CLOSE AIR SUPPORT | F-16C Viper Better Air To Ground Platform Vs A-10 Warthog ? | DCS |

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On this channel we like to do a lot of dogfighting most videos are some sort of dogfight between 2 different aircraft as we explore their different capabilities. From time to time I like to dabble in Virtual Reality, I think VR is a great new technology and I love to show that stuff off for the channel from time to time.
If you enjoy war thunder or Microsoft flight simulator 2020 or even dogfighting in Battlefield 2042, consider getting yourself into Digital Combat Simulator by Eagle Dynamics, the Combat side of Aviation with the BVR and Dogfights really provides a different and interesting perspective on aviation. You can fly all kinds of combat aircraft including the F-16, F-15, F-14, JF-17, Su-27, Mig-29, Mirage and the F-18 Hornet along with many other aircraft and helicopters like the Ka-50 and Mi-8.

[@GrowlingSidewinder]

Check out the Merch Store: growling-sidewinder.creator-spring.com/ DCS F-16 Viper: www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/shop/modules/viper/?

[@hkguitar1984]

IMO, in this kind of capacity the F-16 is like the M4 Carbine, whereas the A-10 would be more like the Browning BAR, both have their specialties. Great content GS, thank you.

[@Shadow-itsumi]

@GrowlingSidewinder so buddy one 1v1 I would really love to see is the su57 felon vs the su47 berkut or su47 vs f22 or f35 please

[@numberyellow]

NGAD vs F-15 ACTIVE, dogfight, guns and missles plzkthx SU-57 vs F-15 ACTIVE, dogfight, guns only plzkthx

[@tsvetansimeonov7936]

Why SU-25 not shooting?

[@sheila9358]

Scud hunting at night in syria.. f16 targets in a box but unknow where.. enemy a/a threats etc..

[@jdkroh]

Thanks for bringing back the drop tank. The American tax payer thanks you.

[@dmitrynova]

i was so hoping he'd drop it on the mi-24 as the last-ditch effort ))

[@truthseeker9454]

@@dmitrynova I would have loved to see that! 😆

[@johnandrewmunroe]

@@dmitrynova I wonder if an enemy casualty has ever been recorded from a drop tank!

[@Belford_4642]

Glad someone else noticed it too🤣

[@dsdy1205]

​@@johnandrewmunroe sadly no, the closest I've heard was that f15e that killed a heli with a laser guided bomb

[@the_algo_rhythm]

That buzz by the downed pilot was absolutely savage.

[@LeeValentine001]

No eyebrows left on that poor bloke.

[@grumpy2.0]

Lucky he didn't take a pop with his side arm.

[@the_algo_rhythm]

Eardrums - annihilated.

[@nerdysoldier]

That frogfoot pilot did not want the smoke lol

[@TymaDem]

16:53 looks like someone is getting an unpleasant talk with the chief mechanic

[@adamtheninjasmith2985]

All I have to say is don't piss off your mechanics. Especially on convoy. I'm not military but my best friend is. He was a mechanic in the army and drove a hemt on convoy in Iraq. one day his alternator or something gave up and he limped it to the next checkpoint or fob and told the convoy leader hey we can't go anywhere I'm gonna break down, I need to radio back and get this part. Convoy leader said nope you're fine we're moving out. Needless to say the wrecker that's basically the heart and lifeline of the convoy breaks down. Shit hits the fan, they get shot at and when they got back to base that convoy leader got his ass handed to him and from there on out he was under very strict orders to move or not move basically under motor pools discretion regardless of rank.

[@happyhaunter_5546]

Pilotm especially times two, when you budget in their schooling/training, are more valuable than a single aircraft. That was not cowardice, but the wise move.USA.

[@SovereignVis]

Yeah, this is why you need both. Got to use the best tool for the job. Send in the F-16 first to take out all the air threats, then after the skies are clear, have the A-10 do all the heavy CAS work.

[@FlexibleToast]

Nah, you don't need the A10 in the world of UAVs.

[@SovereignVis]

@@FlexibleToast Do they have UAVs with GAU-8s? 🤔

[@FlexibleToast]

@@SovereignVis do they need GAU-8s? A10s getting gun kills is actually rare in the real world despite it being romanticized.

[@Noisy_Cricket]

​@@SovereignVisthey can easily make that if needed. With those fancy laser guided bullets that DARPA is working on too.

[@traviswalker8933]

​@@SovereignVis UAVs don't need that, they can provide CAS without those armaments and without the risk of loss of pilot life.

[@theDgrader]

In Iraq i think ( or arghanistan ) an F16 provided close air support to special forces troops who were pinned by enemy. I think the F16 only had cluster bomb (no guns) so instead of bombing he dived and used the sonic boom to disorientate the enemy and trick them into taking cover as it probably sounded like a bomb going off. It apparently worked and gave the guys time to GTFO of dodge.

[@traviswalker8933]

This was in Iraq.

[@SamG-py7ej]

It was Iraq, and I think it was an FA-18

[@sunray501]

I heard a similar story like this on yt somewhere, it was an F-14 that was Winchester, that supposedly disobeyed orders to cover ground troops making an escape using the sonic boom. As wel as it's general presence to keep the enemy defensive. No idea how real it is tho.

[@traviswalker8933]

@@sunray501 it could've easily been shot down if it was Winchester.

[@DarthGandalftheBlack]

It did, but an A10 would have been able to neutralize the ground threat. And im pretty sure it was an F14, not a 16. But don’t quote me on that. Lol

[@cinemage1]

Interesting Pro-Words I’ve found out, in-addition to WINCHESTER: ARIZONA means “out of HARMs,” and DAKOTA means out of all air-to-ground munutions.

[@dieyproductions4403]

Do it with the Hornet too, it is the one which has the "A" in its official designation.

[@vantaaax]

did it last video

[@dieyproductions4403]

@@vantaaax that video didn't have CAS in my opinion.

[@traviswalker8933]

​@@dieyproductions4403it had everything the Hornet was designed to do. A in the designation means that it was designed to be a ground attack platform as well.

[@Danlovestrivium]

@@traviswalker8933 Those designations, in practice, don't mean very much. Simply look at the F-117 as an example. The F-117 isn't fighting anything. There was an "F/A-16" planned, however, all of those requirements were simply met by the block 40 F-16CG with its addition of GPS and LANTRIN pods so the name was never changed.

[@traviswalker8933]

@@Danlovestrivium yup. That I know for sure. Because the F-15E is a ground attack platform and doesn't use the A designation. Just going by their theoretical sense here. Would have been cool to see a naval F-16 but Northrop and MD lobbied too hard to get the navy to pick up the YF-17.

[@D00rGunner]

Strictly CAS it is A-10 all day. If you want true CAS, you choose the platform I used to crew and that would be the AC-130U!

[@kwdriver58]

loved her as a customer. rubble. but you also know the shortcomings.

[@SheepDogNumber6]

TOT

[@traviswalker8933]

The AC-130U won't be nimble enough to defend itself against tracer file and also take out the SAM threats in the area.

[@501stIstheBestRegiment]

@@traviswalker8933 A-10s will also get smoked by SAMs there is a reason they do SEAD before sending them

[@danielbrown9368]

AC-130 is a cheat code for CAS

[@aaronyork3995]

Fun video I work for Pratt &Whitney on F 35 engines. The fact a gun slinger like the 16 can also do some of the 10’s duties is impressive. I think we are reading from the same page here.

[@the_algo_rhythm]

The Viper could do it all. Such a gorgeous bird. Wanted to fly her so badly when I was younger.

[@84MadHatter]

same

[@mikemontgomery2654]

It actually wasn’t.

[@Sajuuk]

Twas made as a lightweight air superiority daytime fighter, actually. It's subsequently become a multirole do it all machine yes.

[@blablabla5361]

You gonna commission to fly them, then?

[@SGTH11b0811]

The best CAS is the one that checks in with you and delivers as requested on your 9 line. I've had all sorts of aircraft show up to help and they all were appreciated.

[@darthvirgin7157]

doing a gun run on a tank, aim for the back. the front is where the armor is thickest. back is thinner. even with 500 lb JDAMs, aim for the back.

[@traviswalker8933]

Good eye.

[@user-dx4hb5le4v]

Thank you for making these missions available! I've been dying for this, appreciate it GS

[@GrowlingSidewinder]

my pleasure, hope you enjoy.

[@miker3866]

That Frogfoot pilot just got his eardrums busted lol. Great Vid

[@spyglass1005]

Thank you for the mission file! That mission was very entertaining to watch.

[@calumalvarado6716]

I like these “Jack of all trades” mission type scenarios that you do, keep up the great work. 👍

[@hanswolfgangmercer]

I love using the viper for A/G work! Thanks for the mission download - I'm really loving these!

[@karankakkar3999]

Thank you fo making the mission available for download! Would love to see more advanced SEAD with the f16. Thanks.

[@MattCV27]

Love CAS missions with the Viper. Also really love having the mission download

[@spyglass1005]

Thank you GS for the mission!

[@jikemenkins7098]

The Viper did great work in this video. You left the area ready for the A-10 to come in and clean up those tanks and other targets. Could have landed, switched aircraft and had 15 more minutes of video content!

[@hunterhess8433]

The better comparison with something we have in DCS would be the Strike Eagle, one all of it's ordnance options are implemented..

[@FJFuentesCO]

Thanks for sharing the missions!

[@loadout3727]

The option to download the missions is so great! Thank you for that :D

[@randomdude4505]

Back in 2003 the base my squadron was operating from for OIF also had multiple A-10 squadrons. I never saw an A-10 carrying anything bigger than a 500 lb bomb.

[@bmorecareful1014]

Thank you for uploading the mission. I'm new still trying to learn how to fly.

[@stefanonapoli7282]

Finally some F-16 A-G action. Thank you!

[@user-vp7kk5vf1v]

Great mission, GS!

[@surf_ai]

Great video. Also F35 with added bombs on wings might make a better comparison since it was built with CAS in mind.

[@sandman4229]

You should now do the exact same mission with the A10!

[@pedrosura]

Awesome video. The A-10 gun is unique but hey, good show!

[@LuhMav]

You should show more love to the f 35 rarely see you use it on the channel. I’d like to see if it could perform the same stealth and behind enemy lines tasks you often do with the f 22. Love the content.

[@georgew.5639]

It’s far easier to be shot down by ground fire in the F16 than the A10 which is very well armored. You made the point of this and quite a bit more.

[@mrjava66]

Bomb truck mode. 4:08 the f-16 is very versatile.😊

[@jamesgasparo9402]

Would love to see the japanese f2 variant of the viper.

[@resurgam_b7]

I think they both fill their respective roles well. You definitely wouldn't want to go buzzing a SAM sites in an A-10, and air to air would be dicey, even against a Frogfoot. At the same time, it's hard for any ground vehicle to argue with 30mm freedom raining down on them, or some 2000 lb high explosive care packages, which an F-16 isn't as well suited (or even capable in the case of the 30mm) to deliver. I think both of them can be effective in a mission like this, probably more so the F-16 because of its superior SEAD potential, but they both bring some specialized capabilities which make them each suited to somewhat different mission profiles, even if there is some substantial overlap.

[@RobTheTip]

I love both and they're definitely different tools for different jobs

[@ASharma-cv7lp]

Keep it up Bro.

[@kswas2784]

Good mission and getting closer to my request! A-10 vs F-35 CAS competition based on the USAF report.

[@wolfofmagdalene92]

Tbh I would see it has a good pairing a-10's with group of vipers could make for an impressive push force. Ngl I feel the a-10 and the f-16c are the best example of multi role while being more suited for either ground or air combat. Would love to see a-10 strike squads with f-16c support maybe a 2 player mission?

[@Rose_Butterfly98]

Really depends on what the CAS entails, if there are SAMs and enemy aircraft, f16 and f35, if there are moving targets, a10, if it's mainly emplacenents and we're trying to open the door for our troops, ac130.

[@Claudius_Nero]

14:38 JDAM may not have killed the tank but it blew the Tank Commander's pants off.

[@gregtoler9283]

It would surely be a mobility kill

[@sohrabroozbahani4700]

A10 gets on station when the air superiority and sead is already done, well, you passed through and accomplished that, plus a bit of additional help before you go, now they can show up and do their own magic...

[@jamieaulbach5120]

During the initial invasion into Iraq we used practice 2000lbs jdams on tanks parked next to hospitals. So it was essentially a 2000 lbs rock. We had video of it and it ripped the turret off and flung it 50 yards away. This was done by F15E.

[@torarne7796]

I believe you can lase the spi to refine the target point for the jdam, but I find lgbs or mavericks are preferrable when attacking tanks. At least with the current damage model. And it's also best to aim at the base of the vehicle, if not the spi might be a point on the ground somewhere behind the target.

[@Wormser_mcfrazzleweiner]

Now I think we need a video like this of the strike eagle.

[@walterrichards1802]

Good job.

[@BladeKi11a]

GS please recreate the BF3 F-18 mission “Going Hunting”

[@An0beseGiraffe]

Thank you SO much for linking the mission download, anytime you do ground attack stuff you should for sure make this a regular thing!

[@EricaCalman]

The F-16 is definitely the more versatile airplane, and if you have to have only one that's the best option. The A-10 is specialized, even within the context of CAS, for situations requiring getting in really closer and visually identifying targets. That role has proven to be indispensable time and time again though and the A-10 truly shines in it.

[@traviswalker8933]

For getting in really close and IDing and striking targets, UAVs do a much better job than a piloted aircraft without the risk of loss of life of a pilot which is an asset to the airforce.

[@Avera9eWh1teShark6]

The F-35's EODAS as well as the MQ-9's sensor suite has rendered low and slow passes for visual ID obsolete and outmoded.

[@traviswalker8933]

@@Avera9eWh1teShark6 the MQ-9 is much more suited to the CAS where visual ID is needed before striking. The effectiveness of this has been seen to a greater length in Afghanistan and in Iraq.

[@EricaCalman]

@@Avera9eWh1teShark6 Even the F-16 can carry higher magnification electrooptical systems but those can’t see through clouds and infrared ones can but don’t always show details that the mark one eyeball can pick up on.

[@kelvaris1]

That gun run you were going fast!!!!

[@luish19779]

Nice run…👍 🦅

[@darthtytherous2107]

I planned on only getting the Afghanistan, Iraq, and MiG 29A modules this year but after these videos and me trailing the F-16, I think I’m getting it too.

[@fadykhazal783]

Nice video, what airbase did you takeoff from?

[@Maxdady01]

That F-16 loadout in the opening roll is crazy!

[@u9Nails]

Oooo! Sheepskin seats! Those are seriously a lot more comfortable that the mil spec green pads. Good choice!

[@MenapiaCustomGuitars]

Really appreciate the miz. file for this mission. Ta much sir.

[@thecobra45]

Holy shit it’s viper

[@Dipper737]

Eject :D

[@user-iu9qi9ch8c]

Be awesome to see some some tornado action from you, perhaps even with JP233 if such a thing exists in DCS

[@GrowlingSidewinder]

No tornado in DCS are this time but they’re working on one. It will be a while though.

[@Chris596D]

guess you'd be in trouble bringing back the jet in that shape haha

[@MrKnoxguy101]

She got tore up pretty good from that ground fire, but got you home. Definitely two different tools for two different (and sometimes the same) environments.

[@aaronzeiger216]

Your video literally made the case for why we need BOTH aircraft.

[@GlennRobert71]

A case for both. Depends on situation.

[@Coolhand101e]

As far as the F-16C vs A-10C debate is concerned, you said it best: "Different tools for different environments." I love 'em both!!

[@PawsomePranksParade]

That gun run was tickling session for that site.

[@louisdrexler7745]

if its a GWOT troops in contact, where its not anti vehicle etc the A10 is great, like closer contact fire fights/ ambushes the a10 is great for that, where i feel slower speeds are needed

[@jasonvick55]

Really makes you wonder about retiring the A-10. But the F-35 should have more precision from further away. One would hope it will. But it’ll take several given its low capacity of weapons.

[@mikemontgomery2654]

You’d need several F-35s to accomplish the same mission that two A-10s would.

[@jacobdoolan4978]

@@mikemontgomery2654counter argument, you’d need 4 f-35 for the a10 to actually do their job

[@FlexibleToast]

It doesn't make me wonder at all. UAVs do the job of A10s cheaper and without putting any lives in danger.

[@CamiloLeonardoGarcia]

F35 for SEAD, UAVs for CAS

[@jasonvick55]

@@jacobdoolan4978 fair point

[@alistair676]

No aero break on landing? (nice vid again! thanks!)

[@unclevampy]

Being an 0311 ground pounder, I can say any air support is greatly appreciated. (We need to give the flyboys something to do in between their spa treatment and luxury dinners). However, there is nothing more motivating than the brrrrrrrrt coming from the A-10, and the loitering ability the A-10 is also a big bonus.

[@tinkertalksguns7289]

Different tools for different missions. The F16 has it's strengths as you have shown, but the A10 is a much heavier hitter in its proper use-case.

[@chrisihg2253]

I love the Falcon. But would be so great if it would be possible to give the A-10 a radarpod and use AIM-120 and AGM-88. And other long range stuff

[@beniman292]

I think you've shown before the F16 is great at SEAD and airspace sanitation which should make way for the a10s to do close air support. If the battlefield requires it. However if there's 2 tanks and a bunch of planes just send an f22 with aim120's because we know how good they are at being an AGM

[@benn454]

This is why teamwork makes the dream work. Each has their place on the battlefield.

[@eagle4010]

i think the f16 is more suited for this kind of scenario where you've got sam's and air assets going aroud. If you're only going to do cas with no sam's (or at least someone taking care of them) and airspace sanitized or some sort of air cover i'd definitely go for the a10

[@alderwolf7687]

F-16's make excellent Wild Weasel's but their CAS lacks a lot to be desired. Usually they stay high very rarely getting low unless they can't avoid it for some reason because just how vulnerable to ground fire they are.

[@JebHoge]

A-10s do the same thing. They stay above AAA as much as possible. Nobody's cavalier about taking hits.

[@alderwolf7687]

@@JebHoge Never said anyone was cavalier but when it comes to CAS and getting down low the A-10 is much better to have than an F-16. I say that as a crew chief who has worked both airframes.

[@mely9216]

Blud never disappoints

[@ThePhantomRocket]

I feel like you could maybe make the GAU-8 more compact in modern days, if so, externally mounted gun pod on the center pylon of the f-16 would make A2G gunning way better. Overall I think they both have a time and place, the F-16 just has more times and more places where it is better, because of it's multi-role capability.

[@mezer4u497]

Great title for a new channel and ideas... What if? What if the f-16, could do the A-10's job better? What if we send a F-15E instead of the F-16? What if a pilot is shot down and has to eject, can we get him in a timely manner say the F-16, F-18 to clear the air space, F-15E for long range A/G, F-18 for Meduim A/G, A-10 and the apache for close air support followed by Black Hawks to touch down and pick up pilot. All in a set time with no KIA. (sorry got carried away) but you get the idea. What if.... a channel was done in such a manner so others could download and try the missions as well and post their results on that missions. What If?

[@TheEarthwinders]

Are you lasing before you release the JDAMS? It helps improve target location accuracy and makes it less likely to land next to a target instead of hitting it directly.

[@gabefelter6262]

Hey buddy! F-14 vs su-27 BVR would be great, or F-14 vs F-16 (you in the F-14) love it.

[@davidnelson5381]

Do they have a weapons range in DCS like a driving range in golf? It seems like you could use some practice on your shot.

[@zomfgroflmao1337]

Does DCS not have glide bombs? Because that seems way more the norm compared to the classical 'fly over and just drop' versions, especially in contested air space, because the range is that good (like 30km or more depending on height and speed.

[@Finis08]

Definitely different tools for different environments. If you already have control of an airspace and are primarily providing CAS there is no question the A10 is the proper choice. If the airspace is still contested or you are needing to fill multiple roles the F16 is the best option.

[@SSJ4Brohan]

He got the TGPs on to get that Tomcat feel.

[@user-df5ju3tk5c]

you should do some more F-15 close air support

[@Branto123]

Can we get a video with the F16-XL? I have no clue if it’s even in DCS but it’s such an interesting aircraft

[@mikemontgomery2654]

I don’t believe it is.

[@bitmanagent67]

that is a tough bird.

[@BrettManZA80]

Damn that's one stacked Viper

[@jurajhablak3424]

GS, do you have any idea or information whether DCS is going to have dynamic campaign? I am interested in it, because so many years of development and such thing will help a lot. These missions are nice, but if you know before you take off, what enemy is there, how many of them. If you load such mission 4x it is still the same, no variation in it.

[@7rogue865]

Loving the video and content as usual! Have you ever thought of doing a groundstrike or CAS in the Tomcat? Think it would be pretty cool to see the bombcat in action!!

[@keepwalking6041]

we need revamp of sam logic, being able to use datalink or use infrared only.. hide behind houses.. it would make whole thing much interesting, from plane and sam perspective..

[@RPGWoodworking]

it's another tool in the toolbox...get as many tools as you can. can you do a video (maybe one of those documentary types) showing the difference between the SA-3, SA-6, SA-11, etc? i'm sure it's easy to differentiate once you know but i'm also sure it would be very informative. keep it up bro!

[@byzmack1334]

At the end you wouldn't be flying that helicopter until it had been repaired and the other thing you hit with the cannon aren't rated for 20mm rounds. Something tells me they would be out of action for a while. Which since there were ground forces in the area means those units would be lost too. The tank probably made it out but the 500 pounder could have damaged its tracks. I do love the a10 though.

[@208SledHead]

A10 for me with the bigger gun and reinforced cockpit. 👌

[@danielclark9193]

I think you just demo'd why the A10 is going away; red air would do to them exactly what you did to their Frogfoots. Also since you would certainly have at least one wing man it might make more sense to ditch some of your AIM-120s for AGM-65s. Great mission, great flying.

[@shlomojacobs-velde3838]

Would it be crazy to do an F/A-18 Super or Legacy Hornet vs a F-35C, like an old vs new US Navy dogfight?

[@therocinante3443]

I love the 16 in CAS, but the control setup and SA in the A-10 just can't be beat

[@therocinante3443]

That being said, I wish the A-10 could use HARM!

[@Czenda24]

@@therocinante3443 if a Mig-29 can use HARM....

[@StiveGuy]

Might have to pickup the F16 next.