Why did the Book of Mormon have so many mistakes? | with Royal Skousen

Today we are so excited to release our exclusive interview with Latter-day Saints scholar, Royal Skousen! Royal has been researching Book of Mormon text for decades and decades. He knows A LOT about the Book of Mormon and has a lot of powerful information to share! Did Joseph Smith make up the Book of Mormon text? Was he inspired? Why were there so many mistakes in the Book of Mormon? Royal speaks to all of this and more! What did you learn from Royal? Let us know in the comments below! And for more episodes about the Book of Mormon, check out this playlist: • What is the Book of Mo...
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[@maroalexaraujosilva2448]

I don’t mind the grammar mistakes and the revisions, the message of the Book of Mormon makes me feel good and teaches everyone to come to Christ, and this makes the book very special to me. It is not through the perfect grammar that makes it special, but through the message beyond the lines, this is what we have to pay attention, yet during my long years knowing the book, I did not meet many, only few members of the church capable to see beyond the lines… I am glad for the Book of Mormon in my life!

[@lightwalker2655]

The “Latter Day Saints” jesus LITERALLY does not exist … neither does the “latter day Saints” god. The Mormon god once was a “created” mortal man, now lives “near” a star called kolob, likely has many many wives that bare billions of his children, and is the literal father of Satan, AND the “Latter Day Saints” god “ironically” teaches “Latter Day Saints” can become gods exactly like Satan desires to be a god. The Mormon - “Latter Day Saints” - god is a created, COMPLETELY UNBIBLICAL, polytheistic (multiple - endless - gods)likely polygamist, FALSE god. Christians do not believe in the same god or gospel as Mormons in any way shape or form. Christians believe in The One and Only True God Jesus Christ found in the Bible. Mormonism literally worships false gods. As Aposed to The True and Living Jesus Christ who is literally The One and Only God, creator of the universe and savior of the world! True Christians follow the one and ONLY Lord, God and savior Jesus Christ... not the false Mormon christ who is Satan’s bother. The deception is clearly revealed.

[@tzaylor]

@@lightwalker2655 The Book of Mormon teaches of Jesus Christ, the one and only. Unless you are saying there was more than one person named Jesus, mother named Mary, who died in order to conquer death and sin, and then came back as a resurrected being, it's the same being we are seeking. The Book of Mormon leads people to love Him. Just read it with an open mind, not a mind convinced by what others have told you, and you will find it is from God.

[@lightwalker2655]

@@tzaylor amazing how Mormonism so desperately wants to pretend their god is the same as The One and Only True Lord God Jesus Christ… it’s truly astonishing the deception. All the while ignoring the actual facts right in from of themselves. The “Latter Day Saints” jesus LITERALLY does not exist … neither does the “latter day Saints” god. The Mormon god once was a “created” mortal man, now lives “near” a star called kolob, likely has many many wives that bare billions of his children, and is the literal father of Satan, AND the “Latter Day Saints” god “ironically” teaches “Latter Day Saints” can become gods exactly like Satan desires to be a god. The Mormon - “Latter Day Saints” - god is a created, COMPLETELY UNBIBLICAL, polytheistic (multiple - endless - gods)likely polygamist, FALSE god. Christians do not believe in the same god or gospel as Mormons in any way shape or form. Christians believe in The One and Only True God Jesus Christ found in the Bible. Mormonism literally worships false gods. As Aposed to The True and Living Jesus Christ who is literally The One and Only God, creator of the universe and savior of the world! True Christians follow the one and ONLY Lord, God and savior Jesus Christ... not the false Mormon christ who is Satan’s bother. The deception is clearly revealed. If the false Mormon prophets were actually honest they would name their church an honest name. The most honest name of the Mormon church is The Church of S A T A N S B R O T H E R of Latter-Day Satan’s Brothers and Sisters That way the whole world would know the false “entity” that Mormons believe in. Also, that name would not offend ANY Mormon because it is in perfect harmony with Mormon doctrine. We all now know - full well - the false Mormon prophets (past and present) are literally documented, verified and proven whitewashers, deceivers and outright liars of Mormon history, doctrines and finances. They are literal proven liars. Even the false Mormon prophets are now attempting to explain away - on their very own web site - many historical facts that were previously called “anti-Mormon lies” - now the Mormon leaders are admitting that they are actually not lies, but actual true historical facts. Although much of their explanations are still whitewashed and full of flowery manipulation … why?? Because the False Mormon Prophets are literally “fearful liars” Revelations 21:8. Not telling the full truth - covering up - whitewashing - are ALL forms of deception, manipulation, and straight up lying!! Again…. The Mormon leaders are literally documented, verified and proven liars period … we all clearly know this. ANYONE actually honest with themselves and with God knows, Jesus Christ would never tell his “only true church” to whitewash, cover up, deceive and outright lie about its own history, finances and doctrines. That one fact alone proves Mormonism is a total false gospel. I truly pray that God will give you, and all Mormons, “eyes to see” and “ears to hear” the true gospel of Jesus Christ filled with unconditional love and grace. We pray in HIS name Jesus Christ, amen 🙏 Jesus is enough ❤️😇✝️🙏

[@virnan]

@@tzaylor Joseph Smith is a sham and you know it. He was supposed to be a prophet who was worthy enough to see the Trinity yet he was a sham. You have to admit it and those are facts. How could a prophet kill another human being like the con artist did?

[@paulw2117]

@@tzaylor it looks as some of these other people coming on here are representing members of the great and spacious building. There will be scoffers and naysayers of the last days.

[@ensignj3242]

I love The Book of Mormon. Because I obtained a personal witness of The Book of Mormon in my early 20’s, I do not falter when criticisms of the church , its leaders, or The Book of Mormon occur. It stands on its own.

[@avenged1110]

Unfortunately the actual truth is the Book of Mormon does not stand on its own. It’s a proven fabrication and plagiarism, full of anachronisms and ridiculous non-historical stories. The only way it stands is by people with literal self inflicted “blindness and deafness” - willing to ignore the actual proven facts right in front of them. Ignorance truly is bliss for the “self inflicted” blind, deaf Mormon apologists. We all now know - full well - your false Mormon prophets (past and present) are literally documented, verified and proven whitewashers, deceivers and outright liars of Mormon history, doctrines and finances. They are literal proven liars. Even the false Mormon prophets are now attempting to explain away - on their very own web site - many historical facts that were previously called “anti-Mormon lies” - now the Mormon leaders are admitting that they are actually not lies, but actual true historical facts. Although much of their explanations are still whitewashed and full of flowery manipulation … Why?? Because the False Mormon Prophets are literally “fearful liars”… they fear the FULL TRUTH of Mormonism knowing full well if they taught the Complete and Honest TRUTH of Mormonism’s history, doctrines, and financial affairs to their members… their church would crumble into oblivion, and their worldly power and glory and riches would disappear! So of course they lie with great cunning and deception! The false Mormon prophets LITERALLY FEAR THE TRUTH - knowing full well the truth will FREE their followers from the awful chains of the massive Mormon manipulation and deception! Revelation 21:8 “But the FEARFUL, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and ALL LIARS, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.” The false Mormon prophets are fearful liars - and if they do not repent and denounce the Mormon “false gospel” about a “false christ” and admit they deceive “with great signs and wonders” as they steal the name of Jesus Christ and put it in their name and on their books and churches! If they do not repent - then the SECOND DEATH awaits them .. they will be cut off from the One and Only Lord God JESUS CHRIST… and cast in to the lake of fire… as it is clearly revealed in Relations 21:8. And so it is clear! “The Great and Spacious Building” of Mormonism is literally cracking and crumbling under the shear weight of ALL THE LIES and DECEPTIONS forced down upon it by the false Mormon prophets! Repent and come unto The One and Only True God, creator of the universe and savior of the world - Jesus Christ - who is full of love and grace! Amen Jesus is enough

[@stanleyhall8951]

@@avenged1110 what does it matter?

[@stanleyhall8951]

@@avenged1110 what do you preach? or what are your beliefs? Do you dare say?

[@stanleyhall8951]

Sorry I don't know why you or Shawn Bradford of tapir rider get so angry.

[@avenged1110]

@@stanleyhall8951 “Do you dare say?” … oh my my .. the arrogance and ignorance of the self inflicted “blind and deaf” anti-Christian … it is truly astonishing to witness! We are saved by the grace and love of Jesus Christ - right now - in real time - WE ARE SAVED by the blood of Jesus! The Spirit of God and his Truth has made us free from the awful chains of Mormonism’s manipulation and deception. Jesus Christ has written his name on our hearts and we are born again NEW Children of God! Our minds and Spirts are now a part of the worldwide body of Christ - His Only True Church! We have become part of the temple of Jesus Christ, and are now among his True Christian disciples! Jesus Christ truly is The One and Only God, Prophet, Priest and King, creator of the universe and savior of the world! Amen and Amen! … we NOW live in complete honesty and integrity … and our lives have more peace, love and harmony than we ever thought possible as Mormons. It is glorious! Jesus truly is enough. My wife and I grew up our whole lives deceived Mormons. All our extended families were - some still are - deceived Mormons. Knowing NOW full well the PROVEN deception, indoctrination, manipulation, whitewashing and outright lies. We continuously pray to Our Lord God Jesus Christ to rescue the deceived from the proven lies and manipulation of Mormonism. Because of our unyielding testimony of Our Lord God, creator of the universe and savior of the world, Jesus Christ, we will NEVER stop defending The One and Only God Jesus Christ against the horrific and obvious Mormon WAR on Jesus Christ and his True Christian followers. The Word of God clearly testifies against Mormonism and we know those Mormons who are actually honest with themselves and with God will come unto the True Biblical Jesus Christ and denounce the obviously false polytheistic, likely polygamist, 100 percent NON-BIBLICAL, “created”, Mormon god. For those Mormons who are interested in being honest with themselves and with God ... here is a wonderful place to “START” learning about the MASSIVE whitewashing and lies of Mormonism. Dan Vogel is a world renown Mormon Scholar and Historian ... he has dozens and dozens of documentary style KZbin videos of documented, verified and proven Mormon History. Please Jesus … even if this individual denies you … please touch the hearts, minds and souls of those Mormons that desire to be honest with themselves and with with you dear Lord God. Please give them “eyes to see and ears to hear” please break the dark deception chains of Mormonism that secretly bind them down. In your name Jesus Christ Amen

[@evelynellsworth6211]

I took a History of the English Language class from Prof Skousen, and it was absolutely fantastic! I admire him so much

[@AlexBrown9635]

Never in my life have I clicked so fast as when I saw Royal Skousen and Saints Unscripted in the same video 😂

[@MrRickb75645]

Yes , as soon as I saw. Skousen. I clicked. Because I thought it might be Cleon Skousen. He is one of my favorite authors and historians. I've read many of his books. But then I found this wasn't the same guy. I was still fascinated beyond belief. Things I never thought of before. Amazing.

[@LiberLady]

​@@MrRickb75645To clarify, W Cleon Skousen died in 2006 at the age of 92.

[@Leowinegar]

I'd like to share my opinion about the statements from witnesses about Joseph not allowing the scribes to continue if they wrote down an error. I personally believe that Joseph worked closely with his scribes to ensure that the words were correctly written down. He may have repeated words or phrases multiple times in an attempt to prevent errors. The fact that their were so few corrections (relatively speaking) in the original and printer's manuscripts should be counted as evidence of a very careful dictation process. Anyway, we can clearly tell from Royal's research that it wasn't a perfect dictation, but that shouldn't be counted as evidence that Joseph never corrected his scribes. So, these statements probably shouldn't get a "completely false" classification in my opinion. Like everything, there is probably some gray area here. Joseph and his scribes weren't perfect, but they did an amazing job all things considered. Great video guys! For anyone who might be interested, like Royal, I have a similar testimony regarding the historicity (ancient origin) of the Book of Mormon. When I was 18 I was preparing to serve a mission and was skeptical about the origin of the Book of Mormon. I thought that Joseph could have created it, so I asked, "God who wrote this text?" As I was reading in Omni, I read verse 9 and it surprised me. I wondered to myself, "why would Joseph create this random character named Chemish, who produced just a single verse?" I was being skeptical of my skepticism of Joseph being a prophet and it was in that moment that I had a vision. I saw an ancient looking man who I identified as Chemish. He seemed flustered and tired in life, and I knew in that moment that he really existed. That vision led me to kneel down and ask, "Is the Book of Mormon true? Was it written by ancient prophets?" That's when I felt the Holy Ghost speak peace to my heart and I knew that the Book of Mormon is true.

[@lightwalker2655]

The “Latter Day Saints” jesus LITERALLY does not exist … neither does the “latter day Saints” god. The Mormon god once was a “created” mortal man, now lives “near” a star called kolob, likely has many many wives that bare billions of his children, and is the literal father of Satan, AND the “Latter Day Saints” god “ironically” teaches “Latter Day Saints” can become gods exactly like Satan desires to be a god. The Mormon - “Latter Day Saints” - god is a created, COMPLETELY UNBIBLICAL, polytheistic (multiple - endless - gods)likely polygamist, FALSE god. Christians do not believe in the same god or gospel as Mormons in any way shape or form. Christians believe in The One and Only True God Jesus Christ found in the Bible. Mormonism literally worships false gods. As Aposed to The True and Living Jesus Christ who is literally The One and Only God, creator of the universe and savior of the world! True Christians follow the one and ONLY Lord, God and savior Jesus Christ... not the false Mormon christ who is Satan’s bother. The deception is clearly revealed.

[@MichaelSmith-fq3pg]

@@lightwalker2655 Your constant copy/paste of the same thing is serously obnoxious. It gets in the way, doesn't change anyone's mind, and pisses off everyone who isn't you. Pretty please, with sugar, just go away.

[@lightwalker2655]

@@MichaelSmith-fq3pg the Truth always offends those of whom it convicts… We will never “go away” … we will testify of The One And Only Lord God Jesus Christ, the creator of the universe and savior of the world. The Mormon hypocrisy is breathtaking! Mormonism literally repeats its self at nauseam! Mormons apologists - just like you -,CANT STAND individuals pointing out the ACTUAL TRUTH of the Mormon deception and manipulation! The very foundation of Mormonism literally starts off condemning and “attacking” all other churches ... Mormonism’s “official version” of Joseph Smith’s first vision ... (which is actually the FOURTH version of at least NINE other totally different versions of the “first vision”) ... it clearly condemns and “ATTACKS” all other churches (JSH 1:19) saying ... ALL churches are wrong, ALL their creeds are an ABOMINATION to God, and ALL their professors are CORRUPT .... Mormonism literally “DAMNS” the whole world with MORE of their demeaning viscous and attacking Anti-Christian doctrine. Just read (1 Nephi 14:10) it literally says there are ONLY 2 churches, the church of God (Mormons) and the Church of the DEVIL (everyone else). Then it literally goes on to say, “whoso belongeth NOT to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the WHORE of all the earth!” THEN ... while Mormons own foundational doctrine condemns all other religions.... Mormons take a play right out of Satan’s playbook using massive deception techniques... ... crying and complaining about Mormon “religious persecution” ...and telling people to “love one another” ... all the while literally persecuting the whole world with their own words and condemning doctrine... What the??? That is so horribly hypocritical, arrogant, and dismissive ... I think we are getting a hint who their real leader is ... let’s continue... Christians will NEVER stop defending themselves and their Lord, God and Savior, Jesus Christ from the “Mormon war” on Christianity. True Christians will defend themselves against ALL (including Mormons) who attack the TRUE Jesus Christ who is the One and Only God, creator of all the universe and savior of the world...just as we have been doing for thousands of years. FACT ... Mormons do NOT believe Jesus is the One and Only God! FACT .... Mormonism actually teaches Jesus is Satan’s Brother NOT the One and Only God, creator of the universe and savior of the world... FACT .... Mormons believe God was once a mortal man ... and his father and grandfather (on an on) were ALL once mortal men as well!! Mormonism literally teaches “polytheism” (endless Gods) ... Mormons literally think they TOO can become a God EXACTLY like Satan thinks he can be a god! The deception is clearly revealed! Again ... wake up! FACT ... The false Mormon prophets and apostles literally teach God was once a little man like them! And not only that - Gods father and Grandfather - on and on forever - were ALL little men too ...”polytheism” ENDLESS GODS!! FACT .... Mormonism literally preaches “another gospel” just as in Galatians 1:8-9 “ “But though we, or an angel from heaven (Moroni), preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, if any man (Joseph Smith) preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.” And FACT ... the Mormon “Other Gospel” literally preaches about a “false Christ” by “false prophets”, who “deceive the elect with great signs and wonders”. Exactly as it says in Matt 24:24 “For there shall arise false Christs (brother of Satan), and false prophets (Mormon leaders), and shall shew great signs and wonders (Book of Mormon); insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect (you).” FACT ... The false Mormon prophets and apostles literally TAKE DOWN the cross of Jesus and hide it away ... then PUT UP a giant Golden man/angel atop all its temples. FACT ... Mormonism mocks Jesus Christ and his atoning sacrifice on the cross by teaching Jesus and his atonement - ALONE - was NOT enough to save the word! Mormonism teaches you MUST pay the Mormon Church in order to get into the temple, in order to have “saving ordinances” in order to be “saved” to the highest “Mormon version” of “heaven” with God. Then “maybe” after that ... the Mormon version of Jesus can save them ... “maybe”. FACT .... The false Mormon prophets and apostles literally STOLE the name of Jesus and put it on their churches and temples... and by doing so.... AGAIN ... “deceive the elect with great signs and wonders”. FACT .... Mormonism “says” it follows Jesus. Then Mormonism mocks Jesus with it’s evil doctrines that diminish the power and authority of God ... and elevate mans “power and authority” to becoming Gods ... exactly like Satan wants to be God! The deception is clearly revealed! FACT ... Mormons fight against ALL other Christians with their horrible doctrines! Hello! That is literally the DEFINITION of being “ANTI-CHRISTIAN”! Wake up ... Mormons are BY DEFINITION Anti-Christian AND in a quasi Christian cult and they don’t even know it! So sad ... yet so so revealing. Again ... Jesus surely did say Love One another. And one of the most powerful and true forms of Love is being 100% honest and telling the COLD HARD TRUTH. Which is exactly what we are doing as we defend Jesus against the Mormon War on Jesus and his True Christian ✝️ followers! Unlike The false Mormon prophets and apostles that are FACTUALLY and literally documented, verified and proven whitewashers, deceivers, and outright LIARS of Mormonism’s history, doctrines and finances! THEY are proven LIARS.. and continue to lie!! Satan is the father of ALL lies!! Hello 👋!!! It’s very obvious who leads the quasi Christian cult of Deception- as Satan steals Jesus Christ’s name ... and by doing so Satan is deceiving the very elect! so so sick. Wake up!! Anyone truly HONEST with themselves and with God knows .... Jesus Christ would NEVER tell his “only true church” to whitewash, cover up, deceive and outright lie about its REAL history, doctrines and finances... NEVER! That one fact alone proves Mormonism is a false gospel! FACT ... If the false Mormon prophets and apostles were truly honest, they would name the Mormon church an honest name! The most honest name of the Mormon church is: The Church of S A T A N S B R O T H E R of Latter-Day Satan’s Bothers and Sisters FACT ... That way the world would know the FALSE entity Mormons actually believe in … Also, that name would not offend any Mormon because it is in perfect line with Mormon doctrine. For those Mormons who are interested in being honest with themselves and with God ... here is a wonderful place to “START” learning about the MASSIVE whitewashing and lies of Mormonism. Dan Vogel is a world renown Mormon Scholar and Historian ... he has dozens and dozens of documentary style KZbin videos of documented, verified and proven Mormon History! 👍❤️👍 I pray God will bless you with “eyes to see and ears to hear” in HIS name Jesus Christ, Amen 🙏 God Bless 😇✝️❤️ please continue with your reply’s. .. they are so revealing... keep speaking as we all clearly see the enormous “black pit” of Mormon deception... and clearly witness the TRUE Jesus Christ fill it with his truth, light and ❤️ love! Amen 🙏 Jesus is ENOUGH 😇✝️❤️🙏

[@jakeseward9035]

Hello, I would just like to encourage you to use more than feelings to know what is true. God has told us specifically not to trust our hearts as they are wicked and deceiving. Truth should be found through study and prayer to seek wisdom not feelings. Emotions are the easiest thing to manipulate. You should study any cult specifically identifying the BITE model that all of them use to manipulate the emotions of the people they get to believe their lies. Study any cult you like so that you don't have any personal bias as you do the research then take an honest look at the church. They use all of the the same tactics from the BITE model to manipulate peoples emotions into believing their teachings instead of any facts or evidence that proves it is a false religion. Please study the authenticity of the Bible and then actually study the New Testament book of John from the perspective of a child letting it teach you instead of reading it looking for verses that seem to teach what you have been taught they teach. The entire church is built on taking verses out of context to use as evidence to support their claims.

[@davidyuwa1598]

Hehehe

[@tylerwastl2624]

I was companions in the Mexico MTC with Royal's grandson!

[@DigitallySaved]

As a non mormon. I found this video to be extremely honest and informative. Very well done.

[@SaintsUnscripted]

Thank you ❤️

[@toddgiberson4330]

I love this interview and the knowledge presented by Royal Skousen. This needs to soak in to the LDS mainstream understanding.

[@avenged1110]

We all now know - full well - your false Mormon prophets (past and present) are literally documented, verified and proven whitewashers, deceivers and outright liars of Mormon history, doctrines and finances. They are literal proven liars. Even the false Mormon prophets are now attempting to explain away - on their very own web site - many historical facts that were previously called “anti-Mormon lies” - now the Mormon leaders are admitting that they are actually not lies, but actual true historical facts. Although much of their explanations are still whitewashed and full of flowery manipulation … Why?? Because the False Mormon Prophets are literally “fearful liars”… they fear the FULL TRUTH of Mormonism knowing full well if they taught the Complete and Honest TRUTH of Mormonism’s history, doctrines, and financial affairs to their members… their church would crumble into oblivion, and their worldly power and glory and riches would disappear! So of course they lie with great cunning and deception! The false Mormon prophets LITERALLY FEAR THE TRUTH - knowing full well the truth will FREE their followers from the awful chains of the massive Mormon manipulation and deception! Revelation 21:8 “But the FEARFUL, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and ALL LIARS, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.” The false Mormon prophets are fearful liars - and if they do not repent and denounce the Mormon “false gospel” about a “false christ” and admit they deceive “with great signs and wonders” as they steal the name of Jesus Christ and put it in their name and on their books and churches! If they do not repent - then the SECOND DEATH awaits them .. they will be cut off from the One and Only Lord God JESUS CHRIST… and cast in to the lake of fire… as it is clearly revealed in Relations 21:8. And so it is clear! “The Great and Spacious Building” of Mormonism is literally cracking and crumbling under the shear weight of ALL THE LIES and DECEPTIONS forced down upon it by the false Mormon prophets! Repent and come unto The One and Only True God, creator of the universe and savior of the world - Jesus Christ - who is full of love and grace! Amen Jesus is enough

[@williamjameslehy1341]

>soak Oof.

[@kenton6804]

@@williamjameslehy1341 The fact that idea exists is the oof, the word itself is not an oof.

[@44hawk28]

I'd also like to add that being American Indian, it speaks to me in ways that cannot be elucidated easily. Such things as I've learned that the Mississippi River, Namo Cebu. Good enough for the American Indian vernacular. Actually means fish river. Which is what the Egyptian word Sidon means. At least that's my understanding. And the word Tennessee is another Egyptian word, which surprisingly, names the land of Isis. The ancient Egyptian word that refers to the mother of the Son of God is Mar'e.

[@tuerisenikuraciri9912]

The message is more important than the small mistakes.

[@Jpink-rd5hq]

I'm not a scholar and I'm not very intellectual. So I'm not caught up in mistakes. For myself I am content knowing for myself that I know the stick of Judah and stick of Joseph are one book in thine hand which I know is true through reading scriptures searching scriptures and seeking and asking the Lord . I got my answer and that's good e ought for me

[@cabarete2003]

That was great of him to do this video.

[@samhendricks332]

I watched the video and was kinda hoping he would go over the king James to Joseph smith translation concern. (3Nephi15:25-27, Mathew 6:25-27 King James, Mathew 6:25-27 JST) I don't think little grammar errors are cause for concern but, in my opinion the king James errors showing up in the book of mormon is. Does anyone know if there are resources addressing this?

[@ForrestHoward]

Jim Bennett addresses it in his CES letter response, and on the "Mormonism with the Murph" podcast, he's helped me clear a lot of things up. In his CES letter response, he directly addresses these verses: "Here’s 3 Nephi 13:25 in full: And now it came to pass that when Jesus had spoken these words he looked upon the twelve whom he had chosen, and said unto them: Remember the words which I have spoken. For behold, ye are they whom I have chosen to minister unto this people. Therefore I say unto you, take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment? So it turns out the Book of Mormon directs this passage to the apostles and not to the church membership at large and therefore departs from the KJV in precisely the same way the JST does, only it does so using different language. Thus the JST isn’t correcting the Book of Mormon at all; they’re both saying the same thing." -Page 29 of "A CES Letter Reply: Faithful Answers For Those Who Doubt"

[@bobbycecere1037]

Check out the kingdom of the Cults, by Walter Martin. That is the best deep dive into Mormon Theology and history I've ever come across. He does an entire section on the King James errors that made their way into Smith's translation. Smith wasn't shy about plagiarism. He lifts almost entire chapters word-for-word.

[@777johbro]

Loved this interview! Love that you guys are bringing experts on to talk about what they've found.

[@tuerisenikuraciri9912]

Experts also lied or found lying many times. They are not perfect, ar times they based their evidences on presumtion or assumption. An expert with the gift or help of the Holy Spirit is always proved correct or right......however, the world expert always try to confuse the facts to become unbelievable.

[@tuerisenikuraciri9912]

Cocomelon

[@jovelynsibayan2431]

I love the Book of Book of Mormon it changes every one's life!

[@avenged1110]

We all now know - full well - your false Mormon prophets (past and present) are literally documented, verified and proven whitewashers, deceivers and outright liars of Mormon history, doctrines and finances. They are literal proven liars. Even the false Mormon prophets are now attempting to explain away - on their very own web site - many historical facts that were previously called “anti-Mormon lies” - now the Mormon leaders are admitting that they are actually not lies, but actual true historical facts. Although much of their explanations are still whitewashed and full of flowery manipulation … Why?? Because the False Mormon Prophets are literally “fearful liars”… they fear the FULL TRUTH of Mormonism knowing full well if they taught the Complete and Honest TRUTH of Mormonism’s history, doctrines, and financial affairs to their members… their church would crumble into oblivion, and their worldly power and glory and riches would disappear! So of course they lie with great cunning and deception! The false Mormon prophets LITERALLY FEAR THE TRUTH - knowing full well the truth will FREE their followers from the awful chains of the massive Mormon manipulation and deception! Revelation 21:8 “But the FEARFUL, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and ALL LIARS, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.” The false Mormon prophets are fearful liars - and if they do not repent and denounce the Mormon “false gospel” about a “false christ” and admit they deceive “with great signs and wonders” as they steal the name of Jesus Christ and put it in their name and on their books and churches! If they do not repent - then the SECOND DEATH awaits them .. they will be cut off from the One and Only Lord God JESUS CHRIST… and cast in to the lake of fire… as it is clearly revealed in Relations 21:8. And so it is clear! “The Great and Spacious Building” of Mormonism is literally cracking and crumbling under the shear weight of ALL THE LIES and DECEPTIONS forced down upon it by the false Mormon prophets! Repent and come unto The One and Only True God, creator of the universe and savior of the world - Jesus Christ - who is full of love and grace! Amen Jesus is enough

[@spencerdudas691]

@@avenged1110 We agree that Jesus is enough. The Book of Mormon is literally a second testament of Jesus Christs ministry on Earth. Jesus is MORE than enough. I hope that you are free of sin yourself as you cast stones at those who you are critical of and have disagreements with.

[@avenged1110]

@@spencerdudas691 wow! The hypocrisy is breathtaking! “Free of sin as you cast stones” … the ignorance of your comment is astonishing! The very foundation of Mormonism literally starts off by “CASTING STONES” by “insulting, condescending”, condemning and “attacking” all other churches ... what the??? The Mormon hypocrisy is truly breathtaking … Mormonism literally calls all churches wrong.. and you are pathetically worried about true Christians defending the One and Only True God Jesus Christ against Mormonism??? When you’re own churches doctrine literally trashes all other religions?? The arrogance and hypocrisy is breathtaking …. ignorance truly is bliss for this anti-Christian. Mormonism’s “official version” of Joseph Smith’s first vision ... (which is actually the FOURTH version of at least NINE other totally different versions of the “first vision”) ... it clearly condemns and “ATTACKS” all other churches (JSH 1:19) saying ... ALL churches are wrong, ALL their creeds are an ABOMINATION to God, and ALL their professors are CORRUPT .... Mormonism literally “DAMNS” the whole world with MORE of their demeaning viscous and attacking Anti-Christian doctrine. Just read (1 Nephi 14:10) it literally says there are ONLY 2 churches, the church of God (Mormons) and the Church of the DEVIL (everyone else). Then it literally goes on to say, “whoso belongeth NOT to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the WHORE of all the earth!” THEN ... while Mormons own foundational doctrine condemns all other religions.... Mormons take a play right out of Satan’s playbook using massive deception techniques... ... crying and complaining about Mormon “religious persecution” ...and telling people to “love one another” ... all the while literally persecuting the whole world with their own words and condemning doctrine... What the??? That is so horribly hypocritical, arrogant, and dismissive ... I think we are getting a hint who their real leader is ... Christians will NEVER stop defending themselves and their Lord, God and Savior, Jesus Christ from the “Mormon war” on Christianity. True Christians will defend themselves against ALL (including Mormons) who attack the TRUE Jesus Christ who is the One and Only God, creator of all the universe and savior of the world...just as we have been doing for thousands of years. I pray God will bless you with “eyes to see and ears to hear” in HIS name Jesus Christ, Amen … God Bless … so please continue with your reply’s. .. they are so revealing... keep speaking as we all see you continuously dig the enormous “black pit” of Mormon deception... and clearly witness the TRUE Jesus Christ fill it with his truth, light and love! Amen Jesus is ENOUGH

[@stanleyhall8951]

@@avenged1110 not all of us know full well. sorry.

[@avenged1110]

@@stanleyhall8951 deny deny deny. Ignorance certainly is bliss for the indoctrinated Mormon apologists.

[@jackburton307]

Those Isiah passages in the BoM have the same errors as the KJV Bible and are exactly the same as the KJV. That has always struck me as odd.

[@briandavis6898]

I don't find it odd at all considering the path from original to the printing and how anyone could have "corrected" the text to match the Bible.

[@jackburton307]

@@briandavis6898 but that isn't true. The original BoM Isaiah text haven't changed at all and are exactly the same as what is in the current BoM.

[@briandavis6898]

@@jackburton307 because we don't have the original manuscript of the book of Mormon (which you would know if your watched the video) and it wasn't until then late 1981 publication when the church went to early manuscripts to correct century old errors. And simply put, we don't have a source to compare to.

[@jackburton307]

@@briandavis6898 we have the first edition BoM that was printed off the manuscript and the Isaiah passages are exactly the same as the current edition of the BoM. Are you saying the first edition BoM is not the same as the original manuscript? Regardless, that reasoning makes no sense with the Isaiah passages. You're telling me someone purposely change the first edition BoM Isaiah text to copy verbatim the KJV of the Bible (translation error and all) when they were different on the original manuscript? You do realize how absurd that sounds, right?

[@briandavis6898]

@@jackburton307 the first edition was made from the printers manuscript not the original manuscript, and all three had errors in them that Joseph Smith began to correct. Did you even watch the video?

[@edbutzwiggle4227]

Fascinating ! thanks

[@fsmith45]

I noticed that he talked about how the vocabulary is more similar to that of the late 1500s to 1600s than of the 1800s. I think the most likely explanation, regardless of whether or not the book is true, is that it was written to match the KJV bible (translated in the 1500s), as that was Joseph’s standard of scripture. Since the Book of Mormon would have been translated by revelation and not by actually knowing the language, it would be expected that Smith would perceive it in the same vernacular as the KJV rather than in the way that it was originally written.

[@michaelbennett7561]

If God gave the translation, God could clothe the writing style in whatever manner He saw fit. I think that the translation given to Joseph Smith was word for word, and that God was responsible for the writing style, and chose it deliberately.

[@randallwall2745]

Except they are the exact verses including the mistakes from that version of the Bible.. so plagiarized.

[@fsmith45]

@@randallwall2745 Regardless of if the Book of Mormon is really scripture or not, all the stuff that you are saying is copied is either cited to an Old Testament prophet or is Jesus repeating himself to different people. You aren’t pointing out a mistake, you’re pointing out a feature.

[@michaelbennett7561]

@@randallwall2745 Which "mistakes" from the Bible are you referring to?

[@MrRickb75645]

Cleon Skousen wrote the first 2000 years, the third thousand years, and the fourth thousand years. Read all three. And was into his second book on the book of mormon. When my euesight started deteriating . Love his work. Just wanted to know ifbtheyre kin.

[@lightrevolutionsdotcom9415]

Great job! Such an insightful analysis.

[@Tofflemire5]

In the end, there are those who accept spiritual revelation to find truth... or those who don't want to find the truth.

[@44hawk28]

I have a question. I've learned that there are some burbage's within the 1879 Edition, that have been redacted. I'm trying to remember what it was that I heard specifically that it referred to. And I also happen to have found out that about 64 verses of the Joseph Smith testimony Bible we're never entered into that particular script. Under the guise that well it wouldn't have fit into the binder. Which is kind of stupid because then all you need to do is make the binder large enough for the amount of pages that you're having to bind? I am currently in the market or looking to see if I can find an 1879 Book of Mormon. As I have come to the conclusion that several of the earlier heads of the church decided to make some changes or keep some of the Joseph Smith translation from being known because it would have clearly indicated that polygamy was never sanctioned by Joseph Smith himself. And the more I study the information within the church history the more I'm coming to that conclusion. Which only begs the question as to who was actually behind it and what were they up to at the time of Joseph Smith when he was still alive when Joseph Smith was clearly out to try and expose these people.

[@patricianoel7782]

BAD GRAMMAR IS HARDLY MY ISSUE!! How about you all read “No Man Knows” and “RoughStone “

[@rockartalan]

I read Rough Stone Rolling and I am finishing up No Man Knows My History. No Man... has strengthened my testimony of Joseph Smith as much as any book I have read. So What is your main issue with the Book of Mormon?

[@sarak6860]

Besides Polyandry, it was the science that did it for me. DNA, Archaeological issues, and Linguistics showing no relationship of our indigenous languages to Hebrew or Egyptian.

[@alanbylund2659]

@@sarak6860 Just because critics tell you that DNA, archaeology and linguistics show evidence against the authenticity of the Book of Mormon, doesn’t mean they actually do. They actually do not. And in reality, archaeology and linguistics are strong evidence supporting the authenticity of the Book of Mormon. If you do a deeper dive into DNA and the Book of Mormon you will find that it is impossible to use this science to prove or disprove the Book of Mormon. We don’t have enough information about Lehi’s DNA to know what to match it to for one thing. The critics base all of their argument here on false assumptions and zero science. If you want more details on this or want to learn the reality of archaeology and linguistics with the Book of Mormon, tell me precisely which argument the critics make that you want debunked and I will be glad to do the deep dive with you.

[@alanbylund2659]

@@thebenplatt Thanks for sharing your concerns. First of all, the ways the Father and the Son are described in the version we use today do not contradict what we find in the first edition. Please remember that it is easy to assume contradictions in any human conversation, especially if you are looking for contradictions. It is more difficult to find understanding. Experts agree that in the vast majority of arguments between people they would actually be agreeing with each other if they truly understood each other. Conflict and misunderstanding naturally happen without effort to understand. Critics of the Book of Mormon take advantage of this human tendency and seek misunderstanding instead of understanding. I can easily show you how the passages they use to show contradiction can easily be understood to be harmonious. Once you understand the bigger picture, harmony actually makes more sense than the assumption of contradiction. The DNA problem actually doesn’t exist. The scientific facts here cannot be scientifically applied to the Book of Mormon. Any bonafide population geneticist will tell you that it is impossible to use DNA to prove or disprove the authenticity of the Book of Mormon. Check out this video and the links in its description if you really want to understand this complex issue. kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y6q9aIp7m7WCrpo There are indeed languages that can be described as “reformed Egyptian”. In fact almost every form of Egyptian can be described as reformed Egyptian. This is one of the more silly arguments made by critics. Anachronisms can actually be used as support FOR the Book of Mormon much better than they can be used against it. But you need to know all of the facts available to see the whole picture here. If you consider all of the anachronisms critics have assumed about the Book of Mormon and compare that to how many have since been proven to not be anachronistic, you will see that the tables are turned quite dramatically here. Let me know if you want to do a deep dive on this and I would love to do that with you. Plagiarism is another quite silly argument of the critics when you consider all of the facts. I’d be glad to go into greater depth here as well if you wish. When you examine the actual claims of plagiarism and what Joseph Smith claimed, it is clear that nothing even fits the definition of what plagiarism is. The assumption that Joseph was convicted of a crime involving “glass looking” is false. It is referring to an examination by a judge with witnesses in 1826. This was not a trial but only an examination and therefore could not have resulted in any kind of verdict. Here’s a link to an article that breaks this down: www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/conference/august-2002/the-1826-trial-of-joseph-smith It is understandable to balk at the claim of physical instruments used in the divine translation process or for other purposes by someone claiming to be a prophet of God. But such aids to facilitate the communication of God’s power and inspiration are consistent with accounts in the Bible. In addition to the Urim and Thummim, the Bible mentions other physical instruments used to access God’s power: the rod of Aaron, a brass serpent, holy anointing oils, the Ark of the Covenant, and even dirt from the ground mixed with saliva to heal the eyes of a blind man. Joseph of Egypt owned a cup that the Bible claims he used for divining. Just because the Bible points out that Satan can inspire misuse of such things does not mean they cannot be used for God’s purposes or in innocent ways. Doesn’t the fact that many of the witnesses later became disaffected from the church and even enemies of Joseph Smith without ever denying their testimony overwhelmingly outweigh the fact that they were related to each other or were friends at the time of their witness? The Hill Cumorah issue is also a nonissue. Most scholars believe that the hill in NY is not the same hill the Book of Mormon calls Cumorah. The original one in the book could be anywhere in the Americas. There are not enough clues in the text to positively identify any specific geographic location in the Americas mentioned in the Book of Mormon. The old world is quite a different story. There have been specific locations identified in the Middle East that are mentioned in the Book of Mormon that Joseph couldn’t have known about when the book was published. I could go into much more detail on any of these issues you have brought up. If you’re interested, we can take a deep dive into one at a time to discover the whole truth.

[@sarak6860]

@@thebenplatt I looked into these sciences for myself. There are also serious issues with the Book of Abraham that I looked deeply into. Many historical things grate me, especially Polyandry. I can't tell anyone else how or what to believe, but for myself, I can't believe in Mormonism anymore.

[@aubriellebanner805]

The first time I heard the swoosh I was thinking, “oh how pleasant, much better then a ding.” But then it kept happening over and over and made me want to go crazy and I couldn’t even concentrate on what you guys were saying. Maybe it’s different if your watching, but just listening it’s maddening. Maybe keep it to 2 swipe sounds?🙏🙏

[@SaintsUnscripted]

Thank you for the feedback!

[@DrawMorQuest]

Were can I get an update copy for free that you kinda spoke about? You said a website but not clearly.

[@michaelbennett7561]

I've often wondered whether "Son of Righteousness" in the Book of Mormon is an error caused by Joseph reading "Sun of Righteousness" and Oliver writing "Son" instead. In Hebrew, the words "Son" and "Sun" are not closely related, but obviously they sound the same in English. Regardless, having the word "Son" instead of "Sun" works quite well and could also fit with the original intent to describe the Savior. Maybe it was an intentional mistranslation that God allowed to happen?

[@dane_with_swag]

Wait wait wait... There weren't any punctuations in the early text? I instantly thought about old Hebrew texts when he said that. That's a very interesting detail

[@mikeonthecomputer]

Indeed there aren't. Joseph Smith dictated it and the scribes wrote it down in a stream-of-consciousness manner. Many phrases (including "And it came to pass") offer strong clues for when sentences are finished and beginning anew. Lists where every item is prefixed with "and ..." or "or ..." also signify a more ancient style of writing. Punctuation was largely added by the original 1830 typesetter, with minor alterations made in the interim.

[@ningenJMK]

Read the comments section of any KZbin video and you’d find streams of consciousness with no punctuations.

[@bplionel2]

@@ningenJMK Good example, right there.

[@elderinisrael]

There were many times if Joseph Smith didn't know how to pronounce a word, he would spell out the word.

[@Mustardmanor]

​@@elderinisraelsource for that?

[@Jeff_H_the_Guitarist]

So Joseph may have missed a "in them days", I'm wondering if he also missed something in his retranslating bible passages. What's your thoughts on why he retranslated Psalm 14:1 but not Psalm 53:1?

[@tansershinasi2932]

Yeah, good question. it's understood that the JST was never complete, hence we don't use the JST and we use KJT. That's why JST is mainly found in the footnotes rather than added to the main text. JST is used more like commentary at times. We don't even use a lot of JST you'd have to go online to get the full JST translation know as the "inspired version", which I think was published by the community of Christ (RLDS). hope that makes sense.

[@Jeff_H_the_Guitarist]

@@tansershinasi2932 I just find it interesting that the Joseph Smith translation changed what was, you’re a fool for saying there’s no God to you’re a fool for saying no man has seen God. that re-translation directly benefits Joseph Smith and his claims.

[@Jeff_H_the_Guitarist]

@@tansershinasi2932 What is JKT? Google is failing me.

[@Jeff_H_the_Guitarist]

I’m curious about this one Isaiah verse thats sits different surrounded by an ocean of perfectly identical Isaiah verses. Compare Isaiah 8:4 to 2 Nephi 18:4. The 2 Nephi verse doesnt flow and feels grammatically incorrect.

[@tansershinasi2932]

@@Jeff_H_the_Guitarist haha! Sorry I meant KJT (King James translation). Typo

[@bradjennings8714]

I've written inspired words and corrected my grammar through several rewrights. Humans are human. Christ is the only perfect person who ever lived. He was a God!

[@dnzswithwombats]

"a God". Isaiah 43:10 ?

[@avoice423]

Yes because Jehova of the old testament is Jesus of the new testament. True statement made in Isaiah besides the Lord there is no savior, who is Jesus Christ, the Son of the living God.

[@imaginecomplexity7815]

Fascinating. Was pointed this way by a missionary. I am not convinced the extraordinary claims have met their burden of proof, but, fun to critique literature.

[@MrRickb75645]

Im a boring person. But i how i lobe to listen to the elserly talk. They have some of the greatest stories.

[@Mcmj-ot4dt]

I'd love to read a book of mormon written in modern english prose. Short, concise sentences. It would be an entirely different reading experience. It would be hard to find someone qualified to do that though. Maybe Royal could do it.

[@danielaramburo7648]

Always read the original text and in the original language. Making a complicated text “modern” will change minute phrases here and there, but those minute changes or re-interpretation might change the nuances of passages.

[@katmmcdonald]

Check out the Book of Mormon for Young Readers, it does this, plus has maps and lovely artwork.

[@Mcmj-ot4dt]

@@danielaramburo7648 Obviously the original would be better. Why you feel the need to lecture randos online, man? Seems like a poor use of your time. Especially for someone as brilliant as you.

[@seans5289]

@@danielaramburo7648: Isn’t reformed Egyptian the original language?

[@bradensorensen966]

First we’d have to have an LDS apostles with the balls to “translate” it. Because all meaningful revelation stopped after Joe. But, it likely will never happen because then you can’t cloud the language to warp contradictions and double speak out of it.

[@sladreamer]

Disappointing that they continue to describe the BoM as a translation. When the BoM was written through the seer stone with the plates either not being in the room or anywhere near J.S. .... And that they don't deal with the words that are anachronistic to the setting (horses, elephants, wheat, chariots, etc). It would've been much more interesting to include a discussion about these concepts as well.

[@sidunrau7880]

Look up Royal's presentations at BYU. He addresses all these issues. Also look in the 1832 webster's dictionary (free online) to better understand what "translation" means (transmitted - as in "...we believe the Bible to be correct as far as it is translated (transmitted) correctly..."

[@sladreamer]

@@sidunrau7880 What translation meant in 1832 is irrelevant. It may have not been irrelevant at that time, so here are the definitions I found in a quick google search that turned up the 1828 version of Websters: . The act of removing or conveying from one place to another; removal; as the translation of a disease from the foot to the breast. 2. The removal of a bishop from one see to another. 3. The removal of a person to heaven without subjecting him to death. 4. The act of turning into another language; interpretation; as the translation of Virgil or Homer. 5. That which is produced by turning into another language; a version. We have a good translation of the Scriptures. So if you use a VERY loose interpretation you could argue that the J.S. use of the word translation falls under definition 5. As J.S. claimed that the plates were in reformed Egyptian (which term has its own whole set of issues) to English. The reason I said that these definitions are irrelevant is because in todays vernacular when you say you translate something the idea is that you take from 1 source study that source have a key that they pictures/ symbols mean this in this language and then write that down. That isn't what happened. Even citing the 13 articles of faith the use of translation there refers to the fact that those who had a document of a Biblical nature in a certain language would constantly refer to that document or artifact to then change the language from what it said to the new language. It didn't mean that they looked at the document said oh I think this is Greek, put that document down go into a different room, put a rock at the bottom of a dark bag, stick their head into that bag and then recite to another person what the rock told them that document said. The mistakes in translations weren't because they were making up what they thought the document said it came because they misunderstood what the document/ artifact said and didn't use the right phrase-ology, so that when other looking at that same document could then look and say, "Wait this translation isn't correct." That wasn't what happened to J.S. n the documents that are still available (i.e. the Book of Abraham) it is verifiably proven that Joseph didn't translate those documents correctly. Saying that Joseph Smith received a transmission of the meaning of the plates is entirely different from saying he translated the plates. Now you have to answer how did this transmission occur. what sent the signal? What received the signal How does a rock receive a signal and if he really didn't need the rock (as he later stopped using the seer stone) what was really receiving the transmission? Do you tell people the Book of Mormon is a Transmission of the word of God? Switching words around is a big deal and shouldn't just be dismissed as well it meant one thing 200 years ago but although its changed meaning we still use the same word... That isn't how logical arguments work.

[@jesuschristlives2724]

I'm grateful for my testimony of Jesus Christ, the Book of Mormon, and Joseph Smith

[@alfredsaints9516]

It seems that those kind of grammar is very common in conversational English in those days and even today. "They was, we was" are still showing up in any conversation or lyrics. Marvin Berry said in Back to the future movie.. " so don't nobody go nowhere". or singer Manfred Mann's Doo Wah Diddy song that said..: "Ohh oh I knew we was falling in love". I think it's more of a cultural than a grammatical correctness. That's why every author need an editor. Joseph Smith is not a learned person and yet he acknowledge that a book need to be edited.

[@jamminjamin55]

Sorry, but God would not use societal, uneducated and ignorant slang when dictating the BOM to Joseph Smith, "the most correct book on the planet"! God would not say, I rode my motorcickle and jumped the crick after doing the warshin of the clothes. God is very straight forward, clear and direct.

[@matthewfarmer9500]

The Old Testament Come Follow Me is out on Gospel Library. Isaiah is in the September and the October sections. Isaiah is like a pistachio with the shell almost completely surrounding it.

[@jakeseward9035]

I've found Isiah 43:10 and 44:6 to be pretty easy to understand actually. They say very plainly that there is only one God and there has never been any other Gods before and neither will there be any Gods after the one and only God. Alma chapter 11 is actually also very clear a uses plain speech to teach that there is only one God. I can't find anywhere in the Bible or BoM that teaches there is more than one God or that mankind can become Gods. Do you know of any references from the Bible or BoM that teach this doctrine of the church?

[@matthewfarmer9500]

@@jakeseward9035 Man, Potential to Become like Heavenly Father See also Father; Immortality; Perfection let them have dominion, Gen. 1:26 (Moses 2:26). man is become as one of us, Gen. 3:22 (Moses 4:28). be holy: for I … am holy, Lev. 19:2 (1 Pet. 1:16). thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, Ps. 8:5. madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands, Ps. 8:6. Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High, Ps. 82:6. Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father, Matt. 5:48 (3 Ne. 12:48). spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have, Luke 24:39. Is it not written in your law … Ye are gods, John 10:34 (Ps. 82; D&C 76:58). we are the offspring of God, Acts 17:29. heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ, Rom. 8:17. changed into the same image from glory to glory, 2 Cor. 3:18. if a son, then an heir of God through Christ, Gal. 4:7. Till we all come … unto a perfect man, Eph. 4:13. be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live, Heb. 12:9. when he shall appear, we shall be like him, 1 Jn. 3:2. him that overcometh will … sit with me in my throne, Rev. 3:21. men are, that they might have joy, 2 Ne. 2:25. to them have I given to become the sons of God, 3 Ne. 9:17. what manner of men ought ye to be … even as I am, 3 Ne. 27:27. your joy shall be full … shall be even as I am, 3 Ne. 28:10. you shall have eternal life, D&C 14:7. Ye who are quickened by … celestial glory, D&C 88:29. saints shall … be made equal with him, D&C 88:107. you shall receive of his fulness, and be glorified, D&C 93:20. Man was also in the beginning with God, D&C 93:29. every man shall enter into his eternal presence, D&C 121:32. spirits of just men made perfect, D&C 129:3. he is a man like ourselves, D&C 130:1. Father has a body of flesh and bones, D&C 130:22. in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order, D&C 131:2 (131:1-4). shall they be gods, because they have all power, D&C 132:20 (132:1-24). that men might be made partakers of the glories, D&C 133:57. to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man, Moses 1:39. I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy, JS-H 1:17. See also 2 Tim. 2:10-12; 1 Ne. 11:11; D&C 50:24.

[@matthewfarmer9500]

@@jakeseward9035 Godhead See also God; God the Father, Elohim; God the Father, Jehovah; Holy Ghost; Jesus Christ God said, Let us make man in our image, Gen. 1:26. man is become as one of us, to know good and evil, Gen. 3:22. This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased, Matt. 3:17 (17:5; 3 Ne. 11:7). not mine to give, but … of my Father, Matt. 20:23. not as I will, but as thou wilt, Matt. 26:39. baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, Matt. 28:19 (3 Ne. 11:25). called the Son of the Highest, Luke 1:32. Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove, Luke 3:22. Son can do nothing … but what he seeth the Father do, John 5:19. Father that sent me beareth witness of me, John 8:18. I and my Father are one, John 10:30. believe the works … that the Father is in me, John 10:38. a voice from heaven, saying, I have … glorified it, John 12:28. my Father is greater than I, John 14:28. that they might know thee the only true God, John 17:3. That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, John 17:21 (D&C 35:2). I ascend unto my Father, and your Father, John 20:17. being by the right hand of God exalted, Acts 2:33. saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, Acts 7:55. not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, Acts 17:29. even his eternal power and Godhead, Rom. 1:20. to us there is but one God, 1 Cor. 8:6. Christ, who is the image of God, 2 Cor. 4:4. I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord, Eph. 3:14. image of the invisible God, the firstborn, Col. 1:15. dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily, Col. 2:9. Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, Heb. 1:2. three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, 1 Jn. 5:7. doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, 2 Ne. 31:21. they are one God, Mosiah 15:4 (3 Ne. 11:36; D&C 20:28). arraigned before the bar of Christ … and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, Alma 11:44. sing … unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, Morm. 7:7. grace of God the Father … Lord Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost, Ether 12:41. we saw him, even on the right hand of God, D&C 76:23. Father has a body of flesh and bones, D&C 130:22. whereon was seated the Father and the Son, D&C 137:3. Let us go down. And they went down, Abr. 4:1 (4:27; 5:4, 7). I saw two Personages, JS-H 1:17. We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, A of F 1:1. See also Gen. 11:5-17; Ps. 110:1; Dan. 4:8; 5:14; Matt. 12:31-32; John 17:11; Eph. 1:2-3; Philip. 2:5-6.

[@jakeseward9035]

@@thebenplatt I know that the King Follett discourse is where Joseph first presented the idea that there is more than one God and that men can become Gods. I don't know where you stand on the church's teachings but for me, if a church's teachings are in direct contradiction to the Bible then it is not a true church.

[@ChildePC]

The book of mormon people appear more nomadic. Than suggested by text. They start in chili and end up near cummorah, newyork. The best way to see this. Is to understand this to see the cities more as trading empires and identifying what they are making and whom they could trade with.

[@user-tl6qt3er2s]

William Cooper who hosted " the of the Time" radio program and the episode"the problem with Mormonism" was great episode witch is on Utube... he's also is the author of "beyond a a pale Horse " extremely intelligent and does his own research very thoroughly. 👍

[@mssmith3604]

It adds a bit of levity when Royal catches a flea on his right side.

[@TomorrowsChild86]

Im a 6th generation LDS and I’ve NEVER heard of this before!!🤦🏻‍♀️ It’s fascinating to me!! I love this!! I am so interested in all of these texts .. I am so grateful to the Prophet Joseph Smith .. I love the Book of Mormon and have a very strong testimony of the truthfulness of its pages!! Thank you for this episode!! ❤

[@JDRusse11]

I guess you don’t research things on the internet much and like to keep your head in the sand 😂

[@Trancymind]

Don't you think this is something the LDS should have done to try to teach all mormon members? Mormon religion is history and shouldn't be hidden from you guys especially when you are putting your faith on God and Jesus. No religion is perfect because humans are meant to make mistakes and it includes writing a sacred book.

[@bobbycecere1037]

I've been to your church before, I witnessed congregants giving their testimony. You kind of have to take things on faith in that church. I think that's why testimonies exist. Any scratching beneath the surface and you're not going to like what you find.

[@Trancymind]

@@bobbycecere1037 This is why I have no religion since 1995.

[@bobbycecere1037]

@Trancymind You shouldn't judge all of religion based upon your experience in one Church. That would be faulty reasoning. There are massive differences between the denominations.

[@mrs.therapist6122]

I am confused. Did he say the language used in the Book of Mormon is from the 1500s? Isnt it suppose to be a ancient language so the style would reflect a later date. Can someone explain?

[@mintbrownieangelfish-6114]

I don't get this either. Anyone else get what he meant here?

[@Chief592]

He’s specifically referring to the words revealed to Joseph Smith in the seer stone. According to the evidence, he read out the words that appeared to him and dictated in phrases as he saw. The specific vocabulary that Joseph Smith dictated was slightly archaic as he meant. Not that the original untranslated text was 1500’s vocabulary English, rather that what was dictated was not a modern (for his time.) declaration of words

[@mrs.therapist6122]

@@Chief592 That still doesnt make sense why is joseph dicating with 1500s style english. Why is he not using 1800s style english. Make sense if he copied large transcripts of apygrapha that came from the 1500s and was fraudulent. This is confusing and kind of damaging to Joseph. If he is borrowing from apygrapha his plagarism would dictate from the 1500s depending on how old the religious texts used were Someone help... this is getting upsetting. The guy needs to explain why Joseph is talking like someone from the 1500s.

[@jordanwutkee2548]

@@mrs.therapist6122 The idea that JS might have somehow used 300-year old apocrypha only makes sense if you can show any evidence at all for it. Where could JS have gotten ahold of such a thing, and how could he possibly plagiarize them without anyone ever recognizing it as such and saying something about it at some point during the past two centuries? No, the most reasonable explanation I’m aware of for the Book of Mormon being given with that sort of vocabulary is that it was sufficiently similar to the existing book of scripture that most of the people who would receive the Book of Mormon were already familiar and comfortable with: the King James Bible. God made it easier for them to understand the Book of Mormon as a comparable and complementary work to the Bible, rather than a modern addition or a replacement. It unifies the two.

[@Chief592]

@@mrs.therapist6122 there is no evidence of any book, transcript or any writing present at all during the time it took to write down the Book of Mormon, evidence doesn’t support that. As was said, people of this region of the United States were most familiar with the King James Bible and if you believe in the Bible then take the word in John 14:26, which declares that the spirit can bring all things to our remembrance. Which certainly includes vocabulary choice, just because something is slightly archaic doesn’t mean it was copied. If anything it stands more reasonable that it wasn’t just written

[@Sayheybrother8]

What’s the text that he held up?

[@Chief592]

An earlier edition of the Book of Mormon

[@michaelpeterson6174]

It's the printer's manuscript and/or the original manuscript with annotations.

[@DavidNellTheHarbinger]

Love this guy, Thank you Royal, for your work and for your testimony, which is more powerful than a 2 edged sword, indeed

[@Jon-fn4eo]

The intro to the BOM says it is the most correct of any book but you freely admit to all these errors. How do you reconcile that?

[@leonardogden1248]

Since this is a recent reply I’m assuming you might look here. Here’s my personal reconciliation. I serve as a Stake Patriarch. The blessings I give are as scripture to those I give them to. At each complete review, after intensive searching for textual errors I send them off. As I sign each blessing I receive a confirmation that the blessing will be fulfilled upon the righteousness of the individual. Upon a later review do I find minor errors? Yes. A forgotten letter here, a missing comma there. Sometimes a mis-spelling. There have been times during the review that what was typed is clearly wrong. I pray for insight, and the correction always comes. It is the MOST correct blessing, maybe the correct enough blessing.. it will serve its purpose.. Gods does speak today. The Book of Mormon will testify of Christ, and by inference that Joseph is a prophet for our day..

[@Liberty-LLama]

It is Terryl and Fiona Givens that make the case for "Awful state of woundedness". You guys really ought to have them on to talk about that, if you can. I think Terryl and Fiona are correct.

[@ningenJMK]

Except the word scimiter appears in the BoM when such weapons didn’t exist until the Islamic era several centuries after the Nephites were supposedly wiped out.

[@Hamann9631]

@@ningenJMK So, you know every weapon in ancient North and South America? Does that include rarer and possibly rusted to oblivion scimiter?

[@clsboo2348]

You need to look at Egyptian weapons used at the battle of Kadesh. You are clearly wrong

[@EricVMag]

@Parley Priesthood Pratt Look up "Wayne May Fireside". He has several pictures of curved metal artifacts made out of bronze and iron. How would you call a curved sword?

[@mspolicecall]

I'd like regular mormons to consider other additions of the Bible if these corrections are acceptable. I'm a fan of NIV and ESV. NIV is the easier to understand. But with scousands explanation of errors, I'm more convinced that other bible additions should be considered by LDS members.

[@jisharresendiz3336]

It's like seeing the future david on the left and the present one on the right

[@dane_with_swag]

He went through the quantum realm and create a variant

[@BrittaneyPeacock]

What happened to the golden plates?

[@thatgamer6380]

Moroni (The last one to write in the book of Mormon which was named after his father which is an abridgment of several books ) took them back with him to heaven when the translation was complete

[@paulolosi1452]

@@thatgamer6380 why would he take it back?

[@thatgamer6380]

@@paulolosi1452 Because God commanded him too and there was no use for it being on earth since it was translated

[@paulolosi1452]

@@thatgamer6380 whaaat! I feel like we would need it more than Heaven would don’t you think? I Know I know God commands it but still, Heaven should already be perfect why would they need the plates?

[@thatgamer6380]

@@paulolosi1452 there isn't a point to having a book in a language no one can read except through translation through the power of God so there would be no point

[@edwardjjanzen23]

i too, have investigated the book of mormon from an academic perspective. it is interesting, that much of the verbage is not native to american english in the early 19th century, that mr skousen finds most of the phrasing to be complementary of the 16th to the late 1700's. it should be noted that much in the way of geography and speculation as to south and central america was available in writ 200 years prior to the writings of joseph smith; books and papers that would have been available to him in the english that was common at the time those papers and books were written. there was much interest in american history in the generations preceeding the book of mormon, and a public fascination of incan, mayan, and aztec cultures, especially as to architecture. that joseph smith would phrase in a language uncommon to his piers, would indicate that he personally had read much of this material, and thus such phrasing would naturally find their way into his writings. joseph smith was not the unlettered bumpkin that some lds scholars paint of him. he was self-educated. in bringing this to the attention of viewers i am not saying that the book of mormon is uninspired. i can argue both for and against. i am saying that the verbage in the book of mormon is consistent with the language of books and papers that were written before him. it is unfortunate that the original manuscript of the book of mormon is unavailable save for a meager 28%. this saddens me, in the same way the loss of the original manuscripts of the apostles paul, peter and john. the new testament, as we have it today, is based on scant information from pieces and parts 2nd and 3rd generation separated from the original. we accept the kjv on the same level of faith, as lds members for the book of mormon. the kjv is full of errors, as proven by recent discoveries and scholarly examinations; but, like the book of mormon, these errors do not generally change the meaning or theme of the text. we have the bible as GOD would want us to, and, if HE is the author of the book of mormon, we have that book, as well, in the same light. if joseph smith used the information in academia to formulate the book of mormon, he produced a brilliant piece of historical speculation, fact, and fiction. the argument can be made, that just as the bible sometimes relies on information passed down by generations, GOD could have used the knowledge that joseph smith acquired, to formulate in his mind, the pictures and thoughts that would encompass his writings. are the words worth more than the message? if they are, then we might as well throw out every translation of the scriptures we have, including the king james. the bible presents a message; 2 billion people can disagree on the details, but, for most, the message remains unchanged.

[@bobbycecere1037]

Paragraphs, use them. Makes it easier to read your rants.

[@bobbycecere1037]

Just like you I've done an investigation. There is no field of expertise that doesn't denounce The Book of Mormon as a fraud. Linguistics is just one of them.

[@Morrisseys7thFriend]

If it were me, I would probably make a lot of grammar mistakes too. There's nothing in the doctrine that suggests that the Urim and Thumim also gave the gift of perfect grammar and spelling. If Joseph was Mexican, he would have translated it into Spanish. If he was Korean, he would have translated it into Korean. He translated it into the language he was familiar with.

[@JosephSaltal]

How is he related to Cleon Skousen?

[@paysonstudios]

Cleon's nephew.

[@dvknauss]

There are facts in Book of Mormon that an 1830s American would have NO real source to learn since not known in Joseph Smiths times.

[@LiteaciaVillafloor]

The book of mormon is true like the holybible

[@butkusaurelius3419]

It’s time we not only bring back the language of older times, but the hairstyles. Please! 13:15

[@mouthymormonmetalhea]

I appreciate this interview with Royal Skousen. My father was a firm beleiver in Kleon Skousen's, first 7000 years book or whatever. If you take a literal view of Genisis and young Earth history of the Bible. Here is my questions for Royal Skousen: If the text of the original 1830 edition of the book of mormon, let's say the wilford c. Wood edition, has these 1530ish, ad or ce phrases that can be traced, like "in them days..." and that's not part of Joseph Smith's 1800's, country bumpkin vernacular, that still doesn't prove that the "translation" given through the seer stone is an ancient text. It's still post Columbas. I'm sure many scholars in America had vernacular that said, "in them days..." and in other countries. So maybe the text can be backdated to to in the 15th or 16th century. In some spots. We'll Joseph Smith is already been accused as a plagiarist. And maybe we don't know exactly what books he was plagiarizing from, but if you read the Tanner's introduction to View of the Hebrews, we have a pretty good idea of what books were in Joseph Smith's "Zeitgeist." The episode wants to deal with, well then how do you explain these anomalies in the textual criticism that date back to the 1500's? Dan Vogel has already demonstrated on his 3 videos on Native Americans and the book of Mormon that historical figures as early as Menassah Ben Isreal were already producing publications on the lost ten tribes Isrealite theory. Likewise, Mormonism Live and Mormon Stories have dealt with episodes regarding the neophites, and Hyrum Smith supposedly attending a prep school at Dartmouth. And the evangelical works convincing native Americans that they are indeed of the lost ten tribes of Israel. Many leading preachers came out of Dartmouth including first nations preachers. I think Samson Ocum (not sure if I got the name spelled right) got into a debate with Oliver Cowdrey. My point is that given the historical research in the above 2 Podcasters on Joseph Smith's connection with Dartmouth, I think it's entirely plausible, but not provable that there is a "q" source in the book of Mormon. A source that Hyrum came home with and gave to a bed ridden Joseph that enspired him with tales about first nations being of the lost ten tribes of Israel, which was a very prominent theme of the time, and that's where Joseph Smith is getting names like "Coriantumr." It wouldn't make sense that God is going to translate how the word sounds from reformed Egyptian into that exact spelling for modern, even 19th century modern annunciation. The idea is just silly! In order to "deal with these things" I propose an alternative Spalding/rigdon theory. Hyrum Smith attended a junior school at Dartmouth College, brought home some books for young Joseph to read while he was recovering from his leg surgery, Native Americans being ancient Hebrews or Pheonecians was a common idea at the time, and there is a "Q" source text that Joseph Smith is plagiarizing from where he's spelling out the names of the characters. In them days! That's my take on it with my research and my bias. I respect both Royal and Kleon with their valuable scholarship, and I learned a lot from this interview. Which I feel is meant to provide red herrings and little tidbits on how finicky of a science textual criticism can be. Please don't delete my comment and if you disagree, please do so in an intelligent manner. Again I appreciate the interview. I think Saints unscripted had its bias, and I have my own.

[@samdodini462]

Hyrum's school he attended briefly, and the connection to Dartmouth was tenuous at best-- the association was loose. Hyrum didn't have the money to afford books that he could just "bring home" to Joseph-- you forget how expensive it was to actually own many books. Hyrum was ELEVEN years old when he attended, and Joseph was five years old. By any sane interpretation of events, you're expecting a 5-8 year old to be deeply affected by the supposed connection of his 11-14 year old brother to an emerging doctrinal view of the world that was relatively new and ill-defined in books that both are unlikely to have access to, while the 5-8 year old really wasn't a "reader" by the description of everyone in his family. Let's remember that Hyrum was the best-educated child in the Smith family, and his formal schooling ended before age 14. And this "Q-source" you speak of would then have to contain language that predates the King James common scriptural english of Joseph's day (and indeed, was not used in Joseph's day at all). The Book of Mormon specifically talks about the lost tribes not being in the Americas. The Mulekites were Jews, and Lehi's family, while being descended from Manasseh, wouldn't have considered themselves part of the lost tribes because they were firmly rooted in the southern kingdom of Judah at the time of the Assyrian conquest. Then there's the actual text of the Book of Mormon, which is extremely narrow in geographic and social scope and makes no claims about the origins of Native Americans as a whole, again, against the prevailing currents of the day.

[@mouthymormonmetalhea]

@@samdodini462 That's a pretty good rebuttle! My understanding is that Joseph was 8 when he received leg surgery from the Dartmouth doctors. I marked this in my copy of Richard Bushman's Rough Stone Rolling. I don't want to accuse Hyrum of theft of books from Dartmouth, like Willard Chase accuses the Smith Brothers stealing his seer stone from the well. The point I will make is that Joseph told his mother at 12 that he can gain more from reading the Bible himself than any of those preachers. Lucy also claims in her autobiographical sketches that it's unlikely that someone as unlearned as Joseph could have come up with a book like the book of mormon. I want to point out that the Smith family was swimming in these ideas of First Nations being ancient jews or lost ten tribes of Israel or whatever. These were common ideas at Dartmouth and specifically Moores Indian charity school! Both Ethan Smith, author of View of the Hebrews and Solomon Spaulding author of manuscript found graduated from Dartmouth. I DON'T BELIEVE IN THE SPAULDING/RIGDON THEORY! I think it's garbage. My point is, is that Joseph Smith and his family were swimming in these ideas enough in his mileu or zightghist that he came up with exactly what he did come up with! Maybe Hyrum didn't bring books home or wasn't allowed to borrow them in the sense that we understand today as a library loaning books. But if his great uncle John Smith was a professor of religion at Dartmouth while he was attending, and the other connections that Thomas Murphy and others have made, it stands to reason, that the book of mormon didn't come out of nowhere as I was taught by the missionaries, but these ideas are traceable. I'm not accusing Joseph Smith of being a plagiarist directly. With the exception of the kjv. And spelling out hard words like corintumer. The city of Moroni is on the Comoros islands. An interesting coincidence. I invoke Grant Palmers insider's view of mormon origins when he says that we don't believe Joseph, when Joseph himself says that he was well acquainted with the religions and camp revivals of his time. If the book of mormon and it's theology speak to you in the context if lds interpretation and it helps you self actualize into being the best person that you can be, then I'm happy for you. I don't wish to rob you of that. However, I think it's native American biblical fan fiction.

[@samdodini462]

@@mouthymormonmetalhea The problem is that you still have to account for the existence of the Book of Mormon in a serious way. Pointing vaguely to "ambient ideas" doesn't with given what the historical record actually says about the Smith family and Joseph in particular. You then have to address the CONTENT of the Book of Mormon, the style of the book (which is Skousen's research), and the complexity of the book itself, none of which fit into the educational context of Smith's day, his family, his knowledge (we're making vague appeals to maps still?), and the contradictions between his era and the text of the book.

[@mouthymormonmetalhea]

@@samdodini462 are you aware of the Lucy Code? I'm still looking into the veracity of this argument myself. I have a few historical complaints against it. However I feel that Joseph Smith had everything in his milieu to create the book of mormon. I also investigate the break off denominations of the lds church such as the church of Jesus Christ bickertonite and Community of Christ. I'm sure you think that their interpretation of the theology is apostasy according to your beliefs.

[@mouthymormonmetalhea]

@@samdodini462 I just want to add that Joseph Smith came from a family of free masons, with connections to Dartmouth, native American preachers like Samuel the Lamanite. The free masons are well known for inventiing biblical text. I've read a bunch of them. I think the book of mormon is just the most ambitious.

[@TheBABoomer]

Also. Why wasn’t the original manuscript better preserved?

[@dannyrocket77]

Probably didn't have the means to preserve it. It takes a lot to preserve paper from the era.

[@stygianapproach]

It stayed with Emma in the mansion house, and her second husband was known to give parts of it to tourists as souvenirs. That's what I've heard at least.

[@margaretforrest1410]

I was a teenager when I knew skousens nephew as a missionary

[@ItsMeMikeD1988]

Keep believing despite all the evidence.

[@CrackedCandy]

How is he related to Cleon?

[@madogg152]

I Believe, we don't receive revelation we want, we receive what we need. Joseph didn't receive the answer which church to join, what he received changed the world.

[@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr]

wow all that scholarly work, but his faith comes down to the same as all Mormons - I read a story and just felt like God said it was true.

[@bradhardisty1652]

Interest twist that doesn't fit any of the sceptics narratives. The fact that it is in English not used in his time can't be refuted. I have felt like Hebrew text that has been translated in the last 50 years or so shows the same simplicity and bluntness as the BofM. Hebrew text seems to show a more narrow usage of words like bofm.

[@bradensorensen966]

But why centuries old-for 1830-King James Bible English? And then there was adieu.

[@bradhardisty1652]

@@bradensorensen966 awesome

[@maxpeterson3178]

If it turns out that The Book of Mormon is inspired fiction, thats fine but that theory feels unlikely considering the angel Moroni appeared to Joseph Smith

[@joeriv4151]

Did the original have chiasmus and other Hebrewisms?

[@Brdr685]

The book is true. It really is. These simple text mistakes dont account for the layers upon layers of intricate chiasmus literature contained in the book. In fact the whole book is chiasmus script. I young kid could not have made this up

[@lonprete2189]

The Book of Mormon is simply a history of the people who lived on this American continent between the years 600 BC to about 400 AD. They're relationship between themselves and Jesus Christ. Why is that so appalling to so many. And why is there such a need to disprove and discredit this book. If everyone lived by the principal's and content of this book, the world would be a wonderful place to live.

[@GMMXX80]

If you were the devil......

[@savannahvick5266]

There’s always someone who feels like they need to prove or disprove something. That’s why you have people who also want to discredit the Bible. Religion strikes a hard spot for many people and they feel the need to tear it down.

[@mageos98]

A religious history of some of the people that lived on the American continent...

[@amynazza]

Some believe the Hopewell people are the same as the Nephites.

[@dnzswithwombats]

My difficulty is not about the subject matter being a proported history of civilizations in the Americas. As a Bible-believing born-again (by God's grace alone) Christian, my trouble with the book and with this faith is that it teaches a different gospel and another Jesus.

[@MrRickb75645]

Is he related to Cleon Skousen?

[@Apostolinen]

Olipa mielenkiintoista. Kiitos, Royal.

[@ranjanty]

Is Royal a member of the church?

[@faenrandirturion8623]

Yes, and he was a (now retired) professor at BYU.

[@Hala-ataa]

Noyce!

[@user-dc1mv5rd4n]

Wow! Great interview. Nobody knows better about BofM! This is way exciting! One fun thing to watch is the host's pure enjoyment of the discussion.

[@Bitter_Beauty_Music]

Unrelated, but I always read BofM as Book of Freaking Mormon

[@mmaspidermonkey]

Is there prophecy of Joseph smith... That wasnt written by Joseph Smith?

[@Ace-nu9wr]

There is doctrinal changes...research it.

[@purpleparrot4333]

Errors and or Mistakes are 100% automatic since two people, that are human, were involved. Anyone believes other, is unrealistic.

[@tydde4]

Did Joseph as a child read a sixteen century bible in his studies.

[@dannyrocket77]

If he did, it would be hard with his 3rd grade reading skills

[@tydde4]

@@dannyrocket77 He read the bible. I am wondring, since the original manuscript for mormons book contains word from 1500 and 1600 centuries. It would bee naturaly to assume that his bible orginated from a 1600 translation from greek. Do the church have his families bible?

[@ethancate8462]

​@@tydde4 the church claims he used the KJV bible. I'm assuming he has reading comprehension but struggled writing (as evident by his letters to his wife).

[@tydde4]

@@ethancate8462 The 1611 KJV is the originally published KJV text from 1611 A.D. using archaic English. Next version/ revision is in 1769. But with several edition in between.

[@ethancate8462]

@@tydde4 the 1611 edition was published in 1611?? No way. Jk, idk the actual exact version but I know James 1:5 is the same as he read it as it is now. Plus, language does change but it was still probably very familiar to everyone at the time.

[@titabutoauru-qm7ev]

You are correct that the b.o.m is the very correct on earth change most of the peoples live

[@danielaramburo7648]

Stupid question: why can’t the modern prophet ask for revelation using modern electronic equipment to record the revelation of the exact correct text?

[@pattykake7195]

Just use a rock in a hat….it’s more effective…🎩

[@sidunrau7880]

Why would he need to? Can you imagine the further criticisms that would result? There are some instances of this happening (in a sense): in some languages there is no simple word for "brother" - has to be "older brother" or "younger brother" so when the BoM was translated into those languages (Thai, for example) there was prophetic guidance concerning "the brother of Jared" (turns out he's older).

[@pattykake7195]

@@sidunrau7880 Unfortunately the BOM is a book of 19 th. Century fiction ….. with a bit of biblical plagiarism added in for good measure….🤠

[@TEAM__POSEID0N]

Well, it seems like God and heaven would have had the resources to simply provide a perfect book in the first place...and in multiple languages. But that would be no help to a religious fraudster hoping to make some money by selling a book that he claimed to have translated from golden plates that had been buried for more than a thousand years in a hill near his home, which plates were then conveniently hauled up to a mini-storage unit in heaven by an angel, so as to avoid any direct scrutiny or examination. The "Gospel" is plain, precious and easy to understand...when you really understand what Joe was up to.

[@1pt21jigawatt]

If the BoM was false, LDS scholars would have made the claim long ago. They have yet to.

[@LiaSunshine67]

The problem is LDS discredit the Bible translation even though there ARE lots of scrolls and manuscripts and proof it was taken directly from them and is legit yet the BOM has issues and LDS do not want to use the same amount of discrediting to it. The same degree of skepticism needs to be used for both. You can’t have it both ways.

[@carlifegarage2340]

But what about all the mistakes that aren’t just grammar or spelling?

[@archangel_one]

Hmm, so up is down and left is right...okay...makes no sense, so it must be mainstream LDS?

[@heritageresearchcenter8970]

Wrong. SPAULDING wrote the adventures of Moroni which was changed to the Book of Mormon.

[@caz2870]

Royal - Isn't allowed to *Search, Ponder and Pray* about scriptures?

[@seans5289]

Why is it important to separate academic research and spiritual witnesses?

[@jordanwutkee2548]

Because prejudiced skeptics often dismiss spiritual witnesses out of hand. Spiritual witnesses are also deeply personal and pretty much unquantifiable. Academic research, on the other hand, can be based entirely on observable facts, rather than unfalsifiable personal claims.

[@seans5289]

@@jordanwutkee2548: Is it also possible to be prejudiced in favor of spiritual witnesses?

[@bluesfrequency]

Because emotional responses that people claim to be "spiritual witnesses" are not valid evidences of truth. That's why. So many people have had "spiritual witnesses" of completely false things. Look at ANY cult or religion and you will find those that are completely convinced of the truthfulness of their beliefs. Heaven's Gate, followers of David Koresh, FLDS, JW's, Islam, they ALL fervently believe they have the truth. Are they all wrong? Are they all right?

[@seans5289]

@@bluesfrequency: I can’t see any way that they are all correct, but I can definitely see a way they can all be in error.

[@bradensorensen966]

@@jordanwutkee2548 Spirituality is impossible to prove and has oft times been disproved. And witnesses are highly unreliable. Academic research is glad to be disproven so the truth can be found. Spiritual witnesses dig their heels in and deny proper refutation.

[@katbos4995]

19:35

[@rockyvlll5072]

Leading expert ....leading among who !?,,

[@dnzswithwombats]

The grammar police will be coming for you shortly.

[@CurvyRoadsAreBetter]

At 20:55 Royal is dismissing Dr Terryl Givens and I think it's quite petty that he's so arrogant about it, but that isn't a surprising thing for an academic to be like that. It is Royal's OPINION that Joseph misread a few times but doesn't explain why in any follow up here. I personally side with Terryl Givens.

[@Mustardmanor]

I less about the grammar and spelling and much more about anachronisms.

[@rsstnnr76]

Good interview. But he's about an exciting as a 2x4.

[@buckweaver4584]

Why would someone translate a foreign language in to a dialect they or anyone else of the time didn’t use? The language the JS uses obviously was used to try and mimic the 1600’s biblical translations. Hard to make it past that glaring fact.

[@bobbycecere1037]

Believe me, Mormons have no problem getting past that glaring fact. Their faith in fact requires a personal testimony to its authenticity. It doesn't really matter whats proven or not proven that's how they get around the obvious mistakes

[@8dreamersfarm]

I think it’s interesting he doesn’t like looking at “verily Verily” - it’s in the Book of Mormon 25 times and the Bible 25 times (in John, quoting Jesus). It’s all the Savior’s words EXCEPT one in Alma. So it makes me wonder if Jesus is behind that quote, “17 Yea, verily, verily I say unto you, if all men had been, and were, and ever would be, like unto Moroni, behold, the very powers of hell would have been shaken forever; yea, the devil would never have power over the hearts of the children of men.”

[@marquitaarmstrong399]

Nxuz. It was lifted from. the Bible

[@Gabrieljoseph129]

In my opinion Royal will never receive a spiritual confirmation because he is not a Prophet Seer or Revelator, Only the Prophet or 12 Apostles have that gift. If that were to happen Royal would be at odds with them. He has not been called to those positions. But it does not mean that his research is not true and correct. It also does not mean the Book of Mormon, as it has been published today, is not a true account even with the grammatical errors.

[@nathanclarke8408]

So here’s a question: why couldn’t God just have made it a very cloudy day so Joseph didn’t have to bury his head in a hat supposedly to block the sun? I mean, God can make words appear on a magic rock but he can’t strategically place a cloud over Joseph’s house so he wouldn’t have to bury his head in a hat?

[@geoffnoyes520]

Fact, Joseph Smith described, in his BOM a vast uniquely Jewish civilization that stretched from coast to coast, it's inhabitants numerous almost as the sands of the sea, and it's buildings covering the land, somewhere in America/Americas, nobody, least of all the Mormon church, knows where. Civilizations don't simply disappear without archeological trace, that is impossible. Only Mormons believe Joseph Smith's civilization existed, only they have ever believed it, only they look for it to this day. Joseph Smith claimed not only that his BOM was true history, but also that God had revealed it to him, he called it 'the most correct book on earth', Mormons call it the keystone of their faith, and deem it to be as much holy scripture as the Bible itself. Joseph Smith and his BOM are the heart and foundation of Mormonism, so he, and especially his BOM must be defended vigorously, and promoted door to door across the world every day by thousands of missionaries. This is authentic Mormonism, but not remotely biblical Christianity.

[@Nick-zb4bp]

Your first fact is not a fact. About 30 people left Jerusalem and arrived at a heavily populated area in the americas. Then you go on and on off something that is not a fact.

[@hollayevladimiroff131]

The Book of Mormon has never been proven by a historian or an archeologist. It has never been validated by scholars, not one artifact has been found, not a coin, sword, bone, etc.

[@Nick-zb4bp]

This couldn’t be more incorrect. Historians and archaeologists have verified all sorts of stuff in the Book of Mormon.

[@christopherv850]

This ep. was like watching paint dry.

[@SaintsUnscripted]

Different strokes for different folks!

[@laloifilealofi9628]

No unhollowed hand can stop the Lord's work, no one can disproof the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon, is another testament of Jesus Christ, hand in hand with the Bible to the Restoration of the Lord's Church, The Church of Jesus Christ of latter day Saints, I do know for myself by the power of the Holy Ghost, We can all be humble and ask God, if the Book is true, By the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things,Moroni 10:3-5,James 1:5-6,Proverbs 3:5-6,John 14:26,love and prayers

[@Wilvekio69]

You continue in your delusion, the BOM contradicts the Holy Bible, therefore cannot be a companion text. Josephs Myth is exactly that... a fallacy.... He was also a diviner, which the Holy Bible states is from the devil.... You will never convince me the BOM is true by trying to quote from a book that has no archeological proof, unlike various texts and places named in the Holy Bible.

[@Spawn303]

Isn’t it crazy, we go from Gordon B Hinkley saying how it’s the truest book in human history with no mistakes and if there are then it’s all a fraud... to just 20 years later saying mistakes are made by scribes or hearing JS wrong or whatever... kinda crazy

[@davidgillis950]

Um. Calling it The most correct book does not mean perfect. Even the writers of the Book of Mormon say there are mistakes, but they are of men. Also, most correct is not grammar/spelling, but in true doctrine.

[@bluesfrequency]

Yeah, like no mistakes such as the use of steel which did not exist in Meso-America, elephants which did not exist at that time, or horses, or chariots. Or wheat, pigs, or many other anachronisms in the BoM. Even just ONE anachronism makes the book questionable, but this many? It just makes it FALSE!!

[@michaelpeterson6174]

@@bluesfrequency You foolishly said: "Even just ONE anachronism makes the book questionable, but this many? It just makes it FALSE!!" Then this makes everything YOU'VE said, my friend @Mixman1976, FALSE, because YOU'VE been spewing lies here, and more than one of them, just demonstrating ignorance. I've studied the detail and the history, and ALL of the items in your phony attack list have been demonstrated to have been on this continent during the period of the Book of Mormon. You don't know squat. But you do know lying and bitterness and cheap attacks on a Christian faith you hate.

[@michaelpeterson6174]

No. And your comment just demonstrates ignorance. Anyone with common sense knows the distinction between these types of transcription mistakes common to all such work (and which the Lord took into account when he used mere mortals to bring it forth) and doctrinal or substance errors. If you don't get that, then that's on you - shows you've haven't really listened to or delved into Brother Skousen's work. So please spare us your cheap attempt to attack the Book of Mormon, which is true and which will stand for all time.

[@Spawn303]

@@michaelpeterson6174 where are the iron swords, hundreds of thousands of bodies from the wars the nephites had, the horses? Which BYU scholars have said are actually tapirs. Army of helamen riding on tapirs into battle...have you read view of the hebrews? Which came out a couple years before the BOM and Oliver Cs pastor was the author. I don’t know about you but I was taught that Joseph translated it with the tools found with the plates, not dictate with a treasure finding stone in a hat. JS like Captain Kidd the pirate. He heard magical stories about his adventures. Do yourself a favor, open a google map and travel over to Madagascar to the NW of Madagascar you will find and island which has a mighty familiar capital name and city name. Moroni and Comoros. But there is literally tons more to say but I’ll keep it light for you.

[@adamholloway7963]

7 Foundational Principles of Book of Mormon believers- 1) A Spiritual Witness [aka feelings] is more important and more reliable than material evidence to prove something true and should be prioritized over material evidence. 2) If someone does decide to look for material evidence, despite it being inferior to a Spiritual Witness, he/she must give greater weight to any evidence that supports Book of Mormon historicity and dismiss/ignore evidence that does not support Book of Mormon historicity. 3) One must ignore or dismiss the numerous claims that previous LDS Prophets, Seers, and Revelators made about Book of Mormon origins, archeological evidence, geography, etc if science has now disproved those claims because they must have all been “speaking as a man” when they made those claims. 4) One must ignore the fact that Joseph Smith used the Seer-stone-in-a-hat method for years to deceive people prior to using the same deceitful method to “translate” the Book of Mormon, because God really did make words appear on the stone in the hat for Joseph to read out loud to his scribe despite Joseph being unable to locate any treasure using the exact same method. In other words, the fraudulent method didn’t work previously but God made it work for the translation of the Book of Mormon because God is omnipotent. 5) One must ignore the fact that Joseph Smith has a long history of dishonesty such as deceiving others about buried treasure and lying to his wife and the members of the Church about having multiple wives, including teen brides as young as 14 years old, because a Spiritual Witness can verify that he was telling the truth about the Book of Mormon. 6) One must ignore the fact that many LDS Prophets, Seers, and Revelators, including Joseph Smith, have made many false claims and even taught things the church now claims are “false doctrines” because those same LDS Prophets, Seers, and Revelators have also promised and testified that they will “always teach the truth”, that, “[t]he Lord will never permit me [President Wilford Woodruff] or any other man who stands as President of this Church to lead you astray”, that “[t]he Lord will never let the General Authorities of this Church lead it astray”, that “[t]he Lord will never let his mouthpiece lead the people astray”, that “[t]he prophet will never lead the Church astray”, that Prophets “won’t lead you astray”, that Prophets won’t “lead anyone astray”, that, “[t]hat’s not what prophets do”, that, “[i]f the President of the church should ever lead people astray, God would take him away”, and that, “God won’t lead you astray, and the prophet will not lead you astray, because God loves you”, and I can trust a Spiritual Witness that those promises and testimonies are true. 7) I can fully trust what LDS Prophets, Seers, and Revelators tell me is true, regardless of their past record of teaching “false doctrine” and making claims that have now been conclusively disproved, because even if I receive a Spiritual Witness that something they are claiming is true is actually false, I can know of a surety that the Spiritual Witness I received was Satan trying to lead me astray because LDS Prophets, Seers, and Revelators have said so.

[@GMMXX80]

Yeah, ya geek out with this guy. Older guy with knowledge, wisdom, and life's experiences. You can see him calm and relaxed, taking it all in and just listening with curiosity. Yeah, he's right. It's also a respect for your elders thing too but, ya know Bytheway, is this Cleon Skoussains kid? C. Skoussain was a genius. You read his books, yeah, for first 2,000 Years... Or was it the first 4000 years. He goes over Genesis step by step and breaks it down, it's pretty friggin amazing. Now he's talking with a (likely) relative? Wow