Marvel Gods Explained

[@Drunk_reaper-oh7ry]

Al Ewings Venom comic wrote that Knull and the other Kings in black are equal and opposite to the Beyonders, so in my opinion Knull needs to be as high as the Beyonders on this list but I could be wrong I guess

[@comics_explained]

Yeah but it also says the Beyonders operate outside the universe while the Kings In Black operate inside it. And while the Beyonders protect the multiverse, the kings in black protect universes.

[@Bob_Reynolds]

Rob so Chaos King is different because he was destroying the multiverse?​@comics_explained

[@trehubb6144]

​@@comics_explainedYea the lore scaling has shown to prove Beyonders> Knull. Especially when we know they are powered from an even more powerful being

[@Dynobotoverlord]

​@@comics_explainedI was going to ask the same question, and that answer makes total sense,

[@y_strikes2770]

​@@trehubb6144 they're powered by deez nutz

[@phothewin6019]

I wish Marvel (or comics in general) would officially establish a cosmic hierarchy that MUST be followed by all writers to mitigate inconsistencies and retcons.

[@zorroya4856]

I mean they basically had that. Even elaborated on it in some comics. But some writes just wanna leave a mark on the marvel univerese.

[@jimmybeanchugger1832]

No but then what if they write themselves into a corner 😯 They gotta pull something out of their ass regardless might as well give em this bc the other ass pulls get to batshit levels of insane /ridiculous bullshit. You know the bs writers throw that just makes u legit shocked at that they’d actually have the balls to put that down and nobody in the company questioned it and released it and were shocked that ppl didn’t like it. For example, the plot twist in suicide squad, the forced “SAVE Martha” in Batman v Superman, anything regarding green lantern ring power limits, and don’t get me started on anime… Fairy tail is insulting to watch

[@yotuel9064]

Fairy tale has a bad case of power of friendship.

[@phothewin6019]

@@zorroya4856 If some writers don't follow it, then that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about legally requiring writers to follow one established lore and rules of the verse.

[@phothewin6019]

@@jimmybeanchugger1832 Then don't write themselves into a corner lol

[@harmonicartist]

Beyond Omega Level: Rob’s Hype

[@garyboyles5762]

Even more beyond: Rob's ability to leave cliffhangers!

[@ChauNyan]

RobCorp is too powerful

[@If_the_shoe_fits530]

They should make that a character😂, a universal concept

[@ericyork5727]

Beyond omega levels: overused fucking jokes

[@harmonicartist]

@@ericyork5727 I’ve been posting that for years. Cheer up

[@graduator14]

I've never seen the Living Tribunal and Rob in the same room. Coincidence? I THINK NOT!

[@Leevodevo]

Nice lol

[@samurai_jack_1]

Rob is the living tribunal. That's how he knows all this stuff

[@jg5004]

I still don’t like how they made a Knull in every universe. I liked the idea of him being a single being in all the multiverse.

[@Somesom33]

Yeah same here

[@kto0312]

Nah, Knull is annoying and overrated.

[@unknowngamers7749]

​@@kto0312wth anyone barely knew him lol

[@unknowngamers7749]

When did they do that?

[@jg5004]

@@unknowngamers7749 Carnage went to an alternative universe and stole Knull’s power.

[@woodrobin]

A few thoughts: 1. Franklin Richards is definitely more powerful than Mad Jim Jaspers. Mad Jim was defeated when he was cast into a void universe in which there was no reality for him to manipulate. Franklin, on the other hand, has created universes. So, if you have one who can manipulate the structure of an existing universe and another who can create a universe out of his own imagination, it's not a close contest. 2. In the Third Cosmos, where duality and conflict came into existence, Lifebringer One (the First Hero) fought the Anti-All -- in fact, they embodied everything in that cosmos. When (in part due to the interference of the Defenders) Lifebringer One defeated the Anti-All, it was fractured into many shards. All the beings of ultimate evil/nihility/oblivion, such as the Chaos King, Null, Oblivion, etc all derive from those shards of the Anti-All that scattered throughout time, space, and beyond. 3. The Beyond in which the Beyonders dwell is the remnant of the Second Cosmos (also known as the First Multiverse). The Second Cosmos was the birthplace of change. It embraced everything new, all at once, and thus rushed headlong into the headiest, wildest new experience of all: All-Death. 4. At the top of the Multiversal structure is the House of Ideas, from which the creative energies flow that are the basis of all matter, energy, time, space, events, people, etc in the Multiverse. At the open door of the House of Ideas, the One-Above-All sits, weaving the energies into patterns that give them structure. Beneath the OAA is the White Hot Room, where ideas become existence. What works is empowered, what does not burns and is reborn. So the Phoenix, at peak capability, is second only to the One-Above-All and the Living Tribunal (and then only when the Living Tribunal is acting directly as the agent of the OAA). The Phoenix is the force that changes what could be into what is, and what was into what may yet be.

[@nabilhuzir2066]

The white hot room is not actually below the house of ideas , that would be the land-that-coundn't-be-shoudn't-be where the queen of nevers is , as explored in defenders beyond and below that is the white hot room

[@JoeJoesBizzareAmbitions]

Love this thread

[@mr.googoopants3581]

⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠@@nabilhuzir2066The Land of Shouldn’t Be-Couldn’t Be is not actual a realm. It is a concept of absence similar to the sefirot it embodies in the Kabbalah, Da’at. Da’at is not a sefirot. In essence, the Land of Shouldn’t Be-Couldn’t Be is basically a scarp heap heap of the possibilities and impossibilities that could/couldn’t and should/shouldn’t that is not yet set into motion. Like what Al Ewing said, The Land if Shouldn’t Be Couldn’t Be is based the concept of abyss in the occult belief of Thelema. In addition, the Queen of Nevers is not intrinsically connected to the Land of Shouldn’t Be-Couldn’t Be. She is the embodiment of the 4th Cosmos who just happened to made her residence in that place. It is not the same way as TOAA is connected to HOI and the PF is connected to the WHR.

[@woodrobin]

@@nabilhuzir2066 Wrong on more than one count. The Queen of Nevers (aka the True Believer and the Pilgrim, the one who Journeys Into Mystery, and the Sentience of the Fourth Cosmos) resides in a place called Outside. Within the Outside are many realms, including the Land of Can-Be-Shall-Be (wherein all narrative exists) and its dark mirror, the Land of Couldn't-Be-Shouldn't-Be, where no stories are told and no true narrative exists. The White Hot Room, where possibility transitions into actuality and vice versa, also is part of the Outside, as is Overspace (where conceptual entities meet and interact -- if you've ever seen one of those cosmic tribunals where Galactus, Lord Order, Master Chaos, etc show up to discuss some major threat to the cosmos, that meeting was held in Overspace), and the House of Ideas (where pure ideas flow into the One Above All, who weaves them into possibilities, which flow into the Queen of Nevers as unmanifested possibility, then into the White Hot Room to become manifested realities). The Far Shore is the part of the Outside nearest the Multiverse, where those concepts and entities that have passed beyond existence may wait and heal and re-emerge, or decide to pass further into the Mystery. The Land of Couldn't-Be-Shouldn't-Be is (at the moment) solely inhabited by Glorian, who hid there from the end of the Seventh Cosmos, after trying to usurp Multiversal rebirth and become the Eternity-equivalent of the Eighth Cosmos. By so doing, he placed himself outside of the realm of narrative, and he has not yet gathered up the courage or humility to re-enter causality by submitting himself to the flow of narrative. As a being with motive and desire, he is a kind of cancer within the Land, because by its nature it is and should be a place where nothing happens and no stories are told. Defenders Beyond had an issue where he tried to kidnap the Defenders and manipulate them into giving him the power he needed (via the Eternity Mask) to re-enter causality as the storyteller instead of as part of the story.

[@nabilhuzir2066]

@woodrobin bruh you didn't even debunked the notion that the land that couldn't be shouldn't be is above the white hot room , all you did was give a summary ilof their respective mechanics and how they work in the cosmology like yeah I know how they work but the fact that the defenders goes to the the land that couldn't be shouldn't be after exiting the white hot room and after that the house of ideas is my point that the white hot room is a realm below it

[@fishnewt1331]

I personally would argue Phoenix equal to Oblivion, if not higher than it. It was stated to be the assurance of rebirth from non-existence and when it was effectively killed recently, it didn’t necessarily die. Rather it was more stuck in a state of inactivity and confusion. After it was fully destroyed, it became reborn again. There are also statements by the Phoenix that everything lives because it chooses to live. So long as it does not give in, then existence will continue. That would mean it is effectively defying Oblivion constantly to maintain existence.

[@fostercare3109]

Finally some phoenix love

[@Character-Explained]

I don't believe Oblivion is below the Phoenix force, as Oblivion is the Pralaya, God unmanifest unconscious, older and just as powerful as God. Even in the classic Iceman comic, Oblivion stated everything, every being, no matter their creator, no matter their world, in the end they are all part of Oblivion's infinite being, the everything and the nothing.

[@rodriguez_erick1996]

The pheonix will fall to oblivion, the phoenix is weak 😭😭 the phoenix can die permanently, it fears the cycle of death and rebirth being broken. The pheonix operates under death and rebirth, it is verbatim called the shepherd of it and functions in expressing the concept of life and death throughout the multi, it is not a concept it merely embodies concepts which inherently place it below these abstracts concepts, oblivion is the concept of nothingness/darkness

[@tylera1352]

@@Character-Explainedas of now with the current eight cosmos as in the current run of the marvel multiverse oblivion and the living tribunal are equals power and hierarchy wise. They are placed above eternity and infinity. Living tribunal being TOAA judgment of the entire multiverse and Oblivion being the embodiment of the void which exists before the multiverse was created and will return to once the multiverse is no more. Phoenix force though is by quote the spark that ignites creation and the flame that consumes it. As well Phoenix force was stated by the watched to be the one primordial force second to the TOAA. So yes you can put the phoenix force within the same realm of oblivion and the living tribunal.

[@WhitePhoenixJean]

@@Character-Explained If Oblivion were truly stronger than the Phoenix Force, it would be able to prevent the Phoenix from rebirthing itself - but it cannot. The very fact that the Phoenix Force continuously regenerates and returns shows that it operates on a cosmic level that is beyond Oblivion's passive concept of non-existence. Oblivion represents the end, the absence of all things, but the Phoenix Force represents the cycle of life, the eternal process of creation, destruction, and renewal. Rebirth is intrinsic to the Phoenix Force’s nature, and this regenerative power is a clear sign that, despite Oblivion’s representation of cessation, the Phoenix is stronger - it transcends the void and continues to remake the universe, ensuring that life and creation always find a way to return.

[@Just_Some_Guy_with_a_Mustache]

I feel like Hickman and Ewing are either tag-teaming or getting into an arm wrestle with Marvel's cosmology as the battlefield.

[@user-vc3wx5el3z]

tag team

[@tithannisk7470]

Hickman is Lord Chaos and Ewing is Master Order, and they're playing chess on a cosmic level.

[@lucasbatista9369]

Hickmann invents, Ewing adds depth, and then they trade

[@Jaymastia]

Hickman defining X-Men was gold. I admire the man. I like structures. And he delivered. He should handle the Cosmo, please.

[@ayomthe17th]

You're mistaken Rob. The far shore is basically Marvel's equivalent of the source wall which covers the entire Multiverse. Beyond the Far shore is outside, and in the outside, which is the mystery. you have the Beyond realm, the white hot room, the land of couldn't be shouldn't be and the house of ideas

[@visionary4787]

Absolutely loved this deep dive into the Marvel Cosmic hierarchy! It's fascinating how the landscape has evolved, especially with characters like Franklin Richards and the Phoenix Force being pushed to the forefront. The idea that the Phoenix embodies all life across the multiverse is mind-blowing! I mean, it’s not just about power; it’s about the essence of existence itself. And the interplay between the Living Tribunal and Oblivion adds such rich layers to the narrative. It’s like a cosmic chess game where every piece has its own story. Can’t wait to see how these dynamics unfold in future arcs! Keep up the great work!

[@Glare469]

Phoenix is The Best 🤩👍🔥

[@Jay_SGE]

That’s always been a misconception because Oblivion has never been stated to be above TOAA. Im really glad Hickman cleared that up. Can’t wait to see what him Ewing and the rest cook up with the Inbetweenwer war or whatever cosmic war they’ve been building to since 2016

[@Tetsujinhanmaa]

Which cosmic war is this? I know they're building up to something things with the multiversal Avengers, but it's been really slow.

[@cheeseburgerfreddy6350]

Yeah that's a misconception created by powerscalers who ignored the marvel handbook guides from long ago, Back then Oblivion was below the LT and equal to Infinity, Eternity and Mistress death.

[@lucasbatista9369]

​@@Tetsujinhanmaawe dunno. might be secret wars 2 with the whole ultimate universe coming into play too

[@tdzbacon3640]

@@Tetsujinhanmaa GODS really builds it up, several cosmic entities/gods are being rewritten by these little boxes. It shows up in the recent thor run too.

[@Tetsujinhanmaa]

@@lucasbatista9369 Actually, a deep dive of the wiki shows that it was the Avengers Assemble run from last year that got finished. The story with the Council of Mephisto's.

[@SuperRONDALE]

Ya know I’m something of a god myself

[@partofthetribe3277]

Me too

[@scorpinok3006]

@SuperRONDALE Well, consider me an atheist because I don't believe in you.

[@charlescampisijr.8065]

Lol

[@Hoopergames]

Oh brother ​@@scorpinok3006

[@NickcappyisLIVE]

You don’t like me lobster?

[@____2080_____]

Although I would not argue with the creativity of both Al Ewing and Jonathan Hickman, it was referenced in the past that the concept of eternity was the total sum of magic in the universe. Of course, things change and concepts are changed, but wanted to drop that in the discussion.

[@____2080_____]

But of course, this channel, and no one else across KZbin would ever mention the creature that killed both Franklin Richards, and Galactus before the start of the ninth cosmos and ended the eighth cosmos: The One Below All possessed Robert Bruce Banner When you’re talking about beings of these powers, there isn’t any alternate reality version of them. It’s the same creature. The same story plays itself out across comics, even if Marvel comics as a publisher won’t ever tell that story again. Is that character on the list? I won’t hold my breath. 7:40

[@____2080_____]

7:48 that did not happen. Look at the immortal Hulk 24 and 25.

[@____2080_____]

Remember when Jim Shooter was power crazy when he created the character called Michael out of Korvac? He was someone who allegedly was like this marquee of death

[@jeremiahsmith7973]

Yeah, I remember that. I felt that concept simplified the character too much.

[@____2080_____]

8:01 yes, they have shut that down. Thank you, Al Ewing for your issue of immortal Hulk #24. And before anyone calls that an alternate reality, the one above all is beyond the Multiverse

[@mrjustinrubin]

Dr. Doom finds a way to top any of these entities.

[@YTSORF]

✊️

[@shadowone01x99]

Suggsverse Cockroach solos.

[@Khaleel85]

Now you you mention it, that is true lol

[@mrdude88]

And somehow Dr Doom keeps losing to Reed Richard even with all that power within his grasps. Dr. Doom’s destiny is his namesake. Doom can never control his destiny.

[@UltimaAzN]

Doom gets meta-narrative powers like GoS Loki. Then, he'll use it to troll Richards for a comic run. Then, he'll drop the powers because he found it beneath him.

[@AifDaimon]

Honestly, I feel like Knull, Chaos King and others like them are all facsimiles of Oblivion with different "specialties"

[@RiceCubeTech]

That would be a great way of doing it. I’d also want to put the void in there too. But Ewing and Hickman are not imaginative imo. Your idea would help condense the cosmology and make it a bit more streamlined.

[@AifDaimon]

@@RiceCubeTech ah yes, The Void.. I forgot about that

[@Oguike100]

Yup, like how DC had the empty hand and it’s fingers i.e Darkside

[@Carmi766]

They were implied to be fragments of The Anti-All.

[@Kaijutopia]

Maybe it's just me, but I loved what Al Ewing did with Galactus. Bring back the Lifebringer!

[@awaisahmed9418]

I love Marvel Cosmic stuff. Great Vid Rob

[@EmoEmu]

The four siblings are on the same level. Eternity & Infinity + Death & Oblivion. They are the 4 equal parts of all that is the Multiverse.

[@Alex-jd2yx]

Eternity and infinity are the strongest amd equals though, Eternity also being the chieftain in all situations

[@blueberryskyline]

As soon as you mentioned Franklin... Me: "I bet him bringing back Galactus makes an appearance."😊 Rob did not disappoint. He loves that moment 😂

[@joshuaa7223]

Finally another hierarchy video these are my favorite.

[@Anonymous-ee7si]

Bro has beef with The Phoenix …. Every single feat you didn’t like: “uh I actually disagree with that.” “Uh I actually disagree with that.” Lmao. If it is truly the sum total of life (or even psionic energy) that shall ever, currently, and has existed… it’s in the right spot. As it should be. It’s appeared even in Wildstorm comics… it’s an omniversal entity. And has defeated Enigma to boot. All of these characters have received buffs time and time again… not just Phoenix. Also, I wouldn’t put Loki above One Above All. I just don’t see it. His power seems to be reality warping, and yet he’s not actually doing much warping in the first place- in fact, his powers are kind of confusing anyway.

[@parklifenerds]

Me thinking Rob should cover the updated Marvel cosmic hierarchy… the next day my wish is granted….. life is good

[@Nomadmandude]

I really don't like that the Living Tribunal can be triumphed over... it makes him completely useless.

[@tholla2]

I like how everyone, including this channel, has just agreed to forget that Ulysees from Civil War 2 ascended to a cosmic level entity representing Time

[@MrWhiteRabbitt]

I know it's arguable, but I absolutely agree with your #1 pick. Controlling a soft-break of the 4th wall like that is insane compared to everything else.

[@cleanserenewithanautismbeam]

Doesn't wiccan do this when he observes all the comics universes?

[@TheNinjaBees]

I think this is the consequence of Marvel never doing a true reset/reboot like DC does every decade or so. There’s too many important cosmic figures these days that either become obsolete or boosted to “Beyonder” levels of power that make it hard to build tension. Hickman’s 2015 Secret Wars was so close to hitting the perfect reset

[@Jaymastia]

I need more Hickman. 🎉

[@jdrobin1]

I hope all of the Scarlett Witch fans watched this video in its entirety. The Phoenix smokes her and it's not even close.

[@Raii_Chu]

what if scarlet witch becomes the phoenix host?

[@jonadol]

@@Raii_Chushe can’t handle it mentally

[@Shadowcat561]

​@@Raii_ChuOnly a psychic can become her host I guess and wanda has chaos magic so it would be difficult for her

[@phineassss4901]

Say that again once Jean proves that she can survive from the Griever.

[@Shadowcat561]

@@phineassss4901 He is not talking about jean he is tallking about pheonix force

[@fabiomgm1293]

I don't think Doctor Strange is including Galactus when he said "nobody".

[@VoatGOAT]

The Galactus that consumed Dorkmammu in his own realm is the REAL, non-jobber Galactus.

[@griimey7787]

True but the Galactus that destroyed the Marvel universe singlehanded in the recent Doctor Doom comic is also up there

[@Tecnofanbooy]

galactus has never jobbed to anyone. it's you that don't read comics to get any context to why he loses sometimes that are always quick to join the bandwagon of the galactus is a jobber club. read the damn comics, he has never lost to anyone he isn't supposed to lose to without context SMH

[@VoatGOAT]

@@Tecnofanbooy That's a fair point, my guy. I've been reading comics for 38 years but maybe I can explain where I'm coming from with it. You're technically correct in your assertion but there's two sides of the coin here: 1. Writers have to make a story and the general template is that, in the end, the hero must prevail. Yes, there are reasons why he's been thwarted and defeated by lesser beings. Nobody finds an invincible foe interesting. 2. I'm old school. When I talk about Galactus, I'm talking about the canon that Lee and Kirby created and intended. OG Galactus was created to be the prototypical "God" level entity and threat, only thwarted by a bargain and the threat of his own weapon being used against him (ultimate nullifier, which is a part of himself capable of destroying pretty much the entire universe). I understand the needful expansion of the Marvel Cosmic Hierarchy. Marvel is in the storytelling/money-making business and lore is crucial. I also understand the potential need for retcons in order to keep things mixed up and interesting (sometimes). One I like myself is Lifebringer. I thought that was a nice twist. I tend to look at things logically, perhaps to a fault, but I'm an originist. A lot of readers are and not all change is necessarily good or sensical.

[@angeljohnson2433]

White phoenix is stated to now be well above oblivion and the living tribunal. It’s said to be on par with the one above all

[@UnendingChaos-k8j]

SECOND TO TOAA not on par

[@GlobalWave1]

It’s all so confusing and ridiculous at this point because writers keep creating ridiculous characters that go on top of each other. I like the original beyonders and TOAA and anything prior than the 2000 before things got out of hand.

[@chonkeboi]

actually? when? how? why?

[@Glare469]

White Phoenix is THE BEST 🤩👍🔥

[@zius2140]

What if The One Above All is just Ice Spice oiled up

[@dniilii]

Gross.

[@rayhansafi7549]

@@dniilii Nah thats fire fr

[@Turtlpwr]

Oh, no thank you.

[@dniilii]

@@rayhansafi7549 eh, I could think of a dozen girls that'd definitely qualify more than Ice Spice but to each his own.

[@ieyasu_koga]

​@@dniilii that's how you know they kids

[@XV-IV]

Given what I'm finding out here and after seeing Doomsday Clock, I think it's time Rob does another video comparing Doctor Manhattan to Marvels hierarchy 👀 JUST A SUGGESTION MAYHAPS Love you Rob 😘

[@Bombay1618]

I don't know how the Phoenix Force isn't number one. It is the sum of all energy that has been, currently is, and ever will be. Think about that. Actually think about that; you name any other character who should be stronger, and the Phoenix force has their energy already -- even if it hasn't happened yet. And everyone else's. The problem with the Phoenix Force is that it needs a host to interact with the physical plane. Jean Grey in the White Hot Room was found to be the best conductor of its power, but this doesn't translate to anything close to the PF's true power. The Phoenix is more a concept, like time or space. Yet, it has both time and space (all power from everywhere through all of time itself) built in its definition. This is a totally arbitrary number, but, Jean could only harness maybe 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 percent of the Phoenix Force's power when she was at her peak. Yet, for some reason, this Force of incomprehensible power is impressed when a little girl prevents her dying friend from moving on for a split second. Why? Why does it care? Does it want to be corporeal? Did it, in fact, once have a body? I wish Marvel would do something on the origin of the Phoenix Force.

[@Bombay1618]

I am not saying anyone who has ever possessed the Phoenix should be number one. I am saying the Force itself should be number one. That, or, it should just not be on the list. It's almost more of a concept than a character. Yet, it reaches out to Jean in Phoenix Resurrection, which yes, I know was a one-off, but so was the Marquis of Death in Marvel 1985 #2! I don't know how you keep it all succinct and put together, Rob. Love your videos!

[@NTTofMistery]

@@Bombay1618 i dont think phoenix covers other verses. i think somewhere some writers where sayin they use multiverse andd omniverse interchangeably. this signifficantly reduces it already as its only marvel, and not all of fiction like rob wants to claim. still high up on the list but the placement makes alot more sense like this. add to that what you said about even jean not being able to channel a sufficient amount of its power, and placement based on feats make even more sense. lastlyy TOAA as the one who created the phoenix force can really be the only one above it.

[@Bombay1618]

​ @NTTofMistery Because someone using 100% of the power of all of the power that is, was, and will be, across the omniverse, that entity is of "infinity plus one" strength. Name your contender, and their power is still just a part of the Phoenix Force's power. Apparently The White Phoenix of the Crown is able to use 100% of the Phoenix Force's power. This was in an Explained video five years ago. If that's true, then either: 1) Jean chose to not use 100% of its power, or maybe just couldn't due to physical or mental stresses. 2) The White Phoenix of the Crown is able to use 100% of the power that the Phoenix Force *allows* *the* *host* to use. 3) A great percentage of The Phoenix Force's power is lost due to time, or space, or something else in being a conduit. 4) The information that the characters as well as the reader got about A WPoTC being able to use 100% of the Phoenix's power was wrong. Or 5) The writers can't agree. It's probably a mix of all or some of them.

[@WhitePhoenixJean]

It's already stated that the Phoenix Force is second to TOAA. and i will standby that. it has not been retconned.

[@Glare469]

​@@WhitePhoenixJeanYES!! 🤩👍🔥

[@NabirMiah]

Doesn’t God of Stories Loki create the story? Isn’t that the whole point of them, they control the narrative of the story? It was never mentioned in your Defenders Beyond video but it was GoS Loki who orchestrated the whole thing, and then they got the Eternity Mask which gives them power equal to everything even outside of the multiverse (since when America Chavez had it she managed to fight against the Beyonder and The Phoenix). Imo GoS Loki is “doing nothing” since their goal isn’t to engage in the action but rewrite the stories by changing status quo’s. GoS Loki at this point has gone beyond action and is simply involved in creation. I agree that it’s obviously up to however the writers want the story to end, but that’s the case with every character on this list lol

[@mrjayz94]

Blue Marvel literally says that TOAA could destroy them all with a word if he was angry, so Loki was never on TOAA’s level, it’s just a misinterpretation on Rob’s part.

[@CurveBall-n9j]

Bro I just saw Galactus one shot the entire Celestial race and had 3 Molecule Men as heralds. This version was insane and ruthless ✅

[@EgyptCraft-ky7bj]

Huhhh!? Where and when eas this sounds badass

[@CurveBall-n9j]

@@EgyptCraft-ky7bj Doom One Shot 2024 It was 3-4 months ago Galactus destroys everything

[@T1000-j6d]

At 14:00 minute mark, dude look just like Rob.

[@fa619]

Rob is the real life watcher. Explaining marvel comics while being in the comics. Thought we wouldn't figure you out huh Rob haha.

[@Mikerille]

Hell lords, fear lords, skyfathers, are all the lowest tier. But sometimes certain hell lords are greater, it depends on the individual, there are those on par with those above, for example, even daimon hellstrom has casually stopped a celestial with a last second shield, etc. etc. knull and the other kings in black are equal to the beyonders as well.

[@JustDoingReviews]

Question where is people like Glorian and the Queen of Nevers as they reside at the edge of reality and Glorian is basically the guy for couldn’t be shouldn’t be and Queen of Nevers as the incarnation of Can be Shall be which is every possible idea.

[@larslornothfloki5998]

I think the Marques of Death should be higher, given that he literally used cosmic entities to play insane game of "chess". But I get the reasoning based on his death, which I still think was done in as Rob says "A hand wavey way"

[@chaleywaley]

Ah man rob!! So my question is!! What about that female Maranda?? A living editor!! You said with Loki he can’t stop the editor? But she is the editor!

[@Igivegdparent]

Good question

[@iradhill81]

Truly my favorite comic youtuber. Keep up the good work.

[@Superbeast-mm7nr]

Bit of an outlier but what about the Galactus that had not one but two molecule men as heralds in the Dr Doom anual earlier this year. Doubt we will ever see that version of him again but still cool none the less

[@partofthetribe3277]

These are my favorite kind of videos. Awesome video Rob

[@Stonecoldkeemaustin]

Rob you’re the GOAT.

[@gallinaesmoking]

In the current venom saga, it was said that kings in black are the opposite force to the beyonders. so the power level of knull is higher than it seems. I think it was said that for each universe there is one beyonder and one king in black. also, the beyonders can control reality but operate from outside the universe, while the kings in black manipulate un-reality but operate inside the universe. They are both operating outside their source of power If you had a king in the black in the void, it should be as powerful as a beyonder, and if you put a beyonder in the void, it should nerf it to the level of what we see knull do. Also we have the one time Knull took a venom from another reality (proving he has multiversal capabilities), the fact that Eddy Brock, as king in black, can push his mind across time and space (a kind of fourth dimension awarnes), and then we have The Eventuality, a king in black at its most with near omniscience and allpower. This tells us that kings in black are way more powerful that they show us, but they are nerfed by design of the cosmic balance.

[@vincegray7206]

Franklin was always KILLED by the Mad Celestials, until he gave Galactus his power. So you kinda got that wrong, against 3/4 Celestials, Franklin always lost.🤷🏽‍♂️ But you’ve got him ranked HIGHER than them.🤷🏽‍♂️🤔

[@longgwaylonggwayysmith831]

What comic is it that mad celestials killed Franklin?

[@samueldimmock694]

He loses to 3 or 4, therefore he has less power than one. Not how math works. I could see him being above the Celestials, but not by much, especially if we assume that the Celestials are better at using their powers than he is (they are far, far older, after all).

[@__init__]

It makes sense to me that characters more powerful than the one above all could exist. I think of it as him taking power from the house of ideas and using that to create the multiverse / story, but he doesn’t necessarily have total control of what he has created. For example, I’m sure the OAA could end or completely change the entire multiverse but he couldn’t make it so that the entire multiverse never existed across all time. So entities that have accumulated energy he put out and exist outside of normal reality like the dominions, enigma, or thanos that one time, could have greater power. And I can see Loki having arguably greater power by pulling directly from the house of ideas source which the OAA draws from.

[@clickedit8316]

Unleash the cosmic hulk...

[@blairbrown4812]

The Phoenix Force is essentially a big, sentient sun that can take the shape of a large, fiery raptor in its physical form. It is a multiversal entity that is responsible for the creation of life everywhere it goes. It can rewrite the entire history of the universe without any consequence. Frankly,it's a crime that it's not higher on this list.

[@jiffypoo5029]

I'm surprised you didn't include Wanda. Wanda can banish the Phoenix Force, rewrite reality and recreate the multiverse. She cannot be truly killed, she just resurrects whenever she feels like being alive again. Wanda has even overpowered and replaced Elder God Chthon.

[@dniilii]

Can she actually banish the Pheonix Force? Like, y'know, the Outerversal Source of Life, Fire, and Psionic energy and multiversal constant? Cz wow, that's very impressive. (Or am I over hyping the Force?🤔) Eh, whatever still impressive.

[@JinxMadness]

You must be new here?! Well documented Rob doesn’t care for anything Wanda related no matter how interesting or implications that may unfold.

[@trehubb6144]

She also received a recent power up. She was revealed to be the ultimate Nexus Being over the Multiverse. Also was explained Nexus beings are essentially Avatars for the Never Queen. Beings like Odin were also revealed to be Nexus beings

[@jiffypoo5029]

@@dniilii Wanda casts "No More Pheonix" in Avengers vs X-Men #12. The Pheonix Force was banished for about 3 years.

[@Gaberille]

He’s bias asf when it comes to Wanda

[@hermanjohnson9180]

The Phoenix attempts to fix dysfunction in the multiverse. Often at a mortal's peril. The Phoenix is godmoding. And it's quite intentional.

[@chocolatebear246]

The "Aspirins" 😂

[@oxfanblink4115]

Would love to see in the future if his blooper he left in inspires marvel to actually put in a bottle of aspirin in a story somewhere which makes anyone who takes from it cosmically powerful like galactus or the celestials 😂

[@raistlinmajere5550]

I LOVE how they drew Oblivion in G.O.D.S. so much

[@Mr_Robotts]

He kinda looked like the bum that Access becomes in the future

[@sdgdc]

Earth and all its heroes potentially getting destroyed a hundred times over... hmmm... whats not to like😅

[@confuzed6]

One thing I have always thought forgotten, The Great Beasts from Alpha Flight (Canada). Those plus the villains like Pestilence, Dream Queen, Nightmare, and the like just seem shoved off to the side.

[@georgesandoval307]

Thank you explaining this, lord knows i want gonan read that G.O.D.S. run☠️🤣

[@TopNoTchVSOP]

The Lost One aka Cal’Horra, also changed that cosmic landscape too,the one who the Beyonders race got a fraction of their omnipotent powers from him. Got to also throw in Knull as well.

[@THELYRICALTMAN]

YEEEEESSSSS, COSMIC MARVEL STUFF!!!!

[@DCMarvelMultiverse]

All this video proved us how much Marvel and DC are essentially the same now.

[@AdamVerdejo]

Think about it. Phoenix has MULTI-UNIVERSAL power and OMMI-VERSAL power. It has to be in the top three ....nuff said😊

[@Raffi.Sabghir8]

I have a series idea: A Biography Of series. The idea is that Rob gives us the biography, comic legacy, and any cultural impact, of an individual within the comic industry, who are retired in some way or has died. Such as Jack Kirby and Joe Simon.

[@akumasrage-ot6ik]

I just want to see the return of the chaos king and protege. 😔😔

[@TheAnkerstjerne]

@Comics Explained... How many hours, went into this? Thanks for sharing. Also like many others have pointed out this channel is so major for understanding.

[@trehubb6144]

I love Lore like this ❤ Scarlet Witch Comic has some good recent commentary on Nexus being. Basically they're avatars for the Never Queen to use against her Sister. Odin also being revealed to be a nexus Being was dope in that comic💯. Anyways it was revealed that Wanda via teaming up with her Twin Peitro could become a higher form of a nexus being. One that would reign supreme over the entire Multiverse.

[@jfoster8624]

The Wanda wank recently has been insane

[@Igivegdparent]

See this type of stuff always confuses when they say reign Supreme over multiverse or thr universe do they mean over just the heroes and villains or even above The cosmic hierarchy?

[@phineassss4901]

​@@Igivegdparent reigning supreme wasn't mentioned at all in that comic. The Neverqueen only revealed that Wanda is destined to be the ultimate nexus being, and she also confirmed that primordial chaos is canon. Wanda and her brother were also revealed to possess the red queen hypothesis, which describes their limitless potential (The Griever specifically referred to Wanda as a cancer).

[@Igivegdparent]

@@phineassss4901 wow ok thankyiu for the info Might have to read this story myself lol

[@vandayum]

But you didn’t mention that Phoenix is canon 2nd only to TOAA. Phoenix just rebirth defeating Egnima represented that power. Also on beyond defenders you see ToAA draw the tree of life and added 2 additional segments to the middle. These additional pieces represent TOBA and Phoenix. Also decades ago we the living tribunal just watching the Phoenix. He doesn’t judge her bc she is beyond his judgement. Another thing we see years ago is Rachel summers letting the beyonder experience what it means to harness the power of Phoenix and he crawls into the fetal position. He later states in beyonder defenders he is nothing compared to Phoenix. I think we haven’t seen much of Phoenix actual lore is bc marvel wasn’t ready to give their “deus ex machina” a limitations. This new Phoenix jean series we have will give us some more insight to just how powerful Phoenix really is in a mortal’s hand. It also will show Jean’s struggle to try to change the perception everyone in the universe sees in the Phoenix and try to give them a reason to love her instead of fearing her

[@markvazquez7348]

Where in defenders beyond are there two extra spots? I’m a phoenix lover and I’d love to find that :) could you maybe give the page number or something? All I see is that the tree of life has the correct amount of spots

[@D_Beef]

Rob the goat in the comics world

[@sba6082]

Thank you so much for making this itss so confusing everytime everybody is like the STRONGEST

[@callmestorm23]

4 more beings I'd like to add is The Mother Of Horrors, True Form Thanos, Lifebringer One and the Anti-All. The Anti-All and Lifebringer One are beings from the 3rd Cosmos, representing the opposite to each other. Lifebringer One represented as the first Sentry, while the Anti-All was the first Void. The Mother Of Horrors is the arch enemy of The One Above All/One Below All. She's basically the reason why Hell Lords, Fear Lords and any other dark and powerful monstrosities exist in Marvel. They're all connected to her. As for True Form Thanos, he exists in a different plane of existence and watches over all of creation like a simulation. Basically the universe is just a simulation and that all of creation belongs to Thanos. What's really going on is that everyone in existence is being tortured by True Form Thanos. It's stated that Thanos has already won and that all was Thanos, all is Thanos and all will forever be Thanos. Darkseid eat your heart out.

[@TegaOruma]

God damn marvel is really doubling down on copying darkseid

[@TegaOruma]

God damn marvel is really doubling down on copying darkseid

[@callmestorm23]

@@TegaOruma It appears to me that True Form Thanos is more powerful than the version of Thanos that got the Astral Regulator and absorbed all the cosmic entities in his reality (including the Living Tribunal and the One Above All's avatar form)

[@callmestorm23]

@@TegaOruma I'd say that True Form Thanos is above True Form Darkseid. Because True Form Darkseid existed outside of the DC Multiverse, while True Form Thanos looks like he exists beyond Marvel's Omniverse and watches all of creation like a Matrix simulation

[@TegaOruma]

@@callmestorm23 I didn't say Thanos was weaker, I said marvel was doubling on copying DC and the entire concept of darkseid and it has not been confirmed that he exist out the omniverse. Just that he exist outside the multiverse like darkseid

[@matthewschwartz6607]

Thanks for doing this , Rob. You really went over everything , and you cleared some things up for me. I wish that Gods went on for longer. From what I read, it was supposed to be twelve issues . I would have LOOOVED to have seen more of Oblivion, The LT, etc! I think that Hickman had more plans for them . Too bad .

[@BigaloMax]

13:07 wait shouldn't it be the Uni power/captain universe Next?

[@i_am_Oblivion]

Yes

[@gregariuss]

I’ve been looking forward to a new marvel hierarchy from you in years. You’re right about it being more difficult to catalogue now. Hickman gone and done it 😂

[@StormTheeOmega]

You put enigma above phoenix even tho Phoenix beat enigma ….. how that work💀

[@griimey7787]

Yeah but even he said it was weird that the Phoenix could beat it given how they hyped up the Enigma

[@mr.googoopants3581]

It is not the first time there are inconsistencies for his posts. He place LT above beings who are confirmed to be above Multiversal when LT itself was never mentioned or described to be beyond the multiverse. In fact, LT has been killed by just 3 Beyonders whom he placed much lower in the list. I believe he did that just to wank up Oblivion again as #2 because it has been confirmed that Oblivion is the opposing of LT, and he cannot place LT far lower because it means he also had to place Oblivion lower.

[@OctavioHernandez-jk1nb]

​@griimey7787 an opinion when the comics themselves have stated that Dominions are weaker against Abstract Entities.

[@StormTheeOmega]

@@OctavioHernandez-jk1nb o they did? I thought they were far beyond abstract entities but even if they were beyond them they still shouldn’t be higher than phoenix on the simple fact that 1 she literally beat one,2 beat so bad that the other dominions was like “nah we good you got it sinister”😂 Rob just did not want to place phoenix in 2nd and first place cuz it’d mean mean placing Jean up there as well. Like how tf is Loki up there when it was confirmed in that very same ultimates book that whcPhoenix was above them all🥴

[@mrjayz94]

Loki and Enigma were NEVER on TOAA’s level, Rob just completely misinterpreted Defenders: Beyond. Loki: Blue Marvel literally says that TOAA could destroy them all with a word if he was angry. Enigma: Blue Marvel asks TOAA two lines of questioning. First line of questioning: "Are you really the one above all? Above even your creators, is there and can there be a final guiding hand?". TOAA says “the mystery intrigues me". This is nothing to do with Enigma; it’s alluding to the writers/editors above Marvel as the car’s numberplate outside the house of ideas has the initials of Stan Lee and Jack Kirby. The second line of questioning is BM needing to see the face of Eternity’s enemy as that was the mission Eternity gave him. With BM’s first question, TOAA didn’t know, but here TOAA knows EXACTLY who BM is referring to and shows them Enigma. While knowing about Enigma, TOAA literally calls himself all-powerful. BM: “If "above all" is the limit of our understanding, there's still something beyond that limit. And that's the mission Eternity gave us. To see the face of Eternity's enemy". Eternity in issue 1: “At the furthest point, you will see the face of my enemy! Seek the higher knowledge!". They reached the furthest point that they can (above all), but there was still higher knowledge that they needed, which TOAA provides. TOAA shows them Enigma but translates it to a size that their minds can hold as Enigma is vast human-level thought and formed of trillions of consciousnesses. They don’t have the mental capacity to fully perceive Enigma and perceiving too much is bad as can be seen with Destiny in X-Men Forever issue 1. Similarly, in Defenders: Beyond issue 2, Beyonder had to project himself in a form that the Defenders could understand as “infinite beings cannot be perceived by finite minds”. Yet Beyonder is an inferior being to TOAA. Enigma was never above TOAA in power, proven by the conclusion of Rise of the Powers of X where Enigma is beaten by Phoenix, an inferior being to TOAA.

[@kimeraevent]

G.O.D.S has been one of the best reads from Marvel since House of X/Powers of X. It is a culmination of Hickman's work at Marvel and it has so many callbacks and hidden explanations for things he did and it really makes the book enjoyable. As do the characters; Dmitri's issue was so heartbreaking.

[@droskie5]

where's Oshtur, Gaia, and Atum Ra? We also saw Monica warp multiple realities and Jean soloed Dominion so she should be higher??

[@yoyomayne]

Chthon is the most powerful elder God and he'd be here far before Gaia, Jean needed help from like every mutant ever lol and Monica rambeau probably should be here tbh

[@droskie5]

@@yoyomayne Chthon more powerful than Gaia? I don't think so. He's more menacing but that doesn't mean he's more powerful

[@yoyomayne]

@@droskie5 he has always been. It's been stated that Chthon is the most powerful of the elder gods

[@droskie5]

@@yoyomayne writers say stuff all the time. Gaia birthed Atum, who devoured elder gods and chased seth and Cthon outta this realm. But according to the same writers, the child of a god only inherits half of their parents power, so Atum with half of Gaia's power was a bigger threat to Chthon. In fact, according to marvel, Gaia and Oshtur are so powerful they can't exist in this realm without destroying it.

[@deeqhassan5810]

​@@yoyomayneso she basically used her power even before the Rotpox it was still consistent that all creation are part of phoenix and especially mutants

[@freydawg56]

Thanks for the content Rob. I like when you tell us something.

[@HolyHadou]

So Knull just misses his old roommate Oblivion? Wait is Meridius or the final Eddie on Knull's level? Aren't they anti Beyonders or did I remember that wrong?

[@EgyptCraft-ky7bj]

^ People seem to forget that Knull not only rejected the duties as King in Black but was imprisoned for lord knows how long. He didnt get to reach the full potential of "King in Black" is how i understand it I beleive the eventuality explains this to Eddie Brock when he asked it his 3 or five questions.

[@HolyHadou]

@@EgyptCraft-ky7bj I'm still not fully understanding Knull's anything considering he seemed to just wake up in the void annoyed that the Celestials were working and chose violence w/o any provocation. But thanks for the intel.

[@samueldimmock694]

@@HolyHadou Yeah, that's basically it. The Celestials started their work, asked Knull to help, and he decided he'd rather kill them all and destroy everything they'd ever made so he could go back to the peace and quiet of the endless void. As a result of this, he never learned how to time travel, thus greatly limiting his power.

[@letemknowdae]

Man I’m hype for this, the last cosmic power hierarchy was 3 years ago can’t wait to see this years iteration🤟🏾💫

[@bezzyboy6]

Marvel hierarchy is a damn joke now. They’ll just create a story and give a random character insane power for no reason at all. Like Franklin or Kevin Beshear lol

[@Coeussamoht]

I mean Franklin is not really random if you read his origins

[@NuwandaLunaDragon]

let's not pretend like it was any other way anywhere never They're just stories, a dude wants to write a cool entity and they just place them somewhere in the scale without caring a drop of ink about other writers and it's fine, a complex, functional and consistent cosmic hierarchy adds nothing

[@drakethesnake4592]

That's bait, people. Chill.

[@1gericular2]

Hey Rob, what about The Custodian of the Multiverse? If they have the ability to support the multiverse, surely they could just let the multiverse fall into oblivion whenever they want

[@tkthebeyonder6714]

So many wrong things you stated. The beyonders are above Omniversal Eternity, the First Fermament and all the other 7 Eternities, because as shown in Defenders Beyond The beyonders exist in the farshore on higher realm than the Omniverse itself. Molecule Man also has been shown holding the entire omniverse in a box. Also The god of stories Loki is not that high in the list, he couldn't confine a beyonder within a panel story, the beyonder freed himself easily. Even if we over estimate his power he would barely stand on the level of Couldn't-Be Shouldn't-Be realm where stories end, and that's a realm below the Queen of Nevers which you completely forgot about. And i don't know where the Oblivion w@nk!ng come from, he barely stand on equal footing with Omniversal Eternity, there is ZERO proof of him being more powerful than Beyonders, Phoenix, The never Queen or any other character existing in the farshore beyond the omniverse

[@mrjayz94]

Also Blue Marvel literally said that TOAA can destroy them all with a word if he was angry, so yeah Loki is nowhere near that high.

[@yegor576]

This guy bad at power scaling, but anyway marvel cosmology rly stupid sometimes

[@SapphireMan08]

Rob, would you ever consider using the yourube chapters feature for videos like this?

[@RahulGupta-cn2hh]

One above all God of stories loki Oblivion, the living tribunal ( full authority ) Phoenix force , enigma force Cal-horra The first filament, Beyonder & molecule man Multi - Eternity, the never queen, Griever at the End of All Things True infinity & death black winter & chaos king Marquee of death, shuma gorath Sise - neg & Multiversal nexus being scarlet witch Full potential Franklin richards & mad jim jaspers Infinity gauntlet user Cosmic abstracts M-Bodies Full power knull Galactus & celestials Supreme inter dimensional beings - cytorakk & dormammu / elder gods - chtthon & demiurge Higher Sky fathers :- Odin & zeus Hell lords & fear lords :- mephisto & nightmare Typical gods / thanos like beings Elders of the universe / heralds of galactus Typical Omega level mutants Alpha level mutants Super humans Peak humans Humans

[@Zorosomething]

Love your videos

[@resulnaki]

You're completely wrong about the Phoenix. In fact, Phoenix was originally the second most powerful (even you explain the omniversal aspect) after tooa, but they kept messing it around in the 2000s. Finally, last few years they re-established Phoenix's place in the hierarchy. Also, you're wrong about Phoenix being below oblivion and LT. Phoenix is omniversal, omniscient, omnipresent and nigh omnipotent, and it's definitely more powerful than those 2 beings. Phoenix literally sparked the creation and will ultimately consume all. Marvel can exist with oblivion and lt, but it can't exist without the Phoenix. Also, Phoenix did save the multiverse from existence in the Phoenix saga before all the crazy multiverse stuff, stupid cosmic beings started popping up all over, contradictory to your statement of Phoenix not doing anything big.

[@Cody-tc5zh]

No its not as strong as the rest of them

[@resulnaki]

@@Cody-tc5zh it's actually stronger than the rest of them.

[@Glare469]

Agree with you 🙏

[@Weirzbowski]

Galactic!

[@longgwaylonggwayysmith831]

the guy in the comic @13:57-13:58 who mentions dazzler with the drink in his hand reading a comic Looks like rob to me lol

[@FactionintheBrick]

Galactic VS the 13 Primes

[@VoatGOAT]

Depends on which nitwit is writing but I'd say...Galctus. I'm not talking jobber Galactus but the big G that consumed Dormommu in his own realm. You know, Galactus properly portrayed.

[@turtleanton6539]

​@@VoatGOATyeeeh 😊

[@UltimateSpider1385]

Hickman wrote a lot of information on the Powers that be and the Natural order of things because it gives a bigger understanding of the God hierarchy in Marvel Comics. If you want to include beings like Galactus, Mephisto, the stranger, Mistress Love, Mistress Death, Lord Chaos, Master Order, the Aspirants, the Celestials, the the dweller in darkness, Chaos King, the Phoenix Force, the Living Tribunal, Eternity, Infinity, and the One Above All, you start to see how big the hierarcy is. Plus, you have to focus on Multiversal beings like Mad Jim Jaspers and Franklin Richards.

[@DeathBYDesign666]

God of Stories Loki is absolutely multiverse level and the one in the tv show is 100% meant to be the origin of that character. If you rewatch the last 2 episodes you can see him learning his new godly powers and they drop countless hints that he is "God of Stories". The end of episode 5 he says the line "I can rewrite the story".

[@Wildboyfanz97]

Marvel’s Cosmic landscape is so crazy I wish we had established it better smh

[@pavelmixlove]

Rob you didn’t put Hunger on the list he eats whole reality lol

[@subject8776]

When was Hunger last relevant?

[@gbeverlyjr]

@Rob, can you do a level power understanding about psychic abilities and powers in various forms such as; psychokinesis, telepathy, extrasensory perception, teleportation?

[@pharaohkai1]

Knull's position is questionable! He literally sneaked the first Celestial then used it's power against the others and he has been using Celestial powers every since

[@DPLawlorFilms]

Hey Rob, have you ever interacted at all with Jay and Miles X-plain the X-men? I have been listening to their podcast recently and have followed your channel for several years, both are incredible sources of info. Wanted to know if you guys ever did anything together or did a collab mixo. Keep up the good work man.

[@polketex5043]

TOAA/TOBA is number 1 I think since it's God/Writer. Anti All is probably up there somewhere since he is what Oblivion was thought to be apparently. GoS Loki is a weird to place especially since he's "helping" Thor to look inward took acquire the same power he has to Write the Story and Thor's case calling Wheel of Fate so potentially Thor gonna be up there as well and Loki doesn't really do anything with the power or fans probably overhype it. Enigma is stronger than the Phoenix force I think and Enigma was hyped up to be a new hierarchy of power and maybe stronger than the TOAA/TOBA but it turned out to be nothing. Phoenix force basically got replaced by the Living Tribunal it's seems like since just basically represent the same thing and writers seem to be bias for Phoenix force I've noticed. So GoS Loki Enigma Phoenix force are all on a limbo area with power. Also Knull should be like a True Form Darkseid situation so it makes more sense for everyone.

[@edgargalicia5071]

Lt and the phoenix have nothing in common, Lt is limited to what happens in the multiverse, the phoenix is all creation including him

[@meong9078]

Phoenix is second to toaa. Just accept it

[@deeqhassan5810]

Aren't you embarrassed?

[@The_Vaperion]

@@meong9078it’s not

[@hammerroo558]

Classic COMICS EXPLAINED. Your the best Rob 💪🏿🦍💪🏿

[@THETRUDARKLORD]

Dang where the homie protege at

[@timothyyambing6160]

This is awesome. So glad you revisited this. The cosmic hierarchy is all over the place, it's so hard to tell who is above the rest. All of a sudden I miss the how to beat series from old.

[@VelvetHammerBooking]

I think 2 entities should be added, the Queen of Nevers and Glorian deserves a spot on this list. I'd put them under Oblivion and the Living Tribunal and equal with the Phoenix, just because of what they represents. like the Phoenix and the white hot room, The Queen of Nevers has her own space in the Land of Can-Be-Shall-Be (possibility) and Glorian has the Land of Couldn't-be-shouldn/t-be (the abyss). The Never Queen and Eternity used to bang so that should speak to the level of power she has. Because these 2 are the rulers or these realms I'd definitely add them to the hierarchy.

[@cheeseburgerfreddy6350]

Never queens realm is also higher than the WHR, and the Goblin force and the First fallen both are equal opposites of the Phoenix force.

[@VelvetHammerBooking]

@@cheeseburgerfreddy6350 based on this ranking, then the 2 that I added would be in line with those. And it's only because they have their own realms that I add them as equals to the Phoenix Force. I can't give it higher because That's equal with the Living Tribunal and Oblivion. Or are you saying that they are above the Phoenix and below those 2?

[@cheeseburgerfreddy6350]

@@VelvetHammerBooking I think Never queen and Glorian are above the PF because in defenders beyond, their realms were above the Phoenix's(at least never queen's was).

[@VelvetHammerBooking]

@@cheeseburgerfreddy6350 that's fair. Because they balance each other (as the universe tends to do) i think their spaces are equal. It's hard ranking something above "the sum total of all psychic energy that ever does, has and will exist".

[@mr.googoopants3581]

There is misconception of what the Queen of Nevers and her connection to the Land-of-Shouldn’t-Be-Couldn’t-Be. The Queen of Nevers id actually the 4th Cosmos, known as the “Pilgim” who has been in constant travel across all realms, one of which is the Land-of-Shouldn’t-Be-Couldn’t-Be. Unlike TOAA and the PF who are intrinsically connected to their realms as it is basically part of them, the Queen of Nevers is not the owner of the Land-of-Shouldn’t-Be-Couldn’t-Be, she just made her way into it and dwelled in it, moreso is Glorian. In addition, the higher realms in Defenders Beyond as we all know is based on the Tree of Life and its Sefirots which the Beyond Realm being Malkuth, the WHR as Tiphareth and the HOI as Kether. The Land-of-Shouldn’t-Be-Couldn’t-Be is associated with Da’at and Da’at in the Tree of Life is not actually a sefirot, but is considered mostly as an empty slot, hence why it is also known as The Abyss. The Never Queen made it her home because it fits her nature so much as the embodiment of possibilities her cosmos being the font of the “Archtypes”. To visualize it better, the HOI is the home of the highest creative force, from which everything sprung from, then all possibilities and impossibilities are left in the LoSBCB much like an abyss, the WHR is the blank piece of paper where creativity starts, the then the Beyonders enact and supervise these creations. The Queen of Never on her own is as powerful as any member of the Ultimate Ultimates, probably somewhere in between the likes of Multi-Eternity and The First Firmanent.

[@martimtorres9093]

My ranking, from a cosmological standpoint, would be: 1- The One Above All / The One Below All 2 - Mother of Horrors 3 - White Phoenix of the Crown 4 - Lifebringer One / Anti-All 5 - Queen of Nevers / Griever at the End of All Things 6 - Shadow King 7 - Dominions 8 - Powers That Be / Natural Order of Things 9 - Ivory Kings / King in Black 10 - First Firmament 11 - Oblivion / Living Tribunal 12 - Eternity / Infinity 13 - Master Order, Lord Chaos and the In-Betweener 14- Other Universal Abstracts like Death, Love, Hate, Life, etc. 15 - Celestials / Aspirants 16 - Elder Gods / Skyfathers 17 - Extradimensional Mystical Principalities 18 - Galactus 19 - Elders of the Universe 20 - The Watchers

[@Bob_Reynolds]

That's the thing Chaos King is a little more higher because no one stops him he was destroying the 98 % of the multiverse so they just sent him to a pocket dimensión

[@martimtorres9093]

@@Bob_Reynolds he is bound to Oblivion as he is his offspring so while I get your point, can’t place him much higher.

[@martimtorres9093]

@@Bob_Reynolds also can’t place him higher because that would oblige me to do the same for being like Chthon, Dormammu and Mephisto who have all reached that level,

[@Bob_Reynolds]

@@martimtorres9093 he is higher than those.

[@martimtorres9093]

@@Bob_Reynolds yeah ik, that’s not my point… my point is that even though these beings have been multiversal threats at some point in time, doesn’t mean they are consistently Multi-Eternity level, hence why they’re below Eternity/Infinity.