COMEBACK! Subaru Limp-Home P2138

[@DavidPruitt]

You can take those wiper motors apart pretty easily. I've cleaned a few of them up over the years, not too hard and keeps it happy for a long time.

[@mruribe73]

I have 2005 Subaru Outback with a turbo and this video helped me figure out what my subi had. Thank you for the info that resolved my issue. Hope to see more videos of subis in the future

[@emjoneshouseDIY]

I'm reading some confusion in a few peoples comments so I thought I would explain it.. Anything to do with throttle, brakes, or steering in a modern vehicle has electrical redundancies built into the system. The logic behind going into a limp mode is safety. If both sensors looking at the same thing(pedal position) but aren't reporting the same thing neither input can be trusted.

[@tobias9823]

After watching your videos on this Subaru, I'm pretty sure it's exactly what's wrong with mine. Similar weather conditions and warm up times as your customer when the limo mode is initiated. Thanks for all the detail you put into your description of the customers issue, and all your thought patterns diagnosing. I'm throwing the 2138 code. Twice into limp mode. Going to grab a oem pedal assembly tomorrow. Confident my problem will be solved. Thanks again!

[@trishametchikoff7485]

Dealing with this same code P2138 on my 2005 Outback LL Bean (176,000 miles). Check engine light came on with the blinking cruise control and it was definitely in limp mode and seemed to be almost like the throttle was getting stuck so I have to quickly turn off the car. After turning off the car twice it managed to drive fine but with the check engine light and blinking CC light. I went to the local shop and had them get the code and sure enough it was the P2138. The check engine light and CC light weren't on but he was able to look at the code history. Thank you for posting this. Definitely helps me not freak out knowing it's not a SUPER expensive fix.

[@anthonysova7117]

Now that’s where experience plays it’s part kinda like go with your gut Excellent work

[@themechanic6117]

Subarus...they fix themselves. Except when its a headgasket 😂👍

[@jamesjeffery1973]

@Ahmed Edwin Yup, been watching on Flixzone} for years myself :D

[@tinkerwest]

I see a wiper motor replacement job coming up soon...😁

[@thomaspeterson8659]

Six months down the line!😀

[@adamg7270]

Or a possible Subie carbeque. I'd just swap that wiper motor with a used one.

[@bostedtap8399]

Great diagnosis and job well done. Thanks for sharing

[@HouseCallAutoRepair]

My experience with the wiper motor is that an overhaul and regrease is all they EVER need. The wiper arm shaft gets so corroded they bind. Interesting... A tenth of a volt difference causes a throttle to go unresponsive....

[@dans_Learning_Curve]

I've cleaned a few shafts that go through the glass on rear wiper motors.

[@dans_Learning_Curve]

Drive by wire. Fail safe.

[@emjoneshouseDIY]

Anything to do with throttle, brakes, or steering in a modern vehicle has electrical redundancies built into the system. The logic behind going into a limp mode is safety. If both sensors looking at the same thing(pedal position) but aren't reported the same thing neither can be trusted.

[@wyattoneable]

Nice diag with proper results. Always a pleasure to watch how you approach a challenge.

[@vincescalise4821]

Great work Ivan, and the floppy windshield wiper was very funny ,that pedal sensor lives in a very unfriendly place no wonder it crapped out

[@DaveSender66]

Nice work once again Ivan. Thank you for taking the time out of your busy schedule to make these videos. I'm guessing you're going to be making more construction equipment repair videos than car videos in the near future. Follow the $$$.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Haha that's right, Dave :)

[@SmittySmithsonite]

I thought my neighbor was funny for using an Escape as a yard horse. Harry's got him beat with the 'Baru! 😁 Two of my most hated jobs - intermittents, and interior work! You did it all without one cuss. You're a better man than I, Ivan. 👍🍻

[@porky7753]

Another great fix brother, that wiper motor is on borrowed time though. lol

[@AP9311]

Hey ivan, nice diagnosis!! Great fix to sporadic problem in the gas pedal, hope we get to see the tear down of the old one. See what's up. The owner got lucky on the wiper problem! I had to replace mine as it was seized solid!! I did test power and grounds, but wiper wouldn't move! Good call

[@seanhuxley5596]

Dissimilar metals and salt on the wiper arm shaft cause corrosion, you need to clean and grease the shaft..

[@musicalgreasemonkey]

Ivan I have a 2006 Outback with high miles and the original accelerator pedal and when the floor heat is on for the first time on a somewhat humid but cold/cool temperature day, the pedal sticks just above idle. Snap your foot off the accelerator and it returns to idle. Let the car sit idling starting at idle and it wants to increase engine speed but the computer keeps it at idle speed. Tap the accelerator pedal under this condition and then the rpms drop very low and return to idle. Perhaps a scenario for the bench!

[@jdtractorman7445]

I just wish manufacturers would leave electronics off of the throttle pedal/throttle plate control. Give me an old fashioned mechanical cable any day. I think rear wiper motors go bad because of all the road spray that accumulates back there, then it seeps into the motor because the seal isn't that good at keeping out moisture. At 2:02 Ivan, check out the grams per second on the MAF without the engine running?

[@jonhutchens9770]

The small service motors can get a bridge in the armature causing a dead spot. This can clear itself. They also have a thermal switch to prevent severe overheating. This switch resets when cool.

[@robertmedina6875]

Thank you Ivan!!

[@joshuapruden6497]

Another fantastic video. I have said this once, but i will say it again... This should be on cable!

[@baxrok2.]

Yeah, I'd love to see that APP fail on the bench. Good job Ivan!

[@richardcranium5839]

you caved into the force young jedi the parts cannon awaits. once you've mastered that there is the death star.....

[@mrb1864]

He going to the dark side of the force :-) Maybe obi one auto can save him ...

[@johnaclark1]

I fought that P2138 APP code on a 2015 GMC Canyon a while back. It would set every few months. After several visits where I couldn't duplicate I noticed that there was an aftermarket backup sensor system installed in the rear bumper that worked with one of those remote head units you put in the front of the car. The remote head unit was gone but the sensors in the bumper were still there. There is a service bulletin that tells you to make sure there are no aftermarket accessories installed. They were only hooked up to the reverse light signal and ground but I removed the module that was in the rear bumper and I haven't seen the truck back for that code in over a year so I'm pretty sure that fixed it.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Nice! Dang aftermarket garbage lol

[@Garth2011]

You'd think the aftermarket companies that do this kind of thing could be restricted by the automotive authorities that oversee them in some way for screwing up vehicles.

[@johnaclark1]

@@Garth2011 Too bad there's nobody that oversees them...if there was maybe aftermarket parts would fit and work.

[@TheCowgirlNiamh]

Nice job Ivan! You have the magic touch to make things work again!

[@arthurfricchione8119]

Ivan,intermittent problems are always a nightmare in any field. At lesst in automotive you can coast or limp home. In my field of aviation well that a different concern. Glad I only mess with my autos now. Have a good one Ivan. Artie ❤️

[@arthurfricchione8119]

Nope

[@throttlebottle5906]

self resetting (bimetalic) thermal breaker in the motor, fix the rusted shaft dragging issue and done ;) russian style no parts required lol

[@jamesbruno5896]

Nice job Ivan!

[@BigEightiesNewWave]

LOL I had one , had the "ghost-walking" unsafe handling issue. Unloaded it on Carmax.

[@JohnCalebWarren]

I love your channel man! You have a great thing going for ya, keep up the great work! 👍👍

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Thank you for the kind words, John :)

[@45AMT]

Awesome repair Ivan!

[@noredcr]

Same code on my car. New oem pedal assembly has not corrected the problem, replaced throttle body too and still get it.

[@josephv.3732]

Lmk how u fixed it I’m in the same hole

[@mikechiodetti6737]

Intermittents are such fun! I've chased many of them. Time is the enemy and thinking out of the box helps to find the problem/solution. Hopefully that info about the main and sub voltages is the answer to the problem.

[@ojjenkins7110]

Thanks Ivan. Now I know how to change my foot feed if I ever need to in my 08 Outback :-) Will you be doing a vid on the old foot feed? So much flying by wire in these newer cars these days.

[@ojjenkins7110]

dobro utra

[@marccurtis3464]

Ivan, could that potentiometer have corroded pins? Since y'all are in/out of snow & mud there in the North. Are we hopefully gonna get to see inside the Accelerator unit? I'd like to know how they operate! Thanks Ivan!

[@adamtrombino106]

Position A and B MUST match exactly. A couple tenths difference will confuse the computer enough to send it into limp home mode. Scope the old 1. I'll bet you find lots of small drop outs and voltage glitches that the scanner is too slow to catch. I'd also be willing to bet that there is evidence of water intrusion inside that old sensor from yrs of water shoes and carpet.

[@stephenarling1667]

Is the position sensor a potentiometer? Those can generally be fixed with contact cleaner spray.

[@BigEightiesNewWave]

My car has a throttle cable and has never failed. 2002 Focus ZX3/Manual.

[@coreym3201]

It's corrosion on the wiper just did mine. Take it apart clean it and you'll be good to go 👍

[@daveyio87]

i think temperature and moisture in the air from the floor mats and carpet from snow from shoes, maybe some road salt creates the perfect condition for setting these codes... i've only had 2 vehicles i was ever able to duplicate the p2138. the parameter is 175 ms of disagreement... i recently had a car that gm told the tech to do the usual. pedal, rewire the circuits directly with its own harness from ecm to gas pedal, then a pcm. well that was all done a few years ago, came back in, carpet wet from snow, interior nice and cold, and it need another gas pedal...

[@Nudnik1]

Some wiper motor s riveted together no screws. Usually Japanese electrical best . Nice work Thanks

[@graymodeler]

Probably a redundancy double reading drive by wire pedal. Too bad the Boeing 737 Max didn't use that in their attitude sensors.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Yeah for sure lol

[@metoon3092]

Great Video! You should, however, have replaced the pedal sensor with a Dorman part. Any question as to why, contact Eric O. Lol

[@leedress2187]

or Joe's Auto Electric. if it has wings, throw it off a bridge and see if it flies!

[@kennedy67951]

Maybe you should have taken the wiper motor apart and cleaned it. Put new lube in and reinstalled. This may have been a better fix, in my opinion. What do you think? Thanks for the upload.

[@MrRShoaf]

What criteria does Subaru have for setting the code? I am troubled by replacing the overpriced part and hoping for the best strategy.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

I think if the difference is greater than 0.2V it goes into limp mode

[@mikepratali5582]

what about the bench testing of the APP.... you know with the heat gun???

[@spelunkerd]

Nice vid, I was hoping you would take a sledge hammer to the bad device to see how it works and why it failed. Corrosion?

[@hnd2893]

Problem detection by the ECM happens in 116ms.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

That's fast!

[@unclemarksdiyauto]

Possibly some dirt or whatever got into that wiper motor? Worth saving the price of a wiper motor. May last a long time. Most would not have played with it after quick tests and new motor would have been sold! As we see, sometimes spending a little more time solves the problem. Its not like a self healing head gasket! (Especially on a Subaru!)

[@throttlebottle5906]

the shaft rust right down past the rubber cap and inside the sleeve bushing (bearing surface)

[@quantumspinup7418]

Excellent!

[@John76546-x]

Some VW will have code for o2 sensor and maybe throttle peddle. Before replacing throttle pedal on VW, you need to check o2 sensor. If ground bad on o2 sensor it will cause throttle pedal to not work ( no response when pressed).

[@Spelter]

Cool, didn't know that, thx for the tip.

[@Garth2011]

You have to laugh a little bit on some of these "electronic" parts. They will in fact wear out even though they shouldn't. This part of course is a combination of mechanical and electronic however, even with the 100% integrated electronics, too many of those parts are failing to fit the "solid state" category. Why? the engineering of those parts/boards/solder etc. is too far on the side of bare minimum. It's almost as if they engineers make it a criteria to engineer parts to only last as long as the warranty period but even today, they cannot find the happy medium as too many vehicles experience failed parts right smack in the middle of the warranty and at times, within only a few months. A rather expensive part too and it didn't really last very long. You'd think a part that is used heavily and always in use when the vehicle is operating, they'd design something more robust. Could a failing AP also open the throttle on it's own causing high risk of injury? That wiper motor assembly should get a looking over...if it heats up like that when in use, could be a hazard. A Salvage yard might have one. Thanks for the review Ivan...as always.

[@InsideOfMyOwnMind]

I think the reason they have redundant sensors is so that if they do NOT agree the computer makes sure that the vehicle will not run away by restricting throttle response as this one did..

[@throttlebottle5906]

@@InsideOfMyOwnMind that's what the person "driver seat" is supposed to do, control the vehicle even when something fails out of control ;) perhaps time to for test cars and mandatory training before being allowed to operate them at all.. that would thin the driving heard down to much and they'd all cry about sales loss lol

[@mykofreder1682]

Dual sensor is probably a safety concern so a runaway sensor does not cause you to accelerate uncontrollably, it make sense the computer would shut down with a disagreement.

[@mrb1864]

Oh man it a Buckaru & the comeback kid . Hope you nailed it this time . Sometimes for sanity time and billing best way deal with it is combination of giving issue time present more clues/faults and bit of thoughtful parts changing lol :-O goes against your philosophy of no parts required and pinpointing the cause but you can't conclude much when testing a car that works and intermittent issue that can't be induced fully . thoughtful parts or small fixes even if doesn't fix it may narrow the probabilities making next attempt more likely a win and time/cost efficient .

[@engeneer_ru5827]

It is possible to 100% catch a malfunction. Но это займет много времени. Насколько я понимаю, Ивану выгоднее рискнуть и купить новую запчасть. Нет времени для традиционного расследования Ивана с использованием PICO.

[@mrb1864]

@@engeneer_ru5827 sometimes the part approach cheaper than hours of testing . I've had several jobs where 100% diagnosis not possible as such random fault and/or time spent diagnosing simply too expensive option when a part 40bucks ... I always like an Ivan 'no parts required' or in depth component failure autopsy though :-)

[@jeffreybrookes9731]

I would say it's a steam problem wet feet and Heat

[@bostedtap8399]

Jeffrey Brookes, smelly feet 🤔

[@closertothetruth9209]

easy pedal install , man some are a real pain

[@brucebratschi4300]

Wiring diagrams. What do you find most useful?

[@Danger-ds7vz]

So did this fix it? I have the same car same issue

[@byrd203]

I Wonder if there's also a firmware update for the car that may also correct this too

[@Micko350]

Ivan are they able to be 'recalibrated'?! Like steering etc?

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Guess not on this one!

[@engeneer_ru5827]

Привет Иван! Где же анализ сигналов твоим другом PICO ? :) Думаю, что разрешающая способность сканера, значительно хуже, чем PICO. Однажды, я столкнулся с проблемой датчика ABS - кратковременное пропадание сигнала. График на экране сканера не показывал короткого провала сигнала. А классический советский осциллограф мне показал ОЧЕНЬ короткий отрицательный импульс. Какой сигнал отдает датчик педали газа ? Два дифференциальных напряжения или CAN ? Износ резистивного слоя в датчике? Я, реставрировал датчик IPS, сместил ось вращения на 1 мм. Помогло хорошо. Смотрю с интересом, Денис

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Спасибо за коммент, Денис! Здесь всё просто: два аналоговых датчика на 5V :)

[@fredandcheryl94]

Oh no don’t fire the parts cannon !

[@atlas869]

I miss the days when we had throttle cables ! so now it;s 2 bills and more !???

[@jeremyanthony9300]

Ivan, how much was that part?

[@shawnlockard2370]

I think you are awesome

[@mariogiron6120]

Who brings their car to a shop when they have Ivan in their backyard?🤷🏻‍♂️

[@ufartface]

his backyard neighbors are miles away

[@dc5723]

Get ready to fire up the parts cannon! KABOOM

[@byrd203]

The Belts are also Squealing

[@zx8401ztv]

I think the wiper motor was frightened of you, ..... ok ok dirty commutators/brushes or slightly mucky switch :-D I'm quite supprised that they use pots in the peddle, not the most reliable thing but they must be a much higher quality than the crackling volume control types. I bet the wipers are worn, that would show slight differences.

[@aymenmohamed1134]

👍👍

[@MikesSoftLemonade]

Hey Ivan, do you know anyone that wants to sell a Vantage Pro battery charging cradle?

[@donnierobertson3088]

Nice

[@joehomanick]

Should have cleaned the throttle body . It might be sticking because of carbon buildup . That will cause a limp home condition

[@fieldsofomagh]

Surgery needed on pedal unit for next video.

[@oldhvacguy8427]

Rear wiper doesn't work? Have Ivan lay his healing hands on it!!! Good to go! Amazing!

[@Paul1958R]

Ivan, Great video, analysis, and repair - thank you! It always blows my mind that GM/Ford/Chryco parts are are almost entirely made in china or mexico but Suburu parts (like that pedal assy) are made in USA. American car mfrs are always crying that they cannot 'afford' to make parts here in the US but the Japanese do it with no issue. God bless Paul (in MA)

[@Charles_Mulberry_7977]

What model year is this Outback?

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

I am guessing you didn't watch the first 15 seconds of the video Carlos? ;)

[@Charles_Mulberry_7977]

Yeah. Missed that. 2006 got it. How long have they had the drive by wire? I thought my 2011 Legacy has a throttle cable?

[@leedress2187]

probably a rusty spot in that wiper assembly.

[@sinegra30]

Leaking heater core? I have not finished the viseo yet, lets see what happen

[@staind288]

No

[@Anonymous-it5jw]

Car was slow in turning over the engine when you first started it. Check battery voltage and for corrosion on the battery terminals and body/engine block grounds, and throttle body connections (lube with dielectric grease) and the rear wiper grounds and for rust on shaft. Lube the rear wiper motor and arm mechanism. For grins and giggles, check out this diagnosis of throttle body wiring issues in a GM truck - kzbin.info/www/bejne/i2Onm4CZgsSEq80 and the repair of that issue by D-Ray Smith kzbin.info/www/bejne/pWTClmhtjpmairs.

[@JD-iu3vi]

Hopefully not last.

[@timewa851]

engine swap in 90 days-ish.

[@mharry860]

I thought Subaru's were good cars until my daughter bought one. It had 100k on it, head gaskets failed even though they had already been replaced, then it threw a cam chain because the tensioner failed, then a cv joint failed and finally the ABS failed on the freeway in the rain and it got totaled.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Wow sounds like a lemon lol. Did she change her oil on time? Maybe the head gaskets and timing belt failed because the shop that did the work the first time messed it up...not always the car's fault :)

[@mharry860]

@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics She did change her oil every 3000 miles, but I have no idea about the shop that changed the head gaskets, that was done before she bought it.

[@bendy1808]

she okay after the totaling did the wallet hurt more than the total

[@mharry860]

@@bendy1808 No, insurance covered it and she was fine.

[@teamsix7185]

If he spun the wheels hard.... it can throw the code and show the accelerator sensor (pedal assembly) is bad, and go into limp mode. I bet he spun the wheels in the mud.... and it went into limp mode. Sometimes you gotta be the hard ass.... and advise your neighbor.... to buy himself a truck. :D If he drives his Subaru in the same way in the future... he will be back.... unfortunately. Reset and tell him you want to wait to see if it happens again. Explain to him the wheel spin is a phenomenon related to that car. Otherwise when it happens again due to wheel spin (after you put in the new accelerator assembly), your customer is likely to start to lose faith in you. Also there is an updated version on that pedal that does not have the 2 springs that will give more life. The original version has been known to go out 35,000 miles.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

What does "spinning the wheels" have to do with the accelerator pedal signal lol? And he says that the Subaru is better at climbing muddy and snowy hills than his 2014 GMC Sierra!!

[@teamsix7185]

@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics it messes with the accelerator calibration/computer/wheel speed sensors momentarily. I'm talking about hard intermittent free wheel spinning (like you might experience in deep mud) not normal driving conditions. Limp mode can be caused by an overspeed condition, rpms climbing too high too fast and exceeding a set allowance and confusing the computer. ON THIS CAR. The driver expressed a driving scenario that kinda fits. Plus the fact that it was that one incident and then drove fine. If you do some digging you will see. I know it sounds stupid... but it is real on the Subaru. Subaru's are great driving in difficult road conditions for sure. Heck I own one. By the way I think you are one of the best trouble shooters on KZbin.... great videos!

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Interesting to know! This case is different however, as was the first time it happened back in August. Just no throttle response after an extended warm-up idle :)

[@teamsix7185]

@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Ahhh... sounds like you got it sorted out.

[@throttlebottle5906]

ruh-roh-raggy... pooparu limpback

[@bgregg55]

next time the wiper freezes up & he tries to use it I bet it quits again.

[@fredandcheryl94]

The wiper is fixed Russian way!

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

:D

[@jfinnall]

So why not just sell him a cheap code scanner to clear the codes and go another 6 months. After all it is just a farm vehicle.

[@wacio]

Ivan is turning American - I would be expecting soldering iron and de-oxy (Russian) fix...

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

LOL! Maybe if it wasn't such a critical safety item. But now I have the old one to play with on the bench :)

[@mikefoehr235]

Is throttle by wire more reliable than a conventional cable system? My work van is a 💩 MB Sprinter...it has hands down the worst throttle by wire system ever created. Leave it to the Germans to screw that up to.

[@salshamsi]

just change the damn throttle

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Wrong channel haha...no parts cannon allowed :D

[@salshamsi]

@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics 😂😂😂😂😂 I had the same problem with my subaru legacy 2005 4 CL I cleaned the throttle, and I still had it I changed the oxygen senser and home lam went off I really don't care about the check engine sign, I had a bigger problem with it My car kept holding speed when going more than a km And I couldn't accelerate when that happend, accelleration pedal didn't have any sensitivity no matter I push it. Now iam trying it after changing the sensor, and I hope it fixed

[@fartinapaperbag7965]

Spray it with WD 40

[@michaeltrinidad1217]

I have a question. Is the rear wiper motor still getting hot? And if so, wouldn't that be a fire hazard?

[@HUBBABUBBADOOPYDOOP]

*GIMME BACK MY MONEY OR I'LL BEAT IT OUTA YOU, BUDDY*

[@jay7264]

Now your married to it.

[@Evokvn]

Third

[@nickbee1291]

First comment. No way! Haha

[@loganr8171]

First lol