" variation, I was taught that was aikido's inspiration for shiho nage (but made safer). The entry looks just like aikido shiho nage

[@Diego-hm1wd]

Looks more like ude kime nage, witch also has the same entry as shio nage!

[@feirabbitt]

Was thinking the same

[@Chadi]

Shihonage requires the twist of the wrist at the entry

[@MinhaFamiliaAQBJJ]

I feel like yall are cussing my mom out in Japanese

[@jamesfrankiewicz5768]

It's called "Ippon Katsugi" (一本担; "1-shape carry") in Daitō-ryū. In Aikidō, it's easy to pull off as a modification of sankyō.

[@bajuszpal172]

Yes Sir, that´s true, the JUDO was distilled from a hard-lined JIU JITSUu into Soft into a sport, based on controlled throughs and chokes or leverages. Best regards. Paul, 66, retired instructor of Karate.

[@sakissakis7992]

Another great video! Yes, all the old Jujutsu techniques had one purpose :To kill or to incapacitate. They cannot be tested in randori. I think (if I remember correctly) that Kano was planning to incorporate Atemi in randori, but at the end, he didn't make it happen. Atemi in Jujutsu, as Chadi has already mentioned, has nothing to do with boxing/kick boxing striking. It's purpose is to hit vulnerable points of human body either to make real damage or to create kuzushi. Thank you.

[@Chadi]

Thank you very much

[@hugog.cintra2573]

This was very enlightening. It helped realize some proper applications for Judo and open my mind to how it was meant to be used in the old days. Thank you, sir, for the time and effort that you've put in making such content.

[@tettsubushi]

Great work as usual!! Sounds like the objective of "Tettsu Bushi Jitsu"

[@Chadi]

Thank you

[@Praetorianguard2001]

Just discovered your channel through my Doshinkan Aikido Facebook feed...Great work describing the techniques...Arrigato!

[@stefanschleps8758]

Thank you Chadi. Excellent concise overview of those changes which led to sport Judo. Either throw, then strike. Or strike and then throw. Situations always guide our response. Any episode you produce that leans a little towards self-defense is greatly appreciated. Have you made a video about entering? Past the attack to the throw? (If you, or any of your viewers, have old mats they would like to donate. Please be so kind as to contact me. It is difficult to practice throws without them.) Peace.

[@Chadi]

Thank you

[@Kakos08Theos]

Fantastic stuff. Many of these techniques are taught in Bujinkan budo taijutsu

[@johnfranchina84]

In the jujutsu school I train in, we have joint lock throws - both bent and straight arm - from any of the standard or “forbidden” throws. Of course the tori must take care of uki and relax the joint lock and throw the uki is a safe manner. These techniques are limited to higher grades who initially learn and demonstrate one or two joint lock throws and the number increases as the grades and skill levels increase. The uki is always a higher grade and is in full knowledge of the joint lock-throw combination and practices with tori slowly initially and tori speeds up only when he/she can demonstrate control and safety for uki. Joint lock throws ultimately were/are a key foundation of jujutsu and should be practiced and not forgotten.

[@Chadi]

Is there frequent randori???

[@lunam7249]

as a over 15 year instructor I would reccomend to stop that....even slight 3 pound force on a joint can permenantly damage it!! 35 yo with Arthritis is no joke,, and painful....I suppose slow motion training by 2 certified black belts would still be dangerous, but important to teach others the theory...

[@johnfranchina84]

@@lunam7249 42 years here.. injuries are rare and joint lock throws “are” jujutsu take them away and you have, with all respect, judo. We dont use joint lock throws at speed or in true randori but we practice, teach and demonstrate them for higher grades.

[@johnfranchina84]

@@Chadi my apologies didn’t reply earlier. We do randori but without the joint locks so looks like judo. Joint lock throws are only done with the lock relaxed in order to avoid injuries but still practice and “feel” and understand the techniques. We also teach at an adequate level, anatomy, medical implications of strikes, joint locks etc.

[@lunam7249]

@@johnfranchina84 sound great....in my experience I have seen way to many injuries...lifelong arthritis....I will agree brown or black level ok.

[@beskeptic]

Excellent Chadi! Empty Mind's doc are sooo good!!

[@Chadi]

Indeed, thank you

[@QuebecSystema]

Chadi, this video makes me think of that awesome scene from Red Beard (Kurosawa) with Toshiro Mifune.

[@Chadi]

100%

[@fletchkeilman2205]

Oh man! Great film!!

[@KarmaFlight]

My coach says that fighting is fighting. We added some light striking to our regular Jiu Jitsu yesterday. It is a wake up call for sure! Remember our roots.

[@gushlergushler]

The old seoi nage can also be trained with a bend elbow reducing the risk and making it a trainable throw. Falling is still dangerous if your partner doesn't know what is coming but I used to train that throw a lot when my training partners were good enough to take the fall. With the rotated elbow however I would agree with your assessment. I love your assessment of these things, it is great to see wide views on any topic, martial arts specifically.

[@abcdef-kx2qt]

use a throw dummy wearing judo jacket = its always ready !!!

[@Alexander-Kurtz]

Fascinating, these are similar to the techniques we learn in Muay Boran (old school Muay Thai boxing).

[@drob492214]

Love the content, very interesting, well researched and delightfully presented. Thank you! This reminded me of one of my favorite fictional characters, John Rain, from the Barry Eisler novels, who utilizes Judo in a combative way, making a point of researching techniques such as the ones you show here!

[@denisschneider5941]

This brings me back many memories, I was a brown belt when I 16 out of NY in 1998, I was taught all the techniques in this video while training.

[@IJDaKaR]

Would it be Miyama Ryu Jujutsu?

[@Old299dfk]

Who knew that an art specifically designed to fuck people up could be so dangerous and deadly -surprised face

[@Hapkido82AUS]

That first throw with the elbow facing up is common in hapkido. A slightly different version places their arm pit on your shoulder(their elbow is on your chest by this stage), which is a little kinder...

[@airon3348]

In my old aikido dojo we applied all the techniques shown in the video (very jujutsu-esque maybe). Especially in combination with a *lot* of atemi waza, really hard atemi sometimes. This Ippon seoi nage judo technique was executed (in aikido) as a variant of shiho nage _in particular_ against tanto. We trained really hard, I remember it well because the projection was brutal, full of fright. Nobody couldn't hold onto the gi of nage for safety in such a position and you *really* needed coordination (to receibe) and technique to control your fall.... The good old days, when ukemi was paramount, technique powerful... Before dear aikido turned into the rubbish laughing stock that is now.

[@donl3634]

Who teaches the *good* type of Aikido you're discussing?

[@ivoiliev3957]

In my experience Aikido should not be much different from what is shown here in this video but unfortunately very few places practice it that way. Sadly most aikido sensei have misunderstood O'sensei's quotes about peace and "unifying the world" and are ignoring the martial aspect of it and the fact that Ueshiba was truly a badass martial artist

[@jjs3890]

Another great video. Yes, jujitsu was a combat art (life and death conflict). Samurai goal (in h2h combat) was to kill or severely injure the poop meant to kill them. Striking was the shed both before grappling (to make joint locks and throws easier). Modern versions of striking AFTER the throw are in but to simulate the finish with a tanto or wakizashi. Jujitsu striking generally is taken from koppojutsu, daken tai jutsu and Kenpo. Judo is the transitioned jujitsu that you can train daily for sport. Again, samurai sparing allowed for severe injuries and deaths and they happened frequently. Judo made jujitsu safe and perhaps more adequate for modern times. BOTH overlap in self defense purposes.

[@JudoMateo]

So Lex Luger was inspired by Jiu Jitsu?! That’s awesome, maybe that’s why I always loved the “Torture rack”!

[@Chadi]

🤙🏻

[@tichtran8792]

Well there is evidence that catch wrestling ( the daddy of pro and freestyle wrestlings) was influenced by Japanese jujutsu.

[@JudoMateo]

@@tichtran8792 And Judo.

[@tichtran8792]

@@JudoMateo Maybe. I know catch and pro wrestling have "judo" style hip toss, wrist lock manipulation( more like aikido), armbars, etc. But judo/jujutsu don't do a cross face or suplex. Cross face like the crippler cross face. And Benoit was trained by Stu Hart a pro and CATCH wrestler. Yep Benoit was a trained catch wrestler.

[@tichtran8792]

And Ronda Rousey was taught BOTH judo and catch wrestling by judo Gene Lebell. Catch wrestling is definitely perfect for her understanding of pro wrestling ( which she later gone into).

[@ultimateoutdoors4659]

8.14 - three aikido techniques - kote gaeshi, dai sankyo and shihonage. Seen others in this video. Use of atemi very rarely seen in judo training but quite common in certain styles of aikido and aikijujutsu. Good video.

[@jensbrachmann2802]

Hi Chadi, thanks for your great work, you got certainly the best Judo channel on KZbin, it is really enjoyable! Just out of curiosity, did you make a video on Judo in the Paralympics yet? I saw a tournament lately and it was really interesting. Regards from Germany

[@Chadi]

Not yet

[@jestfullgremblim8002]

@@Chadi you are indeed the best channel that covers Judo. this channel is not about teaching people the techniques of a martial art, one can learn those on a Dojo or even in google, this channel makes a lot of enfasis on the history of everything, and doesn't not only cover Judo wich is great. it compares different arts to see the differences of each one, their strenghts and weaknesess, you never go "hurr durr aikido is bad" but rather understand the good things about every art, you seem to be one of those few people that undertand that every art can and will be effective if you train on the apropiate way. We love ya Chadi

[@markhoeflinger1040]

thank you i enjoyed your video, what i rememeber from judo is, the person doing the throw, controls the throw, to keep the person safe when he hits the ground in sport judo.........street fight is different in that any throw can become a deveistating introduction to the hard ground , and a bone braking, experience for the intruder......controlled by the person throwing....

[@lunam7249]

Fatal event!!

[@ramondiaz2851]

Love the groin strikes!!

[@yetigriff]

As always restamp the groin

[@cyborgchicken3502]

This just proves a point that I keep trying to make to both MMA and TMA enthusiasts, that all Traditional Martial Arts at some point used to be Mixed martial arts and vice versa, nearly every so called "traditional martial art" I've come across like karate, judo, Jujitsu, taekwondo, Kung Fu, Tai chi and Wing Chun etc, all of them involved grapples, wrestling and strikes....the grappling arts had strikes and the striking arts had grapples, even a kick heavy martial art like taekwondo had grapples in it, the problem is that they've been watered down due to stupid Olympic and competition rules....yet it's like trying to explain these things to a 3 year old

[@lunam7249]

As a master...I say... congratulations you figured it out

[@ganjagym]

Dear Chadi, I am really fascinated by how a complete and beautiful art judo was/is. I moved to France last year, now with the opening of gyms, I would like to restart training BJJ or/and start to learn Judo. Do you know by any chance, whether there are judo dojos in Toulouse (where I live now), where I could start to learn judo as an adult (it seems to me, that most places are either for kids, or adults who are already proficient, black belts). And many thanks for your amazing work!

[@casparbosch5615]

Go train with the adults, even if they are black belts.

[@marktripp138]

Judo is huge in France. Second only to soccer. I’m sure you will find a dojo

[@talesfromthetoiletseat8295]

I read France is crazy about Judo. At one time they were cranking out serious level competitors. I bet there a dojo that will be a good fit.

[@killersalmon4359]

Judo is big in France. Finding a club should be easy in any city.

[@Chadi]

Look for the closest dojo, make sure they are welcoming and caring Don't worry about anything else

[@gonzaloestivalessilva2750]

Nice video and explanation, very interesting as well, thanks for sharing.

[@stevenhsu5703]

The original kata guruma is badass it is like a reverse F5

[@274pacific]

F5 was the first thing I thought of too lol.

[@Djudo-q9x]

Fr that would hurt like hell on concrete

[@rapidfire4528]

I practiced aikido for 2 years and I remember two different instructors taught very differently, the senior instructor from Japan only used distracting strikes to take opponents off balance making the technique easier to execute, the other sensei used heavy handed strikes to cause maximum damage, both instructors taught on different days and times so I don’t if the latter was approved for teaching, no one seemed to have a problem with it, watching this video makes me wonder if what we learned from 2nd sensei were banned techniques not approved for instruction

[@decoy807]

I found this very refreshing. I started judo at 9 and after a few years we started doing what is now known as cross training. I was fortunate to have a Judo Sensei who held Nidan ranking in Aiki Jujitsu as well as ( I believe Ikkyu ) in Shotokan Karate. Once a week we did a "self defense" class. MY other Sensei(s) were a Canadian Military and another was a Police Officer. We did an eclectic training using old Shotokan punching kicking as a base along with Goshin/Aiiki wrist and arm drags. I consider myself very luck to have this Much of Judo these days have been sanitized of its true Martial Form in my opinion. I believe if Kano had lived long enough to see the evolution of Judo he would have kept some of the old ( more lethal ) techniques.

[@mgtowlite7414]

Great stuff, *Chadi.* Reminds me of the genyle Aikido vs older Aiki-Jujutsu comparison.

[@gatocles99]

I love all the guys who harp about how "full contact" training is the only way. With certain techniques you just can't do full contact... well, you can, but you will very quickly run out of training partners.

[@onerider808]

Naw. After getting sent to the penitentiary for messing up opponents with “full contact”, they will have plenty of opportunities to practice “full contact”, and plenty of “training partners”.

[@gagworks]

hence the banned techniques. The 'too dangerous' ones are small in number and since they can't be trained efficiently they fell away during the evolution. The majority of techniques which are not 'too dangerous' and can be practiced over and over again to a certain level of proficiency are the ones that will be more useful, and can be as deadly and fight ending. Why be bothered about the dirty moves at all? What use is a skill that one cannot practice or get better at?

[@jjs3890]

Full contact is useful but not the “only way”. As an instructor in samurai arts I tried to figure out a way to spar with the techniques. I came to the realization that…you can’t. Not without high risk of severe injury. So I created “Modern Jujitsu”. Mixing my experiences of other arts G rated jujitsu throws (similar to judo) without locks and allowing break falls with muay tai, combat Sambo, Bare knuckle boxing and US Marines h2h. So we can spar h2h, spar weapons and apply samurai sensitivity. The samurai throws and locks just cannot be trained live. But kata and safe sparing is more than enough to find the openings to apply them when desired.

[@lylemcdermott2566]

I don't know about wrist locks outside a controlled environment though, without gis and with minimal opposition people don't let themselves get caught that easily.

[@gatocles99]

@@gagworks The banned techniques are trained very easily. American Rough and Tumble fighters used them all the time with very little training.

[@dwrabauke]

2:38 as a child I learned that with this throw, it is a courtesy in training to "lift" ukes arm like in the video, so they do not slam the mat with their whole body. Some people were really nasty and sometimes "forgot" that in randori...

[@ByeByeSummer]

Jujutsu was used in ancient times for dueling with Japanese swords. When two Japanese swords clashed, one of them would often be missing, so as a last resort, jujutsu was sometimes used to try to subdue the opponent. It was also used in Tsubagai to disable the opponent's arm or to break the opponent's stance and cut him down.

[@williamnantz5604]

That first technique looks absolutely ruthless! Thanks for sharing

[@Quach7]

I like the direction Judo was aiming for from the start. "To beat swords into plowshares." - Isiah. Wrestling did that too, Olympic wrestling I mean. Olympic wrestling removes all submission holds. Ironically, "fake" wrestling (WWE) kept all the lethal stuff. Gracie Jujitsu REVERSES the evolution of Jujitsu to Judo, they turned Judo back into Jujitsu. I am not so sure that is a good thing. Any way, in one generation from UFC1 BJJ is turning into Ground Judo. You can't turn a chicken back into a dinosaur, nor should you want to. I think this is why the movie Taken 2 is such a big hit. We don't see that kind of lethality in hand to hand combat. It is almost a historical film! kzbin.info/www/bejne/pp6WY3-Vnt5gnJY

[@Chadi]

I'd say first generation Gracie kept the self defense aspect. But yes ibjjf is now ground work only

[@MichaelAussie05]

Thanks for your time and efforts on a interesting and informative video. Cheers.

[@psyience3213]

Oh man imagine getting jacked in the balls while defending an armbar 😆 and im one who says groin strikes are largely bullshit but damn id let go 😂 This is good stuff to remember foe the streetzz

[@joebarbosa1942]

Save your ass

[@brandonshukuri6487]

What about groin grappling? Does that sound effective? Why strike when I can grab, pull, twist and crush?

[@MJRLHobbyStuff]

Kata guruma, is hidden in the end of the Kushanku/kankudai karate katas it’s the very last move. Kushanku also has the elbow break over your trap muscle as well. Great stuff

[@Matteo-ks6fn]

Everything ancient that passed to nowadays has been refined, cleaned and made politically correct like modern claw hammers, which claw and head in ancient times were made not just to pull out or push in nails but for piercing through armor plates and helmets and bashing anything under a chain mail. So no wonder, JuJitsu had lethal moves and techniques.

[@TheJakeJackson]

You always expect some great takes in reactionary videos, but "political correctness ruined claw hammers" deserves a fucking award.

[@Matteo-ks6fn]

@@TheJakeJackson In reality it was meant like a "Oh, wow! An antique and lost bunch of lethal moves in a martial art! What a surprise! Never heard of!" but thought an explanation was needed for those who has no sense of humor and just reply "Looks we have another one who doesn't know a f*ck about...", which also shows lack of common sense, for they forget martial arts were originally meant for fighting and killing. Like claw hammers, which can still do.

[@TheJakeJackson]

@@Matteo-ks6fn Fun fact: all intelligent life, human and animal, invents tools for working and gathering first, fighting and killing later (if ever). But dudes who have nothing else going for them except their short temper gotta pretend that's worth something and so try to act like fighting is what invented the wheel and developed agriculture and medicine so go off I guess lol...

[@4thbranch834]

Excellent video! This is really awesome information man!

[@dianelidell5768]

I actually learned that first technique with breaking the elbow while throwing over the shoulder in Hapkido 🥋👍😁.

[@Chadi]

🤙🏻

[@andrewboardman2654]

It's in a Judo book I have too, has a couple self defense variations.

[@brianstantz3457]

We called it "Gyaku seoi nage". It was actually far easier to hit in sparring than thr regular shoulder throw but man it was nasty.

[@muhammadibnmusaal-chorezmi7240]

Judo origins are not only in jujutsu but in world wide wrestling as well. Kano was very open minded and in his search he was looking at British, French, India, Mongoliam, American ... wrestling styles. He was sending students all over the world to observe other styles. Can you make a movie about some none Japanese techniques that ended up in judo.

[@eagle162]

He only took one move from Western wrestling, he sent students to spread his art not to gain new techniques.

[@muhammadibnmusaal-chorezmi7240]

@@eagle162 I personally can name at least 4 but that's beyond the argument

[@eagle162]

@@muhammadibnmusaal-chorezmi7240 if you could name four then it's not beyond the argument name them.

[@muhammadibnmusaal-chorezmi7240]

@@eagle162 Just one of them kzbin.info/www/bejne/jZ68e32EaalrrJY

[@eagle162]

@@muhammadibnmusaal-chorezmi7240 oh my God which one at what time and I didn't ask for a video you said you can name 4 so named 4.

[@ajithdesilva4280]

Informative , and Interesting! Thank you for sharing this!

[@joebarbosa1942]

Classic judo with striking the body is effective form of maning your foe-fiends

[@Quach7]

The kids today call it "frenemies."

[@user-xuuser113]

Thank you for this stuff 🙂

[@CWstealth20]

Having Atemi Waza makes Judo look like Point Karate but with more grappling

[@Chadi]

With attacking the groin

[@thedroidish]

Thank you for your content, sir.

[@Chadi]

🙇🏻‍♂️

[@Eternaprimavera73]

it is funny that almost all the techniques presented as lethal are basic aikido-like techniques...but then aikido doesn t work in someone's opinion, because it is not like judo...which put asides the lethal techniques. While Kano sent his best students to learn the aikido, which was dumb if judo already had these techniques.

[@Chadi]

The problem with aikido is the static predictable attacks not the techniques, do these in the context of judo randori and people will be hurt

[@Eternaprimavera73]

@@Chadi but this is the kata of the aikido, not the practice of aikido. Do you consider judo for the katas?

[@zachfleming5297]

@@Eternaprimavera73 ok you try akido and ill try punching you with combos

[@Eternaprimavera73]

@@zachfleming5297 try it, no problem

[@muhammadibnmusaal-chorezmi7240]

@@Eternaprimavera73It resembles of aiki-jujutsu of wich Ueshiba was a student while young and from which Ueshiba removed aggressive energy moves while creating aikido.

[@furytv9427]

hi chadi im from philippines pls upload more videos about judo i want to learn more old school judo

[@Chadi]

Will do

[@olanrewajuihenacho178]

What an excellent video. From my very first judo lessons it was stressed that we each have a responsibility to not injure our training partners and competition opponents. Long may it be so. 👏🏿👏🏿👍🏿🇬🇧

[@omarcarmona5434]

If I'm not wrong, the second one that comes from Jujutsu (Aikijujutsu more precisely) is not regarded as Kata Guruma; instead, it is a technique called Ganseki Otoshi.

[@donl3634]

Thanks for the fascinating video!!

[@smashboom]

I’m lucky that my Japanese jujutsu still teaches us these self-defense techniques

[@andreelyusef3235]

Excellent video sir!

[@fredazcrate4362]

Chadi thank you for the insightful commentary.💯👌👊👍

[@Chadi]

🙇🏻‍♂️

[@corujariousa]

Thanks for the video! The same, and variations of these techniques are present in Aikido, which is not a competitive Martial Art of course.

[@IJDaKaR]

Miyama Ryu Jujutsu, as a self-defense and combat style, keeps most of this as part of its core, since white belt. It originates from military experiences and formal japanese judo and aikido education in a very classical and traditional way, but it was meant for self-defense in the streets so it tries to be swift and effective. I can't remember if you had mentioned in a video I saw a while back. Miyama Ryu is probably what the comment of the Bronx, NY refers to below.

[@mrtulipeater]

Nice touch with the background music. Looking very forward to your book.

[@Chadi]

Thank you