Christian Presuppositional Apologist Explains Presuppositional Apologetics

PMars (Christian Presuppositionalist) teaches us about Christian Presuppositional Apologetics. This was recorded during today's episode of the Theist Helpline.
‪@planetpeterson2824‬ ‪@AmyNewman‬ ‪@RandolfRichardson‬
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#religion #christianity #islam #metaphysics #buddhism #christianphilosophy #christian #islamic #metaphysical #morality #moral #ethics #kalam #philosophy #physics #science #quantumphysics #epistemology #ontology
Greg Bahnsen, Cornelius Van Til, Presuppositionalist, Presuppositionalism, Presuppositional Apologetics, Kalam Cosmological Argument, Science, Agnostic, Agnosticism, Epistemology, Ontology, Physics, Quantum Physics, Necessary Being, Necessary Existence

[@CharlesB-NGNM]

As a triune being, Jesus will only ride a tricycle.

[@davids11131113]

😂

[@realBreakfasttacos]

This is correct!

[@dbt5224]

As he is only 1 part of the trinity, shouldn’t it be a unicycle?

[@CharlesB-NGNM]

@@dbt5224 There are church fathers who say that it must be a three seat tandem bike. Unicyclists are a small fringe sect.

[@jcal0482]

lol

[@davids11131113]

Well the TAG argument is a way to ASSERT ‘god’ exists, there’s a bunch of premises that say something must exist, and concludes with ‘and we call this ‘god’. Ok that’s not proof of anything, I could just conclude ‘and we call this ‘StaPuft marshmallow man’ and be just as correct.

[@realBreakfasttacos]

I was trying to get him to put the argument in side chat but he didn't want to do it.

[@davids11131113]

@@realBreakfasttacos Sounds unsurprising. I’d say TAG is way more demonstrably concluded with ‘we call this ‘energy’, at least we know that exists.

[@realBreakfasttacos]

@@davids11131113 They make logic leaps to attempt to ground out in god. It is an abstract concept though so they can't actually ground it because a metaphysical grounding would have to be concrete. I am with you, I do not know how they would not ground out in energy or the quantum field or whatever fundamental aspect of reality.

[@Detson404]

“Ray, when someone asks you if you’re a god, you say YES!”

[@cxa24]

Your 'savior' cant hurt me

[@realBreakfasttacos]

Good!

[@justincapable]

I expected the jingle from Paulogia when PMars basically stated ... because the Bible tells me so.

[@realBreakfasttacos]

LOL

[@BarrySchanz]

This is an example of how not to argue without using philosophical terms. No idea how this would help anyone new to transcendentals.

[@realBreakfasttacos]

LOL

[@Detson404]

It’s not meant to be clear, it’s meant to confuse and befuddle and to reassure insecure Christians that their faith is good and smart, actually.

[@punnet2]

_"...They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them..."_ -- Mk 16 Any christians want to empirically test this?

[@jamierichardson7683]

And not their own snakes

[@realBreakfasttacos]

Let's not recommend that!

[@ianchisholm5756]

Kent Hovind met a snake recently. It did not go well for him. Make of that what you will.

[@bertthompson4748]

They already do that in lots of evangelical churches, specifically ones in the south. Pentacostal churches mostly

[@chrispysaid]

man I really hate when people interrupt others when they clearly have the floor to speak

[@realBreakfasttacos]

Right!

[@Bubblewench42]

It's enjoyable to hear actual discussions without all the meta crap, thanks for sharing

[@realBreakfasttacos]

I got you!

[@w4rsh1p]

How does he read the Bible without a prior understanding of how books are written?

[@realBreakfasttacos]

Great question!

[@w4rsh1p]

@@realBreakfasttacos It's a question I asked to a Christian chat as a presuppositional atheist maybe 3 years ago, but they immediately banned me. Guess it struck a chord.

[@russellsteapot8779]

It’s kind of worrying that these internet presuppers don’t even know their own argument. Pmars lays out a kind of abductive argument (an IBE) at around 3.40, but an inference to the best explanation will NEVER get you to *necessity*, as any conclusion you arrive at from an IBE will only establish *likelihood*. That is NOT the presupper’s claim, so this is just a rambling display of colossal ignorance about what presup is supposed to do! Lolz. 😂

[@realBreakfasttacos]

Great point!

[@w4rsh1p]

PMars could throw a million evidences for other gods and he’d still say naturalism explains all other religions better than supernaturalism. All he’s doing is special pleading. 🥺

[@realBreakfasttacos]

Correct!

[@GoriusMaximus]

Is there anything that can’t be “proven” true with presupposition, even if it’s demonstrably false?

[@GoriusMaximus]

Also, reality exists because the bible says it does, but the devil doesn’t exist even though the bible says he does. It seems ridiculous to make presuppositions based on a book that he himself believes is fallible.

[@jamierichardson7683]

Why are people saying christian like it means one standard view? Weird

[@realBreakfasttacos]

Delusion

[@Detson404]

These people made up this thing called “the Christian worldview” because it helps hide the fact that what they really mean is “a bunch of things that I’m presupposing.”

[@user-qm4ev6jb7d]

What's worse, they consider "non-christian" to be one standard view too!

[@Qzopr1]

This argument cements my conviction. There's only one truth claim: There's no god. That was so pathetic it made me cringe (again).

[@realBreakfasttacos]

Great point!

[@ryanremembers]

Or, everything is God.

[@alanrosenthal6323]

Let me summarize this apologist - I believe I'm right therefore you are wrong. That's all he had to say.

[@realBreakfasttacos]

Correct!

[@RandolfRichardson]

This was funny. I also kidn of feel sorry for PMars because I get the feeling that he's lost and that his ideas about Christianity are keeping him from finding himself.

[@realBreakfasttacos]

Yes, he is lost Randolf!

[@dustintaub]

You never know when Taco is going to pop in with his atheistist argument. Do you have a good acronym for it yet, Taco? Naturalistic Atheistic Reality aka NAR or a NARgument

[@realBreakfasttacos]

Tango

[@absofjelly]

Why does it have to be the Christian world view?

[@realBreakfasttacos]

Incredulity

[@user-bb3ej3iv9y]

Ah the TAG, God exists or God doesn't exist. God's existence doesn't account for the laws of logic (because you must assume such laws are true, so you're begging the question). Therefor God doesn't exist.

[@realBreakfasttacos]

Great point!