Comanche Bloodshed | The 1864 SLAUGHTER of Elm Creek

What would it have been like to be with the Comanche on raid? follow the attack in 1864 as a small settlement made vulnerable by the Civil War is descended upon by a large Comanche War Party looking for revenge, resources, and glory.
The Comanche were a warring culture. Raids were an important part of custom and who they were. For centuries young warriors seeking blood rites devastated other Native American tribes as they conquered the plains. Later they attacked the people of New Spain and later Mexico. They caused havoc for Texas and formed a literal barrier to expansion on the plains. Everyone within a few hundred miles of Comancheria was always in danger under the Comanche Moon.
However, a variety of factors contributed to a drop off in Comanche power in the 1850s. Disease, the aggressive nature of the Texas government, and U.S. military action led to a frontier that was fast becoming more pacified. But when the Civil War started, the protection for settlers on the frontier left with the men for war and an outbreak of raids began again against Texas. This is the story of the largest recorded raid during the time period, told from the perspective of the raiders. The Slaughter of Elm Creek in 1864.
This story is different from many others that have been on this channel. One of the difficulties when studying history is sources. This is particularly difficult when studying the history of the Comanche as they didn’t write their history. Because of that, what is written is done from the lens of the Europeans who interacted with them and most of the stories on this channel are done in that way. But this one is different. The sources provide enough information on the events that the rest can be filled in with Comanche custom. As a society that was bound by custom and medicine, we can fairly infer what took place, even in cases where we don’t see the exact events unfold. So this story serves two purposes. We see a Comanche raid from the perspective of the raiders but also see how the culture and custom of the Comanche played out in the attacks.
RESOURCES
Charles Goodnight-Cowman & Plainsman, by J. Evetts Haley (Book)
Elm Creek Raid by Michael Trevis
www.forttours.com/pages/elmcr...
**This resource is a great place to read up on Elm Creek. It includes a collection of sources and letters**
Empire of the Summer Moon by S.C. Gywnne (Book)
Frontier Defense in the Civil War, by David Paul Smith (Book)
Horrific Indian Raid in Young County (Primary Source Letter From Henry Williams)
www.frontiertimesmagazine.com...
Indian Depredations in Texas by J.W. Wilbarger (Book)
The Comanches: A History of a People by T.R. Fehrenbach (Book)

[@rossburney8713]

Any day that Dates and Dead Guys uploads is a good day. Love the channel and keep up the good work. I will be ready for the next one!

[@datesanddeadguys]

I appreciate that. Thank you.

[@ibestrokin]

Facts! This episode dropped early in the day here in Cali and was good to have something to listen to during yardwork.

[@datesanddeadguys]

@ibestrokin I really appreciate it. Hope the episodes are long enough to keep you entertained while you are doing the work.

[@michaelbrown5050]

Facts 💯

[@dougearnest7590]

Nowadays that would be known as the Mostly Peaceful Protest at Elm Creek.

[@rayerscarpensael2300]

As a white european I identify with the comanches fighting for their tribal homelands. Lucky were they allowed to fight byntheir medecine men and squaws while we sit by idle while our african settlers take our goods lands and women.

[@mr.newmanthadreamer8434]

You ain’t funny

[@dougearnest7590]

@@mr.newmanthadreamer8434 - I am funny, but in this case I was going for sarcasm.

[@mr.newmanthadreamer8434]

I wonder what the Comanche would have to say from their own perspective

[@GreasyBeasty]

​@@dougearnest7590you are hilarious and that joke was very apt.

[@tomjones8235]

During the Civil War, the the settlers in Minnesota had the same problem that the Texans had. At the time of the Great Sioux Uprising of 1862, the Sioux noticed that a lot of young men were missing. There were multiple reasons for the uprising, but one was the (mistaken) belief that the Sioux would win because there weren't enough men remaining to successfully defend the settlements.

[@JaMeshuggah]

Another banger. Imagine fighting to within an inch of your life and saying goodbye to everyone around you just to have the attack end.

[@datesanddeadguys]

It's cinematic. The kind of thing that would feel too lucky if it happened to someone in a movie. Custom for the Comanche was real. They believed they were protected by their medicine. Once it was obvious it failed, it was time to go.

[@Texasbluestunes]

We just might witness this for ourselves in the near future.. this is a crazy world and it will be very interesting to say the least.

[@zakkziegler111]

It still boggles my mind to think how we're still only barely removed from a point in time where westward expansion was almost impossible due to the Comanche. It was such a short time ago. And yet I hear people sometimes talk about the 80's like it was a millenia ago, lol. My Grandmother's Grandfather was settled in Texas during this period and used to tell her about the constant fear of potential raids from tribes. Absolutely wild. Great stuff as usual, man.

[@Texasbluestunes]

I come from those same people as my 5th great grandparents were the DeWitts of the DeWitt colony and founders of Gonzales. Green DeWitt made successful treaties with the Tonkawa and Lipan Apache, but the Comanche would never go for it.

[@zakkziegler111]

@@Texasbluestunes Yeah, treaties with the Comanche were notoriously difficult and almost always when they did happen, subject to change at the drop of a hat. To call said treaties "fragile" would be an understatement.

[@fireborn9065]

Love the fair handed information in these stories. Having grown up in Ute territory and learning a lot about Anasazi throughout my childhood, I really appreciate learning about other Native American people in this fashion. I recommend the channel every chance I get. 👍

[@dariusbaja21]

So satisfying to see the channel constantly grow . U deserve this 💪

[@datesanddeadguys]

Thank you. Seeing people come back to watch more is encouraging.

[@sarahkatepeterson1]

You’re doing a great job!

[@tudyk21]

"Yo, man. Check out my poo-hah. It's great!" Little Buffalo.

[@datesanddeadguys]

If the story was written for a comedy movie that is about how it went down.

[@Serjo777]

Love it, lol. You sure have great poo-hah for funny comments :D

[@Ulfnarr]

awesome! straight historical facts, no embellishments, right to the point. this is bloody good work!

[@datesanddeadguys]

Thank you. I am happy you like the style.

[@stamm2366]

I thank you very much for your work. DeinStamm Germany. Your Channel is so importand because we lost our culture and you make it possible to lern it back from other tibes. thank you very much. DeinStamm

[@leo-mf22]

Gotta love this Comanche spree from Dates and Dead Guys! Keep it up! 👍🏻

[@datesanddeadguys]

I have at least two more before I move on to another topic. Next one, hopefully three weeks from now, will be on Jack Hays, the Colt Revolver, and the Battle of Walker’s Creek. Then I want to do another on the final days of the tribe (Adobe Walls II, the death of the Buffalo, and Paulo Duro Canyon). Might get distracted and do one or two more but that is what I have in mind.

[@leo-mf22]

@@datesanddeadguys Well, we are all looking forward to that, and can't wait! Really looking forward to the Colt Revolver episode, bet it will be so cool! I know I'm not the only one who's a huge fan of the Wild West history videos you make!

[@chrissycee90]

Another smashing video, one of the greatest storytellers on KZbin. Keep 'em coming 😂

[@datesanddeadguys]

Thanks for watching.

[@Hisdudeness799]

Can’t we all just get along?😂

[@datesanddeadguys]

It seems we cannot.

[@whaguitars]

Love your videos keep up the great work!

[@datesanddeadguys]

Thank you for watching.

[@andrewmaccallum2367]

Excellent as always 👏👏👏

[@troyelliott1063]

Comanche raids would have been total nightmare fuel. These stories are enthralling!

[@gholzworth]

Between Dates and Dead Guys and Dark Docs, these are the best history channels on KZbin.

[@datesanddeadguys]

I haven’t heard of darkdocs. I’ll have to check them out. They have a video you would recommend?

[@gholzworth]

@@datesanddeadguys Basically all of them. The guy that does those, like you, beautifully merges images with narrative to tell a wonderfully engaging story. He also has other "Dark"-named channels that focus on air, sea, special ops, etc. This one is especially interesting: "The Secret Soldiers the US Was Afraid to Send to War".

[@carleto9597]

Thanks for the update of the Comanche raids, you always do a great job of history on all dates & dead guys video's too, thanks again.

[@danielcombs3048]

Excellent episode, I truly appreciate your technique of deliberating on these stories. And learning of these obscure tales about native and pioneer skirmishes. It seems that the native Americans are very resolute on how they conduct there cultural practices. And stay true to there heritage. Much abliged for the ammunition 🐎🏜️

[@THENERDCAVE-ql2qs]

So happy to see a new vid! Always listen to these at work

[@johnpittsii7524]

Thanks for the video

[@dougdukes1039]

Thanks for listing references.

[@datesanddeadguys]

I made notes of it but the two to check out are the compilation from Fort Tours and the Henry Williams letter. Both are a lot of fun.

[@Sam-kn2mm]

This is probably my favorite youtube channel period. As of right now iveseen every video except the one right before this one, Ill go watch it right now.

[@martiforse4764]

Your content and style is really good. Im happy to see you growing. Keep up the good work!

[@michaelmartin7425]

For what purpose did the Comanche destroy everything they didn't loot? Was this strictly tactical to deny the enemy resources? Or was there an additional cultural aspect to it?

[@datesanddeadguys]

Great question. There are a couple reasons. Denial of resources to an enemy is an obvious one but there is a terror aspect of it too. There are many accounts of white people held up in fortified locations and having to watch the destruction from the safety of their walls. Additionally there is a symbolic element. The Comanche believed the afterlife was as things were in this world. So they would often mutilate their dead and destroy their belongings to deny them those things for eternity. Many Native American cultures, the Comanche included, have languages where their tribal name just means “people.” They were “the people” and everyone outside their culture group was something different.

[@michaelmartin7425]

@@datesanddeadguys Thank you for the reply. I'm really enjoying your channel.

[@tomjones8235]

@@datesanddeadguys Not only did most tribes call themselves "the people," but their names for other groups that they didn't like were typically insults, kind of like the pejoratives in English for just about any ethnic group.

[@datesanddeadguys]

Another fun piece there is that a lot of the time the names we use for tribes comes from those names from other tribes. Comanche is adapted from the Ute word for them. It means something to the effect of “Those who are against me all the time.” Basically their name for them was enemy. The same is true for the Apache. It comes from the Zuni and means enemy.

[@tomjones8235]

@@datesanddeadguys Similarly, Sioux essentially means “snake” or “enemy.” It is what the Chippewa called the Sioux. The Sioux prefer to call themselves Dakota or Lakota.

[@Tiogadon]

Great video! I really enjoy all your posts. Thank you!!

[@Khorinis139andLennox-dd2yc]

Great Video! Thank you

[@aatosvuorms7303]

Thank you for this content 🔥

[@michaelmccaffety3131]

Thank you for another great video, all of your hard work is appreciated!

[@milkyISO]

Been obsessed with the west since I was kid living back in Brazil, so I really appreciate channels like this. Brother, if I could recommend. When you can, please purchase a pro microphone like the Shure SM7B. You have a great voice and I feel a pro mic would make your stories even more immersive. Thanks for putting up great content, sir! Keep it up!

[@Thecathunter]

Great video. Can't wait to see the next one. Great work, thanks and keep them coming.

[@anotheryoutubechannel4809]

Love your videos. Thank you!

[@mfischer2948]

Good story. I never heard of "Little Buffalo," the leader of the raid. The unique pictures and illustrations help tell the story of the raid. Except for the weak drawing of the Colt revolver. The War of Northern Aggression affected many lives. Enjoyed the video, good job.

[@tomjones8235]

The War of Northern Aggression. That would be the war that was started by Southerners so they could keep their slaves. How did that work out for them?

[@simonward-horner7605]

Another good one. Thanks!

[@rsc8889]

Great content!!

[@BrionK]

Would love to see a video about raids in the 1950s and the Broncos. ❤️ this channel, damn good work, brother!

[@speakupriseup4549]

Another stellar video, great work as ever.

[@datesanddeadguys]

Thanks for watching. I am happy you enjoyed it.

[@ewingshannon]

I love this channel. Listen to it every night!

[@58landman]

I'm a huge fan of the study of early Texas history and of the period immediately after the Civil War until the ultimate subjugation of the wild tribes. Yours is an excellent channel and one of my favorites.

[@tylerkee9150]

Love your work, could you do one on kings Phillips war? With respect for tribes out west There isn’t enough attention on tribes over here on the east coast. This was the bloodiest war on American soil. More people died in that war than every world war. Would be greatly appreciated, or even the myth of thanksgiving that is about us Wampanoag people. I really like your storytelling style

[@AJHughes-hk5tt]

Luv this channel

[@datesanddeadguys]

Thanks for watching.

[@yallhatenatediggity3838]

Keep on keep on, should be good to listen to I’m pulling weeds in the garden

[@pattysoucie24]

Awesome video !

[@DBoone123]

Good stuff yo, I shared with a friend too

[@user-ze3je8xx7r]

You made my day , thank you 🙏 / Peter from sweden

[@ray-garl]

Dates and dead guys dropped 9 hours ago!!! What have i been doing with my life!

[@dannyd8625]

I'm glad there's finally a historian that doesn't just say the evil White man brutalized the poor Indians in every video. I get with war, there's bad things on both sides. I'm just tired of hearing/reading about it being 100% all one sided. I'm not a historian, and I have nothing to back this up other than opinion- but I doubt that the Whites were more brutal than some of these Indian tribes.

[@Tepaneca]

How dare a bunch of invaders be seen as bad guys lmao

[@zehaha111]

Thank you for the video. As always, very interesting information. In this raid though, the Comanche don't strike me as impressive. For several hundred mounted warriors to only raid like three houses and kill/capture two dozen mostly scared and unorganized enemies would be the laughing stock in many other warrior cultures around the world.

[@jackm2293]

Another great video. Thank you. I just finished reading 21 Months a captive. I would like to quote from Rachel Plummer's narrative. The language really struck me. This part is from just after her horrifying discerption of being captured ... : "I now ask you my Christian reader, to pause, you who are living secure for danger. Who have been raised in land bosting of Christian philanthropy. I say I now ask you to form some idea of my feelings for such dreadful savage yelling. Enough to terrify the bravest hearts. Bleeding and welting in my blood, and far worst to think of my little darling prat, will this scenes ever be effaced from my memory. Not until my spirit is called to leave this tenement of clay and my God grant me a heart to pray for them for they no not what they do." its a short book and well worth reading. ❤🙏

[@sailoryan]

Great presentation.

[@theone6two3]

Love the content man , I wish they taught all this in school

[@GassersGhost]

Commenting just in case it does improve your algorithm. I enjoy a good story.

[@steventhorson4487]

We support the Texans!! We will defend our families!!❤❤❤❤

[@Texasbluestunes]

I do believe the Comanche learned from the Raid of 1840 to get back to safety much faster, and not be bogged down with spoils.

[@David65702]

I hate it but good work, thank you sir.

[@LindaGuy-yg6ju]

Growed up with cowboys an Indians on TV. Being young I could always pass for Indian or Mexican. What a treat when I discovered that. My daughter can go so far as to pass as Asian. It's awful when someone walks up to you an you cannot speak their language.My self I am from Wales with some Swiss crazy as it sounds but my looks have been at times nice an at some time I experienced racist rants. Overall it's been a real learning experience.

[@TheMNBlackBear]

👍👍

[@tomtaylor6163]

I live in the Comancheria. Things change slowly here

[@windtalker8778]

Can you make these into podcasts so I can work and listen to them.

[@carolclark5776]

Ah, I would lawyer up and get some money from Jeep and back pay. The car company must have thought Comanche was so bad ass in their raids they named a jeep after them, so let them pay, even with knowing what went on in raids still named vehicles after them.

[@69JONESYrugbyCHAPELHILL]

Poohaa!.........?

[@davec4224]

I wonder what happened to those captives

[@datesanddeadguys]

Funny you should bring that up. In most cases we wouldn’t know but in this one we do and it is fascinating. Worth a video in its own right. When the raid started many of the men they would typically be there were out of town (soldiers, business, hunting). One of them was a black man named Britt Johnson. Sources disagree a bit whether he was a slave or if he was free. Regardless, his wife was among those that was captured. He communicated with the bands of Comanche who had made deals with the US government and was able to track down 5 or 6 of the captives and by them back for ransom. He went out into Comanche territory several times to do this. Tragically, about ten years later he was killed in another Indian raid.

[@Warhistoryculture]

Please please please do Ojibwe vs cree

[@brycepardoe658]

This is very interesting. The men of my people (Māori) wanted to kill people. They had to be held back from killing not shamed into doing it. I wonder if the Comanche having a large population of adoptees was why this was so as opposed to my people who overwhelmingly were native born.

[@ricardopatterson3897]

britt johnson

[@datesanddeadguys]

Someone knows the story. I went back and forth for a while on how I wanted to tell this story. My goal was to teach about custom and also tell it from the perspective of the Comanche. Problem is that the Comanche didn’t write their history so It’s hard to do. I even recorded a post-script where I talk about the aftermath and Britt Johnson going to the Comanche and rescuing captives but I cut it because it didn’t fit the goals I had for the video. That guy was awesome though.

[@ricardopatterson3897]

@@datesanddeadguys oh it’s ok 😂 I just recognized the elm creek raid I’m from Texas

[@jackm2293]

@@datesanddeadguys James W. Parker starving, frost bitten and alone most the time searching for his kin take by raiders... That guy was awesome too.

[@David-ct1rd]

Britt's wife and kids were taken from my family ranch.

[@ricardopatterson3897]

@@David-ct1rd really??

[@David-ct1rd]

I am Charlotte Elizabeth Durkin's 2nd great grandson. She was abducted, and most of the rest of the family was wiped out.

[@alecbowman4127]

After binging hours of historical content, it seems the only people who are worse than the Comanche would be the Japanese. But they are pretty close when it comes to brutality. The Vikings are pretty close too.

[@carolclark5776]

Ses like they would get it,

[@carolclark5776]

Gatling gun

[@The_ZeroLine]

In family, this is still required to become/be recognized as a man. BTW, you and HOKC both seemed to come on the scene at the same time covering very similar stories. Weird.

[@anotheryoutubechannel4809]

4:08 kinda like the bloods, crips, MS13 and other terrorist gangs. Ok then.

[@TOm-hr2mb]

European diseases were a game changer.

[@mojrimibnharb4584]

I only wish they had been able to keep it up another couple decades.

[@russellbates2125]

Best channel on KZbin

[@johnmatthews4717]

They wonder why they wrre called savages

[@patrickporter1864]

Clash of cultures. It was their land and they fought for it. But we're the texas rangers not equally bloodthirsty.

[@johnmatthews4717]

@@patrickporter1864 it wasn't their land. they took it and held it til they lost. Rangers were brutal, almost as bad as the savages.

[@Tepaneca]

Imagine calling someone a savage for defending their home💀 sometimes I think what’s going on today is karma

[@johnmatthews4717]

@@Tepaneca Hey dumb dumb, wiping out children, torturing people for fun, burning people alive.. that doesn't come off as savagery to you, then you got some issues. And what karma, as your idiotic self phrased it, is going on today? Use your words:.

[@wilsonshahzeb2]

For the algorithm 🫡