Chiasmus in the Book of Mormon | 3 Mormons

[@bakachan3601]

A Big Mac metaphore without a special sauce joke from Kwaku? Also, if you have a Chiamus for more than four hours, you should consult a physician. ^^

[@BettyHorn]

Excellent video! I learned about this before, but you make me want to study it more in depth! Thanks!

[@KaitieAnn1995]

So, the first is the last and the last is the first?

[@seermormonart6649]

Fab guys! Its great that you are discussing this stuff in a way that is understandable to everyone. Great work :)

[@windywithachanceofsunshine5219]

Yes it makes it even clearer that the BoM is a fraud!

[@rosebud7105]

I noticed the chiasmus when I was reading the BoM but had no idea what they were called! Thanks, for the info guys. I'll continue to pray about this.

[@davidoconner3136]

Is chiasmus also found in Quakers book

[@rosebud7105]

Quakers read the Holy Bible and yes, as stated in the video the Holy Bible has chiasmus throughout the text.

[@worthingtonfamilyhomevideos]

A - Hickory dickory dock B - The mouse ran up the clock C - The clock struck one B' - The mouse ran down A' - Hickory dickory dock This 1744 chiastic rhyme came from the British Isles.

[@davidoconner3136]

Scammers go around saying something is true! Yes it's true. SCAM warning! Something for real never say's such stupid things.

[@davidoconner3136]

A Joseph Smith put a rock in his hat B Then constable put handcuffs on him C Click click click goes the lock B Joseph broke out the handcuffs and ran

[@burninator1983]

There is chiasmus in Shakespeare and Dr Seuss. The original Alice in Wonderland has more chiasmus in it than the BoM. Does that mean either of these examples have Hebrew origins?

[@g.davidturnblom5751]

This is a year late, but I recall reading a document that went into more detail on this subject. 1st Nephi is an almost perfect example of chiasmus. The entire book follows the pattern. I would also argue that on a meta state, the entire Book of Mormon is a chiasmus.

[@ResoluteDeicide]

Interesting video! I would love to see a video of some kind of a response to the problem with the Egyptian papyrus and the book of mormon. I've been looking for evidence of the book of mormon stay in the habit of eliminating bias and would like to see fair responses to more topics as was done with this one.

[@windywithachanceofsunshine5219]

I would love to hear a video about how they justify the papyri since the Rosetta Stone already proved that it was just a funerary document.

[@elipayne5343]

They've made a video about this now

[@Amytheproject]

Ok so I am Jewish , I believe in God. My boyfriend is Mormon . I started watching you guys because I'm trying to understand why people put their faith in this and for me except the book of Mormon as True because they feel it's true. In the old testament it says that your feelings and waiver and that just because something feels good doesn't mean it's right just because something feels that doesn't mean it's oF God.I wonder if even it is also a Jewish time text ,why does it mean it is then true ?I'm trying to learn :)

[@withkwaku]

No Chillary Excellent question! We'll make an episode addressing this!

[@Amytheproject]

Kwaku El awsome :) my comment is full of errors but also respect for others beliefs .

[@ianforsyth7804]

If the Book of Mormon is an authentic craft from Israelites and includes their syntax, grammar-structure, and metaphors then it is further evidence that the Book of Mormon is not a fabrication from Joseph Smith's mind. Evidence can be a great root to allow faith to flourish. We don't have to walk blindly. We can have faith in the Lord while we read and logically asses the the Book of Mormon as a text and come to know of it's sacredness. Logic and faith are not mutually exclusive as they both can benefit us mentally and spiritually.

[@davidoconner3136]

How come you respect others beliefs. Do you respect the moonies organization

[@lukesteele4510]

+no_chillary for me I accept the Book of Mormon as true because of the impact it has had on my life. Feeling is only part of the evidence. I would recommend that you study and ponder the method discussed in Alma Chapter 32, then apply that method to any search for truth. If the stories seem a little far fetched then treat them like parables, allegories or fables meant to teach a point or reinforce a principle at first. Though as you pursue your study you will find sufficient evidence to support a belief in even the stories that seem far fetched though never enough to prove one way or another since you must always have the option to make a choice whether or not you believe. It will also help if one reason for studying the Book of Mormon is to foster a deeper relationship with God in your life. Approached this way you may soon understand why your boy friend believes.

[@montanadevine3530]

I have just recently started reading The Book of Mormon and I noticed this pattern was used quite a bit I thought it must be written that way to reiterate the importance of what's being said and to make very clear what was meant by what had been said It's cool to know that this was an actual literary tool

[@burninator1983]

Montana Grant Dr Seuss books use chiasmus to reiterate things too

[@latter-daycanadian1341]

Canadians represent! Also we've been studying Chiasmus, and other Semitic literary devices used in the Book of Mormon in seminary. It's really cool!

[@ourlifeinwashington4114]

Makes me think of Yoda .

[@cole_castellano]

Great video

[@SaintsUnscripted]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@noahsoto9448]

Wild from start to finish

[@mmmika495]

Hey I worked at Cubby's!! I love that place!

[@Mrssteeleboi]

Thank you --soooooo fun!

[@caseyord346]

The Book of Mormon is such a religious intellectual property. #LDSlove

[@JeanlucDang87]

I am stuck on band-aid brand 'cause band-aid stuck on me.

[@UndefinedEssence]

John Welch is my great uncle. 😁

[@Hamann9631]

Here is how I would explain the importance of this subject. There is no way for an intellectually honest person to claim that Joseph Smith Junior created The Book of Mormon. It must be from God or the devil. One thing that Joseph Smith couldn't have done on his own is create a book with an ancient literary style. That fact by itself could be a coincidence but with all of the other evidences that exist add up to the fact that Joseph Smith couldn't have made it himself.

[@windywithachanceofsunshine5219]

Hamann9631, First, the Book of Mormon is mostly plagiarized from the bible, with changes. And most of all, there ARE no other evidences. The papyri were found to be wrong with the discovery of the Rosetta Stone and JS has NO witnesses for anything. There is NO archaeological evidence for anything. Period. Everything is made up.

[@Erica-jq8oj]

This was really interesting, wasn't it?

[@jjp1220]

But I thought Lehi family lived in Jerusalem so in Judah. The northern kingdom Isreal been whiped out of the map by the Assyrian Empire. So no longer existing in history.

[@sjames1012]

They lived in the "land of Jerusalem," probably at least close enough to the city too go there but not necessarily in the city proper. Some have suggested this location, for obvious reasons. beitlehi.org/

[@markschultz8982]

I was the BYU Wrestling Coach and an Olympic Champion. Chiasmus in Alma 36 was the evidence I used to join the church. I was told by one of my wrestlers that chiasmus is an ancient hebrew poetic device used in the memorization of long texts and significant spiritual events and was only found in ancient hebrew literature. 30 years later I saw a presentation by Chris Johnson that shows how many books in english contain much more chiasmus than the book of mormon. You say in this podcast "if the book of mormon is true it makes sense there would be chiasmus in it". Perhaps, but it also makes sense chiasmus would be in the book of mormon if joseph plagiarized the Book of Mormon from books like The First Book of Napolean, The Late War, View of the Hebrews, and the Bible, which all contain much more chiasmus than the book of mormon. I like your show. Keep seeking truth guys.

[@MattBeckstrom]

Simply mimicking the language style of an ancient text doesn't make itself an ancient text. I could write a book today written in the style of William Shakespeare. It doesn't mean it was written in the 16th century.

[@SaintsUnscripted]

Thanks for your comment. While it's true that mimicking the language style of an ancient text doesn't make it ancient, the rapidity with which the Book of Mormon was translated suggests that Joseph Smith couldn't have simply been mimicking the style. The book was translated in just a few months, which is a remarkable feat for a work of its length and complexity. Additionally, witnesses attest to seeing Joseph Smith use a seer stone to translate the text, which suggests that he was receiving the words directly from a divine source rather than simply imitating the style of an ancient text.

[@MattBeckstrom]

@@SaintsUnscripted I believe the witnesses lied. I don't believe there were any seer stones. The bible has several instances of chiasmus - I'll do it right now: "gather together the old and the young! Speak truth with the tongue and hear no lies! Your body shall be cold, but your spirit on fire!" I just did that in about 45 seconds.

[@russellash8458]

Chiasmus isn't very powerful as evidence because people can pull it from all sorts of texts if they try to (although the Book of Mormon's repetitive and redundant nature make it a particularly great source from which to construct them). To illustrate, people have found them in other modern writings such as those of John Taylor, Gilbert Hunt, or even the LDS gospel topics essays. Jared Demke has a website that gives all sorts of examples. James Strang's Book of the Law has a great example in its first chapter. Another really great example is Don Winegar's work identifying many of them in the Doctrine and Covenants. All of this suggests that these things can very reasonably be attributed to chance and the ability of humans to identify and construct patterns when they want to. Everyone seems to ask "but what about Alma 36," since it's a particularly long one. They feel this one can't be due to chance. Some studies designed by the Edwards brothers concluded that this chiasmus could not statistically be attributed to chance. But of course the data they applied their math to was first based on a lot of assumptions that are very much debatable. Earl Wunderli has a great article that makes some very valid points as to why their established criteria was problematic, and why this chiasmus is in many respects something that was squeezed or constructed out of the text by Welch (who first proposed it). And before you dismiss Wunderli's take without giving his reasoning serious consideration, you should note that even believing scholar and defender of the Book of Mormon Brant Gardner has gone on record stating the following: "After examining the evidence, I take Wunderli's side in concluding that the extended chiasmus of Alma 36 owes more to Welch's construction than to the plate text..." (The Gift & Power, pg 199, see footnote 7). Another believer, Blake Ostler, acknowledges that this chiasmus isn't impressive as evidence for different reasons. He notes that they contain elements that identify their content as modern in origin (he calls them "expansions" that were added by Joseph during translation). He notes: "Chiasmus can also be found in some nineteenth-century works, including the D&C. Thus, the assumption that chiasmus is an exclusively ancient poetic device appears to be false. Further, many Book of Mormon chiastic passages presuppose a doctrine of Christ developed beyond anything found in the Old Testament." (The BoM as a Modern Expansion of An Ancient Source, p. 100-101). I'm afraid that this video and many others from BoM Central are going to leave people with a very overstated sense of the power of this evidence.

[@LatterDaySigma]

👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

[@ianharris3502]

JS was a charlatan and was likely a literal genius. Chiasmus is not nearly as complex of a literary feature as you seem to suggest

[@ishoothi8]

It's actually really simple. Jesus is scripturally RICKROLLing you 2K yrs in advance and laughs every time people finally see it and go - bro, you can't just make this stuff up..........case closed

[@wtfschindler]

So how long as Kwaku been wearing a dress? Over his holy underwear..

[@daric_]

The Book of the Law of the Lord, written by James Strang, who tried to take control of the church after Joseph's death, also had chiasmus. He must have been the true prophet, not Brigham Young, right? Since chiasmus is proof of one's prophetic calling and no one back then had any idea what chiasmus was? There's documentation that's easily available that shows a large portion of the Book of Mormon is plagiarized or directly quoted from the King James Bible edition that Joseph owned (including all the errors in it). Is it any wonder it had chiasmus when he didn't even write most of it, but took it from elsewhere?

[@withkwaku]

Daric The NT quotes the OT. The BOM quotes the OT, Prophets have always quoted each other. The Bible is divided into many books that "plagarize" from each other. There's a reason scholars don't call religious texts, plagiarisms. This is because the nature of religious texts is to echo and quote leaders and prophets in that same religion. Chiasmus appears many places, we addressed that already. However, we also said Chiasmus doesn't prove The Book is true, it's just consistent. The Book is true. Thanks for watching.

[@johnlewis6526]

The chiasmus from the NT is from the BoM

[@redfightblue]

The Book of Mormon heavily plagiarized a book called "The Late War" published in 1816. This book has a 21 pair chiasmus.

[@jwjbros7926]

redfightblue Wheres your evidence?

[@jwjbros7926]

I thought it was Soloman Spaulding or the book written by Ethan Smith called The View Of The Hebrews..lol

[@Hamann9631]

redfightblue has made a stupid claim. I invite people to find a video that gives exact quotes. I found one on KZbin once. The people who made it proved themselves wrong. They found similar words scattered throughout but no exact quotes of even one sentence.

[@redfightblue]

Which claim was stupid? The fact that the Book Of Mormon plagiarized The Late War? Or the fact that The Late War has a 21 pair chiasmus?

[@Hamann9631]

redfightingblue. In an one and a half hour video that claimed to prove the plagiarism, there wasn't one single sentence that was the same. That is the definition of plagiarism. It is stupid to claim plagiarism when there isn't even one sentence that is an exact match.

[@thefractalbible8214]

You do not understand the Bible chiasmus. John W. Welch never understand the chiasmus Bible Code. He only studied a very simplistic feature about chiasmus in the Bible. Read my book entitled Bible X Code. Kind regards from Mexico City.

[@geoffnoyes520]

Chiasmus is an aspect of a style/method of writing, nothing more. The Lord Jesus spoke of people who 'strained at a gnat but swallowed a camel' ,as these three gentlemen are doing. After around 180 years of searching by Mormon archeologists and speculation by Mormon scholars, nil credible evidence has been found for the vast and sophisticated Jewish civilization Joseph Smith claimed lived in North, Or was it South America. The book of Mormon says that this civilization stretched from 'coast to coast'. It's buildings 'covered the land', and it's peoples 'numerous almost, as the sands of the sea', not to mention 38 Nephite cities, and a known battlefield where many thousands of armoured warriors perished. No credible evidence has been found for any of this, or will be. The book of Mormon is in reality probably the least correct book on earth that claims to be accurate history, it literally gets everything wrong, but for the dear Mormon faithful it is called 'the keystone of their faith', so they, and only they, continue fruitless efforts for any form evidence however small and tenuous,as we see in this LDS video. It must be perplexing. Lamanite/Nephite artifacts and ruins should cover the land or be found long ago, still filling museums. Such civilizations don't disappear without archeological trace, it's impossible. The Bible is far far superior to the book of Mormon in every possible way, but mainly that it is the truth, the word of God, and is the Christian believers only rule of faith. Mormons believe the Bible has been corrupted, (and that's their 8th article of faith) while believing that Joseph Smith's Book of Mormon is 'the most correct book on earth.' There lies the great and irreconcilable difference and divide between Mormonism and Biblical Christianity. Please read and trust the Holy Bible alone as God's complete and finished revelation to all mankind, trust the real (non Mormon) Jesus Christ and the true and everlasting gospel found only in its pages, the gospel that Joseph Smith tragically rejected and replaced with another gospel, and therefore another faith. Kind regards to all, especially dear Mormon folk.

[@levicarney1162]

How do you reconcile all of the restored gospel that we have that other Christian denominations ignore then that are in the Bible like the degrees of glory, the spirit world, God and Jesus being seperate personages, etc? Or Ezekiel 37:15-19 where the Book of Mormon is foretold?

[@renatomartinez8096]

how do i stop guys like these knocking at my door?its becoming a problem.and they tell me they want to help with anything.... they are so annoying.please stop.i don't want to be friends.

[@windywithachanceofsunshine5219]

Renato, Ask them questions they cannot answer, like "When was the great apostasy? Who created the first god? Where are there any archaeological artifacts from the great battle on the Hill of Comorrah? Where is the apostle John at this moment?" These are great stumpers and they will avoid your questions. They will most likely NEVER come back, either!

[@windywithachanceofsunshine5219]

@@matthewdawson9364 , how well do you know your church doctrine? Have you ever read the original BoM and compared it to the present book? Why have there been thousands of changes? The bible has never had one change. It is exactly like the original. It is truly the inspired Word.

[@windywithachanceofsunshine5219]

@@matthewdawson9364 , The bible has had dozens of versions. The versions are put in verbiage that the common man can understand but the actual translation remains steadfast. So no, there have never been actual changes. To change the bible is to change His holy word, and we are warned about that in Revelation!

[@levicarney1162]

​@@windywithachanceofsunshine5219 This is so incorrect, the Bible has parts missing and the translations are man made. What counts as the original Bible then? Hebrew? Greek? Ethiopian? The changes in the Book of Mormon were for ease of reading such as punctuation or adding chapters and verse numbers.

[@mikereif7240]

I didn't know the queer eye for the straight guys were mormans? I thought you had to be married to at least a dozen women to become celestial priesthood office holders. Too bad these three will never achieve that goal.