Classical Enlightenment: Healing the World and Screw-ups ~ Shinzen Young

Shinzen answers the questions, "Is classical enlightenment sufficient to heal the world?", and "But how about the people that were supposed to be enlightened that have screwed up?" Filmed at a group process in Jan. 2010 at the Mary and Joseph Retreat Center in Rancho Palos Verdes, C.A.

[@Raina430]

Enlightenment seems like a very hard thing to define. Perhaps its obvious to Shinzen what enlightenment is. To me, it seems like the process is ever changing. Also, it seems many people who are supposedly enlightened have not cleared out childhood pain, but are on " emotional bypass", or " spirit polarization", which is why they " screw up". Anyway, I don't like the term enlightenment, but I love the teaching of Shinzen Young.

[@flower1921]

What does "screw ups" mean in this connection? I know the question is slightly "intellectual" but it sertainly does imply that some "enlightened" people have screwed up..., so I wonder what kind of screw ups we're talking about and what examples do we have of that? The question is really general in a matter which is very ungeneral, because there are so very few enlightened personalities around.

[@cosmofox]

No, it is obvious. It is not an every changing process. I believe the dislike of the word enlightenment is a common affliction of the mind. The word is innocent. When we understand its genuine meaning, there is no dislike.

[@ecologiesofmindfulness564]

Hedgerow - people are allowed to have their opinions... jeezus

[@mattrkelly]

Sounds like shinzen is talking about the ‘zen predator of the upper east side’, eido shimano...

[@squamish4244]

Raina430 Enlightenment does seem to be a very tricky subject, and even Shinzen, despite his clarity on many issues, has not made this one much clearer for me. Many teachers disagree on what constitutes stream entry or enlightenment. (I also wish he would drop the term 'classical enlightenment' as well...I keep wondering, "classical as opposed to what?" XD). The number he quotes here for stream enterers is also staggeringly low, far lower than what some other teachers mention. I've found that Adyashanti has offered by far the clearest descriptions of enlightenment I have ever come across. I think he's done a lot to demystify the term in spiritual circles in general. He actually uses the term 'awakening' instead, to avoid the loaded implications of 'enlightenment'.

[@osmositeequilibria9903]

I can see why shinzen isn't everyone's cup of tea, with how waffling he often is - this is one of many reasons i can't stand eckhart tolle, but i do love how he talks about enlightened people and bad people, rather than do the usual shit about how there's no one to be enlightened, no one to be bad etc

[@markbrad123]

Thats why the precepts are important knowledge(e.g do no harm), not that one has to identify with a center. Find it annoying when some philosophers make their writings sound kind of edgy for something that has no real edges. Recommend avoiding the anything for awareness traps e.g fast cars, unnecessary fights, dares, aversion testing. Wanting enlightenment and creating suffering just don't go with the original Buddhist Sutta.

[@SikhiArt]

@flower1921 They have made mistakes e.g. Sexual harassment.