Tesla Model 3: LFP vs 2170 Batteries in Cold | Don't Make a Mistake!

[@Cleanerwatt]

Go to nordvpn.com/cleanerwatt to get a 2-year plan + 4 months free with a huge discount. It’s risk free with Nord’s 30 day money-back guarantee!

[@FrankGallagherr]

Tesla is the best car company ever no gas stations no oil changes no smog check no corrupt dealerships no catalytic converter no dealer mark up above MSRP! Oh and I have a lot of Tesla stocks

[@Andersljungberg]

I don't know where you live, but here in Sweden people can go into the gas station to buy sausages or something else to eat, maybe also to wash the windshield of the car or buy something completely different. at a Swedish petrol station there may be ice cream There may be soft drinks pizzas etc

[@James-cq9dp]

i have lfp in chicago and do no planning and it works amazingly.

[@PaulSmith-tn4yu]

You charge your car just before leaving home, stop 2 hrs later for less than 15 mins to supercharge, drive another 1.5 hrs and supercharge for 15 mins and repeat. Your battery stays warm and you get much better results than what you show. That IS real world results. I know from experience.

[@oj9886]

in no gas car you need to stop every 2 hrs

[@myaccount__7269]

@@oj9886o wow. I had no idea . This is such a helpful and new comment. You must know a lot of stuff and are very smart.

[@garyclack3807]

Man you know smart when you see it 😂

[@shou635]

@@oj9886you do know that every EV owner has owned a gas car, right? Almost every Tesla owner would never go back to gas. You do know that on daily driving needs, no need to stop and charge, right? It’s been long enough now that you should be able to comprehend this.

[@oj9886]

@@shou635 why are you getting hot and bothered

[@waynerussell6401]

Recurrent Auto has extensive test data on BEV range in the cold. At freezing they found that range reduction in popular EVs was minimal: iPace - 3% Etron -8% Model 3 -17% Models Y/X/S -15% Norwegian tests by Motor.No found Teslas at -15% the top runner. Having an efficient heat pump solution is key. All the top adopter countries of BEVs are cold climate.

[@nurbsenvi]

You just listed iPace at 3% and said -15% tesla is best?

[@MonsieurLabbe]

Thanks John, I live in Canada and have a 2019 M3. I usually lose around 40% in very cold winter. A nice day out I lose 25-30%

[@dagudoj]

I own a Model Y LFP, I make 100 km a day through highway in winter at 5º C or less, and never noticed a significative lose of autonomy. The key might be I charge at night before leaving home and always precondition the battery.

[@photographescommercial5053]

Thanks, living North of Montreal this is exactly right, going skiing every weekend never had a problem getting there, sometimes we have to push front wheels drive

[@toddr.lockwood843]

In any cold range test, it would good to know what the interior temperature was set to, and whether Range Mode was being used. Many owners keep the interior temperature at 72 or 74 degrees in the winter. I keep mine at 66 to 68, depending on whether the sun is out.

[@Cleanerwatt]

Great point!

[@jezza6575]

I keep mine similar to your preference as well but my daughters want their heated seats set to high🥴

[@toddr.lockwood843]

@@jezza6575 Heated seats are of less concern, as they consume a lot less energy than the cabin heater.

[@torocars9227]

To all buyers considering RWD car for snow usage. Just to point out the obvious. John didn’t test or experimented himself. Take his advice for what it’s worth . He’s not taking the risk of putting real money into a car it’s you! Do your own testing . Test drive it yourself or rent a rwd m3 at turo.

[@James-cq9dp]

i have a rwd 2023 model 3 in chicago and it was great over the winter.. i left the all season tires on bec im a cheap ass but i was driving through really thick snow and it was fine. the only problem was the ground clearance going in to my driveway. im lazy and didnt shovel and the snow plow made a massive mountain on the foot of my driveway so i would need to gain some speed to break through it lol

[@ChasL704]

It's about the same percentage my gasoline car gets when It gets bitterly cold outside.

[@Andersljungberg]

A man from Norway was impressed by the efficiency of the new rear-wheel drive version, however, he was not as pleased with the car stereo sound. He said that the car stereo sound even in the old long range was better

[@101rotarypower]

Are there any channels that focus heavily on cold weather EV performance? Would like to see different snow tire efficiency VS all weather, and different cold weather tests and scenarios to better understand the challenges VS warm/optimal EV conditions!

[@kevinplatt]

Thanks for sharing!

[@Walterp60]

Tezlab tracks efficiency on trips. My model 3p is often only 50% efficient in winter. Summer up to 80%. Mine is 2019 with resistive heater, not heat pump.

[@garyrooksby]

Great vid, John.

[@krause79]

This is why 4680 batteries will find it even harder to compete with 2.0 LFP batteries. CATL Shenxing batteries are way cheaper, durable, improved density and greatly improved performance on cold weather.

[@qkktech]

In winter conditions ICE range goes down so that 7l/100km to 11l/100km half of it are tires

[@vevenaneathna]

this is why PHEVs were so viable as a true 1 car solution. in my gen1 2013 volt, i regularly have had to travel 85 miles each way to my rural medschool rotation sites this winter. its been cold here, usually around 13-25 F (-6 C) when i leave in the early morning at like 4am. I precondition at home before leaving, and use the EV mode until I get to the highway on ramp, like 5 miles down the road, then turn on my generator for most of the highway driving. I switch back to EV mode on long downhill hwy sections, and am able to heat the cabin passively (fan only) with the generator by the time preconditioned cabin starts to cool off. Then I use up the remainder of the battery coming into town and driving to the hospital. the gen1 volt only lets you use 10.3kwh of the ~17kwh battery, but I still get 40+ miles of range in the dead of winter. End up using only 1.1 gallons to drive that 85 mile trip (~40mpg from generator alone, and ~77mpg counting the free EV charging at the hospital). I was surprised that I had zero measurable change in range during the coldest part of the year in my area, actually my mpg went up somehow, despite driving ~70mph in 15 below for 1.5-2hrs, basically the worst case scenario for an EV. If I had a tesla, it would really stress me out, not just from range anxiety and knowing I needed to plan my charging or else I wouldnt get there in time, but also from the fact that there would be no way to make the above journey without dipping into the damaging state of charge ranges or being unreasonably cold for 2+hours. for example if i wanted to always keep my EV between 90% and 30% state of charge, 60% usable battery X 160 mile range = 96 miles. If I got there and the chargers were occupied or vandalized or whatever, I would have to super charge and accelerate battery degradation. plus gas right now is half the price compared to DC fast charging... lol

[@pauld6967]

As an essentially 1-car household (it's complicated) I completely agree that PHEV is the way to go. EV for the around town errands that don't exceed 20 miles in total and gasoline for the 'home-office-home' commute & other long trips has been a perfect blended solution. Zero range anxiety, zero concern about the cold and significant saving in the family budget from the reduced number of visits to the gas station during the year.

[@vevenaneathna]

@@pauld6967 ya seems easier to bring back PHEVs than to try to fit a heat pump in an ev. even then, heat pumps dont do so well in the super cold times of year...

[@pauld6967]

@@vevenaneathna ....well, I guess that depends on how you are measuring things. I believe that it is objectively true, in serious Winter conditions, that it is better to have an EV car with a heat pump than an EV car that relies upon resistance heating.

[@replica1052]

as traffic is slower in winter you should not expect much range loss (precondition your car and pump up your tires )

[@BrianNedry]

Pumped up tires in snowy or wet condition is better for range but terrible for traction, especially if it's only Rwd. You get better traction with tire pressure slightly below the recommended 44 psi. I like setting them to 41-42 psi in snowy or wet conditions and pumping them up when it's dry outside. I'll take the range hit for better traction anyday.

[@replica1052]

@@BrianNedry (tires use air pressure to grip/translate the weight to grip )

[@logitech4873]

Traffic is the same speed in winter where I live (northern Norway)

[@replica1052]

@@logitech4873 (no slippery bridges in summer )

[@pagophilus]

The decreased range is not due to the effect of cold on range, but on the use of heating, both battery and carbon, on range. Ditto higher temperatures and cooling.

[@brianjohnson2650]

Well done!

[@kevroll99]

I drive a front-wheel drive Prius year-round in the snow. No problem. It's all about good tires.

[@ryan6391]

I heard on Electric Viking that Stalantis has a battery manufacturer that has an LFP that will have 20% increase in range and no cold loss. Do we know if Tesla is implementing the same tech that has helped this company? Has anyone heard about it?

[@psdaengr911]

The range vs temperature chart was missing average ICE efficiency. Without a basis of comparison, such charts lack context and lend themselves to misunderstanding and FUD.

[@hillbillytc5653]

We had to replace our model 3 Sr+ Battery after 55k. Living in Canada with colder weather LFP does not sound like a good idea. We already don't get any where near the est 350km we were promised. As well Tesla offered us 12k below market value to trade up to a new model 3. Take it ir leave it no negotiation at all. So much for it being an appreciating car as Elon said😮

[@kentprince4851]

The issue is not just driving in cold weather, the bigger issue is when the driver has to park on the street with no protection from the cold weather for long periods. This degrade the battery.

[@2kMario]

There is a rumors that Elon said that new Model Y LR will have a new bigger battery , what we can expect ? 82kWh netto ?

[@Andersljungberg]

However, there are certainly some people who would be bothered if the tires on the car spun every time the traffic light turned green

[@patrickfavier4310]

Driving in the cold is mostly due to additional air resistance, are fossil fuels also are subjected to this additional drag. A 25 degree temp drop has a 10% increase in air resistance. Short trips increase range loss fue to heating the cabin, then letting it cool again, but this is negligable on longer trips. The battery when cold cannot release all of its stored energy, but as soon as it heats up, this is also not an issue.

[@2TOKE69]

Tesla Björn 💪

[@qkktech]

In nordic countries there is joke about RWD BMWs and Mercedes wehicles in snow. Also the ill equiped automatic gearbox 4WDs are problem. 10 years agow there were a lot of accidents when car computer doesnt let you steer to your own lane when you hit snow in the middle of road you must turn more than it shuld be and when it goes back to normal then you are not able to compesate so quick. That is a real thing. Traction controll may fool you.

[@TrumanBurbankFE]

First, clean electricity is a myth in the US as most come from coal or gas plants. Cylindrical 2170 or 4680 NMCs are outdated already as they can't pack it efficiently like blade cells. CATL LFP are resistant to thermal runaway with punctures and can charge to 100% every time. The new 4C LFP can charge 4 times the size of the pack, that is the way forward for EVs.

[@MH-Tesla]

Your TESE graph does NOT match my 2023 Model 3 LFP real world results. I get the best range between 45f and 60f. More than the EPA. At 0 deg f. I'll lose about 18% of my summer average. But with snow on roads i have dropped as low as 38% loss at 0 deg. f. I've never had greater than 38% loss.

[@Cleanerwatt]

Awesome! This is great to hear.

[@STeroidsnicca]

@@Cleanerwatt So basically cool story bro lol

[@MH-Tesla]

​@@CleanerwattI didn't mention that I drive Uber so I'm driving 200-350 miles a day and have daily records of my actual efficiency for every day. Therefore my comment is based on hard data which I could share. From July 24, 2023-today. Michigan weather.

[@yeahbuddy92193911]

Can we stop saying "don't make a mistake" after every Tesla video, its getting annoying. Very click-baity and fear mongering. Could drive people away from buying a Tesla if all they see is don't make a mistake headlines.

[@AbrahamLeanin]

Yes please! Elon says he wants it to be the most fun thing to drive and to bring joy in something normally boring and mundane. Now it’s 15 percent this during this temperature , blah blah. Just get what you want and use it !

[@xlargetophat]

LFP? Lol .. nickel is king buddy. Talon Metals in Minnesota will be built. Range is king and Norway is successful. LFP is heavy.. it will never be king of the road. Semi needs nickel

[@Alberto-ql2bh]

You can do a thousand tests and two thousand videos to try to say that the SR is equal to or better with its lfp than an LR with ncm, but do you know what? At the end of the day with an LR you would have gone further... and do you know anything else? In 10-12 years, even if your LFP degrades less than the NCM, with the NCM you will continue to go further and get through your day to day better than with the LFP...and you can't change that with your videos. In degradation, it is not the same that 10% of a cup degrades than 10% of a jug...and that is what someone who buys an LR is looking for...oh and the total treatment in those climates. .which is not in the video...we will see how all those lfp superbatteries will be in 12 years...the ncm already know...

[@swhbpocl]

I drop this video because of Fahrenheit. USA, grow up!

[@ainschuntayleuhn1147]

Ban the use of Batteries that can Catch Fire 🔥 There are safer alternatives. It will also give the reluctant consumer a reason to consider an EV.

[@PJWey]

Ban the combustion fuels that combust too please… LFP thanks all good

[@jrwaters943]

ICE vehicle catch fire at a much higher rate than EVs. Also, LFP is among the safest types of batteries available as they are not prone to thermal runaway.

[@Cleanerwatt]

Exactly! LFP batteries especially have an extremely strong safety track record.

[@markeaton6734]

Any battery can catch fire. Lfp is less likely to catch fire but even NMC has a very low chance of catching fire.

[@PJWey]

@@markeaton6734 agreed, any energy storage can potentially release its energy in an uncontrolled way.