Comic Book Grading Drama! Scams, Lawsuits and Damaged Comics!

[@Swagglehaus]

See! This is why you shouldn't grade...only buy raw! 😉

[@AutomaticComics]

💯

[@The9.9Newsstand]

Hahaha I see what you did there!

[@MetalBum]

Would you buy an amazing fantasy 15 in a raw. The seller claims it’s a 3.5 and you think it’s 2.0? And then when you buy it you find out later the cover was trimmed? And that it’s a 2.5 in reality. But you paid a 3.5 price because you just trusted the seller?

[@CoMoComicBooks]

@@MetalBumWHO would this ever happen to??? 👀😬🙋🏻‍♂️

[@Supertomscustoms]

@@MetalBumno different than all the times people have bought CGC graded books, gotten them regraded only for them to drop a grade. Sure, they’re slightly more reliable than the average dealer. But far from 100% accurate. Imagine paying 60x for a 9.9 only for a corner to get dinged in the case. Thats a much bigger price drop than a 1 point drop on AF15.

[@tensixtythreecomics]

I’m holding off on sending in over 200 books to see what the sales report of psa and bendgate. Looking forward to hearing your updates

[@Thynqikan]

that cgc 9.9 GSXM #1 is a 9.9 by label only. There is a video by Improve Collecting where he compares a 9.6 to images he took of the 9.9 and the 9.9 is worse in all aspects. Proof that CGC is doing the 9.9's to gain business in my opinion.

[@wonderworldcomics2020]

Don’t forget it seems all the gift grades are going to mr pinks auction house, so that’s weird too

[@brute_nm]

For New Years Eve, you should distill this into a slow-mo black & white compilation with Sarah McLachlan "I Will Remember You" 😂

[@The9.9Newsstand]

Lollll

[@robotzvsfolks1559]

I love CBCS's new label. Books look very nice in them. I actually doubled my subs to them since they did. The books are for my personal collection though not resell. And i still use CGC as well, i just send more than i usually do to CBCS now since the label change, so to each their own.

[@Bar-Lord]

I actually do the same. I don’t flip/deal, so all of my books are PC. I prefer their label as well as their slab to CGC’s.

[@russianmuffin98]

I need to catch up

[@sassysteveartist]

Perception is everything in the grading game. Collectors are perfectionists, and they know when something isn't right - and there are a lot of inconsistencies, unprofessional and even exposed fraudulent practises within CGC. They charge a premium rate for a business model which is beyond flawed. At this point, I'm amazed that anyone would trust them. Great content as ever. The more I see, the more glad I am that I buy raw, and to read.

[@DocReasonable]

I really don't know what it'll take for people to stop using CGC.

[@skytripa]

Will take the people selling graded to get the courage to do so. It don't matter what issues pop up with CGC they keep using them. If the market is flooded with 1 company thats what people see and want.

[@Supertomscustoms]

It’s taken 20 years to get where we are. In another 20 years, when every gold/silver/bronze/ key has been slabbed, I predict whatever shops are left will have “dollar” bins of slabbed modern books. Thats when people will stop using them.

[@MichaelHollen]

Until CGC books stop selling for a premium relative to other graded books or raw books CGC will continue to be the go to.

[@DocReasonable]

@@MichaelHollen They already have stopped selling for a premium. Their reputation is sht.

[@lmn222002]

CGC is toast, and CBCS is hurt by losing people. Overall, I think grading is losing its value. Raw values have been going higher than graded recently.

[@illuzion30]

@2:48: The old CBCS label was my fave. It wasn't gaudy like CGC's. I'm generally still all-in on PSA for cards for personal collection consistency. When I first started grading cards, they had those $7-8/card bulk specials and I also liked that they were less bulky than BGS.

[@beachrain8617]

I got my first PSA submission back this week. The plastic on the cases is so light and study feels nice hope they use the same plastic for the comic cases. Sent off some the new Marvel Platinum cards & sports. Upper Deck Marvel Platinum might be the best set Marvel has ever done, I couldn't stop buying singles.

[@nidaldeeb5663]

Always informative and well-researched. Pleasure, Ryan. But dude, add some variety to the pictures in the thumbnail. Maybe a Winter Soldier tee and a red Spidey hat? Take a ton of vacation-location pics and cycle them through.

[@codyspencer3491]

Totally agree. Out of all the drama this year, banana gate is the worst. Literally damaging books and killing the resale value with a very noticeable dent center spine. This is still happening right now, it has not been fixed.

[@leerogers5318]

Due to the reasons discussed in this video and others not mentioned, I no longer slab my comics. I purchase my slabs from the secondary market, but that has become increasingly tricky. I've already had issues with two sellers who sent me slabs with significant CGC bends in the inner well. Now, I always ask sellers about their CGC slabs if those details aren't in the description. Specifically, I inquire about any cracks, scratches (both inner and outer well), and the notorious CGC bends. If they can’t provide a written response, I choose not to buy.

[@BrooksSeanRobinson]

60x the price for a .1 bump in a subjective grade is absurd.

[@AutomaticComics]

I don’t disagree.

[@tabiii-zv9zw]

I think we need some card videos

[@johnmoran6418]

Ryan...you doing a heritage wrap up vid?

[@FierceRabbit11]

Hi Ryan, thank you for this overview... terrific! Makes me want to sit my non-comic collecting friends down and orient them to the whole sitch (with far too much excitement on my part). My 2 centavos on sub-grading, after watching this video & the Swag interview with Paul Logan this morning: it is often said that grading is more art than science. Perhaps the proprietary "algorithm" they mention, crunching the sub-grades in the background, gets you the same result regardless of the grader (I believe from their website that CBCS uses 3 independent graders per book currently to achieve consistency). I do agree with the sentiment that sub-grades by themselves probably wouldn't catch on. In my view, they're not unimportant but my attention would wane after seeing the final score/overall grade. Maybe what makes sub-grades (and of course a proprietary algorithm) important is an improvement in consistency. And consistency - recent 9.9s anyone? is the bedrock of grading. It's a long game move where public trust is built on... well, science.

[@robbin8300]

PSA could fund a class-action against Bananagate. If successful, they would surely become the go to grading company.

[@fiddlechips8555]

If you buy expensive comics online, they have to be graded. I crack all my slabs. I enjoy my in thick mylar. Sorry but if it’s over $500, it has to be graded. I got burned in the late 90’s with restored books. It’s not that fault of the grading companies that the grade became more important than the book. Buyers dictate the market.

[@beachrain8617]

And what is crazy is how many people don't understand why we need grading services. I don't have a expert from Pawn Stars to travel around the country and inspect my collectibles before they are shipped to me. Grading services are the best thing to ever happen to help eliminate forgeries and restored items.

[@BigMoneyGripMCV]

comic subgrades can be fine. You could go way overboard so just keep it at 4 grades: Front cover 9.6, back cover 9.8, pages (meaning interior pages) 9.8, spine 9.0. Or something like that.

[@rgi_comics]

Morning Ryan, are you planning to do a review of the latest Heritage auction? I’ve been looking forward to that one. Wanted to get your opinion on the varying prices of the EC Gaines file copies.

[@MJComix]

Been a crazy year for sure. Hope we get some normality back soon.

[@timothybrandt6911]

You skipped over the restoration lawsuit before the bending inner wells.

[@timdanner2596]

And I was just saying to myself an hour ago, "Why hasn't Ryan posted a video yet on the CBCS lawsuit."

[@AutomaticComics]

I was on vacation =).

[@schlyer]

the CGC die-hards are suffering from Stockholm syndrome. Banana-gate and the gaslighting CGC has done have me just waiting for PSA to be available

[@DanThrue]

I had a few books back from CGC that has this banana situation, I was pretty disappointed when I got them back, not about the grades but the visual appearance, my first comment was that the presser didn't seem to have worked on them (he had).. Even if they would accept them back for mechanicals, it's so expensive when we do this from Europe. By the way, any updates on the break-even-collection or what name it has now - the collection you bought with bigby.

[@300baud]

I think sub-grades are niche but might be preferred for some books. Imagine a book with a front cover grade of 9.8 but a back cover grade of 8.5 because of a stain. A seller could use the sub-grade as a selling point of a book that has an overall grade of 8.5 and point to the cover 9.8 grade and go "look how nicely it presents, the front cover is a perfect 9.8."

[@darthrooster1]

Sub grades are a bad idea for comics. Cards are front and center + corners. Comic books have too many pages and other factors. Can you imagine a grader having to take the time to give a grade on each page? It would increase the grading time by a huge margin.

[@300baud]

@@darthrooster1 I could care less about sub-grades, but there will be some collectors that will go after books with higher sub-grades. For instance, buying a 9.8 book with a front cover sub-grade of 9.9 or 10. Sub-grades don't have to encompass every single aspect that is part of the overall grade, but could represent areas. For instance, a front cover sub-grade could encompass surface, corners, centering, etc.

[@tonyzane4945]

Good point re sub grades and sellers...

[@ronaldbourgeois1255]

Heard fantastic four #1 9.6 cgc at auction went for $2,040,000.00.

[@jabezcreed]

The irony of the latest drama is that PSA might have been poaching talent and trade secrets from CBCS. Wouldn't they have tried to poach from CGC? Haha

[@timhall5382]

Dave has lost his mind. He sounds like a crazy person.

[@mrcrispex]

I have an honest question: why does CGC continue to be the market leader for graded books considering all of the problems that they continue to have? I don't have a horse in this race at all, but it seems that there are better options available. For example: 1. CBCS has more robust slabs and a more strict and consistent set of grading guidelines. 2. PGX has very compact slabs that fit all sizes of books including magazine size and they still fit in standard size graded bins. 3. EGS has UV resistant slabs and completely customizable labels. Etc etc etc. I'm legitimately curious to know why people still bother with CGC.

[@AutomaticComics]

This is why: 1) They have the majority of the market already. Like 95% of graded books are CGC. That’s a big moat, and really the most important part of it because most people then have CGC books and like their books to match. 2) They sell for more than the other graders. This is a result of #1. More collectors have them/want them so they sell for more. The difference in price isn’t quite worth the risk of trying to move a cbcs to a CGC, so that’s why that doesn’t really work. Higher value means dealers and facilitators are more likely to use them because they want to maximize their sale. 3) CGC does ultimately fix the big problems that come up. Haters can hate all they want, but generally CGC fixes the issues eventually. I complain about CGC, but they typically fix the problems. 4) The idea that cbcs is more consistent or strict than CGC is 100% a myth. Again, you’ll have haters that will scream otherwise, but it’s just not true. They grade the same for the most part, if anything, cbcs grades easier at low grades, not more strict. CGC just grades like 50x as many books as cbcs so of course you’ll see issues more often.

[@AutomaticComics]

And this isn’t me being some CGC shill or anything. I’m just stating the facts of the situation as to why people continue to use them, and why yes, I will continue to use them once this bending situation is resolved to my satisfaction.

[@mrcrispex]

@@AutomaticComics that's great feedback, thank you for taking the time to help me understand. The majority of people already having CGC slabs and wanting the collection to match makes total sense to me. That's a tough hurdle to get past for other companies for sure. I wasn't aware of just how much more CGC processes compared to other companies either. It makes sense that more issues would come up since the sheer odds are higher. I appreciate the feedback! Keep up the great work

[@AutomaticComics]

@@mrcrispex glad it helped 👍. It will be interesting to see if PSA can find a way to overcome that big gap.

[@jamisonlm3]

More competition is great and all, but it'll amount to a hill of beans if everyone keeps choosing cgc. It seems, for better or for worse, the comic community has chosen cgc.

[@timothybrandt6911]

I feel like the cbcs Banana 🍌 video is the equivalent of a political campaign video that we see recently like vote for me I'm not as bad as the other person 😅

[@danielsantini4580]

The price of the cgc should be once not every transaction. Stop passing the buck it’s turning into overpriced book. Buy raw.if it’s a first appearance, slab it.

[@The9.9Newsstand]

What a yeeeaaaarrr it’s been!! Great Video! Thank you 🙏🏼 !!

[@ronaldbourgeois1255]

Sending in a golden age Canadian Captain America #67 to cgc do think it’ll be ok no bending.

[@bandoogiemanz]

I use cgc, i have a submission at them as we speak. However, I'm under no illusions, cgc, these auction houses, etc, are engaging in a plethora of dubious and questionable business practices. I mean I don't see how you can come to any other conclusion.

[@Vexer-rl9fq]

Is it just me or does that PSA label on comics look like a REALLY old CGC red label?

[@timhammell394]

Yeah, I just read my comics without all this yotz.

[@karlb10024]

Ryan, why aren't you starting a consulting service? you could make a fortune!

[@powderedtoastman1070]

Let the junk slab era begin

[@mattolsen397]

Subgrades just seem like an algorithm for calculating a grade. Can’t see how they win a lawsuit about a system and algorithm that hasn’t even really been launched yet. You showed another subgrade system. It just seems like a waste of time and money on their part. Maybe Beckett are just so mad they are losing to PSA on cards that they don’t want to surrender this market to them as well. I feel like the lawsuit must stem from the larger corporate competition more than this non-issue.

[@starchad1969]

Why can't we have a grading company that does not slab the books. Place the book in a mylar then in a toploader an then place a tamperpoof holgraphic seal over the top that would have to be broken if comic is ever removed. It would be cheaper and faster to do so it would not hurt the overall value of the book if it is removed. This would help the online buyer be more trusting of the grade, but eliminate these crazy expensive sealed slabs.😮

[@thecomickeeper5127]

I like this idea . It should def be done!

[@AutomaticComics]

This does exist already. CBCS provides this option. It’s called a “Raw Grade” on their site.

[@Supertomscustoms]

A while back I remember seeing someone who tried to open an online marketplace that exclusively sold CBCS raw graded books. Sadly it never took off. People are now accustomed to buying numbers and plastic. Not books.