Granny charging? Testing a Pergear EV charger on our Mini and E-Golf

[@Yorkie-UK]

We use our granny charger occasionally (easier to discharge the Givenergy battery into the car). I got the 10m Masterplug from screwfix which as been a really good charger.. As it is in the garage on a shared socket with fridges etc I lower the car charge down to 8 amps. The ability to change it on the unit is a lot better, that is something to look into along with a dedicated socket. Good video!.

[@TinTentTourist]

I've had my zoe for 14 months and mostly use a granny charger in the garage. Lower amps, slow charge and mostly from solar. In fact no grid charge since March! I should add, no intelligent control either, I manually control it via a TP-LINK Tapo smart energy monitor plug. Normally charge at 2.6kw. Faultless for over a year!

[@EVPuzzle]

Keep Inspecting it of course

[@TinTentTourist]

@@EVPuzzle and I do check. I should add I use the timer on the smart plug to use the octopus go tariff 4 hours in winter, or when there's not unough solar. I didn't have solar or a battery when I got the car!

[@EVPuzzle]

Most manufacturers state AC charging is better for the battery and slow is good is see sensible. Might not be most efficient but less heat is good

[@dgurevich1]

I use my MG provided granny charger and apart from taking over 20 hours it's fine. I do have to use an extention cord but I made sure to get a overbuilt one, and check that it doesn't heat up regularly.

[@ceeess2265]

Thanks for your video. I would be looking at reducing the charging output. I’m a little confused on your charging calculation of 230v at 8 amp = 1.7kW. Is this allowing for physical loss through heat, cable length.

[@landyjokey]

I'm a subscriber Nigel loving the channel up here in Ayrshire Scotland. My solar doing great and battery brilliant(Givenergy system 8.2 battery 16x330w)MG5 long range brilliant car going to Birmingham NEC Caravan show October. Done 3500miles from May and I'm impressed with it.MG4 coming soon and looks pretty good. You should think of a Scottish tour for content for the channel because most charging is free up here with Charge Place Scotland it's fantastic. Between that and my Zappi charger no cost for my charging of my car.Thanks for a great channel.

[@EVPuzzle]

Your welcome John, thanks for watching and joining in

[@daveforrester61]

John, unfortunately that's no longer the case with Chargeplace Scotland. I think the Ayrshire councils are one of the few that don't apply a tariff to their chargers. The vast majority of others do.

[@shockthemonkey7046]

Through the summer I only ever granny charge so most power is coming from my pv - use the one supplied with the car and run at full tilt, I see no problem with this even after 10-12hr the unit gets a little warm but so what? Provided your mains cabling is good and the granny charger is the only thing loading a 15Amp spur it’s perfectly safe.

[@DS-xx3dx]

I’ve got an Easee charger installed at home.The power level can be lowered to 2.4kw which is ideal for trickle charging.

[@keithdaines8613]

Got myself an EV at last. We only ever use the car for short trips (around 20 miles). Being retired I am able to charge using solar most of the time as we only use the car for maybe 3 trips per week. I have an outside socket which is on it's own circuit. I only ever use the granny cable as I do not need quick charging. May look into getting a Pergear cable to utilise the lower amperage which seems like a good idea, that way I can still put some charge into house batteries at the same time hopefully.

[@EVPuzzle]

Be sensible, slow is your friend

[@MrKlawUK]

check your car too - some will let you lower the current draw from the car.

[@maxrichens8279]

Hi , I find the best use of the granny charger is when you have solar panels. If you use the granny then the car charges at 2.4kWh while the panels are producing 2to4 kW. This means not pulling from the grid. If I use my 7kW wall socket it will pull from the grid to do so. So costing money.

[@pumpkinhead456]

That's when an intelligent charger like the Zappi helps, it takes the excess solar so nothing going to or from the grid.

[@maxrichens8279]

@@pumpkinhead456 we got wall charger 4 years back ... Pre zappi ...got installed by polar for nothing when I got the Leaf. Fortunately the garage had 32 amp circuitry.

[@alanrobinson2229]

Through sunny months of year,I use "granny cable" 90 percent of time on 10 amps. Great for soaking up excess solar. Only in winter do I need my fast charger,overnight from grid(cheap rate). I would add tho, I check the plugs regular and open them up to make sure all the wires are well tightened, making sure the wires are nicely twisted,to avoid micro shorting,which occurs on loosely twisted wires over prolonged use,causing heat.

[@zombinton6936]

What charger do you use if I may ask? Needing a 3 pin granny charger for next 3 months as staying at friends house

[@alanrobinson2229]

@@zombinton6936 Hi I bought a generic relatively cheap one on e,bay,I can't remember the brand,as I don't use it now. I use my ohme charger and regulate the amps on my car app.

[@EVPuzzle]

I've tested the Pergear one on the channel I use the Kia or Mini one normally but the one I tested has changeable amps and a more detailed screen. Cable length can be key too some are very short kzbin.info/www/bejne/ponTqGOledVmY8ksi=_7M3djVE529Y7w9O

[@andyfraser5876]

The length of cable between plug and control box is limited by legislation as the control box contains earth leakage protection (RCD or equivalent), which is the main reason why it shouldn't be used with an extension lead.

[@KevinLyda]

My solar inverter can only manage 5 kW, so I actually stick with a 16 amp charger that plugs into a commando socket. It's technically a "granny charger" but I have it mounted inside my garage and just plug in on sunny days.

[@S.wilson911]

Just collected our Mini SE. I feel a bit thick. Trying to work out charging. We have the new Zappi. Do we set the economy tarrif boosting time on the Zappi or car for charging in the Octopus Go 4hr window. If it’s the car, do you set the charger to fast ?

[@craigsanderson2858]

Great video. Quick question. Will the unit remember the last rate of charge setting after a power cycle? As if this were on a timer or smart WiFi socket, I'd like to keep it on the lowest charge setting to keep within a self generated solar PV system. Thanks!

[@EVPuzzle]

I think it resets to max. Many EVs have in car settings for charge rate though so you can set it there

[@craigsanderson2858]

@@EVPuzzle Thank you!

[@BigALBoomer]

Can you have the control box outside in the rain with an outdoor socket?

[@EVPuzzle]

I have done yes, it's designed for outdoor use but I would always shelter it as much as possible

[@S.wilson911]

We collect our Mini EV on the 1st Sept. Just had the Zappi fitted at home but as we have a 250kw Solar array at work I’m allowed to charge it there with the granny charger for the 10hr I’m there. I did think about installing a used 7kw charger but there aren’t many about.

[@effin1233]

Ordered it hopefully works well

[@EVPuzzle]

Hope you saw the £20 off amazon coupon

[@effin1233]

@@EVPuzzle got delivered on Monday tried it with my zoe all good like how I can turn down the amps

[@PeterStaniforth]

I'm thinking of buying a 2017 Nissan Leaf but when I look at the charger type I see that the specs say type 1, but this charger is a type 2. Will this fit the Leaf or do I need a different charger? I don't have the option (or need) for a dedicated wall (fast) charger as my car will be rarely used at the weekends (when I plan to charge) so one of these would be great.

[@EVPuzzle]

Type 1 uses a different connection so won't work with many standard chargers . It's an issue to consider , you'll need unique cables for charging out too

[@TrevorHa]

I ordered a granny charger with my ev. £150. Only the type 2 lead was included. Though I have used my granny charger a fair bit this Summer. The VW app can reduce ac charging, though while using it the vw granny did not get very warm. I only got it for emergency use really 🙂

[@EVPuzzle]

The VW one we've got is a bulky old thing. Must've been used a lot as it doesn't look new

[@hicksonb]

Morning Nigel, thanks for the video. Qq how is the granny cable not draining the battery, have you a Shelly pm on the socket?

[@EVPuzzle]

It is draining the battery. When the clouds cover the sun but then it charges up again when the sun's out. The battery is great at smoothing things out

[@stephenporter3209]

To what waterproof rating is this granny box.Can I leave it outside in the rain? Also, the zappi, how far out from the wall i(max) s the charging cable? I need to install mine in an alleyway & can't find dimensions anywhere?Cheers,Steve.

[@EVPuzzle]

I did say it's ip65 Zappi comes with with 5m or 8m cable

[@stephenporter3209]

@@EVPuzzle Cheers Nigel. I missed that bit, How far does the zappi stick out from the wall when the cable is plugged in? I need to install in an alleyway, Thanks.

[@EVPuzzle]

Guessing I'd say the length of a standard tin of beans. Fits flush so dimensions should be on Zappi spec sheet

[@stephenporter3209]

@@EVPuzzle Indeed. But how far out does the charging cable plugged in, stick out from the wall?

[@johntisbury]

Do they do grandad chargers too? Asking for a friend.

[@EVPuzzle]

Mine is definitely male connection

[@alecleverton4015]

Hi Nigel do you have any links to this unit as I’ve looked on the internet and so far have not found anything Thanks

[@EVPuzzle]

In the video description ...

[@FancyaBevMate]

Morning matey, I don't carry any cables around (I come from the security industry orginaly whereby prevention is better than cure) as once thieves get upto speed regarding the £300+ cables been easy to get out of vehicles. (I did mention this on a very early video on my channel) Some might say it won't happen but look at the ridiculous amount of thieves taking catalysts off vehicles not to mention the noise and time to cut them off. A quick smash and grab would be much quicker for them and less risk. I can't believe 5 years on from my leaf there's no security in place in the sunken boot area! Cheers

[@EVPuzzle]

For scrap there's more to be had cutting them off remote chargers or home chargers I guess it depends how they can sell them on. How much would you pay for a used granny charger? They're only £150 new. Thieves will find a way of course

[@formulavon]

What charging efficiency did you get with the granny charger? Was it the same on both cars?

[@EVPuzzle]

The Mini isn't so efficient on AC charging sadly, closer to 20% losses. That's the cars fault not the charger. VW was closer to 15%

[@formulavon]

How does that compare to the 7kW charger?

[@EVPuzzle]

@@formulavon no different

[@roelvanes1711]

My Honda E is nearly always on its granny charger soaking up excess solar. I too have an outside socket installed. It seems to run at about 10A, which is ideal. Fuel costs for this car: zero.

[@vaughanmarsh5429]

What is the app on the tablet please ?

[@EVPuzzle]

That my "home assistant" dashboard

[@AlanPope]

Had my Mini EV for 8 months now and never even tried the granny charger. I mostly charge overnight on a Ohme Pro, but I guess at a pinch I could hook up to a 3-pin outlet. Just not had the need to yet! Maybe one day! :D

[@oliver90owner]

Don’t bother unless away from home! There is a (constant?) power loss at the car end (along with the thermal losses in the wiring/plug) which will reduce the charging efficiency. Probably not as bad as the US granny chargers operating on 110V. The ionic Guy recorded over 30% efficiency loss, compared to a higher powered charger, with his Ioniq 5.

[@AlanPope]

@@oliver90owner You're replying to a two year old post. :). I have now had the car for three years, and still never plugged in the granny charger, and no intention to.

[@lookoutleo]

I wish they'd sent me that charger, I have leaf 30, it's Granny charger draws 13a which makes everything get warm. Would prefer a charger like yours as could reduce the current. Where did you get that one and price? I won't be setting up a 6kw charger as no solar pannels and only need to car to trickle charge for the reasonable small journeys it does

[@EVPuzzle]

It's in the description of the video

[@xlp3t3r]

Nigel- I enjoy your vids and about to get panels and a battery. Just wanted to ask how often you clean yours and how it’s done. Thanks👍🏻

[@EVPuzzle]

I don't. Tried a few times and probably made them worse with tap water. Better to let nature do its thing

[@xlp3t3r]

@@EVPuzzle thanks 👍

[@ThatPhilBrettGuy]

The only disadvantage I found with lower charge rates is a reduction in efficiency. Most cars when charging have a constant draw to run pumps etc etc. The faster you charge the less that becomes a factor obviously. But as you say it's less of a strain on the solar system. Personally as I'm only dumping excess into the car (I've a very small system) I tend to pick 8 amps for the best balance. The Mercedes charger only allows 6/8 or 9(ish) amps for some reason. Playing ultra safe I guess.

[@EVPuzzle]

I've found our car charges as efficiently at 2kw as it does at 7. All EVs have different AC DC inverters on board of course

[@TeesTrev]

Hi Nigel thanks for a great channel I have a mate called Nigel and use "Making plans" as the ring tone when he calls. Please correct me if I am wrong . My understanding is that there is a minimum power level at which you can charge so that if required the Battery Management System can kick in and cool or warm the batteries as required. I have Solar and a Zappi and when the Zappi is just set to divert the execess Solar so that it is not exported to the grid it is looking for an excess of 1.4 kW or greater. So if you drop the current on the Granny charger too much is there not a risk you will drop below 1.4 kW which might be bad for the battery. I have a Zoe ZE50 no Granny cable provided . In fact my previous ZE40 didn't come with one either. I bought an official Renault Granny cable but have not been using it because I had concerns about the charging power . Am I just worrying unnecessarily ? I am very good at that. Cheers Mr T

[@EVPuzzle]

Not the granny is 13a by default. That's 3kw, 10a is 2.4kw and 8a is around 1.7kw. Some Evs support as low as 1.4, some are 1.7.

[@judebrown4103]

Hi Nigel, I'm a new ev user but I've done loads of research so am getting on great. We've got no solar and no driveway so public chargers for us. However we could literally charge at "granny's", well mum's 😄. The thing I don't know is how much of a hit would her electric bill take if it was plugged in for...three hours, say or even more? I'm quite number blind so excuse the ignorance 😅

[@alanbrad3727]

Maximum output would be 3.6kwh so 3hours × 3.6kwh = 10.8kw used. If the price cap rises to 52pence per kwh in October 3 hours could cost roughly £5.61

[@judebrown4103]

@@alanbrad3727 oh wow, thanks so much. That's brilliant, I'm in awe, truly! 😅🙏👍

[@EVPuzzle]

Depends on your Mums tariff of course and time you charge. Power (kW) x Time = kwh Slowest speed 1.7kw x 2 hours =3. 4kwh or 3.4 units of electricity. For us that's 3.4 x 7.5p if we charge in the early hours or 40p a kwh if during the day. Stop the night and charge at cheap rate 😉

[@judebrown4103]

@@EVPuzzle oh brilliant, that's the first time I've had an example written down...well let's rephrase that...it's the first time I remember! I've carefully noted it down so that together we can work out costs. Especially as it will probably only be day time for a few hours. Thanks Nigel, appreciate you and your viewer helping my ME/CFS addled brain to get to grips with this. It's not only old age and number blindness you see! 🤯🤪

[@eliotmansfield]

Imagine the response you would get if you arrived at a friends house and asked if you can borrow their jerry can to top your car up whilst I was visiting them.

[@EVPuzzle]

Exactly, brilliant isn't it have such cheap fuel you can give away without concern, in fact with joy

[@Richardincancale]

7:47 I wonder who translated the front panel labels - never seen the word ‘Transspertissed’ before!!

[@markyates5744]

The Tesla granny adaptor that looks like this has an inbuilt temperature sensor. When I charged at 10amps it told me off - said the socket was getting too hot and dropped it to 5Amps! I guess it can tell that through the wire temperature. I really would not recommend using 2.5mm2 cable at 13amps continuously - especially if your house has not been recently rewired - it's a fire hazard! No household product pulls 13amps on a 13pin plug! They pull about 10max!! Using a watt meter will show you dishwashers, kettles pull 2.35kW max - about 11 amps - and then only for 3-5 minutes max. Not 13 (2.7kW) for 10 hours! If you want 10-13amps+ charging you're better off getting a proper £1000 charger, or a 32amp commando wired off a dedicated 6mm2 or 10mm2 (depends on distance from board).

[@MrStevegibb]

2.5mm cable is rated to handle about 30amps max but notmally protected by 20amp breaker. So 10amps will be no problem if your socket gets hot at 10amps then its probably that the socket that needs rewired or replacing.

[@Cobnapint]

​@@MrStevegibbvery true. The only reason that a plug in a socket fed by 2.5mm2 would get hot would be either poor tension on the socket's spring contacts, a loose wire or high resistance/dirty contact.

[@karenhudson6473]

Nigel. I've just got PV this summer, with a battery (8.2KW) and iboost, but I still have some excess solar power, for which I will be paid a pittance (tried to get Octopus Outgoing, but the best rates are only for Octopus customers who also import from them). I know you try out lots of solar gear. Is there anything out there that lets you mop up excess solar power (like an i boost or eddi) but works with an ordinary plug. Over the summer I have been using an electric dehydrater to dry my tomatoes and fruit, but have to keep running in and out to turn it off each time the sun goes in. It would be ideal if it could just sit there when its cloudy and run only when there is excess solar. Here's hoping! Could be a gap in the market here?

[@EVPuzzle]

Smart plug or smart relay switch linked with your solar data would do the trick. A few on my twitter feed are doing similar with heaters. Where there's a will there's a way

[@JustMeTalking]

Hi Nigel, something you might want to consider is a 32amp Commando Socket as well. They charge at 7 kW. My Tesla Mobile Charger has a removable 3 Pin Plug lead, which is interchangeable with either a 16amp or 32amp Commando Socket. The Tesla Mobile Charger intelligently uses the maximum charge rate for the Socket type (but you can also control it through the Tesla App for lower ampage). I bought the Commando Socket as a backup option to the Zappi wall chargers

[@EVPuzzle]

If I didn't have a Zappi that's how I'd go but 32a continuous is too high to maximise solar tbh

[@markyates5744]

@@EVPuzzle The advatange with Tesla app and car is you can tell the car how many amps to draw at - any number between 5 and 32. If you limit it to say 15amps and it's a sunny day without clouds and nobody is running anything higher amps than a TV then you're going to be drawing from solar if like me and you you have 7+kW of panels. Even if it's cloudy, but you have a battery system than can do 3kw then setting it to 10amps should mean the car never draws from the grid for more than 10 seconds - the ramp up / down time of a battery for when the sun goes behind the clouds.

[@ady8077]

Nice video, but check your consumer unit first, its not recommended to use a granny cable on a " Type AC RCD " especially if you only have 1 RCD protecting all the sockets in your house. The DC leakage current can blind the RCD and stop it from tripping if there is a fault

[@pumpkinhead456]

I think KZbin deleted my last comment - do you still share your Octopus sign up? I'm about to switch and would be delighted to contribute!

[@EVPuzzle]

Yes the link is in the description of the video and the referral code is the last bit of the link pink-rose-718

[@entity_dragons2013]

Like and subscribed

[@edwardpickering9006]

All EVs don't come with one... Peugeot wanted £650 for one when we ordered our e2008. In the end we got one for free due to deliver delays. Worth getting a decent watertight 10-15m extension flex in the boot as well in case the cable.run needs to be longer.

[@edwardpickering9006]

It's a real shame that the name has stuck. What's wrong with "3 pin charger" or "home plug charger"? Kind of alienates older people as it implies they wouldn't know how to get a standard EV charger installed at home.

[@DTech101]

Not the best thing to use as it’s a lot of sustained load on the socket, a lot of people are finding sockets being burnt, the the pin socket wasn’t designed for the sustained load over this time period. At lower amps your fine but most don’t

[@EVPuzzle]

Hence my comments on lowering amps. You can't avoid idiots misusing things of course

[@benmoore7826]

@@EVPuzzle I wonder if there is an uprated 3 pin socket available that is designed for a sustained current load

[@Peter-de1vf]

Best option would be a 16A commando blue socket as used at marinas and camping parks. Professionally installed these are designed for sustained loads. Then buy charger with the blue plug fitted.

[@DTech101]

@@Peter-de1vf yes 👍🏾 very true, only thing they don’t look the best in domestic environment though, I’ve left one spare way out of the three in my fuse box for a charger

[@anthonydyer3939]

I’ve used a granny charger with extension cable at holiday cottage destinations. There’s no problem with the extension cable, as that in itself is fused at 13amps, and the conductor cross section should be 1.5mm squared, more than adequate for 13amps of current. So long as the extension cable isn’t coiled up, then heat isn’t going to be a problem. I do prefer to not use it of course simply because extra cable heat losses are being paid for. But in my experience I get 236volts recorded on my EV with a granny charger, and 226 volts with an extension cable.

[@johnhatton6211]

I own a holiday cottage and discovered after the event that a Tesla owner had helped themselves to approx £50 worth of electricity using a granny charger….. That particular family will not be staying again.

[@anthonydyer3939]

@@johnhatton6211 and as a responsible holiday maker I always leave some electricity “honesty money” on the table before I leave. That said, as a holiday letting owner you need to face up to the fact that there will be more and more holiday makers driving in electric cars. Telling a holiday maker to “stop charging up, use the public chargers” is a euphemism for ruining someone’s holiday, a bad trip advisor review, and putting off increasing numbers of holiday makers from staying at your property. You need to make sure your holiday letting agreements deal with EV users adequately. If the agreement says “electricity included”, there’s little comeback if someone turns up and plugs in. If it says “EV charging not permitted unless £50 surcharge for EV drivers”, or “EV charging permitted at 50p/kWh as metered on electric vehicle”, or “first 200kWh on meter included in rent, extra use charged at 50p/kWh” then you’re covered. You can as a small holiday business also take advantage of the government “workplace charging scheme” which was extended to cover the small holiday accommodation business. Grant is £350 per charger, up to a maximum of 40 chargers per registered business.

[@EVPuzzle]

That's not on without asking in advance

[@EVPuzzle]

Just needs to be priced in. It's the surprise that's the problem imo We only holiday at EV friendly locations

[@johnhatton6211]

🙂