Classic WoW Melee Mechanics Guide

[@DefcampMelderonTV]

I hope you enjoyed the Classic WoW Melee Mechanics Guide. Make sure to show Magey, Vilius, and the crew over on the Fight Club Discord some love! discord.gg/Bb6Y7P Google Slides Link: docs.google.com/presentation/d/1sOxkEeRh_KIzkrmXapiUWUDNXKXh7U80g1xal4W1iBA/edit?usp=sharing Timestamps and Errata: 00:10 - Introductions and Special Thanks 01:15 - Table of Contents 01:47 - Armor 04:21 - Hit Tables & Misses 07:08 - Glancing Blows & Penalties 09:41 - Weapon Skill Breakdown 10:56 - Dodge 12:36 - Block 13:18 - Parry & Parry Haste 15:14 - Critical Strike Chance & Crit Suppression 21:07 - Conclusions & Interesting Links Errata: 1.) On the Dodge Slide, the PvP equation should have a multiplier of 0.04, not 0.1. Change has been made on the slides 2.) the DW miss chances at 205 weapon skill are off by a bit. Changes have been made to the slide. It should read: 60: 23.6% 61: 24% 62: 24.4% 63: 24.8%

[@battshins8079]

Hey I like your guys channel and guides. I would be really interested in a guide on pvp mechanics (melee or ranged). Things like positioning, how to abuse line of sight to cancel spells, how to disengage/mount up, etc. I think information on that type of micro is sorely lacking in the WoW community, considering how prevalent it is in mobas, fps, etc. Just a suggestion, keep up the great work!

[@cwbvb13]

Another amazing vid! Hey Melderon, can you make a video on attributes. i.e how agi, str, int, etc translate to attack power, crit chance, etc for the different classes. Also, how when evaluating gear, how extra int for example on a piece compares with a + damage to spells/heals. Would be incredibly helpful!

[@DefcampMelderonTV]

@@SmartyPantsDumbShityou have an appropriate name, good sir

[@jacksun9873]

really really good guide. Is there a caster mechanics version of this as well?

[@YungYdoc]

I've just been obsessed searching "Classic WoW" videos on KZbin all day.

[@s3k___20]

Talaska it’s the hype bro same here. Less than 2 weeks

[@God_of_Ramen]

I think its hilarious how much some of these youtubers know about Vanilla wow. It's like....this is a 23 minute video about these small considerations. It seems like a lecture about classic wow made by him with the hope of people playing it in a different, more efficient way. These videos are the biggest change made for wow.

[@YungYdoc]

@@God_of_Ramen Yeah, it won't be the same game, that's for sure.

[@dood6647]

Just got my pc this Sunday. I'm ready.

[@ailst]

I’ve been playing this game since 2004 and I never knew that “Mob” stands for “Monsters or Beasts” :o

[@HyDrar1]

I thought mob is mobile npc

[@panbenes]

@@HyDrar1 In the manual that came in the box with the WoW is a glossary saying: "Mob - Any computer-controlled character in the game, whether hostile or not. An abbreviation of mobile." To be honest I like "monster or beast" much more. I never saw someone use mob for non hostile npc...

[@MrFnew]

I thought it was mobile object

[@WarrioJ]

Woah! I thought it was a collective noun because they form big groups and don't behave intelligently.

[@lancercool1992]

I thought it was just mob, like a rioting group of people

[@jaednhowlar2359]

You do so much work advertising other content and colecting it perfectly, thankyou. So much fresh insight every time

[@martigan7055]

I really appreciate you guys, we are about the same age so it is nice to see WoW videos from mature individuals who don't act like juveniles. I won't be joining classic like I did in 2005 but I'll be checking in every now and than to re-live those moments vicariously through your content. Thank you for that!

[@veritasabsoluta4285]

Why not play?

[@martigan7055]

Ducky1521 thank you for this, teared up a little because I didn’t think anyone else could understand. You my friend, are a champion!

[@vilius8117]

one correction to the dw miss chance with 305 skill, and this was my fault not melderon's: 60: 23.6% 61: 24% 62: 24.4% 63: 24.8%

[@klyded8523]

Do you know if the crit equation for white hits changes if you stand behind the boss, since they can't block or parry? Or will max white crit with a two hander be 16.6%?

[@HEricW.77]

Does 1h + Shield count as DW? Thanks!

[@klyded8523]

@@HEricW.77 nope, that has 9% miss, same as 2h

[@HEricW.77]

@@klyded8523 Awesome, good to know, and great to hear! Thanks!

[@jersute]

@@klyded8523 correct. you stand behind the boss for exactly that reason and not parry hasting the boss and killing your tank. you remove parry (14) and block (~5 default) thus raising your effective rear crit cap

[@MrNmc09331]

Mob comes from "Mobile", as "proc" comes from "procedure". Both come from the code behind MUDs from the early 90's, text based multiplayer online RPGs

[@illbean1337]

I already "knew" a lot of this (from private servers, so some values have been wrong) but i definetly didn't know all of it. Really good information and great presentation. Thanks a lot for this informative video, keep em comin!

[@coreyboatright888]

Great video and I had no idea about crit suppression. Talents that improve specific spells crit chance like improved backstab will still be able to boost my crit chance to make it around 50% if I can get around 25% crit base and always remember that rogues only do it from behind.

[@im_capy]

Hope you both are doing good and thank you for your great contributions to the community

[@kaidannies]

This is a great guide. One thing for me is missing though: In your crit section you assumed parrys, especially for the white hits with the one-roll-system. It would be nice (even though i can do it myself) to present the crit cap from behind, which should be at 30.6%, so 35.4% full buffed (with 305 weapon skill and 6% hit)

[@emilarvedjensen309]

Was going to say the same. Would be super useful 16,6+5+14+4,8=40,4% should be the crit cap from the back since no parry or block? Or what am I missing?

[@mizzeti]

Thanks you very much for this! I finally understood how all this stuff works! Just to clarify a thing when talking about crit percentage. The whole last part applies, to my understanding, when you have enough miss to be removed by hit like white hits when dual wielding, right? Because with 305 weapon skill and 6% hit chance, you don't have any miss left to remove, so no room to make use of the crit chance over the cap.

[@G-Fiti]

TLDW: Weapon skill is important

[@jamesroberts2521]

Love the content here. I'm a more visual person so it's hard to absorb the data presented in on go, but as you say, just stare at the slides. Lol

[@PerfectStealth]

Great video. Lots of stuff I didn’t know and it was great to brush up on stuff I already did. Good work, guys.

[@Pwnbot01]

Thanks for a very clear explanation of the hit/mitigation system (along with crit suppresion). I knew about these systems but it helps to have the nuts and bolts explained in detail xD.

[@avargs3505]

The Bible of hit values in classic WoW.. Thank you for this wealth of knowledge shared!

[@raijinmeister]

I would love to see a guide for Arms dps from you guys. Great vid, thanks.

[@flooent]

Incredible work, very clear and concise. Well done!

[@Kvothe1994]

Thanks so much for this guide, no need to research by myself :)

[@mikeb3808]

Another very well made, informative video.

[@fluffyncute063]

Forgot one melee mechanic that every rogue abuses still to this day in pvp. If memory serves me right abilities hit in a cone of 180 degree angle and auto attacks hit at 140 degree angle. Correct me on the exact angles please. Has little pve use unless you are tanking. If I'm close by the sheep target I'll prep it with a few sunders.

[@Ares42]

I think it's worth mentioning that for DPSers in general the crit reduction from the 2-roll system is fairly minimal since you're not getting parried and yellow strikes don't get DW hit-reduction. All it takes is reaching the 8% hit cap and your yellow attacks will see 94-95% of your crit chance.

[@vilius8117]

this is true

[@kenzovich9225]

What a nice video , everything important you need to know in there. Thanks a lot for making this ;) !

[@PantherFox]

made a sick spreadsheet from your video. thanks dude.

[@DefcampMelderonTV]

You are welcome. Feel free to share if you wish

[@sombrego2260]

Really interesting info. I had no idea that the weapon racials were that powerful.

[@livewyr7227]

This will be the first ever time that I roll an Orc. (Much prefer the racial mythos of Tauren- as evidenced by half of my total character slots in retail having bull horns...) Initially was going to be simply because of the stun resists (PvP) but knowing just how much effect that natural Axe skill boost has... wow. Great Vid.

[@Ezzekiel73]

tbf, Edgemasters will get you right next to that 308 cap, so it's not as important as you might think, although the other talents ARE insanely good, so it's whatever. I personally will be making a Tauren myself, mostly because I was beyond happy to see Blizz is going with old model hitboxes, meaning Tauren have a larger than normal melee range due to them having a larger hitbox. aka, more range on melee attacks, harder to be kited/deadzoned.

[@livewyr7227]

@@Ezzekiel73 1) Those are pretty awesome, but also straight up dumb luck for me. (I'm not going to be farming overly much.) 2) I almost stayed Tauren because of that hitbox reach (especially with Melee leeway) but ultimately that stun resist and the other racials along side the guaranteed Axe boost...

[@putraceface]

Interesting tidbit for you, at around 2:30 it's stated that mob stands for "monster or beast". In fact, it's a term that originated in MUD gaming (which MMO's are a natural progression of), and it stood for mobile. It denoted an object in the game that was "self mobile". Check it out: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mob_(gaming)

[@evilcam]

Does the same two-hit table apply for yellow hits on players then, if you plug in level 60 to the equation? Say, if your crit chance is 25% and you go to hit another player, and the dodge/parry/miss chance stack up to 25%, will you likewise then also only have a 15.15% chance to hit another player because of the 75% of the remaining attacks that succeeded? Also, damn this is a good video. I appreciate all the hard work and number crunching that everyone involved put into it. It shows your dedication to the game and community, and though it might not always feel as thought he community is sufficiently appreciative of it, I certainly am. eep it up.

[@vilius8117]

yes 2 roll applies to pvp yellows as well. in that scenario, 25% of attacks that don't miss/dodge/parry will be crits, but that only amounts to 15.15% of all yellow attacks made against the target.

[@evilcam]

Thanks. I would imagine that is why Blizz later added stackable expertise, to try to get that listed crit chance more in-line with the actual crit chance after the two-roll thing.

[@vilius8117]

@@evilcam also as someone else pointed out, for dps this difference isn't as significant because parry is off the table and you can reduce yellow miss to 0 pretty easily

[@AlbertLamarque]

Basically what you are saying is that agility increases your base crit and therefore bybasses suppression which is why leather often has superior itemization over plate?

[@ivanbrown1924]

Duuude stop making me hate myself for wanting to Night Elf Warrior tank haha. I guess I just need to stack more hit.

[@sennath6227]

That's not as bad as rolling a dwarf fury warrior aka myself

[@rogaldorn5486]

I dont realy know how it will be on blizz classic realm but, whil tanking on a privat realm i had an orc warrior and no hit at all. I used a lot of crit with potion i came up to 25% crit. Since crits cant miss i had next to no miss at all. I also had no improved weapon skills sice u tanked with a sword and did not use the + 7 weapon skill gloves.

[@Banana_Zach]

@@sennath6227 In a party/raid sure it is sub-optimal, but human warriors would love to cleanse diseases/poisons while solo for free.

[@Doddleran]

Really informative, Great job!

[@positivethinker1023]

Excellent work as always.

[@doman9891]

just one thing to all of you who haven't played vanilla, this information is all great and all but can be misleading sometimes. yea weapon skill is great and all...decreases your hit requirement by 3%, decreases your glancing penalty by 20% BUT, in real game, all you need to do is to equip a gloves with weapon skill on it to negate all of these, so you will end up with some disadvantage in the gloves slot that you can wear instead of the "BIS gloves" and if you compare the so called BIS gloves with the item that I can't remember won't be as drastic as you think(maybe like 20 AP and 1% hit/crit). PLAY WHAT YOU WANT!

[@Legalmind2]

In case anyone somehow watched the video and understood it yet still listened to this guy. Go back and watch the video. It exactly quantifies how important weapon skill is and shows you evidence based that you will be playing with effectively an item slot unequipped if you decide to not play a human/orc. Play what you want, but know what it will cost you. Also have it be known that farming the gold for edgemasters is no walk in the park, that is a lot of time and effort and shouldn't be glanced over like a "ya just equip the gloves man". Just my two cents from a warrior that won't be rolling a nelf this time because nelf female ass is hot.

[@doman9891]

@@Legalmind2 having 300WS vs 305WS is roughly 7-8% dps loss, getting the WS gloves vs BIS gloves is 1% dps loss. maybe understand the comment before replying!

[@Legalmind2]

@@doman9891 Are you actually talking about the fucking gauntlets of Annihilation like they're something you're just gonna pick up on your way home from work? Sure if you're a backseat gaming warrior that doesn't need to actually be in a raid with 40 people and share loot, I guess you can look at it like that, but that's just not gonna be reality for anyone playing the game.

[@doman9891]

@@Legalmind2 No...why would I be talking about Gauntlets of Annihilation when the topic is Weapon Skill here? I was talking about the Edgemaster's Handgaurds which is the gloves you need to equip for min/maxing if you are rolling a non human/orc. And it's a world drop! Can be bought from AH...

[@Legalmind2]

@@doman9891 Then what do you mean WS gloves vs BiS gloves? If not Gauntlets of Annihilation since they are BiS gloves, now you've got me all confused with that part of your comment.

[@mitchellmcdowell7292]

Nice video. Not sure if the group went over this, and you happened to miss it, but I would really like to know what happens when you get above 310 weapon skill. Lots of people say that weapon skill above 310 or 308 starts to diminish. Meaning it has less of an impact on glancing blows and parries. Having Edgemasers handguards with +7 weapon skill and a human racial +5, you have 12 total weapon skill... use the ZG Warblades for another +6 you have 318 total weapon skill for swords.... what does this mean on bosses? Either way.. nice video and grats to the guys that help you make it.

[@joelsnider3940]

So I couldnt find any specific information of a different formula to having more than 315 weapon skill but the gains above 308 are rather small. At 300 your glancing blows will do 65% damage of your normal hits, At 305 they will do 85%, At 308 they will do 95%. From 308 and up you will receive no further glancing blow benefit. Capping glancing damage at 95%. Now weapon skill also decreases your chance to miss by .2% per point until you get over 305 then its a .1% increase. At 305 the weapon skill formula changes which is why the hit chance jumps from 8% to 6%. So What this means is the difference between 308 and 315 weapon skill is .7% chance to hit and thats it. Anything over 315 may apply the same .1 %chance to hit per point but again im unclear due to the lack of available information. BUT assuming it does continue the difference between 308 and 318 would be 1% chance to hit. Most of this info was taken from github.com/magey/classic-warrior/wiki/Attack-table#miss Thankyou magey for all your hard work.

[@vilius8117]

there is no effect on glancing blow penalty above 308 weapon skill. at that point your only benefit is reduced chance to miss and reduced chance to be dodged

[@PantherFox]

If you go up to 318 weapon skill from 308, they will be 1% less likely to dodge, and you'll be 0.7% less likely to miss (if you aren't hit capped), but that's all.

[@bilbobaggins7095]

Doesn't hit rating above the cap cause you to eat into the crit suppression? I know it did in BC

[@brentsta]

I hope this guide talks about the hamstring method. I keep seeing guides mention it and I still get hit until my slow weapons swing timer ends. I must be doing it wrong. After hearing the intro though I don't think it's that kind of melee guide. Still valuable info

[@bret7786]

Very nice breakdown team 👏

[@jeffmorin1388]

I keep hearing people say "mob" is an acronym for "Monster or Beast." It's not. It's short for "mobile," and dates back to the earliest MUDs. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mob_(gaming) You guys are great on WoW info. Hope you can appreciate the original meaning rather than the retcon.

[@watchthe1369]

Crit is like a window, the bigger the window is made by hit, the more crit that gets through.

[@MrNikomadsen]

Another fantastic headache!

[@firemarshaldil]

Now that my brain is jello, im gunna have to listen a few more times! Lol

[@jonathonnevill1075]

I really am not sure what to do now...more hit than cap is better?

[@_Foehammer]

Sweet, let's have a watch

[@NPC-bs3pm]

Wow after all the talk of crit reduction, I think this is why Vanilla WoW felt so much better for damage inflation issues found in current WoW expansions!

[@Lojka59]

But if we attack from behind there will be no Parry, so crit cap will be 16% higher ?

[@vilius8117]

in this example, 19% higher since no parry or block

[@MrFleit]

@@vilius8117 so without world buffs crit cap will be pretty far away for meele dps

[@vilius8117]

@@MrFleit yeah it's not an immediate concern in p1, just something to keep in mind as crit from consumes/buffs/gear ramps up

[@choonbox]

This is actually really good am I'm not even planning on going melee. :)

[@t3chn0dr0n3]

tl;dw - weapon skill is much more important than you thought and rolling human/orc for DPS warrior is actually a big deal.

[@AmyLovesYou]

It's not that important dude. Edgemaster's Hanguards makes all other races viable. If you struggle with getting enough gold for that particular item; then yeah, you might want to go human or orc.

[@redic3408]

so the real question is whats the optimal crit for enh shaman? when should you stop stacking crit and move to another stat.

[@jimmyjames4491]

Combat Rogues, remember you get weapon expertise talent. So play any race you want and don't feel pigeon-holed into Human or Orc. Dagger Rogues, there's many items that gift you +dagger weapon skill. So play any race you want.

[@TheRealbemok]

sword spec is better dmg tho

[@AlbertLamarque]

Play whatever race you want, just remember to play combat dagger ^^

[@typicalzen6149]

Thanks brothers!

[@orangutan1700]

20:00 so if the yellow first roll is false (you did not miss, get parried or get dodged), and if both of the remaining two rolls are true (you did get blocked, but you also critically struck), is total damage yielded by that yellow attack equal to zero? What if you did get blocked, but the crit roll was false, i.e., the resulting swing would be a hit?

[@WodaUtlenioooonaaa]

in both cases it'd be 0 I believe

[@orangutan1700]

@@WodaUtlenioooonaaa Thank you for your input, this was unclear to me. For a moment, there was the possibility it actually meant partial blocks, and that would make a lot of sense.

[@WodaUtlenioooonaaa]

@@orangutan1700 Well, no problem. And yeah but then again from what I remember (correct me if im wrong since it's been 2w ago) he said there would be a critical block, right? Therefore that's why I believe it's 0, then. Also from my pvp experience (I've pvped with a prot war for 3h for the lulz on classic rn), whenever he'd block my skills, it'd just show as "Blocked" no matter what I did. Then, that's why I think it's 0 explicitly :D Edit: Also, I'm fury war dps with DW and 25%+ crit, so I'd say some of the blocks were indeed critical blocks =)

[@cqwiii]

Glancing blows/WS: So if an example attack does 100 damage, but glances with no(extra) weapon skill, it does 65 damage.(35% penalty, boss) But with 5 bonus weapon skill, it does 85 damage. If we consider the 65 damage as baseline(that is the damage a player would do), then gaining 20 damage is a 30.8% increase in damage done. So even though you're negating 20% of damage reduction, you're receiving a 30.8% damage done increase on white attacks with +5 weapon skill. Glancing blows happen 40% of the time on bosses, so(30.8 x .4) overall you would gain +12.32% white attack damage. Is this all correct? Also, with +5 weapon you require 3% less hit to cap, and are dodged .5% less(bosses). The video said that weapon skill does not effect block, does it not effect parry as well? 14% against a boss, from the front always? So as a non weapon skill race vs a boss, a prot warrior will hit 3.5% less often(or 2.5% less often if they have 0 hit), and do 12.32% less damage on their(rare) white attacks?

[@vilius8117]

on average yes the glance would do 65 with no wep skill, and 85 with +5 wep skill you're receiving a 30.8% increase to what glances do correct but the overall increase to white damage depends on dodge/miss/crit/hit stats too parry is still inconclusive, we need a lot more hits on live to resolve this a tank with +0 ws vs a tank with +5 ws will hit at least 3.5% less often, depending how parry works out

[@cqwiii]

@@vilius8117 excellent, thank you for the response and all the work you guys have been doing Been trying to figure out my main as I wont roll human but also dont want to blue falcon my guild :>

[@vilius8117]

@@cqwiii with the recent news about itemization, as non-human you might consider going for OEB and playing a slam spec if heart set on dual-wield, edgemasters, or aclg with daggers

[@cqwiii]

@@vilius8117 oh, I should have specified Id be tanking *almost full time If I was going to dps I think Id feel obligated to go human or play another class. I get what you're saying though, edgemasters would probably be bis forever dual weilding non human As a tank Im not too worried about the glancing blows because heroic strike consuming white attacks I tried to do the math on the hit/dodge. Im not at home but iirc the numbers I came up with were, if I had 4% hit from items 69.5% chance for hits to land without weaponskill 73% chance for hits to land with +5 weaponskill Which came out to about 5% more hits landed/threat as a human Significant but not world ending. Far more than I had expected though. Cant Edgemasters while tanking, Maladath will be a big deal. "Unfortunately" I may end up with a thunderfury down the line, and all the +weapon skill gear a tank can use are weapons. I worry a bit about threat at aq/naxx levels. I think casters are going to be the main concern by then, and being able to reduce a boss's armor to 0 should help a bit with threat vs them. Ill also not be main tanking, so for a lot of content my aggro will not be super important If weapon skill does end up affecting parry that will hurt, hoping it does not xD

[@orangutan1700]

9:30 For these two formulae (low end and high end) I get ABS(-0.8) and ABS(-0.5) for defender's defense = 300 and attacker's attack = 310. How come? No way the penalty for attacker 310 and defender 300 is (ABS(-0.8) + ABS(-0.5))/2 == 65% nor 100%-65% nor any combination like that. What I did though is take the precalculated values from the next slide and inserted 10 IF-THEN-ELSE statements into my spreadsheet that take two parameters, defender and attacker skill. Do you have advice for me how to handle this better? (Using google spreadsheet to construct my spreadsheet thing).

[@vonblunder]

Very interesting, thanks for explaining this clearly! Now I am re-considering my race choice... melee dps seems to give an advantage to Human or Orcs. Humans are no brainer on Alliance, but on Horde, I am not sure if the Itemisation of Axes + say the Troll racial compensates that...

[@TheSwartz]

I wish you would have explained what "white" hits and "yellow" hits mean in the beginning. And, what are 1 roll and 2 roll attacks? And, explain what glancing blows are.

[@NovaMay]

White hits obviously are auto attacks, and yellow hits are abilities

[@NovaMay]

Glancing blows are attacks that deal less damage than a white hit and can't crit

[@Raybayize]

White hits are all autoattacks made without any input from you. All of them. Any modifier or instant cast from one of your abilities makes it a yellow hit (even heroic strike for instance). Glancing blows is a chance of white hits to connect less powerful (your attack glances off). The chance is showed in the video and weapon skill is the only thing that can modify this. 1 and 2 roll attacks are explained in the video.

[@orangutan1700]

Defcamp and Melderon 12:27 "Each point of Defense over the attacker's Attack Skill adds 0.04% Dodge against players..." Then Why on the righthand side of the screen it takes 0.1% within boss calculations, rather than 0.04%?

[@DefcampMelderonTV]

It's a typo. Errata is in the pinned comment

[@orangutan1700]

@@DefcampMelderonTV Thank you based boys the spreadshit i'm doing going to be LIT

[@SBudgetStaudi]

Cool video, but one thing wasn't really clear to me with the crit suppression. All those examples where hit from the front, but under normal circumstances you don't attack them head on because of the block/parry chance and certain boss abilities. If those 14% Parry + 5% Blockchance are off the table, do the 19% vanish from the table as not possible results or will those switch towards the hit percantage and therefore also increase the crit cap? Or something entirely different?

[@vilius8117]

yes 14% parry and 5% block disappear if attacking from behind, increasing your white crit cap by 19% but all of that is separate from crit suppression

[@beastsdruid]

thanks for the amazing info!

[@atmosfere_x_protagonist]

so what is the crit cap with 10% hit? 12% hit? etc great info btw.

[@SlimXG]

NPCs can block hunter auto attack shots. I have a screenshot of this from Vanilla

[@Pwkoizoie]

Does the hit chance and chance to get dodged/reduced crit for special attacks that aren't based on weapon damage still depend on the weapon skill of the main hand weapon ? An example is eviscerate that doesn't scale with weapon damage, does it still depend on the type of weapon you have in your main hand only ? Is the weapon type of the off hand only relevant for off hand auto attacks ?

[@Pwkoizoie]

Other question : does the hit chance formula apply for mobs that are lower level than you ? Is the delta in absolute value, i.e. do you never miss vs a mob 5 levels below yours (as it is +1% hit per level) or do you still have a 2.5% chance to miss (if taken literally defense-attack is below 10 as it is negative, so -25 would be -2.5% hit) ?

[@meyaht]

Let me know if I'm saying this right. if I only care about a yellow attack on my warrior (spam spec) with a 2h weapon on a raid boss, and only have access to pre raid gear, I should get 9% worth of hit gear, get my crit up to 16.6 or so, then stack ap?

[@Huhgundai399]

This is all very acidic; above the ears, mustard type shit

[@Kyle-ly6bt]

I'm curious about weapon skill. Past 308, does ur crit & hit still increase? Even if it's only slightly.

[@HolisticHabits88]

so like 10% in aq40 gives more room & chances to add & cit? 11Hit for naxx?

[@Draconic_Blazonry]

Do this for casters?

[@oinchadoomandwolfboy]

Can you dodge spells casted at you? Or just resist?

[@Donz01]

So if I understand right, the hit cap for raid bosses if you have 305 skill is 6% and if you have 300 skill it's 9%?

[@vilius8117]

yes, just keep in mind you'll only miss 8% of the time with 300 skill but you need 9% hit to overcome that 8% miss

[@MrFleit]

in the slide doge isn't the equotation wrong? shouldt it by times 0.04% instead of 0.1% ?

[@DefcampMelderonTV]

yes, its in the errata and fixed on the slides.

[@MrFleit]

@@DefcampMelderonTV oh sorry! didn't check it in the slides.

[@freeman8r]

Shouldnt hit math be ignoring parry/block chance therefor increase theoretical hit/crit chance?

[@vilius8117]

if dps yes. this video contained info relevant for both tanks and melee dps

[@freeman8r]

@@vilius8117 fair. Guess someone that concerned will take it upon themselves to find more information

[@jarretttownsend-sacramento7943]

So whats a good theoretical crit chance on bosses assuming hitting from behind? Ive seen other guides where im supposed to stack crit to 40+%?? is it useless? is there a certain soft cap for crit where its no longer needed?

[@vilius8117]

hard to get that high without world buffs and massive consumables, and wbuffs a bit more annoying to get in classic. more crit is always useful as long as you don't hit crit cap, and synergizes well with typical raiding talents like flurry

[@chrisframe245]

So, do we have a ratio in which we can see how much crit we gain for 1% hit above the normal 9%?

[@SamwiseAjax]

So is Huge Thorium Battleaxe going to be pre-raid BiS for Orc Warriors or what?

[@Raybayize]

What about good ol' Arcanite Reaper?

[@TacynMegan]

If you plan on 2h fury sure

[@fadijaradeh9861]

HI just wanted to ask if i got more than 315 weapon skill like 318 weapon skill well it change anything?

[@fahrradmittelfranken8207]

What data? where was it collected? Right at the start of the video.

[@bilbobaggins7095]

Human mace rogue 310 skill what hit do you need?

[@GendoIkari]

WoW Classic should be based on 1.12.1, right?

[@WarrioJ]

Is the additional 20% miss chance when dual wielding for the off-hand only or for both weapons?

[@wakydawg]

From what I played on the public test, it feels like both weapons.

[@vilius8117]

both weapons for white hits. for yellow hits dw penalty does not apply

[@fyedreams]

Is there any guide like that for casters?

[@vog5197]

What happens to Parry when a mob is lower level than the player? Is the Parry formula known or just the part for mobs at or above your level?

[@MrGlies]

A few questions though, are there anything here that does not apply for feral druids? Obviously since they can't parry they also can't get the parry speed increase, but as far as I can tell all of it SHOULD apply to druids as well.

[@vilius8117]

the weapon skill stuff doesn't apply to ferals, they are calculated as if they always have level * 5 feral weapon skill

[@rashidalbishri7181]

Is this thing applicable to pvp aswell? As a rogue should I focus on weapons skill( there are gear who gives this state) please someone address this matter

[@claytonagol]

any addon to see stats and tell if i stay cap or not.

[@puresoulbliss9635]

So Dr. Melderon you mention that dual wielding increases your chance to miss. That increased chance to miss only applies to the off hand yes?

[@vilius8117]

DW penalty applies to both hands for white hits. It doesn't apply for yellow hits

[@puresoulbliss9635]

@@vilius8117 oooh damn. Interesting. I wonder by what margin your main hand power compared to off hand power has to be to warrant just wielding the main hand and forgoing the offhand. Fascinating!

[@vilius8117]

@@puresoulbliss9635 2h vs dw is complicated, see fight club for more info but at start of phase 1 most people should aim for 2h fury as dps

[@NickAltieri]

I know you’ve said it before but exactly is a glancing blow? Also thank you for compiling this info and making the video.

[@Raybayize]

RPG -wise its a less precise hit from your character, which doesn't connect its force fully to the target (Your swing glances off). Gamemechanic-wise its explained, that it's a chance for every white hit (unmodified auto-attack) that happens.

[@DefcampMelderonTV]

Ray is correct. Its just less damage and you have a 40% to do less damage on anything 3 levels higher than you. In your combat log it will say "glancing"

[@tangovicious4224]

Just to clarify, because I want to be 100 % sure: If I'm a human rogue, I only need 1 % hit from gear, thanks to the 5 % from combat talents, as long as I'm using swords or maces?

[@Ressuu]

Yeah. It's actually even 0,5% if you take +5 weapon skill from talents as well. If there was a weapon that gave another +5 weapon skill (Eg: Maladath or The Hungering Cold) you wouldn't need any +hit from gear.

[@tangovicious4224]

@@Ressuu Thanks! That's insane!

[@dahulius]

That white crit chart talks about fighting a boss from the front, but let's not do that unless you're the tank^^

[@vilius8117]

yeah it was a tank example because that includes all the factors. dps don't have to worry about parry and block if they are behind the mob

[@Necrentaros]

A very interesting video like always. But this wont change the fact, that a tauren fury warrior looks badass even if a orc does more damage. Im looking forward to the raid enviroment and first clear spreadsheets to how much the dps increase or decrease depending on the race. And i have question considering the glancing blows. You stated that a weapon skill increase of 5 points increases your dps by 20%. But i guess in this case you mean 20 percent points, not 20 percent in general, beceause a damage decrease from 35% to 15%, so 20% points, means a damage increase of 133%. This is only considering the glancing blows not the overall dps. I may be mistaken so if somebody has a better understanding of math please explain :) And thanks in general for your glorious shaman videos !

[@vilius8117]

you're correct that the 20% refers to percentage points for the penalty. your glancing blows will hit 31% harder on average by going from 300 to 305 skill. 0.85 / 0.65 = 1.31

[@Bujacasha]

Do you gain any benefit from going beyond 308 weapon skill? Human rogue can go to 310 with racial + talents with swords and even 314 with Maladath from BWL.

[@vilius8117]

tiny benefit to miss and dodge lion's share of the benefit is first 5 points

[@Itakio]

so why is it called a 2 roll system if there are 3 rolls lol "If a hit occurs, then two independent checks are made: one for a block and one for a crit" looks like 3 rolls to me, unless i'm misunderstanding?

[@michaellindner5095]

Nice 2:33 AM upload

[@jupitard]

Nice American education system.

[@OfficialRegulus]

Nice ass

[@Face_Face_]

What server are they gonna be on?

[@CriptedBlaze]

So I am Orc Rogue and I have 5 points in Weapon expertise , does that mean i need only 6% hit rating if I am playing with swords /daggers ? Please someone answer if sees this!

[@DefcampMelderonTV]

that's correct. You will only need 6% if you have 5 points in that talent

[@horkosofdonso7624]

I watched a video of a guy in teir 3 gear tank stratholme. Then i tried it in green gear and we didn’t even get past the first pack of mobs. Do fresh 60ty prots warriors tank differently? Is it necessary to strafe tank large packs? How do you attempt to do that? Is there a Addon that allows you to see the sunder armor next to the mob’s name plate? What’s that addon called? Are there dungeons that fresh 60 tanks ought to stay away from? Because just standing still and using a rotation that a magnificently geared player would’ve otherwise have used don’t work for new tanks. All the tips and tricks and interface addons condensed into 1 fresh 60 nooblord tanking video, please.

[@7r3x1992]

There's a youtuber called Sharmtank that does a lot of videos on tanking for classic for both druids and warriors. He has good content.

[@horkosofdonso7624]

7r3x1992 ok thanks ill check that channel out. Have a good weekend.

[@vilius8117]

@@7r3x1992 i think you mean skarmtank

[@haha1338]

so an exampel on weapon skill, if i play a human (+5 sword skill) rogue with swords i only need 1 point in weapon expertise in combat that gives 3+ weaponskill to get the "cap" ?

[@vilius8117]

to reach the glance soft cap yes

[@tonychantre5284]

So, crit cap for 2h users is crazy high. If I assume that I am behind the boss I only need to worry about Glancing (40%), Dodging (6%), and suppression (4.8%) so 100-46-4.8=49.2. So my crit 'room' would be 49.2%. Am I looking at this correctly?

[@vilius8117]

sort of with 300 wep skill, dodge is 6.5%, miss is 8%, glance is 40%. that leaves 45.5% for hits + crits so that's your white crit cap but you would need 45.5% + 4.8% = 50.3% crit to actually reach that cap

[@vilius8117]

@Ducky1521 3% crit suppression for +3 mobs based on level diff, 1.8% crit aura suppression on top of that for +3 see the github for more details

[@kappamerc]

Any information on how the armor values were discovered?

[@DefcampMelderonTV]

lots and lots and lots of hits, I think they compiled around 16k attacks or more

[@vilius8117]

the 3731 for (most) boss's armor was verified at least 3 ways: old retail vanilla videos and careful math, old wow bestiary, in-game beta advanced combat log on ragnaros most of the armor values for other mobs came from the old bestiary combined with in-beta verification, but there's still a lot of work to do on live

[@mooney3350]

@@vilius8117 Don't forget Beast Lore spell on boss beasts :P

[@vilius8117]

@@mooney3350 for sure! i should also mention that latest beta build has armor turned off in advanced combat log, so that removes our best way to get precise values for non-beasts. not sure if that was intentional but it makes our job a lot harder

[@Wolf-vj9ej]

ok lets say i play Orc 6% hit with axes 26% Crit (-4,8%) = 21,2% on Bosses so i have a 16,6% chance on crit with white hits, Right? To increase my white hit crit chance to 17,6% i need 7% hit in total? if that is correct means: if i have 16% hit my crit cap WH is 26,6%! (i will attack from behind) Please tell me if i am wrong

[@vilius8117]

orc vs boss from behind with dw axes (305 skill) and 6% hit on gear 40% glance 6% dodge 18.4% miss (24.4% - 6%) subtract that from 100% and you are left with 35.6% crit cap

[@veeshan6164]

How do you know that most raid boss on classic will have 3731 armor ?

[@DefcampMelderonTV]

Magey and crew have done tons of homework on this. Essentially, three sources, rag spawn in beta, old content, including videos, logs, and more. There's a third source on this that's escaping me, I'd hit up their discord if you want to know exactly

[@vilius8117]

@@DefcampMelderonTV also inferences from the old wow bestiary that was published

[@rolandhahnlein8158]

So miss and dodge are affected by weapon skill but parry und block are not? What about kritchance? Thought this is affected by weapon skill, too. So wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Weapon_skill is wrong?

[@rolandhahnlein8158]

So? No answer? There are a lot of guides that say that critchance, block and parry are affected by weapon skill. Are they all wrong?