Chaos Space Marines in Warhammer 40K 10th Edition - Full Index Rules, Datasheets + Launch Detachment

Let's talk through Index Chaos Space Marines, all the datasheets and the Slaves to Darkness detachment...
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0:00 Intro
0:24 Contents
2:40 Dark Pacts
4:57 Cult Marines and Allies
6:29 Slaves to Darkness and Chaos Marks
9:05 Stratagems
14:33 Enhancements
18:41 Datasheet Changes
20:25 Armoury
21:19 Chaos Space Marine Infantry
34:18 Cultists, Renegades + Mutants
44:22 Vehicles and Daemon Engines
58:35 Fortification
1:00:02 Generic Characters
1:15:28 Epic Heroes
1:26:37 Cult Marines
1:29:06 Closing Thoughts

[@auspextactics]

CORRECTION: Chosen can also advance, shoot and charge built in as well. Guess they'll be running around the board pretty quickly!

[@davidteel7701]

I was coming here to post this. Bring a Master of Possessions and a Master of Executions, and they are going to scream up the board and absolutely body any characters they come across.

[@chaosgodcs]

And is it a typo where it says Chosen can swap their BOLT PISTOL for a combi weapon?

[@robertmccann9631]

Here is my question can the special ability of the unit also apply to the characters they are with. If I pair my warlord Fabius with a chosen squad he gives them +1 S +1 T (the strength buff is now meaningless due to the S being linked to the weapon on a side note) he can also ignore wounds once a turn. Can the chosen advance and charge with fabius and get those benefits? Its not clear and if they can't why would you link characters?

[@Mist9877]

Can chosen charge out of a rhino after a normal move disembark? If so, does the SLA strat also allow this?

[@Babyluigikarting]

@@chaosgodcs I just came across this. It seems stupid for them for them to walk around with a bolter AND a combi-bolter, but it seems that it's possible, rules as written.

[@JohnSmith-tv9ou]

Last time I was this early, Horus had a guardsman stand between him and the Emperor.

[@JakeDogg-RIP]

Too early bro, we all know Horus ONLY became a legend after Erebus taught him the truth! 😉🍻😂🥰

[@OEFarredondo]

If it wasn't for that dang guardsman....

[@YlvaTheValkyrie]

I'm really glad it seems there's no limit on how many cultists you can bring. Renegades & Heretics live on in spirit!

[@BigBoyBillSneed]

I'm very excited, I really did not care for the "mere mortals" rule in 9th

[@CMTechnica]

Cultists are capped at 6 with battleline. Traitor Guard at 3, because they lack that keyword.

[@YlvaTheValkyrie]

@@CMTechnica me, flooding the board with 120 cultists, causing my opponent to get up and leave as soon as the shooting phase starts

[@Morhgoz]

@@CMTechnica Still, you could flood the table with lot of bodies if you wield 120 cultists, 30 traitor guard ( plus possible few commissars and ogryns), 30 beastmen and 48 accursed cultists. Will have to wait the points to really know how viable that is...

[@lordofgarbageprogenitoroft4147]

The only chaos army with rights is abbadon, 5 bolt pistol and chainsword legionaries, and 120 blokes he picked up on the way to assault a heavily reinforced position. A logical step forwards from the csm boarding patrol and the pinnacle of skillful and talented list construction.

[@Alaric11]

I really like the chaos undivided stuff. I don't feel gimped for not wanting to pledge my night lords to a dark god.

[@terminatoruk4921]

Yup - my thoughts exactly on this. Plus super-easy to remember - like having a pocket SM captain on every unit! So much for less re-rolls in this edition, I think it's totally the opposite now!

[@dr.feelgoodmalusphillips2475]

About damn time their rules came back!

[@Fuerto203]

Undivided daemon princes are back and I am so happy

[@AlexanderMharcei]

I feel like Chaos Marines have finally split off from their loyalist brethren. This index feels completely different than "marines with spikey bits." Also, thank you for the in-depth video - it takes a ton of work and it's appreciated.

[@JordanR]

Yeah. We're worse in almost every aspect except melee.

[@cristhianmlr]

We don't talk about Spikey Bits around here.

[@RSBurgener]

I appreciate what you said at the top of the video. It's affected me quite a bit. I got back into this game because I was passionate about wanting to illustrate the Iron Warriors Legion and bring them to life. I didn't realize I was opening myself up to a world of hurt and frustration! But I'm going to approach this index with an open mind and hope there's something that helps me with my big goal. GW seems to hamper my efforts more than they've helped me flesh out the thing they themselves created. But maybe there's a corner of the mega-faction I can work with.

[@davidballs2400]

The chosen datasheet allows them to shoot and charge when advancing as well, not just when falling back

[@NecroGoblin-yl2fx]

well in theory you can now make a mixed army from 4 factions :D Chose CSM 2000pts, get up to 500pts Daemons, up to 500pts of either DG, TS or WE and a Chaos Knight :D it will barely have any army rules, but you can do it.

[@spoonsrattling]

did auspex miss that chosen can ADVANCE AND CHARGE?

[@mikaelfarstrand5382]

Looks like it.

[@terminatoruk4921]

Wow awesome spot - I just read that as fall back, shoot and charge like Tyranid Warriors. That's pretty great then - essentially gives all their weapons the Assault keyword as well as being able to charge - literally no need to ever not advance with them

[@mikoajpietrych6168]

posessed with that Undivided Strat seem nice as well

[@AlunDowdeswell]

really good of them to make the same strategems for CSM that SM have, but double the cost. Classic gw

[@MightyGachiman]

I would argue that marks (if cheap) allow CSM a huge amount of customization for free. We can spike damage at will with pacts/marks and that's crazy strong. Fishing for damage was never this easy. A bit finnicky because we're layering rules here, but i'm living for the customization. All we need is a generic lord with flight who can go with raptors and my shivered black night lord heart will be satisfied.

[@AlunDowdeswell]

@@MightyGachiman pacts have their own cost in backfiring, and marks will probably cost points - if they were free I'd agree with you, but it's like saying 'yeah but SM get oath of moment' These strats should be the same cost, because they're the same strat. they don't require balance

[@UnknownEntity334]

Tau have feel no pain 6+ as their stratagem. But I feel you. The nevrom lokust beat primarchs for 10x less points

[@giovanni4247]

Turns out marks are free my dude

[@ollieclark2808]

A Chaos Lord with Mark of Khorne and the Talisman of Burning Blood, after using Dark Pact is an absolute monster. Once per game the Hammer/fist is getting 6+D3 attacks, S9+D3, -3AP, 3 damage. Woof!

[@scotiansaint5679]

And don’t forget about is 5+ Khorne pact buff!!

[@thornthallid950]

Talisman replaces the 5+ buff, sadly

[@marc-antoineroussel7515]

and with a exalted champion in the same unit +d3 S again and +1 hit so you can take the hammer and keep 2+

[@marc-antoineroussel7515]

@@thornthallid950 no the talisman replace the +1A and S by +d3 if you make a dark pact. The "instead" is not for 5+ khorne

[@mrmcjeff385]

possessed, even having lost an attack each, look like they can become really troublesome if you don't focus them down now, even more so than in 9th - 5+ invuln save - 6+ FNP and +1" advance and +1" charge when MoP is attached - dark pact can give them exploding 6 hit rolls - dark pact also gives possessed devastating wounds which is mortal wounds on any wound roll of 6 - everything can now take chaos marks which is new for possessed - the slaanesh mark will change the exploding 6 to exploding 5+ - the slaanesh mark also lets one of the stratagems allow them to advance and charge

[@G-Squared_99]

Kinda stinks Vashtorr came out the way he did. Would have expected a similar glow up like the Lion, not actually LOSING some of his utility. Shame.

[@davidcox6454]

I know right I don’t see what the point of taking him is a demon prince is just better. He looks badass though

[@BreakerBeat]

I was absolutely certain that Vashtorr, being almost a chaos god, would get the Lion glowup. Not necessarily Primarch level, and of course still more niche with vehicles, but never had I thought he would be WORSE than 9th. He wasn't picked because his abilities were bad, his damage were bad and he died easily. Now he has arguably worse abilities, dies even faster, and of course got hit by the fly nerf as well. Absolutely the biggest letdown of the index, and quite baffling that GW won't make him even somewhat viable so people buy the model. It's not exactly cheap for a single model, I'd assume GW would want people to buy him.

[@poggestfrog]

@@BreakerBeat his abilities are disgusting(but not in a good way). I'm hoping the Army of Renown rules gives him a crit hit on 4+ aura or something to make up for it.

[@icklemoo]

yeah he is just a pile of shit pretty much .. at least could have given him some better AP in his hammer and maybe a choice of aura buffs to pick like increase str , or increase AP or + 1 to save for vehicles ... plus some durability more wouldn't have gone amiss Instead of seeing him debuff a vehicle with -1 attack , would have been far more lore friendly and fruity if they gave him , hack enemy vehicle for a phase with attacks or melee ...

[@elnicko4189]

Started looking for some fun combos and found one I REALLY like The setup: Make sure these all are UNDIVIDED MARKED Chaos Lord (Lord of Chaos ability give a free strat to him/his unit) with Daemon Hammer as well as the Liber Hereticus enhancement (grants BOTH sustained and lethal hits) 10 legionaries (8 with chainswords, 1 with heavy chain weapon, 1 with accursed weapon) they receive +1 to wound off of objective from the Veterans of The Long War ability Land Raider (for assault ramp) And the strat Profane Zeal which grants full reroll to hit and wound to Undivided units Launch this into something scary and wreak havoc, in particular THIRTY NINE TAKEN WOUNDS against marine equivalents. If you roll a tad lucky you’re literallly dropping 20 marines, even without the Lord you’re getting 31 wounds taken

[@callumlogan4874]

Did some testing that's nasty af

[@johnsmith970]

Extra spice: put mark of Nurgle on the Land Raider and use Dark Obscuration on it so they can't be shot from outside 12 inches.

[@viewtifuljoe4412]

Not a fan currently of the Chosen not being able to have plasma guns, flamers or meltas with their bolters, but hey its all cool. Chosen kick ass.

[@willlondon4964]

There was a part in Angel Exterminatus where an iron hands squad with plasma and melta guns deploy out of a Rhino as a kind of "Primarch kill team" to try and kill Perturabo. I always though that's kind of what chosen are is a kill team with a specific mission. Still great models and everything. But four flamers or Melta guns was fun

[@MightyGachiman]

They're basically chaos sternguard/vanguard mashed now. Which is still pretty flexible. I will miss splitting my shots though though :(

[@James80312]

GW said "fuck combi weapons, theyre just too complicated and add too much bloat". But then added tons of other shit in other areas :/

[@viewtifuljoe4412]

@@James80312 It was the bitching and complaining fans who said it was too complex. GW with everything they are doing are just complying.

[@JordanR]

@@viewtifuljoe4412 Who even said that? Theyre the same plasma/melta/flamer profiles that are found elsewhere.

[@LordyT34]

If your planning to start a CSM army, always remember NES Never Enough Spikes

[@Morhgoz]

I tend to do that with me Goffz too...

[@friendlytalbot4050]

29:34 I'd like to add that Raptors received a hidden buff in being able to take upgrades on two models for every 5 models, as opposed to only being able to take upgrades on 2 models only. Meaning, you can have 4 plasma pistols or special weapons in a squad of 10 (2 per 5 models), as opposed to being restricted to 2.

[@willlondon4964]

I think their special rules aren't as good as the marine reroll charges and Evisceratos or skyclaws doing mortal wounds on the charge, But four plasma pistols is solid reliable extra damage

[@friendlytalbot4050]

@@willlondon4964 I was thinking of going in with 4 plasma guns or 4 melta guns for some shenanigans. Even just dropping in with 4 flamers could be scary. Maybe not exactly competitive, but the mobility seems useful to me.

[@willlondon4964]

@@friendlytalbot4050 I think four flamers could be really useful for attacking your enemies home objective. As they are often poorly defended with a minimum strength unit and often in cover. Four meltas hiding behind a wall near an objective would really put of someone with a dreadnough or knight plodding towards it. Both good options IMO

[@friendlytalbot4050]

@@willlondon4964 Exactly. Although I also had in mind of using plasma guns for mobile firepower, since they can drop within rapid fire range. But four flamers probably fulfil that role better. I just decided against that because I had already built a group of bikers with flamers for that exact purpose way back in 8th edition. 🤔

[@willlondon4964]

@@friendlytalbot4050 I think CSM have a lot of units that can have plasma, but not so many with a 12 inch move / deepstrike so I would be thinking what would make the most out of those abilities if I am taking Raptors. I always think what does this unit want to do and can another unit do it better? Say if you want anti infantry deepstrike and get the opponents objective you could take Tzeentch Flamers or Pink Horrors... Pink horrors have 4++ and split and higher OC so are more tanky. But flamers auto hit and ignore cover. Where as say 4 meltas moving 12 per turn you can't get somewhere else. If I'm thinking four plasma gun's to kill medium infantry would a Vindicator be better? Or a fast moving melee unit like warp talons who also get a 5++ or Blood crushers? Versatile units are versatile but they loose that bit of focus. I personally prefer each unit to have a specific focus or objective in the game. Because my first army was Biel tan aspect warriors back in 5th edition. I have generally found having a focus was better than versatility. Really long answer I know but hope that helps

[@clompers1396]

A good thing about the Dark Commune is that the Mindwich model(Psyker) does not have the character keyword so you just go full blast the whole time with him and if he rolls a one on that hazard roll he only blows himself up, not the character D3. "For each roll of 1, that test is failed and one model in that unit equipped with a Hazardous weapon is destroyed"

[@rtl97]

Good time to be an iron warriors player. Bulk heavy support coming up and a terminator lord that is tougher than my death guard lords 😢

[@Morhgoz]

Also good options for mortal chaff to drive to enemy gunlines...

[@friendlyneighbourhoodsunwheel]

I'm excited to see what they end up doing for nightlords whenever they get their codex

[@Dragonking1411]

I’m fairly excited to try this out. Currently thinking about a Termi/Abaddon blob with Nurgle marks deep striking. Seems like it would be a good melee threat/distraction and they would be fairly tough. My other thought is havoc squads crowded around a helbrute and making a firing squad.

[@Dragonking1411]

Then if you add the nurgle enhancement they are a bigger melee threat

[@willlondon4964]

I would love a Abbadon walking prince and hellbrute araus on three squads of havoks

[@Lomhow]

I have the units to do this... thank you for the idea

[@nightsage217]

I really like nurgle terminators idea with termi lord. U can cast CP0 dark obscuration to protect terminators. Sustained hit 5+ for nurgle dark pact is just incredible with combi-weapon. Also, with how lethal hits work, 3 venomcrawler & 3 forgefiend can fish with 72 dices without paying attention to enemy's toughness. It's retarded, but lascannon only hits around str12. It will be an uphill battle for chaos to get close to hit T12+ models. But It's just how csm works most of the time.

[@BreakerBeat]

@@Dragonking1411 You can't add that with Abaddon, though.

[@StoryCircle12]

Thank you, been waiting for this all day. Looking forward to listening to this on my drive home from work. Keep up the great content!

[@lazycouch1]

55 seconds ago wow cute timing. I was just looking this up. Thanks for linking the download that helps. I was curious. I'm going to try to make my own book and laminate the pages.

[@forgotmynamification]

Do it!

[@DarrinSK]

Reaper chain cannon with darkpacts sounds pretty cool. 8 shots is a lot to toss out and fish.

[@willlondon4964]

With an Abbadon reroll aura and Hellbrute buff on the side 😋

[@dmitrykhvostik5975]

This plus mark of Nurgle, plus terminator sorc -1Ap bonus, plus Helbrute near by is a helluva dakka Also this may be a bug but through Helbrute, according to wording, you can get BOTH abilities exploding on 5+: >Nurgle havoc choose SH1 dark pact rule >It says if you chose SH1 rule all your crits are on 5+ >And now you get LH rule then from Helbrute aura Since all your crits are on unmodified 5+ due ability choice, your dakka also get autowound on 5+

[@GLevario12]

I think they'll probably errata Plague, Rubric, Zerker's to have Dark Pacts. They went through the effort to change their factions to Heretic Astartes from their respective armies. I feel like so far a handful of things were overlooked getting these temporary rules out.

[@DJCallidus]

Thousand Sons detachment rule already gives a choice of (Sustained Hits), (Lethal Hits) or (Devestating Wounds) army wide for no risk of mortal wounds.

[@williampounds5191]

@@DJCallidus He's not talking about Thousand Sons. He's talking about using the ability to ally in Rubric Marines in THIS army with THIS detachment. Also Thousand Son's detachment ability doesn't give boltguns those keywords, only PSYCHIC weapons.

[@xlightingedgex]

yeah the way dark pacts is worded it just says heretic astartes get the ability and on the lost and damned rule it say that the cult marines become heretic astartes so it kinds of already reads like they should get it at least that's how I'd play them till an errata clarifies it

[@BreakerBeat]

@@xlightingedgex It does not say that at all. It says if your Army Faction is Heretic Astartes, then each unit with the Dark Pact ability can use it. So you need Dark Pact on the datasheet, and it isn't for rubric, plague or berzerkers. Nowhere does it say being Heretic Astartes somehow grants you the Dark Pact ability. So using it on your Plague, Rubric or Berzerkers would be straight up cheating.

[@DJCallidus]

@@williampounds5191 Yeah my bad. I misunderstood the interaction. Could be due to CSMs having greater unit variety.

[@richmcgee434]

57:25 The Lord of Skulls can trigger mass battleshock during either fight phase. If it happens during the enemy turn the shock is going to last a meaningful amount of time, and the thing's footprint for that 6" test radius is enormous. If nothing else turning off strats on part of the enemy army ought to help some, and it's not like you need to jump through any hoops to use the ability - it wants to be in the middle of a big scrum anyway, and it'll certainly kill units regularly.

[@stephenrepper8118]

You missed that Chosen can shoot and charge after advancing as well as falling back, makes them very good in my opinion as you can acceas that rule on them without being Slaanesh and then use the strat on a seoarate Slaanesh unit to get it more than once per turn. Expect these guys in a Rhino will be a popular choice

[@Autechltd]

Thanks for covering this. Its nice to watch right after the Tactical Tortoise index livestream.

[@amusician1771]

Field Possessed as chaos undivided, choose sustained hits dark patch for extra hits and gains access to dev wounds, use profane zeal stratagem for 1CP to fully re-roll the hit AND the wound.. Unless I’m missing something. A simple pack of 5 possessed has the ability to kill the lion in one fight phase 😅 Not to mention Tzeentch obliterators and the skin shift stratagem!

[@CLDJK152]

Thank you for restating the definitions of lethal hits and sustained hits when encountering them, there are many keywords and I don't remember what they all mean.. It can be frustrating to watch a video like this without this knowledge and it this quick refresher is really nice.

[@yerauldda4909]

I'm happy - Abaddon, terminators and possessed are still great, accursed cultists rule, there's good reason to take a Helbrute, and a deep striking, death hexing termie sorcerer will be fun. 2cp armour of contempt seems like a deliberate insult, although the fact that a Lord can give it to his legionnaires for 0cp every battle round does take the edge off.

[@davidcox6454]

I don’t think terminators are that good chosen are way better st least they updated the terminators to have a 4+ invul was five when they first released the index

[@yerauldda4909]

@@davidcox6454 all depends on points - chosen are fine but Abaddon can lead terminators, give them all the marks including nurgle so they can't be shot and just have a really good time

[@franespinosa4686]

Combi weapons look great in termies with sustained hits and rerrols to hit it averages a mortal wound per termie in shooting against infantry, which is nice chip damage, while combi bolters with rerroll to hit and lethal hits will be ok against most things

[@sparkiesparkles]

If youve noticed, soul grinders have the daemon and vehicle keywords too, so they synergise with vashtorr. Not sure how competitive itll be, but would be fun and fluffy to run

[@willlondon4964]

Really excited for Chaos now !!! I love GW seeing chaos as one faction now makes the army so much more versatile I can really see players taking knights and Daemons regularly. Daemons particularly can add great deep strike options and Bloodthirster because why not ?? Can really go for a horde mode with all the cultists as well as legionnaires and Daemon units ... Not sure it would be good but you could try it

[@Nonpain]

yea but having them limited to points like the strike force having max 500p of deamons in a CSM team surely will kill some of my list like my Disciples of Be'lakor which had 1200p of CSM and 800p of Deamons which isn't possible anymore and also you can't have a warlord from the daemonic pact and Be'lakor must be warlord that means he can't be taken with CSM anymore which shelfs my Disciples of Be'lakor army completly .

[@richmcgee434]

Sigh. Should've sold that painted Gellerpox set when I had the chance. I suppose there's some vague hope for them appearing in the Codex. Or maybe they'll do an "Agents of Chaos" index down the road, seems likely Kill Team will keep spawning oddballs for the faction.

[@gloriouspacenoid]

Gonna use the bigger ones as Death Guard Chaos Spawn or Beasts of Nurgle, myself.

[@kinnairdclan]

Don't sleep on those Chosen. Their rule allows shoot and charge even after Advancing, not just fall back. Advance each turn with impunity. Pair it with a MoP for speedy Chosen!

[@dmitrykhvostik5975]

Seems good, IMO. Not broken, not weak. Just good. Termie Sorcerer is auto-include option for every roster now. TLord with Slaanesh upgrade and Tzeentch free heal strat will be a pain to kill MoP is scary against the most of characters and with possessed is a nightmare for every enemy psyker that don't have MW FNP Exalted Champ/MoE + Apostle looks like a huge basic buff. Daemon engines look deadly. Time to convert Vashtorr has come it seems. Cult marines can use strats and gain aura bonuses. Better than nothing I think.

[@willlondon4964]

Agreed everything looks solid not having much weak or particularly strong just all solid. I do think chaos is viewed by GW as one faction now. So they expect you to consider taking a shooty knight or blood thirster if you want something big or Daemon flamers to attack your enemies home objective.

[@InternetEntity]

So, a sort of 'combined chaos' army can more or less be 1/4 'Sons, 1/4 Horrors, about 1/4 of Knight, leaving 1/4 of codex CSM... *THAT* is more like it!

[@Yuri77711]

Sure, at the cost of 3/4 of your list not having any army/detachment rules

[@effindave6909]

The plague marines melee output has been nerfed significantly. No more 6 attack damage 2 plague flails, no more damage 3 maces, no more d6 damage cleavers. Also assuming flails are considered haevy plague weapons they also hit on 4's instead of 3's. As I've been screaming all along Death Guard got hosed to the extreme. Don't even get me started on the Mortarion nerfs.

[@Nonpain]

DG all in all seems pretty bad now , sadly .

[@jarthegiraffe3303]

One thing about Vashtorr. In 9th edition, it specified that he couldn’t use his aura to buff titanic daemon vehicles, but it no longer specifies in this video or the 40K app. This might mean a Khorne Lord of Skulls can be synergized with him unless I’m missing some fine print that says otherwise

[@Ghost11720]

Are you going to be doing a Index Space Wolves video?

[@Temsson]

Yep, waiting for this too

[@thegamerandfriends6597]

pact of flesh was so much fun i just had 3 squads of termies running around that just kept standing back up

[@darko-man8549]

The forge world change to chaos is another classic middle finger from GW Too lazy to balance units or too greedy to want money at FW

[@dr.feelgoodmalusphillips2475]

So happy Chaos Undivided rules & relics are back after it was retconned and then deretconned.

[@terminatoruk4921]

3 Chaos Lord in power armour questions: 1) If he joins Chosen, does that basically mean he gets their advance / fall-back + short & charge ability? 2) What does doubling up on 2 of same melee weapon do (e.g. 2 power fists, 2 hammers, 2 chainswords etc...) - looks from the rules it'd do nothing? 3) Why no jump pack GW? ....common this is just mean now :(

[@9ballbreaker]

The index definitely helps being aspiring champions easy since now it's just genetic combi weapon and genetic accursed weapon. The chosen kit now can make discount lords and champions reliably

[@PoolNoodleGundam]

Helbrute gun castle is going to be a thing, methinks. With the shooting marks, you can surround a Helbrute with Havocs, Obliterators, and/or Forgefiends all getting lethal hits AND sustained hits on a 5+

[@MelniaShadow]

Also Venomcrawler

[@willlondon4964]

Also Abbadon rerolls or 4++'s and walking prince -1 to hit

[@Drachnyen07]

I may not be a fan of the new CSM rules or 19th for the most part, but Auspex makes it better when he talks about it, keep it up

[@callumhook9903]

Thanks heaps again auspex!

[@Metalmachine18]

Squad of 4 Obliterators with mark of Tzeentch getting lethal hits at 5+ and regenning with skinshift could be very fun to upset people

[@ForceM1782]

Profane Zeal on an Obliterator or Havoc Unit with aso one of the Pacts looks pretty insane tbh

[@darthquado]

I was waiting for a video to drop not a movie lol keep up the great work man and take a vacation lol

[@andrewbakescakes9684]

How does attaching Abaddon to a unit of Undivided Legionnaires work? Do they have access to all the the special Mark specific bonus effects of the stratagems, since Abby has every Mark, or are they locked to the basic effect?

[@MarcinObuchowski]

I think they do have access to all, as you only check for keyword in unit, not per model.

[@andrewbakescakes9684]

@@MarcinObuchowski - You are right. I reread the sentence: Each time a unit with one of these keywords makes a Dark Pact, it gains the associated benefit until the end of the phase. This actually has me thinking the unit Abby is leading gains ALL of the benefits for each Dark Pact, since he has all of the marks. Is there anything saying otherwise?

[@cango8415]

Pretty cool stuff. Only things i fond lacking is Lord Disco is not having a +4 invul or some other means of defensive outside of slaanesh item , obliterators having their melee weapon str going to 9 from 10 and havocs having no option for leaders except warp smith which is weird.

[@rtl97]

Havocs dont need a leader. Stick them backfield objective, dark pact for sustained hits and then either chaos undivided or mark of nurgle and have a good time. Could also stick either a chaincannon, bolter or autocannon squad in some terrain 3" minimum off the ground for +1 ap to their attacka

[@davidcox6454]

Yeah the lord discordant just isn’t really good anymore. Chaos seems vastly weaker than space marines in terms of abilities and data sheets and leaders.

[@cango8415]

Having options wouldnt hurt. Especially most of the time every csm hq can only join either Legionaries or Chosen.

[@davidcox6454]

@@cango8415 look at the other chaos legions terminators they are literally better in every way and the characters that can attach to them basically give them our detachment rules or just better abilities than our leaders. Without abbadon out terminators are just kind of sad compared to others. Abbadon is good but I don’t play black legion so I am not taking him and our terminators already get rerolls so his one good ability isn’t even useful on them. I thought they made these all st the same time I don’t get the disparity. Every other faction has cool abilities on their data sheets ours just seem really basic and tone me down I guess maybe because of dark pacts but all the other armies released so far can easily get those abilities as well so not sure what is special about chaos space marines

[@ThijsSchrijnemakers]

Thanks for the thorough review! Comment for the Skull Throne

[@Roeland666]

Looking forward to the Death Guard one. Their rules are utter trash. So it should be a fun video!

[@cypher1019]

What is the strongest CSM combo for you guys right now? • 10 Possessed with a MoP upgraded with Liber Hereticus all Undivided and use of Profane Zeal to get buckets of mortals. • 10 Possessed (9 "M) with one MoP as Slaanesh and UNNATURAL SWIFTNESS to run across the field Advance+1 and Charge +1 • Tzeentch Obliterator - For 1 CP you heal 3 wounds on this unit AND reanimate 1 dead Obliterator with 5 wounds (and LETHAL HITS at +5) • Nurgle Obliterator to hide it from shots from 12'' and melt them down at half distance • Helbrute with Havoc's chaincannon (32 shots) as a Tzeentch to get lethal AND sustained hits at +5 • Nurgle Terminators with Termi Lord cast on 0CP Dark Obscuration to protect Terminators and shoot them down with combi weapons

[@regenking6907]

After what was a disappointing 9th edition release, seeing the fun ways you can build your army despite the simplification of the puts a smile on my face. I really hope other armies can have the same kind of freedom in their builds in the future.

[@dalakhsarothal9624]

Did you catch that chosen can fall back but also advance and shoot/charge ? It's pretty nice not having to rely on being Slaanesh for that. You can make them Khorne of Nurgle instead.

[@fernandozavaletabustos205]

Thank you for your hard work!

[@DaniMol]

There's a VERY good reason why Armour of Contempt is more expensive for Chaos Marines, their armour is much shittier as it is not constantly repaired and maintained due to lack of resources. From a game point of view, they are much more aggressive, any defensive buff has to be more expensive to not make them good at both attack and defence

[@robertmccann9631]

So after reading through the Codex and watching this video I am perplexed. I assumed that 10th was going to be making it easier to understand/play but with every unit having their own special ability the bloat is insane already. Playing a 2,000 point game can easily now take me 4hs with setup and setdown, this will make it longer. The lack of AP is also going to make combats last longer, if I charge a terminator squad with power weapons there saving on 4+ and I could be saving on 4+, it just feels sloggy. From what I have seen still not sure who 10th is for it hasnt simplified it, the games could be slower and most shooting weapons are likely to be wounding on a 5+. It is all very strange.

[@darko-man8549]

Armour of contempt is more expensive for chaos than loyalists?! Based on what? GW wanting to sell loyalists?

[@silentascari2180]

A bit sad as an EC player. (First and only army atm). I do look forward to picking up some allies though. Demons look fun.

[@WladcaPodziemia]

I really like Chosen as unit and as models - i'm considering fielding 10 of them with either Fabius, or ealted champion, getting Rhin for them to deliver it into close range shooting, then charge into melee.

[@chrisbingley]

The idea of having a Helbrute supporting a unit with the Mark of Khorne is very appealing. Mine is modelled with two fists, so it's going to want to be up close and personal anyway.

[@ChildishDegree]

Fun combo I noticed was running 10 possessed as undivided to make use of profane zeal and get buckets of mortals.

[@PapaTom.]

The winged daemon prince with the orbs of unlife make a hysterical ballistic missile of a unit. Just deep strike and send it off into a group of your opponent's most valuable squads

[@mireadur]

Does Fabius negate one wound from their bodyguard or only forhimself and the chirurgeon acolyte? Doesnt look clear from the wording of the rule. EDIT: i just read bodyguards and leader are treated as a single unit for all rules purposes, so i guess this clears it up.

[@F0RS00TH]

This index really demonstrates just how insufficient the "Detachments" method of building subfactions is. As an Emperor's Children player, I cannot even really self-impose a fluff army. The army index is built from the ground up with the need to take multiple Chaos gods. I will still always limit myself to Slaanesh, just because I care more about my fluff than crunch, but I will have almost no options from this index. I have only two full-power stratagems and a whopping ONE enhancement I can use.

[@CMTechnica]

I feel that in my bones as an Iron Warriors fan. Might as well just start from scratch and paint up some word bearers since that’s about as fluffy as you’ll get with these rules

[@tommywilliams9497]

Hopefully the lack of slaanesh options is because they're getting their own book this edition but I'm probably just huffing insane amounts of copium.

[@scolack123]

Codex release in august?

[@tommywilliams9497]

@@scolack123 definitely not that soon, maybe next year?

[@joshsmith1179]

People have been saying EC we'll get a codex this edition. Like we were getting it last edition, and in 8th, and... at this point, until GW announces the codex, I consider EC a non-entity. The codex is being written alongside Half-life 3.🙄

[@farnball1]

I've bought the whole new range of CSM, Cultists & Traitor Guard that GW has released but nothing from the old minis with the exception of the Chaos Rhino. New minis I'm looking forward to seeing in the 10th, Bikers, Raptors, Obliterators, Chaos Dreadnoughts (one can only hope)! By the end of the 10th I'm also expecting Fulgrim and his kinky boys to join the scene...

[@porterhouse7648]

The current obliterators just recently came out (relatively for gw model refreshes)

[@UntestedGaming]

Kind of a kick in the teeth that Lucius is the only character that can join noise marines. Means even if we bring that battle line of 6 big squads, we still can't protect a master of executions, or even a generic chaos lord unless we bring normal legionnaires or chosen (even though chosen look really great)

[@danielmac7738]

Looking forward to seeing your thoughts on the DG index.

[@adonaysalas224]

10 possesed with a MoP upgraded with Liber Hereticus all Undivided is pure terror

[@davidbarsdell6629]

I recently played my first game of 10nth, and really enjoyed it, by far my favourite edition, even if it is a bit wacky here and there, anyways I played the Chaos Space Marines, and WOW dark pact is a life saver, to be honest the entire faction is real good, I would advise new Chaos Space Marine players to use Rubric Marines, Chaos Terminators and Chosen.

[@adamorr6589]

It seems like to me they’re pushing the combat patrol by making the units in the box really solid in the rules. Does make collecting easier tho

[@Lucaeus]

Very useful video indeed!

[@patrickhuffman9632]

Looking through this I see some nasty combos. Crazily a lot of it revolves around hell brutes...

[@richarddixon1450]

Cant believe how fantastic the helbrute buff is. Can't wait to use one. Oh and tzeentch havocs with reaper chain cannons! MUHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHAHAHAHA

[@GM-rs2fv]

LFG Auspix, mad respect!

[@a1steaksauce339]

I’m just not looking forward to 10th, could be just these indexes but the rules seem awful. Stratagem searching is simply gonna be replaced by “oh, what abilities do my weapon have, let me look up what that does”. Daemon princes feel like they’re totally pointless, warp talons lost their charm in comparison to raptors, legions aren’t here, it’s just not a thing I’m looking forward to

[@dustingreene3273]

Same 10th looks like shit all the way around to me.

[@Nicho-gk9tt]

Question, from my interpretation as well as my playgroups, the venomcrawler gets more and more attacks as it kills. So after 1 kill, 7. 2 kills 8. Is this accurate? If not why not?

[@JamesWorkshopMFA]

Rules as written it gains 1 new attack at the end of any phase in which it kills a model. Shooting, Fight, Overwatch, either players turn, one kill is one extra attack ANY phase. Note there are two Excruciator cannons, so one kill is 14 shots, two kills is 16 etc. Could add up fast!

[@willlondon4964]

Doesn't seem to have any restrictions in the index, and it says when it kills a unit...then no cap on up to 3 or 6, like it often does with mortal wounds having a max damage. I personally don't see any reason why the attacks don't stack up... I'm not being biased I don't even own a CSM army

[@Pillsburybroboy420]

Sweet, my non chaos Nightlords just got even harder to play 👍🏼 thanks GW

[@Nonpain]

i feel you , can't even built my disciplines of Be'lakor anymore .

[@Zinkhar]

Then run them with normal marine rules. That's basically what they are.

[@FrstSpctr88]

My only complaint is the lack of freedom with melee weapons. Chainsword or bolter, boxset melee choices. And to some extend lack of icon synergy for cult marines...

[@rutherfordappraisal258]

20 cultists with the rapid fire ranged choice under a dark pact auto-wounding on 6s interests me. Not as a "hey, this is a viable strategy" interest. No, this is more of a "hey, on a good roll this will make three our four very specific individuals yell and throw dice."

[@MarshallWalls-hq9fk]

The thing that´s stopping me from collecting Chaos Space Marines is the fact they are smaller than the imperial marines. I dont understand why did they make the new csm terminators and then made new terminators for the imperium which are true scale. From a lore perspective I can understand Primaris being a bit bigger than normal marines, but it takes away from the fear-factor of the CSM which they absolutely are suppose to be, big scary supersoldiers that worship the dark gods. Now they are just minimarines who are crazy.

[@mikoajpietrych6168]

obliterators plus hellbrute with Nurgle/Thzenezhethch mark seem pretty brutal, although funnily enough it makes the weakest profile completely redundant (as a matter of fact Dark Pacts in general make that profile a bit redundant)

[@NecroGoblin-yl2fx]

just realized that the Gellerpox infected have been removed from all the chaos factions. :(

[@Oldboy82]

They make fantastic Proxys for Accursed Cultist though ! Just bought some

[@NecroGoblin-yl2fx]

@@Oldboy82 interesting, though i would have loved if they where still with the DG. but using them as Accursed could be interesting.

[@rb1092]

No CSM legions…pass for me on 10th it seems

[@VorpalDerringer]

This is the index, not the codex. There will be more detachments in the codexes. 🤨

[@FunnyTaco143]

I would think for the cult marines if it says replace the faction keywords that also means the faction special rule, doesn’t say anywhere they wouldn’t get it.

[@joshuamccarthy3226]

I'm liking the look of this. Still sad that my Mutilators have been consigned to the shelf though. There's a few weird bits here though. Obviously the 2CP for the AoC equivalent is daft. I also think CHAOS UNDIVIDED Leaders should by rights be able to lead God-specific units, but I can see how that might be tricky when it comes to the abilities and Stratagems, as you'd essentially end up giving the unit double the buffs. Also, I'd have to check if this is addressed in the small print of the Lost and the Damned rules, but don't Khorne Berserkers, Rubric Marines, and Plague Marines have BATTLELINE on their datasheets? This makes it even weirder that Noise Marines haven't been given BATTLELINE in this index (without LtE). I think Fabius Bile should be allowed to lead Cultist-type units as well (especially Accursed Cultists). He seems like the sort of Character you'd want in a "mutants" army made up of lots of Accursed Cultists, Possessed, and Chaos Spawn.

[@ghosthawks]

I'll still plan on take my Mutilators as Obliterators in their melee form. :)

[@joshuamccarthy3226]

@Ryan Nintzel I may well do that in more casual games, come to think of it. Still a shame to lose the profile though; I've never understood why we keep Forgefiends and Maulerfiends but not Obliterators and Mutilators.

[@PoolNoodleGundam]

People seem to misunderstand how the god marks work. You don't get critical hits 5+ on your lethal hits/sustained hits pact. You get critical hits 5+ *if* you have the correct pact and the correct phase. Meaning, if for example you are mark of nurgle, having your sustained hits pact active on that unit during the shooting phase, you will be activating devastating wounds or lethal hits on a 5+ as well during the shooting phase! (If you also have those, that is. A Slaanesh possessed unit can have devastating wounds and sustained hits activating on a 5+ at the same time during the fight phase.)

[@Swampert919]

Its only critical hits on a 5+, so it wont interact with devastating wounds as thats a wound roll not a hit roll. So only helps with lethals and sustained hits.

[@attemptedunkindness3632]

Finally! **Opens up one entire case of cultists** It's finally here! **Opens another box of cultists** Mere Mortals is gone you're finally free! Bwahahaha

[@TheLiamcollins101]

When Abaddon is leading his terminators, when they take a leadership test for dark pact. Do they use the 5+ or 6+? I haven't seen an faq addressing this.

[@polus134]

I don't see pistol opttion for havocs, does that mean the champion is baked into the squad as a normal havoc? or are they only a squad of 4?

[@alphaomega938]

So early the Fallen still had rules

[@elrondhoyabembe5736]

Tbh I kinda like these rules Hydra dominatus

[@Morhgoz]

Could make decent Blood Pact army with this too, cultists for Battleline, max traitor guard and beastmen, maybe unit of flesh hounds converted from some other unit to as count as version of those possessed daemon wolf thingies, accursed cultists to present some sort cyber cladiators, maybe termie lord as warlord and unit of termies all mayde from ambots to present some wierd industrial exosuits etc, 3 Mantis tanks scratchbuilded using rules of War Dog Executioners, maybe few converted tanks to represent the lighter traitor tanks using Predator's rules...

[@alphaomega938]

Lotta damage done to ‘your dudes’, miss the days of renegade legions

[@VorpalDerringer]

🤨 There are codexes coming with more detachments.

[@alphaomega938]

Very cool Ty