Why OLED or HDR Can Seem Too Dark, And What Does Brightness Really Mean?

I see people say all the time that HDR, Dolby Vision, or OLEDs are too dim or dark. This video is to show why they appear that way, and why they arent wrong or right.
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[@borgirlol]

too DIMM for you means probably "I cant see shit in dark scenes" for me. My C1 feels perfectly fine for cable TV full hd broadcasting, but when I watch anything else like netflix / hdr 4k movies from my NAS it just feels so damn dark in darker sceness even when I watch in almost completely dark room at night. This is so wrong that user needs to spent hours fiddling every setting and still its just dark.

[@irl-hdr4080]

I really appreciate videos like this which explain the more complex aspects of modern TVs to amateurs like myself. You do an awesome job distilling these complex ideas into simplified and understandable terms.

[@6maxwell99]

I don't care what the director intended I prefer a bright punchy picture over a dim picture any day.

[@oldskool4572]

Agreed.

[@MentalSmarties]

That’s equivalent to saying “I don’t care what the author of this book intended, I’m going to skip this paragraph describing the attributes of the building because it’s boring and I don’t like the way it sounds.” Everyone is entitled to how they view stuff in their home, but there are countless people who work diligently to film and color grade something a certain way. When you’re blowing out details for the sake of a bright image, it’s just a big fuck you to all the people who worked hard on delivering an intended picture. Same as it’s a big fuck you when you skip through paragraphs or pages of a book because you’re bored. You do you, but man, wish you understood the effort people put into every single frame you’re watching.

[@bewhee]

The analogy isn't correct. You don't always have the ideal viewing conditions, like the creator wanted. Or maybe you're just lazy and don't want to bother to turn off the lights. It doesn't matter. You are the content consumer, so you should have every right to consume it the way you want to. Put salt and pepper on your food, even if it's made by a famous chef.@@MentalSmarties

[@shueibdahir]

You seem to misunderstand hdr. Hdr isn't about brightness. It's about DYNAMIC RANGE.

[@6maxwell99]

@@shueibdahir I don't care thats not the way I want to see it

[@kenadams9725]

Actually content nowadays just too dark i litterly can't see anything, don't know what they trying to create like cinematic look or something but we need bright picture. Idk if it's just me only

[@Lasse3]

You kept it classy and informative, subbed! 😄 Lately I've been doing alot of experimentation myself with gamma 2,4.. The difficult part is to have the 'correct' amount of dark image, without it seeming like the APL is below creators intent. But as you pointed out, with the chrome on the car next to Jeremy; You cannot squeeze 'extra' brightness into the picture, you will only compress, the highlights are already fully lit. I think a professional 20 point calibration and a very good monitor, will be necessary to get that perfect SDR image.

[@sherazdotnet]

Great stuff Classy. Can you please do an in depth analysis on HDR for PC gaming please. Now that you have S95B, would be great to see that and know which options in Game mode are right to use. As you know S95B has DTM in game mode and also HGIG but on PC we don't have any way to provide a profile other than what WIn 10 internally has. So which option to use is very confusing.

[@Braconara1981]

Great video mate good work! I get the same impression in my bedroom's CX, however I feel the picture is always bright and punchy regardless of being HDR or SDR on my main room's Qled Q90T

[@noshow]

I really appreciate your channel, but I have some questions here. First how many nits would we measure a 35mm film projection at? From what I understand there is a relationship between size and nits, so a 25" 100 nit screen should be brighter than a 65" one with 100 nit output. Or am I getting this wrong? Second, I work in entertainment (though I don’t master films, so I know less about that). I have shoot footage that ended up in a Dolby Vision mastered production on Netflix, meaning I can look at clips of footage that I literally shot and compare it to the presentation on my C1 to how it looked in real life, and I can tell you in that particular instance cinema dark mode it looks much dimmer and lifeless than the real location, or how I captured the shot. I neither directed nor mastered the film, but at least compared to how I shot it and the real locations, cinema dark can look wrong in exactly the way people describe it, it appears dimmer and lifeless compared to real life. Additionally, the lower 5-10% of shadows can turn into a black soupy mess. Real-life isn’t 100 nits, real life isn’t 1000 nits. If I look at a scene from my window, the light is much brighter than 400 nits. A real-world scene, which we obviously don't measure in nits, but if we did would measure in the 1000s or tens of 1000s, so how is it nothing is lost when we limit the overall scene brightness on a display?

[@rick330]

I do hate the overly mid brightness on the last picture but I like how I can see more green leaves with it on unrealistic bright mode. I wish I could have the not overly bright imagine but still see all the leaves.

[@yogabyaakaash]

I use FMM for SDR and HDR and am quite happy with it for dark room viewing. I also tried ISF DARK for a while but came back to FM. Do you think FM crushes some shadow detail and can looked washed out at times? Or would it be the most accurate mode for SDR/HDR?

[@dominicdo]

I agree with what you said about people getting used to certain levels of brightness. I think a better picture comparison would be to use a dark scene in SDR and then In HDR. I find in HDR i can't even make out what i'm looking at when a dark scene happens and i personally hate it.

[@tac6044]

On my a80k I find SDR to look better than HDR almost100% of the time.

[@guidowinter]

Thats mainly because its probably mastered for a brighter display. Or Some shows need different settings, also every game needs different settings.

[@duckduck8240]

I loved this video. I feel like I’m learning a lot from you Classy so thank you!

[@xm3405]

The colour washout you refer to at higher luminance levels on a WRGB OLED is due to white subpixel dilution destroying colour volume becaus the white subpixel is washout out the colours.

[@kevcordes21]

Great video, how do you switch to SDR on the LG C2?

[@jesseberg6183]

hey classy did you ever do a calibration vid for the 950h?

[@Harrythehun]

How about age and brightness? I’m 47 years now and I feel that I need /want more light/ brightness in tv and movie pictures. My vision has changed a-lot since my younger years.

[@arckanum332]

Nothing wrong with that, you get what you need/want. Don't let anyone tell you what's right and wrong.

[@michaelhoffmann510]

STOP USING "AGE" AND "47" IN ONE SENTENCE (I've jiust turned 46)!!1!

[@antuanos]

Use a LED tv. Oleds are so dark in dark scenes you cant see details as you should.

[@Glupkomatun]

@@arckanum332 i am 41 an a half an i cant see shit on oled ...Qled all the way baby for my crappy eyesight

[@HeavyMetalSonicRM]

@@antuanos LCDs don't show detail in dark scenes because they can't display black. It's a mess of gray.

[@policemanZlatan]

hey, my samsung qn85a unit has a dominant orange tint to pretty much any content involving the color red , movie mode warm 2 and 2.2 gamma , it's especially noticeble in sdr content , hdr looks really accurate...any simple tips to get rid of the tint...thanks?

[@devonpersad]

I went down this rabbit hole recently. After dozens of hours of trying to understand why HDR "isn't very bright" and why my high end TV is underperforming somehow, I thank you very much for every bit of this information. 🙏

[@petedeffner7002]

In one of your a80j videos you gave an option of going into service menu to increase color gains equal to increase brightness. Would that mess up that first multipoint curve you show in this video?

[@ClassyTechCalibrations]

No, combining that with lowering the black level to 49 balances it out to measure the same as default but brighter HDR.

[@michaelwyckoff7593]

Great video. I'm not all that concerned with brightness I'm a picture quality kind of guy. I like my gamma set to 2.4 on my TV because it's comfortable to watch TV for longer periods of time.

[@eisaalshamsi2998]

Bro what name of of software u use I have lg calman I can do like u check these?

[@streamroller1974]

Wish you had more subscribers. You put love into your videos and explaining hell out of it. Ninja AV + You is the most accurate and impactful channels for TV’s Thanks to you I start to get used to HGIG and it blows me away in details. I uploaded a Doom eternal video to try to capture it

[@romeotrinh6415]

Can you show me how the Oled can portrait the sunlight brightness day vs a cloudy day? Because I can’t tell between a Sunyday from Oled vs a cloudy day. Only the new Oled a90j from Sony can not any LG TVs!

[@DocJupiter]

Thanks for this video.. I purchased a LG C1 last week as a supposed upgrade to my KS8000.. and was I wont say shocked but very surprised at how 'dim' it was compared to the KS8000.. I suppose as you say I had grown used to the VERY bright screen.. Will take a bit of time to adjust I suppose, but I do miss the KS8000 brightness tbh.. Maybe an age thing I'm 51 lol

[@antuanos]

Trust me, its not your eyes. Ive tried several OLEDs and you cant see much detail at all in dark scenes. Still the C1 is super bright and feels like looking into the sun in bright scenes. Ill go back to LED. They have normal bright scenes and you can actually see detail in dark scenes.

[@DocJupiter]

@@antuanos Cheers for your reply.. I have got used to the OLED now and very happy with it.. Still have the KS in another room and its fantastic too.. I mostly use my TV's for gaming and as regard to the black levels the game optimizer on the C1 is a game changer.. I don't have any problems with black levels with minor adjustments if they are needed..

[@TheS50b30]

@@DocJupiter did you notice your OLED getting better as months pass and you get more watching hours on it? I got the CX and at first I was really disappointed coming from a QLED by how dim it was and the colors so dull compared to the QLED. But after 3 months I feel like its way brighter than it was at first and the colors got more vivid. I though it was from the software updates the tv got overtime but I read somewhere that OLED do tend to get better after some working hours on them

[@DocJupiter]

@@TheS50b30 It seems to be brighter than when I first got it.. could be software updates or just my imagination lol... Have to say though if I could I would change it for a new QLED but sorta stuck with it now.. Impressive TV, but coming from a previous QLED it just doesn't have the WoW factor I was expecting tbh..

[@TheS50b30]

@@DocJupiter lol dude I have the exact same feeling as well...Im looking to get the samsung qn90a for the wow factor you mentioned ..but to be honest on comparisons they make on youtube I always see the samsung has a washed out screen compared to the OLED...I have to check for myself on a store because it might be the ISO of the camera that they use. My experience with my previous QLED was superb. Im thinking maybe they dont make them so good anymore or the comparisons arent spot on maybe.....unless theyve made tha OLED way better after the updates Im not sure

[@wxman2003]

The vast majority of consumers prefer a brighter screen. They could care less about director's intent.

[@Enveray2510]

Dear Classy, i know its not quite the subject of this video, but i wanted to ask you : does the 2.1 switch you recommended to tech with KG solve the dolby atmos dropouts on the a80j, when the xbox series x is set to 120 hertz ??? The dropouts are also on the TV speakers, so i wanna know, if this device can fix this problem. You are a very trusty and well informed guy so i wanted to ask you on this subject. Thank you !

[@ClassyTechCalibrations]

I don't know. If I do end up getting the Sony again I will get that switch and test it out.

[@Enveray2510]

@@ClassyTechCalibrations Thanks for your fast respond !

[@timeflex]

Yes. The HDR is about range (it is hdR after all), not about just brightness. Therefore I'd expect the identical real-life scenes filmed in SDR and in HDR and shown in the same settings to be nearly identical, though HDR one would exhibit more details in extremely bright AND in extremely dark areas. I'm thinking of it from the digital photography perspective and what HDR means there.

[@devonpersad]

Your first sentence really put it into perspective for me. Range not only brightness. hdR 🥴

[@Tomek_Zyla]

Great video. What about Filmaker mode in LG C2? It has Dynamic Tone Mapping on and everyone says this picture mode is the most accurate. Should I also tuurn off Dynamic Tone Mapping in the Filmaker mode?

[@ClassyTechCalibrations]

Yes DTM should be off

[@Tomek_Zyla]

@@ClassyTechCalibrations Can I have one more question please? What is the point of the DTM if everyone says that it should be off?

[@colefellner5718]

At this point is it safe to say a none calibrated display in game mode is going to be a tad closer to “accurate” with boost on due to lifting of some black crush?

[@444chroma]

Must be interesting showing up to calibrate a client's TV and they're clearly pushing SDR content to within an inch of its life. Of course they have colour temp on ice-cold blue and the motion interpolation is cranked up. Like, hmmm...they may not like what I'm about to do 😂

[@Lasse3]

What I pay my calibrator guy to do is to find the most accurate mode out of the box, and most accurate color temperature. From there he needs to do a 20 point White balance, which will correctly adjust the EOTF, and the color temperature (the White point) Done separately for both SDR and HDR. He also needs to calibrate color space rec07, dci-p3 and bt2020. If I prefer motion smoothness and smoother gradiation, I'll adjust that myself. I don't need a calibrator to tell me that.

[@alexsaraceno6144]

Classy, what picture mode on the A90J / A80J do you recommend to watch SDR content (any show) and to watch a Football ? And what about an SDR Blu day like season 10 of The Walking Dead I just purchased ?

[@ClassyTechCalibrations]

I would always use the custom picture mode, but for sports you might like standard more.

[@alexsaraceno6144]

@@ClassyTechCalibrations Thanks for relying back man. Standard Mode it is for sports. I didn’t know until you mentioned yesterday in your video that people keep things on one setting without changing it for different content. Just now for the Blu ray for any show, Vikings, Season 10 of The Walking Dead, should I just leave it on Custom ? Or pq would look better in Standard Mode with an SDR Blu ray. Sorry to bother you man. This is the question I really have.

[@ClassyTechCalibrations]

@@alexsaraceno6144 Custom is the closest to accurate out of the box mode, and what I would personally use for viewing movie and TV show content. You can adjust the brightness, motion, and clarity settings to your liking.

[@alexsaraceno6144]

@@ClassyTechCalibrations Got it. Standard for Sports. Custom for everything else. Thanks man. Been confused for the longest time. Appreciate it.

[@colefellner5718]

2.2 at higher brightness settings or do you keep to 1886?

[@jackw9568]

That Matrix scene isn't anywhere close to worst case scenario for OLEDs because 25% of the screen is covered by black letterbox bars. Try the daytime and snow scenes from the full-screen Spears and Munsil disc. No OLED can display these type of scenes correctly just as no LCD can display dark scenes with very small highlights correctly.

[@zoominginonstuff8146]

Yeah, exactly. This is why I sold my Z9G and am going A90j. Overall for most content I watch, The A90J looks better. Also when watching SDR I am calibrated to 160 nits.

[@leapingtortoise]

Great video! I have a five year old LCD that's not great at this. SDR is way brighter but I can't seem to limit SDR content brightness. The tv just pushes it all to max. Also, I think we have the same computer case. Cooler Master

[@ClassyTechCalibrations]

I have a Phanteks. My wife has a cooler master though.

[@tarikschmalhaus9385]

you opened my eyes on all this hdr gimmics thank you, now i know i should not bother and care of geting my self the best hdr tv. i have a sony x85j that has i think close to 700 nits and was fearing that i was missing out in hdr but i dont i have very good contrast on it and color gamut is hight so yes that helped me alot.

[@zztop7000]

HDR seems very dark is this natural? Because in 4k projector it's dark I have to adjust my brightness

[@formeitwastuesday.1515]

Best explanation Ive gotten so far.

[@romeotrinh6415]

I can see what modes or what kind brightness the filmmakers want you to see but the bottomline is the brightness from sunset will be different than sunrise and the brightness of a noontime will be different from a very cloudy day start to rain! I will buy tv that I will enjoy the realistic images instead just good black but crushing every detail of the pictures

[@user-oy7gz5bf2h]

Just got an A80j to replace an old Plasma and in many cases, it seems too dim. In HDR (not calibrated, mind you) It's much darker than what I would get with my old tv even at night. And in the day time with everything cranked up, it's just a bit better.

[@tac6044]

I have the exact same experience on my a80k coming from a ST60 plasma. HDR simply doesn't look right. Bright scenes are blinding at times and then a dark scene comes on on its so dim all detail is lost. Other times HDR is dull, dim and flat the whole way through. I completely disabled HDR on my Firestick Max and its made my OLED come to life. It now looks like a perfect plasma. Virtually everything looks better in SDR on OLED. It's counter intuitive and people have a hard time accepting this but its true nonetheless. It's not just a little better but worlds better. So much more vibrant and cinematic.

[@michaelbowler565]

So how can we go about keeping the right colours but having a bright screen?

[@vagval7884]

This is archaic. All these standards that have to do with sdr are like over 40-50 years old and have not evolved. Just because tv tech could not produce light (or cinema for that matter), it does not mean that this should be the 'standard' in 2021 I mean really. People who use words like 100nits is 'reference' don't really think that in reference to what? 40 years ago or 50 and where technology was way back then? In filmmaker mode you can barely make out anything at all absolutely and it is supposed to be a scene that depicts bright sunshine. Enough said.

[@ClassyTechCalibrations]

The majority of new content is now created in HDR or Dolby Vision. That is generally 1000, 4000, or 10,000 nits and using the DCI-P3 color space instead of rec709.

[@socratese5]

Thanks for this. The brightness nowadays is ridiculous. I’ve always wanted to know what’s it supposed to be at according to creative intent. 👍🏽

[@neilcampbell4833]

Great video. Pretty much everywhere online there's people saying you need TVs with nit's of around 600 and above to enjoy HDR content. I think HDR is all over the place just now. My TV has only 300 nit's HDR content can be good but other times colour looks washed out and dull. Peoples faces can be orange or slightly green. Jeremy Clarkson facial colour looks a bit of in your picture example he looks like he's got fake tan 😅 I've watched countless episodes of top gear and never seen look like the tango man. Sports programs are terrible and too dull . I still prefer SDR content overall unless you have a large TV you wouldn't really tell the difference from SDR in normal viewing distance. Try watching house of dragons, game of thrones or John wick 3 for example you loose a lot of detail on HDR settings also characters disappear altogether that's not what TV experience is about

[@ronaldgreen9167]

I totally disagree with the considered accurate color brightness settings. Main reason everyone and thier eyes interpret color and brightness very different. Plus age plays a very big role in how light enters the eye. I have an oled, cx and samsung qn90a and I can tell you the content you are watching very much determines which will give you the best picture. I hate watching dark movies on my oled it looks horrible in some scenes. And sports are not the best on it. But other times the colors look more natural... it completely depends on the content

[@ronaldgreen9167]

One last point. I've seen 2 other people do a real world brightness vs oled brightness and the oled is never close to what real world brightness is. That ABL won't let it

[@sj460162]

Interesting video this. I enjoy the tone mapping on and the dazzling sun scenes. I perfer this type of image, to me I feel its more realistic than dark areas the sun should be lighting.

[@SportsIncorporated]

I want to be able to see what's on the screen on my laptop or phone outside of a dark room. Preferable outside. Recently, I couldn't read the Google Maps navigation instructions.

[@bewhee]

I think this is why my Samsung TV defaults in Movie mode has auto brightness on for SDR (and max brightness set to 23/50) and then for HDR auto brightness off and max brightness 50/50. Somehow it made sense for me even before I saw this video. But still, I prefer my HDR content brighter than they intend (the creators) so I have my tone mapping set to active but turn down the brightness. This way, for a very dark movie I can turn it up if needed, but usually in the evening I keep it to about 30/50.

[@all8273]

I'm trying to figure out why RDR2 snowy scenes with bright blue skies (like the should be in real life) look close to sepia tone when I turn on HDR, and the weird thing is, when I put this video in full screen mode, the video looks green and purple... I think this might be a problem with my monitor. I watched 7 minutes of the video thinking this was normal until I put it back in windowed mode and realized the colors look normal and the brightness stuff would have made more sense if I watched it in windowed mode.

[@3dgelord187]

That particular game is mapped in SDR, in an HDR container. Basically fake HDR.

[@theshadowdirector]

It's a shame SDR brightness is often neglected, redirecting in computer monitors where you'll be in SDR most of the time. The manufacturers seem to hide the SDR values most of the time and focus on marketing the peak HDR brightness which they may not understand is not what they'll be seeing most of the time. I can say that OLED's contrast does kind of compensate for the lack of brightness in terms of clarity.

[@socratese5]

Question so what should we have Oled light at when watching HDR or Dolby vision content v in a dim room? Because 100 seems too bright. No? And what about peak brightness? Low med of high? Thanks Classy

[@ClassyTechCalibrations]

In HDR or Dolby Vision you always leave it alone at its max, even in a dark room. The majority of the content is still in SDR brightness range, and you don't want to dim down the HDR highlights. If your eyes get fatigued getting a good bias lighting kit is helpful, like the medialight MK2.

[@socratese5]

@@ClassyTechCalibrations got it thanks classy. What about peak brightness?

[@ClassyTechCalibrations]

@@socratese5 Always have it on high for HDR and dont use it in SDR unless you have a bright room and really need it.

[@socratese5]

@@ClassyTechCalibrations perfect thank you! I haven’t seen this thorough information before. Just got a C1 and was a little confused with all the settings etc. But your videos explained it and helped a lot. I’m like you i like an accurate picture Not an overly bright one and this info is great Also I’m really impressed with the C1 I was worried about blacks crush etc But this TV has tremendous shadow detail. I have a Kuro elite calibrated by D nice and i compared shadow detail and picture and It’s it’s superb in my opinion, like having an updated Kuro, with hdr and 4k Great TVs! A lot of people don’t know what they are talking about when it comes to Brightness etc and there are a lot of misconceptions regarding Oled more specifically the newer ones. Glad you are providing accurate information. Thanks again. 👍🏽

[@ClassyTechCalibrations]

@@socratese5 I just uploaded a video about shadow detail or black crush. There are instances where it is an issue, and some where its not. But it is fixable with a little effort.

[@artandrade1]

I have sony 65 a80j, what picture setting do you recommend for semi bright room. I do watch movies in dark room.

[@ClassyTechCalibrations]

The custom picture mode preset is very good out of the box. Just make sure to have the ambient light sensing and energy save features turned off.

[@petedeffner7002]

@@ClassyTechCalibrations Is “custom for pro 1” the same as “custom” when saying it’s good OOTB?

[@jamesvolpe3581]

@@ClassyTechCalibrations I do not like custom it makes the picture look more dim! I know they say that is the best settings but standard looks brighter with better color, I know you say your eyes will get used to the warmer settings mine didn't!

[@ClassyTechCalibrations]

@@jamesvolpe3581 you can change the color temperature on any of the picture mode presets.

[@ClassyTechCalibrations]

@@petedeffner7002 yeah

[@joker927]

Bright rooms demand bright panels. Our pupils are constricted, right? When I say my C1 is not bright enough in HDR in my lit living room during the day, I mean that it can't overcome reflections and shadow detail is lost. I'm fine losing bright highlights if the overall light coming from the panel is increased. But I can't disable HDR in apps or on TV. I'll try HDR tone mapping.

[@3dgelord187]

Control your lighting

[@joker927]

@@3dgelord187 thanks. Easier said than done. WAF comes into play.

[@AngelicRequiemX]

Excellent explanation! Funny enough, when I first bought my LG C9 I thought it was too bright, as it was straining my eyes, especially in HDR because I had been using a Panasonic plasma TV for over a decade and never owned a LED TV so I never understood the complaints of OLEDs being "too dark" . If a LG OLED is too dark, I don't even want to imagine how bright a Vizio Quantum X tv with 3000 nits is in a dark room, at max brightness would be. It's probably almost unwatchable, at least for me.

[@showtekk2607]

Yep, similar situation here I had a Panasonic plasma then got a C9 which is much brighter. I leave it on 25 OLED light for SDR

[@AngelicRequiemX]

@@showtekk2607 Same here. I keep mine at 27 OLED light, which measured about 100 nits with my colorimeter. And I use 45 OLED light during the day which is under 200 nits, I think around 160 nits if I remember correctly.

[@AngelicRequiemX]

@@jarekzaharyAnytime. I have a LG C9, same as you.

[@Garret141076]

To be honest I was a bit disappointed about HDR and the LG C2 TV. Dark scenes are very dark but bright scenes hurt my eyes so I turned down brightness but than dark scenes are crushed and contrast also seems to high. Maybe I'm used to LCD TV where average brightness seems more neutral where dark is brighter and highlights less bright. I changed a lot of settings like black point, gamma and turned off tone mapping and it looks better to me now.

[@ashgrey7307]

i also have the same brand of tv and the hdr makes all my games super dark and when i record, it's over saturated

[@dante19890]

Oled is def bright enough for SDR without question. Its only with HDR it could be improved. Ideally u atleast want an oled that could hit 1000 nits on highlights combined with higher 100 percent fullscreen brightness for high apl HDR scenes to look more realistic. Maybe when LG gets a heatsink out combined with an even more refined evo panel that could be true.

[@ye-rochawkins5432]

@@jarekzahary lol and you don’t know wtf your talking about. Again, how embarrassing for you. You’re understanding of display technology, and how the content is created and mastered is so limited… An OLED is about as close to SDR perfection as you can get, and can be used a a reference.

[@ye-rochawkins5432]

This is spot on!

[@ye-rochawkins5432]

@@jarekzahary Ummm excuse me? Who’s head is closed? Who thinks they know it all? Who thinks SDR is supposed to be 1,000 nits? You!!!! Not me…you! Anything over 300 nits is considered HDR btw…just in case you weren’t aware. Which I’m sure you weren’t. The fact you think SDR is superior to HDR…tells me you have a shit TV too.

[@dante19890]

@@jarekzahary its vastly exceed sdr specification so yes it is. If u have a bight room with alot of windows and u need to combat glare... thats a different story.

[@dante19890]

@@jarekzahary NO.. if u are in a dark room u dont want a sdr at 500 nits.. cuz that will hurt your eyes and overbrighten everything When u go to the movie theather... the movies are around 50-70 nits only.

[@rash5118]

Hey! Really love your channel, and u right about it.Thats why im still in love with b9 in our bedroom.

[@TravionMusic]

So for Sony tv’s the creators intent will be Dolby Vision Dark opposed to Dolby Vision Bright?

[@ClassyTechCalibrations]

Yes

[@beetleburper9440]

I don't know LG c1 just seems dark even in sdr my LG c8 seems brighter ?? Am I just imagining things ?

[@BlackBruceLeeTheGreatDekuTree]

Take a video we'd love to see!

[@pierrevangrootenbrill7073]

Idem for me on a new G4 LG. So bummed out by the film maker mode. I wish they could create presents for bright and dark room. If you're an fan of the gardian of the galaxy / mandalorian and that kind of content, you'd find it's almost impossible to distinguish things on your screen in dark scenes. In daytime when there's light in the room, i need to use vivid mode and reduce contrast, color to my liking. I wouldn't call myself a purist but in the past the use of vivid mode would have been a big no no . i wish they could come up with an update to add a preset that would work better in dark scenes.

[@did3d523]

you said bullcheet... oled hdr are too dark on SONY ... if you increase brightness you see detail become visible but black band cinemascope become grey.... What shit ! AND CONTRAST SETTING ISNT a REEL CONTRAST SETTING ON ALL OLED !!!

[@jennifergala]

Oled is an amazing TV technology. I returned my C1 due to image retention from my PC and is too dark compared to my 8K TV. If I ever buy again to try will be the Sony A80J.

[@AngelicRequiemX]

Did you generally watch your C1 in a bright room or a dark room?

[@jennifergala]

@@AngelicRequiemX A normal room with one window. If I want to achieve the same brightness in SDR with my Samsung as the OLED I have to put my backlight to 10. Even in HDR the C1 was not bright compared to my QLED. The C1 can go max around 750 nits my QLED around 1700 is a huge difference. Brightness wasn't my problem though. It was just by working on my PC editing videos on Da Vinci Resolve I had image retention and that was scary. I don't know how people are using this TV as a PC monitor but it didn't work for me. I paid almost 3000$ CAD and is a lot of money to burn on a TV that can be destroyed due to burn in.

[@ClassyTechCalibrations]

For productivity usage as a monitor I wouldn't recommend OLED. But for PC gamers who don't do much productivity or normal desktop use, then it makes sense.

[@AngelicRequiemX]

@@jennifergala I gotcha. Yeah, I been using my LG C9 as my primary PC monitor for over a year and didn't suffer any burn-in. Of course, I take some pre-cautions such as keeping my desktop with a black background and using a screen saver like the good ol CRT days, but I can't complain at all. Also, image retention is quite a normal thing when it comes to OLED and plasma TVs, it does not mean that your TV is burning-in necessarily. It tends to disappear usually within 30 seconds, nothing to be afraid of.

[@jennifergala]

@@AngelicRequiemX I like bright wallpapers and the taskbar was there of course like normal use. I guess is not for me. I'm very happy with my 8K Samsung TV. Also the resolution is crispier than the C1 when playing 4K content. For 1080p thé C1 was better. For 8K there's no contest. I also found how important is brightness for HDR content. Thx.

[@charlesfarris7566]

I stopped mega scrutinizing my screen purchases as, if I looked hard enough, I always found flaws. I had a Sony LED I bought ~'18 or '19 (don't recall the model) and I purchased an a80j OLED last year. I did read the forums prior to purchasing the OLED - I'm definitely in the camp that watches after hours and I turn out all the lights. I like both but they are different viewing experiences. My subjective opinion is that if you like a picture that really pops, then I'd give the edge to the LED. That being said, the OLED really shines on dark content. On the LED, the darker scenes would definitely drown out. I'm not disappointed with the OLED - I mean I really enjoy the picture. Having said that, I think the benefit I see in OLED is very limited. For sports and general use, I enjoy the LED. But I'm not a serious video-phile - in the end, it's just a matter of what I like and prefer. I don't hate either - they're just different and I can see that if you're accustomed to that mega-bright picture, OLED will seem disappointing.

[@bewhee]

@14:40 this looks to me exactly how it should look during the day. Bright sunlight should look the same even when you're watching during the night. I don't care that the creator did not intend this. It's daylight FFS!

[@reviewforthetube6485]

There is a reason even tho i own the a90j I still use gradation preffered and dolby dark lol. I even enjoy using no dtm on regular hdr at times. Sure it undershoots but hot damn it looks so good and deep. Also the processor is boosting highlights regardless so everything still pops 3 dimensionality at its finest. Then you have some other people who always use cinema home on lg and always use brightness preffered on sony, you know what if they like it thats all that matters. I do believe there are benefits of oled tvs getting brighter but it isn't oh the tvs entire image can get brighter. Its the benefits of how that extra brightness can be used I'm certain key areas. There can be some real true magic done to the image when used correctly. Again why I like using the more accurate modes for tracking. I like placement more then just as bright as it can get. I love the extra pop on highlights while also maintaining an accurate apl. I can't wait to see the future and how we see this extra brightness being used even further for oled. I jsut hope they don't push it to far to where it goes beyond a 1k nit reference oled and how that displays the image and highlights as I feel it's perfect at that level.

[@yjt9930]

I concur with everything you said. I do the exact same thing on my 77 a80j.

[@MrTonybirdi]

What’s the best settings for the A90J?

[@reviewforthetube6485]

@@MrTonybirdi gradation preffered dynamic tone mapping, black level 48-49 up to you, I love to use black adjust on at least low, up to you if you want live color or not, to me that can really make the image look good I mean this of course isn't a calibrated image I'm just talking in the aspect of what looks good on the tv if yoy pull it out of the box you can mess with these settings and get any type of image you want mess with the levels of each and enjoy now when in sdr make sure to put gamma to -2 also if you want in game mode there is a color space called Adobe rgb sure it's not accurate but damn the color in games can be insane with that on. Completely up to you tho just mess with all the settings you will find what you like. Nothing is wrong as long as your eyes like it thats what matters. Now if you want to most accurate image get it further calibrated. Tbh out of the box it's damn good even with the settings as is if you are looking for that natural accurate image.

[@NightmareonAnyStreet_]

@@MrTonybirdi avs forum a90j owners thread

[@MrTonybirdi]

@@NightmareonAnyStreet_ ok thanks mate

[@ryans413]

Directors are using an old standard in Hollywood because it’s cheap only a few really have dived into producing movies shows with brighter scenes. Question how many people watch a certain scene from a show or movie and you are left saying a can’t see s**t. I have if that’s the directors vision I’m sorry that’s crap but it’s been made on an old standard not suitable for today’s viewing. When directors actually dive into the new tech we have today those films always look the best with these bright TVs. This dark ugly scenes we can’t see we end up finally seeing detail on a bright screen. Yes colour gets washed out only because you haven’t switched your TVs colour gamut to BT2020 that improves the colour with the bright image. I love a brighter image that still shows good blacks and good detail in dark scenes. The old way is garbage time to get with the times directors are starting too so should you guys I’m all for s brighter experience

[@did3d523]

if you feel image to dark its your falt ?? Serious ?? HAHAHHHAHHAHHAHA!

[@Gustavo-en3uv]

I do not want to get into controversy, but personally I look for a technology that can reflect what the human eye captures, if you measure the lighting outside on a regular day basic is around 2000 nits, if the panel cannot reach that amount means you can't recreate that content, is not a representation of the actual image the same way otherwise if you can't recreate a perfect black we lose detail as well. My question how many people buy a television to watch dark content? The reality is that the industry seeks to create bright colors to the eye.

[@sholmesbrown]

I also hate dark details in HDR... I've just bought an OLED and no matter what people in AVS forums say when I'm watching Westworld and 2 cowboys sit down in the saloon it's not "correct" or "lifelike brightness" having their clothes look almost pitch black with hardly any details. I'm had to mess around with my RGP range, black level and tone mapping to get the picture looking good in dark scenes. I don't care what anyone says. I know the video shouldn't look like a black dark mess. I want details! I've got my black levels still very close to ink black on parts of the panel where letterbox bars are so I know the screen can be black when it is supposed to be. I've got no brightness settings changed or post processing being done anywhere but the TV screen so if the video wants to be black it is.

[@candyrub1105]

In gaming mode hdr is very dark.

[@ye-rochawkins5432]

Applause 👏 👏👏👏👏

[@Molybed1]

There is becoming a disconnect between some companies and consumers. I remember the days when FujiFilm started to kill Kodak. People preferred FujiFilm films because they took BRIGHTER and more COLORFUL photographs. Keep NOT giving consumers what they want and you'll end up out of business.

[@jackrichards1703]

Not for me not bright enough for me....Mini Led for me Philip's probably is for me

[@wodensthrone5215]

I use Dolby Vision Dark, I don't watch TV in a bright area.

[@stephenpatterson8056]

Personally, when I say OLEDs are too dim, what I'm referring to is specifically HDR peak highlight brightness. Taking that Grand Tour image as an example, that sun glinting off of the chrome above the rear window should be hitting 1,000+ nits. (I believe the Grand Tour is graded at 1,000 nits) An OLED will not allow that sun reflection to come anywhere CLOSE to 1,000 nits. And the point of HDR is to present video content in a "real life" manner. And in real life, the sun reflecting off of that chrome would make you squint, cover your eyes, or put on sunshades. THAT'S how it was meant to look. And OLEDs at the moment can't do that. As far as SDR goes, it's honestly a toss up between OLED and a good LCD. Both technologies can look extremely good and even similar. It's in HDR rendering where you get big differences in how the different techs present. And for me personally, lacking those HDR highlights is a bigger detractor than LCDs having slightly imperfect blacks depending on the scene.

[@showtekk2607]

I'm not an expert but HDR highlights on my lg c9 in a dark room are bright enough to leave an after image in my eyes (like when you look at the sun accidentally) I don't think I'd want it much brighter honestly

[@stephenpatterson8056]

@@showtekk2607 The issue with that sort of thought, however, is that it contradicts the "accuracy" argument put forth by this video. If a content creator is grading content with 1,000 nit highlighta and viewing it on a 1,000 nit reference monitor but your OLED taps out at 700 nits, that's inaccurate. Just like the boosting of mid tones mentioned in the video is inaccurate. The issue for me is that the lack of brightness is much more noticeable and can't be solved for. Most of the other issues mentioned can be mitigated in one way or another by calibration. But a lack of brightness is just that. ABL is also definitely a problem in some scenarios. The films Lucy and The Matrix come immediately to mind as featuring scenes that ABL would ruin the look of. Full screen high brightness white scenes. Also, don't watch TV in pitch darkness. Use bias lighting, no matter what sort of display you have.

[@stephenpatterson8056]

@@showtekk2607 kzbin.info/www/bejne/joHdfmaEeayoicU This is a good explainer as to why peak brightness is important for HDR.

[@stephenpatterson8056]

@@showtekk2607 kzbin.info/www/bejne/hoO2nmWsbMeZjNE Also this for some perspective

[@ClassyTechCalibrations]

Just because it's mastered in HDR with 1000, 4000, or 10,000 nits capabilities doesn't mean every highlight will hit those peaks. It depends on many factors. And for very small fine highlights OLED is able to get brighter than LCD. LCD can push very high average picture level but as areas get smaller they lose brightness. The QN90A measures highest at 25% window size and drops well below 1000 as the window keeps getting smaller. Per pixel control helps not only black level, but luminance as well.

[@chinogambino9375]

When you brighten the shot of the Grand Tour is just looks better, in real life you would be squinting because of the direct sun hitting objects; even on an average day its really bright and not a measily 12 or 50 nits coming off any surface. I'm just going by eye but I don't think any TV is getting bright enough average picture level to be truly life like and HDR isn't that impressive as a result. OLED isn't even close, if Morpheus is meant to be standing in a field of blue grey then the artists intent sucks.

[@user-jy7yw5kw3w]

Depends on your eyes honestly. Oled is plenty. I have light blue eyes and staring at a screen 400 nits+ is too much but someone with brown eyes it might seem dim or bearable to them since their eyes don't absorb as much light. My girl has brown eyes and she'll be in bed on her iphone at max brightness I have to tell her to turn it down, I'll be asking her doesn't that bother your eyes?! 😂 "Nope"

[@rick330]

I would still watch his daytime setting in the dark not because I want it brighter but I want to see the dark areas. If I'm playing witcher 3 in hdr sometimes I can't even see a door because it's all black just looked there is a lot of black instead of green trees in the filmmaker setting. Only watched first 6 minutes so far though because my kid is crazy.

[@ClassyTechCalibrations]

For most people I completely understand that. I wonder what you would prefer though if it was calibrated, and could make out the dark area detail without the entire range being brightened.

[@rick330]

@@ClassyTechCalibrations I've only gotten through 6 minutes because of my kid. As long as I could still make out detail I'd prefer darker more accurate. I literally can't see doors if it's cloudy or night and I get stuck in a house looking for doors I can't see lol. Unless I brighten the game or switch to sdr so I know the door is supposed to be visible.

[@erfgthygreas1709]

@@ClassyTechCalibrations so if c1 is not calibrated is it better to use ISF bright ?

[@tylerthere5832]

Boutta create a black hole so I can watch Hdr inside of it.

[@Molybed1]

IDGAF about charts. THE PICTURE IS TOO DARK. Its this attitude in the industry that has caused most people to still buy DVDs over Blu Ray and why UHD Blu Ray is pretty much DEAD. STOP putting out a accurate picture and put out a PRETTY picture.

[@oldskool4572]

Oled panels are not bright enough for displaying hdr content. Simple as that.

[@HeavyMetalSonicRM]

Seems to me that complaining about OLED brightness is the same as complaining about burn in. It's not an issue and most of those who complain don't even own one. Can't afford one? Constantly trash it and praise your junk LCD to make yourself feel better.

[@chinogambino9375]

I returned a C1 because i was too dim unless content had black bars. If you cannot notice ABL kicking in or the artificial limited SDR brightness on LG oled you are just blind or in plain denial. Its embarrassing how crap some content looks on these TVs.

[@michaelscott466]

OLED cannot display HDR properly. If you own an OLED you have never seen true HDR, you have only seen an attempt at HDR. I have owned a C9 then bought a a80k and finally a C2 before I switched to the qn90b qled. HDR on the qled is a completely different experience, it is night and day different from OLED HDR. I cannot stress this enough and I find myself absolutely shocked at how much better the qn90b is than any of the OLEDs I have owned. I fully expected to hate it and almost returned it before I even opened it to try it. Even black level is just as good as OLED 95% of the time. Its an incredible TV and the closest I have ever seen to plasma in color production and motion handling. HDR is simply breadth taking on this thing and I feel like I sacrificed nothing by switching to qled from OLED but I gained a whole lot. I do believe the qn90b is a standout and most qleds are likely not this good but holy cow, this thing is a true OLED killer.

[@ClassyTechCalibrations]

This is actually backwards. The OLEDs are better at HDR, where you are viewing HDR content manipulated to be more like SDR with higher APL luminance.

[@michaelscott466]

@@ClassyTechCalibrations you are one of the first calibrators I've heard that claims OLED handles HDR better than flagship QLED. It's pretty universally accepted that QLED is better with HDR content. Of course a lot of other aspects are very debatable but this one is pretty commonly accepted.

[@ClassyTechCalibrations]

@@michaelscott466 HDR is absolute, and not about brightness. Shadow detail with real black level and dark room viewing is required for what HDR is intended to be. LCDs lose every TV shootout because of this. It's not close. LCDs are for bright room, not accurate critical viewing.

[@michaelscott466]

@@ClassyTechCalibrations Yes HDR is meant for dark room viewing, however, even then you are not seeing the full impact of HDR on OLED. They are simply not bright enough and must use processing tricks to compensate. Also for mixed use, as most use their sets for, a qn90b will utterly destroy ANY OLED with HDR content. It is a far more impactful experience and not even close. Even with low light scenes, shadow detail and black level on these new flagship QLED are very close to OLED. I was blown away at how good black level is on this set and this was my biggest concern. 90% of the time a person would see no difference between a qn90b and OLED blacks. What I get with this TV as opposed to OLED is- almost 3x peak brightness, no burn in risk, No ABL and much better mix use HDR performance. What did I sacrifice- very minor dark room performance in blacks. Even the motion handling on the QLED is better than OLED as is build quality. I haven't been this impressed with a new TV since the first time I bought a high end plasma. HDR impact is so gigantically better. Also this is a light hearted debate so please don't take it as me being a jerk!

[@ClassyTechCalibrations]

@@michaelscott466 everything you are describing is preference which is fine, however what I am talking about is objective reference. The QN90B is good, for an LCD. But no LCD comes close to proper reproduction of dark scenes or the contrast of an OLED in regular scenes. There's only a handful of scenes in all HDR content that is graded above 1,000 nits. The difference from 1000 nits to 2,000 nits is smaller visually than the difference between 0.05nit black level and 0.0005nit black level. HDR is about having a high amount of range and that doesn't mean just the high end. What the Samsung is doing is making everything in the image brighter than it is supposed to be creating a more SDR look with less dynamic range and contrast. If you like that look then that's great but that is not what HDR is supposed to be.

[@romeotrinh6415]

This video brightness is nothing to me I don’t like this kind of pictures dark as a cloudy day just like rainy soon or the sun will set in minutes

[@tonemack2981]

Yeah honestly too me 4k without HDR is great. It's bright and pops if you have a quality TV no need for HDR when the medadata might darken your overall scene

[@DietonightLiveforevr]

Fuck hdr. So sick of playing call of duty on game hdr settings dark as fuck yet standard hdr is normal brightness.

[@OMG_BeCkY]

My Sony OLED is stupid dark in dark scenes. Like unwatchable dark. Everything is lost to the black void! I hate this TV with a passion.

[@madln5070]

What tv do you have?

[@OMG_BeCkY]

@@madln5070 A8H

[@madln5070]

@@OMG_BeCkY I have the a80j, mine washes out the image when theres a dark scene LOL.

[@OMG_BeCkY]

@@madln5070 Weird... that totally defeats the purpose of an OLED

[@madln5070]

@@OMG_BeCkY I know lol, good thing is I could return it, so I did it. Ill give LG a try and see if its any different.

[@jonathanoxlade4252]

Another problem is HDR Is a scam there is no true metadata for it yoi can't calibrate it properly Hdr is not true hdr there are no cameras to take flat hdr picture and show different levels of exposure Meaning hdr games are bullshit until the hdr thing is solved I don't recommend hdr Even ray tracing is not there yet nvida states needs 29 years to perfect ray tracing real time ray tracing is the future but it has its own isues we are paying money for For unfinished tools 🔧 Hdr is a tool its unfinished Ray tracing unfinished Microled technology more of a pipe dream And cameras that can shoot In hdr don't exist yet so why are we loving hdr when it's a load of bullshit Scrach that that's a big pile of shit

[@ClassyTechCalibrations]

Utterly false

[@jonathanoxlade4252]

Utterly true I won't touch hdr till it sorts itself and have proper display technology to support it at 10000nits 12bit colour comes out Sdr tho for me due to oled burn in Ile be using 100nits darkroom due to reflection

[@NFSINSANE]

I spent $1400 on a Sony A90J just to be disappointed by how dark the tv is compared to my $500 Vizio QLED. I figured "how much darker can an OLED be? My buddy keeps praising his A80J?" ALOT, a lot darker. That's how much. I don't know whats so wrong with brilliance.