'Kimura VS Gracie' technical breakdown / Kimura - Gracie Cup proposal

[@jasontroy3911]

Kimura wiped the floor with Helio....not even close

[@Chadi]

Indeed

[@Byzantios1]

I agree

[@zaenalmishima7341]

@P Kamino still, kimura wipe the floor with helio ass all the way to the moon LoL

[@jasontroy3911]

@P Kamino none of the gracies tap....they grew up that way...grappling since diapers

[@socalbeachieboy6135]

In his own home country too

[@Madeyoulook123]

This is an insanely needed breakdown. Bjj and judo is evolving backwards, they’re so worried about “sports” version of their styles that it takes away the core of martial arts self defense

[@Chadi]

Thank you, you couldn't have said it any other way

[@m5a1stuart83]

The reason why IJF go to more like Greco is that no other arts enter Judo Tournament and winning. But it makes Judo more narrow in development.

[@dianecenteno5275]

Absolutely agree! Both sports are walking backwards. Sad😔

[@chandlerprice5622]

You are the most criminally underrated martial arts channel out here. You’re on the way up for sure. So informative, along with great visuals, on interesting niche grappling topics. I’ve learned a lot about grappling and grappling history here, especially judo which there really isn’t as much easy to access information for in comparison to arts like bjj and boxing. Thanks man, please keep it up!

[@Chadi]

Thank you so much Chandler

[@Byzantios1]

Kimura was the Man. Judo forever.

[@Chadi]

Indeed

[@dasfsadg]

The Kimura-Gracie Cup is a fantastic idea and I hope it comes to fruition

[@Chadi]

I sure hope so

[@jhonnyrodriguez3198]

That will be awesome

[@PARR53]

Kimura smashed Helio Gracie. Broke his arm and choked him unconscious he just refused to tap. The Gracies tell a very slanted view of the match. As much as I love BJJ, Kimura dominated Helio.

[@Chadi]

Indeed

[@עלדרךהסוד2]

Whay not to say thanks so much gracie family as you change the understanding of martial arts

[@tomwalker389]

I like how Rener made an ass whuppin' sound like an absolute moral victory.

[@Chadi]

'A modern day samurai'

[@aaronzevi2788]

@@Chadi kzbin.info/www/bejne/monEZHeYbNqeiK8 - the producer of the video provides facts against the Gracies' claims

[@RenegadeRanga]

Greatest propagandists in history.

[@ADAM_COLLECTS]

saying his grandpa was outweighed by 90 pounds… his grandpa did not weigh 90lbs!

[@luhuang5256]

My favorite part is that Helio took 2 osoto-gari from Kimura and an assortment of other throws. A single osoto-gari from Kimura would end the fight outside the mats. "The gong rang. Helio grabbed me in both lapels, and attacked me with O-soto-gari and Kouchi-gari. But they did not move me at all. Now it’s my turn. I blew him away up in the air by O-uchi-gari, Harai-goshi, Uchimata, Ippon-seoi. At about 10 minute mark, I threw him by O-soto-gari. I intended to cause a concussion. But since the mat was so soft that it did not have much impact on him. While continuing to throw him, I was thinking of a finishing method. I threw him by O-soto-gari again. As soon as Helio fell, I pinned him by Kuzure-kami-shiho-gatame."

[@Chadi]

I truly wish we have the complete footage

[@NicholasHolman1]

as a BJJ boy this channel is the most fascinating shit; a good look into our roots :)

[@Chadi]

Thank you Nick

[@angchoon]

Very excellent technical analysis. I have not found any channel that does this better than you. Thumbs up!

[@Chadi]

Thank you so much

[@RichardYu1983]

There's speculation that Rorian edited the video and just made fragments of the match available for the public; the full version is locked away somewhere in the Gracie archives. Remember, originally, Rorian was claiming Masahiko Kimura was 100 kilos to Helio Gracie's 66 kilos. Also, I remember distinctly seeing in "Black Belt" magazine the Gracie's claiming they were undefeated for 80 years.

[@Chadi]

It's a shame we don't have the full match

[@dakotaroosa202]

“Whorion, is a greedy douche bag. He is one of the ones that helped erase Carlos sr. out of Brazilian jiu jitsu. Carlos at least credited it as a Japanese art.

[@RichardYu1983]

Dakota Roosa They also hid the fact they trained with Tatu, the founder of Luta Livre.

[@tomwalker389]

This match is not legit. I don't see any patches on the gis.

[@Chadi]

That made me chuckle

[@sardalamit]

This was really good! Plz do more of these analyses ! The around the world pin..the way you described the flow..it became very clear to me. Thank you 👍

[@Chadi]

Thank you Amit

[@lurkingvariable9913]

I don't know how I'm just finding this channel now, but it's excellent! Great job! Subbed.

[@Chadi]

Thank you very much

[@Judoka661]

I think it would be amazing in honor of such a historic match.... it would be insane I would definitely watch it

[@Chadi]

Indeed

[@b-dogswings8019]

My dad always told me about the judo leg locks. He practiced in the 1950s 1960s

[@TheJitsGuy]

I finally found someone who hustles more than me on this hahahha! Awesome work as always Chadi!

[@Chadi]

Thank you man i truly appreciate it

[@roninnotasheeplikeyou.2631]

Kimura all day for me.

[@Chadi]

100%

[@perrinmuma]

Rener told this story and tried to make it look like his grandfather was the underdog, lied Kimura was 80 pounds heavier, said Kimura was the best bjj fighter at the time (as to say only a bjj guy could beat a bjj guy) and Kimura couldn't finish him still whereas Kimura was received with so much hate, had eggs threw on him and Helio apparently brought his "coffin". No budo or moral code in bjj lol

[@Chadi]

It was ugly for sure

[@MrRee-bi2xr]

Kimura used o-soto-gari, not ashi-guruma. The throw was to the back. Kimura knew the throw very well, and he said it was o-soto-gari, and I agree---not that that matters.

[@perrinmuma]

It's called the gyaku ude garami....it's aching when people call it the Kimura. That's like calling a joe Rogan spinning back kick the Rogan because I'd never seen it before

[@Chadi]

100% mon frère

[@julianramirez5203]

Love your videos! Have faith that I will see your channel have even more success!

[@Chadi]

🙇🏻‍♂️

[@AnGhaeilge]

It's funny watching the Gracies try to claim Kimura had 80lbs on Helio. To put that into perspective - that's the weight difference between Demetrious Johnson and Jon Jones. If you look at them standing next to each other, Kimura had maybe 10 or 15lbs at most on Helio. Kimura won because he was better. He was a master judoka with a training ethic people couldn't begin to imagine.

[@AnGhaeilge]

Also you can watch the full documentary shown at the start of this video in high-def here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bom1mKijjJeGnLs - It's called Judoka, and is about Canadian judoka Doug Rogers who trained under Kimura. You can see Kimura's training regime in it to see why he was so damn good. Doug passed away 2 days ago.

[@AnGhaeilge]

Also I love your videos btw Chadi. I've been watching them the past few weeks, your breakdowns are awesome. Keep them up.

[@Chadi]

Thank you so much An i really appreciate the feedback and i have watched this small documentary, very enlightening, thank you once again

[@wendellignatin1228]

Kimura and Gracie. Two greats. One guy has a style named after his family. The other has a hold named for him. Need I say more?

[@vaughanmacegan4012]

So, Kimura had a Judo hold named after him? I think not!

[@t.warren1363]

Vaughan MacEgan he has the Brazilian Jiu Jutsu hold named after him. Which is stupid since all he did was use a Judo technique. It’s just more of the Gracies being full of themselves (and I’m saying this as someone who has trained Brazilian Jiu Jutsu).

[@wendellignatin1228]

Yes. They are full of themselves. I agree with you.

[@vaughanmacegan4012]

@@t.warren1363 The move is Ude Garame, and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu (which by the way is an incorrect spelling) was Judo taught to the Gracie's by Mitsuyo Maeda - a fantastic exponent of Newaza at the Kodokan dojo. If they can't remember the names of the moves that their instructor taught it's a fracken disgrace. And I'm saying this as someone who has studied Judo and two styles of Jujutsu and learnt a lot of Japanese in the process. For the record Jiu mean nothing in any language except for one reference in an Indian language which meant girl - so the art is girl truth?!?

[@vaughanmacegan4012]

@TMY 12 If it's meant to mean the "Flexible Art" it is! If it's meant to mean "Made Up Truth" then perhaps they have the right name.

[@tolar190]

The possible rules are really interesting to think about! The closest we have at the moment is Sakuraba's Quintet?

[@Chadi]

Yeah i would propose gi, sub only, no guard pulling the fight will go to the ground via takedown, the team with the most wins will win, matches are fixed by weight categories

[@Chadi]

Amd maybe you win by 3 clean throws or submissions only, that way bjj will work on wrestling and judokas will work more on ne Waza

[@tolar190]

@@Chadi I imagine wrist locks would have to be taken out though?

[@claesandersson5300]

Awesome Chadi. Much better than Reners video😊 great work

[@Chadi]

🤣🤣🤣🤣 thank you Claes, did not expect that one

[@HollyNihon]

Helio looks like a helpless deer being attack by a mighty tiger.

[@tommybrewer9911]

Very good idea. How would you see the rules going in such a crossover venture?

[@Chadi]

Maybe do the 20 minutes rules helio and kimura played under

[@tommybrewer9911]

@@Chadi Yes sir makes sense. and no takedowns or submissions bared?

[@jtilton5]

I don't know if the Ganryujima event promotions will ever come back, but your Gracie vs Kimura Cup idea would be perfect for their format. Thoght they mostly did striking arts they would modify the ruleset for Judo vs Jui Jitsu matches.

[@Chadi]

It would revolutionise gi grappling

[@texdiddyable]

0:11 Just by looking his expressions, you know he is not someone to mess with. Rest in peace.

[@physicalactivityscience1821]

that's a great idea. There are basically 3 ways of doing it: a) For me the most logical. You have 3 rounds of 5 minutes. One round of IJF rules(or similar); another of IBJJF rules (or similar); And another of mixed rules. The order should be randomized. The hard part is to decide the mixed rules, but I guess for the competition to be even, probably the mixed rules have to favor IBJJ a little bit. Maybe not by removing penalties for failed attacks/guard pulls, but rather not force a stand up upon stalemate on the ground.Then it will make a big difference to either side if ippon is left only for submissions or for throws as well. It also needs to be decided if ippon can be awarded for osaekomi or if points should be given to knee on belly or back take. I think leg attacks need to be decided as well. b) Only 2 rounds, one of IBJJF rules and another of IJF rules. I reckon this will favor pure Judo players and not many pure BJJ players will like this. c) 1 to 3 rounds of different variations of mixed rules, mixing the variables mentioned in a). I imagine these events would attract mostly athletes of mid level with mixed background. It might be a strecht, at least in the beginning, to have top athletes involved.

[@alexcoxwell3046]

Great video one of my favorites

[@tarasbulba77]

Excellent presentation, I like how you correctly identify the technique as Ashi Guruma and not Osoto gari 👍

[@Chadi]

Thank you Taras

[@Taquilou]

I love the fact that they wrote for hélio « the best NON Japanese ju j’itsu fighter ever »

[@HollyNihon]

At 1:27, Kimura pulls his left arm to prevent Helio from landing head first. Kimura has thrown 50 men consecutively by Oo-sotogari and rendered all of them unconscious. After this incident, tough judoka at Kodokan and Tokyo Metropolitan Police begged him not to use Oo-sotogari. They also complained about his Ude-garami which caused many injuries. Thereafter, he refrained from using Oosotogari and Ude-garami at Kodokan and Tokyo Metropolitan Police. The distinctive characteristic of his Oo-sotogari is that the head of his opponent is forced to fall vertically onto the ground. Because the trajectory of the head of his opponent takes the shortest path to the ground at high speed, the length of time from the initiation of the Oo-sotogari motion to the moment of slam onto the ground is far shorter than the reaction time of his opponent. So, the head of his opponent is slammed onto the ground before the opponent reacts to the Oo-sotogari. When I saw Kimura vs Helio video for the first time, I could not understand why Kimura was throwing Helio so slowly, at about 30% of his max speed. Now I understand the reason. Kimura did not want to hurt Helio, and executed a carefully controlled Oo-sotogari. In this video, Kimura is rescuing Helio's head from falling vertically by pulling his left arm (though it is hard to see). Therefore, Helio's head is not slammed onto the mat. This is in agreement with the following statements in Choque 2&3. global-training-report.com/myths2_GIA1988.htm Myth 10. Kimura later said that he viewed the match with Helio as a pro-wrestling match with special rules (see Choque 2, chp 2, and Choque 3, app. 5). Myth 12: Kimura told Jaime Ferreira, a former Gracie associate, that he prolonged the match to give the public a show. He had planned to use jiu-jitsu in case Helio attacked. But Helio never attacked (Choque 2, p. 63-64.) Myth 15: Kimura was not impressed with Helio's techniques because he viewed them as inappropriately defensive. He despised excessive defensiveness. If Helio had managed to sweep Kimura, threatened with a submission, escaped from a position, or even improved his position (rather than postpone the moment when he and Carlos had pre-arranged for the towel to be thrown in), then Kimura might have had a different opinion. But that didn't happen.

[@Chadi]

Kimura absolutely dominated

[@AroundElvesWatchUrselves96]

Broke his arm in two places 🤣

[@Chadi]

Ouch

[@michaellachina9516]

Helio Gracie actually said in an interview, that he lost consciousness from Kimura's crushing hold (maybe the yoko sankaku jime?) Kimura thought the hold was not being effective so he changed position and Helio woke up and kept fighting.

[@Chadi]

Good to know thank you

[@kpllc4209]

I thought Kimura said he let him go because they were working and he did not want to beat him yet.

[@dontwalkdontrun]

Passed out from the mounted pin belly smother. I can't recall the proper name but Kimura said he did it on purpose and only let him out because he didn't think he had passed out.

[@champlife6353]

Quality content i leared a lot about judo

[@Chadi]

Thank you

[@champlife6353]

@@Chadi No man thank you keep up the good work i think i will start judo here in Kosova when the pandemic ends we have a good team and a gold medalist Majlinda Kelmendi.

[@holdenmuganda97]

Good vid but I still am leaning towards the throw being osoto vs. ashi. It’s just more of a hopping version but I respect your opinion.

[@Chadi]

A hybrid of the two almost

[@jhonnyrodriguez3198]

Kimura Gracie cup would be great. Especially with Quintet like set up and rules

[@Deadlifter700]

I like that Kimura-Gracie cup idea! Those match ups would be exciting.

[@Chadi]

I should send out letters

[@bluetiger5064]

That idea sounds good on paper, but i don't think it will work. What would be the rule set anyway, ippon wins or submission wins?

[@ALL_CAPS__]

Maybe, win by submission or tap with all throws allowed? It would force both sides to up their game.

[@fernandohsantos]

Technically, for me, Kimura did Osoto-gari indeed, instead of Ashi-Guruma. Let me explain my opinion: in Osoto-gari, kuzushi is so that Uke is thrown towards his back, as Tori moves forward. Of course, there is a lot of ways to do Osoto-gari, and as we can see in the footage, Kimura performs this technique in a diagonal frontal direction rather than straight forward (there is footage of him doing uchikomi this way, and teaching it). Other judoka do Osoto-gari from different angles and movement, for instance, Yasuhiro Yamashita teaches to start not from the exact from of Uke, but from one step aside, in order to do Osoto-gari straight-forward, and Teddy Riner does Osoto-gari from a long distance in diagonal also, almost like Osoto-otoshi. But what characterizes a technique is mostly kuzushi, for me. In Ashi-guruma, Uke's balance is broken to his front, and he's thrown in a circular motion; there is a change in direction from Tori's attack. That's not what I see in the video, I still see very clearly Helio being thrown to his right-backward direction, and Kimura advancing to his lef-front direction. Also, Ashi-guruma is made for performing when Tori is moving backwards, pulling Uke, or when in a circular motion (which is better).

[@tomwalker389]

In regards to the Kimura-Gracie Cup, the IJF would never allow any Judoka to compete in it.

[@Chadi]

Unfortunately

[@dakotaroosa202]

Eddie Bravo

[@tomwalker389]

Dakota Roosa Not allowed. You need IJF permission for any and every competition, be it dance or chess.

[@fontecansada4617]

Dear Chadi, what is the book that you showed the picture? Thank you, and hopefully everything is okay !!!

[@guilhermeferreira8288]

In Kimura biograph, and people who was there, they say that Kimura broked Hélio arm, because Hélio did not tap, and and Carlos trow the towel, and now the Gracies and other people are trying to change the facts, and are saying that Carlos trow the towel before Hélio get the arm broked

[@Chadi]

We need the entire footage

[@guilhermeferreira8288]

@@Chadi in old interviews and newspaper, the information says that Hélio for his arm broked because he did not tap

[@kristopherpichon2170]

Show the two fights against Japanese Judokas that led to this fight also.

[@ОлександрБеспалько-х9и]

I suppose that ruleset that will favor both BJJ and Judo practitioners is the following: "Submission only... but on the concrete floor" or, imagine a tournament "Iron mat", with mats made of steel

[@Chadi]

That would be insane

[@marceloprada3558]

IBJJF would probably be against this kind of tournament. They have tons of reservations concerning judocas around the world. And IJF also would be against the judocas participating in such tournaments.

[@Chadi]

It's worth a shot

[@ТеоретикНЕмногопрактик]

Кимура молодец.

[@joesphruggiero3707]

Luv it ossss,ko him also but he woke up then he squeezed so hard in position then he couldn't breath it was insane

[@joeguillaume296]

The guys who organize adcc. They're independent and seem open to anyone taking up promotion. Adcc has gi so your idea just needs to be pitched to them. Not much change just promoted differently.

[@Chadi]

I hope so

[@Howsoonisnow2009]

Your idea is great and I hope it happens

[@Chadi]

I hope so too

[@edmonddorki8126]

Neck cranks, wrist locks, foot and ankle locks must be back! To make judo greatest again.

[@PhilosophyofArtandScience]

Eddie Bravo would do it NoGi (the Kimura Gracie Cup)

[@hawaiianonymous3917]

This is the best 😌

[@Chadi]

Thank you Edi

[@thebigbadwolf904]

Kimura was so good he made gracie look like a white belt.

[@Chadi]

Indeed

[@regdiag5355]

What it makes it look more like osoto gari is that Helio's right leg was leading. in the demonstration of ashi guruma the leg that makes the axis of rotation stays behind. I think Kimura didn't wait to make some strong kuzushi and used his speed and power to make the throw. I think Kimura was a very great grappeler. He had strong newaza. It is confusing me. Was it Kimura who had strong newaza or Helio and BJJ was not as good in the ground as today?

[@Chadi]

Judo always had ground game historically, then the Brazilians had it

[@model84]

Gracies learned from JUDOKA (who was also a catch wrestler) and Kimura was 2x bigger and he knew stuff. Judo is (was) complete before Olimpic Committee came and said 'no no no ground game is boring, only highlights air throws for spectators'

[@barryirlandi4217]

Inshallaah...but what rules??? Just submissions?

[@Chadi]

I was thinking submission could end the match or 3 ippon throws, that way each art has their advantages.

[@oguzmen5451]

Exciting

[@MagickArmory]

I really enjoy your videos my fellow online budo buddy . One thing I'd slightly disagree with is that when u say "kesa getame (scarf hold) isnt used that much in Jiu-jutsu " . I mean there may not be as much focus on it same way as in competitive judo but in my experience I was taught kesa as 1 of the first positional controls that's focused on . And the escape that Helio uses here is literally referred to as "headlock escape #1 " in the gracie combatives program . I'm not saying you're wrong but think it may be the difference in curriculums ,what most sport focused jj schools teach and what the more self defense /actual fighting focused JJ schools (like gracie academy & JJGF schools which imo are more in line with traditional Jiu-jitsu/ Judo based than they like to let on lol) . I actually won my first gold medal (1st time competition as well) because of using this same technique and I did get some "what the hell was that" kind of looks from ppl but it's a basic fundamental technique if ya ask me . Anyway back to your "Gracie Cup" question I have had similar thoughts/ idea as to what ur proposing . I think the best ppl/organizations to approach would be the JJGF (jiu jitsu Global federation) on the JJ side of things because the whole purpose of that organisation (founded by Rickson Gracie) is to connect the dots so to speak and make JJ (and Judo by association of ya ask me ) what it was meant to be before IBJJF muddied the waters (that's my opinion) they want all the control and I just dont see them trying to improve or do anything like that so yea JJGF look into it . It's not competition focused but the goal is to make the sport side as efficient as possible without destroying fundamental concepts and actual fighting principles that the gi competition score points and run stall etc that the IBJJF sport model sometimes has . Sorry 4 long comment . Gr8 work Osu!

[@Chadi]

Thank you for your insight, I'll send out letters to them

[@joelpettit25]

Great vid, but sorry, Chadi, but this is actually O-soto gari. Also, everyone should know that you might not see it in the footage, but from this interview, we know how dominant Kimura actually was. Helio admitted that he was choked out once during the fight. judoinfo.com/helio/ Nishi: Could you tell me more details about the fight with the master Kimura? Helio: Sure! Helio: In the beginning I carefully tried to find a breakthrough, but I was in his control as soon as we stood close to each other. I had no time to even hold or grapple him. What I barely could do was to avoid his perfect throw in such a way that I relaxed the strength of all my body and moved my position a little bit at the moment when Kimura tried to throw me and as a result Kimura lost his balance. I was taken into the ground, and I got choked at first. It was difficult to breathe. I felt it working enough so I was wondering if I should tap as I promised Carlos. Nishi: ? Helio: Well, this is what I’ve never told anybody before. It seems I went unconscious while I was thinking about what to do [give up or not]. Naturally all the staff let alone Nishi were surprised to hear that, but what was more impressive than that was the shocked expression on Rorion’s face. Helio: If Kimura had continued to choke me, I would have died for sure. But since I didn’t give up, Kimura let go of the choke and went into the next technique. Being released from the choke and the pain from the next technique revived me and I continued to fight. Kimura went to his grave without ever knowing the fact that I was finished. If possible, I wish I could have talked about the fight with him and let him know about it.

[@Chadi]

Thanks

[@GoDaveGo]

I wouldn’t want to train with Kimura, much less enter shiai with him, so that’s something you can say for Hélio.

[@Djent7779]

i spend most of my time on the mat in kesa getame?

[@Chadi]

I don't understand

[@Djent7779]

@@Chadi you said kesa getame is a position that is never used in bjj, but i spend most of my time when i roll in kesa getame, some go to "half guard", - but my go to is kesa getame (side control)

[@BasedNation]

Weight looks to favor kimura by a nice amount..

[@donaldduke2233]

The fight was 100% under Gracie Rules. That means anything you do that makes the Gracie lose is illegal. Kimura won with Ippon in what I timed as 9 1/2 seconds. Please track down the complete video of this match and post it for your fans.

[@Chadi]

Regardless Kimura rocked it

[@vaughanmacegan4012]

The proposal you made could work, but, not in the way your described. The only way it could work and I stress *only* is if the fighters are younger in college at least on the Japanese side/team, because lets face it they are just more intelligent, and Brazil has been decimated by the "beer bug". Anyway the Japanese students would be those attending Kōtō Senmon Gakkō colleges and practice that what is termed Kosen Judo. If you used that ruleset you could easily setup a tournament. A tournament between Japan and Brazil would go down a storm and if the fighters from Brazil do well they could very well get a scholarship to attend a Japanese University as well as do Judo. That would make it a really strong selling point. Make it happen!

[@Chadi]

I'll try thank you!

[@seteetlemonde7656]

KIMURA THE BEST

[@Chadi]

100%

[@juyama7489]

In a Judo team vs BJJ team match you’d have to make a very specific ruleset though. Judoka will definitely not like their opponents spamming guard pull and BJJ guys wouldn’t like the fact that they probably won’t be allowed to stall in guard. If you just play by the BJJ ruleset, Judoka probably wouldn’t be as interested because our approach to ne waza isn’t the same as BJJ. Judo goes more along the lines of throw and get the job done on the floor while BJJ goes more along the line of pull guard and see where it goes from here, generally at least.

[@Chadi]

Guard pulling is a no no

[@vindicatedafi]

BJJ is a battle of attrition that’s why a lot of matches are kind of boring to watch in Judo you are suppose to engage and take out the opponent. Much more dynamic explosive and athletic.

[@luhuang5256]

@@Chadi No, it's cool. We can allow both guard pulling and daki age.

[@juyama7489]

Lu Huang I would say the same but it’s a concern for safety when it comes to daki age. There should also be a standard for passivity called if guard is used. The standards in judo and bjj for that are very different so there’s still that compromise to make too.

[@smb264]

I think the judo team vs bjj team is a great concept and can foster more judokas to work on their ne waza & bjj-kas to work on their throws/grappling but can aggravate the judo vs bjj debate. Honestly, I hope it doesn't since judo & bjj are so complementary to one another esp since judokas are spending less and less time working on their ground work... It would be amazing to see Shohei Ono work on his ne waza & be a beast on the ground as well! hahaha

[@Chadi]

Seeing him (Ono) against Kron would be legendary

[@MegaBeitar]

Your idea Is Amazing! The ruleset would be Like the uww grappling gi rules? You Like uww grappling?

[@Chadi]

Gi and 20 minutes like helio and Kimura

[@regdiag5355]

Can you please put the link of the interview you had?

[@Chadi]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/gaWvZmx6octjbq8

[@rashidmartialarts9513]

Well done :)

[@Chadi]

Thank you Rashid! I appreciate it

[@EHirsh]

i believe that was an osoto gari like the one did by yamashita in this video kzbin.info/www/bejne/mZ7JfaOsqNd-pJY but probabbly was neither of both, it was a competition variant, an adaptation to the situation probably based in his tukui waza osoto gari

[@Chadi]

A hybrid of both i think

[@EHirsh]

@@Chadi i agree

[@bjj.beyond.podcast]

jiu jitsu, bjj, judo… we're one! 💞

[@fernandohsantos]

The "Kimura/Gracie Cup" is a great idea, but selling it would be difficult. Perhaps the name would have to be changed, but that's no problem, but I don't think Olympic and world-class Judo athletes would risk themselves to get injured, or even dedicate time to preparing for those matches unless there was a huge incentive. And that would be not only an interesting prize in money but also some sort of recognition from both IJF and IBJJF. In addition, for it to be profitable, it would have to be shown on pay-per-view, and this is a problem because usually new and specific rules are set for this situation, which may change the martial aspect (even Judo suffers a lot from this influence). A good idea, but perhaps the starting point to do it right would be an approximation between IJF and IBJJF, and I have no idea of how to influence that.

[@Chadi]

Put it on UFC fight pass and it will sell like crazy

[@juelvanhaekruder8274]

In that fight, Kimura destroyed and was far superior to Hélio, but we also should not belittle or joke with Hélio Gracie. Both should be a source of pride for practitioners of Judo and Jiu Jitsu.

[@Chadi]

Indeed

[@initdialog]

The problem with the KG Cup would be the rules. ADCC, Submission only, No gi, too or only gi? Judo guys would better invest a lot in all the forbidden throws and locks. There is a lot to learn. Judo would be at the disadvantage if going straight to the ground isn't forbidden. So BJJ grapplers would just eliminate one problem of the equation and concentrate on their strengths.

[@Chadi]

The rules need to be studied for sure

[@darrenlovell1584]

any links to the podcast?

[@Chadi]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/gaWvZmx6octjbq8

[@darrenlovell1584]

thanks

[@MrManda007]

What kind of rules you would propose? I think sub only would be most realistic but in that case, BJJ guys will have advantage. Look at the first Polaris they try to make similar things.

[@Chadi]

Gi, sub only, 20 mimutes, no guard pulling, the team with the most wins will win,

[@marty6522]

Throws should count. They're effective techniques if done with force on a hard surface!

[@tomwalker389]

I still can't tell the difference between Ashi Guruma and O Guruma.

[@Chadi]

O guruma the foot is parallel to uke's waist, ashi guruma the foot is at a 45 degree angle and it can be done on the side of uke, o guruma on the front and in the waist level

[@tomwalker389]

Chadi Thanks, big guy. 💪🏻

[@stunnlocke4129]

Helio never slipped out the choke chadi do more research please. kimura choked helio out, and was confirmed by helio in an interview later. Kimura didnt know he was passed out and switched on him. The mats were also soft, not judo mats or helio would of got knocked out by slams nonstop for 10 mins

[@jeffclausef]

Toma aí, Hélio Grace. Levou um pau de Kimura. Ehhehehehe

[@PurushNahiMahaPurush]

Helio said that Kimura almost choked him out in the first few minutes of the match so much so that he had blood coming out of his ears. Kimura then stopped to check on Helio if he was OK. They still continued the match after that. There is nothing more humbling in grappling than the mat. For all the shit talk of the Gracies they did prior (Helio even brought a coffin for the theatrics implying that he was going to bury Kimura there lol), he got absolutely humbled on the mat. Helio is a legendary fighter nevertheless but the Gracies were and are assholes.

[@Chadi]

Truth

[@henrikg1388]

Your idea is awesome, but then there's the IJF...

[@Chadi]

Unfortunately

[@Iloveyounot]

I don't want to take anything away from Helio Gracie, but it's obvious that Kimura was far superior than Gracie. Both in technique and strength.

[@dankalashnikov8202]

I think a "gracie - Kimura cup" it's giving to brazilian grappling a place and importance that it doesn't deserve, after all these yeras of profit and degradation of martial arts spirit, I wouldn't even consider it to be part of the roster. However if this would take place to proof something that has been proved since the beginning, it should be representing OLD SCHOOL TRADITIONAL JUDO, not olympic Judo. And the original brazilian grappling, not the mix of technics from different martial arts they have been stolen since the beginning. Traditional Judo must be back where it belongs, back on top.

[@donnyholman1547]

Try to contact Patrick McArthy from K.u.

[@dontwalkdontrun]

University of Kansas?

[@abc80s74]

Awesome idea make a collaboration with Robert drysdale make it happen throw that idea out to him

[@Chadi]

I mentioned it to him, he absolutely loved it

[@delwynelau9979]

the devil is in the details but great thought though!

[@Chadi]

Thank you Delwyne

[@edmonddorki8126]

Those MF of IJF fucked up the original Judo! Avoiding kinshi waza and leg grab!

[@ustazofficial3612]

Your channel is Amazing lebnany ?

[@Chadi]

Yes

[@ustazofficial3612]

@@Chadi Alf Mabrouk

[@sergioluisflorianobarbosa7113]

Não da pra entender o Kimura era fantástico conseguiu finalizar um grande lutador de newasa porém perdeu para um lutador muito fraco rickdozan

[@kingsman8475]

On this day, the judoka was superior!

[@FrankDisco86]

Only the Gracies would take a complete and total ass whuppin and spin it as a win for them because Kimura didn’t straight up murder Helio’s arrogant fascist ass.

[@kristopherpichon2170]

ie. Kato

[@maitrekano]

wow what a great idea , in your opinion do the judokas would do well ? i my self i think that if its in a real tatami the judokas will smash the bjj guys and that would put the end on the superiority of bjj . but maybe its just wishfull thinking , what do you think ?

[@Chadi]

First rule is guard pulling is prohibited

[@maitrekano]

@@Chadi i think they could allowed guard pulling but the judokas should allowed to slam , that would make them think before pulling guard .

[@Chadi]

@@maitrekano yes if you allow hikikomi you should allow daki age

[@1_Bad_Z]

Catch Wrestling Team vs Judo Team vs BJJ Team

[@FP19487]

I hope you do the story about Gracie cowardly gang up and beat a wrestler coz he challenged them and they are too scared to reply. Low Bitches even gone to jail for it. Weird the grandsons never PROUDLY mention that anywhere.

[@Gonosen]

Great video and very informative 👍 Check out 32 battalion you tube channel as he has videos of no gi judo v bjj v catch.

[@Chadi]

Will do