Planescape: Torment Retrospective | A History of Isometric CRPGs (Episode 4)

[@redtsun67]

Bro that part about finding it hard to play an evil protagonist is so true. I almost always play as an evil alignment character, usually neutral or lawful evil, and it seems like every single game I play is geared toward playing as a swordguy hero protagonist. So many "evil" options boil down to either being a complete psychopath, or being a petty asshole in dialogue. I have yet to play a game that lets me roleplay as a compellingly evil person, because all of the good options are extremely rewarding, whereas all the "evil" options simply lock you out of quests or story arcs entirely.

[@alaksandutheexorkizein7634]

This game. I can't explain how important this game was and still is for me. It made me appreciate so much in life and not only games but philosophy, literature, culture and most of all other people. It made me as an angst-ridden 15 years old kid to realise that life is kinda amazing really. And I should appreciate it while it last. What can change the nature of a man? Planescape Torment helped changing this boy into a man.

[@Thagomizer]

Yes. How do you know what true literature is? If you're a different person after you've read/watched/played it. And it was for me, too.

[@mirjamheijn5214]

Funny, I just wanted to be ignus and burn everything. Though looking at what position my family had manouvred me into, that was a pretty sensible perspective.

[@kambion]

Same dude. Wow. Same.

[@Bandoolero]

This comment made me tear up a bit, dammit

[@SteppingWolf]

Cringe, because the armchair philosophy - tier "meaningful" story in this game is 100% overrated.

[@TitaniumAlloyz]

Hey Chris. This video is impeccable. I love your presentation and have listened to all of your videos. You were my first exposure to long form video game retrospectives and analysis 4 years ago, and now it is my absolute favorite type of content, and I just want to thank you. It saddens me a bit that you haven't put out a video in years, but I hope that you're in a great place in life. Thank you for all of your content, if you weren't so pleasant to listen to I would never have been exposed to many of my favorite youtubers. I still come back and listen to your videos again every now and then- out of all the long form video game analyzers like Joseph Anderson and Noah Caldwell-Gervais, you are still my favorite. I hope this comment reaches you well, thanks again for all the content you made.

[@alroth1035]

I think Annah's 'romance' with the Nameless One often overshadows that her torment is not her love but the motivator of it instead, which is isolation. Annah's closest person to her life is Pharod, who in her own words always treated her more like a boss would an underling than a parent would a child. In some way she despised him, even said he'd deserve to rot in the Lower Planes, yet you can see her visibly shocked and moved when she meets Pharod at the Pillar of Skulls. All throughout the story the main dynamic with Annah is that she tries to shove people away but when the situation breaks past her cold facade she shows to be incredibly clingy to the few who she does come in contact in some fashion or other. Her 'love' for the NO comes more as a desire for contact than it does as a mere romantic relationship, and that's what makes her a pretty interesting character as well as one with a more empathetic torment.

[@mikishomeonyoutube2116]

You can also see this in her relationship with Grace. Grace is nothing but nice to Annah and tries several times to reach out to her only to be repeatedly pushed away. Annah here is being dismissive of one of the few people genuenly wanting to connect with her without having an agenda.

[@mirjamheijn5214]

27:54 "I still ended the game as chaotic evil on the alignment chart". So you experienced, much like the first incarnation, that you might have a change of heart, that your nature as a man may be changed, but that you still couldn't outrun the shades and crimes of your past.

[@ngugitwc6380]

Deionarra's Sensory Stone settled PST as one of the best narrative experiences as I've ever had, in one of the best games ever in my book.

[@fafofafin]

The entire Sensorium and Ravel's maze are the peak of the game for me

[@dennycat9895]

When I got to the Fortress of Regrets I still had the brown sphere in my inventory because in Fallout 1 I dropped Vree's holodisk not knowing how important it is so when I looted the brown sphere from Pharod's body I knew it would be useful for something later so I kept it.

[@jansobus7074]

The number of times you die in the game is actually not meaningless - it affects the number of shadows you encounter in the fortress of regrets. After/during your 2nd playthrough you may want to look at Dan Simpson's PST guide, you will probably find a lot of things you missed. It's similar thing with Per's guides for F1 and F2.

[@alexoelkers2292]

Yeah I was reading a post on a forum from a guy who couldn't beat the fortress of regrets because he was only a lvl 13 mage and got swamped by Shadows if he tried to run past them. He died so many times that no matter where he ran he would run into a group of 10 Shadows. I only had a few Shadows, could of easily ran past as they only spawned in groups of 1, not 10.

[@everythingpony]

@@alexoelkers2292 well that seems like an oversight on the developer's part not thinking that someone would die 400 times why would I have to fight 400 of my Shadows at the end of the game

[@fall-from-grace1008]

@@everythingpony well the game is an rpg so your choices and the things you do have consequenses, if you die too much then you will have it harder no matter what, if you die little then you will only have 6 shadows or so at then end. but really, after the first time you play it it gets a lot easier and better since you notice a lot of shit you missed on the first time

[@fuzzydunlop7928]

@@fall-from-grace1008 The point can still be made with a max-cap on the amount of shadows that spawn - compromise without the loss of consequence is often more clever than just consequence.

[@MidnightSt]

you all might be interested in knowing that there's one more effect to dying - the thing Ravel explains about how your immortality works, by deflecting Death and making it take someone else instead of you, is actually coded in the game's script. So each time you die in an area, the game goes around looking for a generic npc and kills it. If it can't find any generic npc to kill, then instead of getting revived, you actually stay dead and get a game over screen. Also, Noah Gervais Caldwell noticed one other cool thing: The Lady of Pain - if you piss her off, she sends you into your maze, yes. BUT, if you piss her off again afterwards, and I'm quoting, "she kills you so hard it bumps you back one save".

[@ThisNameIsBanned]

Story wise this is the gold standard , the 10/10 that no other game ever got to.

[@ColeTrainStudio]

I think Disco Elysium's story and writing is on par or better than Planescape.

[@roberthermann97]

@@ColeTrainStudio It has Disco in its name, therefore that is not possible.

[@snaneychik]

@@roberthermann97 Haven't played PST yet, but this is disco, disco is cool: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mXuYh2aFj8l8kK8

[@eziospaghettiauditore8369]

Exception is Baldur's Gate 2 which has more things going on

[@wejw14]

play Pathologic 2

[@dxBIGBOSSxb]

I believe another part of the reason it flopped was the timing: Consoles like the PS1 and PC helped popularize more action-heavy RPG games whether they were JRPG's like Final Fantasy or ARPG games like Diablo. The stories in those kinds of games were told *to* the player and not played out *by* the player, thus games like Planescape seemed old-hat by comparison. It's really unfair, I know; however most gamers today seemed to have changed their tune or at least grown to appreciate more story-rich experiences as Divinity: Original Sin, Pillars of Eternity and even the Witcher have proven... God, imagine if Planescape hit Witcher-levels of success...

[@Maharani1991]

+

[@LN.2233]

Are you sure consoles popularized Diablo and not PC? Most of Diablo's sales we're on PC, and it released on PS1 two years after PC & Mac. Even compared to other Western RPGs of its time, Planescape was notorious for shitty combat and a story focus and has been even compared to JRPG's because of that.

[@zer00rdie]

Games like this never had a massive audience. Hence why modern RPGs become more dumbed down with each generation {TES)

[@kummakummakummakummakummac8606]

Fallout 1 and 2 didn't sell well either.

[@fuzzydunlop7928]

@@kummakummakummakummakummac8606 You mean comparatively? The way we measure success and the way success was measured back then aren't equivalent.

[@dudeguybro]

I think you got (in a sense) a spiritual successor to this style of game: Disco Elysium. This video came out about a year before its release, so now is your chance, man! I'm playing it now, and wow... it's fantastic. Really curious to see where the studio who made goes with other games in the future.

[@Abon666]

I'm pretty sure the design pitch was written like that to get funding from upper management rather than being reflective of the developers views at the time.

[@Thagomizer]

The story is absolutely devastating. I've played through this game 6 or 7 times, and I don't think there was a single occasion where I made it through the ending with dry eyes. This game is the gold standard for video game writing. I have played a handful of games with writing that is equal to this one, but I have never played a game with writing that is better.

[@alexgd1056]

I guess you will never answer me, but which other games did you play that had writing equal to PS:T?

[@Thagomizer]

@@alexgd1056 Disco Elysium.

[@puzzlemaniak420]

I still think "what can change the nature of a man" answer is not cheesy, that is the whole principle of Sigil basically, will shapes your world there, or destroys it. Thar is also what you learn from Circles of Zerthimon.

[@raifthemad]

About the circle of zerthimon. IIRC, they were made up by a previous incarnation of TNO, in order to get Dak'kon to join his group. Derp, he actually mentions it, should have waited till the end.

[@mattb6616]

@@raifthemad no, he just made a copy in stone of an existing Circle. theyre all real just normally made of chaos matter

[@TwistedScarlett60]

Annah's torment isn't her love for the Nameless One. She's tormented by her inability to form healthy relationships because of a poor upbringing by an abusive step-father that raised her to be a worker. As a result she constantly puts herself in emotionally abusive situations driven by an eternal loneliness. As a result Annah has no one, so she's clinging to people she shouldn't while simultaneously lashing out as a defense mechanism. (See the strange dichotomy of Annah working with the collectors and dustmen, but acting so passionate) I think Annah's torment is most commonly misunderstood because people don't dwell on it beyond the surface, and emotionally abusive relationships, even those among yourself, aren't so obvious. It's easy to write off Annah's love for the Nameless One as a convenience or a trope, but it's another thing to ask 'why' and realize that there's perhaps a lot more subtlety to Annah's character than the mere dialogue can suggest. I think one of the biggest points is Pharrod's death, he doesn't need to die because you can literally never go back and see him again. Yet he does need to die functionally for Annah's development as a character because it leads to this strange situation were Annah decides to stay with you. There's no good reason for her to stay with you, but it's heavily indicative that you're the only thing she has left- a stranger that she met a few days ago and she can't help but cling to that because she's scared of being alone. She'll take *anything* she can get. I can't quite put it into words just how much depth there can be to Annah's character, because it's depth can be as deep as your thoughts at any given time, and I don't think I quite did her character and arc justice, but I hope I shed a little light on why Annah is one of my favourite characters in the game and I'm disappointed that people write her off as the 'weakest' written companion because they simply haven't thought about the implications of the character. In Planescape: Torment, even one of the most undeveloped and unwritten characters has this much complexity behind them. It really is an S-tier RPG.

[@anaveragegamer359]

idk how but l ended up not recruiting annah feels like l missed out on a lot

[@pumareyes1]

None of my gamer friends liked these types of games back them. So I went at it alone. Reading the comments makes me so happy because I can see the emotional connection that this game has with so many people. While I had Baldur's Gate. I never really got in to it. Thought it was difficult for me at the time. I found Planescape: Torment to be Hard and I honestly hated reading. As I clicked through the dialogue, I got pulled into the story and I couldn't stop reading. I even pulled out a dictionary for words that I didn't understand. After I met Dhall, I was hooked. This is the only video game to ever make me cry, I've played hundreds in my life. A tragic story that somehow mimics real life. So happy that it became a cult classic and that it became the benchmark. Thanks for sharing your comments everybody.

[@RevanMartinez]

I dropped the Holodisk too!! Nooo!! How would anyone know without a guide lol

[@sharkdentures3247]

I agree with you that the ending was perfect. I have only seen a few people acknowledge that veering from the 'redemption/forgiveness' standard narrative styling, can be a good thing. A pre-doomed "hero" having to pay for past his past crimes (even if he doesn't remember them anymore) can be SO much more powerful. (I like "happily ever after" endings, just not ALL the time.)

[@AtodaK]

I remember the Deionarra storyline almost breaking my heart when I played this many moons ago. I've forgotten most of the game over time, but those parts stuck with me like few things in computer games.

[@thefalloutwiki]

Same here! :( We still have the scars!

[@Arakhor]

I still think that her theme is the best track in the whole game.

[@fafofafin]

@@Arakhor And the smoldering corpse bar theme

[@secundus6457]

@@Arakhor it is

[@teroril]

"Maybe this was my punishment for going the chaothic evil route." - It's funny, because it's true! (You won't fight Vhailor if you aren't evil).

[@megamike15]

yeah if your good you fight ignus.

[@artur6912]

@@megamike15 And Ignus should be a much easier fight for a mage Nameless One because he doesn't have the high magic resists

[@pervognsen_bitwise]

For what it's worth, the Good Incarnation isn't the original person who asked Ravel for immortality. After merging with the Good Incarnation, you don't suddenly get back the memories of why you asked for immortality. You have to unlock the Bronze Sphere after merging with your past incarnations to regain those memories (which also gives you 2 million XP). If you do, unlike all your other regained memories, you're told _how_ your character responds to them, without you the player being told what those memories actually were, which is the only time in the entire game that happens, pulling back from the second-person omniscient mode for the game's most climactic (and entirely optional) moment. Such a powerful storytelling device.

[@juhapentikainen6970]

It's a real shame how things went for story-driven games, CRPGs and 2D games in general in the late 90s. So many technical limitations had just been overcome in a few years with CD drives becoming commonplace, HDDs having gigabytes of storage, sound cards, high resolution graphics and massive leaps in processing power. Everything was set for great new 2D titles but all the attention was on 3D and especially 3D action. In that environment a game like Torment where the player spends over 90% of their time reading dialogue or browsing menus and the combat is based on D&D rules was certainly a niche product.

[@ciapatyciapacz5354]

Well I guess "walls of text" formula is not for everyone and if combat is so unimportant it makes you wonder does it have to be an isometric RPG in the first place because this formula is not really optimal for story based gameplay, although it's much cheaper than modern interactive movies and in theory allows for much more choice because you don't need all those complicated facial animations or even voice acting. If a modern AAA studio decided to invest their time, money and manpower into a similar project today result could be easily the most complex RPG experience of all time but for now we have indies.

[@JakenTheGreat]

I wish a developer nowadays could master the old style of story telling and branching paths in these old D&D inspired games and flawlessly combine them with the style of 3D games today. Bethesda tried but dumbed it down way too much.

[@Selvyre]

​@@JakenTheGreat Bethesda isn't trying to make those old games adapted to a 3D graphical style, nor has it ever. Their games are more focused around living in their meticulously-detailed worlds and exploring, with emergent gameplay being a big factor in their enjoyment factor: That was not what those old CRPGs were built around. They were built around autonomy in your quests, while Bethesda gives you relatively little because that is not, nor has it ever been, a primary focus of either Elder Scrolls or their 3D Fallout games. The best you've got in that regard is that in their actually written quests (as opposed to the radiant quests they'll sometimes use), you can resolve them in multiple ways, but they're always pre-ordained ways they likely already thought of. What do I see when I play Baldur's Gate? I'm dungeon-delving, and exploration is great and finds me some quests, but ultimately I'm playing in the Forgotten Realms, and so I'm basically playing a DM-created module from the material given, as opposed to a completely unique world I can't find within rulebooks for another game that it's loosely based on, and it's not that faithful of a rendition of 2E, either (especially the gutting they did to Bards, holy tap-dancing Christ). Same for IWD, except with more emphasis on combat (but hey, at least in IWD if I'm playing a Druid I get unique lines for playing a Druid, Baldur's Gate, rather than just being limited to the same dialogue choices anyone can pick, Baldur's Gate). Planescape: Torment wasn't really a module so much as using the setting as a backdrop for their philosophy and character writing. You'll notice that the end goal of all those is not the same as Bethesda's.

[@megamike15]

@@JakenTheGreat the problem is almost all the games trying to be like the older games from this era just don't compare. and the one i think that does the best [ the shadow run games] have the issue of have to much filler descriptive text that is a huge issues with modern crpgs.

[@Jrdotan]

@@megamike15 we have games that follows that focus nowadays like divinity original sin 2, pillars of etternity 2 or wasteland 2. But when i think of a good wrpg that compares to the old games design (even dont being isometric) i think about new vegas.

[@njatlas]

This is the only game I ever called in to work or because I couldn't tear myself away. I played through it twice in a 10 days. It is truly the best of the genre.

[@fall-from-grace1008]

UPDATED MY JOURNAL

[@arcanethink]

You got your wish fulfilled with Disco Elysium.

[@markralf]

​@James Sunderland The heavy story driven experience, dialogs, choices and consequences that matters, the main character not knowing his past and therefore discovering himself along the way and his redemption arc when he realizes who he is and who he was and therefore become in peace with himself and all the things his former self past made are one of the many similarities they share.

[@Merknilash]

@@markralfdisco Elysian was commie trash

[@TaylorTaxpayer]

Mechanically speaking disco is a modern version of torment. It is unbelievable how similar the games are

[@joedredd1168]

Commie.

[@onnol917]

This game has the best rpg story of all, by a fair margin. I thoroughly enjoyed it and it made a lasting impression

[@nervous711]

The writers team is genius, personal struggle is an abstract emotion, and very hard to describe, let alone deep discussion. But Chris Avellone and his team managed to visualize and materialize these complex feelings, wisely fit into this bizaard Planescape setting yet still familiar as our possible life emotional struggles. This seemingly wierd, surreal world is actually depicting our belief contradiction, self-lost torment, and how we from which struggle for a new way out. In these, Planscape: Torment is never a game, it is a beautiful, and brilliant demonstration of philosophy.

[@Thagomizer]

41:02 "The obvious alternative is another game set in the Planescape world without any of the characters from Planescape: Torment." You do know that Planescape was an established D&D setting before this game, right? There was a wealth of terrific material written for Planescape and Torment barely scratches the surface of any of it. 2nd Edition was the era of the campaign setting, and Planescape in particular had the best fluff material of just about anything TSR put out at that time. I'm still collecting Planescape rulebooks and boxed sets that are 24 odd years old, because I love this setting so much, and my collection is nowhere near complete. I'd happily run another pnp Planescape game with anyone who cared to join, and would love to see another game in this setting. Of course, that will never happen, since it's all owned by WoTC now, and the setting has been discontinued and/or subsumed into the newer material, but the fanbase continues on.

[@Arakhor]

I literally went and bought the Planescape setting off the strength of PS: Torment. It and Birthright are easily my favourite D&D settings.

[@matej8924]

I'd be very thankful if you pointed to some sources to get the planescape material and also in which order to absorb the info. :))

[@assidbath94]

@@matej8924 i know many ppl use this answer as a snarky insult, but i was curious myself so i just googled it and i wanted to let you know i found all sorts of place to not only buy many diff game variant ( ie 2nd edition, AD&D version, even a pdf 5th edition variant) but also many places to download PDF copies too, since most of the ways i found to buy original table top physical copies were very pricey (still worth it if you can afford them) my suggestion would be to just download PDF copies....and again...google had all the answers....hope that helps.

[@Myxril]

Words cannot describe how monumental this game's influence was in my life.Playing through this story and experiencing its lore was, in hindsight, a perpetual source of ASMR for me. The most impacting moment of the game for me was when I arrived at the end and talked with the Good Incarnation. There was something about learning that he was the Original Incarnation, discovering that he found an answer ("Regret") to his proposed riddle-payment to Ravel ("What can change the nature of a man?"), and learning all of his memories (as well as his /true name/) from the Bronze Sphere I'd carried throughout the game.For some reason, that singular moment in the game was enough for me that I experienced what I can only describe as an ASMRgasm. I felt so many feelings for TNO at that point, for having suffered for such an unfathomable amount of time, to ultimately reclaim so much of himself in the moment leading up to confronting his own Mortality. This game impacted my life like a goddamn meteor. It utterly crushed me. For all of the thousands of years spent cycling through and struggling with fits of amnesia while trying to atone for an unforgivable crime, he was ultimately forced to accept his fate (or obliterate himself from existence to avoid it via Blade of The Immortal). The ending induced the rage-fueled question "Why even fucking bother, then?! WhAt WaS iT aLl EvEn FoR?!?!" Indeed. If everything is ultimately a futile and pointless effort, then why try? I might have been 17 at the time, but I don't think I was truly ready to experience this vein of philosophy in such a direct, objective way. 11/10 would spiritually crush myself again in a heartbeat

[@Ritchian]

Planescape: Torment is the best video game I've ever read. It is one of the most carefully crafted stories in all of gaming and one of the precious few that make your choices actually can change how the game plays out. The control and combat is frustrating (I haven't played the remaster, so I'm not sure if any of my biggest quibbles have been fixed.) But the story more than makes up for that. The story it tells is personal. It's not an epic where you're saving the universe, or multiverse as the case may be. The good or evil you do is incidental to the world you're traveling. But it's a brilliant gem of a game. I'm surprised you made it through as chaotic evil. Not because it's impossible or that the game punishes you directly. But to hit that level of evil misanthropy, the things you have to do as an evil Nameless One does are just awful. I tried going evil once, but I couldn't stick with it because I got disgusted with what a manipulative bastard my character was quickly becoming. Most of my runs usually end up somewhere between chaotic good and chaotic neutral. I have yet to go full lawful good. Being a sarcastic smart ass with Morte is too much fun. I love how the game makes you question things you take for granted in other video games. Like dying. You can and will die a lot. You'll die in combat. You'll die because of dialogue choices. You'll die to solve puzzles. I think you can die at least once to settle a bet. Anyone who has ever played almost any video game might not think much of it. It's just how the game works. It's the failure state. Well, when the Nameless One dies... Yeah. It might not seem like it, but you've caused something bad to happen. Saying what spoils a fairly clever twist. And the ending. It's my favorite ending in gaming. Where so many modern games toss you into the Ending-o-Tron 5000, this game makes you use what you've learned to face your mortality. The speech where you talk about belief is a true culmination of everything you've seen and experienced since waking up on the slab. The setting of Planscape is built on belief. You can quite literally will a person into being during the game. Belief is the cause of and solution to almost everything you encounter. It may end up being corny, but that is the best answer to Ravel's question. At least from the perspective of the Nameless One. For what it's worth, Torment: Tides of Numenera is a good spiritual successor. There's many similarities (and some of the plot feels a bit too similar), but it seems to try to do its own thing. It is a text-heavy game and doesn't have a ton of necessary combat, and what it has handles better than it did in Planescape. I'm not sure I'd rate it as highly as Planscape: Torment, but it's worth a play.

[@ToveriJuri]

I wonder if you've read Disco: Elysium now that's it out.

[@codyvandal2860]

@@ToveriJuri Beating Disco Elysium is what finally made me go play Planescape. Two of my all time favorite games now

[@ToveriJuri]

@@codyvandal2860 Very Nice! People make fun of Video Game storytelling and for a good reason, but there are gems like these two too.

[@megamike15]

@@ToveriJuri Disco Elysium just makes tides of numanara look even worse.

[@ToveriJuri]

@@megamike15 It does. Numera's world had potential the story idea was decent and yet everything about it feels boring and mediocre.

[@oliviawilliams6204]

A bit surprised you did not mention that each times you die and come back it’s because an innocent person in that plane died in your place, and the more you die the more shadows are after you

[@Arakhor]

There were some real gut-punches in this game and that was definitely one of them.

[@BlueCrashFigurineHoldingWumpa]

Olivia Williams yeah... that made me feel a lot better about being a prideful save scammer throughout the whole game

[@crypT1k4Fun]

This is the best written piece of media ever created, the writers of this game deserve rewards for their contribution to literary media. I adore this game and regard it to be a masterpiece. Im lucky to be alive in this age to have played this. Thank you for covering it.

[@ToTheNines87368]

redra amen. I played it way later (2007ish), and was still majorly affected by it.

[@squirrelknight9768]

Uhm no

[@gilgamesh310]

I’d say best written piece of media is pushing it. Best written game, maybe, but the best written games don’t compete with the best written works in other media.

[@jon-umber]

You need to read more classic literature mate.

[@gregoryberrycone]

its no moby dick

[@Kataaaaaar]

Don’t know why your channel isn’t growing way faster than it is right now Chris. You hit the beat of what’s becoming popular on KZbin perfectly. Your videos are also the ones I prioritize highest in terms of actually watching them through. I follow most of the big KZbin critics and you are among the best. You definitely deserve a larger audience in my opinion. Hope all goes well for you. I’ll be here watching ❤️

[@thefalloutwiki]

I agree, he is hands down one of the absolute most creative, down to earth, intelligent creators here. I will be here as well!

[@neilholmes8200]

I think my favourite fact about this game is the amazing cast they pulled together for the voice acting.

[@wanderinghistorian]

"Each of the planes you visit represents one of the nine alignments." What? Mind telling me which plane is "good aligned?" Sigil - Neutral Outlands - Neutral Ravel's Maze (demiplane) - Probably Neutral or Evil Carceri - Evil Modron Maze (Limbo) - Chaotic or you could possibly argue Lawful since the "piece" of Mechanus is there Curst - In the Outlands, Neutral with Evil tendencies Baator - Lawful Evil You never go anywhere that's good aligned.

[@dreamhaze9123]

Yeah, he's wrong. A bunch of locations belong to the same plane, true neutral Outlands.

[@314epsilon]

step 1 to being a better D&D player: *use crushing damage*

[@BlueCrashFigurineHoldingWumpa]

C R U S H your enemies

[@flowerman1337]

See them driven before you

[@Koitsuba]

And hear the lamentation of their women.

[@usern4metak3ns]

Very good

[@carneus]

I've played many games over the years and none has ever made me feel like Planescape Torment. I wouldn't say it's the best game, but it certainly is the best adventure.

[@rclamond]

I can't wait for your Baldur's Gate 2 video. That was and remains one of the most memorable gaming experiences I have had. I have, on several occasions, re-installed it and started a new playthrough to experience the npc banter and relationships again.

[@vensheaalara]

Honestly, I had blown through Baldur's Gate several times before I place Torment. I loved BG, but Torment was another beast entirely. Here you got to LIVE your way to the character you wanted, instead of creating a cut-out and trying to stick to it. Brilliant game with intriguing, deep lessons and thought-provoking interactions.

[@LifeIn8Bit]

Its a minor detail but I really appreciated you adding the fact that you can listen to the video like a podcast and the visual is just a backdrop. Noone has ever done that and I listen to a lot of stuff walking to work. So yeah, cheers!

[@ToaOfGallifrey]

Recently I started a KOTOR 2 playthrough with the character designed as a lawful neutral knight of the Republic, who is a soldier first and foremost and loyal to the Republic to the last (ie: no dealing with Hutts, no dealing with the Exchange, no tolerating Mandalorians, though the game doesn't give you much room to spite them on Dxun) and with stats built around damage and survival, not intellect or wisdom the way I played just about all my other playthroughs. The result was a character who couldn't figure out how to trick HK-50 into reciting the maintenance code into the sonic imprint sensor and had to smash the console to get past the airlock on Peragus. Moral of the story is: smart characters are much more rewarding in Avellone RPGs.

[@minine6508]

I just finished my first playthrough as per your recommendation and holy moly is this game incredible. I love all the points you made, especially the bit of how th ending was perfect. Literally facing your mortality and the nameless one deciding “yes, I believe that I should be in this blood war for the rest of time because of what I’ve done”

[@ToriKo_]

I've been lurking around this channel for quite some time now, but I had to make a comment about how much I enjoy your writing. I caught up with the history of ICRPGs 6 & 5 and the Anthem review, and the quality of your writing is great throughout.

[@YouWillNeverKnowMan]

One note on the second-to-last fight (from a good-aligned character). As you mentioned, if you are good, you fight Ignus instead of Vhailor. In my last run, I was playing a mage and during the whole game, I didn't really have to do much in fights (ever). I personally *loved* that epic solo fight. It has been the only time in the whole game in which I could (/had to) unload all my character's power. It was deeply satisfying.

[@tc8557]

I was 18 when I first found this game. I absolutely fell in love with it, because of the story. The combat isn't anything special. 14 years later, I still vividly remember finding my own body parts and attaching them to myself while exploring the world, and the place in one of the districts where you could enter people's memories and experience them as your own. Amazing game, and very underrated.

[@pigozz]

About the original sin : it is very lightly implied that the nameless one actually started the blood war of the lower planes

[@ChrisDavis_Games]

That would be one hell of a sin!

[@Regularguy220]

Where is it implied?

[@BananaMystic]

"What I want is what I lamented the lack of at the beginning of this video: a sub-genre of games like Planescape: Torment, dialogue-heavy games that don't even pretend to focus on combat. Games that are brave enough to be overwhelmingly depressing no matter what choices you make. A focus on an individual's problems, regrets, and desires... " I did a search of your videos and didn't see it in any titles; have you heard of Disco Elysium?

[@catzilla5855]

Disco Elysium is the closest thing to Planescape Torment since.... Planescape Torment? Maybe even better? It was so refreshing to play an isometric rpg without stupid ass repetitive and copy-paste combat encounters

[@megamike15]

after what happened with the deus ex review. it might be a good idea if chris just stays away from Disco Elysium.

[@michimatsch5862]

megamike15 what do you mean?

[@LostInNumbers]

This video is a bit of a rarity: A Planescape: Torment review by a first time player. Most people who make video of this game have had years if not decades since their first play-through and the had more than enough time to develop nostalgia to the game. It's been so long since I've seen someone sharing their first impression of PS:T, and I'm glad to see it still as powerful today as it was back in 1999.

[@thomr902]

I really like this video, particularly your analytical tone. It was recommended to me by the platform and I'm pleased for once. I should state I like and know this game well, which helped, and i think your assessments are all fair. If only more games...

[@tommyinthewell]

21:56 - you can actually talk with the dead wizard. There's a way to learn that skill in game from another character, then you can complete the rest.

[@jmarra07]

I'm about 2/3 through this game from what I understand, and I'd like to thank you for recommending it because I really like it so far. The writing is so interesting and well done. Very addicting to play, and I'm pretty sure that, like you, the first thing I'll do after beating it is starting a new game to test out other choices. Thanks!

[@Darkholow]

They don't make these type of games anymore. I have been late to the party with this game and only played it for the first time in 2013, but once I did it has catapulted itself to my 1# of all time and it has remained there ever since. I don't think we will ever get such a well written game and story.

[@catgaming9791]

Well done. This was a most brilliant and hard to describe game. I've just bought it again on the PS4 version with Icewind Dale.

[@EisenKreutzer]

Regarding Nordoms lack of a painful background, he does come from conflict. He is a rogue modron, a race created to be emotionless, without personality, forever filled with unquestionable purpose. Nordom has lost his connection to the other modrons. He has no purpose, and is the antithesis of everything a modron is supposed to be. This would be an immensely painful thing for anyone to experience, but since Nordom lacks true emotions he can’t really experience this.

[@HerbieChuckNorris]

The description of what you want from a genre of RPG's, story based, no combat etc is EXACTLY the pitch for Disco Elysium.

[@megamike15]

de shows you can have an rpg with no combat.

[@steve_jackson9933]

Planescape Torment turned everything upside down and inside out. It was, and still is, unlike anything else out there.

[@XenomorphsWrath]

I was way too young when I played this, had to play it in my second language which I barely spoke .. still had alot of fun with it. Great game, nice review, thank you. :)

[@pavelrahl6284]

20 seconds in, but I think I know why this masterpiece didn't have clones. Those would take far too much effort.

[@TheCivildecay]

I did buy the boxed version at my local electronics shop, BECAUSE of the pictures on the box haha

[@Bobby0wnz]

That angry gamer description at the end was spot on lol

[@kazaddum2448]

Dat handholding monologe.

[@silentspartan46]

A bit much if you ask me

[@te9591]

I'm 36 yrs old and I still think about this game.

[@Faoulon]

Loving this series so far! It's given me some more games for my list, and I'm exited to get to them. Thanks for making these!

[@mohamedelhawy4124]

Keep up the CRPG please man, respect for your reviews

[@zaratustra00]

Disco Elysium, my friend.

[@TheBoxingCannabyte]

Juuuuust downloaded this. Ive heard a lot of good things (also picked up pillars of eternity 2 which has been my favorite crpgs since Baldur's gate 2. In fact i like Pillars more than Divinity original sin 1 and 2!) But... i got Baldur's gates 2 prerelease wnd casn÷

[@ChodeMaster]

Overrated as hell.

[@ilyan.v]

@@ChodeMaster Is hell really overrated?

[@mdogg094]

@@ChodeMaster what a brilliant criticism you’ve really countered everyone who loves that game. Genius.

[@ChodeMaster]

@@mdogg094 Thank

[@MasterBeowulf]

what you said about the pictures on the back of the box not convince anybody to buy the game, I am some one who never heard of the game and bought it just from the pictures and reading the box. to be honest I thought it would play more like diablo than Baldurs' Gate, but I ended up loving it anyways

[@BinaryDood]

While I'm more of a JRPG fan, this game feels like the indisputable king in the RPG field

[@Jrdotan]

Thats fallout 2 for me

[@SantaDuJuan]

Your joke about should have knowing how to defeat a boss and break a game’s leveling system WHILE leveling was hilarious and oh so true

[@NeeshkaLover]

23:50 to 33:50 major story spoilers great video, ive been temped to play this for a long a time. guess i should finally do it

[@yorkoh5880]

Thank you for this. I never got around to playing BG's sister CRPG so I don't want to ruin too much for myself.

[@RenaldoJeffHardy]

Thanks for producing a video like every two weeks for the most recently. Much appreciated

[@jakubpuawski3875]

are you telling me that everyone's favourite round quick right--click menu is gone from the enhanced edition? OH THE HORROR

[@megamike15]

when people say the ee don't need to exist i point to this as a counter argument. that wheel menu was not very good and i'm glad it's gone.

[@fist3484]

Big fan of these videos, man. Iso/CRPGs are my bread and butter, and what got me into gaming instead of just... reading. I wouldn't even play other genres if not for RTS and CRP games. To top it off, I'd like to extend a willingness to play BG or IWD with you if you ever get the bug to play multiplayer.

[@Heeroneko]

You don't actually have to ever even meet Ignis or Vhailor. Certain conversations are what cause them to end up aggressive I think. I'm pretty sure there's a way to prevent them from fighting you at the end but I don't remember.

[@PanNiebieski]

Even when you ignore Vhailor he will still fight you. In my first playtrought I killed Ignus and still I have to fight him as a good guy.

[@Maharani1991]

Looks awesome. I fucking love the art direction, too. Great video as always. Thank you :)

[@toomex91]

SPOILER: You actally can die and lose, having to load a save, if you attack Lothar. (With CD chaotic evil nature, suprised that he haven't tried that ;p)

[@mutenroshie]

There are many ways to die or end the game, encountering the lady of pain twice, becomming the silent king, getting killed by valor or Ignatius, getting killed by trias or ravel. Etc. That game was the highlight of my teenage pc gaming years.

[@Caspenar]

TBH I always listen to your videos in the background while playing some strategy or other game with little to no voicelines. So the podcast format is perfect for me.

[@zerimoth]

Great review! You forgot to mention how the incredible soundtrack affected the sense of story, pain, regret and wonder. Also meeting Vhailor in battle with a relatively low level chaotic evil mage (and even first playthrough without special tactics), that's something I wouldn't even try! If I had to maybe I'd try with entropic blade, missle of patience and mechanus cannon etc... haven't played for years, working from memory...

[@CruelDwarf]

I think Vhalior (a living armor from the fight before the end) is actually one of the companion characters. But he is good alignment and was probably unavailable to you in this particular playthrough.

[@planescaped]

He 100% is. IIRC you have to be neutral alignment. Or was it Lawful? I dunno, he usually tries killing me and I ditch him for IGNUSS IT BURRRRNSS!

[@dive_bomb3r]

@@planescaped Evil Nameless one fights Vhailor, good and neutral fights Ignus. Doesn't matter if you killed them beforehand or not even met them.

[@matej8924]

I think Vhailor was lawful neutral

[@mrchuckmorris]

Vhailor is a MercyKiller, which is a group so devoted to Lawful Neutral they're almost parodies of it. He himself was so devoted to his mission of upholding the letter of the law that he willed himself into refusing to cease to exist until his mission was complete. His body and mind died and rotted away inside his armor, while his will persisted. It persisted so long it actually forgot what its mission was, until, of course, you discover it yourself and remind him...…..

[@augustvalek]

To this day I repeat that question to myself, and never forgot that dialogue with Ravel, and of course, the third wish

[@zanmato86]

Really enjoying this series. This was a great time for gaming.

[@leilatumbleston8966]

Huh the origin of the nameless one sounds like it was an inspirational for the protagonistic premise of Altered Carbon.

[@ludditedred]

Cracking review, and a great video. I'm currently playing through it again on the Switch after many years, and this was a nice companion piece.

[@claudiu7555]

Are you gonna play through Arcanum? If yes, I'm sure you'll love the freedom of choice in that game

[@planescaped]

That game perhaps had a wee bit too much freedom, considering you can legit break your game or miss out on story by going certain places too soon. XD

[@megamike15]

he counted fallout and arcanum is bascily the last isomectric crpg until the recent era. so i assume he will cover it.

[@qaibas]

@@planescaped Where can you go to break your game?

[@megamike15]

@@qaibas i'm curious as well. unlike fallout 1 nd 2 arcanum has alot more plot gates to prevent that sort of thing.

[@cerocero2817]

One of the best broken games ever made, that game earned my love just in the pages of it's manual.

[@kyleromus6845]

MINOR SPOILER Playing as a mage seemed to be the best way to experience more of the overall story. The Mebeth storyline for example. Having her teach you the art, then returning to her after finding out that she and two others where actually split incarnations of Ravel, but didn't even fully realize it.

[@dominikseljan3043]

Awesome video Chris, can't wait to play this for the first time. Hopefully soon!

[@ffdfdfdfdfdfdfdf]

I think Anna was quite well written. She has a life of rejection and neglect yet clings and loves pharrod and the nameless one, both individuals who don’t truly care about her anywhere near as much as she loves them. I found is resoundingly tragic that the moment I found out that Anna loved me was the moment she came face to face with her my mortality and we all know how that ended. Out of every companion, she cared the most but showed it the least. It also demonstrated to me a clear parallel with deionnara. I thought how could a previous incarnation of Tno do that to such a nice woman. Yet by the end of the game without me even realising, I had done it to Annah. Flashing out the romance would have removed this deep impact from the game and I thought it was done very very tactfully.

[@Golmov_the_Wretched]

This isn't meant as a criticism, but there were sooooo many points in this video where you missed important things that change your perception of elements of the game! It's a testament to the depth of this game.

[@kaptenteo]

I've been replaying this now. There are a couple of flaws I never noticed when I was younger, but Planescape Torment is still a masterpiece.

[@MrGabilonia]

Good plot synopsis. Planescape's OST is interesting, hope people check it out. I also hope Arcanum gets reviewed. That OST is sublime.

[@Heyoka86]

Replaying PT after just completing Disco Elysium makes it so transparent to see how much DE inspired itself from PT. The amnesia trope, the drive to find out your own name, being able to introduce yourself with a false name, finding out about how you hurt others in the past, Deionarra = Dolores Dei, etc. I can't seem to get into Tides of Numenara, but so far Disco Elysium is, for me, the spiritual successor to PT.

[@darkbeach72]

I played this game back when it was released and I am glad that in your opinion I played the best of the genre. I never really played any others. I started Baldur's Gate but it didn't hold my attention. Very recently I completed both Fallout Isometric games from GOG and enjoyed them mainly because I'm in love with the Fallout universe. Chris Avellone is a treasure. I wish there were more like him.

[@Dan-uf2vh]

not sure that charisma is all that important; wis > int > cha is the way to go; to the contrary as far as class is concerned, the easiest is a fighter and you should ignore physical stats until the latter parts of the game; the only good reason to gain your mage side (or maybe just wisdom & int with 1 level as mage) is to complete Dak'kon's quest

[@animelibrarian6525]

Great work, since we seem to have similar priorities and tastes I think that this will remain your favorite in this series untill the very end, at least when it comes to story, BG2 will propably win you over big time too. Additionaly I hope that you haven't overlooked it and will include Age of Decadance as a part of this projeckt. Just like Planescape that game gives you a ton of freedom to be who you want to be but in the realistic way, I played through the whole game as as a weak, eloquent mearchant and killed only one guy in tutorial(so to say)... at fourth try.

[@captainjellicoe1701e]

yeah this was my first taste of a game where you can be good or evil or neutral and I've always enjoyed reading so I was really intrigued by the dialogue in some ways it's more like reading a novel then playing a game

[@64bitAtheist]

There was a game in a similar style. It had a male human soldier, a female hunter or soldier and a foul mouthed hilarious dwarf who's idle phrase was something approximating: "Come on! I can feel my beard growing!" The first puzzle in the game was also pretty unique as you had to find a handle or crank in order to repair a rack a man is being tortured on. You have to pull his limbs off to proceed as the door is behind the man on the rack.

[@Yuudaddy]

My personal answer was "Immortality" because all of the other things are the a part of being a man/mortal and immortality is the only thing that truly changes the nature of mortals.

[@Arakhor]

I chose either love or regret, based on my experiences playing through the game.

[@mrchuckmorris]

@@Arakhor On my first playthrough, I chose regret. I feel it fits with the original "Good" incarnation's motivations in that sense. But I'd like to attempt an evil playthrough, and I wonder what that'll lead me to choose. But man... some of those evil decisions... the manipulation and abuse, especially when it comes to your current (or former) companions... it's so dang painful. I don't know if I can actually do it. It speaks volumes about a game's incredible writing that gamers nowadays will mow down virtual cops and pedestrians without a second thought, but they'll agonize over clicking on a text box that'll make an imaginary person tell a lie that'll utterly destroy some other imaginary person's reason for (imaginary) existence. I think the secret ingredient is the identical dialogue options which insert "(Truth:)" and "(Lie:)". In any other game, there would just be a single option, and the game would already decide if that was a "good" or "evil" decision and have characters react accordingly. But in PS:T, *YOU* get to decide your motivations. Ah crap, this always happens. I can't type a single comment about this game without devolving into paragraph upon paragraph. What a game.

[@Arakhor]

Only one of my half-dozen playthroughs was an evil one and I abandoned it around about the Clerks' Ward as I was really starting to loathe the person I was playing.

[@kyleromus6845]

I really liked the twist with Mebeth near the end

[@trevor_mounts_music]

My uncle gave me this about 2001. Played it to DEATH as a kid. Nothing but good memories there.

[@Jiggerjaw]

Do Dungeon Siege. It's my wife's favorite game, and I haven't figured out why. But it seems to be viscerally enjoyable enough, and an interesting time capsule from a bygone age of RPGs.

[@pmcgarrey]

Bronze sphere: best experience dump ever.

[@Yora21]

Creators should never be shamed for ideas they pondered but did not put into the final product. Brain farts are part of the creative process.