Colnago C50 - Cut Up and Review

[@LuescherTeknik]

For all the people out there that think it is a FAKE. Do you really think a fake would have an expensive well made machined titanium bottom bracket shell or do think it's more likely they would use something cheaper and readily available? Think about it!

[@runningwithshemp]

​@m Way to perseverate! - kzbin.info/www/bejne/eqK8hadroqaUn7c

[@totalcycling]

The reason people think this could be a fake is because the C50 was not available in that colorway and you have been evasive when asked for the serial number. I suspect the serial number is either absent due to an earlier repair or hidden under thick white paint. If this is the case then say so. You should have been honest at the outset and said it was repainted it and also who repainted it. This was an old and accident damaged frame. However it had not failed and could have still been ridden. I believe the more likely cause of those cracks in the paint was a bad respray. You did not highlight any cracks on the inside and I could not see any. I would invite your viewers to compare this 'review' of a C50 which had not failed to your one on a Giant Propel - a newer frame - which had actually failed irreparably. I quote 'the sort of satin matt tends to be a bit brittle. Sometimes we have seen like a knock on the top tube and the paint cracks and the underlying carbon can be ok sometimes'. In spite of the Propel having failed and having a massive void along the top tube and numerous voids in the adhesive as well as wrinkles and filler you spoke about these but left out the yellow pencil. At the end you concluded the Giant was overall quite good. How so? It certainly didn't last as long as the Colnago. You did not cut through the bottle cage rivnuts on the C50. I suspect a plausible reason for the ribbons of carbon and delamination near those was due to you breaking the last bit of carbon and then forcing the rivnuts back onto the frame for your discussion. I have to mention the bottom bracket insert again, possibly the most expensive bb shell ever conceived. You stated that someone might have an issue if they used a titanium bottom bracket without anti-seize. Who makes a titanium bottom bracket cup? You could equally have said this C50 is no good because if could be attacked by the acid atmosphere in Venus. Its true that it would be damaged on Venus but no one is ever taking it there.

[@pablogimeno464]

And so? Where is colnago?

[@totalcycling]

@Chris DON Really? What do you use? I spent 15 years trying to buy back my old C50 because I felt It was the best bike i'd ever ridden. I get to try basically every brand as I have a shop and we do repairs. I'm enjoying riding it currently. Its light comfortable, totally creak and rattle free. I love it. Going to build a C64 soon.

[@thesoultwins72]

@@totalcycling ...........When I first saw this C50 frame - I immediately thought that it was a 'fake'. [the decals are a dead giveaway - especially the Colnago decal itself]. I also agree with you that this does not appear to be a standard Colnago colourway. I would also like to mention that I used to ride with a guy that had a brand new GIANT Propel - and less than 3 months after he bought it, the rear chain stay completely sheared which resulted in the rear mech lodging in the rear wheel and fetched him off! I was riding next to him at the time this happened and he was extremely lucky as he was on the inside - and just fell into a grassy ditch. However, if he had been on the outside, he would have fallen in the direct path of passing cars and other vehicles. Finally, for almost 25 years I have always ridden GIOS bikes - and never had a moment's problem with them. Despite their lack of kudos compared with some of the 'top brands' they are a lovely comfortable ride, relatively light and unbelievably robust. However, I have recently acquired a Colnago C60 and I am reasonably impressed. [mind you and like you, I do like the look of the C64!]

[@binhvo3668]

I have owned a C40 since 1995 and still love it. My opinion is that it is all depends on how you treat your bike. I have kept my in climax room and performed all maintenance by myself. After 25 years owning, it’s still looking,riding as good as the first day I got it. I guess there was no fake frames back then and knowing that carbon fiber is sourced of plastic and bonds together with adhesive to form a frame and can’t take the excessive heat or temperature drops below 0 zero. Regardless what is going on with the bike industry now a days I still have faith in Italian made over Taiwanese. As the matter of fact I have bought another Colnago C60 to build up a bike for my grandson up coming birthday. By doing some research with trusted well known bike shop owners, they were all come to the point that the C60 (produced in 2015,16) were manufactured and hand painted in Italy. Bottom line is as a cycling enthusiastic for more then 4 decades I have always treated my bike with up most care and in return it is giving me back all the enjoyment every time I am riding on it

[@amc1974]

Much the same here. Admired the Mapei GB team of the mid 90s, eventually bought a C40 in Mapei "Art Decor" in 1998. Just to correct Leuscher Technik - the C40 was lightweight when they came out in 1996/97 ish, but yes, they are no longer comparable in weight to current carbon offerings. What I've seen doesn't surprise me too much, slightly disappointed to see if I'm being honest, but carbon frame development was still very much on the 45 degrees section of "Moores Law" in the 90s. My bike has less than 2000 miles on it, kept inside like yours and doesn't get wet or used in races/bunch rides. Colnago steel fork (pre Star Carbon) with Cinelli Grammo titanium stem so rides super smooth. If I was unfortunate enough to crash it, I'd probably accept I need to retire it to the wall as an art piece.

[@LuescherTeknik]

I did say that the C40 was a gamechanger, light and strong for it time..

[@tommyfreckmann6857]

​@amc1974 how is it treating you these days? And the C40 actually came out in '94.

[@tommyfreckmann6857]

Do you still own her? And how is she going?

[@gregoryblind8954]

Loving the weekly uploads, thank you!!

[@vastosbicycles8325]

Great vid to show this 'incredible' frame, which makes me lol and speechless. What a treat/entertaining for my Friday night. Thank you very much!

[@jjschmiedlin8813]

I've had my C50 since 2006, and probably have around 70k+ miles on it. There are issues with corrosion on the metal inserts, and with the clear coat around the cable guides, but I've never felt safer on any other carbon frame. Some of the carbon tubing on modern frames is so thin that you can flex it with a finger pinch. That scares me.Yes, the carbon construction is better, but there is little room for imperfection in a 700-1000g frame. I think the thickness of the tubing and lugs on this frame compensates for some of the limits of carbon construction during the early days. I read an interview with Ernesto somewhere around this time where he was asked why Colnago hasn't built a superlight frame, and he replied that he wanted to be able to sleep at night. I think this is an honest review of the carbon tech of Colnago at the time, and all of its limitations. I wouldn't be surprised if mine is similar to this one on the inside. However, I will say that this is the best bike I have ever ridden, and I've owned, raced, and test rode a load of bikes since the 90's. Again, I've had this bike for 14 years, 70k+ miles, and crashed it several times. Could you say the same thing 14 years from now with some of the high end carbon frames today?

[@maddoc68]

Another mystic brand goes down the drain. Thanks to Australia. Love your vids.

[@thedownunderverse]

“I thought, how are they gonna mould the hole in the chain stay properly? Now we know. They don’t mould it properly” 😂🙈

[@jackblevel8296]

I love these videos, really amazing to see how these frames are constructed.

[@luftens]

Have you seen any newer Colnagos like the C60 or C64, and do they have the same issues? I'm curious as to whether many of these problems might be down to older manufacturing techniques which might have been improved over time.

[@durianriders]

Lol. Big brand Bike tech is about max profits and marketing to dentist's, noobs and barristers.

[@theadventurebiker]

@@durianriders ☝️☝️☝️ THIS.

[@olo398]

hahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha oh you silly boy!

[@glennoc8585]

@@durianriders you'd be surprised some of the guys in my group ruide bling but just work as clerks and sub 60k jobs. One bloke does uber and a shift at bws but just bought a $2000 wheelset. The professional guys i know are actually more shrewd and buy on the sales and even low use second hand. It's that old stereotype of 10k bike 2k car

[@anderstorger3211]

I'm also curious. My guess is that it has improved, but I still think they are not as well made as Time, comes down to manufacturing techniques. I think they have more margin for error though in these lugged frames, since lugged design can't win in weight they have opted for safety instead and probably make them a bit overbuilt compared to others. I wouldn't get a C40 or C50 to ride, I've drawn the line at EPS (not sure that is right though, but I have one anyway), the steel frames I can get older. There's a lot of "conspiracy" comments here about manufacturers only in it for making big money and fooling customers etc. I don't believe in that. Quality problems we see here I think is mostly about limited know-how, they tried their best and this is what came out, unfortunately. Much of these problems show up after long time use, and Colnago is probably the most collectible brand and is very popular second hand so the frames see long time of use. I think they try to learn from their mistakes. Even if they were only in it for the money, improving design and manufacturing techniques is important, especially when their frames are used for such a long period of time. Today lugged designs is no longer competitive in races now when aero is so important and their Taiwan made frames are used there instead. It seems like they are marketing the Italian-made C64 more towards amateur riders, and indeed many report it to be a very nice riding bike. I'd love to have a C60 or C64, and I might get one second hand at some point to upgrade my EPS, which then probably will pass on to a new owner. Colnago frames in Italy is not extremely expensive, it's high end, but not excessive. Pinarello is more expensive. Seems to be huge markup at resellers in some other parts of the world though. Made in Italy does not guarantee any particular in quality, but it guarantees that the labor is much more expensive due to that the workers actually have some social security.

[@perh.nrgaard1813]

Great, there is a lot to be learned from this - first and foremost, despite all the voids, glue issues, missing corrosion protection at inserts and drilling damage, this frame has survived 15 years of use and abuse clearly without ANY serious incidents, until now where it gradually starts to crack. I have an old top-build Cinelli lugged Reynolds 653 frame , it wasn't any older before it started showing similar signs. I know what it has been through and can't see any reason to complain. It seems that Colnago knew they were struggling with the process and used excessive amounts of material to try and counter it, not at all optimal - it is a band-aid approach. Some of the modern super lightweight designs shown by you, leave very little room for design mistakes and poor process control.... We are yet to see a flawless frame cut up - and I am afraid it wont happen anytime soon :)

[@ukaszbazejewski4780]

I have Colnago Dream from 1999, it's wonderful well made alu frame, Columbus tubi etc. This C50 is in other hand, is very outrageous.

[@glennoc8585]

Early Carbon was a learning curve not unlike a lot of other nations offerings to be fair. I honestly think the game has lifted in the last few years. The only old Colnagos I'd buy is steel but then i like the zullo and Tomasini's moreso.

[@kieron88ward]

I would agree that this was part of carbons learning curve and Colnago probably did more than many to bring carbon to the mainstream (if Colnagos can ever be called mainstream). New frames need much better production and inspection standards in order to safely meet ridiculously low frames weights of 700g but I wonder if modern cheaper frames are really any better made than this.

[@anderstorger3211]

I have two Colnagos, a steel Master and and carbon EPS (from 2009), both bought second hand. I like the whimsical paint jobs and the history of the brand, and they are somewhat collectible. I've had the carbon fork of the Master scanned (no issues), haven't scanned the EPS though (can't do it locally). It was in great condition though. Looking at old Colnagos on Ebay there is often problems with corrosion around the inserts, I avoid those. I'm not surprised what I see here though, I've never thought Colnago would have better build quality than the others (except the tubes as those are made separately) and probably lot of variation, they are not a high tech company. However they haven't competed in the race-to-the-bottom in weight, so I think they may have a bit more margin for manufacturing issues. The EPS carbon steerer tube is so thick walled that most compression plugs do not fit, and the one supplied from Colnago is longer than most. What I have seen forks are overbuilt compared to other manufacturers from the same era, which I think is a good thing. Due to that they are attractive on the second hand market many frames are used for long period of time by many owners. It would be interesting to see how more recent Colnagos look, the C64 is marketed as the "safest frame in the world". From a design point of view I think that could be true, ie they haven't raced to minimize weight. I wonder what the manufacturing quality looks like now.

[@PeakTorque]

What a Carbonara...

[@thedownunderverse]

Peak Torque 😂

[@sylvainmichaud2262]

Grandpa's Carbonara secret sauce recipe has been revealed ! Makes you wonder how come (no pun intended ;-) so many cyclists loved it so much ! It's almost like fetishism.

[@thedownunderverse]

Sylvain Michaud *foolishism

[@marcusFZ6]

Would be interesting to see what changes they have made over the years in their manufacturing processes. Love to see a new one sliced 'n diced.

[@anderstorger3211]

If you email Colnago with the serial number they can help out with when it was produced, which can be interesting information. I've done so with my second hand Colnagos. I'd say it's extremely unlikely that the frame we see here would be a fake that some seems to believe, fakes weren't common at the time this frame was made. I haven't looked inside Colnago frames like this before, but have looked at lots of second hand frames, and visible corrosion are quite common issues of the older frames. I don't think the manufacturing issues you see is due to they did don't care or have deliberately cut corners, but simply because they did not know better. They have also been quite experimental in some of their designs, and some did not turn out so well. They have changed manufacturing techniques before when they have discovered issues, the Master had internal cable routing in the top tube for some time, but it developed corrosion issues over time so they went back to external. Likewise I would expect that they have noted the corrosion issues in their carbon frames and done something about it in newer designs. They stopped making those strange chainstays too.

[@himatic7]

This confirms my impressions formed when screwing Colnagos, Looks and Treks together in the C40 era. Full build on a Colnago frame took twice as long as long as on a Look. Mating surfaces and threads all had to be faced or tapped. Furthermore, the steel Master frame employed cost-cutting cheats that sped up production but added weight. Example: Colnago used stepped lugs at the BB. Thus, the stays weren't mitred, but simply cut square and butted up against the step. This is a clever technique; I think Trek may have pioneered it on their steel touring bikes, but it's more Henry Ford than Enzo Ferrari. All this 1st hand experience lent weight of industry scuttlebutt about the factory. My attitude as a mechanic was that Colnagos were fancy paint and slick marketing used to sell distinctly average, mass produced frames. That people are already a screaming that the above C50 must be a fake (in 2004? Yeah, right) just goes to show that all that mystique bull found its mark. Me? I opted for a Look when it came to buying my own bike.

[@runningwithshemp]

I figured as much, I'm surprised people are so skeptical on the authenticity this really pre-dates the flood of generic stuff on Fleabay, Alibaba or Aliexpress buy quite a few years.

[@glennoc8585]

When you cobsuder the giant CF frames from 1995 are still going strong

[@thedownunderverse]

Well said!

[@andrewr.786]

Definitely nice to hear from the perspective of a mechanic working on them. Our shop had a pretty similar relationship with Cervelo. As much as some people liked them, they had some decent qc problems for us and were frankly a pain. Personally I love the C40 but I may just be lucky since mine is an old team bike and has been rebuilt multiple times.

[@perh.nrgaard1813]

Really? kzbin.info/www/bejne/jZXKmXR3os-sgtU&ab_channel=LuescherTeknik

[@davidward4329]

Great video , I cried all the way through it , so sad

[@sylvainmichaud2262]

Back in may 2020, Colnago was sold to an investment firm called Chimera Investments LLC located in UAE. Imagine a bike made by a chimera from a land full of mirages. In other word, continuity !

[@cccpkingu]

Bike companies owned by investment firms, what could go wrong? Has that ever worked?

[@alexalex-wc7qs]

Wow, man, that is really scary! Not only i should expect my nago's might crumble under my butt, they may also disappear while i ride them!

[@92point5]

September 2020 and a Colnago bike rider wins the Le Tour for the 1st time...riding for Team UAE (where the investment firm whom now own Colnago are located no less)....having taken the yellow jersey by 1 minute after overcoming a deficit of a minute on the penultimate stage individual time trial...what a strange coincidence...a Chimera in a world full of Mirages indeed...

[@sylvainmichaud2262]

@@92point5 It's up to you to think a mirage is real. Me, I don't drink sand !

[@drayzen9678]

Raoul, Would it be correct to say that resins and bonding materials have improved in the past 15y since this frame was made? If yes, could you give an approximate general % improvement in each? The more of your videos I watch, the more comfortable I am on my Ti frame.. 😄 What % of new carbon frames made today do you think you would give a fail to straight from factory? Do you currently see any carbon frame manufacturers that produce a substantially better quality product?

[@LuescherTeknik]

Yes, materials and process have improved even in the last few years. It's hard to give a number as both are inter-related. Not many are bad enough to fail, however it does happen and you don't want it to happen to you.

[@WalrusRiderEntertainment]

What’s the best bike frame manufacturer you have come across for consistently well engineered and manufactured carbon frames?

[@telemaison1057]

see the Time frame review on this channel

[@FeintMotion]

Would love to see this ATR made frame contrasted with a Toray supplied frame like an EPS or C59

[@kieron88ward]

I've seen aerospace composite wing tests and they put loads of delaminations and voids in critical locations and then strength test it (it's how you account for manufacturing variability and in service damage). The fact is the C50 is pretty tough which is why you can still find many of these on eBay even though they are 15+ years old. It would have been interesting if they strength tested the frame before teardown.

[@LuescherTeknik]

I have been part of that testing in the past, it is a little more complex than that as it is difficult to accurately produce artificial flaws. Mostly these frames are tough as there is some redundancy in the design, this one did fail at the seat junction.

[@johntharp22]

I remember seeing a beautiful De Rosa carbon frame on display at a shop in Austin. I was able to peek into the headtube, and was horrified to see frayed carbon threads exposed like bad paper mache. It amazes me that carbon became the material of choice for most when the quality control from so many high-end brands was so low.

[@ChinaCycling]

Friday afternoon frame right there. It's just that some factories have the attitude that every afternoon is Friday afternoon. We can only be thankful that British Leyland never made carbon bike frames.

[@danmartinez9497]

I've seen their buses here in Dubai..

[@maddoc68]

what about cutting up some random winspace frame??

[@nuttynut722]

@@maddoc68 haha

[@littlemichael7]

In the 1996 Paris Roubaix, the toughest test for a road bike, team Mapei came in first, second and third all on Colnago C40’s. And it wasn’t a Friday. I ride a 95 and a 2003 Colnago C40 regularly and they both still look great and ride fantastic. I’m sure the Winspace frame is good buts let’s race and abuse one in all weathers like that C50 obviously has for the next twenty years and see what it looks like then.

[@jameshoward9700]

Great video mate. Sad to see that chainstay. A mixed bag - some tidy tubes, but poor lug joins and drill holes. I guess it's a fairly old frame, so it would be interesting to see if QC improved with subsequent iterations of the C series.The problems around the lugs made me wonder if lug to tube construction is problematic for adequate compaction and void avoidance. Parlee too? You suggest this at the end, but can it be done right - ie are recent bikes better?

[@jhnbtr]

Made in 2004 and looks like he got his monies worth out of the frame. It be cool to cut up a c64 and compare.

[@cccpkingu]

It looks like he should have bought a steel or titanium bike.

[@jhnbtr]

@@cccpkingu LOL there is no fun cutting up steel bikes. I have a colnago master and it is a heavy bike, that why I don't ride it, but its still around. I had a c60 and recently upgraded to a c64 disc. The C64 is a pleasure to ride. If I crash it I will send it in to get cut up.

[@skogling]

From you point of view Raul, which frame are the best in 2020?

[@domestique3954]

I would like to know if you would recommend riding an old Vitus K9 from the mid eighties. It hasn’t been ridden much km and i kept it away from sunlight and stored it in a climatized room. I don’t worry about the carbon tubes,but does the adhesive a good job after more than 4 decades?! Thought about trying out on the rollers when the buildup is finally done. 🤙. 🚴💦

[@runningwithshemp]

I put this in as reply to someone else comment but I'll post it again. If this is a 2004 run the odds of it being a counterfeit are quite low. Full carbon was pretty rare and mostly limited to in-house builds by Trek, Colnago, Look and Time. Around 2003-2004 mark the point Cannondale dropped Time as the OEM fork and moved production to Asian after the bankruptcy. If I remember correctly Specialized Roubaix was one of the first outsourced all carbon bike and was about 2004 (when I worked at a shop we sold them). At that time Alley was still all aluminium and one of first Tarmac's was a (very ghastly) Al-carbon blend. 2005-ish Giant released its first full carbon bikes for team T-Mobile and following year first full carbon Tarmac for Specialized. I vaguely remember 2007-2008 carbon becoming wide spread and shortly after all generic carbon stuff started appearing on fleabay.

[@splashpit]

runningwithshemp I still ride my 2006 Tarmac every Sunday morning . I'm still happy with it and not tempted to upgrade and be a disc jockey .

[@runningwithshemp]

@@splashpit My primary road bike is rim, but use disc on everything else (CX, XC and long travel gravity bike). Rim still my favorite and has got a place and will continue to be relevant as long manufactures support it basic high quality alloy rim. With performance it's pretty simple dry out = rim, trail, wet & mud = disk. I also don't see the point of a carbon rim expect for aero or freeride/DH For example a disc Mavic UST open carbon is 405 grams/$600 USD, vs 430 grams/$100 USD for alloy version. Seems crazy to pay $1000 to take 25 grams off only to add on 150-250 grams of sprung weight wheel (bigger spoke flanges, disc flange, rotor, bolts/centerlock etc). It's not like downhill or fat bike where an alloy rim is 250-400 grams heavier and not as strong

[@theadventurebiker]

Great review!

[@johnbuxton3841]

On the subject of Italian bikes, I don't recall seeing any info or cut ups on De Rosa, which I own. Any comments ?

[@LuescherTeknik]

I have a De Rosa here to cut up!

[@johnbuxton3841]

@@LuescherTeknik Brilliant I really look forward to that. Mine is a 2013. R848. For it to be one of those would be a miracle. Great show something I look forward to

[@davidbidwell250]

One day a De Rosa? How are they doing these days? I love the looks of the SK Pinninfarina

[@graydonbardwell4637]

I had an SK Pininfarina in Israel Blue, lovely bike. Every ride was an occasion. Unfortunately got stolen and I ended up replacing it with a 2020 Trek Domane... faster and more comfortable but somehow not as special.

[@durianriders]

Same OEM factory as I use.

[@teunluijbregts2533]

Thanks a lot for this review, this was a true eye opener! Now I understand why Rabobank went theough so many of these frames - and [ none - edited ] so few of the riders kept a C model upon their retirement.😭😭😢 Ah well there’s always the Master 😒

[@FeintMotion]

Rasmussen retain his 2005 Extreme C prototype and the 2006 training rig. He doesn't ride them as much as his newer C's but they're still in rotation

[@teunluijbregts2533]

And Johan Museeuw did - but they don’t ride them anymore. Collectibles, not bicycles.

[@cgrigio9182]

Dualshock Destroyer I can confirm this is 100% true. Rasmussen lives quite near me and I often see him on the Rabobank one

[@teunluijbregts2533]

C Grigio cool, I’ve always liked the C40/50 - glad some of them are still being used as they should be 👍👍👍

[@jonathanbird173]

The frame was made around 16 years ago so production processes and quality control will have improved a lot since then. Nevertheless, examining a large number of frames in any material will soon show you that there is no real hierarchy of countries when it comes to production quality, and maybe not of brands either. 'Made in Italy' doesn't automatically make it better than 'Made in China'. Colnago or De Rosa doesn't guarantee it's better than Fibertek or Waltly. Unfortunately, for the average customer, it's only the marketing that tends to win the sale, and some companies are much better at that than others.

[@cccpkingu]

What bike actually made in Italy is worse than any bike made in China? I'll wait.

[@jonathanbird173]

Maybe the one in this video?

[@cup_and_cone]

*Broken Italian*: "But Raoul, you pay for passion. You cannot put a price."

[@Abunnywrote]

Pay 4 shit

[@cccpkingu]

*Wealthy UAE conglomerate posing as Italian* Oh, you thought you were buying a reputable brand, that's too bad. OWOWOWOW

[@CDMJDMHHC]

How old is this frame? as in year of purchase how long was it ridden was one a stable or primary bike?

[@merckxy54]

How old is this frame ? When was it made, 15 years ago? Its certainly not a good advert for Colnago!

[@jasonwright6823]

Is tube to tube construction a more reliable technique for building carbon frames?

[@kaitheus6951]

Just a thought: I had a 6000 series hardtail mountain bike that I had powder coated. It looked really nice, but baking the powder coat onto the frame wrecked the heat treatment, over the next couple of months it developed numerous cracks. Could the repaint of the C-50 damaged the resin? May be the paint was baked on, or one of the chemicals in the paint/cleaning process. I seems strange that it should develop all those cracks after the paint job.

[@LuescherTeknik]

No the cracks are due to laminate wrinkles which present as cracks over time as the resin fails.

[@shibaburn7725]

Can you switch back to the red pen or some other color? The yellow pen does not stand out well, especially on my phone.

[@eljamo93]

Thank you for this video

[@troruaz]

This kind of video showcasing all the failing of what appears to just be a well-used old frame (vs an obvious collision/crash/etc) always makes me wonder, should I just take my bike (2008 specialized roubaix) for a maintenance-level carbon inspection? i'm no speed demon on descents but fast enough that if something fails, i'm gonna have a bad time.

[@ohshitnotanotherknob]

Yes, definitely. Or just buy a new one?

[@jbthomson89]

Paul Stephens, but what “new” carbon bikes apart from Time aren’t taking the piss these days?

[@triode1212]

But I thought CFRP bikes don't fatigue....

[@lynnebarkas6906]

Is the latest C60 series improved? I’m considering a purchase. ??

[@LuescherTeknik]

Lets find out, I have a couple of C60 frames. Stay tuned.

[@littlemichael7]

I have a 95 and a 2003 Colnago C40 and they are both fantastic bikes to ride and still look great so 26 years later I’m sure the C60 will be fine.

[@Lestalad1961]

I don’t have a dog in this fight but if this is a 2004 frame I’m assuming the owner has had many years and miles out of this frame before the issues became apparent. It does look like a horror show now and was like this on the inside the day he bought it. However hasn’t the frame ultimately done what it was supposed to do? Give the owner 15+ years of riding an early carbon framed high end bike. I ride a 2014 Carbon Felt F4 and apart from a few witness cracks on the striped paintwork I can’t see any issues after 35,000 miles. If I have it cut up in a few years and find similar issues should I feel lucky that it didn’t fail or happy with the fun and miles it gave me as a recreational cyclist over the years? At the moment I don’t think my bike owes me anything ( other than not to fall apart on a swift descent)

[@sodalitia]

You are missing the point. It doesn't matter how long the frame remains functional or resists structural failure. What does matter is that those voids, stupid chain stay design, and adhesive fillers didn't appear in the frame due to use, but are engineering and production flaws. It might not bother you, but it does affect the frame performance and is unacceptable in products for this price.

[@Lestalad1961]

@pafnucek. It’s surely more of a question of did it affect the frame performance for the owner for 12 or 13 years solid use and does he or she think the performance was acceptable for the price? What kind of life span should we expect from a seldom used carbon frame to one clocking up 7k mile# per year. I’m not arguing on behalf of Colnago and I don’t own one. I personally don’t link the chain stay design but I’m guessing the owner did. If had 12-13 solid use from the bike without incident I’d say that was a pretty good return on my investment. Cutting it up and seeing these flaws after my time with it wouldn’t change my opinion. We all don’t have the benefit of seeing inside a bike before we buy it and if it does everything it should do for 10 years and 50k miles I’d be satisfied. Just my opinion.

[@slowerandolder]

Hang in there Chris. The quiet reasonable voice is always shouted down. But we'll enjoy many miles of riding as these guys agonize over what to own!

[@sodalitia]

@@slowerandolder The quiet reasonable voice says that you are fanboys making fashion purchases and justifying them with feeeeeelings.

[@mrGTD170]

That is a heavy used bike. Someone had a lot of fun with it.

[@glennoc8585]

Thats a point and you could have years on it but it was impacted. The point here is this could be worse because the quality qc, parts and method was sub standard on that framecl at that time. Colnago aren't and weren't cheap frames so customers expect a standard thats why they pay the premium.

[@orielireland]

Have a mid 90s Raleigh Ti. Raced plenty and still going strong.

[@MrYAMAHA32177]

Can you imagine descending the Cormet de Roseland, @100kph on a two year old carbon bike like this, YiKeS@!

[@caroliner6234]

Ce serait mieux de ne pas savoir pour le cavalier.

[@cup_and_cone]

Just two year old? This frame is well over 10 years old.

[@glennoc8585]

If you're descending at 100kmh in lycra and a foam lid on any bicycle with no million dollar contract I'd hope you have a good credit score with the man upstairs. I wouldn't worry about the frame its the tyres letting go or a car pulling out and 50 metres to pull up with lockup.

[@napskate]

@@cup_and_cone could be 16 years old c50 can out in 2004

[@Sills71]

So the "problem" with threaded BBs is mechanics that don't understand Italian threading and installing the BB without anti-seize? Well that does not seem like an issue with the BB at all to me... That would be the same as mechanics that don't install or remove press-fit properly... which is NOT the issue with press-fit.

[@LuescherTeknik]

Sure, operator error can always be a problem, all I am saying is that threaded is not immune to these problems.

[@Sills71]

@@LuescherTeknik Nothing is idiot proof. I own a press-fit (BB30 of all things....) and it works great. (high end titanium frame) BUT, in the real world threaded BBs have far less issues than press fit. I owned a custom steel bike (maker's 3rd frame) in 1990 that had an macaroni shaped BB and required a Mavic one piece BB to solve the issue. The frame cracked in less than 100 miles, letting a guy build his third frame with ultra light steel tubing was not a good idea. Large bike manufactures are never going to make press fit well... it hurts margins too much. So it is better to go back to threaded and be done with it.

[@byllzy5449]

Was this a fake Colnago or genuine? can you photograph serial number?

[@Lestalad1961]

@BYLLZY. This is a 2004 model and as such very unlikely to be a fake.

[@Lestalad1961]

@m. A 2004 frame. What do you think?

[@pablogimeno464]

Please post a picture of the serial number

[@londonlionel]

What a horror show. Shocked to see this from Colnago.

[@thedownunderverse]

Why? Their carbon bikes are way overrated

[@MrPagnu]

C’mon it’s a 15 years old bike. Problem is when we see this on nowadays bikes although the technology is mature

[@londonlionel]

Top Reviewer That bike was a total mess inside from day one.

[@user-uh6lm5wv6n]

@@thedownunderverse must be why they have the most wins of any other manufacturer.

[@thedownunderverse]

2020 1) you think the pro’s get frames off the same production line we do? 2) timing - they’ve had the benefit of being under some “special” riders due to marketing. Those riders would have won on any brand

[@josephfarrugia2350]

The whole point of the video is not age-related stress (which is also important). It's about the quality of the original MOULDING, the strength & durability of the building process & design. "Not impressive" is his diplomatic statement at one point in the video. Unless I am much mistaken, *the frame didn't break under the owner despite all this, correct?* Despite the cracks & relatively non-ideal original design in some parts of the frame. Is that a fair assessment?

[@CDMJDMHHC]

Also does someone pick apart steel and aluminum frames to show the ugly side of all bike frames?

[@steveflor9942]

Thanks Raoul, for this eye-opening video. Seems Colnago went looking for trouble and found it abbondanza. Wonder if the C64 is any better...? Tend to think not. They still use fluted tubes...The bottom bracket shell with the crazy splines...? Could there be a more obvious stress riser? Best regards from verrry smoggy SoCal.

[@cccpkingu]

Don't know about the C64, but why not get a steel one from Battaglin or Daccordi etc. if you want an Italian bike?

[@joansheppard9611]

I own a Colnago Dream HX which has the fancy split carbon chain stay - which is probably why I originally bought it. It was super expensive $$$$ and I'm really disappointed (sad face) to learn that chain stay design serves no structural purpose and may be just a gimmick, not to mention that there could also be a plastic mould support bag stuck in there.

[@durianriders]

That's added porosity. Colnago use a unique blend of of pumicestone and Toray 150 in case your frame fails you can cut it up and use it as a foot pumice.

[@theadventurebiker]

LOL

[@glennoc8585]

Makes sense there's shed loads of pumice in Italy.

[@VegasCyclingFreak]

There are imperfections but I didn’t see anything that would make me afraid to ride it, because it’s lugged construction. They for sure could’ve drilled the holes better... they were drilling them too fast or the bits were a little dull.

[@picshooter]

A boss told me a long time ago "don't come to me with a problem, come with the solution" Have any companies come to you for help?

[@londonlionel]

Slightly off topic but I would love to see a team bike cut up to see if they're any better than the bikes sold to ordinary consumers.

[@LuescherTeknik]

Yes, it would be good to bust this myth, we just need to get some genuine team frames.

[@nu_Ken99]

Could be an isolated incident? These frames are made by hand one at a time

[@st939]

Ignorance is bliss, ALL carbon frames are hand-made (one at a time).

[@Sills71]

I am not sure what to conclude from this video... this is a 16 year old bike, should I conclude that today's Colnago would be the same? I would think that Colnago has evolved their processes like the rest of the industry so I don't think that is a good conclusion. (also it is unfair to compare this frame to a newer one of any make, open a Trek or Specialized of that era and I bet it looks the same or worse) The bike obviously was well used (probably abused to some degree) and never broke, does it follow that Colnago made poor product? I can't really say conclude that, 16 years is a good life for a carbon bike. I love the look inside the frame but I don't see what, if any conclusions can be drawn from this video. Also, although Time fared well in Luther's latest examination, their a previous Time that did not look so hot.

[@LuescherTeknik]

One conclusion is that there is product variability regardless of the brand, the purchase cost and the claims made.

[@cccpkingu]

If you want to buy any 16 year old bike, don't go carbon. Both because they don't last, most of it was nondescript china-ware even then, and a 16 year old Carbon bike is no good no matter who made it.

[@Sills71]

@@LuescherTeknik Are there variations within current production? (would you expect to see another Colnago of the same model and year look the same?)

[@totalcycling]

That frame looks like it was repainted and not by Colnago. In hindsight don't you think the cracks were superficial and a usable frame was destroyed? The voids look small compared to the overall thickness of the lugs and they were apparently there through 15 years of use without any issue. I could not see any cracks on the inside. There is going to be some flex in any carbon frame and if someone has repainted the frame in a thick brittle white paint which is less elastic than the frame then that paint is going to crack. You also (unfairly) picked imaginary faults with the bottom bracket. One was due to over zealous (extremely incompetent) mechanics trying to turn the bb the wrong way. Hardly a problem with the frame is it? The other was that if someone installed a titanium bb cup without anti seize they might experience galling. Short of someone making a one off titanium bottom bracket cup (at huge expense) this is also a non issue. I can't think of ever seeing a titanium bottom bracket cup from Shimano, Campagnolo SRAM or FSA. You mentioned that fiber glass was used in the dropout. I don't believe this was to enhance the bond, but rather to eliminate the chance of Galvanic corrosion. The bb insert used in that frame was more expensive to produce that most other complete frames.

[@LuescherTeknik]

The frame was repainted by the largest specialist bike painter in Australia. The seat stay junction was disbonded and there were cracks due to flaws in other areas of the frame. If the BB junction on a carbon frame is less stiff than white paint you are in serious trouble. The comments on the BB shell were to highlight some of the problems we have seen over the years with threaded shells. YMMV.

[@totalcycling]

I have never seen a Colnago C50 or C40 with a ripped out bb but I’ll take your word for it. In the past month I’ve had 6 different customers come into my shop where they threaded the wrong pedal into the wrong crank. Perhaps I’ll do a video criticising all the crank and pedal manufacturers for making this too complicated. This frame was repainted, and multiple cracks appeared in the paint. I believe the most likely reason for this is due to a paint system failure rather than the frame letting go in all those different places simultaneously. The frame has clearly be well used for 15 years, suffered at least one major impact and been repainted. You are correct in saying It’s not Colnago’s finest work. It’s not even his work.

[@1234markrhino]

Wow! Raoul, can u confirm this is a genuine Colnago? And if so, what year? Thanks. Another great vid.

[@edwinf9999]

Was that a Fakenago? C650 not straight on tube.

[@FeintMotion]

There are no fake lugged frames. If you see them they're a monocoque with "lugs" applied to them after curing and then comolded in a secondary process.

[@LuescherTeknik]

No, it had a custom paint job some time ago.

[@FeintMotion]

@m is your hed broken m8 you can see the tube to lug interfaces lmao

[@FeintMotion]

@m In the video you're commenting on. Post timestamps of the lugs not being lugs lmao

[@FeintMotion]

@m Gonna need you to answer if your hed or brokin or not because what you posted is the opposite of what things are lol

[@matteo.ceriotti]

"They end up with a bigger piece of pipe" 😂

[@ThePaulKat]

Did I miss something here? Was this classic Colnago cut up because a dubious white respray(white paint requires to be thick due to poor opacity) began to crack ? If this was a poor effort from Colnago it was still structurally sound at 15yrs and counting (a very early C50 due to the titanium bb), that is good a testimony to the construction, it looks like it was over engineered to counter the manufacturing issues/limitations. From this I take a good Colnago to last indefinitely as this example may have if it wasn’t cut up in its relative prime, all because the paint was lacking in elasticity.

[@LuescherTeknik]

Yes, you missed the fact that the seat stay had disbonded and the lugs had cracked due to manufacturing flaws.

[@fieldlab4]

"Pros and cons, cons being this frame."

[@durianriders]

Con was the guy who layed up the carbon so it resembled Pumicestone.

[@l.d.t.6327]

7:00 are you seriously argumenting that threaded BB are bad, because mechanics are too stupid not to be able to measure a 70mm BB or just fail to understand Colnago's are more often than not ITA or don't use anti-seize? That's the same reasoning as saying pressfit is bad because some frame manufacturers cannot get the tolerances right.

[@LuescherTeknik]

No, I am not argumenting, I am merely commenting on what I have seen over the years. The point is that operator error can damage all bottom bracket types.

[@l.d.t.6327]

@@LuescherTeknik In the end, you could say that certain designs that are confusing to mechanics, or are hard to manufacture, are bad designs. But principally, I feel that some designs easily get critique because the average human fails to understand how to handle / maintain / ... a certain design. This could apply to both threaded BB's in terms of how to mount the BB and maintain them, and press-fit and how to manufacture them within the right tolerances. So for me, no design flaws.

[@cccpkingu]

No it isn't. You can avoid being stupid. It is a lot harder to correct mistakes that are already there, and more work. Avoiding all the plethora of bike-makers that have shitty pressfit is a science, whereas turning threads the right way and using threadlocking is common sense.

[@l.d.t.6327]

@@cccpkingu Personally I am very much in favour of threaded (I have both pressfit and threaded fames). I only used pressfit as I know Luescher and Hambini like the concept from an engineering point of view, and I only wanted to illustrate how flawed it is to argument that threaded has disadvantages, while those disadvantages are human errors, rather than design errors, the same way that most pressfit errors are caused by manufacturers that could make it work better, but chose not to because they aren't very capable or because better tolerances and better QC eats up their profit.

[@bonzobanana1]

In summary overpriced death-trap for the brand snobs.

[@durianriders]

Same as all the exy frames

[@danmartinez9497]

I'll stick to my Chinese knock-off which come with a 5 year warranty.

[@carlhulston7157]

Just bought an old C50 frameset.... hope it was put together a little better than this one 🙄

[@kieron88ward]

Don't worry they are pretty tough. A number of voids, delaminations etc and it still lasted 15+ years.

[@cccpkingu]

Any paintcracks on there?

[@carlhulston7157]

@@cccpkingu a couple of very small ones under the down tube/ head tube (at the lug)

[@tommyfreckmann6857]

​@carlhulston7157 how's she holding up these days?

[@fastestmilkman3840]

if you are going to be spending this kind of money, you might as well get a custom steel or even carbon frame!

[@danfuerthgillis4483]

Have 2 Savadeck bikes with the T800 Toray Japanese fibers. There is just no contest vs the mid range bikes. Basically you are not paying for the frame anymore it's really the groupset that is the biggest scam in Carbon bikes. Not 1 of these frames ( which mostly are built by Giant as the OEM) should ever top $1500. The groupsets is where they make the money on these bikes, they are massively over inflated.

[@derosa1989]

it's interesting that these pre-manufactured lugs are so poorly compacted. This process should be better controlled, it's not like they are making a monocoque all at once here. The supplier of the lugs should be not be proud of this work. I had a C40 a couple years older than this C50, and i also thought the chainstay thing was a gimmick and eventually sold the bike. The colnago geo on smaller frames is not great, which ultimately turned me towards a custom frame, and eventually to my Parlee that i've been riding for 10 years now, that looks not unlike LT's own bike.

[@10016]

The cracks could also be bad repaint prep. That’s not the original paint. Just saying.

[@LuescherTeknik]

When the seat stay lug is disbonded and moves in the frame, that is a lot more than paint prep. Just saying ;)

[@leehyson9831]

This C50 must have been used and abused to end up in this poor state. I've owned a 2003 b-stay/HP C40 from new its its still 100% faultless.

[@MerlinMan1579]

Very poor attention to detail on behalf of the builder. I would not buy a Colnago with my hard earned after this enlightenment.....thankyou.

[@theadventurebiker]

How about not buying any carbon bike?

[@cccpkingu]

No Colnago builder is engaged in any of this. You can buy Chinese carbon bikes where the difference is the spray from most anyone. The difference is the markup.

[@17cream]

Colnago don’t seem to be made like they used to be. Who makes Colnago in the Far East now?

[@RyonBeachner]

For the C64, all the tubes are made at Giant, with final assembly and bonding at Colnago in italy. For the other models, V3RS, etc I would imagine are made by either Giant, Quest or Merida.

[@RyonBeachner]

m Oh, I don’t know it 100%, it’s just something I’ve been told by a number of people that work in the bike industry, and I’ve never heard anyone disagree or have any other name brought up as to who else it may be. I do however know with 100% certainty that the tubes are produced in Asia outside of Colnago, as they had a press release from years ago that said as much.

[@theadventurebiker]

@@RyonBeachner Carbon bikes are lighter, stiffer, stronger, more compliant, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's just something I've been told by a number of people that work in the bike industry [ie. marketing folk etc]. Bullshit.

[@RyonBeachner]

The Adventure Biker Please, show me on the doll where the bike industry touched you. It’s going to be okay.

[@napskate]

@@RyonBeachner lol

[@thegibbonisreal]

21st century materials built with 20th century techniques.

[@andymci5981]

I idolised Colnago...until watching this horror story!! Would it be fair to say however that early Carbon bikes of this era, from the "high end" brands, are all pretty much the same for crap build quality? The more i watch your videos the more im deciding on alu/steel for my next bike. This particular Colnago was a death trap....how many other carbon bikes out there are ready to 'snap'?

[@cgrigio9182]

No, it’s done 15 years and been in at least one crash according to Raoul. It’s had a lot of hard use and not failed, now it’s time for it to be retired. That’s all.

[@evelasq1]

Looks like that a titanium or an aluminum or a steel frame bike would last longer than a carbon frame bike.

[@LuescherTeknik]

Depends, steel can rust, titanium often cracks at the welds and aluminium fatigues. Well made carbon can last a long time.

[@drayzen9678]

omg, what's with all these idiotic comments talking about it being a fake? Stop and bloody think for a second.. 🤦‍♂️

[@drayzen9678]

@m Sure it's easy, but what's the point when we already know it can't be a fake.. 🤷‍♂️

[@drayzen9678]

@m oh, ffs. Seriously? Do you honestly think that there were Chinese copies of Colnagos being made 15 years ago? 🤦‍♂️

[@drayzen9678]

@m Stop being pedantic.

[@cccpkingu]

There are essentially a lot of fakes coming out of Colnago. Only the top model carbon model is made in Italy. The rest is your standard fare Chinesium.

[@drayzen9678]

@@cccpkingu So you're saying Colnago are making their own fakes. Interesting theory.. 😄

[@NewEnglandDirtRoadie]

in the 80s colnago would send their worst product to the US.

[@milovacc1195]

buy composite Colnago only if it is built in Taiwan ! italian Built Colnagos should be made of steel tubes ..... usually columbus....

[@durianriders]

Colnago made in china today. ALL the frames at this year's TDF made in China. Even the Giants. Assembled in Tawian.

[@cccpkingu]

@@durianriders Colnago is mostly sold to Chimera Investments LLC. The last carbon bike they made themselves was the C60. Time makes the best carbon frames, in France.

[@georgehascancer6016]

----------> Do this on a C60!!!!!

[@LuescherTeknik]

It's coming, stay tuned.

[@doxydoxdelamanca9902]

That's the issue with carbon, whether is made by Colnago (or whoever makes the frame for them) or whatever other top company. In time, they just don't hold the same a steel, ti or alum would. Yes, I am aware that any frameset, even Ti, etc., can crack and so on, but I feel carbon's life is prone to be short-lived.

[@Noname-ek8jc]

I fell asleep long before the end

[@durianriders]

Must be fake. Mega mark up bike brands would not cut corners like this. You get what you pay for. I've never seen a problem with S-Works bikes or any exy stupidly priced items. I think this is a Reid with colnago stickers.

[@WowRixter]

It's a disgrace that frames that expensive can just 'wear out' without damage caused by an accident

[@abccba3903]

I’ve had a lot of carbon frames, everyone has broken. They last between 6 - 12 months. I’ve had several surgeries to pin & wire bones and muscles back together as a result of sudden fork failures. EVERYONE, NEVER BUY A CARBON BICYCLE RRAME, THE INDUSTRY IS NOT CAPABLE OF MANUFACTURING A SAFE ITEM FOR PUBLIC USE. Pro teams often use their frames just for one race, we don’t have that luxury., don’t take the risk. A lot of negative feedback from people that don’t actually have my experience! I was just letting people know they should think twice before taking an expensive risk. Not to be too exhaustive in my reply, and I’m sure the pro Taiwan carbon bike industry fans won’t except a single word anyway, but here goes. Bike breakage history, Corima Viper 1 - cracks evident in joints after 1 month, replaced under warranty. Corima Viper 2 - replacement for above, both fork blades broke away from crown during downhill descent, which Garmin showed as 74km/hr, resulting in mentioned hospital injuries. In short many shattered bones, disconnected muscles and facial injuries. To support this I sued the importer and won my case. Raceline (model forgotten) - 5months drive side chain stay broken away from bb. Orbea (aeromax I think) - 8 months carbon seat stays separated from seat tube connection. Look 418SL - 6 months cracks in many joints mine and also a friend who bought same frame at the same time both replaced under warranty. Look 585 - replacement for above, sold after 1 month as I could no longer ride carbon without fear of it failing and causing me more injuries or costs. So to all the experts - Get Fucked,

[@glennoc8585]

With all respect i think you must using your bikes as stunt vehicles or just the most unlucky cyclist in history. Professionals don't ride a bike for one race they aren't sloshing in cash and most pay for the bikes albeit at discounted rates. Touve had a lit if carbon but surely you'd stop after two successive failures.

[@jaro6985]

Give some model numbers, where it failed on the fork, what you were doing..

[@glennoc8585]

@@jaro6985 He's a troll working in a bespoke titanium fork business probably. I've never met anybody that has a fork fail unless theyve crashed or applied poor head tube fitting of stems.

[@sodalitia]

How many carbon frames i a lot of? I would guess more than 3? Did you brake all of them? So they lasted 6 - 12 months? You had several surgeries due to fork failures? Lets sum up: You ride a carbon bike. Fork brakes. You have a surgery. 6 - 12 months after the surgery you jump on the carbon bike again to qualify for the next surgery. Rinse and repeat. At least 3 times. You are an obvious idiot. Or a liar.

[@drayzen9678]

Saying that Pro's only use their bikes for one race is an urban myth. I'm sure if they had a heavy crash on its first ride it would be replaced, though the odds of that happening would make it a very rare occasion. I've known of custom layups being done for specific riders, e.g. sprinters that need more rigidity etc., though other than that it's all the same product as retail.

[@Mxrobius]

Colnago, explain yourself!

[@glennoc8585]

No chance they don't care because that money from then has already bought executives their Ligurian villas and pensions. Today and tomorrow is the only bsd press they'll take issue with.

[@glennoc8585]

@R. Guardia Even.salaries of 500,000 for CEO would be possible. Cost of living back then.pre Euro was quite cheap.in Italy they lived well.that was the heyday of Italian frames.

[@glennoc8585]

@R. Guardia looking atvtheir frame costs the boss could sell 250 frames and make 500000. The markup us huge.

[@glennoc8585]

@R. Guardia 3 at most but of course the director is getting the cream. If they churn out only 30000 frames a year at $1000 to make including overheads they make a minimum of $1000 wholesale to shops $2000 on the top frame and fork. Easily 300-500k usd to the boss. They wouldn't be in it for less

[@UnGatoEnojado]

Min: 5:00 whta a piece of trash!

[@sergio895]

Holy shit. What a mess.

[@worldofameiso5491]

I think Colnago should have stuck with steel frames...

[@888899999888]

I'd rather buy colnago replica off aliexpress.

[@glennoc8585]

Why? Arent you just saying im pretending to ride what would be am overpriced attempt at romance.

[@kieron88ward]

Because you believe the quality control of a knock off would be better than the quality control of a reputable company? With a knock off you have no idea what you are getting, it could be made of fibreglass.

[@888899999888]

@@kieron88ward but weve seen we don't know what we're getting buyingthose bikes and stuff like cêrvëĺõ s5 either. That's the fact everyone always forgets to point out.

[@kieron88ward]

@@888899999888 There is a world of difference between a reputable company that makes a frame with 'acceptable' manufacturing flaws to a company that makes a knock off. Nothing is ever made perfect but the former has a reputation to maintain and even if they have to do a recall they will replace it. Te later has no interest in reputation (because they've just stollen someone else's name and rep) and won't care if you just become a stain on the tarmack. There are good Chinese frames and then their are counterfeit frames they are not the same thing.

[@888899999888]

@@kieron88ward acceptable manufacturing flaws like S5 fork or this utter shit. Ok.

[@chrisbowman2030]

Raoul: "not ideal" Hambini: "cu**ish shite fuckwhatism"

[@pablogimeno464]

Just to name a few wins of the c50 frame design, the 08 cyclocross worlds, the 04 world championships with Oscar Freire, 04 Milan san remo, 02 liege Bastogne liege, If this is not Ernesto´s finest work then imagine how it is his finest. You should be more respectful and responsible on your language.

[@karlwalters3763]

So? The frames that those victories came from could've fallen to pieces straight after the fact. It's been known for a long time in the bike industry that Colnago was more name than substance and therefore probably doesn't deserve the "respectful and responsible language" you're banging on about.

[@pablogimeno464]

Karl Walters , 62 world championships won without substance...

[@karlwalters3763]

@@pablogimeno464 Are you are saying we should turn a blind eye to what we've seen on this vid? This was a $4000+ frame when it came out.

[@LuescherTeknik]

Maybe you should listen to what I actually said, this particular frame was not his finest and did not win all of the races you listed, others may be better, this one is a lemon.

[@slowerandolder]

And you believe Eddy took the Hour on a Windsor?

[@vajrakilaya]

LOL Colnago fanboys can't accept the fact that they're paying premium money for low quality crap.

[@richardgallant7378]

junk

[@Incaensio]

low quality overpriced frame

[@justsayin3600]

After looking at the many frames that have delamination, I wonder if a complete frame wrap, something like Invis would be beneficial? I have it on my aluminium bike to keep it from getting scratched and it holds up really well. What do you think Raoul?

[@80robs92]

Any frame wears out regardless of the material. There have been studies that have shown that first aluminium bikes wear out, then steel and last carbon. My experience is, a stiff aluminium frame after 5 years it is just wobbly.

[@justsayin3600]

@@80robs92 I was thinking about frame protection. I have Invis, it's 12mil thick. This is custom cut where very little, except for the seams are exposed. I have it on my fork and crank as well. I've had some impact to the frame and it's not even scratched. I'm wondering if this kind of frame protection would absorb impacts that would cause delamination on a carbon frame. I would think so but I can't say for certain.