Chatting With Nutts - Episode #85 ft Johanna

[@Johanna_reads]

Thank you so much for having me back! I had a wonderful time! You’re the best!!! ❤

[@thefantasynuttwork]

@@Johanna_reads always love chatting with you my friend

[@demidrek-heyward]

thanks Jimbo & Johanna, one of the greatest of all guests!!

[@thefantasynuttwork]

@@demidrek-heyward I couldn’t agree more! Thank you!

[@dark_ones_taint5993]

Excellent show, you guys have the best conversations.

[@thefantasynuttwork]

@@dark_ones_taint5993 thank you my friend!

[@davidslone2937]

I’ll be watching this one on replay! Always love your and Johanna’s dynamic. Cheers, Jimmy!

[@thefantasynuttwork]

@@davidslone2937 cheers brother!

[@billyalarie929]

Johanna, I think you should publish that video. You would be an amazing perspective in some folks’ minds in terms of trying to untangle that knot. It’s an undervalued discussion and you putting that out there would be a real tiebreaker for some people trying to decide the value of one type of book over another, and whether that dichotomy even matters. (Maas vs. Malazan)

[@thefantasynuttwork]

@@billyalarie929 I agree!

[@BooksWithBenghisKahn]

Such a great chat to watch on replay after a long week of work, and heartwarming to see a couple of friends so passionately chatting books 💪

[@thefantasynuttwork]

@@BooksWithBenghisKahn I am glad it was worth the watch! Appreciate you

[@esmayrosalyne]

I love how you two can just go from extremely deep and thoughtful discussions to absolutely goofing out with each other, such a beautiful friendship. Absolutely wonderful chat, Johanna is a gem! And oooh yes Jimmy, I am so ready for you to read some romantasy and discuss it with Kelsey, I think that'd be a blast 🤩Thanks for the fun :)))

[@thefantasynuttwork]

@@esmayrosalyne so glad it’s enjoyable to watch because we love doing it!

[@esmayrosalyne]

@@thefantasynuttwork and it shows that you two love it! Also forgot to mention this, but the rebranding with the logo and everything look SICK 🤩

[@thefantasynuttwork]

@@esmayrosalyne thank you!!!

[@Justin-Grissom]

Jimmy, that was an awesome show to watch. Thank you!

[@thefantasynuttwork]

Thanks for being here and the super chat!

[@adamk42]

"Apparently Joseph Conrad said that the best criterion for the quality of a book is that women don't like it--because women can only like bad literature. Well, I have to admit I like what Conrad wrote very much. Sincerely." Olga Tokarczuk in the afterword for The Hearing Trumpet by Leonora Carrington. The discussion about gendered reading reminded me of this quote. Really the whole afterword was great and now Tokarczuk is on the (neverending)tbr. Great chat you two!

[@thefantasynuttwork]

@@adamk42 sassy, I like it hahaha

[@hectatereads105]

As a woman in her mid thirties who read a lot as a child, I’m so happy to see more female main characters who are strong and capable. There weren’t many options when I was growing up. I jumped into adult books early and also found a lack of female protagonists. It’s wonderful to see a growth in that area.

[@thefantasynuttwork]

@@hectatereads105 absolutely!

[@TheBeeesKnees]

Replay crew strong 💪🏼 😤

[@thefantasynuttwork]

@@TheBeeesKnees hurricanes be damned

[@billyalarie929]

Am here reporting for duty!

[@weregretohio7728]

Your reaction to It is similar to what I'm experiencing reading it now. Like not the surprise, but the mundane evil is scarier than the monster.

[@thefantasynuttwork]

@@weregretohio7728 definitely

[@chadia25]

Listening to CWN is the perfect way to start a weekend!! ❤

[@thefantasynuttwork]

@@chadia25 have a great weekend!

[@bartsbookspace]

Hej Jimmy. I just read The Buried Giant. You will like it. It is unique, a bit odd, and like other books by Ishiguro, full of quiet but though-provoking moments.

[@thefantasynuttwork]

@@bartsbookspace sounds like a certified banger to me! I appreciate you letting me know

[@libraryofaviking]

Great conversation!

[@thefantasynuttwork]

@@libraryofaviking thanks!

[@BreakingSpines]

Another great episode with my favourite Dudebro and Jimmy. On a sidenote, please drag Alex Nieves out of retirement for CWN, maybe for #87 seeing as it's 50 episodes since his last appearance

[@thefantasynuttwork]

@@BreakingSpines I’d love to, maybe we will do it live from a golf course

[@fantasyfanatic6038]

The goofball zoom will forever be my favorite thing.

[@thefantasynuttwork]

@@fantasyfanatic6038 I’m glad someone appreciates it lol

[@nerzenjaeger]

5:19 Legend by Gemmell, Gates of Fire by Pressfield.

[@hectatereads105]

I do see GG Kay in bookstores always, but I’m in Canada and he’s Canadian. There are always Malazan books as well, in the bigger bookstores because he’s also Canadian

[@thefantasynuttwork]

@@hectatereads105 Canada has all the great authors!

[@thatsci-firogue]

I love Grimdark but its an increasingly unhelpful term as everyone's threshold for darkness is different (nothing wrong with that, we all have thresholds and its very important to be aware of them), for some First Law is about as much darkness as one can handle, and for some Malazan is Grimdark (I personally disagree with that one but hey, who am I to judge)

[@thefantasynuttwork]

@@thatsci-firogue yeah the labels are something I barely pay attention to now

[@nightmarishcompositions4536]

When I think grimdark, Second Apocalypse, Manifest Delusions and Berserk are the first 3 things that come to mind.

[@thefantasynuttwork]

@@nightmarishcompositions4536 definitely fair

[@thatsci-firogue]

Speaking of Tad Williams, To Green Angel Tower is cookin'

[@thefantasynuttwork]

@@thatsci-firogue 10000%

[@joshramirez7]

Btw, I watched the first 3 episodes of From a week or so ago. Completely agree. Excellent setup, bad execution. It's designed to keep you watching with cliffhangers, and I'm glad I quickly realized that and cut bait when the drunk dude got put in the box. Amazon has no right to keep MGM separate, eventually they will merge with a price bump of course...

[@thefantasynuttwork]

@@joshramirez7 I’m gonna keep watching so I can eventually feel validated when the ending is bad

[@alexdoran527]

Ironically, I had no idea what Dude Bro Lit is, despite being 20+ books deep into the Horus Heresy haha. Intent is always a big part of it for me. I mean, nobody looks at Judge Dredd and thinks "wow, what a stirling example of policing, why are our officers not Judge, Jury and Executioner?" Right??

[@thefantasynuttwork]

@@alexdoran527 unfortunately there’s at least one out there who does lol

[@alexdoran527]

@@thefantasynuttwork for real? I guess satire is dead then!

[@sy.kepler]

Great conversation between two of my favourite booktubers. Jimmy, when are you starting Runelords? Because I read the first couple of chapters of book one some time ago, and was intrigued. But now I think it's time to continue.

[@andrewlavigne44]

I remember always seeing these in stores but never picking them up. Think they had Darryl K. Sweet covers so I kept thinking they were Wheel of Times from afar. Would love for Jimmy to find a new hidden masterpiece.

[@thefantasynuttwork]

@@sy.kepler hoping to start next month but we will see

[@thatsci-firogue]

That's why I've been pulling back on the amount of booktube I've been watching again. Don't get me wrong, the community part is fun and there's some really entertaining channels out there but when it comes to recommendations I've mostly stopped paying attention (mostly when it comes to series) because everyone's talking about the same stuff again and again which is fine but I've largely stopped getting the benefit of watching booktube in that regard, and becoming a bit of a contarian and enjoying doing my own thing.

[@thefantasynuttwork]

@@thatsci-firogue I think just reading what ya want is the way to go, I think being a contrarian is too exhausting personally lol

[@thatsci-firogue]

@@thefantasynuttwork oh no sorry I meant it just feels like I'm being one even tho it's not intentional, no, I've no patience for contarians either.

[@nightmarishcompositions4536]

Just gotta find more niche channels out there. The big channels all talk about the same exact mainstream books over and over again with nearly identical opinions on all of them, but there's lots of small niche book channels that dive into more obscure indie books, classic fiction, unpopular genres, etc.

[@thatsci-firogue]

@@nightmarishcompositions4536 Fair point though I've found that to be a problem amongst smaller channels as well. I don't pay that much attention to larger channels these days.

[@endymionsrage]

The next Dungeon Crawler Carl Book is out soon and the Audiobook should come out in 2/2025. Loved the series so far - as an avid Gamer.

[@thefantasynuttwork]

@@endymionsrage nice!

[@jaya5264]

Jimmy, what book store do you frequent in the dmv area? You mentioned a book store where you’ve gotten Glen Cook books from, that’s not B&N.

[@thefantasynuttwork]

@@jaya5264 backwater books, they don’t always have them tho!

[@jaya5264]

@@thefantasynuttwork I’ll have to check them out next time I’m in that area.

[@joshramirez7]

I'm waiting for the day when Amazon closes down my account for always sampling and rarely buying! If I do buy, it's typically a physical book from my local store after sampling and all my digital books are library rentals haha

[@thefantasynuttwork]

@@joshramirez7 samples are so key

[@timeoccupied]

I'm fairly certain romantasy originated as a marketing buzz word for romance books with stronger worldbuilding and political intrigue focus compared to other romance books. In many online genre romance circles, it is actually extremely contentious to say a romantasy is a fantasy book. Many romance writers and readers are actually aggressively hostile towards fantasy authors who attempt to 'steal' the term romantasy to market a fantasy book with a strong romantic focus (romantic meaning there's no guarantee of a happily ever after aka HEA). In their opinion, fantasy authors want to cash in on romance dollars and are purposefully misleading readers about the HEA. There used to be a difference between romantic fantasy (fantasy subgenre) and fantasy romance (HEA required), but the popularization of romantasy as a term has muddied the waters. To the point where the online romance community feels even more ownership over the terms romance, romantic and any variation of it to market books. Ultimately I've seen it hurt a lot of self pub female fantasy authors who enjoy romantic aspects with more ambiguous or bittersweet endings.

[@thefantasynuttwork]

@@timeoccupied very interesting, thanks for sharing

[@jeroenadmiraal8714]

The gulag archipelago: dudebro

[@thefantasynuttwork]

@@jeroenadmiraal8714 hahahahhaha facts

[@jaya5264]

When is the Book of the New Sun read along? Is this invite only on discord? I’ve been wanting to read it.

[@thefantasynuttwork]

@@jaya5264 it’s something I believe talking story is hosting

[@andrewlavigne44]

dude bro's lit

[@thefantasynuttwork]

So bro, so lit

[@bobbob-cd9yl]

Man I would really love to know how we can get more boys reading, I will honestly say that Joanah is up to something in regards to how YA now has a lot more things marketed towards female readers and this could seem a wall to younger boys coming in? I do not really like the idea that we limit ourselves to books that are meant to "apeal to our gender" as that can be quite limiting. But as a guy I have NO male friends that read.

[@thefantasynuttwork]

@@bobbob-cd9yl it was rare when I was a kid as well, I was definitely an exception

[@watcherofthewest8597]

Good post. Go in a Barnes and nobles YA and it's basically all aimed at women...mostly first person female protag fighting an institution.

[@thefantasynuttwork]

@@bobbob-cd9yl to be fair though just cause new releases are maybe skewing to females doesn’t mean as much when you consider that there’s a millions of books that have been published prior that probably skew male or aren’t really aimed at all. I think we all tend to focus on new releases a bit too much, or even just current books, there’s so much out there from past decades that are amazing and worth reading. School libraries are where most teens will get their books and they generally aren’t going to carry a ton of new releases. I think a bigger issue is that my old middle school literally removed their library, no joke. When I heard that I was flabbergasted

[@shutdownseti2493]

I think the "dudebro" stuff isn't really an applicable term any more. The lit dudebro isn't really a stereotype anymore I feel. I think the lit dudebro is extinct. Because back in like the 2000s, early 2010s the lit dudebro was a guy who loved Infinite Jest, Thomas Pynchon, and yeah, probably stuff like Stoner, a college dude who was obsessed with these types of texts and often felt a wrongful kind of kinship with some of the problematic protagonists, the kind of guy who would lend every girl he dated a copy of Infinite Jest because it changed his life and he was often a bunch of walking red flags for a relationship. But those dudes just aren't around anymore, I feel. The college lit bro obsessed with Infinite Jest died off. Lowered literacy rates killed him 😂

[@thefantasynuttwork]

@@shutdownseti2493 yeah I largely agree, we were poking some fun at the idea 😂

[@ericF-17]

Sorry, but I have to agree with Allen, the old thumbnails are better. I don't want to strawman Johanna's argument on this, but I'm not exactly sure how to address it. I think it is absurd to state that a person's taste in books does not correlate with their personality, and I realize you guys may not be trying to say exactly that, but I just feel like I may be dealing with a perspective here that I'm trying to understand but just can't because its so incredibly foreign and incomprehensible to me, even if I'm possibly really not, so as I said I don't really know how to phrase what I'm saying. Like, of course I judge people by what books they read; it's one of the best ways I've found for doing that. I just can't comprehend the idea that my opinion of someone wouldn't be affected by whether or not they resonated similarly with a certain story or themes, or empathized with a certain character, or could understand a certain plot. Of course that doesn't mean I automatically hate anybody who likes different books from me, or that I'm not open to and willing to learn from differing perspectives. But if someone's criticisms of a book seem nonsensical and/or totally disconnected from the actual material in the book, then of course that is going to affect my opinion of their intelligence. How could it not? I'm also not trying to imply that fiction that might be seen as "lowbrow" or "pure escapism" is necessarily bad. I haven't read much "romantasy," for example, but I strongly suspect that I would actually enjoy much of it, and I believe it's probably extremely over-stigmatized in this corner of booktube. Although I think most amazing fiction will serve some sort of purpose beyond escapism, I do believe that almost ALL fiction, no matter how "literary" or "intellectual" is fundamentally escapist. Again, I understand that I may be overstating the extent of my disagreement with you two on this subject. I certainly agree with many of the points you guys made, and I think in reality that I probably actually agree with you on most of the relevant issues, with only a few minor disagreements. I'm just trying to state my opinion and push back against some implications that I disagree with. This was overall very enjoyable to watch and I think both of you are very smart people - I'm a bit sad I wasn't here live.

[@thefantasynuttwork]

@@ericF-17 sorry to hear ya don’t like the new thumbnails mate

[@currangill430]

So you like book 1s and hate stand alones, noted. I'll send you another one 😁

[@thefantasynuttwork]

@@currangill430 😭😭😭😭

[@thatsci-firogue]

Loving the conversation, but still don't understand what dudebro is, especially with citing Toll the Hounds as an example confused me. None of the major themes (from my memory) are unique to being male. Is it just that it happens to be told from a mostly male perspective? Not trying to be rude, just genuinely confused. Nilhism is often sterotyped as cynical and pessimistic, but I fail to see how those are male coded traits. Why should I care? I'm more of an Existentialist myself 😂

[@thefantasynuttwork]

@@thatsci-firogue we were kind of poking fun at the idea of dude bro at all existing lol

[@billyalarie929]

OH MY GOD HOW DARE YOU IMPEACH FROM IN THIS WAY (yes I took a break on this)

[@jaya5264]

Just finished swan song. Roland is a detestable character, like Harold

[@thefantasynuttwork]

@@jaya5264 yes

[@jimlahey6330]

It's odd how you talk about people being dismissive female readers while at the same time dismiss an entire section of male readers as "dudebro", especially when dudebro is used as a derogatory term to dismiss said men like 90% of the time.

[@thefantasynuttwork]

@@jimlahey6330 love the username btw! And I promise I was not actually dismissing dude bros, I’m classified as one constantly 😂 just having a bit of fun