China Cycling on Chinese Aero R&D, Price Increases and Lack of Product Testing

[@ChinaCycling]

Always great fun being on this show. I can waffle for hours, but the lads keep me on track, Chris is good with the edit, yadda yadda yadda.... 🙌

[@pureroadie]

Launch the full vid, want to hear all Joe has to say

[@chrisvanbuggenum871]

Are their any rim brake wheels available?

[@pipoann]

@@chrisvanbuggenum871 get the 9velo 50s. I bought them on panda podium and they are fairly light but importantly rock solid. Best rim Brake wheels I have had.

[@No.6Works]

that's proper condensed china insight Joe!! Great stuff!

[@abhimawa1]

This is an interesting episode. This is the first time I re-watched Chris’s podcast after I unsubscribe the channel due to he (& Jesse) spoke as aero experts ala Rory Byrne or Adrian Newey. Interesting to hear Joe mentioned about F1 cars’ winglets, as he obviously knows a thing or two about downforce, outwash, inwash, flexy wings, blown diffusers, etc.

[@NorCalCycling]

one of my favorites so far, keep up the good work boys

[@brycegracey699]

The mention of No. 6 again makes it a good time to weight in on this. We, No. 22 Frameworks, launched our No. 6 Composites brand in 2019 to start offering our forks and related carbon components to other framebuilders, and it has grown to be a staple of our offerings on our bikes and those of other small builders. The “No. 6” wheels knock-off brand was launched in China in 2024 by a former No. 22 dealer who blatantly copied our existing No. 6 branding. We ended our relationship with that dealer in January 2024 and they almost immediately knocked off our branding for use on their wheels. They are definitely in the silo of bringing nothing to the table than a price hike on off the shelf Farsports wheels and intellectual property theft. Buy direct from Farsports.

[@ChinaCycling]

I didn't know the history of this (with them being a former No.22 dealer, etc.) I assumed the clash of names was a coincidence from lack of research, but apparently not. The irony of this 'copying' being they're actually a Sino-Singaporean brand, not just Chinese. Either way... doesn't look good...

[@martye8347]

A sad reality with a lot of Chinese brands - IP theft is rampant and almost impossible to police/prosecute.

[@brycegracey699]

​@@ChinaCycling We're big fans of your videos and willingness to share your expertise, Joe - thanks for your response. Indeed, not cool at all...

[@jameseastwood402]

Made my Sunday. My Seka Spear with EXS handlebar and Farsports wheels is frothing at the thought of this episode

[@卡臣-c2f]

Smart choice of combination.

[@petersouthernboy6327]

I wouldn’t buy a Spear here in the USA. They don’t have an established distribution, support, and warranty resolution network. And mailing a frame back to China and waiting for a resolution isn’t practical

[@jameseastwood402]

@petersouthernboy6327 they have an authorised US dealer.

[@joe4624]

Great to have Joe back on. You guys always have the best chat

[@Yamaha_Bolt]

Agreed. These three are top notch

[@Cycle.every.day.]

I just love how the Chinese bike stuff irritates the snobby cyclists

[@tylerlougheed214]

I broke my 10 year old Cervelo S3 a couple months ago forcing me to finally upgrade my bike. I really hate the idea of having the same bike as everyone else and my original S3 stood out. Yes, there were other Cervelos and even a couple S3s, but not with the same colourway or rim brake. I've decided my replacement is going to be a Chinese frame (Winspace) and Chinese wheels (Farsports). I'm building it up with an Ultegra 12-speed. It's a bit of an experiment but also a bit of an f-you to the ridiculous costs of the Western brands. Interested to see how it rides once I have the build complete and see how it performs in my regular group rides.

[@Onigure]

​@@tylerlougheed214 Please do comment and share your honest opinion on chinese parts.

[@tylerlougheed214]

@@Onigure Will do - But bear in mind I'm coming from a 2014 Cervelo S3. I haven't ridden any of the current modern bikes so my frame of reference is 10+ years old.

[@michaels1808]

Extremely interesting to hear about the Chinese bike industry. Thanks! In regards to Pandapodium, Joe mentioned the task of making wheel selection easier. I wish you would start with the very simple thing of adding some filters to the wheelsets category. Brand, purpose (road/gravel), height, width etc. Very basic web shop functionality. Would make finding stuff much easier 😊.

[@tylerlougheed214]

It's not just about knowledge that drove me to Panda Podium, it's reputation and a level of trust in Joe. He's clearly done the work, is honest and transparent. Just waiting for my Farsports Evo wheels to ship - can't wait.

[@ChinaCycling]

Hey, thanks for your custom. We'll try get those out to you ASAP. A tiny backlog from Black Friday, but I see lots of Farsports shipping every day...so... yours will be on their way soon. Enjoy your hoops!

[@mysho6317]

Joe is ALWAYS a Great guest. His knowledge, experience, explanations, relationships & personality are an engaging combination. Your Questions were perfect. Thanks for the special episode😎

[@ChinaCycling]

Yeah, these two guys keep me on track else i will just 'yadda yadda yadda' for days. :)

[@mysho6317]

@@ChinaCycling Joe; Your unique position in the Industry is SO valuable especially for those of us who shop for the Brands You represent.👍

[@melbournecyclingsegments7510]

bought my first chinese wheelset in 2016 (Yoeleo)...and its still going strong

[@Currieinahurrycycles]

We need yada yada yada tees 🤣 always great having joe on. 😎

[@ChinaCycling]

That would be dope... we could do blue ones, pink ones, white ones, yadda yadda...

[@nochancecw]

For anyone wondering, the list of wheels Joe approves to sell on PandaPodium is: -CRW -Faraports -9Velo -Magene -No6 -Yoeleo -Pertual -Scom -Cybrei -EXS

[@johnnyboy4711]

Elite wheels user for over 5 years and no issues!

[@ChinaCycling]

@@johnnyboy4711 I have no gripes with Elite! I also have a pair of the drive wheels. A tried and tested wheel!

[@robsch1000]

Why no Elitewheels?

[@robertchandler587]

Nero show on Sunday…Xmas come early!!

[@JulAlxAU]

Some time ago, I got into the audio hobby-speakers, headphones, DACs, and the like. In that world, people often pay a hefty premium for cables, convinced that one sounds better than another. It feels like we’re seeing a similar kind of obsession in the cycling industry!

[@simple4586]

I mean cycling snake oil isn't exactly snake oil. There is quantifiable physics and a lot of the premium is justified. Btw, I was in the audio hobby and laughed at those thousand dollar cables.

[@christopherdavies3982]

Not a big Nero fan (disgruntled ex-Sydney sider with a rusted on shoulder chip about anything to do with that city and its cycling scene), but this interview was so so so so so good! Incredibly interesting issue, and Chris and Jesse prepared some really great questions that prompted some revelatory discussion from Joe. Feeling a bit bigger brained after sitting through this!

[@ChrisMillerCycling]

Thanks. Though I have to say I’m incredibly curious about the grudge you are harbouring towards the sydney cycling scene. If it’s the eastern Sydney bubble I totally get it. it’s funny how people seem to assume we are in that “inner circle” … something that couldn’t be further from the truth.

[@christopherdavies3982]

In fairness, I was never really in the Sydney cycling scene proper when I lived there nearly 15 years ago. I came up at a time when fixies and cyclocross were being marketed as 'underground', 'alternative' and 'DIY' approaches to cycling, and these cultures espoused some kind of philosophical antipathy to anything road cycling. Being in Sydney at the time, that equated to 'Sydney road cycling = not good'. I now live in Melbourne (*cue exasperated sighs*), and road cycle. It would be more correct to chalk up any performative animosity I have toward Sydney as symptomatic of a broader historical inter-city rivalry, applicable to anything from cycling, to music/art/culture, food, trams, public transport, rent and flatter urban environments! Upon deep reflection, I withdraw my earlier comment :)

[@christopherdavies3982]

@@ChrisMillerCycling Also I am a secret diehard Nero fan, but afraid of having my Melbourne passport cancelled if I say anything express to that point.

[@Yamaha_Bolt]

Love these year end videos. On products everyone wants but are seemingly never in stock EXS handlebars! Get on them Joe. Prices on everything are great at PP but our Canadian dollar is shit re USD. Thanks guys!

[@ChinaCycling]

It's almost an internal joke at this point. We bump into the EXS guys quite often as their office is like 300m from ours... we always greet them with "Any aerovers in stock?" As for the CAD, its probably also poop against the yuan, which is what we use to buy products. :(

[@davidlilja9180]

In the mid-late 1980s, I worked as a mere testing tech at Holden's Experimental Engineering when the VN was yet to be released and watched a BMW 7-series 'disappear' into a car lift to go upstairs for a strip-down analysis of what made the car 'tick'. Everyone who is making anything needs to know what the opposition is doing and how. "Keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer!"

[@ChinaCycling]

Oh yeah, the car industry does this. Apparently Toyota, etc have WAREHOUSES just full of stripped down Hondas, etc, etc.

[@10100110101]

Nearly 2 hours ! I have to say, I do get flat when the pod/episode comes to an end. I comment this on all my favourite podcasts/youtube channels. We’re fans. We don’t want time limits on these things. Cheers guys

[@slabbery]

I loved this. I hope this is the start of a Nero show Christmas series of interview wpisodes like last year. You guys make the best cycling content on youtube. Hurry up and get the new nero suits up for sale so I can give you more money!

[@adammillsindustries.]

I was going to mention to do this for an episode but you guys were already on it!! 😊

[@ShawnIsBatman]

I am fascinated by the Chinese market dynamics and could listen to Joe talk about it every day....outstanding episode, thanks to all!!! On the custom build vs. complete bike. I can state with 99.9% certainty that I will be swapping out the saddle, pedals, bars and wheels at some point. The decision of full custom vs. complete bike is merely a matter of how much I want to customize initially and what is the easiest and most cost effective way for me to get the frame that I want. As someone who is patient and am willing to wait for a deal, my last two bikes have been "complete", however, I then started the game of swapping-out parts very quickly.

[@8rk]

what a sunday treat!! have to do some work today and this just made my day much better

[@BrennanMoore]

My conspiracy theory on the lack of coverage of Chinese wheels in mainstream cycling media is that the big brands are like “just give us a year and we’ll give you the exclusive on the new Zipp/Enve/whatever”

[@roberthealey6820]

Another one knocking it out of the park. Bravo and thank you guys 👏👏👏

[@U.s.e.r.3493]

What a nice little bonus to start the week. The only cycling podcast I eagerly await each week

[@byrnze1710]

Perfect Z3 tempo ear candy! Thank you gents!

[@davewhumphreys]

Really good episode boys, had only planned an hour on the trainer, and ended up staying on for the full episode when I saw it in my KZbin feed. The China Bike chat has been really interesting over the last few months, and I think you’ve successfully changed my mind. My next bike in early 2025 was already going to be one of those that Joe mentioned, but to hear him mention it on this episode reaffirmed the decision for me. But JESUS CHRIST - the amount of adverts on this episode were nearly unbearable. I must have had two dozen - not sure if it’s the same for everyone, but I nearly turned off and put on the latest Cade Media video….

[@ianjlilly]

I'm not a KZbin (paid) subscriber and I got a flurry of adverts in the first 1/3 of the video but then the frequency tailed off.

[@Mikeatcitycycle]

Joe is an exceptional attribute to the cycling industry in general. More companies need to be helmed by the likes of Joe. Chapeau. His willingness to actually engage in forums where things can get very tricky and difficult for a business owner still surprises me to this day. I sincerely hope he is earning great money!

[@alanp8724]

Awesome episode. Great hearing Joe’s info. I’m a full Chinese consumer(winspace wheeltop cybrei crw). Bought a set of the farsports wheels from panda podium during the poddy

[@jameseastwood402]

Got to the end... The Seka Spear comes with the best manual I've ever seen! Where to grease, exact torque for every bolt, step by step build guide.

[@ChinaCycling]

Their level of professionalism is on point. Packaging, User Manual, Marketing... All on par with the big boys.

[@jkotsche7035]

Very good conversation. It's good to hear about things outside the bubble. ++++

[@Carftymk]

why all the dislikes? joe is one of the better guests and chinese bikes are infinitely more interesting than "new" western bikes that are 20g lighter but sell for 15k

[@alicangul2603]

Doesn't KZbin hide dislikes? How do you see it?

[@Carftymk]

@@alicangul2603 "return YT dislike" browser extension. 800 likes 100 dislikes atm

[@jameseastwood402]

Xenophobia. People feel more comfortable with it because the dislikes are hidden. Strange world.

[@kimwarner6050]

As a rider who is 4'11 Joe is absolutely right about the custom build. Why pay for something you can't use, and then have to pay to have it replaced.

[@space.youtube]

What's immediately apparent is the Chinese collaborative approach that recognises outside expertise, utilises it and incorporates it to create new product, is far more agile and responsive than the western competitive approach. As a consequence, products iterate and evolve at a pace that western companies can't. Sure the Chinese economy of scale plays a role, but all things being equal the Chinese collaborative model is superior to the western competitive model in many ways. I'm a huge fan of the Chinese bike industry because consumers are the big winners from their market participation. Their "high end"products are world class AND competitively priced. They are literally driving innovation both in China and the west. They are delivering the enema the legacy western bike brands have long needed, and I'm here for it. Having said that, always have, always will love Campagnolo and the Italian brands because 'traditionnnnn......TRADITION !!!"

[@mrfarsh1]

+1 here for some Panda Podiun rim brake wheels 👍

[@BS-jb9wv]

Would love Joe to make a top list of rim brake carbon wheels in 2025!

[@ChinaCycling]

@@BS-jb9wv I think it would be a very short list. *sad panda*

[@BS-jb9wv]

@@ChinaCycling I still want it!

[@lincolnlu9869]

​@@ChinaCyclingi just want to know if i should get the elite or 9 velo wheels

[@Onigure]

​@@lincolnlu9869 I own a set of Elitewheels Drive 50v. They have 3 years of constant riding and the only box they don't check the box is in compliance. If you have rough roads, I would recommend anything with steel spokes.

[@jonsteiner8515]

I think it’s time boys! What if… Joe sends you the top 5 Panda Podium wheel sets and you back/back test them for any length of time you see fit. Test them against your Reserves and a couple other Western wheel sets as a benchmark (any industry standing in the racing world - thinking Roval CLXII, Scope). It would also be great to get a mechanic’s view on the repair/tunability of the wheels (hub/spokes). None of the big news outlets want to include Chinese wheels in their test comparisons, so save us from the unknown! I would trust you over Bike Radar any day.

[@jonsteiner8515]

This was a killer episode, BTW

[@mrmarktucker]

and the Velo Kings 🧢 on the top shelf🙌

[@steve-d0]

Joe could make a killing making some decent light rim brake wheels due to the amount of blokes that like building up old/retro frames with modern components. It amazes me that everyone seems to have ditched the whole market.

[@robertvesetas8751]

Yes, I would get this

[@Popcorn_Rider]

What an episode!!

[@chevyyyyyyy]

Useful, insightful info. Thanks.

[@robbieroockley3664]

There is no problem with getting a Seka Spear RDC in the UAE. 4-6 week wait time, but we have a dealer and I know 2 other people that have bought one. I emailed Cache about getting one from Aus and didn’t get a response. Great customer service! The Seka Packaging, manual and finish was second to none. Highly recommended! 👌🏻

[@Hangingofgiants]

Riding my original Aspero and just upgraded wheels to some 9velo gravel wheels. Being stocked on Joes site definitely helped add to the credibility. They have been all i could have hoped for so far. Also i kinda like the irony of the 'done his research ' wheel choice paired with old Sram Apex look 😅

[@roveism]

Shows with JO is the BEST WOoooT Woooottt!

[@sportsembedded]

Best podcast of 2024, nailed it.

[@ciprian7]

Listening to Joe covering the cycling industry if like a glass of water after a handful of salt, brilliant and fresh

[@ChinaCycling]

Haha, thanks! Drink more hot water, good for healthy. ;)

[@paragp14573]

@@ChinaCycling Seriously. One of the most comprehensive podcast covering the entire cycling industry landscape of China with so much insights. I am big Chinese components and accessories fan and this evolution of their identity is such a happy feeling. Really authentic. 🙏

[@danielfrancis6900]

Bring the complete China bike builds with the option of a mainstream groupset on PP.

[@ClivedeSousa]

Great discussion guys.

[@jasoneiserich8638]

Excellent episode! Thank you, gents! Joe, will I see you at Sea Otter this year? Cheers, Jason

[@terbennett]

Glad to see Joe back on and that CAAD10 frameset in front of him looks really nice. Not sure why you guys weren't already over 100k subs. Your show is top notch! Come on people! Let's get those sub numbers up!!

[@ChrisMillerCycling]

Yeah the CAAD10 is a classic!

[@thereeder5rs]

The idea of a rim break modern wheel sets is very intriguing! I would modernize some of my old bikes and modern wheels would push that to happen.

[@matkrek]

Elite and winspace have 21mm internals, 28mm external wheelsets. Cant go much wider due to caliper limitations

[@KushPizzaSleep]

@@matkreknothing is stopping companies from making new rim brake callipers, this is a stupid excuse at this point

[@_gregvalencia]

​@@KushPizzaSleepWhatever brand spends the time and resources to redesign a rim brake caliper caliper to go wider would honestly be wasting a ton of time and money. All to accommodate wheels that don't exist using an outdated and inferior braking tech. It's not as easy as just making a new caliper. It's R&D, prototyping, safety/integrity checks, minimum order quantities (for a product that won't sell). It's cool in theory, but the time to do that was a decade ago. And even if they made the new calipers, wheel brands would have to think that there are enough customers for them to even consider making a new line of wheels that would potentially only work on these new groupsets. And this is coming from someone who only owns rim brake bikes

[@KushPizzaSleep]

@@_gregvalencia well they actually already exist have you heard of long reach calipers, disc brakes are a scam to up charge if pros could ride anything they want they would all be rim brakes, Chinese brands are still pumping out modern rim wheelsets

[@_gregvalencia]

@ no one forced the pros to switch to disk brakes. The 2022 Tour de France was won on rim brakes. Disk brakes are just better. You can brake later before cornering and you can actually brake in the rain. Why would the pros, the best and most competitive cyclists switch to disk if that put them at a disadvantage?

[@joseandreramirez]

Good stuff boys! ❤❤❤❤

[@davidnicholson6680]

Really interesting topic. I find this fascinating from both a cycling and business perspective.

[@barryliu3473]

SURPRISE SUNDAY LETS GOOO

[@julienhuxley4172]

Awesome to have Joe on! Thanks for this special

[@mypojam]

That was 2 hours and I watched thru all of it. Always loved Panda Podium

[@ZenGarage]

Awesome podcast guys. We just recently did a photoshoot with Jennifer Kay’s new S-Works SL8 which features China parts that she sourced from Joe at Panda Podium. The images have broken the internet with over 8,800 likes on Instagram which goes to show that the higher-end China made parts are starting to be accepted world wide.

[@ChinaCycling]

We talk about Jen's bike a bit. :)

[@ZenGarage]

@@ChinaCycling ahaha I saw! Was too quick to make a post. Chris' comments on Jen's bike are interesting. If you speak to her though, she'll tell you the bike is "wildly good"!

[@angelortiz353]

Took a chance on the crw and all i can say is WOW ALMOST A YEAR NOT ONE ISSUE AND THEY ARE FAST💪💪

[@Hogiewheels]

Fantastic episode lads

[@GFunkEra77]

Awesome video. I've specc'd my Madone with some Chinese goodies, zero complaints. Next up, wheels

[@htukmumfie]

Interesting show. Cheers.

[@davewhumphreys]

Get Hambini on for a special - that'll be a great conversation to listen to

[@byrnze1710]

Jen's bike looks SWEET BTW!

[@capncotter1]

Chris the kind of guy who thinks a lighter crank makes your bike “dogshit” and “twitchy” 😂

[@CUPAVI1]

I installed 167.5 Cybrei crankset on my bike, that will do some 6.000 km in India in Jan-Feb. It will be fun to see how it performs

[@goldenretriever6261]

Hope you don't get the shits.

[@kolyalevchuk6414]

Brilliant timing, just hopped on turbo.

[@andrewbaggett8664]

You mention custom vs package, what about getting a Factor Ostro? Choose groupset, crank length (down to 165), one of two wheel depths (with or without white decals), your own stem length, your own handlebar width and your set setback. Pretty custom, but all in the 'package'.

[@Aviationislifef35]

What I am hearing is that it is a spectrum of rabbit hole money games. 😂

[@ChinaCycling]

So many rabbit holes.

[@vincesorrentino7871]

Chris, any updates on the Speed Wobble No.6 Wheel ?

[@SamuelBlackMetalRider]

56:08 ooooh new aero do it all super Chinese frame spotted: InLine Speedster+ for 2500E

[@Hambini]

The bike industry aero is indeed an attempt to market mediocre practices as high tech. Marketing wide wheels as aerodynamic is next level...

[@shimona500]

Ok mr oil refinery engineer

[@imrevadasz1086]

The most ridiculous part is that wide wheels make the tire wider, which is a disadvantage both for aerodynamics (larger frontal area) and doesn't help, or might be worse for comfort. Forcing the wheel into a slimmer but higher shape with a less wide wheel actually seems to be better for comfort, because of the longer suspension range.

[@utube7930]

​@@shimona500Ok BPoomer?

[@awake-notwoke6473]

wide rim and tyre combo is just hilarious, the sheep are conned by the comfort not seeing the increased drag and friction

[@greg4318]

Spot on but hey why let a good marketing story interfere with the science…………

[@mrwezbo]

Have only just started so unsure if it's mentioned, but Joe's bike at the start looks great in that colourway, love to find out what/where that is

[@TwoWheelsWithTC]

It’s a Quick Pro AR:One. He’s got a couple of videos on his channel, and the frame is available to buy on Panda Podium in that colour scheme!

[@ChinaCycling]

@@TwoWheelsWithTC Thanks for helping out. :)

[@TwoWheelsWithTC]

@ChinaCycling No worries! I am actually going to order one in the Team colour scheme! 😎

[@KameelMotionFit]

Great video

[@whizler]

Disagree with Chris and agree with Joe. Ride feel is so subjective that it's impossible for bike manufacturers to "spec" a comfortable bike for everyone. A custom bike is much more likely to achieve the nirvana of comfort and speed, assuming the rider is somewhat knowledgeable.

[@nickporter3531]

Some of the issue (certainly in the UK) is supply. Most of the Chinese brands you have to mail order in yourself as the big “western” brands have the distribution. That being said we all know that most of the big brand wheels and frames are made in China, Taiwan and other places in the far east “made in the UK/Europe/USA” is a rare thing today. When the distribution and customer service is sorted out then the big brands will have a real problem.

[@alsbikeshed]

Winspace and Tavelo have established UK dealers. Others will follow. It’s good for customer choice and competition.

[@imrevadasz1086]

Quite sad that hub bearing sealing and easy maintenance are taking a backseat nowadays. I just bought a NOS (new-old-stock) Sachs rear hub from the 90s with cartridge bearings for 15€. And it actually has proper well made labyrinth seals to protect the bearings, and perfectly smooth bearings. They very likely used SKF bearings everywhere, a notable part of SKF originated from Sachs. So many hubs today, even supposedly relatively good ones like the DT Swiss 350 only have some "endcaps" (which seems like a really cheap solution in comparison). And that's all just because of a few extra steps in cnc machining that would be needed on the hub and the endpieces. I often feel like there must have been a coordinated media campaign to discredit Shimano's hubs that are very well sealed on their quality models. And Shimano uses some neat tricks to keep production cheap by having some steel parts pressed into the aluminum shell in the factory.

[@MartinBrown-mb7pz]

Semi-custom all the way. Mostly the brands are just putting together a package that works for them, price point, sounds good. Sell me a frameset with seatpost and cockpit, let me choose drivetrain and build my own wheels on my prefrred rims and hubs.

[@Ghost12561]

We should do a schematic diagram of all the layers of bicycle manufacturing in China and who are they manufacture for. Drop names, so it is crystal clear 😅

[@cibo23]

my 2 cents on the wheels. chinese brands are no longer cheap, yet lack lost of r&d. reliability and after sales support are big question mark. on the flip side you can find good discounts on western brands where the difference comes to %20-30 with life time warranty, lots of r&d with proper brands (like zipp, dt swiss, FF etc) and fantastic after sales support

[@jameseastwood402]

@@cibo23 what is that warranty really worth? Who is claiming warranty on wheels, what's going wrong exactly? Fwiw Yoeleo do 2 years with the option to extend to 5 years. I think it's kind of meaningless though.

[@xocoyotl4]

You talk about chinese brands as if they were a big monolyth. There are chinese brands with provable Quality, reliability and great customer service, like. I got My 45mm deep gravel wheels from 9velo and they are spectacular. Regarding R&D, I don't even know what you mean with that. I just care about build quality and reliability. If those features are a result of r&d or not, I couldn't care less.

[@djsaintb]

But western wheels are heavier at the moment. I’d love a lighter Zipp for $1500.

[@zikaperic2133]

from my personal experience i would agree...

[@Once-a-fatman-nownormal]

It all seems to have gone very quiet regarding Chinese group set.

[@martye8347]

I'd argue there is still a stigma around a lot of Chinese products in the market. There is a lot of cheap and nasty stuff out there which tars everything with the same brush. 'Copy others, but produce it cheaper' is a common perception (think Temu adverts). This results in (legitimate?) concerns around safety and (less so) stolen IP. This is improving, as their products do. As mentioned in the video there are a lot of derivative products but this is slowly changing. I think the X-Lab x Astana sponsorship will go someway to helping the visibility of Chinese products.

[@andrewcockburn7484]

I don't see a problem with generic hubs as long as they are made properly. The last thing i want is a model specific hub from a small far eastern brand without spares support in europe.

[@jchaus5]

I see a business opportunity based on your comments: how to combine components that make sense, based on rider characteristics. Someone like me has insufficient knowledge to do so. My local bike shop has three brands & is thus not positioned to do so. Pair frames with wheels, groupsets, and etc., geared towards a few standardized rider types.

[@kjellotterlei7810]

I have set of DT Swiss ARC 1400 50 mm. DT 180 hubs are fantastic and so on, but you got me very curious about the CRW’s. So considering selling the DT Swiss wheelset and buying a CRW 50/55 set. What’s your’re opinion about that? Weight is the main reason in addition to that awesome glossy look of the CRW’s.

[@_gregvalencia]

The 50/60 set is the one that every raves about. It seems it's their "current generation" in terms of wheel philosophy. If you look at the 50/60, and the 65/75 you will see the trend of having a 25mm internal up front and a decent external rim width. The 40/45 and 50/55 are older models and both have the same internal width front and rear at 21mm which is narrow by current standards. It seems that the 65/75 (the most recent release) is the only set by them to fully convert to modern internal rim widths for both front and rear. I hope they will one day fully update their range so there isn't a compromised in rim width at different depths. If you don't want the 50/60, I would look at another brand on Panda Podium. The FARSPORTS 2025 New EVO S5 (50mm front and rear) are lighter and potentially $200 cheaper if you go with steel bearings.

[@U.s.e.r.3493]

Joe could talk to a compant like CRW and do a limited run of premium wheelsets for USD3-4K, probably a hard sell but could just test the waters if that market might exist, given the evolving view on the quality of China direct products

[@ChinaCycling]

Its often on the discussion table... but also there'll be a bit of backlash of people who don't read behind the lines and just think its a money grab. Buuut... I really would like the ride that wheelset... haha. We shal see. ;) ;)

[@U.s.e.r.3493]

@ChinaCycling we're waiting! 😁

[@caipeter5648]

中国现在在自行车套件技术上比不了，但是也有三个品牌发布了无线电子变速套件。车架 轮组的都不错

[@pipoann]

Buying from Joe is a no-brainer, he has the relationships with the brands, they have good customer service so they can help you out when problems arise. The only concern I have is when sthg goes wrong. For instance I am not going to Send my wheels off to China when a spoke is damaged and get a solution in 3 months time. I want to be able to take my wheels to the lbs and have them fixed. Scrolling through the panda podium wheel offering I see fewer steel spoked wheels. I hope there will still Be a market for these going Forward!

[@naf2579]

BTLOS wheels have Advanced Titanium Fiber Rope Spokes.

[@mudonsunday]

Shame I can’t get a set of CRw’s in rim brake. Waiting on Joe to release one. 😂

[@skidooboondocker]

Chris, are you saying “it’s all about the package”. Hmm

[@ChristopherGarza-rz8wc]

I wish Joe would be involved in going down the track cycling rabbit hole regarding Chinese manufactures and products, God bless him though🤔

[@timtaylor9590]

Not carbon or steel spokes, they gotta be string spokes.

[@SamuelBlackMetalRider]

That’s EXACTLY what we want

[@chrisscott8362]

Add a rim brake, 50mm deep/ 28mm wide carbon wheelset to panda podium! Please take my money.

[@EryPrihananto]

Caad10 😍

[@yendoradon7836]

How soon to see Colnago style bars

[@lilth501]

I wonder if Joe and hambani ever been in the same KZbin forum, could be interesting?

[@keatonhanson]

Mr. Joe! King of the Yada Yada’s!

[@sondrebergo]

1:38:00, whats wrong with that bike, its beautiful 🤩 I would much rather have that less expensive lighter stiffer bike than a stock bike with wrong crankarms

[@johnnyboy4711]

Chinese frames becoming as close on price as mainstream brands on sale, so why bother? FYI i have three sets of elite wheels (road,TT and Gravel) and a lexon GFX gravel frame. Isn't everything from China?

[@pibil8052]

rim brake wheels ,,, hell YEAH