Secrets of a Shared Universe in Comics! [Discussion]

[@grassypond]

I know this is an older video but I want to throw my hat into the discussion anyway. The shared world and the endless backlog of issues is the very reason why I am reading Superhero comics. I grew up on long running European comics and Simpson comics, and both obviously have a sort of reset when the story is done. What I like about American Superhero comics is that it always feel like there is more to find if you just dig deeper. Even when the status quo eventually resets there is still hundreds of stories that take place at roughly same time whenever I want to go back into a specific era of comics. I know that people often find it daunting and often ask "what do I need to read to understand this?" but for me the journey of figuring out what the hell is happening on my own is the very reason I read DC and Marvel. It's the one thing they can offer that isn't found any where else.

[@WhiteRaven696]

What Tiffany is describing from Sailor Moon sounds like the pages at the end of “History of the Marvel Universe” and “X-Men: Grand Design”, and I’m definitely a fan of Marvel implementing that into most of their continuity heavy books.

[@TheRealGuywithoutaMustache]

The concept of fictional universes in comics in general can be pretty mind bending

[@TaticalDuD]

The mind bending thing is that if the Multiverse exists in our reality, these fictional characters ARE ACTUALLY REAL

[@kamposteria7307]

@@TaticalDuD It depends on whether parallel universes have to follow the same rules of physics as our universe. If they need to then there can't be a Flash or a Superman

[@ryanmatthews3609]

@@kamposteria7307 screw superman! and screw all superheroes!

[@richardv340]

Valiant has the best, most consistent shared universe, Hands down. They're miles ahead of DC and Marvel. When Mexico City was destroyed and LA attacked during the Armor Hunters crossover, the effects of that were still felt years later, in almost every title. That's one example of how cohesive it all is. And I've never felt confused about where characters are throughout each title. I wish they got more props for this in this episode.

[@ryebreadreturn1]

I would argue it's a lot easier for Valiant because they have many fewer total comics published. Both at any given time and historically. Generally speaking, the more total story and writers you have, the harder it is to maintain and utilize continuity. I do think Marvel and DC could do it better than they currently do, but that's easy for me to say since I'm not an editor or writer.

[@freack3333]

Now Tiffany should illustrate Florida Ethan.

[@andrewbrautigam2503]

I would love for "Florida Ben" to show up in a Back Issues episode now...

[@danieldejesusfigueredoorop1428]

Oh! I' am so gonna waiting for it, maybe a swamp thing one!

[@shanew1990]

I'm from the future and I'm have not seen anything of Florida Ben in 2024. I'm sad now.

[@nickabenson]

I really enjoyed this video. I like the concept behind Comic Line a lot more than "The Good, The Bad & The Ugly". It has the same cast, but I enjoy just seeing everyone talk about a topic together more than seeing them each review a comic individually. Thank you. I am excited to see more videos like this in the future.

[@langleymneely]

You all are hitting the nail on the head when it comes to respect for continuity! Its a thing that is important not just in comics but in fictional writing across mediums. This is a major issue and sticking point I currently have with modern Star Trek right now, especially Star Trek Discovery. Its really upsetting when a story has prided itself on maintaining continuity in such a meticulous way and now its treated like pointless garbage that no one cares about! lol Star Wars films have also had major issues in terms of its shared continuity. No story, film, tv, book, comic, should depend on its plot being explained by “supplemental material”. As an avid Marvel Unlimited subscriber that already knows how to navigate wikis to understand things I would never pay extra money for continuity footnotes. lol

[@kanborne]

I missed this show!!!!

[@danieldejesusfigueredoorop1428]

Same here! This conversations are interesting and good content.

[@RadinV1]

Missed the show guys. Glad it's back.

[@flywheelshyster]

Woo hoo! I was just listening to sone of old comic lines this morning! LOVE this channel. You all rock 🎸

[@johnk9352]

I really love it when you guys do this sort of thing. I understand that the goings on in the comic book world aren't always conducive to this sort of discussion, but the more that you can do this sort of things, the better.

[@joelberkey-lewis4102]

the problem with Editors has always been they are watching continuity of their own specific book. It wasn't as bad in the 80's into the 90's because of the number of Titles. The Continuity problems for Shared Universe has always been without a Continuity Editor whose sole purpose to police Continuity narrative, making narratives streamlined and keeping it linear. For JLA/Avengers there were two Editors, whose sole responsibility was to mandate what could or couldn't be done with those specific issues. The problem with Cross over events, and Both Companies have made crap like Zero Hour, or Atlantis Attacks, where this care wasn't given.

[@RojoDawg31]

I remember in the bendis daredevil omnibus in like an earlier book he yelled at spider-man, captain America, and Dr.Strange. And then in the omnibus they showed those characters own issues and how it affected them

[@RossOrlando]

Totally agree and happy to see the series return. But I wish you all would have spoken more about Valiant. I feel like they've done a fantastic job with their shared universe since the 2012 reboot.

[@jasondaniel1778]

Have you guys read Loki (2019)? The third issue talks about how and why some characters are able to be everywhere at once. It was a really interesting series, but sadly it got cancelled at issue 5 so we will probably never get to see where it was going.

[@BigT4489]

This all sounds like a lot of my conversations with my fellow comic buddy, and we go on for hours just like this. Loved the vidoe

[@Spikex1]

For any of its other faults, compared to DC and Marvel, Valiant's shared universe feels like somebody has a spreadsheet somewhere and a corkboard with string all around it to keep track of everything in that world. A few years ago was the first time I really noticed it on a big scale, but check out X-O Manowar fighting off an alien invasion in his own book; a global event that should be a big deal to just about everyone? Well, here is that same alien invasion in Bloodshot's book from his perspective, and here's what he's doing during the event. That's really neat. Sometimes it could come across as intrusive ("What do these Armor Hunters who I've never heard of before have to do with this Harbinger story I'm reading?"), but I commend the thought behind it and the effort they put in, with the result being a world that feels consistently lived-in with history to it. I haven't read any of Valiant's 90's material before their 2012 reboot, but I heard that that older stuff would get CRAZY with keeping their universe organized, and with a small number of books it would be so much easier for Valiant than it is when you have 86 different monthly Batman or Spider-Man appearances to keep track of.

[@Jokesama]

I really enjoy these think tank episodes on my favorite channels, please do more if possible. As for your shared universe question, personally I'm not much of a fan. I just want a good story and if that certain character had a side adventure then cool I might read that at some point.

[@Revanxbone]

Really fun comic line episode! Extremely interesting opinions! Thx for "bringing back" comic line

[@taylorpechter5422]

When it comes to continuity, I think it should be malleable. Don't be so beholden to it that it risks being inaccessible to new readers, but also don't fully ignore it because that risks alienating old readers. I know that is a fine line and it is definitely something both companies struggle with. That's why DC does a Crisis level event every five or so years and why Marvel does a huge event every summer with a relaunch happening after that. I also think both ways they do respective timelines has pros and cons. Marvel having a sliding timeline helps with modernization, but also contradicts past stories. DC having a set timeline makes it a bit simpler to follow the paths of certain characters, but also easily leads to convolution. I do think "Crisis" is a word that haunts DC. People thing whenever there's a Crisis, it means a reboot. However, in actuality, the only times DC has ever fully rebooted their universe are the original Crisis and Flashpoint. I feel the use it too much to signify a big shift. It was a mistake giving Identity Crisis and Heroes In Crisis, the Crisis moniker, because of the association that word has. I also think initiatives are slightly a problem. I get it's good with branding, but it can also get confusing. This is more on the Marvel side. They love their initiatives, whether it be The Initiative, Dark Reign, The Heroic Age, Marvel Now (twice), ANAD, and so on. DC has that problem too with having the New 52 branding on their books for too long. Yes, they unite a company under a certain banner, but they also seem inconsequential since they are pretty seen as stopgaps between events.

[@joezilla6615]

Tales of The Dark Floridaverse!!!

[@batman91777]

The Mignolaverse is maybe the most cohesive and intertwined, every single story arc pays of and has a beginning and an end .

[@michaelravencharnes9543]

Marvel DC And valiant They are my favorites, That’s awesome that you guys talked about both of them in this video also.

[@tithannisk7470]

You can totally make comics without constraints from continuity. But writing a comic book in a shared universe (like Marvel, DC or Valiant) has its own rules and continuity is one of them, it's the frame in which your story takes place. Every art form has its own rules. Which doesn't mean that you can't break the rules. But if you study the evolution of poetry, painting, litterature or cinema you'll see the same trend. There are those who break the rules from the get go and usually it sucks. And then there are those who learn the rule, apply the rules, understand the rules, master the rules and then break them creating new rules and expanding the medium. I always found the saying in comics "Creativity over continuity" to be stupid and lazy. I much rather have "Creativity IN continuity" but, of course it takes way more work and way more...guess what ?... creativity !

[@mitchellregan21]

I hope this does well enough to see you guys have more discussions on Comic Line! You guys discuss these topics with a lot of thought.

[@josephupchurch7138]

Excellent points made by everyone. Solid conversation, gang 👍

[@Proto-Kye]

the Constantine/ Harry Potter crossover has happened. it's call "The Books of Magic"

[@lucariomew365]

Going back to the Wonder Woman thing, she and the JLD were definitely fighting Circe in the midst of the Year of the villain storyline, long after Apex Lex recruited villain to Perpetua's side. Like it really doesn't make sense. Especially when you try and factor In Dr. Fate.

[@camerond4689]

Yes!!! i missed comic line

[@RadinV1]

My favorite shared universe? Easily, without question, bruce timms classic dc animated universe. Those shows and movies are amazing.

[@kofteburger]

I like Sal's shirt.

[@RadinV1]

I like ben's.

[@Martin_TheCollector]

I've never really cared about continuity, but this was real interesting as usual!

[@MiguelPerez-nr3of]

Coming from Florida. Kind of accurate how things are down here😂. I live in a pretty small town and i see Hawaiian shirts, super tan, and sunglasses all the time. My family is from Miami and its even worse over there. Btw ComicPop you guys are amazing and keep up the great work you're doing!

[@nathanielgoldfarb6478]

more comicPOP is better ComicPOP #ComicPOP100K

[@WhiteRaven696]

My main complaint about the shared universes is that no one keeps the continuity/timeline straight anymore. I read a ton of 70’s and 80’s comics last year and it was so easy to trace the throughline of time. It’s almost impossible to do so now. That’s almost entirely on the editors.

[@danieldejesusfigueredoorop1428]

There were less books, and not everyone was tossed into it. Now those universes are just bloated.

[@WhiteRaven696]

@@danieldejesusfigueredoorop1428 Which is why a hypothetical Continuity Director position is that much more important, honestly.

[@kevrokka.d.9749]

I'm a fan of Marvel exclusively. Characters, the MU itself, shared continuity, sliding-timescale, etc...I could go on and on.

[@lucariomew365]

The fact of the matter is, shared universes usually sell well. Especially once if they become franchises. 22:30-25:00 Sooo a lot of this could easily be used to establish comic book microtransactions😂.

[@Jokezz101]

I need the "Florida Ben" action figure on the new comic pop store!

[@mcx-hu5ox]

I like what you guys said about the continuity page where catches you up on what's going on but I think it should be more like a these are the issues you have to read to know what's happening in this book kind of thing where it like gives you I hate to say links but links to other books that you have to read in order to understand what's happening in this one just to give you a bit more context

[@DMorfin11]

YAY More comic pop!

[@ehahn775]

Fun times guys!

[@OomaGooma]

The shared continuity worked when there was one Spider-Man book, one X-men book, one Avengers book and so on.

[@mrsupertastic5124]

It doesnt mean we cant have great stories. It just mean trying to pinpoint exactly when they happen doesnt matter anymore.Tiffany talks about the saturday cartoon effect where ultimately stuff dont matter because you will have to go back to the familiar setting. Marvel and Dc have done such a good job making their characters iconic that we are already at this point. Comicbook status quo has become too iconic for a timeline to matter. You cant kill Gwen a flash or Gwen Stacy or even change a costume anymore without knowing it will go back in not too long.

[@gabesimmons7209]

I vaguely remember Invincible sent Mark to the Walking Dead universe in a panel it wasn’t something I’d like to see explored

[@Zxzero36]

This is me with the argument when something big happens in Gotham and none of the superheros come and show up to help batman. Like arnt they shpossed to be friends, shouldn't they be allowed to call eachother or something.

[@jtgamer-nintendo-xbox]

That’s why they’re printing epic collection at marvel starting with Vol 1

[@danielosborne1707]

Personally, Marvel is my favorite since they don't reboot constantly. Also talking about the time in the day stuff I swear Marvel at some point said their Earth had more hours in the day and that's how Spiderman could be everywhere.

[@danieldejesusfigueredoorop1428]

Between that and " technology advances faster so Spiderman gets to be in college for 20 years straight" that gotta be one hell of an interesting universe to be a physicist trying to found out how things work

[@markstriker925]

Imagine dc and marvel were in the same earth. Wow I wonder how confusing it would be living in a world with mutants mutates inhumans and drum roll METAHUMANS

[@Pachinko88Go]

Florida Ben artwork please

[@nickabenson]

DC already did a Hogwartz equivalent in their series called "Mystik U".

[@fredbushee9161]

Can’t wait for the 50 State Benitiative

[@matthewwithanm]

That "I'm Sal" seemed so sad!

[@Depthcharge2030]

I'd pay money for a Harry Potter/Hellblazer crossover. Sure it'll just be The Books of Magic but I'd still pay money to see that!

[@m.j.r2373]

WildStorm was great

[@roccoborghetti4693]

Honestly? With the advent of DC Rebirth, the Post Crisis Universe is still the “main” universe in DC. I read on the therealbatmanchronologyproject.com that Batman by the time of Black Mirror is in his 14th year and, by my own math, if we take DC Rebirth’s “10 years stolen” plus New 52’s 5 year timeline, basically the New52 all happened in a year or two. This on top of the fact that many stories within N52 are post crisis like Johns’ Green Lantern run or Killing Joke and Knightfall, the return of Wally West, plus the “merger” of N52 and PreFlashpoint Superman makes most, if not all, of the stories canon. So I like to think that my 10 years of postcrisis reading added to my 10 years of New52/Rebirth reading is all apart of one shared continuity

[@L0NELYBRICK]

The Beano shared universe.

[@kingzefer3075]

DC is the best!!! (in my opinion)

[@ultimate_lance]

I learned 2 things while watching this (1)i want Constantine to go to Hogwarts (2)i want to see Florida versions of everyone

[@galvatron3323]

A comic pop debate..go

[@nanana6477]

N52 was a mistake now DC running around like a headless chicken trying to "fix it"

[@jamjars865]

I think editors ego's at dc ruined the books and have made them just confusing....as well as writers who don't care or dont know the characters.....

[@demonzoro3893]

Moon Knight has a show now ouch

[@mitchellregan21]

DC needs to just settle their continuity already. Crises began as a fix for jumbled continuity but now it makes things unclear more than anything. Marvel continuity is still a little messy but at least we know what happened in their world.

[@cliffwoodbury5319]

How many events can one character go threw in 1 lifetime!!!! There are a million spider men so use many of the other characters!!

[@spasmhd7572]

Or, and hear me out on this, instead of footnotes telling you what to read to understand what happens... you have Comics Explained exist...

[@comicpop]

Why would they use an independent agent who isn't accountable to their own personal criteria?

[@spasmhd7572]

@ComicPOP Haha true! All I’m saying is, that I would have been so lost in the sauce if I didn’t have Rob to help explain all the related storylines for like Hickman’s Fantastic Four, Avengers/New Avengers, and Secret Wars, or how the events of Marvel 1985 explains the origins of The Marquis of Death. Having him around is a great help to understanding all these interconnected stories!

[@spasmhd7572]

@ComicPOP Side note; after rereading my comment it kinda comes off a bit harsher than I meant it too. I meant it more of a joking manner and I love with many of the points you guys bring up

[@ardenaudreyarji]

Continuity doesn't matter. (At least for me)

[@ahmedbinbakr2198]

the best DC stories of all time were literately outside of continuity or re-imaginations of them , Year One TDKR arkham asylum the killing joke swamp thing watchmen Earth One titals WW, GL, and superman injustice red sun Kingdom Come The comic industry is dying slowly and publishers are actually loosing money to sustain this current model. The only reason they are still around is so that the characters original introduction medium stands and survives for pure legacy and nostalgia. Films, shows, toys and merchandising is where WB gets the money for these iconic characters , not comics. the number of comic readers would grow exponentially if the average consumer got a great novel featuring their favorite charterer every year or so , but are not willing to invest in this current infeasible model. I agree that the avid comic reader loves continuity and ramifications to runs, but the numbers are insignificant compared to the untapped potential of focusing more on good stories first, then continuity in stead of the reverse.

[@danieldejesusfigueredoorop1428]

There gotta be a way to do both, but they print souch books just because sales are waning they can't stop to think around this problems. Good thing comic line exists to at least talk about it.

[@TevyaSmolka]

Yeah DC Comics continuity is a complete and utter mess that it isn’t even funny