Commander VS S11E4: Grunn vs Valduk vs Tatyova vs Yargle

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[@kevinlemley5962]

For those asking about the mistake, and because layers are confusing: The 1/1 thing happens in 7B, the counters happen in 7D, so they got that part correct. However, Grunn's ability created a +X/+Y (where X was his power and Y was his toughness *when the ability resolved*, which was 23, I've been informed) ability which would apply in 7C (along with Sylvan Might's +2/+2, which would both apply after Jeremy's spell). So it would be a 1 + 25 + 16 = 42/42.

[@tegg7017]

Kevin Lemley thanks i was confused ^^

[@mmurphy373]

Kevin Lemley you might want to edit this. You forgot the +2/+2 from Sylvan Might and the pump from Grunn's trigger was +23/+23.

[@kevinlemley5962]

Will do. I was going off of memory and the number of counters I saw on Grunn...good catch!

[@Lucarioguild7]

Kevin Lemley Im still confused didn't Jeremy play it after those ablilities resolved before damage?

[@kevinlemley5962]

Yes. So here's what happened, step by step: 1. Parnell, through various green nonsense, controls a 23/23 Grunn. In terms of layers, he's a 5/5 with +2/+2 in layer 7C from Sylvan might and +16/16 in layer 7D from the counters. 2. Parnell attacks with Grunn, alone, which triggers his ability. His ability checks his current P/T, sees that it's 23/23, so creates a static effect in layer 7C that gives himself +23/23. So the layers are currently a 5/5 creature with +25/25 (can't forget Sylvan Might) in layer 7C and +16/16 in layer 7D. 3. Jeremy turns Grunn into a 1/1. Power and toughness setting applies in layer 7B. So when the game goes to calculate Grunn's power it goes: 7b + 7c + 7d = P/T So 1/1 + 25/25 (this is all still in layer 7c) + 16/16 = 42/42 If it helps, think about it this way: Jeremy's spell didn't change Grunn from a 46/46 into a 1/1. It changed him from a 5/5 into a 1/1. All the pumping that made the 5/5 into a 46/46 still exists, and will still apply to 1/1 Grunn (also, please say 1/1 Grunn out loud. It's quite fun).

[@twinkamikaze3524]

I appreciate the momentary break to admit your mistake. That's good on you guys, and might I suggest if you continue to add these breaks you also add the correct ruling stated by the judge to help others in a similar state or so viewers know how it should of been.

[@G.Aaron.Fisher]

Interjecting before the mistake was great, too. I honestly don't have the stomach for MTG rules gore. This gave me the opportunity to cheerily move on to the next week's episode without having to witness whatever horror they created.

[@Relda7]

This video combined what I love about CVS more than any other channel 1. "Warning: The following video contains flashing lights" 2. An entire discussion about Popeye because of the art on the monkey token. 3. Literal interjection into the game informing us how they messed up while not apologizing for it 4. Homunculus fan fiction This is the quality that I look for in this show.

[@Svydnar]

What do you love about Walgreens and Rite Aid? *ba dum tss*

[@marcvanheerden9067]

With you on all your points, I never miss an episode, never

[@williambrink9585]

You forgot "thanos kills Dumbledore"

[@Mors]

I wish we could find out how much Jon really cares about what we think.

[@Marionettetc]

We want Slimefoot! We want Slimefoot!

[@LenoMateusdoNascimento]

But I wanna too, so the most people want, statistically

[@nerothewizard]

*clap clap clap-clap-clap*

[@shawnaustin1037]

I drafted slimefoot in draft and absolutely loved that card. This was a good chance for slimefoot as there are a lot of saprolings AND sac outlets as commons.

[@Marionettetc]

Shawn Austin Hell yeah man, I built a thallid commander deck just because of him. I went real deep too, not just the "good" ones, got proliferates and counter doublers too!

[@Marionettetc]

Zach cash sounds real gross, I love it

[@liamblue9992]

John forgot the tokens have trample as well as haste

[@Peterphonetube]

Only about every time. I'd imagine that you at least read the commander Mr. Suarez! :O

[@wizkida981015]

9 minutes in, and Yargle's come to bargle

[@laviathon10]

wizkida981015 Actual Yargle quote, "Grunnmammu, I've come to bargle."

[@chrash7670]

So glad to see someone else play Valduk, he’s slowly becoming one of my favorite commanders

[@keithzoller4063]

Valduk's 3/1's have trample

[@TheVWarriors]

i really loved the mistake intermission. i hope yall keep doing it, maybe also explain the mistake and how things actually work? but i'll keep watching either way, just a me thing. yall do you

[@michealmuench8606]

Don't the tokens have trample?

[@Grimpo96]

Justin, you’re my number one pick to pilot Slimefoot. Do your thing.

[@JParnell1]

Patience

[@Marionettetc]

Justin Parnell definitely want you to be the one slowly draining out the guys. I built a slimefoot edh deck and I think you have enough thallids and token maker spells to get there!

[@Jeffery8839]

One of the best ones so far

[@TheIhplodur]

Nice Douglas Adams T-Shirt Jeremy.

[@PhazonOmega]

Fblthp is the homunculus from Ravnica from the card named Totally Lost. Also, he's apparently in March of the Multitudes, Statute of Denial, and possibly Unquestioned Authority. For anyone trying to figure out what the name was, or who it was, as I was.

[@Blacturne859]

It would be stephen green playing a card with a name like yargle

[@Small_Panda]

It was on this day in history John didn't read a card as he remembered that haste is good but being sad because it's the first good 3/1 token with haste because they added the as we can see extremely relevant text of TRAMPLE and he forgot the trample at home.

[@ashleyprior6712]

Really enjoyed this episode! Grunn is my next commander. Thinking of a planet of the apes themed deck

[@ToniMayol]

The first thing I noticed is Jermy's cool T-shirt

[@dantebeleren]

Whoop whoop. You guys should play Partners with only the uncommon dual legends of Dominaria. It makes some fun combos

[@matthewcollins6663]

The best of commander vs start with flashing lights

[@nathansheridan6825]

Pauper commander I missed you so much. Great video guys

[@Crimson9578]

They should do the coliseum of random the other uncommon legendary creatures.

[@megaansem]

Every time I see Yargle, I have to think of the LRR Pre-Prelrelease and the Duel of the Fates joke...

[@cameronjackson7443]

Rules interactions aside, great game all around. Really enjoyed this one everyone!!!

[@HazDawwg]

can someone please explain what the problem with the layers and gruns power and toughness was?

[@rickehrgaming3330]

Boy, absolutely no minor mistakes were made in this video. Not a single one. The spike in me is very happy because of tis.

[@liamw.1313]

Rickehr Gaming are you being sarcastic? If yes, fair play. If no, the valduk tokens had trample, but that was ignored/forgotten unfortunately. Jon wasn't attacking Jeremy towards the end because he thought he wouldn't get any damage through the 1/1s, and when he attacked earlier the damage was not calculated correctly (due to not being aware of trample)

[@rickehrgaming3330]

No worries, I was being entirely sarcastic.

[@zurran00]

dont the 3/1 elementals trample?????

[@braddtheodd3390]

Where does the Yargle thing comes from? It's perfect but I don't understand it

[@kingfuzzy2]

Grunn and yargle in the same video count me in ( :

[@superwolf1515]

I have a suggestion for you guys it’s called land letters where you have to build a deck with cards that start with the first letter of either island, swamp, forest, mountain, or plains

[@EvilM0nkeyRules]

I love how whenever its Jeremys turn or he does something Stephen and someone else always talk over him and then go "Wait what"

[@stephengreen1887]

Easily my favorite thing to do

[@CalderaWolf]

it was super nice to add in the break for the mistake... but to be honest im still confused what exactly the mistake was

[@Destorer4444]

Giant "axe" spell. My favorite line forever now

[@antonhangano952]

Can somebody explain me how does it work the rule of "-1 attacking person in last place"

[@leviv168]

anton hangano They get -1 point if the first attack of the game is towards the person in sole possession of last place

[@darbymckilkannoncaid3279]

20:45 I def thought Stephen was saying "phallus of magics"

[@Marionettetc]

Darby McKilkannoncaid he wasn't?! :0

[@tonycole340]

fractured powerstone lmao, digging deep for mana rocks, i love it

[@SageTropian]

Could you maybe add something next to the life totals showing how many cards in hand they have?

[@ultiplayer1]

@SCG Please put the theme of the Commander VS game in the description.

[@zachmayer2288]

You should play where the commander comes with their namesake as a "partner". Like Thassa +Bident of Thassa or gonti+gonti's aether heart, tetsuo umezawa+ jitte.

[@mxg03]

did anyone else notice that the point acrew system board thing was from the one where they all did random decks because it has the +1 if your random deck wins

[@noconaroberts213]

I really badly want to see this specific mash-up, John on Zur control. Stephen on Uril voltron. Justin on Kemba equipment. Jeremy on Wizard tribal. Highly competitive but not busted. Because Zur.

[@airkami]

Is that a Samsung Galaxy S6 Edge+ beside Jonathan's deck?

[@gregrocks1223]

Can someone explain how they screwed up the P/T with Grunn?

[@twinkamikaze3524]

GOOD LUCK on the Homonculus quest! #scoops #teamgreen

[@TigerGuy786]

I have a request: A game where each of you uses one of the Legendary Sorceries from Dominaria as your General. It could be entertaining. If that proves too difficult to make interesting then just a revisit to your non-creature legends idea. That's my favorite episode that you guys have done.

[@jjcc8379]

Were are the decklists? :( EDIT: Oh, it's on star city games website. Still, couldve linked it here >:(

[@SCGCommander]

(Jeremy) We post the video live at 10:30am Eastern here, but the articles don't go live on the website until 11am. We usually try to update the description very shortly after that.

[@ryanking8032]

Anyone else notice that they seemed to forget that Jons elemental tokens had trample as well

[@levimedley9926]

The first time jeremy made Grunn a 1/1 he kept his abilities so wouldnt he still have had double strike and killed Stephen?

[@MsNosis]

I for one like Brawl as a casual multiplayer format. Silly name, "Brawl", but a nice variant of Commander none-the-less, and much more new player friendly.

[@navo6283]

I realize that they pointed out that a mistake was made, but I was wondering what the real outcome of that Grunn attack was. He was a 23/23 attacking with his ability on the stack to double his attack. Jeremy casts Diminish in response, but he didn't state if it was before, or after Grunn's trigger. If it was before, then Grunn would be a 38/38 at the end, if after he would be a 42/42. Regardless, Stephen would have lost to general damage from Grunn, right? Just making sure.

[@Nimoot]

ty for explaining this … It bugged me they did not say what Should have happened with the oops.

[@xquizate8777]

1:21 *clicks like aggressively* "ok hello" shares and watches video.

[@ronniegeddes5072]

I was so thrilled to hear the Popeye discussion.

[@tonyontilt3522]

Awesome shirt Jeremy!

[@SCGCommander]

(Jeremy) Thanks! It's from a great site called Outofprintclothing.com. They have original book cover images on a bunch of items with a few unique designs. Every purchase also helps support literacy programs and book donations to communities in need!

[@Malik1378]

What should have been on the points thing is Jeremy doing the fade away meme.

[@DonovanPresents]

tbh I only saw Infinite War this past Tuesday, the 22nd. Glad no spoilers for me!

[@spyguy4558]

1:09:33 John "I don't regret my bolt" XD

[@arrowsty]

jeremy i love the shirt and im using her as a regular commander

[@like17badgers]

I mean...it's no Elder Yargle Highlander... but it's on it's way there.

[@MutilatedBunny]

Serious question, how do you guys have such balanced decks every time? I think out of all the seasons, I’ve only seen like 5 games that were just blow outs. You all do awesome jobs!

[@Kestral287]

They see each others' lists beforehand and can tweak accordingly.

[@MrFeierkind]

Plus they somewhat fix their starting hands

[@TheIhplodur]

Plus they forget half of the rules of their cards. Jon could have killed the other three if all of them hadn´t forgotten the tample of his token.

[@jean-baptistedelabroise5391]

#t=36m52s is there not a mistake on the damages, he still has the counters and still double its power and thoughness, I would say he is a 34/34

[@notanetdeck5264]

Lol, the day after I watch you guys referencing Thrive, The Crowd Goes Wild is spoiled.

[@warmoven7571]

Stephen Green isn't playing Gruun, the Lonely King?

[@peewee130946]

WarmOven justin isn’t playing yargal

[@lionlanger1804]

You you guys take Deck suggestions?

[@samcrunk]

Love that Jeremy didn't kill Justin or Jon when he had the chance. Those two decisions secured him the win in the long run though they seemed counter intuitive at the time. #prostrats

[@theparadoxmuse_]

Whats the discord invite?

[@jaknels7628]

Suarez you need to play Jodah man. Pretty sure you would build a sweet deck

[@austinfender123]

Can anyone tell me what they mean by "attacking the person in last place"?

[@TsuTsuro]

Each commander vs season they begin with zero points each. After each game they get points for certain things they did during the game. For example: +points for first blood, +points for first place, -points for killing everyone at once, etc. Jeremy right now has the least amount of points this season, so he's in last place.

[@marcobaraldi3637]

I must have clicked the wrong site,here says Voltron city

[@kinkinTheWild]

ikr

[@jantmoen]

"-1 for attacking Person in last Place on (Not Tied)"- Season or in this game? How do you determine who is in last place? It can not be life total during the games because they seem to attack the one with the least amount of life alot.

[@jackscharstein8934]

Jan Terje Moen They just can't attack the person in last in terms of the season points, which is also always the person who goes first.

[@kennethevans8532]

Top 2 in points at end of season should play each other best 2/3 Brawl with decks built by 3rd and 4th

[@mats_psf]

Oh boy, let's go

[@noodlewizard1852]

Suarez diddn't pay commander tax the second time he played his commander

[@gerbenknol9274]

I think he did through Sisay's Ring

[@tbaggins5349]

Oh my god. I love yargle already.

[@millsada]

deck listtts

[@rapples101]

I'm curious if points will be adjusted for the mistake since technically Jeremy didn't actually save Stephen, or if it will be kept as if the game was played legitimately?

[@zachhilliker4766]

I thought he said in the video they will be keeping points as they are

[@rapples101]

Zach Hilliker I must have missed it! Thanks!

[@TheREALGalamineGary]

Where was the rules mistake? I also don't know the first thing about layers.

[@Emperorerror]

Alex double it's power really means it gets +x/+0 where x is it's power. So the effect is still there from the original power

[@DarthSmirnoff]

I'm assuming that Darksteel is a lot like adamantium, in that it only becomes indestructible when it's forged. Until then, you can mold it. I'm now assuming that someone will prove me wrong. #GreenIsGreasy

[@kastormener]

Wow... what's with all the scratchy audio this week?

[@kobisjeruk]

Just Green bumping against his mic

[@leviv168]

What exactly was the mistake with grunn?

[@kylebillings7593]

Hey Jeremy, where did you buy that shirt? I need it in my life.

[@justinkp]

Kyle Billings He replied to someone else saying outofprintclothing.com

[@kylebillings7593]

Justin Postlewaite well don't I feel smart. Thank you kind sir!

[@josephsawczyn1145]

Pauper is so so much fun

[@murlockingdrako4371]

I'm 16 and I understood the Pop Eye reference purely because I used to watch it with my grandpa lol

[@Colt-yx2ow]

I'm assuming the mistake you're referring to is that technically with grunn you would have still easily killed Steven after he became a 1/1 because technically it was still a 17/17 which would make him a 34/34 which yes was more than enough?

[@ThomasEbel27]

I don't see their play mistake. Even though Jeremy didn't specify when he turned grunn into a 1/1 I would imagine it was AFTER Grunn doubled his stats, since Steven said he wasn't blocking. So, it wasn't enough to kill Steven. EDIT FOR CORRECTION: I am wrong and ignoring layers, rule 613 will clarify.

[@peterbrabant9936]

It was post attacks, the ability was already on the stack, he would have been a more than large enough trampler. The layers mistake is that Grunn would still have trample, in addition to the pump from the spells. Reference rule 613 for more info.

[@ThomasEbel27]

Oh, indeed. You are right. I just checked the rule. So, basically....regardless of when it becomes a 1/1 base it still gets its stats doubled? Bonkers. I thought the diminish would overwrite the doubling effect and change it from a 34/34 to a 1/1 with 16 counters.

[@SCGCommander]

(Jeremy) From what Riki explained to us, Grunn's ability that says "Double" means that it gets +x/+x, where x is its current power. With the way layers work, those bonuses would still apply even after the base power and toughness were changed to 1/1 after the trigger. It would have been a 1/1 with 16 +1/+1 counters, with an additional +2/+2 from the first pump effect (which we also missed), and +23/+23 from the doubling ability, making it a 42/42 with trample.

[@ThomasEbel27]

Big boy damage. Thanks for clarifying.

[@PeteB90]

Harambe died a hero and returned a King!

[@GrandDungeonDad]

Justin had this one all day long.

[@EvilM0nkeyRules]

Guys the mike bumps >·

[@TrilainaBloodwind]

Now I KNOW you all weren't dissing on Robbin Williams Popeye movie references!

[@itzBandomas]

3/1 "Trample" haste ;) He probably just assigned more than lethal to the blockers

[@RogueHippie13]

7:30 is why I am and always will be on #teamgreen

[@cherrytwelve7570]

I feel like Green has a giant target on his head

[@zachmayer2288]

Yessssss. I

[@MutilatedBunny]

Going to have to go Team Green this season. He is playing all the black cards, Parnell letting me down.

[@finnlindsey8355]

A little sad that they didnt use a normal deck. Wanted to see Tatyova in action

[@MetalSnakeBoogy]

No value town for Taty? I'm sure there are a lot of common land fetches.

[@FrostMonarch13]

director Kyle "Let my silk voice cascade into depth of your soul". pleze narrate the entire show

[@orohyuno]

I call this episode Uncommanders

[@muman717]

Jeremy needs to branch out a little... U/G is super good but he plays at least those colors almost every week :o

[@SCGCommander]

(Jeremy) It's my favorite color combo, and it was a bit front loaded this season.

[@muman717]

Haha I respect that. Can't complain too much, it's my favorite too!

[@kurowasanabe]

It doesn't even have access to Gonti, so it's hardly a Commander VS deck.

[@MrFeierkind]

Haha, I was thinking "I am 100% sure on jeremy playing Tatyova"

[@aaronchampion2270]

"I member,cause Pepperidge Farm members"😃😉☺

[@lastresort1plays]

Grunn should have lost trample at 45:52

[@Muffin_Pants1]

no the stack was he became a 1/1 snake then, got another +1/+1 counter and gained hexproof, capsize fizzeled, then he gets the +2/+2 and trample.