Sorcery Spells Tier List (PVP) Elden Ring

[@Chrightt]

Honorable mention: Law of Regression (an incantation with high intelligence requirement) + Frenzied Flame Seal (0 weight) is a swap for many sorcerers to remove the buffs of those who pops like 5+ buffs before duels.

[@AshenDust_]

Wow very cool change

[@kaimacdonald3006]

wow this change is very interesting and changes my view on the entire sorcery tier list

[@markfidelix]

I wish you did a honorable mention to law of regression with the frenzied flame seal as a way for sorcerers to counter barrier of gold users, especially if they are warriors that dont have much mana

[@mangomoe7347]

Doesn't even have to be frenzied flame, since it doesn't use spell buff you can use a seal you don't meet the requirements for as long as you meet the requirements of the spell

[@zachgunderman2120]

Speaking from experience, LoR will get you severed by almost everyone in duels. Those who will stick around after you use it are the ones that will just continue to put Barrier of Gold back up, draining your FP. I only keep LoR in my back pocket now for the occasional clueless double-seppoopoo guy.

[@Diamon_Boots]

Host: "This tarnished's so predictable, watch it, she's gonna Rock Sling" Me: "Good ol' Rock Sling, nothing beats that!" On a more serious note, back on DS3 I used to run a fun sorcery/crossbow build for PvP that consisted on using slow moving sorceries with good tracking to force the oponent to roll and then cath them with a quick shot from the crossbow. It wasn't great because of my build, but it really let my slow, squishy stealth-mage to do decently in PvP even though it was only ever meant as a PvE build. Since it was so fun to become a bullet hell fight I was thinking about maybe doing something like that for a future Elden Ring PvP build after I finish my gravity mage-knight run. Not sure it'll be super good, but might be fun.

[@monsieurdorgat6864]

Honestly, might be a little okay. I haven't tried that Int-requiring crossbow, but the requirements seem generally low enough to fit it into a variety of builds. I still think the only good time I had with sorceries in DS3 was spamming Farron Flashsword from the luck staff. Main hand Anri's Sword, off-hand Man-Grub's staff for kinda meh damage but mostly a lot of quick range options. Man-Grub staff with Farron Flashsword was kind of unique because the Man-Grub staff is the longest staff and the flashsword extends from the end of it. Splash a little faith just to stack regen with Anri's Sword so that investing more in FP flasks was viable for PvE too. Not a good build - DS3 constantly makes you ask: "Why not just do this on a physical build?" but I digress. It kind of worked sometimes. Not as fun as Havelest lol

[@ravinkrishnan3183]

That might work with collapsing stars actually Collapsing stars -> roll -> crossbow roll catch

[@apprehendedavocado169]

unseen form makes you unable to be locked on and leaves the opponent having to free aim in order to land their hits on you, that has to at least count for something. also glinstone arc is excellent when free aimed, you can bait your enemy into running to the side by spamming swift glintstones or setting up with a shard spiral before catching them with an arc, it’s a very reliable way to pull off a quick 300-ish damage in duels once you’ve mastered it

[@monsieurdorgat6864]

That used to be a lot better when you could chain the arc from other projectiles. Glad to hear the spiral/arc combo might still work, but it's definitely a bit harder to do and the difficulty of doing something that only might hit people for moderate damage would reduce it's tier, since you're putting in more effort for less of a payoff. Ideally, stuff requiring more effort and creativity would have more payoff and reliability, but this is a Fromsoftware game. I think Fromsoft just goes: "Yeah, these things are for PvP. Other things are for fashion." and intentionally keeps things that way.

[@ChaosLemonVIII]

I'll argue Fia's mist is a great spell, not because it's good at applying death blight, but because people freak out when they see it and stay away from it. This allows you to safely retreat into the mist, which also acts like darkness making it VERY difficult for your opponent to see what you're casting.

[@electrum5579]

Exactly, it's not there to kill you, it's there to send a message

[@Jason-..-]

Interesting...

[@danielmontilla1197]

As a dedicated invader, Howitzer of Haima ranks S+ for me. I can't tell you how many times that parabolic shot has blown away entire groups of people from a safe position or killed hosts behind walls and obstacles both in the heat of battle and in ambushes. I simply love it, never go hunting without my Slicer, my Terra and my Cannon.

[@jamesruth100]

That shit NEVER fails to hit overconfident hosts because they think they're safe with high ground advantage only for you to just shoot up and over haha.

[@monsieurdorgat6864]

Can confirm, once invaded some gankers alongside a guy "Glintstone God" - this was pre- 1.05, but he definitely delivered on that name lol

[@travislee4196]

Yeah bro if you unlock the camera and toss that bitch on the ground in front of you right before they get to you they go flying

[@funkymachine]

I think that with Terra magica the mortar is cool, but what is even better is when invasions are somewhere with alot of gravity like the trees in leyendell Massive knockback

[@danielnolan8848]

Cannon is good for knocking people off stuff in invasions, also hitting through walls, floors, and other geometry

[@yeetgrenade7492]

He specifically said this was for duels, not invasions

[@Ironwolf-pm7zs]

I just nuked two people from a tower with it, can confirm.

[@funkymachine]

Rykard rancor is very middling, but I found a great aspect is visual clutter, especially with its brother ancient Death rancor. Bit gimmicky but so are most pvp builds

[@MeowLesty]

if you have some faith investment id use the darkness spell for clutter, its literally a smoke bomb

[@PwnedintheFaceStudio]

I run a build centered on both rykard remembrances, and rykards rankor hides blasphemous blades WA so well its really funny

[@kallmeej9106]

Rykard's Rancor is good for area denial, this let's me cast Rannis dark moon right in my enemies face

[@funkymachine]

@@kallmeej9106 that idea owns

[@Sleeper_6875]

Really appreciate the red boxes to make the video much easier to follow

[@jetpackusa2885]

I run night maidens mist and a couple things I found is 1. Free aiming it is very useful as it doesn’t work like normal most spells that just go out in front of you, so you can either cut someone off and corner them or cast it as someone engages you and have them trade ~400 dmg 2. Idk if this is just my imagination but it feels as if the caster of NMM takes less damage from the spell than enemies 3. The spell “technically” has scaling but it’s not worth it, which can be good or bad depending on your build, a low-mid int build can benefit greatly from this spell Overall for me NMM is a solid b tier if you know how to use it, especially if you know how to combo with the other mist spells

[@hobosorcerer]

I one hundred percent agree, and another point to add: you can have one night maiden's mist projectile travelling in the air while another is on the ground already, or even have two differently-timed projectiles fired for different timings in area control. The first to land will persist for a second or two, before the second one lands & makes the first one vanish.

[@Chrightt]

If anyone has good night maiden's mist usage in duels, please link me. I really do not like the self-area denial aspect of Night Maiden's Mist as I will often weave into the area of my own mist spells.

[@Bathezid]

Thank you for making it easy to tell when new spells are added to the list. I like the format of grouping up the spells by school too.

[@Jeenine]

I enjoyed very much, very good pvp tier list, great vid chright

[@danielmontilla1197]

*Talent recognizing talent*

[@Chrightt]

Very reassuring comment coming from a good PVP player!

[@4444csw]

It makes me feel better knowing pros watch these amazing breakdown videos too lol

[@bonefat21]

Don't sleep on unseen blade. IMO this works best on a pure melee build that either has a couple points to spare for the 12 int requirement, or uses the stargazer heirloom to cast the spell, and then swap off to another talisman. It really messes people up, especially on a fast and/or long weapon. Whips can be particularly entertaining, but a single whip isn't that effective IMO. I have quite a bit of success using this with something like the nightrider glaive, which is long, has a varied moveset, and is decently quick with high poise damage. Spinning strikes is especially hilarious, but if glintstone pebble wasn't strong enough on its own, here you go. I'm sure it would be stupid good on a colossal sword to make the annoying poke spam even more busted (especially with BHS), but I haven't been emotionally damaged enough yet to try it.

[@iota-09]

could probably work very well on the nagakiba.

[@alexgeerts6404]

If you could get the cast down doing the unseen blade on the left hand have a shortish weapon in the right and a spear in the left boom profit. No one expects the poke out of nowhere

[@mohl8526]

Not sure if it's still applicable in elden ring (though it most likely is), but invisibility effects on yourself do have a bit of a use in duels if the person you're up against is using soul-mass style spells like glintstone phalanx, as it dramatically reduces the distance they'll activate from.

[@mdcandronic]

About Rock Sling, the spell is considered "cast" right after the rocks rise from the ground. You do a little fling animation after but that is recovery time not cast time. Getting interrupted after the rocks rise still has them fly to the target, which is the guy is in melee range and just hit you with a sword they will just smash down on him instantly.

[@McGeeMcGeeMcGee-g7w]

I would like a Starlight Ash of War. It would be fun for mage role playing

[@PierreLucSex]

Yes please

[@GetBodiedSon]

I would like to add a note for rock sling-the spell is good for invasions in open fields, as it is low cost, and the center and right rocks have massive range. They have more range than Loretta’s greatbow which is nice since it also casts faster and costs less It also has some utility in the mid range if supported first with an uncharged magic glintblade, or a layered range offense with charged MG -> Rykard’s rancor or other homing spell -> rock sling The spell can also be cast at 45 or 90 degree angles with proper timing, causing the rocks to roll catch by themselves at the proper range

[@Chrightt]

Rock Sling only goes further than Loretta's if you have arrow's reach talisman. It also has one of the slowest projectile speeds, so there really isn't a proper timing at a proper range imo. It's more whether or not your opponent is used to PVP.

[@GetBodiedSon]

Are you certain? I was fairly confident from a number of Limgrave invasions that the LGB arrow disappeared long before the center, but especially rightmost rock, which seems to have no drop off at all

[@Diamon_Boots]

As someone who uses both spells pretty freqeuntly, I can say that Rock Sling CAN reach further, even without the talisman, but it's also a bit weird: Because of the way the rocks actually fall down instead of just disappearing they can get extra range, but this requires some weird aiming that's not really that easy to do, or really anywhere near reliable to actually hit what you want. Maybe the impression of it reaching further is due to the curve the rocks make, meaning they can look like travel quite a bit more distance than the arrow, but in terms of actual reach they only go further with the talisman, some wild trickshots or quite a bit of luck. I love Rock Sling a whole lot, maybe my favorite spell in the game, but it sure is a weird one. I once had it do a full upwards 360º turn and fall on someone's head, still not sure how it happened, and haven't been able to replicate it since.

[@Tackitt]

@@Chrightt When cast from the left hand, op is correct, Rock Sling actually has unlimited range on the middle and right rock. Whatever you can lock onto, they will fly that far. It's apparently a bug, and the left rock represents the normal range.

[@hobosorcerer]

@@Chrightt Rock sling comes out slow, but it has a strangely niche use in melee range: the projectiles emerge & fire even if you are hit during the startup animation, and they have unexpectedly good tracking when directly beside your opponent-- making it an oddly effective spell to win trades with, even if they try to roll after hitting you. Just to add icing on the cake, its delayed hit paired with the long stagger actually allows you to follow up with a melee attack or two, and gives you even better trade potential.

[@markd9318]

My favorite combo is moonblade to bait a dodge into me then I bonk em on the head with the gavel. Before the patch the chain cast would do the slower 2nd animation for the hammer. Now it does the faster 1st move. Only thing that got improved by the patch

[@tcw3807]

Really helpful video, thanks chrightt. I'm a coop player, mainly habitat in Elphael, an infamous map for its advantages towards invaders. Just sharing some of my views from a sun bro/blue perspective. Night maiden's mist is probably the best area denial spell. It fumes invaders out of their comfort zones, say it a narrow bridge or behind a wall. Even in a melee fight with 5 mobs and two invaders, it creates an advantageous environment for the team, since the mist does no harm to your teammates. Night comet is S tier. Burst damage is much needed, or the wounded invaders will just hide behind the mobs. Although it is fairly easy to dodge, you will land at least one or two hits in an invasion, as long as you know when and how to cast it. It either kills the invader, or at least 2 flasks down. Stars of Ruins isn't as good as in a duel setting. During the majority of an invasion invaders hang out from a safe distance. When they rush in for the kill SoR doesn't have the damage to burst the invaders down. The best scenario using SoR is when the invaders are running away from a failed assassination attempt, in which case Collapsing Stars is a better spell. Magma spells are ranked higher, A to B tier. Many experienced invaders run with Barrier of Gold, which is a middle finger from Fromsoft to all the mages. Magma spells would surprise them. Also bonus point, many of the mobs at Elphael are weak to fire

[@captainenot3185]

Aww man, you are so awesome. I have just started a mage build and immediately you give me this! Thank you so much for the guide!!! Ez like for you.

[@TRIC4pitator]

I'm soo waiting for an in depth hammer video , the staff of the allknowing is surprisingly strong , and i'm interested in how to optimize it

[@yllifazlija1811]

Thops' Barrier is actually really useful to counter Elden Stars from the elden beast. Worth equipping for this fight. EDIT : Sorry i read the title wrong, thought this was for PvE.

[@monsieurdorgat6864]

Yeah, for PvE this list actually gets pretty interesting! Now that chain casting is dead, spellcasters are mostly just for PvE and ganking now, kind of like for DS3 (with a couple notable exceptions, again like DS3). I think the only spells I bother using for PvP are the buff incantations that give you crazy damage negation, but that's a splash build so my current main is 40 Dex and 32 faith, with the rest into Vigor and Endurance for tank and poise.

[@alpacaofthemountain8760]

Just getting into PvP, great video. Love Carian slicer, it’s a shredder. Piercer is also good if the enemy is using a fast weapon

[@Bowsarge]

I love founding rain of stars and terra magica. Great way to control a small area in random invasions.

[@ianfischer1678]

Zamer ice storm is good in invasion because you can run away and lure the enemy in and it stun locks them if hit and does decent damage

[@mysterythin]

New Chrightt video…. LETS GOOO

[@IanImperial19]

Hopping for the incantations one!

[@25thCriticOfAnime]

This is for PvE, but I found the night sorceries really useful against Godfrey, as hitting him with them during phase one doesn't aggro him, so you can get through phase one before he even reaches you.

[@GetBodiedSon]

Will be very interested to see your take on incants

[@Chrightt]

Incantations atm is mostly rocks... and fire... and more rocks for duels at least (if you know what I mean 😂). Invasion-wise all the AoEs can be used decently with a good timing.

[@GetBodiedSon]

@@Chrightt Yeah you're right, I guess there really aren't a lot of functionally unique incants

[@lukatosic09]

@@Chrightt lightning is still good. Spear and the slam down ones since they have hyper armor

[@equilibrium5280]

Dragon Communion and blood flame arcane incants are the only crazy powerful ones left after recent patch...

[@GetBodiedSon]

@@equilibrium5280 Triple rings is pretty good

[@0ceanking]

I'm glad to learn that the night sorceries can't be spell parried or beaten by eternal darkness! Just another reason to swap out the comets for night comet instead :)

[@technologicalwaste7612]

"If you use a shield in PVP, it's more likely you're are just going to get severed anyway." -- Sometimes I summon them just to sever them.

[@_g_h_]

haven't seen people using it enough to have a great sample size yet, but a few times the delayed hits of an opposing rykard's rancor have seemingly become completely desynced from the visual effects. not quite as frustrating as wave of gold, but it was pretty damn good area denial when it happened

[@AceAviations2]

Clayman's Harpoon + Scholar's Armament is a great combination, it does limit some options, HOWEVER it allows you to use Ashes of War on an Intelligence build that you normally wouldn't be able to use like Blood Tax (Healing if it hits), Spectral Lance or Flame of the Redmanes (PvE) due to them not being compatible with the Magic of Cold Affinities/Infusion. Though FoR could be used to rest Frost (Rani's Dark Moon, Adula's Moonblade), not that you'd be able to do it reliably in PvP.

[@Chrightt]

That's the thing. Once you understand the Weapon Art calculations you'll realize the *infusion* themselves matter a lot. (i.e. you can have a 20 strength with flame of redmanes on fire infusion do more damage than default clayman with 20 strength 80 intelligence AND scholar's armament). The main selling point of scholar's armament is mostly just a stronger poke and not a more diverse weapon art because the weapon art would scale like garbage.

[@connorh1060]

If either of you see this, I love scholars armament on my clayman’s harpoon but I’m coming to realize that at higher levels maybe a magic ash of war would be preferable. Which ones are best for PvP/pve with this setup?

[@Space_Australian]

The only saving grace for Glintstone Icecrag is that(I think) it does a bit more posture damage than most other glintstone spells.

[@timothycain8639]

I have found night maidens mist to be very effective in duels I'd rank it alteast B tier. Firstly I use it in conjuction with spells like night comet. Often enemies confuse the two and roll into the mist while free aimed. This can easily lead to them taking 200-300ish dmg just from a short dip in the mist. Combining this with spells like Gavel and phalanx I often have success in forcing people to roll back through the mist to avoid my other damage sources. As for the Gavel itself I'd also rank it a sold B tier. I run off hand azurs and radagons icon and usually use it to trade with slow start up ashes or attacks, high end lag attacks and jump attacks (very good for punishing jump attack spam.) The explosion can knock people out of the air for long face plant animations. The dmg I do with it at 80 Int or in Terra magica is usually way more than I take from whatever my opponent does and often I can follow up with a spinning weapon or carian piercer punish quite successfully for people who don't make distance on wake up quickly enough.

[@berendmuller1794]

i just hope the DLCs or future patches bring back proper chain casting in some way.

[@unusualthoughts2658]

I can give my input as a solo mage Fia's mist is actually better than freezing mist if you run level 250 duels and so you have 80/80 for that prince of death staff damage I asked a friend to completely ignore my freezing mist and that worked out really well for him against me Once he gets frostbitten, freezing mist does pretty much nothing and he's free to ignore it even more. People is just afraid of it. Fia's mist cannot be ignored, lasts about the same and is very obscuring. As for explosive ghostflame, you definitely need a bit of that damn poise to make it work, but it is excellent to make people eat a 900 damage bomba for trying to bumrush you, with added carpet fire. That and i used it with fia's mist so they think I'm just casting it again. Zamor ice storm doesn't do as well but unlike ghostflame, it doesn't expire as soon as you're done casting and it is a continuous hitbox they need to get away from.

[@Chrightt]

First up, this is 250 duels which is already off by a lot because you can overload on damage. If your friend is ignoring freezing mist and got frostbitten, you have to keep in mind the cold status effect allows you to do 20% extra damage on your friend. This effect is significant but hard to tell it came from the mist. Fia's mist does not scale to Prince of Death Staff. The thing about Freezing Mist is it is very easy to complement it with other frost sorceries or cold weapon unlike Fia's mist where you're hard pressed to find a source of deathblight that is half as consistent as stuff like Adula's or a poke cold weapon. I have yet to have to get away from Zamor because they kind of die when they cast it. I actually had to go read MVs to confirm its damage because across the multiple people trying to cast Zamor, I've not even gotten hit by a single tick. Because it also has 0 hyper armor, you can literally hit them out of Zamor before it even starts or just stay at a range and poke them down while they're locked into place. Because Zamor's active frames are longer than Ghostflame's you're actually stuck in place for longer, so I don't find the linger hitbox enough to push it to D. For me, they're both unusable spells.

[@idontknown12321]

Could you do a tier list for best int melee weapons in general?

[@TacoBurgalur]

These analysis videos are like crack for me.

[@mythrilturtle]

Very nice tier list! I really appreciate the clarity of the lens you are looking at the spells through as well! I would like to throw a little love to explosive ghostflame for its high poise damage though. Granted my experience using it is in level 400+ invader vs. host fights, not proper duels. With enough experience, players can predict enemy charges, making explosive ghostflame a potentially useful defensive mixup, in the vein of wrath of gold. And the fire extensions can do minor damage through s, and I have even seen them hit bloodhound steppers. Especially considering your level 125 -150 lens, this spell is still very punishable, and it may just have felt like a decent meme to sorcery wrath of gold someone but I think it deserves a spot in D tier above the complete garbage dump.

[@xuanathan]

I still think Briars of Sin is alright, mostly in invasions. It has the same appeal as Hoarah Loux's earthshaker but a lot stronger and can kill ganks very easily. With chain casting its not the B tier spell I would have put it as, but I think C or D at least is fitting, its hard to hit but it usually just results in a kill due to it catching panic rolls and having deceptively good range.

[@johnnylee782]

You did really good work here I like how you sorter the spells in groups on the tier list, makes it much more easier to take it all in. BTW it's really a shame about the nerfed blood sorcery with the right setup you could do easily 1500dmg with brias of sin, it was my favorite build. Now it's just unpractical and the start up takes to long

[@Galaka100]

I relied on stars of ruin throughout my first playthrough. Overpowered spell at range against bosses.

[@artemagarkovdwemerion4644]

Will you make tge same thing for incantations? I bet it would be interesting and useful, like all of your content

[@Chrightt]

Yeah, I did sorceries first because I'm more familiar with them.

[@query8265]

i like the tier list idea will there be one for incantations too? :)

[@Chrightt]

Yep, I'll get to incantations.

[@eegah412]

Would love to hear your take on Incantations! Tier list?

[@alexnewsome24]

When are we getting an update for the current state of things with the new sorceries 😊

[@Chrightt]

I think I'll give them at least 1 patch to tweak and then move to tier lists on the spells.

[@LianleoC]

Does this latest patch count?​@@Chrightt

[@gnperdue]

Great work as always. Man… I really hope they bring back chain casting somehow. I get that it was a bug and they were fixing bugs and all, but sometimes mistakes have a beautiful serendipity to them. They should bring back chain casting in a more deliberate way, although for the purposes of this video, it would force you to remake the video, LOL.

[@Buckeye_Bill]

I would love a video talking about what weapons, ashes or spells deal the most poise damage.

[@lemon__snicker5973]

"Passive stick" cracked me up.

[@metafomus]

Hi, will there be a similar guide about incantations?

[@Chrightt]

yes!

[@robertspeedwagon982]

15:30 Gavel of Haima is still great for punishing or after poise breaking your ennemy's poise. The damage on it is still crazy (Carian Slicer can also be used to finish off a target after the big bonk)

[@itzsanchez93]

Hey bro when the incantation tier list. I liked this video by the way. Very well done dude

[@trueadrn]

Thank you!

[@Chrightt]

You're welcome!

[@MeowLesty]

Man i wish the briar sorceries were better, my bloodmage build is not complete without them...

[@ShahriyarAlam1]

You can still chain cast shard spiral with comet btw

[@spookyjohn6543]

Will you ever do one of those for incantantions?

[@Chrightt]

Yeah, newest build is an incantation build, so slowly moving there.

[@AnarchyIsLove]

I would bump Great Oracular Bubble up to B (bubble tier), you can cast it at the ground and it has good AoE, so if someone tries to close the distance on you, they will probably get hit. It's a wonderful roll catch too, and costs barely any FP for its damage.

[@Chrightt]

Too slow for it to rank B in PVP imo. No idea how you roll catch with this consistently.

[@AnarchyIsLove]

@@Chrightt mostly when they roll toward you, people often roll for it too early. I cast Magic Glintblade to distract and force rolls, and switch up how long I charge the bubble a lot. I like to catch people with Oracle Bubbles too but I won't defend that spell lol. I pvp mostly at rl90 though, so at top tier pvp you're probably spot on

[@Felicificity]

Another benefit (if you could call it that) of Star Shower over Stars of Ruin is the fact that it actually does poise damage. It’s honestly way worse than SoR to deal with because it often can’t be punished effectively, and being stunned by one of the earlier stars can force you to take additional hits.

[@Chrightt]

They actually do the same amount of total poise damage. Stars of ruin is 12 shots with 5 poise damage each while Star shower is 6 shots with 10 poise damage each! You can check my super spell guide in my dual wield staff video or on my discord.

[@phillipmbise23]

Awe yeah 🔥🥇🥳

[@nyesExpress]

Even after the removal of chaincasting, I would rank Comet as B tier. I frequently hit aggressive opponents by firing 3 comets back-to-back at close range.

[@rubentorres8433]

Great list. I disagree with u on some (ice storm is devastating when timed well) but I don't think anybody disagrees with your S tier line up

[@drewster-vh8su]

Can you do a new list with the DLC spells?

[@SneakybeakyScrub]

idk the parry version of thops barrier cant deal with stars of ruin

[@Chrightt]

I would not suggest using the spell version against Stars either. The main point is the spell version comes out at a way slower frame and not really a reactive tool. Watch my latest mage build to learn timing to fully dodge stars of ruin.

[@wizardswine]

I honestly do think glintstone arc is a C tier spell, as you say it is not hard to roll, but I do really think it's solid when free aimed. But ig it IS much weaker since chain casting got removed. I just think it's possible to spam them in such as way as to catch rolls during recovery, since even good players with roll into one every so often.

[@BeanstalkBabe]

Cash money as always. God bless your hard work.

[@p.j.obrien7034]

Does Honed bolt still comb with beastil sling? I'm try it but to no avail

[@jeftecoutinho]

I wish the Oracle Bubbles spell was more like the Envoy's Longhorn version.

[@retrovertigov]

I have a question... Why isn't the regular Glintblade Phalanx sorcery on A tier? I think it is a similar case of [Stars of Ruin vs Star Shower], where the latter has still enough projectiles to be effective and is also more FP efficient. The AoW version costs only 10 FP too, although it only has 4 swords. But if the goal of this type of spell is deterrence, passiveness and forcing a roll, isn't those two variants just as competent as Carian Phalanx?

[@Chrightt]

It's because of the level of deterrence. For the same amount of "time" you're getting less damage potential around you. If enemy fails to dodge (which will still happen) you're getting more damage out of the one with 9 glintblade. This is especially better when you learn how to purposely turn your character so not all 9 glintblades just pop away at the same time. Let's say I let 5/9 of the glintblades fly off. My deterrence is still at 4/9 blades versus the same turn on the regular phalanx of 2/5 blades. There is also a difference in poise damage, the enemy can more easily ignore 2 blades (20 poise damage) vs 4 blades (40 poise damage). Star Shower VS Stars of ruin has the exact same poise damage across 6 vs 12 projectiles whereas the glintblades are 50 total poise damage versus 90. The "time" component matters more for glintblades because its 1 time frame to cast them to "carry" around X amount of damage/poise damage. Star spells, on the other hand, will be answered in the same manner except you would add one extra roll at the end of stars of ruin to full dodge the spell. Think about it this way, you're getting chip damage from both of these pairs. The chip damage on phalanx is a larger deterrence because you won't be comparing 1 blade hit vs 1 blade hit but rather something like 2 vs 4 or 5 vs 9 since they're sent off by the angle of your character.On the other hand, a mistimed dodge will let 1-2 star of ruin projectile hit you vs 1 star shower (of the same mistimed timing). 1x star shower projectile vs 1x star of ruin projectile star shower wins out whereas 1x star shower projectile vs 2x star of ruin projectile they would do the same poise damage but stars of ruin will do slightly more damage. Stars of ruin's total animation time is longer than star shower, but phalanx are both casted together with the same time frame. This is why the star spells end up on the same tier and the phalanxes don't. Hope that was a clear enough explanation. If not, try finding me on my discord so I can go more in detail.

[@retrovertigov]

@@Chrightt I couldn't get a better explanation! Now I clearly understand how the phalanxes work. Thank you so much for the time you put into these videos and replies. I hope your channel keeps growing along with your knowledge and dedication to the game!

[@Chrightt]

@@retrovertigov :) np, my pleasure.

[@macandcheeseofficial]

Eternal darkness is amazing against stars of ruin, and rancor-type spells, and elden stars

[@acx2035]

I personally think endless darkness is A tier. While it may be limiting in its ability to protect, casting it and sitting under it while an opponent spams stars of ruin forces them to rethink their strategy. I find it to be more of a mental mindgame than something that will save you but nevertheless very valuable.

[@Brown95P]

So what's the main ranged damage dealer for sorcerers in a duel, especially now that stars of ruin got rightfully nerfed? Star shower?

[@Silvermeow]

Where is your incantations vid

[@Chrightt]

it's coming. I'll be making it soon.

[@myespetfroge5624]

Im new to the game and i would like to know if it would be a good strategy for pvp to use carian phalanx / glintblade phalanx AoW to make my opponent roll then catch them with glinstone pebble AoW

[@Chrightt]

Its hard to roll catch with pebble from phalanx because they'll be inclined to just keep rolling and pebble has few active frames to catch.

[@palahbutoh]

I think Gavel of Haima should be B tier at least. Though it’s hard to catch people off guard, it’s an amazing trading tool. On a proper build, it can crank out 700-800 damage, winning you trades against even guts greatsword. Also excellent breaking the opponent’s morale seeing a mage poise through your giant swords. They usually retreat after getting pancaked, giving me space to cast my ranged spells

[@Chrightt]

Yes, but this works much less well against experienced players without chain casting now. There is even enough time to poke => dodge => poke Gavel of Haima with most weapon classes assuming you and your opponent attacked around the same time.

[@GetBodiedSon]

Gavel of Haima is actually one of the few sorceries that is faster without chaining into it It benefitted a lot from not being able to be chain cast, as things like slicer -> gavel now results in gavel coming out much faster

[@palahbutoh]

I see. Does max cast speed with Azur staff and Radagon icon still makes it slower than poke -> dodge -> poke? That’s the setup I’m using and it’s decently fast

[@Chrightt]

By definition, chain casting removes the startup animation of the spell you chain cast into. Gavel of Haima's frames remained the same after 1.05, so you are definitely slower without the chain cast (when not including the frames of the spell prior). Example: pre 1.05: swift glintstone shard => Gavel of Haima (starts from swing portion rather than summon hammer portion). NOTHING benefits from not being able to chain cast because chain casting can only benefit the spell since you can always cast without chain cast normally even when chain casting is available. Having max cast speed makes it a lot harder to get poke -> dodge -> poked, but if your enemy knows that you have fast cast speed (from other spells before haima or sees your azur's staff) they can dodge into your gavel and then poke you instead of doing 2 pokes as cast speed only affects the starting animation and not the recovery.

[@GetBodiedSon]

@@Chrightt I understand that chain casting typically replaces the normal startup with an animation that is different to the initial cast animation, and that animation is typically faster This is easy to see with something like carian slicer or catch flame But it is not always the case that the animation that replaces your initial cast has faster startup. This is easiest to observe with bestial sling, which is far faster on the initial cast (at max vdex) than if you chain cast. I imagine this is for balance purposes In the specific case of Gavel of Haima, (unless something has changed in the last patch) the chain casting animation that replaces the startup of the initial cast is definitively slower and more telegraphed than if you were to cast GoH with its original casting animation at high-to-max vdex. It is in the same category of chain casting as bestial sling in this regard. If the chain cast and initial cast were the same animation and the gavel just began later in the swing, then yes, that would be faster. But the chain cast is a different animation than what you get if you just cast GoH one time, and completes later than an initial cast does. I would highly encourage you to test for yourself and measure the startup frames of a chain cast vs an initial casting of GoH at max vdex It is possible that I am incorrect about this, but I have played a lot with Gavel of Haima and these observations are based on hundreds of hours of experience. I unfortunately have no way to measure startup frames myself, but you are the maestro of that stuff, so if you do test, I will happily defer to your own conclusion on the topic

[@zawarudo8991]

I wish we could use spell buffs on infused weapons like in ds2. Would it be overkill? Maybe. But it looks cool and adds more variety. We already have the option to stockpile buffs and become blenders, one more won‘t hurt. I‘m just sick of body buffs ngl. Maybe add it at the same time damage is fixed, since pvp damage is gonna need some fixing in general soon.

[@АлексейСонных]

Are SoR any good after nerf?

[@Chrightt]

No.

[@Vash141]

Dave wake up! New Crightt video just dropped

[@foresttaylor7850]

Why no incantation tier list?

[@neoHeret1c]

fias mist is a great area control...

[@colorpg152]

after patch 1,06 where does sor goes

[@Chrightt]

very low. Just use star shower.

[@colorpg152]

@@Chrightt yeah they should have nerfed the damage, cost or cast time not the tracking now its useless

[@travislee4196]

While I agree with the list generally, there are a few d and c tier spells on this list I use to dominate people in pvp more often than not

[@Chrightt]

Yes, but I can use Carian Graudeur in PVP and still win. It does not mean the spell is good. It is more likely that the random you fought at academy wasn't optimizing a build but playing a fun one instead.

[@travislee4196]

@@Chrightt I completely agree. I find the best part of using magic in Elden Ring for pvp is thinking outside of the box. Not only is it fun, people are getting used to certain overused spells. Busting them with some new shit catches them off guard and when it works it's histerical. Love the video bro i aint arguing lol

[@travislee4196]

@@Chrightt for example, Freezing mist gives you the opportunity to use Terra Magicka in the middle of a duel, cast stars of ruin, then star shower, and then cast a canon of haima at them. Most and cannon on their own, I agree. In tandem, S tier imo

[@migimonster8D]

are you going to remake this?

[@Chrightt]

Likely after next patch as files seem to suggest the potential of a DLC.

[@migimonster8D]

@@Chrightt Love it! Cant wait to watch the talisman video!

[@RazorusR3X777]

Thorn sorceries would be good if there were, I don't know, more than fucking two. I hate how undercooked they are.

[@user-uf7qf7mv6k]

There's so many "schools" of incantations and sorceries that suffer so much from there being so few spells in their class. Two thorn incantations/sorceries, two bubble sorceries, three magma sorceries, two stonedigger sorceries, etc.

[@MeowLesty]

They could have done so much with thorn sorceries, and yes they are absolute garbage especially after the chaincast nerf but god they look cool. Still... why tf am i paying HP AND FP to do less damage than a glintstone shard?

[@thefreshvince879]

the dlc really needs to add powerstancing magic

[@timothycain8639]

Last comment this isn't really that useful for pvp in most situation but I tested it with a friend of mine. Zamor ice storm reliably knocks away Bombs, crossbow bolts. Arrow, and throwing knives. I'm not joking it really does. It's very niche but it for some reason you casted this spell in a duel you have near total protection from physical projectiles while you cast your next spell.

[@bryannguyen6836]

Can you update for 1.08

[@neoHeret1c]

you make me sleep for an hour...

[@darkphoenix2]

So many techniques and attacks in the PvP of these games is dependent on how fast they are. It's why I hope FromSoftware's next big game is something totally different and new, because I think Elden Ring is the limit. They can't evolve the gameplay much more, Sekiro is already more advanced. Imagine how much better magic could be if we had real free aiming. They could drastically increase cast time and remove the homing that many spells have. Spells like Stone of Gurranq would be so much better in PvP.

[@nyesExpress]

Hidden body is op in invasions tho

[@glinteastwood]

Halfway to the requisite 300 Twitch subs to go. Let’s make some streams happen!

[@burnersforhim]

brother, where is the incantations tier list ?

[@pawnshop_ghost]

Extremely sad that they 86'd chain casting, they just forced magic build back to mostly projectile based gameplay for no reason, except to maybe unbreak some dragon related stuff, not sure, but regardless I feel like there's better ways to go about fixing stuff, just makes me sad tbh

[@blondsucre8179]

Zamor ice storm has no buisness in E. It has a lot of active frames, poise damage and damage.

[@Chrightt]

Wow! Maybe one day someone can hit me with that. The last 10 that tried casting them died before I found out about the damage so I had to check the datamined values and test it myself.

[@blondsucre8179]

@@Chrightt obviously its not above C but imo it should be D or C not E. It's a good way to force oppnents out of your proximity. The others E spells are just so bad

[@Chrightt]

@@blondsucre8179 I actually don't think it forces people out of the proximity, that's the thing. It offers no hyper armor, so even casting shatter earth and slamming it down is more likely to happen than a zamor's ice storm. If anyone attacks you with any weapon, pretty much ALL weapon classes will do enough poise damage before Zamor's first tick unless you have full bullgoat's + bull goat talisman. Even then stuff like UGS poke will 1 hit you out of cast and you would've only locked yourself in place to let him certainly hit you. Even if you just started the storm, they can immediately hit you out ending the storm before you do more than 1 or 2 ticks of damage. Other than that, mages can also just punish you from afar after rolling out of the storm because your active frame + recovery is so long.

[@blondsucre8179]

@@Chrightt it's a 360 chilling mist with poise damage and actual damage, it's not that bad, especially in invasions

[@manafon5398]

The night Sorcery Mist is an A/B tier for invasions though, you can completely cut off a gank squad on a hallway and pick them off while they are separated, it also works to mask what kind of spell you are charging and there's another cheeky upside to the spell, it obliterates people's performance while the spell is on screen, making it very difficult to dodge your next attack, all in all, it's great tool to mix up your enemies off as an invader. Any spell that is worthless in both PVE and PVP I hope gets buffed in the future, I don't mind having spell not be viable in pvp but picking them up and not ever wanting to use them is pretty lame.

[@hobosorcerer]

I haven't seen more than two minutes of this video, but I can't get past the lava spell section without leaving a comment, because as someone with plenty of dueling experience using these spells you are judging some of them in the strangest ways. Firstly, you make absolutely no distinctions between magma shot, gelmir's fury and roiling magma. Roiling magma functions just fine as a high poise damage area denial option- which sorcerers lack- so I'd probably have it around C despite the faith requirements. Gelmir's fury is fine at D, although I think it deserves some special recognition for having lava pools which actually meaningful damage. Magma shot, however, is easily the worst of the three, and deserves nothing worse than F-tier. It has a small explosion that doesn't linger very long or do much damage, and the lava itself does like 10 damage. Secondly, judging these spells in part by judging the gelmir staff is misleading, as the most optimized faith-using sorcery setups go around 60 int with academy glintstone staff, and have their faith be for nothing more than minimum requirements. I'll probably update this comment with more of my opinions on the video as I watch, but I just couldn't hold back the urge here. Edit: Okay, night maiden's mist... you think it's only effective when people blindly run into it? It denies such an immense area more reliably than frozen mist, and can force your opponent to move much more predictably. Not only that, but it's the only mist spell which is tied to an actual projectile, meaning you can delay the activation by having the spell fly in a high arc. This works great when people repeatedly try to strafe stuff like phalanx, magic glintblades, shard spirals, etc-- and should not be so readily dismissed into D-tier imo. Edit 2: Rancor & ancient death are at fair spots, although I'd mention that ancient death deserves its spot not just for the extra skulls & damage, but also the AoE explosions at the end of the travel time/when hitting terrain. Nothing wrong here, I just think it's worth noting. Edit 3: Gavel deserves a B spot imo, because even without chain casting you can cancel out of gavel's end lag fairly early with other spells, and the AoE lingers long enough to make free aiming a viable roll catch option. There isn't a better hyper armor spell for casters right now. Edit 4: I know we're still talking about duels, but arc couldn't even break into C? Forcing your opponent to roll when they'd cover more distance strafing your other setup spells is what makes arc so effective at controlling player movement- even if it's somewhat slower. That, and a good free aim can roll catch fairly reliably depending on the angle, since the arc's hitbox lingers rather wide over an area as it travels. Looking at the hitbox visualizations might give a clearer idea. Edit 5: I'm not sure exactly how much you've used ambush shard, but are you aware of how jank the tracking can be? The extreme inconsistency in projectile placement & pathing would give it a C-tier spot in my eyes, especially on top of the fact that it doesn't function as a night sorcery. Overall fine video, although I can't help shake some of my disagreements, and I feel the need to point out one last thing: I'd prefer From buffs at least some of the less-effective spells instead of having DLC simply replace them.

[@Chrightt]

I have to disagree with some points here. Area denial of roiling magma is basically a mist with a longer startup imo for a bit less radius assuming you aim the mist. Magma shot for me is more comparable to Cannon of Haima with a small pool of lava. I do think its slightly worse than Roiling Magma, but not F tiered because #1 it costs less FP and faith requirement. #2 Roiling Magma has the delay before the AoE. Yes, it is area control, but its slow. Magma shot directly explodes into a puddle of magma that can "splash" and catch your enemies for chip damage. Overall, I think they're equally crap at D tier. For me, Magma shot was the thing that wasn't bad enough to become F tier and Roiling Magma was the thing not good enough to be a C. Wasn't trying to mislead at all with the staff. In fact, that was what I was trying to point out. I'm simply showing if you're going int/faith it's not a great setup to run magma sorcery anyway. The best setup is using an int staff (which is why I mentioned regal) BUT you need extra points in faith so remind yourself that's the cost. Night Maidens Mist I have personally tested this one extensively as I was comparing this with freezing mist for my nightwielder's PVP build. The fact that it reduces my own HP when I go through it is the main reason it is rated below freezing mist. While in terms of effectiveness, it definitely works, I lose the option to pass through my own mist without taking damage which is HUGE. For example, I'm in a corridor and I want to suddenly make a move towards my enemy instead of away and roll into the mist, or I want to position myself better to bait enemy near/into the mist in duels. This aspect is huge imo because you're essentially creating something that costs yourself a huge area, so Night Maiden's Mist does not rank highly for me and will not be moved on my tier list at least. I certainly prefer the Freezing Mist in the vast majority of the scenarios. Gavel is explained in another comment. It's slow startup means it is very easy for enemy to trade in a poke and dodge right after. I find it at B when it had the option to chain cast for a faster startup but even then I've gotten caught by that spell exactly once. I've yet to actually get caught by this spell since then as I believe no amount of hyper armor will save you if your enemy is familiar with sorcery as this is a very telegraphed spell. Arc does not break into C tier for me because it has a slower startup and is also jumpable. You can jump glintstone arc consistently unlike sorceries like comet which will still clip you. If you do free-aim arc the arc is very awkward as a horizontal sorcery and can easily go past their head. I've used ambush shard quite a bit. Shielded enemies tend to not strafe left and right and the majority of the enemies you do use ambush shard are shielded enemies. I've actually never casted this one on a non-shielded enemy but I've seen people trying to catch me with this but fail. Beside, in invasions you can also arrow's reach if you want and sneak around with this spell. Definitely janky, but very useful against shield users for me at least (especially the ones that only know how to run forward and shield poke). EDIT: Not sure if you saw it in the other comment, but if you have good Night Maiden's Mist being used in duels please link me the footage. This is definitely my subjective take on sorcery spells, and I definitely have the tendency to lean towards vs more skilled players with more meta setups. I find the self-area denial versus some aggressive enemies especially poor as dodging through mist is often a great way to quickly make distance or punish.

[@hobosorcerer]

@@Chrightt Oh boy, there's plenty to respond to here. To start, you compare roiling magma to mist spells in terms of area denial, but the highlight of roiling magma is that it has high poise damage on the explosion-- something mist spells lack. As for magma shot being compared to cannon of haima... I simply can't see why. Sure they're both aoe projectiles, but magma shots explosion is TINY & doesn't linger nearly as long as cannon's, and the lava pool is pitiful for damage. At best it's a mixup for roiling magma, which is half decent in my experience. In regards to night maiden's mist, the downsides of self area denial are worth the positives over stuff like freezing mist. Freezing mist is useless as area denial once your opponent already procs it, and is not tied to a projectile, making it much less restrictive as to where it can be placed. You can only be defensive with it. Night maiden's, on the other hand, provides a constant threat & can be free aimed as a slow projectile for quite a distance. This allows it to be used more offensively, and allows you to control the timing of the mist's activation very well. I'll see if I can gather some footage of night maiden's mist from my own gameplay, but a lot of my footage is pre-1.05. As for the point about arc being jump-able, that's indeed true, but in my experience with sorcery I've found that nearly every comet-type spell can be reliably jumped, so I feel like this isn't uniquely a problem with arc. I'd be happy to explain my reasonings heremore thoroughly, if you are ever curious.

[@Chrightt]

It will do high poise damage when it ever hits me. To date, that count has remained at 0. In effect, I think of them closer to mist spells because of the area denial. I'm not saying they're the same as mist spells, but they certainly do share the same function of keeping you away from them and punishing you if you don't (if you remember I also said great bubble can be used in the same way at the end of its travel distance - a damage type mist). Magma shot follows the same projectile shot as Cannon of Haima. The explosion is small and pitiful but you can get end chip damage for like 50~100 points of chip damage off end of magma shot lava (not much at all but better than nothing). BUT if you timed Cannon of Haima dodge once correctly, you fully dodge the entire move and don't have to worry about it again. Free aiming both these spells will result in better effect. A bad dodge versus magma shot means your enemy is forced to dodge a second time in quick succession out of the magma shot's puddle. This is contrary to Roiling magma where if you miss the explosion is so slow you can walk (not even sprint) out of the circle with ease (and I expect any sane person to walk out). Freezing Mist just needs to get the cold proc off and you're doing 20% more damage. This cold effect is often overlooked as being part of freezing mist. Now, you no longer need denial because that carian slicer on your hand will outrade his UGS, so let them come. As I said, I find Night Maiden's restrictive because I place greater weight on matches versus better players and rolling through mist or using it is something I do *with my playstyle*. I don't care about aiming Night Maiden's mist far away because the main point I cast a slow mist spell is to cast it somewhere closer to me. Try tossing mist at a PS straight sword user rushing you. He'll never care about the NMS behind him because you'll be too busy running away from his PS jump that staggers in one hit and deals over 700+ damage. Again, I really need footage of NMS duels, especially against players who aren't bumbling around. If you're on PC I wouldn't mind a duel either. Hop onto my discord and we can set it up. As for the arc all I can say is comet type spells have a fatter vertical than arc and can chip enemies much more easily because jumps shift your hurtbox up and don't make you invincible. You can jump them with better timing, but you can mess up arc timing and dodge it even at the end or start of the jump. I'd be happy to continue this debate as I would be really happy I can learn something new I can potentially do with one of these spells that I was never doing. Night Maiden's Mist double setups with parabolic throw sounds interesting, but I'm not sure about the practicality of being able to just chuck 2 of those in succession without my enemy doing anything. Super curious on a vid/duel and thank you for taking your time with your writeup as I definitely enjoy a take from another fellow sorcery/int build main (I presume).

[@hobosorcerer]

@@Chrightt Perhaps such conversion is best left for something better than KZbin lol, but yes I'd absolutely love to go in depth with my experiences using various spells sometime. Cheers, from one sorcerer main to another~

[@MrJunkiy]

Sick

[@oedon94]

RIP Carian Slicer

[@xanastra8820]

We badly need lava and briars spells buffed...

[@Chrightt]

Hope to see more of these small category sorceries in the DLC! :)

[@Matthewcmiel]

I would suggest that, on a build that already has the faith, Rykard's Rancor is easily B tier. However, I get it if the requirements keep it from being B tier, but it is substantially better than any other C spell you have listed.

[@ctyoro5086]

Ayyyy MAGIC