Commodore Amiga 2000 Vampire 68080 VS pi3b+ and 4gb Pi4

E161: In this corner, My Commodore Amiga2000HD/68080 Vampire with 128mb fastram and 1mb chip SAGA RTG Versus: a 35$ Raspberry Pi 3B+ and a $55.00 Pi4B 4GB running system performance tests sysspeed/whichamiga/sysinfo, then the quake demo - the 3B+ had an issue with the quake demo and had to forfit, but the 4b did freaking awesome.... scores in the scroll after the tests. *note- these are my test, there are a thousand ways to do them, and Amiga people have many thoughts and opinions, dont flame, just my runs and no way make or break the case for any , i do this for fun and love them all , hope you can to. ENJOY!~ thanks for watching!

[@temp911Luke]

Wow. I must admit. I absolutely love your Workbench (2:02) : The icons, the taskbar ...absolutely georgous. My old 1200 PPC 3.1 had only magic icons which were pretty ok but i had always wanted to have icons like yours.

[@wildmagic520]

Love this video. Also owned an Amiga 2000 which I regret giving up. Bought an Raspberry Pi 400 with 4GB ram from Canakit. Was considering buying a Vampyre... I did spend a lot for expansion boards and even had a video toaster. Now I might just stick with the Raspberry Pi! Subscribed and I' ll be checking out your other videos. Appreciate your work.

[@amigang]

It is nice to own the orginal hardware but I kinda of agree, I recommend pi for any retro fan wanting a quick fix of classic games/amiga.

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

It ultimately comes down to money, and availability

[@billgaudette5524]

Awesome comparison :) Looking at the Amiberry site now! When you were going over the totals for what you had in your original I was thinking back to my own Amiga journey in the 80's and early 90's. My buddy had an original (No Commodore logo) Amiga, and we upgraded that with the front RAM expansion as well as piggy-backed DIMMS to double that too. A while later I ended up getting rear-ended and used the insurance payout to buy a new A500 for myself, and then our apartment was full of yelling during head-to-head battles with built-up cables in Stunt Car Racer and Fighter Duel. We were doing multiplayer (not)LAN parties long before they were popular ;) After that came a Mega-Midget Racer (030 + 882 @33MHz & SRAM ), A2000, Toaster, Framebuffer, Genlocks, RAM Expansions, Hard drives, flicker-fixers...all the goodies! I think I spent more on Amiga hardware than I've ever spent on a car, lol!

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

well i used to work for Commodore at a small retailer fixing them when they were new,. nothing like the repairs i have to do today! (what do you do to a new car... just improvements and minor repairs, pico fuses, cia's and the like, only had 2 agnus replacements under warranty my entire 4 years there.... My Amiga 2000hd in the videos i have owned since new. im the only owner, i took her out of the box, i think i paid like 1499.00 WITH my measly employee discount. mthen over the years accumulated tons more hardware and software from running a bbs (thats still live on that 2000) you can download syncterm for mac or windows and go to adibbs.sytes dot net port 6800 and relive the old bbs days. ( and still download Amiga files through Zmodem like it was 1989), also check out my older Pi3B+ video down a little more, it has links for the files and the configured goodies. the Pi4 lockdown edition video a few weeks ago has links for it too. just run virusZ on her after flashing the card, as shes loaded with happynewyear 96 viruses.

[@billgaudette5524]

@@ChrisEdwardsRestoration I also worked at a retailer that sold both PCs and Amigas. In fact, my workstation was an A2000 with a BridgeBoard so I could use the POS software for sales. It was the terribly slow A2286AT model, which really put the POS in...POS ;) It was there that I met a fellow who was writing a book about the Video Toaster - he had gotten one from NewTek but didn't actually have an Amiga to put it in, so I lent him mine and he let me keep the Toaster afterwards. Not a bad deal! I found the Lightwave software a bit tougher to use than Imagine, but was able to figure it out enough to do some fun commercials for a local video producer. The ability to have animated textures taken from video capture and frame-by-frame rendering to studio quality VHS really was amazing for them; they'd never seen anything like it!

[@chrisearl2217]

Interesting video, great comparison of modern Amiga solutions mate. A video with some rigours testing of games and software on the pi4 would be very interesting, really dig in find the strengths and weaknesses. Keep up the good work.

[@Penguins247]

Thank you for doing this! Be aware that synthetic benchmarks are not a good test of performance when you're looking at emulators (both Vampire and Pi). People often "optimise" those for benchmark tests. If you want to do a proper test, run something like Lightwave, or a fractal program over time. Thank you for the good advice about Virus Z!

[@alk7934]

I started with emulation, including on the pi. Then you get THE ITCH. Then before you know it you're paying wallet smashing prices for real systems! Beware!

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

My PayPal credit balance agrees

[@Snowcrash777]

lol@@ChrisEdwardsRestoration

[@alanhaynes4576]

Very good demo and interesting to see. I would like to see a comparison between these results and an emulator on the pc? How does your windows 10 PC compare to the Pi4b?

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

im sure its better, but that wasnt what this was about, just some pi3 and pi4, the A2000 did great considering its almost 30! held its own strong to new hardware

[@alanhaynes4576]

@@ChrisEdwardsRestoration I think you are probably right and I do realise that your vid was about comparing the 2000 with the Pi 3b and 4b. What really surprised me was how much faster the 4b was compared to the 3b. Yes it is hard to think sometimes that our 2000's are almost 30 years old. I got mine in 1992 and I think the build date was 1991.

[@methanoid]

Thank you for a great video. I confess I did keep thinking "but overclock those Pis as nobody runs them stock!" - the Pi4 OC to 2147 would fly.... I have a MiSTer and all the Pis made... I think for games the MiSTer will be better (less lag) but otherwise the Pi is superb.

[@st3ddyman]

Cool. Thanks for showing my case Chris. Great video. The problem with emulation is not the max speed, it is the consistency of speed. I’d love to see a comparison of the minimum frame rates across different games, not just the average.

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

true, but i stated in my desc "*note- these are my test, there are a thousand ways to do them, and Amiga people have many thoughts and opinions, dont flame, just my runs and no way make or break the case for any , i do this for fun and love them all , hope you can to. ENJOY!~ thanks for watching!"

[@10MARC]

I think the pi is an awesome solution for a nice portable Amiga - something that can be taken to user group meetings and such. So portable and inexpensive! Ever so slightly easier to transport than the Amiga 2000...

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

slightly lighter than the a2k

[@plattcriceta1719]

What do you mean by smoking? The Pi got the same FPS as the Vampire, at a lower resolution (320x200 vs 320x240)??

[@anonymouse2041]

And don’t forget you can also overclock the Pi4 for even better performances, chose the emulation you want between 68K up to 68040 (even if 68040 is not fully completed yet) and finally on the Pi4 the amiga was emulated, so that’s even more impressive. I totally agree that people should start from the Pi and then, eventually, if they really really want to own some original Amiga HW they may consider that. However, before purchasing old Amiga parts, my personal choice would got to the Vampire V4 standalone, because it’s much faster than the V2 you’ve showed and because it’s much smaller than any original amiga case and has all modern features like usb keyboard and mouse and finally it also has a much better bandwidth for the chipram which was the real core cause of amiga’s death in the past.

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

16:33 that is why i said the pi4 in the end, not many can afford a multi thousand dollar Amiga nowaday , when you can get the experience for 50$ on a pi and a few hours of your time setting it up. but as usual the amiga community bashes, splits, and opinionated everything, and no one read the full description of the video where i stated that these test were my own and there are a million ways to do them and these were just my runs and in no way make or break the case for any one.... but i digress...

[@oskarzemcik1548]

I have tested fsuae on i7 4,5ghz and get 3 100 000 drystones! And better results are with 68020 instead of 040... My mister scores only 13 000dhr, but its better for acurate emulation.

[@martindianeclark7841]

Not a problem chris, what youve done is amazing as it is, just wondered if you had an idea what was causing the symptoms

[@HoldandModify]

Ok I don’t want to sound weird but you sound like the perfect blend of Phil Hendrie and Hoovie. Both can be found on KZbin and of course Hendrie many places. You’re blowing my mind. lol. Cool vid by the way.

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

Hoovies garage ? lol um , thanks ?

[@daskarman]

Let's get ready to rumble! - 👍

[@Gunstarrhero1]

quake didnt run i believe because your system was configured for pal, you were attempting to run in NTSC. 60hz, not 50...... on the pi3

[@DragonNova]

Raspberry pi is an amazing little hobby computer and the Vampire is also a great little hobby computer but it's way more expensive. Just choose the one that makes sense for you 😉

[@rkadowns]

Let's not forget that currently 68040 emulation is not really 68040. Not fully implemented. Still impressive results for the price. Configure config.txt for 50Hz screen refresh and you cannot tell the difference between emulation and real HW, except for the emulation being so fast.

[@JasonStevens]

The winuae 68040 is enough to run NeXTSTEP on Previous...

[@BudgetBuiltGarage]

Do you have an image of the Pi4 sdcard? Looks like you have an awesome setup.

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

Somewhere it was my early pimiga days when i was working on lockdown edition

[@stephanemignot100]

2004 eMac here, Drystones 46634, Mips 48,67, MFlops 6,24... (: Time to buy a Pi400! A good CRT and speakers came with it though.

[@stephenbruce8320]

Yea Pi does a nice job with Amiga Stuff! I love my Amiga Classics. I have a bunch of Pi3b and a couple newer Pi4's that I have played around with but most of my time has been spend working on my Classic Amiga's. Amiga's have been in my house forever they are old friends for sure. Now if someone is on a tight budget and want's to enjoy the Amiga experience you have WinUAE and the very impressive Pi. If the Pi Craps out no big deal you get another and move a card and your back in business.

[@kuntosjedebil]

Sometimes it seems to me that the only thing Amiga owners do with their machines is running benchmarks and ports of classical 3D shooters. Amigas were stomped so hard into the ground by IBM compatibles that it reverberates in the community to this day and manifests itself like this.

[@benbaselet2026]

You aren't entirely wrong there :)

[@camberiu]

@@benbaselet2026 He is 1000% right.

[@jenyates3033]

Yep, loved my Amiga, but playing x-wing on my first pc was a 'never going back' moment.

[@andycraig7734]

kuntosjedebil No. It has nothing to do with being “stomped”. Look at any hobby and you’ll find people comparing price:performance. And you have goofballs like yourself insulting the hobby. You are just silly.

[@benbaselet2026]

@@andycraig7734 And here we find the commenter who turns every opinion into personal insults, congratulatuins.

[@jazzynet1]

Really enjoyed this video. I hate I lost my Amiga. 2000 and 4000 with. Video toaster cards and all the works. Lost my 3000, 500, and 128 in a flood. Even lost lost an apple laptop when they came out with the color model. Boy were those the daze 😊

[@MrLukealbanese]

Tell you Chris, our phones could probably put up the Pi4 performance..😉😉😉

[@fasih_rehman]

Great video!

[@princeofdenmark9142]

Thanks for confirming my suspicions :)

[@fcf8269]

I have yet to find a reason why a sane person would buy a vampire. Even if you want to go for the "original amiga experience", once you set up a vampire, it takes over your original hardware, so the experience is the same as putting a PI inside an amiga case and use an amiga keyboard with it. I love original hardware too, but if I have to spend 1000 for the computer itself (usually in crappy conditions), and then add another 600 dollars for the vampire; which is not an add-on card like a blizzard or an apollo old school card, but simulate a 080 that never existed in FPGA, then I am totally fine to take the "emulation" hit on a pi and run everything on a 50 dollars board.

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

Actually it doesnt. Only core3 alpha for the 500v2. Think of the 500/600v2’s as kick ass accelerators

[@fcf8269]

@@ChrisEdwardsRestoration Well, an accelerator for the Amiga take over the CPU and bus to access the chip ram and the various chips on the board. This card is bypassing everything fundamentally, beside Paula and Gary I believe, to access audio IO and disk IO. Video is onboard driven by the FPGA, memory is onboard, networking, CIA and everything else is on board. So fundamentally the 500 is a husk to supply power and few other things :)

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

do you own a vampire.? the RTG video is on the vamp, original ocs/ecs/aga is via the native denise and or lisa on the 1200. all the chipset is accessed. not fpga'd it can be recreated and it was for the core3 alpha, i did a video on it a bit back testing it out, running core3 to run the TBL starstruck aga 060 demo on the A2000. that was a full fpga recreation.

[@fcf8269]

@@ChrisEdwardsRestoration I do not own a vampire; I go by what is published about the Amiga architecture.I am no Dave Haynie, but he is on linkedin, so contact him is always an option. I am just a software engineer with few decades of field experience, so of course, I may be misunderstanding things eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=87490 This thread mention about AGA being emulated in FPGA on the Vampire, and even the chip mem is emulated; so what is left on the board if the memory controller (gary) is not used, and the video and the CPU is not used, is the CIA, floppy controller (which may be emulated too; the vampire use onboard connections for the SD card, right?) and the power management. I also recall the experiment made by Jeri Ellsworth; she made the whole A500 chipset implementation in hardware FPGA, as you can see in her youtube video. She abandoned the project, but that was in 2012, so that is not a discriminant to exclude that Apollo didn't do the implementation on FPGA in their boards.

[@soviet9922]

You are wrong, the v2 only replaces your CPU. Anyway, my vampire broke after a year of use so I'm out of defending it.

[@gonzalosebastianrodriguezz651]

But a falcon 030 run quake in 25 fps STOCK with the DSP , stock 68030 !!

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

Find a falcon....

[@aleksandarl6975]

I have A1200 with original Apollo1230 68030 accelerator, with standard upgrades any amiga owner today has, gotek, cf card etc, but if you are into reliving the amiga experience as fast and as cheap and easy as possible, i fully agree with you, pi4 is the easy way to do that.

[@GeoDelGonzo]

Time to get a Pi4

[@megan_alnico]

Another option is the MiSTer FPGA. It's about 3x the price of the PI 4 but it's amazing low latency and as close to cycle accurate as you can get. The Vampire also uses an an FPGA , the cyclone 3. The DE-10 nano uses a Cyclone V and has native HDMI out. It's very cool IMHO.

[@Kppot]

To run Quake you need UAE 320x200 8 bit resolution, not PAL or NTSC it is not because of Quake, but rather that particular port is screwed. I recommend Amiquake instead, it is better

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

thanks, i shall add amiquake to 1.5 and remove this turd!

[@bitset3741]

Great video. I have an A500 again after years of just emulation. Busted Mobo from Germany I fixed up and switched to NTSC and put into an old PC case. I love emulation since it lets me max out everything, but I still love the hardware. I do have a Raspberry Pi2 and Pi Zero W. I think the Pi2 should be close to 100% maybe? Maybe I'll try that.

[@peteratkin3788]

As I found out choosing an SD card in the pi is critical, if your not sure run off USB.

[@RDJ134]

I realy like this video, amazing how a small board can stand his ground with the original hardware. You mentioned a virus, there still virusses for the Amiga, wow. What does the new virus's do and are they a danger for the LAN the Pi or system is in??

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

its all on virus Z's website here www.vht-dk.dk/amiga/download.htm, it was just a new boot block exploit that the old virus scanners could not detect, as far as Pimiga, it was just loaded, it can all be cleaned. as mine is fine now. if you had other amigas on a network accessing infected files, just like a modern machine they too could get sick. But i think the Amiga2000 did outstanding, considering it was born dec 1990 and i remember the day i took her out of the box. 2002 monitor too because i could not afford a 1080 after spending 1400 on the 2000 in christmas 1990....seems like only yesterday. cant believe ive had it this long... dang i got old...

[@amithlon.]

chris very nice video ,thanks.amiga lover in istanbul turkey.

[@madpuppet666]

Vampire is interesting to me because it has SAGA, and SIMD instructions and 3D instructions so can potentially do some interesting stuff if just written for it... But if that's of no interest because you just want to run old Amiga software, then its really hard to justify the price tag. If they ever print the Vampire onto an ASIC chip, instead of just using FPGA, it could run at a > 1ghz and would blow all emulators away completely, but they said that'd cost them half a million dollars so won't be happening unless they get a rich benefactor... Otherwise I'm not sure it has any other advantages over the PI.... certainly none that justify the price difference.

[@alienbreedersamigaretrocom5188]

So, the Pi4 was 2fps faster, BUT the Vampire ran full screen, and the Pi was less of the screen, and we don't know what resolution the Vampire ran in

[@another3997]

You saw him using the default quake demo settings. The apparent size difference is most likely down to the HDMI switcher he was using. If you know someone with a Pi4, or buy one to have fun with, you can test it yourself. The Pi can be useful for lots of things other than Amiga emulation, and they are pretty cheap. They also fit in your pocket when you don't want to carry your Amiga 2/3/4 K around with you.

[@another3997]

You saw him using the default quake demo settings. The apparent size difference is most likely down to the HDMI switcher he was using. If you know someone with a Pi4, or buy one to have fun with, you can test it yourself. The Pi can be useful for lots of things other than Amiga emulation, and they are pretty cheap. They also fit in your pocket when you don't want to carry your Amiga 2/3/4 K around with you.

[@andrewenglish3810]

Hey Chris I moved and believe it or not I am still trying to get settled after 4 months. (grin) I love with you did on the Pi4, I looked online to see how to install Amiga OS on the Pi4 but don't see any, so what did you use to get the Amiga OS installed on it? I see they sell a Pi4 kit on Amazon.ca that includes everything including a 64GB microSD for like $142 CAD.

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

i did a video on Pimiga lockdown edition, or you can use the older ep105 for the pi3b+ but i would go with Pimiga, its setup like coffin on the vampire./

[@marquisor]

Pi4 blows away the Vampire performance in synthetic benchmarks, maybe demanding 3D titels, but can't run f.e. Jim Power (stock A500 game) at its real speed.

[@giornikitop5373]

given that the pi has ~x5 times higher clockspeed than the vampire (plus more cores), the amiga did pretty good and it's normal to be stomped in the mips benchmark. however the mflops is more likely in line of somewhat the actual difference, hence the quake results. also we are talking about a machine that is >30 years old so... not bad.

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

that was the intent, to see how a 30 yr old girl could hang with the new kids.

[@woodiemarv]

The Amiga was truly ahead of its time. It fought outside of its weight class.

[@z1g]

Thanks for the fun video. So the A2000 with the Vampire v2 is ECS Denise and the Pi's are AGA Lisa it looks? Do they have the AGA chipset in the Vampire core yet or is that for the V4 only?

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

No 2000’s are aga. The v4 is a self contained aga unit

[@z1g]

@@ChrisEdwardsRestoration Thanks! So the stock A2000 is ECS Denise, but with the Vampire V2 you can have AGA?

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

@@z1g with the core3 alpha video that i did here kzbin.info/www/bejne/aZubfHpoZ7GtsJI and the Femu based fpu for .080 yes. and you can still get this. it is ALPHA level, meaning not everything works, but it turns my A2000 here in sysinfo to a aga 1200

[@z1g]

@@ChrisEdwardsRestoration Thank you, that is exactly the information I was looking for. I find so many things when searching articles and blogs and these people don't but dates on them so I have no idea if they are 1 year old, 2 years old, current etc..

[@samueldevulder]

@@z1g Apparently, the team has more or less dropped working on v2 in favor of v4 (bigger fpga). v2 are now condidered end of life, and receive little support. So I wouldn’t consider having AGA in a v2 any soon. This is not their plan. Core3 alpha won’t have updates.

[@ernestuz]

Using the MMU is probably lowering the PI3 emulation speed.

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

not really

[@Pracedru]

My first Amiga was a 2000.

[@zedmanatutube]

I use mister for amiga with original 10804s monitor its fantastic and lagless

[@marquisor]

Best solution regarding emulation / Amiga substitution. IMHO.

[@another3997]

@@marquisor "Best" is a very subjective term. I'm not knocking the Mister, it seems like a good product. But current versions of Mister won't win any speed records, and it isn't cheap. Nor is it widely available. Just like software emulation, FPGAs depend on the quality and accuracy of the underlying code, and the continued development and support of developers. In such a small, niche market, that isn't guaranteed.

[@marquisor]

@@another3997 of course, subjective. But for me and my original Hardware and Emulation experience in decades! on many different platforms PC Windows, Linux, RPi, PS3, Xbox, Dreamcast, also digging into details with OG Hardware + OSSC Scaler, CRT screens on real hardware and emus, input latency of different USB/PS2 inputs etc. I'm a perfectionist regarding this topic(s). And MiSTer is the best so far without any/not much hassle. Think of configuring emulators to get smooth scrolling, synced and low latency input. And f.e. regarding Amiga Elite 2 and Indianapolis 500 performance is sufficient of the Minimig core (for me).

[@tiannaumann]

If I was going to choose hardware emulation (FPGA) over a purely software envrionment, I'd always choose an FPGA. The argument that the 68080 isn't a 'real' processor seems silly when you consider a 68010, 68020, 68030 or 68040 isn't 100% compatible with a 68000 (hence the need for WHDLOAD and having kickstart + relocator files in devs: kickstarts). UAE is an impressive achievement, and in the end, it's preference, if the layman can't tell the difference with the overall experience then they should for sure stick with the cheaper Raspberry Pi.

[@Promilus1984]

It's about how you define a processor (chip) or processor (functionality). 68080 isn't a chip but it has functionality of a CPU when powered up and configuration loaded onto FPGA. And also - there's no hardware emulation regarding 68080 - it's designed base-up as a softcore. All it does emulate is 68000 bus to communicate with amiga hardware. And also AGA capabilities (ide included). Other than those there's no emulation, it is just implementation of designed features.

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

@@Promilus1984 the Furia 600 is a SOC also, exept it uses a Xilinx soc which is such more a pain in the rear to flash. (i just did it)

[@Promilus1984]

@@ChrisEdwardsRestoration Well I don't know about that, always thought it has 68882 fpu and 68ec020 cpu. And maybe XC95144XL CPLD from xilinx as glue logic. In that configuration it's something very different from Vampire. AFAIK the only FPGA-based Amiga accelerator to date is Vampire (V1 from Igor alone and V2 from Apollo Team - while actually hw design probably still was Igor's), V4 was going to be accelerator as well but, yeah, that's what you get from choosing 77k LE FPGA. Gunnar once said pretty buffed up 68k takes up around 10-12k LE ;) TG68 took around 4k (that's why it fit into 5k LE FPGA of V1 but still there was a room for improvement as we know phoenix core did break the performance roof still managing to fit in that fairly small fpga). I know Mike Stirling is trying to make something like V1 but better and so will I when my devel boards finally arrive.

[@valenrn8657]

FPGA is not emulation when it's hardware description language (HDL) is similar to ASIC HDL. FPGA is used before ASIC.

[@vresi]

@@valenrn8657 Then a CPU isn't an emulator, either. This new, needless debate is silly. The Vampire (stand-alone) or MiSTer is an emulator for the same reason a Pi is; it emulates. If it isn't a real Amiga, it's a device mimicking, simulating or... emulating one. This is just people trying to make FPGA the 'kEwL' way to, well, emulate Amiga. It's pure snobbery. If FPGA devices were priced at the same range as mini computers such as Raspberry's, no-one would bat an eye calling the MiSTer an emulator.

[@glenndoiron9317]

"The Pi4 blows the vampire out of the water in performance", after demonstrating that it improves from 30fps to 32fps in an actual application? Might have wanted to slip in the term "synthetic" somewhere.

[@fofiko]

He fucked up the benchmark because he didn't use RTG when testing UAE and he probably also had the JIT off. He's a bit clueless like that. Run it yourself and you'll see UAE getting 200+ FPS on 320x256 16bit and 30+ FPS on 1024x768 16bit (which looks amazing). These are numbers that the vampire can't touch period. It can only do lowres 8bit which looks like shit.

[@IntenseGrid]

Maybe this needs an update now that Pimiga 2.0 came out, and so did the PiStorm, especially emu68 on a A600(faster chip?).

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

Sure! Good idea

[@Kppot]

The idea is that Vampire ran Quake with RTG mode while Pi4 did it AGA, so one more (like 30%) performance increase for Pi4.

[@martinclark1411]

tried adding my old workbench into this via f12 and it wont even boot, and to test went back to the pimiga drives again through f12 and it wouldnt either, but a reboot works without issue with pimiga, any idea why

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

did you copy your drive to the linux partitions? did you uncheck bootable, or are you trying to replace pimiga w your dh0:?

[@martinclark1411]

@@ChrisEdwardsRestoration copied to the same partitions as pimiga, and trying to replace pimiga with my dh0:

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

@@martinclark1411 well sorry your having problems, this is outside of what i built it for.

[@GeoNeilUK]

I wonder how good a Raspberry Pi would be ar tunning RISC OS compared to an OG Archimedes. I do know there was a build of RISC OS for the Pi but this was back in the days of the Pi2. Not usre if the Pi3 or Pi4 can even run it.

[@Jossandoval]

At least in the Risc OS Open website they have an image for Raspberry Pi Zero to 4 including modules, dated 2020-10-22 (this message was written in 2020-11-19), and they also have a beta imaged last dated 2020-11-15.

[@FuZZbaLLbee]

Now run the emulator on a i9 PC. I wonder if the drugstore number will still fit in the GUI 😋 Although multiple cores might not matter for WinUAE

[@jensdroessler3575]

Drugstore? Yeah, why not. But I don‘t think the Amiga knows their number...

[@FuZZbaLLbee]

Jens Droessler LOL 😂 that should have been “Drystones”. But drugstore could also be useful if the Amiga has a virus.

[@stefanobriccolani3407]

Sysinfo gives totally wrong results on JIT emulation. JIT changes the sysinfo tests and reduce the number of processor instructions. So when you test on vampire the same sysinfo test that takes, like 6 instructions you are testing against 1 instruction if JIT is activated

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

Thats why i stated i dont know what numbers are what

[@tiannaumann]

Not being rhetorical, but are we to assume any synthetic benchmarks in AIBB are going to be suspect as well?

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

@@tiannaumann true, i have no clue as to what is more accurate on new hardware, the programs were written long before pi's came out, so that is why i stated in the desc "*note- these are my test, there are a thousand ways to do them, and Amiga people have many thoughts and opinions, dont flame, just my runs and no way make or break the case for any , i do this for fun and love them all , hope you can to. ENJOY!~ thanks for watching!"

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

12:48

[@gnabgib1876]

Makes me wonder about the ryzen zen 3 vs vampire in actual application benchmarks

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

considering thats a new processor im sure it will do better. not bad for a 25 yr old computer

[@gnabgib1876]

@@ChrisEdwardsRestoration arm chips are way slower then x86 any zen 3 ryzen chips have a 32mb l3 cache per core complex. The cache alone with amiga software should be impressive

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

@@gnabgib1876 i was stating Ryzen will do better, arm kinda still poo imho

[@woodiemarv]

Would not be fair comparison and a waste of resources. Especially after what a pi4 did

[@123DarkG123]

Nice comparation Chris........ so I went and tried my AMD with a lot of cores bla bla bla, run WinUAE and SysInfo, MIPs 442.69. So, I dont trust that Sysinfo too much because I dont think a Rpi4 is faster than my new CPU......... or maybe we are reaching a point where even emulated our Amiga cant go faster ??? Did you try on your computer, PC or MAC ?

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

I run both win10/winuae and fsuae on the mac side. My basement pc is old poo but still does ok i mainly use it just for copying files or making cf cards for the real boxes

[@AmitenTV]

hi bud , belive or not pi4 its faster emulating Amiga than your and mine AMD .... ARM rulez, why? not idea probably winuae.... not the cpu , saludos santi

[@123DarkG123]

@@ChrisEdwardsRestoration Ohhh... Thanks Chris, I just was wondering if you tested it against any new computer with FSUAE, WinUAE, etc........... because over 4xx MIPs on Sysinfo is just wrong :) but I know you know that already.

[@123DarkG123]

@@AmitenTV Heyyy.... well, for me the best emulator is not Pi or WinUAE, is MorphOS :) and this OS kills Rpi4 out of the water. Tested using Lightwave 5 with FP. Still PowerPCs are a better choice and those MacMini are not too expensive. Yes, I know, you have to buy MorphOS but, is good, so we can support them.

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

@@123DarkG123 I have MorphOS also and yes it runs really really good, but the cost to get a great G5 and the software licensed is more than the 35 or 50 for a pi. there are many options around, this was the one that i did. like everything in the amiga community, no matter what you do , everyone has 99 different ways and opinions, thats why in the description of the video that no one reads, i stated that these tests were my own and im sure theres a thousand ways to do them .

[@SammYLightfooD]

Just an idea: run demos that were written for 68060 on it and compare.

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

well most of those were aga

[@maartenc6099]

I am thinking about the vampire V4 stand-alone. But after watching your video I think I will go for the new raspberry pi 400. I could go for a real amiga but think that road will be very expensive.

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

go for the pi4,. its a great start, then see my video on Pimiga

[@maartenc6099]

@@ChrisEdwardsRestoration I have a pi400 and PiMiga runs great on it. Love it very much. I have a 21:9 monitor and do not know if the amiga-os can be set on this resolution (2560x1080). But in 1920x1080 it works with black side bars. And it works great. And it is very cheap. Now I need to know how to setup Amiga OS myself and pimp it the way I want it. Used to have an amiga 500 but this is something totaly new.

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

Well we are working on 1.4 now x64 and usb and more. Stay tuned

[@OptimusMonk01]

@@ChrisEdwardsRestoration 1.4 of what

[@rs2klee]

Did you managed to over clock the pi4 at all ?

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

no

[@indiosse]

how do i get the quake folder off the pimiga 1.5 .img file cant figure it out, just have windows 10 here, can i use a linux mounter or something

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

like delete it ?

[@hanshansen2398]

LinuxReader" from DiskInternals! Easy to use. Mount "LINUX" img and copy the fieles out

[@judgewest2000]

I've just thought of a very practical reason why you should probably use a Rasberry PI or other emulation over real hardware. You don't have to bother with all that switching between monitors depending on the mode i.e. native or hdmi.

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

Indeed. I do have a gvp spectrum that has a passthrough but the rtg of the vampire surpasses it so its useless for that. On a general amiga it uses the same monitor though

[@judgewest2000]

@@ChrisEdwardsRestoration BTW loved the video - gives me some real inspiration to get my equipment together again

[@GeoNeilUK]

I wonder if it's possible to use a Raspberry Pi - even a Compute Module - as an Amiga acclelerator?

[@JohnnyReb1976]

Some guy is on it, I've seen it on FB.

[@technoidse]

github.com/captain-amygdala/pistorm

[@datashed]

I have that exact under-monitor power console.

[@davidnickel3949]

omg i remember this app. had wb3.1 on a 500 and had a a1200 from uk at one point

[@davidnickel3949]

jr comm for all bbs guys out there in south jersey.

[@johnwiesen4440]

I have one A 500+ and two A1200s. I use them. I like them all have the floppy disk drives in them. I have got them to out put on new LCD displays. I still get bits for them 68030 cards a ACA 500+ now with X-Surf-500 in it. I have pur a FPU on my ACA 1233n card. I have a Pi4 and a DE10 Nano. It isvery good to see that new bits come out for the Amigas so they can live on for may years to come. The thing makes the Vampire cost a lot it that they are custom made one at a time and a lot of time has gone it to them, on the software side.

[@another3997]

The biggest problem with original Amiga hardware is the dwindling supply of working motherboards and custom chips. Just like with other classic computers, finding replacements can be difficult, expensive or even impossible. Luckily, at the moment, the Amiga has a number of people making new alternatives, but that may no always be so. Thankfully, FPGA and software emulators are comparatively cheap.

[@smiljanicn]

Do you run Coffin OS on Pi?

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

you can with some editing, but the pi4 is running Pimiga lockdown edition, check my prev video on it. the Pi3 is running Amibian with a standard workbench build, both in my previous videos.

[@Solskogen]

I got 80fps with the Pi4 using the latest and greatest amiberry, running Manjaro ARM (64bit) as the underlying OS.

[@rkadowns]

Isn't Amiberry a 32 bit program?

[@Solskogen]

@@rkadowns Nope. It even performance better on 64bit.

[@alexanderwingeskog758]

I really want to rescue my old Amiga1200 (or actually just the data on my 2 3.5 inch drives, yes they would not fit into the A1200 :-). Or maybe (just maybe) setup a Pie 4 UAE system. But I do wonder about the Micro SD cards, all my cards (from 2 GB to 32 GB, 10-15 in total) have failed somehow in different things like Video cameras, mobile phones, and tablets. They last about 4-5 months then they can't be recognized, cant be formatted or just totally corrupt. And I never touch them just inserted them once until they just quit working... So If I'm ever going to do something like this I need some form av backupsystem (a NAS with some RAID level), but then again maybe you could network boot your system directly from the NAS (Pie 4 has Gigabit ethernet I guess) and just skip the SD card thing... hmm... just some random thoughts... All my SCSI drives on my A500 never failed, every harddrive on my A1200 (a couple of 2.5 inch and a couple of 3.5 inch) never failed.. But every SD card I ever owned has failed me... A lot of my USB drives also btw... scary stuff...

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

SD /CF and micro SD cards are not meant for the high demand of read/write that any computer would put on them, i lose drives all the time, there are 44Pin IDE SSD's on Amazon, pretty cheap too, and they are hard disks. and can take the beating.

[@alexanderwingeskog758]

@@ChrisEdwardsRestoration Sounds perfect! For a good Amiga setup I would guess you only need 32/64 Gigabyte drive, my A1200 had 200 MB in total (one 120 MB and one 80 MB) with XPK maybe doubling the amount of data stored so even 1 GB would almost be overkill... So maybe a Pie 4 then... still need my Amiga 1200 up and running though, as I remember it last time the power supply did not really wanted to run my 2 3.5" inch drives and that was the biggest problem.... I have some older PC/AT PSU's that I could convert maybe... then I need to find my old PCMCIA Ethernet card... hmm... Might be a fun project! When all the data is backed-up I can maybe restore my Amiga1200 (and put a SSD into that) with my 68030/68882) and standard power...

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

@@alexanderwingeskog758 i ordered a power supply from ebay, its higher wattage and has the normal 500/600/1200 plug, its the black one seen in my videos on the 500 and 600/1200's it was 40$ think from poland or something, took a few weeks to get to me in the States, but works great

[@alexanderwingeskog758]

@@ChrisEdwardsRestoration That is just awesome! Many many thanks! I think that will be the first thing I'll buy to get my Amiga up and running as it was when I left it! Then I can copy all the data thru FTP or setting up SAMBA so at least I have it backed-up (8 years of homemade programs, pictures/anim, music and more... would be nice to revisit everything again... and show my son what I did in the past)... Again! you have been most helpful! and many many thanks!

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

I did a video on smb mounter too great way to make smb easy on an amiga

[@jigsey.]

I'm thinking of getting a p4 or should I pay extra for the vampire 4 stand alone

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

59 or 599, your call

[@jigsey.]

@@ChrisEdwardsRestoration I know 😂😂 or the pi 400 I'm edging towards that

[@lg.bus114-Mario.]

Pi4 ,work’s great.

[@MrRobbyvent]

Vampire's price is totally unacceptable

[@Jossandoval]

Meh, is the labor of love of two dudes that only targets the small (comparative) numbers of people still maintaining Amiga computers, not a modern board mass built for the educational market of basically the entire world. Still not something that I would buy, but the price is entirely understandable under those circumstances.

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

And only one toaster oven

[@davidste60]

@Mr Guru If they do that there will be clones on the market before the second batch goes on sale, and they will then get nothing.

[@AncientShinrinYoku]

I understand the concept, yet you are comparing apples to oranges in here. Makes little sense to compare modern PC emulating Amiga, with actual Amiga hardware. Besides those benchmark numbers are not accurate anyway, even on a real hardware. Quake FPS demo is much more useful. A fair comparison would be Minimig or MiSTer vs Vampire. This video is interesting in case you want to compare Amiga EXPERIENCE, or simply gaming performance.

[@kingcognito]

I don’t understand what you’re saying - or do you think Vampire is ”actual Amiga hardware”?

[@vertigoz]

Quake can it be due to a lack of fpu?

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

dont know, settings the same on both 3b+ and 4B , just didnt like it.idk why.

[@ChuckyGang]

vampire have a "fpu" it doesn't do calculations correct but it does have one

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

@@ChuckyGang i think he meant the pi3, they ll have FPU, Vamp no MMU, pi does emulate one.

[@garyhenry7193]

I dont know why anybody would pay silly money any more for Amiga addons. I have 3 Amigas but I use Pi4 emulation, it's so much faster and cheaper.

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

i do because i love the original stuff

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

wahre Worte

[@chuxxsss]

Your OS workbench looks sad. My old A1200T looks beautiful compared to the icons on your screen.

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

I have many that are Kickass. When you have 16 amigas its hard To pimp them all out. Plus it gives me Something to do

[@wishusknight3009]

3b+ needed128 mb ram for quake.

[@trendyfunandgames4759]

just ran the same demo on my pi4 2gb got 74.34 FPS!

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

Alot can happen in a year. Pi400 can run the demo in like 9 seconds now

[@indiosse]

@@ChrisEdwardsRestoration blimey is it firmware related ? i thought pi400 was just a pi4b in a case ? any tips to improve performance?

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

Overclock it

[@ChadEssley]

No serial or parallel devices on RPI emulation. No classic sound samplers, midi, video grabbers...etc.

[@glennbojones777]

What!!!? Please tell me this is not the case I wanted to use my samplers

[@CartoonMonkeyStudio]

@@glennbojones777 There's no parallel port interface for the PI, nothing in any known Amiga emulator that emulates it. Best bet is buy a real Amiga 1200, and stick a nice accelerator in it if you need full actual Amiga compatibility. Not even the Vampire FPGA standalone machines have parallel ports. Sorry man! You can use the software, but not use classic physical audio or video samplers that connected to that physical port.

[@glennbojones777]

@@CartoonMonkeyStudio thanks for that heads up before I wasted my time on the Pistorm, I will have to set my sights to the Tf1230/60.

[@glennbojones777]

@@CartoonMonkeyStudio soI this is interesting , I just spoke with a local Amiga user who told me his Plipbox works with EMU68 and Pistorm on the parallel port?

[@CartoonMonkeyStudio]

@@glennbojones777 I don't know anything about this. I would certainly like to see that in action. First I've ever heard of it. That would be very cool if it worked.

[@SM-sk1sm]

remember only the Amiga can true real-time multi task...classic that is with oses before 2002. Plus, PPc, and RISC DOES beat the vampire hands down. NEED TO MAKE a RISC one.I might add that the ocs chip set does 12 bit or 32,768 colors all at once per each output of rgb pcs are only 8bit per each output of vga. The thumb of the amigas , and other details of the games like these where always better on classic amigas. The classic Amigas could do 32octaves or channels per each bit , but really there are only 16 .. the music world just doubles up on them.. The vampire site is so misleading.. 128bit colors ... fps is ,and cant be over35 fps .. ,and use same areas to explain this . Plus, sometimes u nay only need 5 fps.- somebody needs to tell them this Im done with it. pfft proof amiga forver sucks

Que pena tengo la 2000 pero el gobierno con impuestos y estupideces me impide conseguir una vampire

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

usar una tarjeta de crédito en vivo por el momento!

[@emmap4339]

ok so the vampire gets tons of power and fps are high, so what? Are you saving times rendering scenes in lightwave? Because killing or getting killed in quake at 25 fps or 500 fps turns you in both cases as a killing or killed soldier so from a psychological point of view that the same: you are stuck on a chair in front of a screen trying to survive while a war simulator turns your subconscious to become a soldier, same story since the 8 bits machines and all war games published on them. Is there any useful reasons to get faster speeds? I have a mac from 2014 with SSD drive and just 4GB ram non expendable for almost 4 years and everything run smooth, why putting more money into anything else? I had 2 amigas, the 500 and 1200, was very happy with them but had to move because of work, found after various PC that the Mac is great and fun. What is the real difference and benefits to use an Amiga in 2021?

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

its a hobby , everyone has them, just like your opinions. We do it because we love it.

[@lg.bus114-Mario.]

Hahah why You r so sad ? , just play amiga ;) and be happy.

[@Woot007]

Why did some people buy accelerator/gfx cards back then? Because for some a faster workbench was better for them and being able to play games like Genetic Species prolly the best FPS for the Amiga. And being able to play mp3s yes that was a big thing on the amy in the late 90s as well. But yea if you only wanted to play superfrog and didnt bother much with workbench a Amiga 500/1200 was fine :)

[@AmitenTV]

friend, thanks for the video, first of all do not take me wrong for my opinion about your vs, the idea is great but the execution, catastrophic and wrong, the first thing for a fair assessment you must use the same OS in the different machines thing you don't do or it doesn't seem like it, the coffin that you seem to use in the raspberrys seems to be working with the picasso drivers of the vampire that reduce performance by 50 or more in the pi, you should remove everything related to saga from the root -vampire rtg stuff and put fresh drivers on pi if you use coffin os there.... i imagine you dont do it due to your sysinfo results on pi3 and 4, pi3 is about 3 times faster than vampire or more, doing it well you must have about 450 mips, the pi4 is 6 times or faster than a vampire over 600 to 900 mips, I will make a video on my channel showing the same thing that you have done but correctly and using coffin OS correctly in all tests . greetings and thanks again for your video Amiga4ever!

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

i agree, but in my desc i stated "*note- these are my test, there are a thousand ways to do them, and Amiga people have many thoughts and opinions, dont flame, just my runs and no way make or break the case for any , i do this for fun and love them all , hope you can to. ENJOY!~ thanks for watching!"

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

12:48

[@AmitenTV]

@@ChrisEdwardsRestoration kzbin.info/www/bejne/o5LGcml3jdB-rqM

[@AlynnaTrypnotk]

The Pi4 does not "smoke the vampire", the JIT compiler optimizes out the instructions that are part of the benchmark. The Pi4 result is meaningless for the purpose of finding out how fast it will actually run Amiga software.

[@Kppot]

it IS useful for how fast it may run games

[@AlynnaTrypnotk]

@@Kppot Any emulator or system that emulate a 14mhz 68020 can play 99.9% of the games ever made for an Amiga. Faster than that doesn't matter. If one just wants to play Amiga games, a raspberry pi is fine. Those who want actual performance are going to go for a Vampire.

[@fofiko]

@@AlynnaTrypnotk You don't know what you're talking about. Those who want performance will go for UAE period. It obliterates the vampire even on a raspi 4. Try playing Quake on 68020 and tell me faster than that doesn't matter. If it doesn't matter, why would anyone buy the vampire? Get your logic straight. UAE is the king of Amiga performance and the vampire is simply orders of magnitude slower. That's a fact.

[@valenrn8657]

Run something like Lightwave or Cinema4D v4 for the benchmark.

[@NozomuYume]

The JIT compiler will also optimize any core loop in whatever application you're running. The only thing it will be slow at is run-once code and self-modifying code. Obviously a simple dhrystone loop is the best-case scenario for it, but the JIT core on the Pi4 will still smoke the Vampire in pretty much every situation.

[@mariotazo2860]

AMIGA Vampire 080 is better

[@jarisipilainen3875]

remember that when buy vampire. they could do so much faster. PI is emulating it all.and you did not have all maxed on pi lol. and it also depend on emulator build. PI is hreat for emulating old machines,but it wont run desktop good. like linux not good in desktop its best on server and console

[@janialander414]

My Linux desktop machine and laptop disagrees on linux not being good in desktop... :p

[@janialander414]

@Mr Guru Pi4 is probably faster than my oldest Linux running laptop, Lenovo T60...at least it has more memory than that old Lenovo...

[@korsandede4909]

I am using Raspberry Pi 4 4GB I installed Twister OS, it is very fast and it works great.

[@troyraines7160]

What? Makes no sense you clearly have no knowledge of Linux. There are many great everyday desktop Linux distros.

[@jarisipilainen3875]

@@troyraines7160 yes i told pc do it faster mrans linux too.i told vsmpire is slow they could make it faster and not next year faster same price

[@mightwilder]

pi4 slow as hell buy garage sale office x86 pc

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

Not the purpose of this video

[@another3997]

Garage sale office x86 pc slow as hell, buy a brand new top end gaming pc. But that might be slow compared to some high end server pc's, so buy one of each. Compare all four devices to see how much power they consume, how much room they take up, how noisy they are and how many gpio pins you can attach 1000s of projects to. Then try fitting them in your pocket. Horses for courses. 🙄

[@wildrover1826]

Dont understand the point of the video.

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

To see how a 30 yr old Amiga w a vampire can hang to 2019-2020 technology

[@Promilus1984]

@@ChrisEdwardsRestoration so... 30yr old amiga basically acting as soundcard and keyboard + decade (actually ~13yrs) old tech (cyclone III) vs most recent tech emulating that old one in software? Yeah... Amiga with PCI slots and pseudo SharkPPC (so... original Sonnet Crescendo 7200 + open source "hack" to make it work on amiga as PPC accelerator) does pretty nice as well.

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

@@Promilus1984 incorrect, core2x vampires use the Amiga chipset, it only recreates the cpu and rtg , and it has ram, just like a "old" accelerator, only Core3 (which was alpha only see my other proof of concept video) and V4SA are full recreations of all which would suit your comment,

[@Promilus1984]

@@ChrisEdwardsRestoration yeah, right, my bad.

[@stefanobianchini8217]

bla bla bla amiga super potente.. bla bla bla... fai girare un gioco che girava sui PC del 1996.

[@ScimmiaDigitale]

beh, dal 96 in poi, essendo amiga in eof come piattaforma hw nessuno ci ha programmato giochi nuovi, tu che dici?

[@stefanobianchini8217]

@@ScimmiaDigitale quindi l'utilità di tutto sto casino di update hardware per cosa? lasciatelo nella tomba

[@mworld]

Steam: Quake 1 (original) `timedemo demo1` 0.5 seconds 2072.1 fps Modern systems be like: LOL benchnt> .\dhry1ont.exe Dhrystones per Second: 37611500 VAX MIPS rating = 21406.66 And that's only one thread.

[@ChrisEdwardsRestoration]

this was a comparison of 30 year old stuff