Christianity Isn't Just About Signs and Wonders.

Bethel Church in Redding, California, is becoming a huge influence in Christian culture. Self-proclaimed Apostle of Bethel, Bill Johnson, teaches what's called the 7 Mountain Mandate and the Five-Fold Ministry, which is important in the signs and wonders movement that Bethel Church is known for. What exactly is this. and where should we have theological dealbreakers in this area?
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[@dalemancillas790]

This was taught in a church I was serving in. We had joined with several churches in our area to " take authority" of our region. Prophesy and "spiritual parents " were emphasized heavily by the "Apostle" of our Church. Thankfully, God did not allow this Church to succeed. I am on the path to healing, it has taken years to unravel all the lies. Melissa has helped me greatly with her videos. Thank you!

[@SebastianOsborn]

Melissa, I wanted to ask you about a topic that seems to be receiving no attention. I've noticed a concerning trend of Hollywood in recent years where they keep putting out movies with anti-heroes, like Deadpool, Venom, Star Wars Acolyte, and now Agatha All Along (that one's even worse because it's about witches). It seems like our culture is embracing the "I'm not a hero but I can still do good things mindset", and while none of us are good ourselves (only God is good within us and we do good things in His name), it just feels like culture is low-key celebrating wickedness using villainous characters that they want to look up to. I feel like this will only get worse. Soon enough, in Star Wars, the Sith will be the "good guys" and the Jedi will be the "bad guys". This all goes back to that verse saying good will be considered evil and evil will be considered good. I wish someone would talk about this trend and help spread the conversation about it more. Thanks Melissa!

[@tricia811]

Little Light Studios has lots of videos !

[@marymorris6897]

You are so right. They love evil and want other people to also. Our whole culture is being turned upside down and there really isn't anything we can do about it. In time God will intervene. That will be quite the day.

[@nervousdorito3696]

This is so interesting! Thank you for writing this down. I’ve noticed this trend too but hadn’t connected it biblically in my head at all- that’s crazy!

[@kerenwilliams7775]

I can't wrap my head around this concept. How can super heroes be the good guys when they have their own evil larceny lurking within them. How are they any different than the bad guys?

[@SaccharineHearts]

You are so correct, this was my sentiment with 2019 Joker or even Dahmer, they try to humanize evil so much that we start identifying with IT rather than our father and his perfect love

[@marisa5359]

This was the teaching that spurred me researching and finally opened my eyes to the dangers of hypercharismatic church I grew up in. So grateful to be out of that. Thanks for sharing about this.

[@traceyferreira8042]

My journey has been an interesting one. I began to look into the new age out of concern for a family member, and I wanted to understand what it was. Your channel was especially helpful Melissa, because you had had your feet in both church and new age. I needed to know what was God and what He wasn’t. This in turn opened up the door to nar because of its ties to new age, and so I began to research this movement. My knowledge just branched out, but the real understanding of the Truth came because I thoroughly read the Bible with the same intent. Who was God? What is from Him, and what is not? The bible lays it all out when it is read in context and with the desire to seek Him with all your heart. So, thank you.

[@maryannrodriguez9018]

I love the True Word of God, We were Chosen By Him,I love you my Sister Melissa, Your called and chosen.

[@savedbyHisGrace7752]

Melissa, this is going deep to center field ⚾️... great topic and thank you to all three for coming with great attention for others and those who follow Bethel.

[@TheCountofToulouse]

Happy you made this video. The NAR has SO much in common with what JESUS was fighting. The things the LORD said about prayer in particular are concrete. "When you pray, pray like this". Then he goes on to rebuke the people who pray in public, calling their acts out as works of pride, that they LOVE to be SEEN doing it. How in the WORLD did things get like this? Most modern churches are SO apostate, SO in error and fruitless that I'm actually scared of what will come next.

[@Vulcaneer900]

Years ago God forced me to go to OCC, (Benny Hin's church) I protesed many times but God demanded I go. One night Hinn was away, and this so-called leaded came to preach a message. (Rodney Howard-Brown) He started out with his message but then started chuckling. Then got even more tickled, and broke out into a full-faced belly laugh. It was obvious this was Not God. It was offensive. Why would God give you a message to preach, and then distract away from that message. I was standing there is a state of confusion, and God spoke to me and said, "This is not me," And it was as if he turn to walk out of the church, me following close behind. If you do not have the Holy Spirit in you to lead you you can't help but be deceived with this nonsense. What could happen next.? What if they start to preach, "You have to sacrifice and animal to be "Fully Saved".?

[@rejugeorge2863]

Actually, the people that came against Jesus were against the signs and wonders He was performing! Read the Bible! 😅 They couldn’t stand the following He was getting as He healed and fed them supernaturally. So this is opposite to your argument.

[@TheCountofToulouse]

@@rejugeorge2863 It's like you didn't read the Bible...or you read the "passion translation".

[@rejugeorge2863]

@@TheCountofToulouse Friend, I have been studying the Bible for 30 years. So please save your smart comments for someone else.

[@roniverson9282]

@@rejugeorge2863actually the Pharisees had about 6000 members and different groups of them. Some were very dedicated to casting out demons and signs and wonders. They were jealous that Jesus could do it with just a word and the demons would obey. They thus out of jealousy concluded he was doing it by sorcery. Beelzubub. Then out of jealousy due to his popularity plotted to have him killed

[@youaregodspursuit-47]

Amen... Christianity is about the day to day struggles we all deal with. And from time to time we have miracles (often times large to us and small to another person) happen in the living of our faith. Thank you Melissa fore your faithful ministry.

[@yvichenj333]

Thank you so much Melissa! This is what I needed to help address my loved ones. I wanted to confront them, but I felt I'll-equipped. Bless you and your ministry!

[@SojournerDidimus]

I read their book (Counterfeit Kingdom) this summer, a great insight!

[@Pastor_Grant]

This movement is cultic. Anyone who thinks Bill Johnson and his cronies are apostles in the same sense Paul and Peter were apostles need an intervention.

[@veritatemdicam4585]

I have quite a few friends in need of intervention. 😢 They don’t like to discuss spiritual things with me anymore.

[@mariposavioleta9007]

Agreed! Sadly know so many who don't get it and so many families torn apart by it

[@AlyssaDDani]

They aren't Apostles in any sense. Just like angels of light they try to appear as ministers of righteousness.

[@zapazap]

Who do you presume have the authority to intervene -- and how?

[@zapazap]

​@@veritatemdicam4585Who do you presume has the authority to 'intervene' with your friends?

[@MaccaBased]

Eph 4:11 also says, For the equipping of the saints for the work of the ministry... Equipping ministries, not a corporate church structure or ranks in the 21st century church.

[@zapazap]

Remember friends: Much ministry is corporate.

[@theeternalsbeliever1779]

God's ministry inherently requires a structure. Why do you think the gospel is about the Kingdom of God? Every kingdom requires a structure to do its job effectively, and God's Kingdom is no different. I'm not saying God's Church is the Kingdom because it isn't. What i AM saying though, is that God's Church has a government structure because it _will_ exist in His Kingdom, and that government structure is going to rule over everybody when Christ returns.

[@bigtobacco1098]

Jesus started his church

[@zapazap]

@@bigtobacco1098 Did I say he didn't?

[@MaccaBased]

@zapazap The kingdom of God does not require a corporation style of leadership. There is biblical leadership and there is worldly / carnal / corporate leadership.

[@susanfox6666]

Thank you all so much. I want nothing to do with NAR, which also, to me, seems money focused. They seem to think that the church is going to fix everything up so when Jesus comes for us, He will have a perfect world. Not that we shouldn't be sharing the Lord with others as He leads, but to take things over? To conquer mountains and have power and get rich? Nope.

[@davidrexford586]

What’s interesting about the whole NAR movement is it evolved from the latter rain movement that happened to occur in the same year Israel became a Nation all over again in 1948. A coincidence or more than one?

[@taylorvandermartin2946]

I appreciate you guys. I did enjoy the leaders of this movement until around 4 years ago seeing all the content pointing out the obvious things that are said and done within the movement compared to scriptures. I was clueless to the heresy for a long time. Keep up the good work

[@teshahawkins4822]

JESUS LUVS!!!!BE BLESSED!!!

[@TCLwDaniel]

I work for a faith based nonprofit that is run by people heavy in the NAR movement. Anytime I bring my concerns to what they’re teaching they respond the same way Bill does. They gaslight me and treat me like I’m spiritually immature. It’s incredibly arrogant and narcissistic.

[@danielle_0824]

That’s gotta be really hard to navigate.

[@republiccooper]

Are their lives sinful, hypocritical or abusive?

[@david42018]

This is my experience also.

[@emahpurple]

The same with me! Did they pull the spirit of religion card on you. Or the, I'm so sorry YOU don't know what we know. I'm working and praying towards leaving. But the plus in all of it is that I know what NOT to do.

[@lindasnyder1729]

@@emahpurple I was in it for 45 years and I know all that they know. You don't need to work & pray about how to leave. JUST DROP IT ALL & RUN FOR THE HILLS!!

[@dan_m7774]

Thousands of denominations and they still can not determine by sola scriptura who understands scripture correctly, so a never ending introduction of new Denomination emerge.

[@LindiKhoza]

Great discussion. Thank you.

[@mikenixon2401]

Thanks Melissa and guests. I learn much about many things I've never hear of, but it is good to be educated. Gee, they make it so difficult. Christianity, because of salvation and surrendering one's will to our Savior is a lifestyle of God's love and direction through Christ and by His Holy Spirit. Can I get an amen?

[@Vulcaneer900]

AMEN.!! We follow Him and no other. "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed." (Galatians 1:8-9)

[@victoriousjoy9338]

But many of the things Melissa says about Bethel are unfounded. I have known Bill J for 25 years. She should stick to what she does best, like her exposure of Oprah instead of picking apart godly men like Johnson!

[@terrymitchell6423]

AMEN

[@paulc7190]

Christianity is salvation, deliverance, healings, signs, wonders, miracles , and walking in the gifts of the Spirit and with the Spirit

[@shell3775]

​​@@bigtobacco1098It's all in the gospels and letters from Paul. The problem as I see it is that the congregations that have got it right are rare and few, then severely attacked and slandered, then divisions abound. Believers are encouraged to avoid the good fruit Jesus spoke of.

[@bigtobacco1098]

@shell3775 I agree with the scriptures... still waiting for examples from today and church history

[@shell3775]

@@bigtobacco1098 I already inferred that the occurrences are so rare and opposed that the examples are not publicized much. Are you asking for official historical records? There are a few books written by missionaries and ministers that describe miracles, healing and fulfilled prophecy. But who's in charge of "church history"? Have you read about George Mueller?

[@bigtobacco1098]

@@shell3775 conspiracy theories

[@shell3775]

@bigtobacco1098 I guess you're not interested in answering my clarifying question. You just make a demand and expect me to ask "how high?" That's not much of a genuine conversation.

[@JasongCLJ]

0:30 the key thing about that is . . . the NAR governs the way the world governs . . not how we are to Biblically have administrations in the church ( 1st corinthians 12 ) which are largely just positions of servitude . Even prophets ( dont get me started on this . . . . . ) are supposed to have thier words judged by the others because we all have Holy Spirit. Yes there is order and positions , placements , but not like the world gives such . NAR is worldly in that way. And ofcourse the dominionism teachings are NOT BIBLICAL and are a deception designed to join with the big apostasy coming .

[@fangletterman-ng2ro]

Right from the start, you excluded anyone who does not understand what you mean by "nar." It is important to DEFINE a term, terminology, or acronym, at the time of its first use in an article or publication.

[@pianogal853]

Good point. Melissa has made videos about NAR for awhile, and this is only an excerpt from a longer interview that probably explains it ( I haven't seen the full video yet).

[@jtv_70]

New Apostolic Reformation (NAR). Its mainly in the hypercharismatic/Word of Faith (WOF), prosperity gospel circles.

[@zapazap]

Indeed, or my be useful to outline the definition (or definitions) of 'apostle' at play.

[@kathierouse6046]

NAR is New Apostolic Reformation. The bottom line is that they want the ultimate power, which is using government to rule the world. It is very demonic and satanic.

[@JackN808]

Thank you for this video. Through the scriptures we are able to prove all things and hold fast to that which is good. If people would do just that they will be able to discern truth from lies, good from evil and light from darkness. NAR cannot pass the test. 🙏🙏🙏

[@steevrush]

Signs can be counterfeited, as can the wonders. Neither are central to our faith. Rather, we worship a person, the Lord Jesus X (the Christ) who sacrificed His life to buy us!

[@mabelorozco149]

Thanks for sharing!!!

[@christianmartina15]

Yeah, we also have a lot of prophets and apostles in our country who are just deceiving people. And they do have a huge fan following bcoz people are super interested in miracles and signs when actually there is just no sign of Gospel, repentance and anything like following Christ and being a new creature.

[@danielmiller1812]

Where's Jesus, in the nar ? The gifts of the Spirit point us to Messiah, not man or mountains. Keep sound doctrine alive, tks Melissa.

[@user295295]

There's more scripture to support the contention that apostles are to lead the church than there is the contention that pastors are supposed to. As far as I'm concerned, the office of pastor ceased in 70AD.

[@Scotty-Z70]

i used to be in the "Word of Faith" movement. i kept noticing that what they preached and how they lived were not parallel. If i believed that every dollar i gave to the church would comeback 7 fold every time, I'd never own a mansion. I'd be sending that money to the church every time i got to produce more.

[@theterribleyoutuber7376]

Haven't watched the video yet but I will. To answer the title, Christianity is not just about signs wonders, but as someone who could really use a miracle it would sure help. I get tired of theological know-it-allism

[@My_2_Sense]

I hope you receive what you need.

[@theterribleyoutuber7376]

@@My_2_Sense thank you. Pray for me. My name is Thomas.

[@danielle_0824]

Just said a prayer for you.

[@theterribleyoutuber7376]

@@danielle_0824 thank you for your kindness.

[@dan_m7774]

There are many Miracles occuring in Catholic saints .

[@FearNotSpeakBoldly]

I watched their NAR convo with Michael Brown and it really brought some clarity. I highly recommend it.

[@mikem6796]

What did you get out of it? Seemed like Brown just skated the issues the whole time.

[@JDthegamer209]

@@FearNotSpeakBoldly Where can I watch their conversation? I'd like to see what Michael Brown had to say about it.

[@republiccooper]

Please share the link here please. 🙏

[@devonp2756]

Dr. Michael Brown is a problem. I don't trust anything coming from him?

[@meganp8766]

⁠@@FearNotSpeakBoldlyI don’t see it. Maybe KZbin has a bot to remove links from comments or comments with links. Can you maybe share the video title and channel that posted it?

[@terriwhalen3618]

Amen and Amen

[@EBM1966]

Bethel became craaazy!’n

[@1988joshua]

You all are right, NAR is such a blessing and God is flowing mightily in this age to see his people united through Power:)

[@MaccaBased]

@@1988joshua NAR is not a blessing to the body of Christ. It is a movement based on bad theology and greed, both spiritual and financial. It breeds Christians who are entitled and unbiblical motivated to possess a perfect life not promised in scripture.

[@1988joshua]

All what you are saying is based off of hear say and other people feeding information which places a spirit of Criticism and Judgement in your heart. It builds disdain for a people group that keeps you from being fruitful in Love. If you can't go to the source yourself, then have nothing to say. Don't allow your self to be sucked into the realm of those who validate their unity with Christ through finding faults in others instead of living unto God by the Spirit being lead by his Spirit producing life. Judgement for the purpose of changing minds produces death not life, never has, and never will.

[@nancythornburg7538]

Have you made an appointment to speak with Bethel Leadership or do you just make videos?

[@tricia811]

The 7 Mountains Mandate was the beginning of Project 2025- started back in the 70's with the Moral Majority.

[@MarthaAnderson-jv8ph]

Good information.

[@nellski214]

NAR is everywhere and its not even a church denomination. It s straight out of new age into to “church”. Be aware of the music you listen and sing!!!

[@terrymitchell6423]

Agreed

[@KatyaVideoChannel]

What is nar?

[@lindadodd3829]

Some of these comments are frightening.

[@SmithWesson-vm8pk]

Watching from WA

[@roxannehennig5481]

HI HAVE YOU EVER DONE A PODCAST ON AGLOW INTERNATIONAL?USED TO BE WOMENS AGLOW. THEY ARE INTO STRANGE TEACHINGS. CAN YOU CONSIDER DOING PODCAST ABOUT THEM?

[@ForTheChristians]

Great content! Thabks

[@jenniferfanguy2812]

The word poimen is used once and only in that verse. Timothy and Titus tells us who is supposed to rule the body of Christ. Elders and bishop overseas. That means to keep it in line with scripture. It's not a lecture every Sunday or a guilt trip. None of the churches are set the way it supposed to be. In fact church was meant for believers. We are to build people up in the word to go out and share the gospel.

[@ADxtraIsHere]

Can we get the whole interview. I would love that. Love this video. Have a great day Melissa.❤❤

[@ShyAnny]

It's linked at the end of the description

[@ADxtraIsHere]

@@ShyAnny Oop. THANK YOU SO MUCH.❤😊

[@Emmyemmcee]

@@ADxtraIsHereWhich link is the right one because I don’t see one that links to a longer video.

[@karengingras5600]

I attended one of their schools of supernatural ministry….. I wanted to see what they taught so I could be aware of their programs….so much deception…I have been a Christian since 1976 and have seen the numerous error in teaching throughout the years……during the 8-9 months of classes…we read their numerous books….so much error……as well as various classroom exercises…. I am an old charismatic and have to leave several movements throughout the years…. I am blessed with basing my faith on scripture not experience…. I was in Silva Mind Control before I came to Christ…there are similarities in Bethel’s teaching…..more experiential than based on the Word…. Thank you for excellent video…very good explanations….. I to have shared similar information to help clarify the error for people that have questions….

[@SuperFacecloth]

You're not wrong, you're not right.

[@invictusOne]

I don’t recognize the Christian church anymore.

[@Emmyemmcee]

What I found at the end of my WO(L)F NAR time was the abuse of ppl AND the boring pounding/repeating same preaching. They never branched out into other parts of the Bible (they claimed they preached it but they didn’t). It was mind numbingly boring and repetitive.

[@liz17smile]

I don't remember the exact verse but there's a verse in the Bible that says speak those things that are not as though they were… Perhaps these is the verse that the NAR movement goes by when they talk about decree and declare. I was hoping you would speak about that.

[@Sammie_jo-SavedbyGrace]

They called it 7 mountains of influence where I use to go. Also, if you don't mind me asking, what kind of church do you go to, or recommended? We've been going to a SBC. We really enjoy the teaching and the hymns that are sung, but they are bringing in music from Bethel, Hillsong etc. We don't know what to do as a family. We tried a KJV Baptist this past Sunday but idk about it either. It's a small country church, but I'm iffy on it.

[@THEALLIANCEZERG]

What denomination action is Mrs Doughtry?

[@bella-bee]

How am I going to react to a new pastor who denies NAR influence but says we must live in the kingdom now and that means miracles, healings and deliverances as proof - these he calls the fruits.

[@ADxtraIsHere]

Which pastor, may I ask?

[@Aaron-hype]

The Kingdom is at hand, and healings, wonders, and miracles are for today. They are some of the proofs of the Kingdom but definitely not all, or the most important. These are gifts, not fruits. Are you sure he said fruits? Galatians 5 clearly states the differences.

[@Vulcaneer900]

Being led of God is not "seeking a sign". Jesus was clear about who does that. Yes God is still about healing, and casting out demons, and leading Nations. But also He is calling us out of this world. We are not here to save or control this world. The love of this world is not of God. We are here to be a witness of God's presence in our lives, and to preach His Gospel. 💛❤💙 "We are saved by faith in Christ alone. Not by works." (*or signs and wonders)

[@yvichenj333]

​@@Aaron-hypeand @Vulcaneer900 These are helpful comments to equip me as I prepare to talk to loved ones in the NAR. Thank you for your input. I covet your prayers. I feel very intimidated yet led to do so.

[@snakejumper3277]

Find a new pastor if he leading your Fellowship astray.

[@aaronwilfong1250]

Even real Miracles we don't worship our miracle.The men with leprosy one went back to Jesus, and the others didn't. We should go back to Jesus.

[@catrinaknight5879]

I have never heard of NAR

[@toolegittoquit_001]

Have now

[@fangletterman-ng2ro]

​@@toolegittoquit_001nope. They didn't define it.

[@butterpecan5642]

New Apostolic Reformation= NAR Google it

[@lindasnyder1729]

New Apostolic Reformation

[@BobbiMac08]

​@@fangletterman-ng2roIt's not hard to find. I assume it's in the link to the longer version of this video.

[@therecoverytabernacle]

Excellent work

[@MichaelAndrews-uy1gl]

Christianity is about signs and wonders, and so much more. We serve and worship an all powerful God. How can you negate miracles? Just because Jesus Christ is in heaven doesn't mean that he just stopped saving, delivering, and healing people. You must be serving some other Jesus than the real one. He is working through his body, (the church) and doing mighty works through the power of the Holy Spirit. Of course there is more to Christianity, but we must still include it in order to do the works that Jesus commissioned us to do through him, as we are led by the Spirit of God. (Romans 8:14). Many thousands in Africa, and other countries have been saved and delivered through the late Reinhardt Bonnke's ministry. I am not familiar with Bethel church, or Bill Johnson.

[@Farmhouselivingroom]

As Believers you should influence your country that was founded by those seeking freedoms that other countries don’t experience!

[@Enginejen]

Just want to throw out there that not all charismatics are crazy weirdos and many do not subscribe to NAR. There are balanced charismatics who follow scripture not how we feel. It’s within the fence of scripture that miracles can happen. There’s freedom WITHIN the structure of scripture!

[@robertburke9920]

So then, read the breakthrough masterpiece novel "Where Do We Go Now, LORD? - Burke." Explains much. Very much. Then, pursue the references in the novel... and many answer to decades-long problems with church leadership. Enjoy!

[@hilbert551]

I have some personal experience with Bethel ministries. A handful of our youth went after Bethel doctrines. They brought them into our church with great relish. It was very divisive and then the church was split and destroyed. I noticed that Bethel doesn't tell their followers to go out and find their own disciples and build their own churches from the ground up. Instead they hijack existing churches and try to "Bethelize" them. Many churches have been hurt or destroyed in the process. It was very sad. Yet Bill Johnson will say they are "led by the Holy Spirit."

[@watchwomandebrajesusistheway]

Probably a different spirit

[@LarrySanger]

Oh come on. Christianity isn’t even mainly about signs and wonders.

[@toolegittoquit_001]

Bill Bright and Loren Cunningham did the church no favors 😐

[@watchwomandebrajesusistheway]

Question: do Mormons have a similar mandate as NAR

[@JOSEPHBURBOSR]

👍🙏

[@qkae]

What is NAR? New Apostolic Reformation?

[@annikaelisaa1879]

Yes, that’s right

[@annikaelisaa1879]

Yes, that’s right

[@rpoetic]

Well to be fair two verses Eph 2:20 and the one in Eph 4. I don't think its correct but its not one verse. Then they combine that with the verses of eldership.

[@AlyssaDDani]

I don't think it means attending church. Hundreds of thousands have already been attending church. I think it means getting alone in your prayer closet and kneeling and praying. Matthew 6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly Joel 2:13 And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the Lord your God Daniel 9 18 O my God, incline thine ear, and hear; open thine eyes, and behold our desolations, and the city which is called by thy name: for we do not present our supplications before thee for our righteousnesses, but for thy great mercies. 19 O Lord, hear; O Lord, forgive; O Lord, hearken and do; defer not, for thine own sake, O my God: for thy city and thy people are called by thy name. 20 And whiles I was speaking, and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the Lord my God for the holy mountain of my God; 2 chronicles 7 14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

[@NikiLarson-gs2yb]

Was going to reach out to Holly and ask her what her thoughts are on the CMA church. I don’t think many know much about it even though Ravi Zacharias was a CMA pastor.

[@ktfrisbee46]

As was A W Tozer

[@NikiLarson-gs2yb]

@@ktfrisbee46 yes he was, he started the year AB Simpson passed away.

[@JDthegamer209]

@@NikiLarson-gs2yb what is the CMA church? I don't think I've ever heard of it.

[@NikiLarson-gs2yb]

@@JDthegamer209 Christian and Missionary Alliance

[@cliffordnewell2445]

But all I want is one sign. Or one wonder.

[@Finchman]

"Doctrine matters" - Spencer Smith 😂 Ya'll who watch him on KZbin will understand.

[@bmac7639]

They rarely preach the gospel.

[@ubombogirl]

i have the book. so many folks just really do not understand anything about nar and certainly don't understand why i get so passionate about teaching them the harm and angers of it! having come out of the hyper-charismatic movement, i am so thankful for this invaluable resource. thanks, @MelissaDougherty for inviting Doug and Holly to do a video.

[@republiccooper]

I'm new to this but it sounds strange to me (both NAR and their critics). What are the harms and dangers of it?

[@ubombogirl]

@@republiccooper they (bethel/nar) twist Scripture so far out of context in so many ways. get the book referenced here "counterfeit kingdom". may bring more clarity to you than just this short video. bethel practices many new age/new thought things that are NOT Biblical.

[@denise643]

Yes Lance wallnau big time teaches seven mountains and I have friends and in laws that follow him very concerning

[@murrayt1193]

Helpful. Thanks

[@johnhoover7869]

Is there a NAR church? Is there a NAR Department at Bethel? Is there a NAR creed similar to the Westminster or London Baptist confessional for the Calvinists? If there was a NAR newsletter I wonder who would subscribe? At least Calvinist sometimes confess they are Calvinist, I'm not sure that NARist actually think of themselves as NAR. Do NARist even know the roots of their NARism?

[@lindasnyder1729]

It's a secret. They won't admit that they're NAR, but they know what it is, and they know they're a part of it. Example--Aglow International.

[@snopure]

They might not know they're NAR, but that doesn't matter. That's the same approach certain people wanting to disprove Christianity try to ask Christians to prove where "Christian" is mentioned in the Bible. It seriously makes no difference if it is or isn't. It just unnecessarily splits hairs over nomenclature rather than getting to the core beliefs espoused by a particular group of people.

[@geraldineregina7069]

7 mountain mandate is so focused on glorifying man and not God!! Plus, wouldn't you know that when 7 mountains are mentioned in the bible, it's in Revelation, and not in a good light....

[@beachlifeboy]

Is it too contentious to have a discussion on Christian Nationalism? To have church leaders say things like Christians who don't vote Republican are not true Christians. What do you think?

[@LadyLove23.]

As a born again Christian would stand against abortion and refute any lies disclaiming act as reproductive health bc actually it’s non- reproductive to abort… also transgendering minors without parental consent. Two abominable sins in God’s eyes.

[@sherylriehl1334]

I don’t know what NAR is. I know Bethel church.

[@brenth2794]

New Apostolic Reformation (NAR).

[@butterpecan5642]

It stands for New Apostolic Reformation

[@sherylriehl1334]

Thank you!!!

[@zapazap]

Which, in turn, is what?

[@sherylriehl1334]

@@zapazap- still not sure but now I can google it. Ha ha.

[@bonniedrake8382]

Melissa can you please give me a definition of a charismatic 🤔

[@JDthegamer209]

People claiming to have apostolic authority LONG after the real apostles were alive? Hmm, sounds a lot like the Catholic Church and the Pope. No thanks.

[@bigtobacco1098]

No... claiming to be an apostle or prophet isn't the same as claiming to have apostolic authority

[@JDthegamer209]

@@bigtobacco1098 How is it not claiming to have apostolic authority? They're literally calling themselves "apostles"! How can anyone be an apostle and not have apostolic authority? That's a contradiction in terms!

[@bigtobacco1098]

@@JDthegamer209 they aren't calling themselves apostles... point to one

[@JDthegamer209]

@@bigtobacco1098 Who are you referring to? Who isn't referring to themselves as apostles?

[@bigtobacco1098]

@JDthegamer209 any catholics as the OP stated

[@thejohnbeck]

signs and wonders people confuse me. "Jesus in a cloud!". whatever.

[@SnakeAlert]

Yoooo Holly Spoke at my school about NAR. Alaska Bible College. She is legit.

[@AlyssaDDani]

My words here are of course rhetorical. To point out the absurdity of it all. But they are not allowed to give a negative report; not if they want a healing. They are only allowed to give positive confessions or else they don't have faith and won't get healed. Not to mention all the pressure and coercion. You surely don't want to be the wet blanket and offend people. You don't want to let everybody down when they are expecting and hoping and depending on you to decree and declare your healing so that you can go home and eagerly wait and wait and wait and wait to receive. Do not say you are not healed yet and offend the man of God. Do not speak negative. Only speak positive confessions of faith so that the crowd claps. If you don't pretend then it's all your fault. Well it's your fault anyway. God will not accept being good in place of being cleansed. Relatively good people still must be cleansed; Because in truth we may be good by the worlds standards but we are sinners by God's standards. We have broken His laws repeatedly and are stained with sin. We must be forgiven and washed to be part of His eternal Kingdom.

[@lindasnyder1729]

They won't let you leave until you say you are healed. If you say that you are not healed, they say you still have to forgive someone. If you try to leave without your healing, then you don't have enough faith or you have a demon. Just say whatever they want to hear, and then run for the hills.

[@bobrunnebohm9667]

I don’t recall any of this at Saint Joe grade school. It’s just sounds like a bunch of gobbledegook to me.

[@pamdawson8598]

I thought Christianity us about Christ Jesus.

[@republiccooper]

So I don't belong to one of these churches but, in all honesty, I see nothing wrong with the 7 Mountains Mandate; and I see nothing evil about the Fivefold Ministry. What am I missing? I see nothing heretical about it.

[@vikinglobo2415]

It has teachings that are outside of Scripture. It's focus is on the power within and not Christ. Very new age at its core.

[@pappap1702]

There is no 7 mountain mandate in Scripture to begin with.

[@zapazap]

Remember friends: You can teach things outside of scripture provided what Yiu teach is not contrary to scripture

[@lindadodd3829]

Wow. YOU ARE LISTENING TO THE WRONG VOICE!! PLEASE!! STUDY THE WORD FOR YOURSELF! Pray, ask God's Holy Spirit to teach you... Bethel is A DIFFERENT SPIRIT!!

[@zapazap]

@@lindadodd3829 Who is "listening" to a wrong voice?

[@pamelaadams5395]

What is NAR?

[@georgeottesen7005]

It is the New Apostolic Reformation

[@LSLuikart]

New Apostolic Reformation.

[@elainevang9114]

New Apostolic Reformation

[@angellacyr1702]

New Apostolic Reformation

[@kaykay9458]

The New Apostolic Reformation

[@dachater1]

....but it does have signs and wonders.....

[@GeorgeFloyd2023]

St. Julian of Aosaka says: Hooray for Bing for finally questioning the inevitability of death. You know what the penultimate cause of death is? You got it ... "sin". What? Like stealing and fornication? Nope. Lack of complete constant awareness. That is what runs that dastardly time clock of our lives. We learn this in our earliest infancy ... "original sin".

[@zapazap]

What, then, is the ultimate cause?

[@zapazap]

To whom are ypu claiming tney dont matter?

[@ricksonora6656]

Declaratory prayer originated in sorcery.

[@OrangeMonkey2112]

It’s funny they say 7 Mountains. Prophecy talks about the whore of Babylon and it sits on 7 mountains. Just interesting they would use that phrase.

[@neganwalker8425]

Found a church where they dont baptize, they say to submerge yourself in jesus christ teachings, and they use words like all is all , new pact ,illuminate , and manifest your reality with your words?

[@TheShiningEnergy]

leave that church! they are deceiving you!

[@deborahmiller3443]

Run!!!!!!

[@neganwalker8425]

Is this new age or am i just paranoid

[@ADxtraIsHere]

@@neganwalker8425 You're not paranoid. Just make sure you leave that place. God be with you.

[@bella-bee]

Yes, run! I agree

[@doznoff362]

2 of the five mentioned are the same basic ministry

[@zapazap]

Your comment would be more useful if you informed of us what these two are.

[@wademeyer6424]

This "extra" unbiblical "spew" has BADLY..MUDDIED THE WATERS of just what is BIBLICAL TRUTH....since...those who genuinely study...and are "lead by the spirit".... are those who need to challenge...confront

[@Samy-sx6kn]

Thank you that helped me much. I just recently came in touch with teaching of „pray with authority „ „walk praying around your house 7 times to build a spell (the didn’t use this word) for your family. I knew that’s not biblical. Know I know how I can address this aberrant teachings better.

[@bradleyyurk5744]

Isn’t this Christian Nationalism under a different name?

[@lindasnyder1729]

No. They're different.

[@bradleyyurk5744]

@@lindasnyder1729 what’s the difference between Christian nationalism and the 7 mountain mandate?

[@watchwomandebrajesusistheway]

Very similar... I think there's overlap there

[@lindadodd3829]

KINGDOM NOW THEOLOGY. RUN!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@brianwhitehead8634]

I agree with what is being said, but where is your charismatic commentator? You say that “charismatics are concerned as well”, which they are because I am one, but you do an injustice by not having a charismatic in on the topic. I’m taking it that none of you are charismatic because you didn’t emphasize that you were when it was emphasized. Great message by all of you, especially the gentleman.

[@mable552]

100% Agree!