Charge Your EV ANYWHERE With A Regular 3-Pin Plug! (EV Charging)

[@solentbum]

My first LEAF came with a 3-pin charger (Granny Lead), which I used often in my friends lawnmower socket. The first time I used it at home the simple display indicated indicated a fault with the earth lead of the socket, a simple problem to rectify. Now I occasionally use the Granny Lead during days of bright sunshine to use the surplus power from the Roof PV Panels.

[@BrianSmith-zs5wg]

Although UK sockets are rated for 13A max they are only rated at 10A continuous, that's why the charger should default to a max of 10A

[@ianmac51]

yep, agreed, we use a granny charger due to the fact we live in a rented house. We have a 13 amp socket(with its own RCD and it's own connection to the consumer unit) in the garage with an Energiser Smart Plug £15.00. I ran a cable from this to an outside waterproof socket. The timer is set to come on overnight during the Octopus cheap rate. Car is set to charge to 80% except when know we have a long trip then we go to 100%. BTW, the cable is ran in a straight line. If you want to try an experiment use a reel extension with a thermal trip only extended about 50% and plug the charger in to this; it will trip :)

[@tedmack6516]

Granny chargers should 'choke' the current to 10A. This is to protect the house wiring and socket from long periods of high current. If a component heats up, the resistance increases and the heating increases. Bypassing the current limitation of approved chargers opens you to insurance problems if you have an incident due to the charging. Your electrician should have pointed out potential problems using a standard 13A outlet for long periods of high current use.

[@lmaoroflcopter]

This is not the case. A properly certified plug is rated for 13A continuous maximum current. There is no specified maximum duration given for the 13A specification. The testing is performed at 14A for a duration of 8 hours or until the temperature has stabilised, if a plug passes its considered good for 13A until the cows come home. However, the plug itself isn't the issue. House wiring can be out of spec, sockets can age, leading to increased contact resistance or sloppy connections, circuits can become overloaded. 10A is a good number as it allows for a 20% safety margin below its rated maximum, but a 13A plug is absolutely rated to do 13A all day long, fires and issues however, still occur with 10A You don't need 10A, though, if it's your main charger at home. Mine I have set at 8A, my car is on the driveway for most of the week, so it has plenty of time to charge at that slower rate, further increasing the safety margin it operates at.

[@MarkHewitt1978]

@@lmaoroflcopter I have the choice of 6/8/10A when I park the car and I can usually do a very rough guess in regard to state of charge, when I need the car next etc and the result is nearly always 6 or 8A. As theres no reason not to reduce the stress if I can.

[@PJWey]

@@ianmac51I was in a similar situation and Tough Leads extension and some planning meant about 70% of my charges were off peak in 14k miles in 9 months. So it’s not the best but neither is it the worst. I did change the face plate on my socket as it was old a bit worn out. A fresh socket face only got mildly warm after a really long charge like 10hs.

[@terrymackenzie6784]

The Achilles hell of the UK 13A square pin connector is the fuse (as this generates heat) and the square pins as these wear faster than round pins. Although they are ratted at 13A most electricians would only recommend a continuous load of 10A. You can get excessive heat on worn sockets its not normally the circuit at fault but the socket that needs replacing

[@rogerphelps9939]

You don't need worn sockets to have overheating. I have done that. Just limit the charging current to 10 amps and you will be OK.

[@MrSammotube]

Thanks Dave - you mentioned my situation. My EV charger is not installed (they have been awfully slow), but I have run a cable out of the window and it actually does not take that long to charge - I work from home and I plugged it in during the day and it was done at the end of the day. I could do it overnight. When the charger is installed, it should be just over 3x as quick, which I suppose is a bonus.

[@DrDave_63395]

Dave completely agree. When my wife got her BMW i3 120Ah car back in 2020 for the first month we only had the three pin plug in the garage to charge her car - not an issue as we always got more power added overnight than used during the day. So charging overnight from a 13A socket is practical option. We've now got a Zappi to allow charging at 7kW overnight and to take advantage of excess solar power when available. Oh and we have a Nissan Arriya 87kW in addition to the i3.

[@TheMrMarkW]

I can't have a 7kW charger installed at my house (for multiple reasons including looped supply / cable run / terraced house etc) but I have 3 Pin Sockets in my garage that are relatively new and are EV charger compatible with an RCD. I have a Polestar 2 with a 78kWh (75kWh usable) battery and I've been charging it on the 2.3kW / 10A Volvo charger I bought for the vehicle since I got it. I've had no issues at all charging using this - being on Octopus Go (can't use Intelligent Go as the car nor the charger supports it) I set the scheduler in the vehicle to charge between Midnight & 6am (the cheap 8.5p per kWh tariff is between 00:30 and 05:30) - and if I need the car sooner I just turn off the scheduler & leave it charging during peak rate which for me is 22.41p per kWh which is still cheaper than any local rapid charger. The only benefit I would have with a 7kW charger would be that I'd be able to take more advantage of the overnight 5 hours of 8.5p electricity - I know if my car is down to 20% or so it charges back up to 90% in 8 hours on a free 7kW charger I have at work - but a 3 pin plug charger hasn't been a limiting factor for me in 7 months and covering 7500 miles. If I'm low and I need a full charge quickly, there's a BP Pulse 50kW DC charger within 100 yards of my house which I can use if I'm desperate and will fill my car up quickly.

[@MarkHewitt1978]

I find the whole '13A is fine' argument quite odd indeed, and Dave isn't the first to espouse it by any means. But there is reason why UK regulations specify 10A as the maximum charge rate for EVs and I am quite surprised that they are even allowed to be sold. EVs really do put a unique stress on plugs, in all of the examples listed, kettle, air fryer, oven, none of them are running at a constant 13A for hours. For the kettle it is constant for a few minutes, the air fryer does not use constant power, after it is warmed up the power modulates on/off reguarly, and the same is true for the oven, all of these allow the plug and socket time to cool. EV charging is unique in its constant current requirements. In any event I don't think it makes much difference, if you really need more than 10A then you need to invest in a proper charger.

[@a133m210]

yes also he talks about the circuit potentially getting warm but its actually the plug itself thats the reason we limit the load to 10A over time! The live goes through a fuse which has a small but real resistance!! The heat produced over time conducts through the live pin into the plastic in the socket which over time exceeds its design spec for exposure to heat. An overheating issue might not cause a sudden catastrophic failure right away, but over time it will. In the other countries in europe where each plug is not fused a shuko plug can safely take 16A @ 230vac because it doesn't warm up like the UK 3 pin fused plug does. Also he shows his plug-in kettle and air fryer-doesnt show us a fan heater that can run without a suty cycle control rated at 3000 or 3050! Because one of those would not be sold in the UK. So ridiculous-he either has failed to understand this topic himself or he's deliberately misleading people. An unfused 3 pin plug with a short wire that is a higher cross section than the wiring from his socket to his consumer unit going to a 16 amp inline trip and then to a charger would not get hot in the same way and if he really insisted on using the kitchen circuit he would be doing it this way to avoid a melty/ brittle socket

[@FiddelsMr]

For Andrew. Just got my E3008 last week. Happy to say thats its a great EV. Plenty of range. Hope you enjoy it.

[@brianbailey4565]

Dave using an oven or air frier that has a 3kW heating rating and comparing that with a 3kW ev charger is misleading. The ev charger is constant and could be over 10 hours continuous at full power of approx. 3kW. Where as domestic appliances with a rating of 3 kW of heating after the initial heating up period is regulated by a thermostat where the power cuts in and out where the duty cycle could be less than 50% (equal time switched on and off) The reason there is a risk using a granny charger at 3kW continously is that the plug pins and socket contacts do gradually warm up, very little when new but with time the plug pins and socket contacts with this heat start to oxidise resulting in increased contact resistance. Increased resistance causes increased heating eventually this vicous loop causes the contacts to burn out, that is why 3kW emersion heaters are wired directly to an isolation switch and not via a plug and socket. So for piece of mind I would not use a granny charger continously at 13 amps.

[@rogerfinch7651]

Can see my smart meter drop and rise with my ninja air fryer so it’s def not on 100% when cooking the roasties. (Used a 3 pin for 3 yrs on 10a and 5A - I find the plug warm on 10 but perfectly fine of 5

[@MarkHewitt1978]

@@rogerfinch7651 My oven has a light on the front to say when it is drawing power. After the warmup phase the light spends more time off than on.

[@JamesEdwards860]

What about the minor issue that you always seem to disregard when raised, that EV charger supplies fed by a PME earthing system need either an Earth Rod or PEN fold protection device?

[@malcym3394]

It's the same risk as plugging in any metal electrical device and using it outdoors. Yet nobody really talked about PEN faults until EVs came along. A fault is certainly possible, but it's very unlikely. Problems can be present but undetected until an electrician comes to do a job on your system. But, because - however improbable - a fault is still possible, and hat's partly why systems should be checked every few years. For EV 'granny' charging, the best plan is to install a dedicated circuit, fed from a separate consumer unit which includes PEN fault detection. The question nobody asks is why TN-S systems can legally be repaired by distribution companies in a way that removes the earth! In fact, who the heck decided that it was a good idea to have combined neutral & earth in the first place, other than to save the cost of a separate conductor - a few quid on the price of a new property? There's lots in that comment for others to disagree with, but hey ho.

[@MsDmcclymont]

It's nice you can dial back to say 6 or 8 amps if you needed to use a heavy duty extension cable :):)

[@steve-zschannel2729]

I've used the Nissan supplied 3 pin charger once or twice a week for almost 3 years for on several occasions 6 hours straight with no problems whatsoever, always check the 3 pin plug periodically for temperature rise which has never gone more than slightly warm, I don't have any way of testing exactly how much power is transmitted but judging by my smart meter monitor I think it's around 2.3kW, I'm not sure that I'd be happy using a charger which delivered 3kW unless it had thermal protection which the Nissan charger does.

[@rogerphelps9939]

Yes. The Nissan granny charger limits the current to 10 amps.

[@chrisrs4969]

Great video. I couldn't get a fast Ev charger installed as my house is on a looped supply. So had an electrician install a dedicated seperate circuit from the consumer unit to an outdoor EV rated plug socket. I've been using this for over a year with a tesla with no issues charging overnight.

[@onewheelnut]

You are correct regarding the loop supply and car charger, BUT you could have installed a 32amp commando socket ( labelled up " only for welder ") You can get a charger that can be adjusted from 6 to 32amps with a commando plug on it. I can't say how I know :-)

[@redjohn20001]

Been using a granny charger for nearly two years now. My recipe is - 10 amps, I only charge during the day and I regularly check the plugs and sockets by touch and by eye for signs of extremes of heat. I once found the plug running hot to the touch, it turned out to be caused by the 13 amp fuse and the problem cleared when i changed it. This works for me as I do low miles and the car is on the drive for most of its life. Thanks for the video Dave.

[@Brian-om2hh]

You only charge during the day? Wow, that'll cost a bit. An off-peak tariff would cost 4 times less....usually around 7p per kwh That said, I understand there are now tariffs which offer an off-peak rate through the day, but *only* to charge an EV. Electricity used for anything else would be charged at the normal daytime rate....

[@rogerphelps9939]

It is often the fuse holder. Just pinch the arms a bit closer together to get a better contact with the fuse. Better yo limit the current to 10 amps.

[@wollywotsit]

Cheers Dave, we’ve just got a new ev, purchased a 10m granny cable which we run at 6amp. Puts more than enough in over night and we will use daily, will stick with it unless it becomes unworkable

[@CosmosRays]

7:31 Dave, with regards to the 10A or similar overnight, for me it is usually 16A. This is not Tesla nor the car causing this it is actually Octopus Energy control of your charging that is requesting this level of Amperage. I’m assuming you still overnight on Octopus. Another great video, keep em coming. 👍🏻

[@dopiaza2006]

You are drawing 16A though a 13A socket?

[@CosmosRays]

@@dopiaza2006 ​​⁠Hi, no specifically for this point the reference was with a normal 32A EVSE (7.2KW Wall Charger). Octopus Energy when set to control the overnight charging on a Schedule (such as intelligent go tariff) will often set the charge at a lower amperage than the 32A capable of the wall charger. I was pointing out to Dave it is not the car or battery management deciding to charge at a lower rate and actually Octopus controlled. I agree with where you were headed though, you should never be over drawing the max of any outlet is rated for. EV’s are usually very smart in this regard. 👍🏻

[@bellshooter]

It seems all OEM EVSE's are set to 10A as a conservative safety measure, to prevent overheating of 13A sockets, with long hours of use. I have been charging with a standard 13A EVSE for 7.5 years with no issues.

[@stephengowler5360]

Hi Dave. I’ve never used a granny charger, but we came to Spain earlier this month, so I brought it with me just in case. We arrived with 47% and it’s all I’ve used to charge since we arrived, together with a 2pin plug from Tough Leads which has been brilliant. (I also bought a 25 m extension but haven’t needed it). I leave it plugged in and the plug never gets hot.

[@garrycroft4215]

Dave I have the EV Dance “granny charger” it works perfectly. I’m on Octopus Agile and the average cost is 3p per mile on my 428bp Smart #1 Brabus.

[@danielhogg828]

Recommended to use a socket that is designed for ev charging and conforms to bs1363/ev to avoid melting a standard socket

[@rogerphelps9939]

Such sockets are designed to deliver the maximum current, 13 amps, for short periods only. Granny chargers supplied with EVs will limit the charging current to10 amps but aftermarket devices with selectable charging current will typically have 6,8, 10 and 13 amp settings. do not use the 13 amp setting for very long because the socket will overheat and things can melt. I have been there and done it so be warned.

[@RickBeton]

UKCA marking has been abandoned recently.

[@jsanders100]

Had a leaf for 3 years never bothered with a 7kw charger I just use standard 3 pin.

[@Gazer75]

The most important thing is to make sure the circuit being used has the proper RCD protection. I believe most old installs do not. Here in Norway a new install intended for charging an EV, like adding an outlet in the garage or something, can not use a regular Schuko socket. It has to be an EVSE with the built in protection or the circuit upgraded with such protection. Here they require Type B RCD protection. Pretty sure not even an industrial socket (IEC 60309) is acceptable which is kind of silly. These are often seen at camp sites for caravan or camper vans to get power.

[@chrissimms-mg8ov]

I’ve been using the granny charger for my kia soul ev for nearly 18 months now. The max current is 10A. No problems at all

[@davekirk100]

Got my charger plugged in near the back door, module inside, cable going out through the cat flap (held open so it's not blocked one way). Easy job Dave, just get a cat. My rate is about 10 miles/hour, a bit less when it's cold

[@Jaw0lf]

Never needed to use a Granny charger as I have a Zappi. Very interesting to see your hands on test with the EVDance as it seems many new EV’s are missing the 3 pin plug option.

[@rogerphelps9939]

Any granny charger with a type 2 output connector will charge any EV with a type 2 input socket. It is just manufacturers saving a few quid by not supplying a granny charger.

[@daveryder4430]

We had a 72reg Kuga PHEV and now a 24reg MachE. The 10A 'granny charger' is quite adequate for our needs around town, maybe 30mls per day at most and a few hours on the charger each evening when getting 4ml/Kw. The days we're not out the SOC catches up on the daily charge routine, generally 4pm-7pm. Obviously on a trip it's public charging, we don't carry the granny charger with us.

[@S0me0ne_S0meWhere_SaysHi]

Great episode Dave! I did hope however that you would have mentioned using extension cables on 13A chargers, plus extending the cable to these chargers. I know this should never be done and I'd never do it but I've seen people try/do it. This, in part at least is a lack of the dealer stressing that such actions must not be done. I know it probably says in the car manuals not to do this but most people do not read the manual on their new car. I'll add, it seems that EV manufactures now do not include a 13A charger with the car (looking at you Renault). I can only assume this is to possibly a) avoid the possible issues with what I mention above and b) Why should they when they always include a public charging cable anyhow.

[@Sean-uk4tf]

I believe the reason is to gain profit, as you can buy it as an option for a whopping £330. I have a granny charger, running at 10 amps on my renault scenic, works great, no heat. I am using an industrial extention, and have unwound the entire cable. No heat build up, slightly more anxious as you mentioned it specifically. Hopefully Dave can test??? I get 2.2kw per hour @ 10amps

[@S0me0ne_S0meWhere_SaysHi]

@@Sean-uk4tf seems as though you've taken measures to avoid issues but I still suspect the rules state, never do it under any circumstances. I'm certain many electricians would advise the same. I know one that would. Admittedly only really an issue at full charging capacity.

[@Sean-uk4tf]

@@S0me0ne_S0meWhere_SaysHi thanks for the reassurance. The charger I use (voltngo) has a temperature monitor on both the charger gun and the 13 amp plug. I do test the extention plug by hand, and after 6 hours charging it is just above room temperature. (hardly feel any heat at all) I also check the cable at intervals and the same, no heat at all in the cable. So far so good. Any change and I'll post it.

[@barrymurton8988]

Government has abandoned the ‘uk standard’ and is now adopting the CE standard as standard! This is to make it easier for exporters - So they don’t have to have to product lines!

[@MarkHewitt1978]

Is that the UKCA standard? As that is what is written on both my granny charger and Type 2 cable. Adopting CE where possible makes sense, as having special products for the UK seems overkill.

[@rogerphelps9939]

@@MarkHewitt1978 Not overkill, just stupidity and exceptionalism.

[@clifffitton7067]

At the start of your video you are out side a next near a McDonald’s , looks like fraddon in Cornwall , would I be correct , good video as well

[@rickyjulian496]

Could you make a video of an EV being charged from another EV.. I was just wondering Is it possible to do so with a v2l adaptor and a granny charger?

[@patpong5873]

Dave Ev Dance does same charger but with a time delay feature 🙄 and the on screen information has Temperature 🌡 reading in the Small Tft display I think set it to 10 Amp is fine on outside 13amp socket Also Ev Dance have new commando 32Amp socket type with 7kw maybe you could give that a review or test 😉

[@rtfazeberdee3519]

its worth stressing for new EV owners that the Battery Management System in the car controls the speed of charge and not the external charger

[@timoliver8940]

Quite a few new cars now don’t come with a 3 pin EVSE unit. My last Mini Cooper S E came with one, my new Countryman S E did not, just the usual cable with type 2 connections at each end.

[@MarkHewitt1978]

It seems to vary a great deal. My MG4 came with a granny charger and Type 2. But many buyers of the car report only getting a granny cable.

[@rogerphelps9939]

Not very convenient for someone new to EVs and is unable to use a Type 2 connection.

[@rodneilson5831]

Nice shirt Dave 😊

[@barrymurton8988]

Voltage should not fluctuate like that, are you at the end of a ‘pole’ mounted service! If it happens again you should report it!

[@MarkHewitt1978]

It is odd as I only charge from 3-pin and have done for nearly 3 years and often over the peak period and never experienced his issues. It may well he his car cutting the session.

[@maxflight777]

In Europe we get 16A max not the 13A the UK provides… Its a useful increase

[@Gazer75]

16A is max, the Schuko or its variants is not rated for that continuous. That is why these adapter cables (it's not a charger, the charger is in side the car) are often limited to 10A.

[@davegreen-d1o]

My Performance is 377 KW MODEL 3 Thats 505 bhp

[@ghawdex7]

Hi Dave. Great explanation. Which utility company are you using to get those rates?

[@davetakesiton]

I’m with octopus intelligent

[@oliver90owner]

There are now 7kW portable chargers on sale. More efficient charging than the 2.4kW max because the power losses, while charging, are likely close to 250W. So 10% loss for the 2.4kW charger and about 3.5% for the 7kW ones.version. It must be plugged into a commando style outlet of 32A capacity - and there are not many of those around! However the socket would be cheaper to be fitted, by an electrician, than a wall mounted charger. One such charger, from a well known internet-seller (the south american river 🙂) is priced at less than £300. It is a ‘dumb’ charger, so no particular frills. However, if reliable - and it may not be - it would save a little over £40 pa for someone driving 10k miles @ 4m/kWh and using grid electricity @ 26p/kWh. It may be better for high mileage per annum if those vehicles could be charged only on the cheapest EV tariffs during the cheap night periods. Everyone’s situation would be different, so each would need to calculate their alternative costs and decide what is best for them. I won’t be buying one, as the current 7kW wall charger, for 5 hours each night, is all I need - in almost all circumstances.

[@dopiaza2006]

@@oliver90owner 'Chargers' are really not chargers at all, they are switches that pass mains voltage to the EV and tell it how much current it can draw. The difference between a 10A/2.4kW 'charger' and a 32A/7kW 'charger' is simply the thickness of the wires and the signal it sends to the EV.

[@oliver90owner]

@@dopiaza2006 dopi you need to go back to school…. The battery becomes charged as more energy is stored in it. With such a charger, the EV needs to convert, the power supplied, to a suitable DC current that reverses the discharge reactions within the battery. That process is called ‘charging the battery’ - hence the item used is called a ‘charger’. Rather more complex, than the old 12V lead/acid car battery chargers of years past, because of safety issues required where high voltage traction batteries are concerned. AC chargers, for EVs, can range from a little over a kW to 22kW. I don’t know of any EV that charges at a greater rate than that, from AC chargers. But, of course, all DC chargers use AC power don’t they? The only difference is that it is DC delivered directly to the vehicle traction battery. It was around 20:00h when you posted. Past your bedtime or you won’t be ready for school,tomorrow morning.🙂

[@MarkHewitt1978]

@@oliver90owner I have been considering such given the expense of a 'proper' charger. Even a 16A commando would likely do the job for me. I do understand however that the DNO needs to be notified if anything over 13A is installed for EV charging, even a 16A socket - although they would not need to be involved if the socket was for other purposes.

[@sargfowler9603]

It's a fallback solution isn't it? You really should get a proper charger instead of the granny charger. Higher power, safer and able to take advantage of flexible energy schemes. They don't cost a lot and you'll need one eventually.

[@rogerphelps9939]

If you have solar panels and wish to match EV charging to current solar output a granny charger comes in very useful.

[@dopiaza2006]

You need a thermal imaging camera really - I have a Masterplug 10A EV charger and the cable to the EV can hit over 90c regularly. It's often not so much about the socket as the chinese crap aluminium based cabling and shit moulded plugs they have fitted. I replaced the cable and plug with good qulaity items and now it barely hits 40C. With the original plug and cable the cable went floppy and was too hot to touch.

[@malcym3394]

I'm surprised any electrical device reaching 90C has been certified for use in the UK. Don't 13 amp EVSE devices have to have thermal regulation n the plug? That's partly why you should never replace the supplied plug on such a device. Is aluminium cabling even legal n the UK now? Altogether, this makes me wonder whether the device you cite was an OEM device or a bargain basement aftermarket one.

[@maxflight777]

This is what pisses me off about the Tesla haters: If had stood on my driveway, with my friends, and said; My new car has 500HP, O-60 in 3.6s but does 110mpg and is silent. It doesn’t need services and has more interior space than the X5 it replaced …. They would all be agast. Impressed beyond belief… But when I say it’s a Tesla, they all sneer and get very grumpy! Petulant child-like. “Elon should shut his bloody mouth” “That thing will catch fire” “Doesn’t he support Trump?” “Car parks can’t stand the weight” “It depreciates fast” “Takes hours to charge” “You’ll need new batteries in two years and they cost £30K” “You can’t cross Europe in it” Utter imbeciles…