3 Guide Proven ELK RIFLE SETUPS - $1,500 to $10K+

[@ericinnis]

Thanks for being real about that expensive rifle. That's why we keep coming back!

[@IanMainBliss]

lol! Great to see you open up vs your older videos. Love the rants/jokes and casual conversation style! Very entertaining and informative! Best of both worlds :)

[@josephr2766]

While I may never hunt outside the Deep South pine and kudzu in a box stand I still enjoy these videos.

[@CliffGray]

awesome! thanks

[@owlwithahowl7798]

I loved when the first thing you said was most people don’t need a rifle that can shoot a bazillion miles. From personal experience in central/Western Europe were the ranges normally don’t go over 200m. I think knowing your limit is one of not the most important aspect of being a good hunter. I know that at the current time due to my limited time being able to get behind the rifle I wouldn’t exceed 150m at max. If I decide to harvest an animal the least I can do is to make it swift. A good friend of mine is a professional dog handler and a professional bloodhound handler(they are state certified and are allowed to cross hunting property lines) some stories he has told me are quite harrowing. Even at these comparatively small distances the times he has seen terrible shots where the hunter that had called him said „it was a perfect shot no idea why I couldn’t find the animal“ to then discovering that the animal had a gut shot is astounding. Or similarly terrible shots. The most important aspect in my opinion isn’t the rifle but the shooter behind it. Most modern rifles are at least adequate precision wise. And more often than not it is the shooter holding the rifle back.

[@buckconnolly1820]

Thank you for compiling this video, Cliff! I would like to chime in with my own experience, first off, most young people that are getting into this sport feel the need to buy all the latest and greatest long range custom rifles. and in turn spend a boat load of money instead of buying gas and tags and learning how to hunt in the first place, believe me I was that young guy that got way too caught up in having to have the best. A few years ago, I inherited a 73-year-old Winchester Pre 64 model 70 in 30-06, I decided to sell all my PRC's and buy a nice simple Zeiss V4 scope with no turrets or a fancy reticle. And have killed several elk and deer with this set up, because I have focused on learning how to hunt instead of trying to buy a kill.

[@CliffGray]

tons of truth here. appreciate the comment. thanks

[@nate18268]

Why did you sell your PRCs? Also did you spend a lot of time shooting them on BLM or service land at long ranges?

[@buckconnolly1820]

@@nate18268 yes I did. I spent a lot of money on ammo. And the 30-06 has never failed me. The area I hunt the furthest range is about 200 yards. Most my kills have been 100 yards or under. Money is better spent on time afield in my opinion. Don't get me wrong I love fancy rifle as much as anyone, but they are not a requirement.

[@gbaughman3348]

Nice! Keep it simple! I most use a FN Husqvarna in 30-06. I know my limits and have no problems.

[@wesleyturner1979]

@@nate18268 30-06 can do anything and it’s everywhere. If you have one gun for everything, don’t care to reload and want something simp and not going anywhere, the 30-06 is the clear winner. It’s not always the “best” choice but it’s NEVER a bad choice.

[@dennisdolfi]

Tikka announced at SHOT that all the T3X will come threaded! Drops cost quite a bit for that build.

[@CliffGray]

Good to know!

[@jamessammann9183]

ay

[@jamessammann9183]

​. Called bdc turrets

[@prez803]

You nailed all the important points. My first elk gun was the Ruger American Predator. Accuracy is phenomenal for the price. I upgraded the next year to the Tikka T3X Lite, and though it's clearly a sexier gun, you can imagine my disappointment when I found the accuracy to be identical to the Ruger---in fact, the Ruger is more accurate than both of my Christensen Arms rifles as well. One thing I might add regarding scopes. I have two of the Leupold VX3s, the same as yours, but one with and one without the parallax adjustment. I highly recommend that whatever scope someone wants, spend the extra $100 and get the parallax knob. It's a far more pleasant shooting experience. I'd love to see you do a video on barrel weights and types. Maybe I'm alone in this, but I'm over the pencil-thin barrels. When ammo is $2-5 a shot, I can safely say I've wasted hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars on bullets that were walking due to a hot barrel. Not to mention, it also takes me hours longer at the range because I have to let the barrel cool between strings. The end result is that I shoot less often because it's an expensive, time-consuming ordeal. If I could do it all over again, I would have gone with the Tikka CTR over the Lite and I will likely put the CTR barrel on my Tikka in the near future. I'd rather carry an extra pound up the mountain but have more quality time practicing with that rifle. Also, the POI shift from suppressor to no suppressor on my Tikka Lite is about 5" at 100 yards vs. about 2" on my carbon fiber Christensen barrels. I'm curious to hear your thoughts on all that.

[@CliffGray]

Tons of good stuff here. Appreciate the ideas for future topics also. I notice the same type of POI changes on the thinner barrels. thanks

[@Jesco2841]

Love that Cliff brings up the balance between horsepower vs shootability of the rifle. I have a 300WM in a Tikka that I have it setup to kick less than my tikka in 30-06 thanks to muzzle break and a bit heavier profile barrel. I'm 6'2 and 230 and handle more weight and recoil better than most. But if money wasn't a thing, I'd step down to that new 7 western cartridge. But for most guys, we're already invested in a caliber and rifle. Hard to justify a new rifle to get a little better ballistics and a little less recoil. At the end of the day, just get out and shoot more. Know your limits and know your gun/load

[@CliffGray]

great comment. thanks

[@LRRPFco52]

7mm Back Country in a 16" barrel cranking 170gr Terminal Ascent at 2920fps with a small TBAC can seems like a dream mountain gun.

[@chrisgunsandguitars1403]

Yup! Can never go wrong with good practice…….meaning not just shooting off a bench at your local range. People should practice off hand, prone, sitting with shooting sticks, etc. Scenarios you may have to use. However, it’s quite difficult to practice mtn incline shooting when you don’t live near mtns. It’s hard to practice shooting longer distances when your local range is limited to 200yds. Then many can’t really afford practice with, in many cases these days, $3 a trigger pull.

[@LRRPFco52]

@chrisgunsandguitars1403 One of the best things you can do is get a 6.5 Grendel training and deer/hog rifle and set it up as close to your Elk rifle as possible. Cost per round is very affordable and you can spend all day shooting it without fatigue.

[@wesleyturner1979]

They combined the 7mm backcountry and the 6.8 western? That was quick 🤣 7 western

[@Bert889]

Cliff, good video, very informative. I totally agree with your statement about gun weight vs recoil being significant. Last fall I shot a friend’s stock 6.5CM super lite. The only modification was a scope. I had my .300WM A-bolt, with muzzle brake, kick-eez recoil pad, scope and sling. I was not thinking about the 3 lb. weight difference between the two rifles. I expected the 6.5 to feel like a BB gun compared to the .300 WM. I was wrong. I was surprised that they felt almost the same. The 6.5 was less but a sharper kick. the gun is really lite and the stock recoil pad seemed pretty hard and without much compressibility compared to the kick-eez. I agree with a propensity to flinch with a .300WM. I know I fight flinch. If I set up a new gun, I think it would a 7mm-08 target weight of 9-10 lbs, and just pass on shots beyond the effective range of a .308 cartridge fitted with high bc 7mm bullet. think a well balanced short action would be more enjoyable to shoot. I would use the .300 for any dangerous game though. Happy hunting.

[@millerman9178]

About twenty minutes into this video (my first video I've watched from you btw), I instantly said to myself that you'd be a badass guy to chill with around a fire and just pick your brain. Tons of excellent knowledge explained just the way I like to hear it. Sub'd!

[@CliffGray]

well man, at some point if we end up around a campfire I hope i don't disappoint! thanks

[@konstantinparkhomenko]

He did an episode with Joe Rogan if you wanna listen to some good knowledge

[@HabeasJ]

I got lucky and found a beater Winchester 670 in 30-06 for $250. Glass, rings, and threaded the barrel for ~$350. Free floated the barrel myself. Worked up a 180 grain Partician load for it that groups (just barely) sub-MOA. I say all that to remind people that cheap guns can sometimes perform as good or better than more expensive ones. And if you already have a rifle you can shoot accurately you probably don't need to "upgrade"

[@michaelruiz2872]

Awesome real world content. With most things all the little details matter, and once again your experience and guidance saves me money and buyers remorse.... and hopefully successful future hunts. Thanks again for all your content.

[@CliffGray]

thanks! appreciate the support

[@Yetified_Mayhem]

And here I I thought I was a dork with my 308 compact for everything here in the steep Idaho mountains. My impression was everyone online is only shooting magnums and only out past 500yds:)

[@tonymorrison6875]

My Ruger .308 is 3 for 3 here in montana

[@CliffGray]

ha! secrets out

[@donbenson5292]

My 308 XPR shoots pretty dang good. Put a GCI brake on and weight balanced the stock. Shoots very nice. I reload my own and my own work and my friend has s nice lathe i use. 155gr amaxs shooting around 3/4 moa at 100 is not bad. Just my first loads at 2744 fps. I bought a 100 rounds of Norma 150s just to see. 200 fps less than advertised in my rifle. Another 308 Wby Vanguard wood sucker was a tack driver with 165gr btips packed full of H380.

[@joshkepp756]

Long barrel rifles suck in Idaho

[@Westerner_]

They figured it out almost 100 years ago. Moderate weighted rifle, capable of moderate distances, in a moderate recoiling cartridge… moderate moderate vanilla. Colonel Townsend Whelen and Jack O’Connor both talk about this in their books titled “The Hunting Rifle”

[@Luke-nv5fd]

Excellent, practical, spot on info! I'll second the Tikka barrel comments. I had the Tikka T3x stainless lite. Brought it in to get threaded and the smith said he needed to chop the barrel down to 16" or so to have enough wall thickness for a 5/8 thread. That was too much of a loss for a 7mm RM so I bought the Tikka veil wideland. Note that Tikka has said that the veil models are cerakote SS barrel and action. Very pleased with the t3x veil so far. Smooth, pretty, comfy, and typically get 5/8 to 3/4 moa.

[@CliffGray]

I need to checkout that model. looks cool

[@Luke-nv5fd]

@CliffGray make sure you check out Mountain Tactical's videos on their "Tikka PSA". Tikka has issues with the cerakote on the optic rail. Ideally, a guy should send the rifle in to a machine shop and have the cerakote on the top of the optic rail ground off so the rail is flat. I took a flat stone and cleaned off the cerakote while using a starrett flat edge and the back light method to check for flatness. Risky, but took my time and measured very meticulously.

[@yo2stix]

I have that caliber and model. You can use a different thread cut on the barrel by the way. I did.

[@waynetoneseekerandersen2213]

I loved the comment about factoring in gunsmith efficiency!!!! Have a great weekend Cliff!

[@CliffGray]

ha! you know it's true

[@ngallakp62]

Best recoil and flinch mitigation is a suppressor. 7mm08 is great for reasonable recoil/power

[@MichaelMiller-ww9iy]

Agree. I shoot 7mm-08 and so does my 12-year old son (got his first pronghorn this fall) and so does my 9-year old daughter (can't legally hunt until 12 yrs so she'll just keep shooting milk jugs for now).

[@ericjeske153]

First time watching your video. I love your info!!! Preaching this to my kids there whole time!!!!!

[@CliffGray]

👍 welcome to the channel

[@AttackorAdapt]

Your practical hunting accuracy vid covered things pretty good. LIttle Crow Gunworks has a 7mm series where they build and test 7mm caliber rifles, but video #3 covers technical stuff on accuracy in the mountains that goes a little bit more in depth and I found very informative, if any other watchers of this video wanna delve into it. Tim did a very good job on the series, and as a handloader myself, I found I learned quite a bit. He doesn't bullshit around, which I appreciated, much like yourself, Cliff. Hope people watch this whole video, and then check out his series if they don't want fluff.

[@CliffGray]

thanks man. appreciate the video suggestions. I will check them out

[@yungskullivan]

Every hunter needs to watch this! So much good information. I truly appreciate your practical, no BS approach. Do you need an expensive rifle to kill big name, no? Does everyone enjoy a good gear wank, unfortunately yes. I copied your ruger American build a while back. I’ve slowly been upgrading it, with a NightForce nx8 2.5-10, and a magpul stock, soon a suppressor. I can’t get myself to upgrade to a different action because it shoots so accurately! I’m a n00b shooter but can shoot a 1moa group at 400y

[@yungskullivan]

Also, someone on KZbin found a way to smooth out the ruger American actions. My friend with a tikka complimented me on the smoothness of my action kzbin.info/www/bejne/qGLbpKmbfbSBY6s

[@CliffGray]

@@yungskullivan I'll check it out! thanks

[@Lure-Benson]

NO BS you say ? At 65 years old and from childhood growing in a family of Northwest Oregon coastal Roosevelt Elk hunters what is said by this fool most of it someone would be a fool to Hunt the Oregon coastal Elk and even eastern Oregon massive canyons with deer guns. If some Green horn talks this ignorant fools' advice and try's to hunt Oregon's North coast or Eastern Oregon's massive canyons, they will face with passing up shots or wounding Elk and not finding the Elk

[@jfox71]

My super lightweight 308 is my go-to. It is suppressed and with the can it is 71/2 lbs. I know better than to try to shoot over 400yds but practice out to 500.

[@CliffGray]

good stuff

[@blackbeard0323]

Keep dropping them facts, buddy...

[@SFCascade]

I started hunting with a compound bow, and became a closd loop shooter with a bow using a hinge/button. When i started rifle hunting, my training and shot process transferred directly, and I became very proficient very fast with a rifle. So if someone wants to become a closed loop shooter, you can get a lot of mental fitness to become closed loop with a bow, a lot cheaper and easier than with a gun.

[@mmorris6341]

10:17 💯this right here. The best, most detailed explanation on the subject that I’ve come across. Thanks for the great content!

[@CliffGray]

thanks man!

[@IanMainBliss]

Ya no shit!! Brush and long things suck!

[@tonyrc49]

Appreciate the video. Great information! I have a 270 American. Mostly hunt whit tail and hogs in the southeast. But looking forward to one day going out west for an elk hunt.

[@RoxVrod]

I own a Bergara HMR in 300 PRC. The weight and brake makes it easy to shoot. (Rifle, scope, and ammo comes in about 11 lbs.) Also been hand loading ammo for it. My only modifications are I added a Nightforce Steel scope pic rail and Bergara bipod pic rail. I use the Hatch bipod you recommended. Using a Vortex 5x25x50 PST IIFFP scope w/ Vortex Rings and Level. I have about $2,200 invested. Your videos are so helpful. My gear and setup is influenced from your videos.

[@CliffGray]

sounds like a great setup. thanks for sharing.

[@wvpok]

lots of great info in this video! awesome stuff!

[@CliffGray]

thanks

[@coreytrick]

Love my Tikka setups, I'm a novice rifle shooter and expected the 300WM Superlite version to destroy me but with a can it was very manageable. I have since added a shortened 16" 308 Tikka and I love the form factor with a suppressor. I put both in carbon stocks and threaded 1/2x28 because of barrel profile. I won't buy a direct thread suppressor anymore that doesn't offer a universal hub. I don't like thread adaptors so having the hub eliminates that piece.

[@jstreetgiant1970]

I’m fucking dying over here. 😂 Thanks for keeping it real. This was my first time coming across your channel, but the moment you said people are full of shit for claiming their elk kills are outside of 150-400 yards, I stopped the video and subscribed 😂😂😂

[@CliffGray]

ha! glad to have ya

[@decoyn-7782]

I have the Sig Cross in 308 and it's a very nice gun. Taken many deer with it and it's easily one of my most accurate rifles in my safe. The 16" barrel hasn't been an issue at all, and even my wife shoots it out to 1/2 a mile all the time with my 165gr handloads.

[@aaronwilcox6417]

You really did a good job on this video hitting some high points and some truths between having a hobby rifle package or one thats ready to roll. One that really bothers me these days is the lack of skilled unsupported field shooting. Its preferrable to use an bipod or tripod and shooting sticks if possible but ive seen lots of video of people making poor shots or passing up easy shots because they're hunting and pecking for a place to put down the rifle and set up the bipod. We've really lost the skill of shooting and proper use of a sling.

[@CliffGray]

I'd actually like to get better at this myself. Great point

[@snoop2477]

So on point Cliff. You guys get ripped on suppressors in the States. In NZ these are commonly used and $400NZD ish. The 308 is a great suggestion for all the reasons you said. Great thoughts on the reality of most hunters not shooting long distance or not having enough time to practice at these distances. A check is how often have you seen animals at 500y+ you wanted to shoot in the last year/few years. Tikka is a great lightweight option. A little weight actually helps with recoil (and mitigating potential flinch) and hit on target. Having a super light rifle, recoil can be heavier (physics) so body position behind the rifle is so important. Keep up the spearfishing!!! Love it😊

[@CliffGray]

thanks man!

[@drevpet]

Cliff, great mods on the tikka ! I would like to mention one more I use on mine . Tikka’s rubber bolt knob that just slips onto the factory end. Cost like 9 CAD up here. It provides a large sticky secure grip for reloading. Thanks for the video!

[@jerehoff9092]

This is a fantastic overview and I appreciate the take on conveying understanding rather than just reciting knowledge. Cliff, you mentioned the length of the rifle being an issue several times. Is there a reason you haven’t incorporated a chassis with a folding stock like the HNT26, XLR Element, or even Sig Cross? I have a Bergara in an XLR chassis and while it does get cold and it’s not a pretty as a traditional stock, boy is it super convenient.

[@CliffGray]

thanks for the comment. I have a sig cross that I am testing right now. Great points. Really didn't get into it in this video because I have yet to use them much in the field. Your points are all very valid. thanks

[@phild9813]

I like a short rifle, and have been considering a folder, just haven’t found one I’m in love with yet. I require a locking bolt, so maybe Tikka will come out with a folder.

[@jerehoff9092]

@ The brand new Tikka Ace Game rifle looks like they could add a folding adapter to the stock in the future. That would be pretty sweet.

[@DirtFever]

Not sure what’s on the gunwerks for a recoil pad but if it doesn’t have a “Backstop Recoil Pad” from Backfire I highly recommend getting one and on every rifle for that matter! Midigates recoil very well also. I have on my fierce mountain reaper 7prc. It was 4-1/2 pounds out of the box and before I added the optic and bipod I shot it with factory recoil pad then put on the the backstop and it was night and day difference. 20” barrel and I can stay on target after trigger pull. Gun weighs 9lbs with everything on it now though.

[@dgambrel9241]

This is the best representation of rifle evolution over the last 15 years. In my opinion 400 yards the limit for most people. That’s also my limit now. I used to take much longer shots, but not anymore.

[@paullesho9294]

Nice video , i like all the tangents , thats exactly how my mind works also !

[@texpatriot8462]

I have a very lightweight 6.8W that kicked like a mule with the original lightweight scope and no brake (I was waiting for the correct adapter for my suppressor to arrive). I replaced the light scope with a heavier scope and the suppressor made a world of difference. Next up, a better recoil pad.

[@CliffGray]

Glad to hear you got that recoil situation sorted out! nice

[@danielhurst8863]

I've tapped targets at 800+ over and over. I've hit targets at 1,500. I'd never take a shot at an animal at 500+. Targets don't move in time of flight, and you can dial in the distance exactly, to the inch. I don't care how good your range finder is, it is never going to be as accurate against something that moves. There are hunters that can ethically take hunting shots way beyond my capability, but they practice. They know how the animal moves and they can anticipate even small movements. Range accuracy and hunting accuracy and simply not the same thing.

[@CliffGray]

I agree

[@semajniffirg230]

In my mind the only person that should be shooting at a living thing at 500yds or more is a trained sniper. Gritty/Brian Call has a mule deer hunt video where one of their hunting partners is a former sniper and he punches a big mule deer at over 580 yards in windy conditions without batting an eye, hits it twice at that distance too and both shots were vital zone hits.

[@jayperreira2778]

I put my 7mag Tikka in a MDT chassis and it was brutal. Shot 1/2”, three shot groups with factory ammo. For hunting, for me, I could use it but shooting for zero and groups was ridiculous. Chassis looked cool as heck but it definitely was a shoulder bruiser. I put it in a B&C stock and it made a world of difference. The factory stock was better than the chassis but was still pretty stout.

[@CliffGray]

yeah they can put out some recoil man

[@metrobadger]

Area 419 has the hellfire system which enables you to use a 5/8 x 24 suppressor on a 1/2 x 28 threaded barrel.

[@THUF007]

Been using that system for a few years now on several suppressors & rifles. I can highly recommend it!

[@austinwebbcreative]

I have this on my tikka setup 👍

[@odomwu]

Great video, Cliff! It's not always the arrows. It's the Indian!

[@CliffGray]

true! ha

[@MikeJones-vb1me]

I’ve been coveting the new gen 2 xbolt from browning. Fully adjustable stock, threaded and fluted barrel, looks like it’s been testing very reliable and accurate. I figure a 270 will kill whatever I’ll be hunting here in BC, plus my wife can handle it too. Happy for feedback on why I’m wrong!

[@CliffGray]

sounds like solid logic to me

[@Yetified_Mayhem]

Sounds perfect. Love my old faithful 270

[@Outlander18]

On a weatherby Mark V in 300 win mag with the montecarlo stock and a Leupold VX5 HD 3x15x44. How would you mount the scope to the rifle? For example, direct to the receiver & what rings etc do you suggest or add a pic rail & what rings? Cleary this is a hunting rifle. I guess the question is mount to a rail or direct to the receiver..?

[@joncook6331]

Great video. Currently setting up my first western hunt for 2025. I have a Ruger 6.5CM and Mossberg 300WM. As much as I would love to get a nicer rifle, I know the experience will be more important than having a fancy rifle.

[@CliffGray]

I'm sure both those rifles will be just fine!

[@Freestylematt139]

Top 3 scope recommendations - mils or moa, ffp or sfp, and what range of zoom for elk?

[@DontHateItsBased]

Suppressors are easy to get right now. Rugged makes great suppressors. Light weight, plus they have discounts based on how many you own. Pretty legit company.

[@CliffGray]

for sure. I probably wasn't clear.... as you say, process is quick and streamlined right now, still the $200 stamp issue with the dumb regs

[@DontHateItsBased]

@ absolutely 👍 if you haven’t tried Rugged I highly recommend.

[@dustinsmith4068]

Our definitions of easy are different.

[@DontHateItsBased]

@@dustinsmith4068 wait times are drastically reduced now. Paperwork is streamlined. Just make sure your paperwork is correct the first time. But I’m also in a state that doesn’t rock the boat either.

[@Johnny-y7j]

The good old 30-06 Remington 700 ADL is my rifle and I have $550 in the hole rifle! And the 30-06 has taken the most elk out there!!

[@J_D_Rambro]

What percentages of your hunts are suppressed? Thanks for what you do, the content is always a positive learning experience. I'll never hunt past 350yds....now steel targets have no limits!

[@CliffGray]

50/50. I have been doing more and more setups that way. All my loaner guns will be suppressed in 2025 when/where legal. The muzzle brakes are just too loud for guides. If you forget ear plugs just one time...

[@LRRPFco52]

​@@CliffGray I see a 16" 7mm Back Country with a suppressor in your future. The muzzle velocities are like a 280AI +P++, .473" case head. Would be sick with a Magnus on it.

[@MiddleOutdoorsman]

I love my Tika T3X superlight chambered in 308. Got it for Christmas in 21. In 22 I took a late season cow at 465 yards, in 24 I took a spike bull on the run at approximately 130 yards. Bolt is smooth as glass, weights 7.9 pounds on my hanging scale, and it isn't too long. Fit's in my pack scabbard nicely. My tinnitus doesn't care about the lack of a can on the end of it. I'm so ampt, I hardly hear the rifle anyway. It's a sharp, yet dull, crack. Very distinctive report, it's actually not that bad, youd think it would be more obnoxious. First thing I did to it, was put a limbsaver recoil pad on it. The factory pad is kinda garbage.

[@CliffGray]

that sounds like a great setup

[@Mountainghost72]

Really enjoy your videos Cliff, when I used to guide, I always noticed most hunter's with 300 win mags were the worst shots, that recoil is no joke, can equal wounded animals, keep up the great vids 👍🏾 ps is that Leupold in that Ruger a fire dot & if so how do you like it

[@dustincaso6781]

Ive hunted elk in PA. Your $350 mossberg .308 and a $250 vortex 1-6 x 24 red dot works just fine.

[@BobSmith-k9z]

Elk in Pennsylvania? That open hunt to out state residents?

[@dustincaso6781]

@ lottery system just like every where else you can hunt elk besides Montana and Wyoming. You can get out of state tags for here

[@mictrey2267]

waiting on my fierce carbon rogue 300 prc. Should be here monday. Cant wait.

[@CliffGray]

sounds fun!

[@chrisgunsandguitars1403]

Everything you said about the Gunwerks system is true. Yes. It’s expensive, and no you can’t build a rifle just as good for WAY less. (Because somebody is going to say they can) Gunwerks has covered that exact topic, and broke it down. Tikka is a great company, but Gunwerks is an American company and their rifles don’t leave the factory unless they shoot 1 MOA at distance. They even make their own barrels now. Now I own a Gunwerks Magnus from 2015 (previous version than the video) in 6.5-284. The first animal I killed with it was a whitetail at 198yds with a head shot. The deer was standing on the other side of a deadfall with 10 mins of shooting light left. Now I don’t own any Tikka rifles, but I own 2 Sako’s. I own a 1st Gen Ruger American in .243 which is a decent rifle. The biggest issue with those 1st Gen rifles was the excessive flexibility in the forend, plastic bolt shroud, and a gritty feel to the bolt. All things that can be corrected. As Cliff says, if you don’t want to dick around with fixing a cheaper gun, working up the ballistics, etc, buy a Gunwerks system. Then practice! Time is the only thing you can’t buy. Have fun, hopefully success, and good shooting.

[@CliffGray]

Well said 👍

[@davecollins6113]

Been using a Win 1885 in 300H&H, Zeiss 4.5-14x 44 Conquest Z800. In Cda, no suppressors allowed, I hate muzzle brakes. Gun is 10lbs 2oz, and a sweety to shoot. Used a Rem 700 in 7-08 for near 40 yrs now, 2-7x33 Leupold, old Fribregrain McMillan stock, Triggertech added 3 yrs ago, this gun is the go-to without question for spot and stalk and the mountains, and it has proved itself many times over from moose to yotes. For bush hunting, I have a Krieghoff SXS, custom spec's, 30R Blaser,, 90% of my kills over 50 yrs, have been @ 250 yds or less, that is why I have this gun, it wears a holographic red dot sight. THe 1885 only goes when truck hnting or to a known sit spot, but also swings offhand better than the SXS.

[@CliffGray]

sound like awesome setups. thanks for sharing

[@dhexcavating1558]

The short barrel 308 Ruger with 3x9 vx scope is light and tight for rolling through the bush

[@phild9813]

I like the Ruger American ok, but the lack of bolt lock on the gen 1 is nearly unacceptable. It was great to see them address that in the gen 2. I regularly hunt primarily with a full length Tikka 270wsm, but when I’m hunting the thicker country, I grab my compact stock, 20” barrel tikka in 308. Or when I get tired of lugging around the long rifle lol

[@CliffGray]

I hear ya. I like the tikka in a 308 shorter barrel also. great setup

[@thetechfella1]

You can get an adapter nut to bring the 1/2-28 to 5/8-24. To be fair, that's another thing that can go wrong, be timed different &c, but the option is there and cheap (little as $5).

[@CliffGray]

I hear ya. Stacking tolerances, weakness at the connection, etc... all issues with an adapter. but for sure an option

[@BailyBarrows]

Where is the video of up assembling the rifle with the tutorial on mounting a scope? You referenced the video in this video. But I can’t find it

[@lyndeen]

Enjoyed the video.

[@DK-wd8ju]

I know this isn’t a caliber video but what’s your opinion on 7mm-08? I’m new and hunting in Utah, built a 7mm-08 tikka for muley and elk.

[@MO-vr1jg]

Well done, great information. Other than the obvious of not having high tech components like synthetic stocks , suppressors ect …are clients that handicapped who just want to shoot their older rifles like Model 70’s or Sako’s in mountain west applications?

[@CliffGray]

Not at all. Comfort level with a specific rifle tends to overcome all the marginal tech improvements. I don’t get into it in this video much but simplicity/familiarity has tremendous value in the mountains. Even simple things like adjustable turrets are debatable net improvements amongst the average hunter. They have helped kill a lot of game but they have also saved a bunch, just because they are one additional layer of complexity

[@JuanOwings]

Hey cliff do you have a video talking about first focal plane vs second focal plane scopes for hunting? Im curious which one i should get. Thanks.

[@CliffGray]

Second focal plane is great for most all hunting applications, typically cheaper also

[@JuanOwings]

@ Thanks! Is there a reason you don’t prefer first focal plane?

[@serosedserio6531]

Have you ever specifically seen a cheep vortex scope fail? Crossfire, or even Iron peak or Sonora (vortex cheaper scope models)? I never have, but I maybe don’t have as much experience as some of you I have only been there for a little over 100 big game kills. I have used the Remington 783, the CZ 557, Howa 1500, and a couple of different AR-10 to take animals. I would probably never go less than 100 dollars on a scope but I have never spent more than 250 on a scope, I have never spent more than 80 on scope rings. I have never missed a shot because my equipment failed. Only due to my lack of practice with that gun. I am worried that even your “cheap” set up may discourage some people, I think a reliable set up can be had conservatively for less than 800 including the optic, and if one shops around for considerably less. I agree with you on the 308, good cheap round that is plentiful. I am surprised you did not mention the boring old 30-06 in my opinion much better at dropping animals than 308 and still very affordable and plentiful. Anyway, I do appreciate your insight. Thanks for making your videos.

[@jeremymynear663]

Do you think the Leupold CDS system is at all.worth using out to maybe 4-500 max? If you are inputting the precise input into the calibrations? I always wondered if that system is ethical in terms of hunting. Of course you would want to verify in the field first.

[@Devante-x5b]

The major problem is a lot of rifle hunters show up to the gun range 1 week before hunting season. And Shoot a few rounds and leave. I use 300 win mags with and without muzzle brakes and I don’t flinch. It all comes down to practice but I shoot a lot though.

[@mc-nm6ml]

How are you liking those gunwerks bipods? I’ve been thinking about getting one.

[@CliffGray]

I have a video coming out where I discuss them. For certain body types they are great, but they are just slightly too short for me to shoot from a seated position. Phenomenal construction, quick release mechanism, etc...

[@mc-nm6ml]

@ they need to come out with a longer version, id trade a few oz more for the additional length.

[@jayfxdx]

Im shooting a browning a-bolt stainless stalker in 7mm rem mag with the Boss break. It’s on the heavy side and the recoil is very manageable but damn is it loud. I don’t think I’d shoot a magnum without a break, thinking my first lightweight rifle will be in 270.

[@CliffGray]

might have to go down the suppressor rabbit hole! nothing wrong with a .270

[@jayfxdx]

@ I’m up in Canada so a suppressor is a no go.

[@adventureswithcorona]

i have a weatherby vanguard outfitter in 30-06 with a 24 inch barrell. i have a vortex viper 3-15x44 with talley rings. i really dont want to buy another rifle. should i be fine to hunt anything from pigs to moose??? i hit 3 inch groups consistently at 400 yards with barnes lrx 175s

[@CliffGray]

should work fine

[@semajniffirg230]

30-06 is fine for anything in North America. For any truly large game like moose I like a 200gr Nosler Partition. For bear or wild boar in thicker country I'd run the 220gr Nosler Partition with a much lower power scope like a 2-7x or a 1-6x LPVO or Iron Sights. Most hunting is done at under 400 yards. Setting a hunting rifle up to mostly shoot beyond 300yards makes no sense.

[@RSdd11]

People fail to realize that, while its all fine and dandy that you can vertically adjust at 500+ yards, even a 10-mph cross wind at 300 yards, is pushing you left or right by half to three quarters of a foot. At 500 you are missing wide by 2 entire feet. My personal limitation is trying to get within 250 yards.

[@CliffGray]

yes, vast majority of people underestimate the value of the wind calling component at much distance in the mountain. they also way overestimate their ability on that front.

[@LRRPFco52]

I agree with your overall messaging, but wind drift between lower end BC hunting bullets vs higher BC ranges from 14-9" at 500yds with a 10mph full value wind "down" at 6300ft elevation. Definitely not 2 feet of drift. Enough to miss POA entirely for sure. Without a registered shot, you might not have a good idea of what the wind is doing either. I say that having been reading wind as part of my jobs or hobbies in aviation and long-range shooting for the past 5 decades. Same conclusion: Keep the shot close by stalking into position where wind will not deflect you out of your cone of error within the vital zone. For the vast majority of shooters, that's 250-300yds.

[@RSdd11]

@ Good points. I based my calcs off factory .308 180 gr partitions. The slower .308 is about 8” at 300 with 10 mph and 22” at 500. I was assuming “mountain gun” rounds like 7mm-08, 308 etc.

[@moa.333]

Lesson learned...never pee or shoot into the wind 😅

[@LRRPFco52]

​@@RSdd11 Yup. I looked at my program for 139gr GMX 7mm-08 vs 7 SAUM w/195gr Berger at 6300ft elevation. Best thing for people to do is do a little 1 or 2-day LR course with a properly set-up rifle/scope/mount/cartridge combo, with bipod and tripod. Find out what distance you can actually 100% connect with a 12" steel plate from field positions.

[@bobketterer9119]

I know you’re not talking calibers, but have you heard anything about Federal’s 7mm backcountry?

[@williamfeldner9356]

Cliff Cliff Cliff you know most of your hunters are not capable of shooting into 8 inches at 500 yards in mountain hunting conditions. I suggest you set up a competition, in the mountains,under some physical exertion,under a 3 minute setup time limit . Make a great video to watch. People simply do not realize how variable the winds are in the mountains. Taking a reading from where you are shooting is simply not what is happening in the shooting lane at long distance. Many good articles on mountain winds on the web, or better yet ask a mountain certified general aviation pilots.

[@CliffGray]

man, that would be a fun video! added to my list

[@Keggertotap]

There’s another guy On u tube gets bench guys cold first shots at 500 Very few practical hunting rigs very few 5” circle at 500 yards I built a 6.5x06 .270 base case just for this reason 30 years ago those antelope and couse deer were just outside 350 yards ruger mk2 77 stainless houge stock. Light target 24” w break broughton barrel bilux trigger I dropped that rifle more than I can count. Rough stuff 140 Berger’s 56 gr rl26 @3 k ish -3” groups at 500 were pretty common calm mornings no wind perfect conditions Not a bad yote rifle 90 gr Hornady v max 3350 Never found 100 gr ballistic tip s for it 120 s 139 shoots well for deer 2 elk w 156 oryx great bullet a couple of black bears same cow elk w 140 Berger’s loud but shoots like a .243

[@cl3826]

What's the minimum barrel length for a 308? I like the idea. I just feel like I'm going to have to stalk the elk to closely. I'd rather have a 6.8Western, get a little more distance and recoil, but not have to get as close to the elk and still have a short barrel

[@CliffGray]

16-18" is probably as short as you want to go. pull up a ballistics calculator and play around with some common rounds. Look at where that velocity drops below the required impact velocity for proper bullet function

[@wrigh442]

Right around the 33min mark, you talk about not being able to run the 5/8 on the Tikka due to 1/2 thread. Why not just run the thread adapter? I shoot 5/8 suppressors on all my 1/2 Tikka’s. Zero issues

[@CliffGray]

I’ve talked to suppressor builders on this several times. Their answer is that they don’t make larger caliber suppressors in 1/2 threading for a reason. It’s too weak of a structure and there isn’t enough material to ensure consistency. Adapters don’t solve this and they also introduce tolerance stacking. This is particularly the case if you are using $10 adapters. Reality is a guy can probably get away with it most of the time. Rifle takes a header, slams suppressor against a rock… you probably have something to worry about.

[@wapitiRack13]

Tried to buy your sharpening rod several Times. Your link errors out and says 404 error. Don’t know what’s up with that.

[@CliffGray]

Hey, thanks for letting me know. Where specifically are you clicking the link? Right off of KZbin below the video? I can't seem to replicate the issue on my end to get it fixed. Appreciate any additional info. thanks, Cliff

[@christopherdavis2439]

I have a stock tikka in 270 wsm that i got as a light weight hunting rifle that has all the power and reach I could want that still doesnt beat me up. But it still doesn't give me the confidence of my heavy barrel tikka 300 win mag at 10.5 pounds with scope and all that i have shot to 1,300 yards. Depends how far we gotta go i suppose

[@Meadowzcj]

thanks Cliff! Where could I purchase that muzzle break? It’s seems that every website I look on is sketchy and illegal lmao!

[@CliffGray]

midway usa

[@Meadowzcj]

@ your the best brother, got my first DIY elk from your info this year! 🥩⛰️🫎

[@albertjabberin739]

A suppressor and a good stock and recoil pad designs are game changers. My mark v wby hunter 30-06 recoils less than a normal 308. The Ruger is a good gun but I’ve had trouble with the magazines. Seems like you have to do too much to those Tikkas when there’s a bunch of Weatherbys that are ready out of the box, and word is even their light backcountry guns suppressed aren’t too bad in the recoil department, so I disagree a rifle in a hard hitting cartridge has to weigh 9-10+ lbs if it’s designed right.

[@The_Cowboy_Hunter_Podcast]

Where the heck are you getting smmo? Because factory offerings I see for 7PRC are all in the 2-2.75 per round range and reloading should come in a smidge below that depending on your components.

[@chadgavason1362]

Cliff what is the green hoodie you have on at the beginning ?

[@CliffGray]

duckworth powder hoodie

[@NAubc]

Cliff can you make a long version of this video?

[@CliffGray]

Yeah I’ll work on it. Freaking great suggestion

[@ryansmith3369]

how about a Weatherby alpine as a substitute for gunworks? i know Gunworks is giving away or at least heavily discounting their rifles to hunting outfitters/guides... asking that they use them as loaners and post pictures of the rifle with the hunters. I'm thinking the Weatherby Alpine might be a close alternative for 1/10 the cost, and then put a Swarovski Z5+ 3.5-18x50 on it.

[@rickyflare9551]

What is your opinion of the new 7BC?

[@CliffGray]

Have not used it or looked at it much yet

[@andyc.947]

you can get an adapter for the 'larger' threading options on suppressors. $20 ish. just FYI.

[@CliffGray]

I hear ya. The issue I have with these is that you are stacking tolerances and there are reasons for the limitation in the first place - Why does a company like Thunderbeast not thread 30 cals to 1/2? If I take an adapter and go from 1/2 to 5/8 I am working around their engineering choice to not make 30 cals with that threading. The tolerance issue is that you are taking very expensive, spec devices and then putting them on an adapter that is probably manufactured with wide tolerances and variability. Even if it isn't, it is still going to introduce tolerance variability.

[@SA-hh9mv]

ebay they are cheap.

[@IanMainBliss]

Yes, it's awesome shit Cliff! lol. So I was looking at elk rifles.. was going to get a tikka t3x in 7mm rem mag with a light optic. Too much kick? Also you are totally right about length. This is why I have a short ATA bow..

[@CliffGray]

With a muzzle break or suppressor you should be ok

[@yowser8780]

Some states are now requiring Copper-based (non-lead) bullets for hunting. So far one of the big 'success' things now is the bullet velocity at contact with the game (expansion). Unfortunately, that makes the .308 (and similar cartridges) too slow for long distances. Worried about stuff on flinching ? When the game is in the scope... all that vanishes. Gun just 'goes off'.

[@eddyj7557]

Need to correct you on the tikkas having not having stainless threaded options , that’s not true , all the superlite versions these days come threaded. Great video mate enjoyed the honesty

[@CliffGray]

👍 I was referring to the stainless versions. I don’t believe any of them come threaded. Regardless, good info 👍

[@clintmontana7942]

Even if you mitigate felt recoil, you can’t always overcome recoil velocity. High Recoil velocity on lightweight magnums causes the gun to move before the bullet leaves the barrel. This means your point of impact can move drastically if the gun isn’t secured exactly the same each shot. This is impossible to do from different shooting positions. A 300 win mag in a 14lb rifle is probably the maximum recoil velocity one can manage without learning different sight zeroes from each shooting position (standing, prone, etc.). If you want a lighter rifle, you need a lighter cartridge to manage recoil velocity or your gun won’t be accurate from random shooting positions. My 10lb .338RUM is braked to shoot comfortably, but depending on how solid the butt is secured - POI can change by 16” at 200yds. I can zero on bipods and dope my scope for that, but if I have to shoot off-hand or off a branch, or off sticks, that shot is going to go high. My 6.5 creed at 12lbs holds the same zero if my 11yr old daughter shoots it, that bullet is gone before the muzzle rises.

[@CliffGray]

Great points. Thanks for sharing Clint

[@SA-hh9mv]

7 PRC, 300 PRC or the good old 300 WM for Elk? If you could only have one? Shots from under 500 yards.

[@CliffGray]

7 PRC

[@SA-hh9mv]

@@CliffGray Thanks for the confirmation. Was thinking the same!!!

[@ez7977]

Great content Cliff! I got a tikka too, and I see the issues with the barrel heating up. But a 1 foot 'flinger' !! wow! I see a inch or so!! I do see way more finicky issue with ammo in my Tikka too. I handload and I still have issues depending on the bullet I use

[@CliffGray]

I hear ya. Foot flinger might have been an exaggeration, my bad, but I have for sure seen 5-6"

[@davisstellman]

I'm a die hard traditional archer but limited time is making me want to swing to the darkside of rifle hunting. Not enough time to be able to scout and get that close to an animal :/. Considering a .300 prc or .308 or .300winmag mountain setup. I think a caliber choice should also be affordable enough for the shooter to be proficient with the setup.

[@jD-kk7gs]

Limited vacation is what deters me from archery despite having some nice things and being a decent shot with mine. It seems like a really cool and rewarding way of taking game but I wouldn't turn your nose up to rifle as there's plenty of romance and room to become exceptional in rifle marksmanship. Adjusting your demands way up for the rifle keeps it fun. Practicing further and further like freehanding 200 yards or field shooting 600 yard first round impacts from a bipod.

[@jD-kk7gs]

Also, I've watched a number of Cliffs videos and the guy gives a lot of great/realistic advice to my experience. He has more experience hunting than me and is pretty good on his gun advice. The gun part has been more my hobby and interest. His spill about the guy with a light Tikka in a magnum caliber who ends up being a shit shot is a true stereotype. Most, including myself, need a muzzle brake and a rifle with some heft to shoot those big chamberings accurately. Unsolicited advice but I'd push someone toward a good enough gun to eventually be a backup rifle to a future custom. 6.5 prc is roughly = 270 in power/recoil but is able to shoot higher BC bullets in a short action. With what's on the market right now (whole lot more accurate longer range oriented factory guns) I'd suggest 6.5 prc in a havok ph2, sako s20, weatherby 307, or some of the bergaras out right now. I wouldn't suggest over-spending on a gun that's difficult to accurize hard to source parts for, or is punishing to shoot. Personally, my preference is toward handloading (big time investment) for braked long action magnum 7mms and 30cals but with heavier guns than many would prefer. I'm not sure how familiar with rifle builds but it might help when shopping to think of power as it relates to action size. Short action std bolt: 308, 6.5cm, 7-08 Long action std bolt: 30-06, 270 Short action mag bolt: 300wsm, 6.5 prc Long action mag bolt: 300wm, 7rm, 7prc 300prc With custom actions and now some factory options these actions can take prefit barrels you can strap on at home and swap out on your nice rifle once the barrel burns out

[@davisstellman]

@jD-kk7gs at the end of the day we all just want to harvest meat as ethically as possible. Whether by bow or rifle I think both must be incredibly rewarding. I think truly until I am a far better hunter I will be taking your advice and setting up a PH2 or PH3 and learning the trade for big game while I track small game/hogs with my bow. One day maybe it'll come together with the stickbow, but that's a long ways out. Thanks for the advice man, I'll be looking into options!

[@Dark-7070]

Elk is a short bus any budget rifle handles it optics is the main investment!

[@mxracer317]

I have the Gunwerks Magnus in 300 win mag. I got an industry deal on it. It is high quality -BUT, even at the deal price that I paid, it’s still TOO much money. If i had to buy one off the shelf, I’d buy a Tikka and throw on a great scope and suppressor and call it a day. The Gunwerks bipods are amazing tho. They are worth it to me.

[@williamfeldner9356]

Just get a Weatherby Custom Shop Accumark, pay 300 to get them to Range Certified it and get a rifle guaranteed to shoot submoa with Weatherby Factory Ammunition. It is going to cost 2600 for the custom shop to build the rifle and test fire for accuracy. You can pick your stock and barrel color. Add a nice Nightforce or Leupold scope and you are under 4500. About 5500 less than the over priced Gunworks rifle……

[@CliffGray]

haven't dealt with Weatherby but seems like a reasonable plan

[@pops77s]

What cover/case is that in the intro?

[@CliffGray]

I put a link in the description of that video. It is a cheap one off amazon.. but that particular one in the video has been used and abused a lot for years. works fine

[@gbaughman3348]

Lots of great comments on this video. However do you ever think what our fathers and grandfathers hunted with? Personally I just think they had better shooting/hunting skills than what is being used today.

[@CliffGray]

I think about it a lot. To be honest, I think game was easier to kill but I also think our ancestors also had the advantage of being at peace in the wilderness. They didn’t have the constant internal battle of “real life” vs going hunting that most of us deal with today

[@gbaughman3348]

​@@CliffGrayyeah, I think about that to about how fast life has become. With the risk of sounding too philosophical maybe we need to slow down on things.

[@leonfarineau1320]

The zippy bolt Gen2 is better but wish it would have the claw feed like old m77 Hawkeye/mausers. And all that I’ve seen are flutted and stainless

[@BBTiller]

What’s the deal with the tripods? Are those better than shooting off your pack in your opinion? I find they catch on my back and pack and annoy the shit out of me.

[@CliffGray]

matters some on terrain and vegetation. I get into this in some of my other videos and have a tripod specific video coming out soon. The short of it is if your circumstances let you get prone a lot, I prefer shooting over a pack. If you are shooting prone and shooting sitting (indian style type deal) a lot, I prefer an extendable bipod. I personally do not find much value (over a pack) in short bipods.

[@johnwesely]

@@CliffGray I think for me its that my bipod is the same every day, all year round, and the size and shape of my pack varies based of that days hunt and the weather. The consistency builds confidence. If I was more skilled, I probably wouldn't care as much.

[@mjones9708]

Silencer central have a threading service tell you how to ship the whole thing

[@CliffGray]

good to know!

[@messyfisherman4140]

Im a bigger guy i shoot a 300 win mag and i shoot it really well but it is a heavy recoil gun and for most people its going to take far more prctice to be accurate with it vs some thing like a 308 or 6.5