L TWOO RX Hydraulic Groupset: We have a problem (Or two)

[@ChinaCycling]

Wow, this video has been a mission to get out! The video was fully done, then Trace Velo dropped his video and I noticed some differences in our groupsets. Then I spotted something in the comments of his video which also changed the direction of this video. Wow... Anyway, here for you all to enjoy, warts and all!

[@TraceVelo]

Right then dude, LOADS to unpack here! Firstly, wicked episode, and thanks for the shoutout! It’s been SUPER interesting comparing notes on this, and really appreciate the honesty with this one! When new stuff like this comes out it’s always such a steep learning curve. I mean in my video I claimed the brakes were post mount, which is COMPLETELY false, so can definitely sympathise with the braking issue you faced! What I would say though is that reflecting on my process, I do have a tendency to give these Chinese brands quite a lot of slack. In general, you are not paying top dollar, so in my experience this just part of the trade-off. BUT you are totally right in regard to the massive kink in the brake hose on my set. I’m willing to let it slide, but in reality, it should never have been shipped out like that. Also, the fact there are literally zero instructions or documentation included, again I’ve come to expect this with many of these cheaper options, but this would never be acceptable from any of the bigger brands. Plus to be honest, the price I paid for my set, although still cheaper than the competition, £360 is coming _dangerously_ close to Shimano 105 R7020 territory… Anyway, I cannot wait to get my set installed on the next build and see if anything matches your experience here. I have the same IceTech rotors, and some carbon spoke wheels, so really interested to see if the clearance issues are also present. Also the shifting issue you describe, where the shift paddle doesn’t ‘return home’ fully, I have this EXACT same issue… Testing these in parallel is going to be interesting that’s for sure! Roll on 2023!!!

[@Pav_1983]

Lack of oil in Trace Velo's set may be because it is a chemical mixture. L-Twoo would have to have 'Only representative' in the EU/GB to comply with REACH.

[@Kevin-lw1kq]

Thanks for doing this. I'm in the US and dabble with Chinese parts through AliExpress as a hobbyist. I'm inspired by you and Luke to try these new group sets, but between the manufacturers' undocumented revisions and confusing listings from resellers, it's hard to know if I'm getting an old set with the issues you've uncovered or the latest and greatest. I'm also entirely unconvinced my concerns would reach other customers if I were to leave a negative review on an AliExpress reseller's listing. I for one would love to see unmistakable revisioning in the product name or design (1.0, 1.1 etc). Hopefully this feedback loop you are building can lead to better overall experience for cyclists everywhere!

[@shannonparker7404]

@@TraceVelo Bravo Luke! This will be good.

[@mireia3208]

@@TraceVelo After adjusting the free stroke screw in mine like @ChinaCycling mentioned, I stopped having this paddle not returning and blocking the downshift issue. I will likely go for a ride tomorrow with mine, to see if the braking settles down (for now it is so-so, but rotors and pads being new could explain it) and also the shifter (not as precise as I would like it to be for now). Another silly 'after mounting' issue: the downshift lever has a elongated hole in the ruber hoods for it to move. Well, after putting the handlebar tape, it slightly creates a bulge in that part and it slightly interferes with that paddle. So silly !!

[@PeakTorque]

I just want these Chinese companies to slow down. Please do not not release unfinished, pre-production products AT ALL and use paying customers as a massive Beta program. Whats more confusing, is that they don't often value the beta feedback, they just swerve the issues. Joe, you and I both know this! They have the people, the know-how, the end to end production, its all in their favour! But the GO TO MARKET is often rushed, with various resellers and outlets making a quick buck, customers getting different revisions/rolling changes, all of which seriously damage their brands. At the moment this is what's stopping these brands from being taken seriously. Also big up to Shannon - towed me around the Beijing mountains for 3 days including an unforgettable night ride into a mountain home stay. Brilliant.

[@ChinaCycling]

Yeah, I think we're on the same page. That's why I left this video with the "issue" in the edit. Although the issue is basically a non-issue after the grub screw adjustment, the inclusion of an instruction manual would have worked wonders. For lots of these companies testing = money and time. They can struggle with cash-flow, but I'm just saying the reason, it's not an excuse.

[@pepessz32]

I'm not surprised, judging from Sensah empire who went into 4th iteration before it's really settled. I guess that's just how Chinese manufacturer works, as if they produce in "Sprint" way kind of framework, lol.

[@Membrillo81]

There are many reasons why they operate the way they do. Depending on the company culture, management personality and background and other idiosyncrasies, they may check all of these reasons or only some of them. One is: they're usually paranoid about everyone wanting to steal their great ideas. They tend to keep development as secret as they can, even from employees that should have a say about the new products. They rush the products into the market for this reason and they don't think, or don't want to know, that the inevitable issues can hurt their brand reputation. They really believe that fixing the problems as the customers find them is good enough. It's appalling.

[@slowcyclist4324]

I think….as much as the price point is enticing, I’ll just stick to the big brands. Pay peanuts, and you get monkeys.

[@hkchew03]

@@pepessz32 At least Sensah issue is due to durablity which is harder to detect, and stiff left shifter due to deraileur tension doesn't make it impossible to use as well.

[@shepshape2585]

Glad you got the brake lever problem fixed and that it was simple to do. And yes, I agree that each batch of product should be the same, but that's where you and Trace Velo and others like you come in. You are the guinea pigs, which is why we love you. We all wait until you've gone through all the pains and product fixes, and when you finally tell us it's good to go, we put our money down. So while it's a huge pain in the butt for you, that's why you have so many subs, because you do the work we don't want to do. And thanks for that!

[@thispod]

The lever preload apparently also moves the lever away from the shifter. This should prevent any interference in the paddle return fixing the issue with the thumb button being unusable

[@tillman5529]

I hope he will confirm this 🤞 if you are right that would be awesome

[@ChinaCycling]

Nope, that clip is mis-leading. Adjusting the grub screw moved the brake lever from it's 'home' position, but after you give it a squeeze, it goes back 'home'

[@tillman5529]

@@ChinaCycling ok. Thanks for clarifying

[@olp1994]

i think he meant the grub screw on the shift pedal, not the preload grub screw on the brake lever.

[@belverticale]

I hope Sensah come up with a response and bring out their own hydraulic set as I really love their 3 in 1 shifters. Here's hoping. Few teething issues with this Ltwoo perhaps but let's keep an eye on the big picture - the rise of these Chinese drive chains has been meteoric and the products are getting very close to the big established brands. Another year or so and Shimano will regret bringing out a version of 105 that costs 1800 bucks.

[@ChinaCycling]

I think the future is bright, but we can't give them a get out of jail free card. They still have to be accountable for every error. The future is good though.

[@QuickQuips]

I'd be more optimistic about microshift trying that. I haven't heard of similar qc issues from them, though they tend to be more conservative with tech maybe because it's Taiwan.

[@DanieleOttorogo]

reach out sensah on their store and they told me that their hydraylic groupset will be released in March this year

[@jakou31]

@@DanieleOttorogo Oooohhh that's hot !

[@ricardorusso1462]

small problems aside, this still feels like a game changer. I am confident most of these issues will be solved in a few months

[@ChinaCycling]

Yeah, I feel like a few months down the road and this is golden.

[@hkchew03]

As much as it being perfected overtime, its still a major overlook on the brake sponginess and stuck shifting lever blade, no way they could have missed it during development and testing. If someone can point out the issue and replicate it easily, the testing team should have caught the issue before the final release, unless this is just a one off case of bad QC.

[@edwoodsnowden]

Looks like a half baked unfinished product to be honest, years off........

[@trailfork7815]

I wish, their mtb sets have been plagued by issues for years

[@Road7star]

thank you so much . Most thorough and un-bias review I have seen. I pulled the trigger on these last night before seeing this review so I hope the issue has cleared up. right now the Erx version is overprice and it might because of the supply and demand issues as stated. Thanks again. you have won a subscriber.

[@keanubartolata3465]

This is what we need! Responsible Creators that actually make a difference. To reserve judgement is not that difficult.

[@janeblogs324]

6:22 the angle of the parallelogram makes me happy. Older shimano were straight and had inconsistent tension, once the cable stretched it fails to upshift on some gears

[@TheGotoGeek]

The brake adjustment is called free stroke, which is very common on higher level MTB brakes. Looks like it came all the way out, which is how you're supposed to do the initial bleed. Something that's become common is to treat customers like testers: ship a product, and then make rolling changes based on feedback. This is almost (but not really) tolerable with software. With hardware it's a problem. Shimano doesn't do that, but then again they have a lot more resources than L-Twoo or Sensah. As they design and build more products they'll get better at getting the product right the first time, but for now it really seems to be a case of "wait six months before purchasing."

[@ChinaCycling]

Never used high end MTB brakes, haha. But yeah some instructions would be nice.

[@stevetreinen6070]

Hi Joe, thanks I trust your opinions. I started riding Elves a couple years ago based partially on your opinion, been great. I'll try this group when I can buy it at a fairer price. I'm also going to check out the SERT frame. Thanks for what you do and stay healthy.

[@ChinaCycling]

Always love it when someone is having success using my suggestions. Keep on truckin' Steve!

[@warayupay84]

You, Luke, PT, and Hambini are the Beatles of the cycling world. Keep it up and happy new year to all!

[@ChinaCycling]

Do I get to be Ringo? Merry Christmas and a happy new year!

[@Gregory_tottie]

@tracevelo is prob Ringo because he wasn’t part of the cool wall. He should be though. He’s cool.

[@cycleriderroy]

Recently I got their GRT Groupset for review, lets see how that works

[@joemalone8331]

My LBS also here in Xiamen said the groupset had some problems about 2 weeks before your video published. My suspicions were confirmed when I saw you upload. Good video as always :)

[@ChinaCycling]

You're in Xiamen? Come ride with us. :) :)

[@joemalone8331]

@@ChinaCycling Sure. I'm currently in vacation in the Philippines though

[@boldtrail]

This is very helpful. I have this groupset and plan on installing it soon. My groupset did not come in the fancy packageing, and like yours, it did not come with instructions. I plan on posting a detailed video showing how to install and dial it in once I figure it out.

[@neilmcgurk2227]

Looks like the brake adjustment also solved the shifting issue? From the video at the end, after adjustment there appears to be a gap between the levers, whereas before it looks like they are fouling.

[@robertwhyte3435]

I saw the same thing. Commented before I read your comment. Like others have pointed out, it might be this is a good group set that needs better instructions.

[@ChinaCycling]

Nope, that clip is mis-leading. Adjusting the grub screw moved the brake lever from it's 'home' position, but after you give it a squeeze, it goes back 'home'

[@mireia3208]

Wow, thanks for the preload adjust trick. I was almost going to bleed my brakes again today because of the sponginess issue you mention. I bought my groupset from the seller that Tracevelo used too. In my case, with coupons and blablabla the price was okeish (320€ without taxes). I got however your copy of the groupset, without the RX label on the downshift button. I also did not get the hydraulic oil. The seller told me he was removing it because of shipping restrictions, and kindly gifted me with two good looking rotors (same as with tracevelo). Fair enough I think. My hydraulic hoses were fine (no kinks), but... My right shifter shift cable was not correctly inserted and it was generating a massive wrap inside the lever. For like a good couple of hours I thought my ratchet system was broken because it was not shifting through the 12 gears but there were jumps. It was also super stiff. There is also a screw that apparently controls de stiffness, it is located in the ratchet plate (you access it from the handlebar clamp side). I played with it and my shifter became suddenly so soft that I could barely notice the shifts (and it was not holding the biggest cogs positions). Turning it the other way made it much stiffer to a point comparable with what tracevelo reported. And I agree, this is the problem. The groupset, with its minor issues, seems to be very nicely made. The problem is NO real documentation, no technical documents, no information about spares or tuneable parts. I think they need to work on that (apart from unit-to-unit consistency and availability) to make it to the masses as sram, shimano and campy do. But otherwise I think they have a pretty good product in their hands. Also waiting to see what sensah will offer us :)

[@mireia3208]

By the way, sram and shimano are not free of issues. I hate the 12s Shimano XTR rear derrailleur. Absolute waterproof-less garbage design. I managed to kind of fix it replacing some parts but I am sure it will fail again in less than a year. I might even buy a ltwoo or sensah to replace it. Rust and water just creep in like if the thing was not sealed at all, and the sort of solution people propose is to fully service it every other month. Not serious I think. And sram xx1 axs is no better with its impossible finicky adjustment. So yeah, no groupset is perfect.

[@ChinaCycling]

Thanks for the comment, it shines a lot of light. Yeah, I agree with everything you said. All of these small issues would be solved with at the very least a "quick start guide" that just says what each screw does. 🤣

[@weiwenng8096]

The concept you're talking about is usually called bite point, contact point, or free stroke adjustment. I think that most hydraulic groups have it, although SRAM Rival AXS and Shimano 105 don't (not sure about Campy Centaur). Speaking of Campy, their hydraulic groups also have a hole in the lever blade like the L-Twoo levers. For Campy, that grub screw will adjust the lever reach, not the bite point.

[@ChinaCycling]

I only have one other Hyraulic groupset bike, and that is SRAM Force HRD 1x... I don't think it has this free stroke adustment...but... yeah < i feel like it make sense for groupsets to have this feature.

[@fluffymallowss4454]

I've noticed the shifting lever got more space between the brake lever when you adjusted the throw at the end of the video. Did it also eliminate the stuck shifting problem completely?

[@CycOp]

The shift lever can be seen visibly moved out as the adjust screw is turned.

[@ChinaCycling]

Nope, that clip is mis-leading. Adjusting the grub screw moved the brake lever from it's 'home' position, but after you give it a squeeze, it goes back 'home'

[@JibbaJabber]

@27:20 Did you notice that after the lever stroke adjustment, the gap between the brake and gear levers increased significantly. I'm thinking this might also resolve your other shifting issue since there's less opportunity for close proximity jamming. Noice investigation 👍😀👍

[@overthetarget9401]

Sure looked like it, might already have solved the problem.

[@ChinaCycling]

Nope, that clip is mis-leading. Adjusting the grub screw moved the brake lever from it's 'home' position, but after you give it a squeeze, it goes back 'home'

[@JibbaJabber]

@@ChinaCycling That's strange. I can see that after he gave it a few pumps, the gap still remained!? Then again, maybe he was too gentle. Anyhow, try putting some 'dry lube' like silicone spray between the sticking parts. Keep up the good work 👍💯

[@wtfiswiththosehandles]

Regarding oil in trace velo's video - it was most likely removed by seller to avoid airfreight restrictions.

[@ChinaCycling]

I agree.

[@bkflex55]

That frame is gorgeous. Popping color, so nice!

[@Membrillo81]

This is consistent with my experience working with Taiwanese companies. Launching half-cooked products and making changes along the way. They are also super proud because they are solving issues and improving the product, wtf. No user manuals too, a classic. And about you´re not getting help from them about the issue with the lever travel, well, probably the person who replied to you has not even seen the lever, let alone used it or being teached about its details.

[@ChinaCycling]

Hahhaa. You're not wrong! I'm not sure what the reason is for this attitude, but for sure it's holding many of them back. But... thankfully, there seems to be solutions for these problems...we shall see!

[@cjohnson3836]

I'm fine with no print manual so long as there's something online, and in multiple languages. I can go to Shimano's website and get diagrams to completely tear down everything they make with part numbers to replace components (although no one stocks individual bits so you have to track down supply, or hit up hardware stores for things like o-ring seals) But having end users doing the product testing is abhorrent.

[@Membrillo81]

@@cjohnson3836 Abhorrent, and common.

[@simple4586]

@@cjohnson3836 Shimano and other well known western brands tends to have iron wall qc. Testing to the limits and even be conservative with their recommendations on the equipment's limits. The only company I've liked from them Taiwanese' ,and had no real issue, is Microshift.

[@sepg5084]

@@Membrillo81 that's what people get by buying cheap alternatives. Most of the time, you get what you pay for.

[@Rowdyness11]

Great content as always Joe! - Hey... Did I see that shifter move away from the brake lever when/after you adjusted that front allen grub screw? Maybe the 'shifter-return' issue is now solved too?

[@SgtFinaldo]

Awesome to see you and @TraceVelo comparing. I'd still think about pulling the trigger on these to replace my old Force HRD set.

[@ChinaCycling]

I have force HRD on my G2 Mullet gravel bike. I think they're very comparable. Maybe the L-TWOO has higher overall braking power, but it's hard to compare apples to apples with different brake pad compounds, etc.

[@SgtFinaldo]

@@ChinaCycling I'd also add that, over the period of 4 years, I think the overall hydraulics of the callipers and hoods are worn out now, due to hard use and the DOT being quite abrasive. This Lan Twoo system looks to be the right ticket.

[@patrickjohnson2377]

Is this compatible with a Shimano 11s freehub body?

[@paulouscoquus4393]

Good of you to follow up that you found the brake contact point adjustment. This is a high end feature the ltwoo tech support should have been aware of. They really need an improved marketing dept...

[@ChinaCycling]

There were some non-marketing people in the group chat too... not sure why nobody suggested it... 🤐

[@wufler28]

I would love for a gravel groupset.

[@ChinaCycling]

There's a 1x version!

[@wufler28]

@@ChinaCycling is there a clutch on the rear derailleur?

[@WashichawbachaW]

The reason behind the exclusion of the hydraulic oil is the fire hazard restriction to these chemicals imposed in foreign countries. I think all flammable chemicals are subject to it as I myself also had several orders where the oil or grease is removed and seller confirmed it is customs policy. They are subject to a different customs permit etc.

[@ChinaCycling]

I believe you're right.

[@hisdadjames4876]

Well done for acknowledging Trace Velo👍

[@allyp7]

it seems watching you guys that these manufacturers listen to issues (maybe not like the big companies) that you point out and are able to fix them quickly.

[@ChinaCycling]

It's a double-edged sword. They listen to feedback, but then they also get used to relying on it.

[@2wheelsrbest327]

Well done Joe for great info and also for being so honest in admitting your mistake.

[@PatrickLino]

"Why don't you just go home!? That's your home!" - Happy Gilmore

[@ChinaCycling]

Hahahhhaahaha.

[@davew782]

Interestingly I've had exactly the same "sticky shifter" issue on 2 different, brand new bikes with Campanolo Ekar (which the thumb shifter design apes), and my partner had the same problem with hers. Never heard of this in reviews yet but we were 3 for 3 so not surprised a new Chinese group might suffer a similar problem.

[@ChinaCycling]

Hah! I like that you've never heard about it in reviews... shows how thorough the typical "review" is. 🤐

[@sebastianm2381]

Campagnolo Ekar has Reach Adjust screws in both the brake lever and the shift paddle for this exact reason. You can easily set it up so that the shift paddle doesn't touch the brake lever. It's all very well documented in the manual.

[@lm2906]

I have high hopes for this group. I really hope Ltwoo solve these issues.

[@ChinaCycling]

I think the issues will all be ironed it...

[@PeakTorque]

But why was it released like this. That's the mindset issue, and that needs to change.

[@IvorGreen49]

Understand the issues associated with releasing unfit goods, but is iterative product development necessarily a bad thing? Never quite understood why it is seen as the golden standard for software, but discouraged with physical systems (other than potential QC complications)

[@davidgarza2267]

@@IvorGreen49because you can’t just send out a downloadable patch to fix physical items.

[@abedfo88]

@@PeakTorque joe public is just a massive beta test?

[@Membrillo81]

Without watching the video (still not online) I want to say one thing: do not buy new products from small bike brands. Unless you do not mind to pay for being a prototype tester or you are a youtuber and want to make a video. I worked in two Taiwanese cycling brands (small type) and they do not test shit before launch.

[@dogukantosun5547]

Canyon doesn't test it either (Aeroad). It doesn't matter if it's big or small. You should not buy a cycling product as soon as it comes out. Wait until the issues are resolved.

[@Membrillo81]

@@dogukantosun5547 Yes, there's a lot of examples from big brands too. But given the number of products launched by them and the actual problems the products give, I tend to think they usually do some kind of testing. At least something more than installing the component in the factory and, if the bike doesn't explode standing still, give it the green light. Which was mainly what I saw. Anyway, I totally agree with you. Don't buy recently released products.

[@janeblogs324]

When 2nd hand 15 year old 105 shifters are selling for $100-300 this whole group set is a game changer

[@ChinaCycling]

Yeah... cycling shouldn't be restricted to those with thousands of dollars in the bank.

[@slowcyclist4324]

Indeed, cycling shouldn’t be restricted to those with thousands in the bank. The issue however, is that those without thousands in the bank think it their entitlement to ride bikes that costs in the thousands.

[@Tom.Connolly]

Happy Christmas and a peaceful new year Joe 👍👍👍👍👍👍

[@nemixCOD]

Looks to me since you made those adjustments with the allen key it also may have fixed the sticky shifting thats stops the thumb adjustment? correct me if I am wrong? but the seating of the gear / break looks different in terms of spacing after you adjusted this, so it seems this may fix 2 problems in one?

[@ChinaCycling]

Nope, that clip is mis-leading. Adjusting the grub screw moved the brake lever from it's 'home' position, but after you give it a squeeze, it goes back 'home'

[@russellml1086]

Thank you for your honesty. 🤙

[@DDGB08]

Thanks for the quick comprehensive review

[@ChinaCycling]

Don't think it was quick, but thanks all the same.

[@9118693223]

luke on trace velo fixes almost every problem of these cheap components .your frame looks amazing , and good quality .

[@ChinaCycling]

🥖🥖🥖

[@pitchforkmechanic7797]

For brake bleeding you can modify the plastic bleed blocks or use a different brand. This way you can have even piston spacing DURING the bleed process. The Park Tool bleed kit also has a 2-in-1 bleed block that is 10mm on on side and 12mm on the other. Shimano is also now selling modified bleed blocks as well, more for the purpose of piston service.

[@mireia3208]

Can you elaborate, link a picture or something? I'm interested.

[@Bear-Jew]

1.8mm is a standard bike rotor thickness. The only exemption I know about is Magura brakes that use 2mm thick rotors, so not too hard to guess.

[@nelsonglover3963]

Just sweeping statements with no data to back it up. Seems to be a theme

[@Bear-Jew]

@@nelsonglover3963 What do you mean?

[@varez93]

There are some touring bikes using Hope brakes with 3.2mm rotors (I one one).

[@Bear-Jew]

@@varez93 I know about e-bikes using Hope 2.3mm rotor. Did you mean 2.3mm?

[@marcowerner8739]

That seek bike frame really caught my attention but how can one order this product????

[@romanpramuka2703]

Interestingly, when I saw tracevelo's video before yours, I was wondering if there will be an issue with thumb lever. Because my Campagnolo centaur shifters had same problem with blocked thumb lever by not fully returned upshift lever. I solved it by removing tiny rubber bit in brake lever for preventing rattling, there is no rattling anyway. Thanks for great video.

[@ChinaCycling]

It's funny that $$$ Campagnolo also have this problem.

[@jojoanggono3229]

I thought you are going to install the groupset on Tomassini frame, or Pegoretti, things would get heated then.

[@DaveCM]

I think the problem is that they don't do a lot of R&D. It seems like they start sending them out and using the early customers as R&D. I guess it is a way to save money and get it into the market sooner.

[@ChinaCycling]

If they use 1% of their R&D budget to make "test" kits, that's probably like 15 kits. If Shimano use 1%, that's probably 1000 test kits.

[@glennoc8585]

Seeing that a lot from Chinese suppliers from wheels to gears, chains etc. It's not good

[@julienrabier]

Thanks for your video. I had seen this groupset and I think it may be interesting for a next bike. Nice discovery of the Serk brand also🤗

[@ChinaCycling]

Thanks for watching Julien! Also a fan of your work. ;)

[@julienrabier]

@@ChinaCycling 🤗 If you have some contact for L-Twoo and Serk maybe I can try their stuff.

[@bigring5113]

Looks like that throw adjustment will also fix the the paddle catching on the floppy lever

[@ChinaCycling]

Apparently not. I know it looks like that in that clip, but the paddle wasn't in it's "home" position in that clip. Anyway, one by one....

[@paulmil]

Did that brake adjustment fix the shift lever catching too? It certainly looks like it now returns to a position with a bit of space between it and the shift lever after braking.

[@hockysa]

Can’t wait for the next iteration of these China group sets. Glad there’s competition to keep the big brands honest

[@thekeytoairpower]

Looks like adjusting the lever deconflicts your shifter from the brake lever... potentially fixing two birds with one screw.

[@FusionTiger]

Got my GRT set off AliExpress last month and I’m glad to share that I do not have any issues mentioned in this video. Shifting is lovely and brake lever engage nicely, I have at least an inch distance between my fingers and shifter paddle upon full brake depression. My only complain - sounds plasticky poppy when shifting instead of the satisfying clicks with shimano and sram. No biggie but wish it sounded better haha

[@ChinaCycling]

Yeah, I guess it is pretty loud when you go through the gears!

[@deanokeano6386]

Looks like doing the free stroke adjustment gave more gap between the brake and gear levers, that may fix the sticky shifter issue mentioned earlier in the vid

[@timwhitburn6260]

I’m glad I hung around to the end to see the brake fix, maybe put the last clip near the front? I was very interested in the product until I saw this, thankfully I hung around.

[@ChinaCycling]

I did put in big letters on the screen that it's fixed at the end. I wanted the video to be in chronological order.

[@hkchew03]

Mineral oil missing is likely due to freight restriction. Liquid is classified as sensitive item and often have issue with clearance.

[@ChinaCycling]

I think so too. But still confused why mine is red not blue! Hahahha...

[@mikefreitas1331]

I have to say that I AM GLAD that the fact of living/working there hasn't disturb your capability of speaking the truth (hurts who ever hurts) and sharing with us. I've seen Luke's video and even if he bought the upgraded version of yours it has issues. Just don't understand how come they "send" you a groupset not upgraded and have no reliable assistance for it... YOU ABOVE ALL, WHO FOR ME YOU ARE THE CHINA CYCLING SPOKESMAN!!!

[@ChinaCycling]

Yeah... I am sometimes pretty confused! But hopefully this video shows that I don't hide anything and I show you guys exactly what I see! Thanks for tuning in Mike!

[@mikefreitas1331]

@@ChinaCycling Of course you don't. And that's what i went for... to point out you honesty ans transparency!!! Keep on bringing more videos of Cycling material for the people (after christmas break of course). Happy holidays for everybody

[@TheSaturnV]

Those hoods are goofy tall. Remind me of the 80's cow horn TT bar/levers.

[@higuy57]

Thanks for this video. I bought their erx groupset and had similar issues with bleeding the brakes. Didn't even think about that screw until watching this. Btw, I wanted to change my hoses since I messed up on the length (had cut it a wee bit short) and wanted to replace them. I tried contacting L-Twoo, but no response. By any chance would you happen to know what olive and needle would work as replacements for these brakes?

[@ChinaCycling]

The Shimano ones work fine. :)

[@higuy57]

@@ChinaCycling thank you very much!!

[@goonzjav]

What was the music playing over the beginning of the unboxing?

[@jonathan_f2]

I hope LTwoo continues to improve their mechanical shift levers. For example their GR9 1x gravel shifters still feel like they could be improved with ergonomic improvements. The rubber hoods gave me a palm blister and there's no way to adjust brake lever pull using a hex wrench. Though LTwoo shifting in my opinion feels a bit more precise compared to Sensah. Plus it's so fun to upshift with the thumb shifter and hearing that mechanical clanking sound!

[@jason200912]

You should get wear gloves or put tape over the hoods

[@denis401]

Looks like in the after adjustment clips, there is a gap between the brake and gear levers. Did this also fix the problem with the shifter sticking an blockin the thumb shifter action?

[@hockysa]

🥖 Also love that you and TraceVelo are comparing notes ❤

[@ChinaCycling]

The baguette and the fried rice meet... 🥖🍚

[@hockysa]

@@ChinaCycling 😂🤣😆 this needs to be a thing 🥖 🍚

[@svanimpe]

It looks like there's a reach adjust on the shift levers. You can see it in Trace Velo's unboxing. Shouldn't that fix the issue with the shift lever getting stuck on the brake lever?

[@Zeben84]

Looks like the lever adjustement also fixed the gear shifter not comming back fully since they are not rubbing each other anymore !

[@ChinaCycling]

Nope, that clip is mis-leading. Adjusting the grub screw moved the brake lever from it's 'home' position, but after you give it a squeeze, it goes back 'home'

[@Zeben84]

@@ChinaCycling :(

[@yspegel]

Not saying you should. But have you tried putting something between the brake cylinder in the shifter and the lever?

[@thedronescene7474]

That bike looks very nice! Ti? Which brand?

[@robertwhyte3435]

Looks like the adjustment fixed the clearance issue as well.

[@itstheterranaut]

It looked that way to me too.

[@ChinaCycling]

Nope, that clip is mis-leading. Adjusting the grub screw moved the brake lever from it's 'home' position, but after you give it a squeeze, it goes back 'home'

[@robertwhyte3435]

@@ChinaCycling Dang...

[@scottcopper_1]

It looks like the pre-load adjustment of the brakes should also fix the sticky shifter paddle problem. You can actually see as the mechanic tightens the screw that the gap between shifter paddle and the brake lever gets larger so the shifter paddle might not get stuck up on the back of the brake lever anymore.

[@ChinaCycling]

The clip is a bit misleading. adjusting that screw moved the lever out of it's "home" position, but after you give it a squeeze, it goes back to it's "home" position where it's rubbing the shift paddle again. Fear not, there's more tinkering to be done!

[@marekchmiel2741]

Joe, I think I might need some help 😀. The last two years I've been building bikes from used frames and selling them for profit - I've now reached a point where I want to upgrade to a good carbon wheelset, but I can't decide whether to go rim or disc. The basic principle is to keep the wheels long term while trading the rest of the bike for profit. I live in an area with steep hills and I'm not the lightest - 75 kg, so I'm thinking it's better to go disc for the longevity of the rims? The only thing I'm afraid of is the maintenance cost. Also, what would you pick as the best VALUE wheelset? 2023 Hypers?

[@bowieo_0798]

Honest review, frustrations and all. It has the potential to be a great groupset. The advantage of being a big company with decades of experience is it becomes easier to release products having been based on previous models. Its harder for newer companies to develop a new product, even by reverse engineering. As in this case, some testing os left for the consumers. Fortunately they are responsive to criticism. As for the rotor hitting the caliper, I've had that issue with Avid bb7 and Shimano centerlock. In my case it was the arm on the brake pad hitting the rotor carrier. The carrier is wider than the rotor, which can hit some brake calipers. Happy Holidays!

[@ChinaCycling]

Thanks for the input! The bike industry is pretty crazy in terms of intercompatibility. Lets see what comes of this!

[@agustinburgos8074]

did you tried to bleed it without the calipers bolted to the frame? try to bleed them without the bolts and move the caliper around while pushing the fluid, some shimano models need to do that to get all the bubbles out even if it looks like there is no air, sometimes you move it and you see a big bubble that was stuck on the caliper. Let me know

[@JohnSmith-ee7gf]

Do groupsets no longer include chainset, cassette and chain?

[@Unhappywithcongress]

After watching all the videos on Ltwoo I decided to buy the ERX version. Unfortunately I'm having issues that have never been reported. I can't get the FD to shift to the small cog and the app dosen't allow me to select single click shift or gear protection. The worse part is I can't get any support from Ltwoo. Any chace you can share your contact info?

[@larisonjohnson]

Joe, awesome video! Hope you had a great Christmas! Did the grub screw adjustment correct the sticking shift lever? It appeared to add some space between the brake and shift and shift levers.

[@lejendpolevault5345]

How would one go about purchasing a serk frameset? Went on the website and smashed the net but no indication of how to purchase.

[@Jinedan]

It looks like the brake lever adjustment also fixed the shift-lever interference issue?

[@ChinaCycling]

Nope, that clip is mis-leading. Adjusting the grub screw moved the brake lever from it's 'home' position, but after you give it a squeeze, it goes back 'home'

[@mullrump2]

Looks like the brake lever adjustment may have sorted out the inner gear paddle from fowling/not returning?

[@ChinaCycling]

Nope, that clip is mis-leading. Adjusting the grub screw moved the brake lever from it's 'home' position, but after you give it a squeeze, it goes back 'home'

[@youtube_chose_word_for_you]

they should release the rim brake version first

[@hkchew03]

Rim brake version has been out there for years...

[@neilmcgurk2227]

I believe that was released some time ago

[@youtube_chose_word_for_you]

@@hkchew03 I mean with the update. the old one have bad placement for the gear down clutch

[@hkchew03]

@@youtube_chose_word_for_you that doesn't solve or even related to the main issues that is in this video, which is the hydraulic itself and the shifting lever blade.

[@marcofoa5042]

how about the second problem you had ? that is the gear lever getting stuck and stopping the small gear lever to operate.. is that problem gone away after you adjusted the brake lever?

[@Hammer2106]

Hi ChinaCycling, Do you have direct contact with Ltwoo to purchase the 2x12 group or does it only work through Ali and Co.? Best regards

[@ChinaCycling]

I'll start selling it when. I think it's reliable

[@romanelsnerio]

Are the shifters compatible with shimano derailleurs? That would be awesome! I am using a GR9 groupset already on one bike. The shifters are good. The derailleur is unfortunately still the weak point.

[@DnDMF]

Did the reach adjustment also fixed the shifter jamming on the brake lever? From the video it looks like the distance between them is increased. Also, from the video it looks like the adjustment screw was fully undone in the beginning because there is a lot of right-left play in the brake lever. Same happens with Shimano. It could also be the reason behind the bleeding problem. I noticed a similar situation when bleeding Shimano mtb brake.

[@ChinaCycling]

Nope, that clip is mis-leading. Adjusting the grub screw moved the brake lever from it's 'home' position, but after you give it a squeeze, it goes back 'home'

[@andresnunezcarvallo8404]

Wow dude. This review it´s awsom. But it´s a lite bit frustrasting, because i hoped a better perfomance of this gropuset, but in the other hand, i hope the ltwoo managers know how to fix the details of this groupset . Another part that I would like to see and know is the compatibility of this group with other brands. Hugs from Chile. Nice video!!!!!!

[@ryshort7255]

Joe, how feasible would a video on Serk be? I'm super intrigued and seeing as you're both China-based....

[@ChinaCycling]

For sure a dedicated video on the SERK is coming. I could make a 1hr video on all their history too. Very interesting group of people.

[@ryshort7255]

@@ChinaCycling Only 1hr? you gotta pump those numbers up, those are rookie numbers.

[@kylebushue]

i noticed the shifters hanging up on the rubber tab on the brake lever as well. I hadn't run the brake lines and assumed it was from the brake levers not returning with air in them. Did adjusting the lever throw fix the shifters from hanging for you? The other issue i had was the rubber hood would pinch the thumb shifter stopping it from releasing. I trimmed the rubber so there slot was larger and thumb shifter would release properly. Have a big issue with a frame which has delayed using the ltwoo hydro sets.

[@ChinaCycling]

I haven't had the issue with the rubber hood interfering (yet) Also the adjusting didn't fix the shifters hanging, that clip is mis-leading. Adjusting the grub screw moved the brake lever from it's 'home' position, but after you give it a squeeze, it goes back 'home'

[@CarsandBikes]

I had the same problem with my Juin brake caliper and rotors rubbing

[@tomaldous5641]

Likewise. The gap is small between the pads so if the mounts aren't faced properly then there'll be rubbing. Currently mine are on a bike with perfectly faced mounts so there's no rubbing and they perform awesomely.

[@basedgodstrugglin]

Stay safe out there homie, really looking forward to what their updates fix and I wonder how it’ll be getting a replacement bit once their supply gets better

[@mengmao5033]

It's weird that it matters what position the preload is in, in terms of whether you can get enough volume displaced out of the system to push the pistons sufficiently. I guess it could be that the bleed procedure simply can't add more fluid downstream of whatever adjustment the preload is doing? Still weirds me out.

[@jeanmorali4190]

Do you Know if the shifter are compatible With 105 transmission and hydraulique caliper ?

[@MrBillboeing]

Merry Christmas Joe !

[@ChinaCycling]

Same to you! Hope Santa bought you what you wanted.

[@MrBillboeing]

I wish for a SERK , one day Santa will bring me one 🤞🏼

[@cremicilafenice1315]

Im saving up to buy this groupset right now, it might take weeks or months but as of now for those who bought it. how does it perform after months of use?

[@Technotranceism]

When the first rotor was nipping the caliper, was the proper spacer provided used?

[@ChinaCycling]

As far as I know, yes. If you look at the photo I put in, that spacer says 140/160 and it was a 140 rotor. If it was in "160" orientation, that would have put it further away, not closer.

[@nicokilla11]

Thanks China cycling once again. I bought my 11 speed LT WOO groupset for 400 CAD and have been waiting for 1 month now on AliExpress (seller hasn't shipped). Checking the prices they were now at 540~ for the same groupset. Prices through the roof! Hope they stabilize prices in the future.

[@ChinaCycling]

Prices will get better... ironically every video I make will push the price up. 🤣

[@goldenretriever6261]

I'm in Canada too. Did you get it yet? I might wait for the Sensah version if not.

[@nicokilla11]

@@goldenretriever6261 my original order got cancelled as the seller never sent out the goods, so I found another seller that was a bit more expensive but was shipped out right away.

[@goldenretriever6261]

@@nicokilla11 thanks for the update

[@RICHARD.WRIGHT1]

Nice to see SOMETHING SPECIAL.....Yes Titanium is Special! The L-TWOO is I guess a "you get what you pay for" kinda groupset!

[@jakou31]

is the screw set the Reach of the lever or the piston pre load ? I'm waiting Sensah response for hydraulic road disc brake because i hate this Campagnolo style motion from Ltwo ...

[@DG-tf9rp]

Did the reach adjustment also fix the Right shifter problem? Looks like it gave clearance from the lever.

[@ChinaCycling]

Nope, that clip is mis-leading. Adjusting the grub screw moved the brake lever from it's 'home' position, but after you give it a squeeze, it goes back 'home'

[@morrisizing]

Will they up-date the 12 & 11spd mechanical shifters with the lever improvements to allow gear changes in the drops & stop the lever rattle?

[@DoNuT_1985]

Appreciate the honesty in your opinions on the groupset. ~300€ plus pads is not much, so you can forgive these little issues, especially since the brake problems were just a matter adjustment (what did the manual say about it?). Stuck shifters seem a bit annyoing but I guess one bad shift every once in a while is worth the money. On the long run, it's better that they already got 99% of a highend groupset right and only need to fix a few minor design flaws, Shimano/SRAM/Campagnolo had decades to figure this out.

[@jason200912]

300 is how much a medium end used bike costs. Expect used bikes to be 30% of whatever their MSRP is.