Common Women's History Myths We Need To Let Go

hellooo! just letting you know that this is obviously the tip of the iceberg, the choice of those myths is pretty random, just some things I noticed recently, and a short youtube video won't be enough to go into depth and detail of each of those topic - but hopefully it's a starting point for some interesting discussions!

[@antonipolski9569]

Hi

[@federicov.8685]

Hello

[@izzy4791]

Hi

[@starthelotus3453]

Video: 10 seconds ago Comment: 23 minutes ago

[@samuelforesta]

Hacks, you commented before the video was uploaded.

[@Isa-lh2mw]

"There were a lot of ankles to be seen on the streets" -Karolina Zebrowska

[@robinchesterfield42]

Out of context, that makes me think of like...rogue ankles. Not attached to anything, just ankles. Wandering around on their own. XD

[@OM9012-j7y]

And that's where they should be : on Da Streetz!!!

[@redcoatgaming4141]

@@robinchesterfield42 and these ankles go around attacking poor fit defenseless young men

[@Moon_Moon91]

AND SOMETIMES CALVES

[@yourlocaldemon2195]

THE LEG-POCALYPSE

[@lydia8526]

Modern period dramas: Victorian women did not even know or think about sex. Queen Victoria's Diary: *Laughs in thristy entries about Prince Albert*

[@jazzie2967]

Hahah *yes*

[@ingloriousMachina]

She was a sassy gal, too. Her infamy for having a perpetually sour mood was just her life-long mourning for her husband. ANOTHER thing! Her husband was actually a doting father and was much more engaged with the children than she was, even tutoring them himself. Some men were absolutely involved in their children's lives.

[@CJ-we2yj]

@@ingloriousMachina my mother often told me that her father was the one who doted on her and took care of her the most. I guess not all fathers are deadbeat.

[@cheesecakelasagna]

I need to read her wattpad!!!!

[@LynxieDove]

Lol yes, I used to think that till I bought a book that had reprints of erotic literature that were originally in The Pearl magazine.

[@lucie4185]

The mannered lady just reminds me of a court record I read from around 100 years ago about a lady being fined for breaking a gallon sized bottle belonging to the local pub. She had smashed it over her husbands head after she caught him out drinking one time too many. She was let off with a caution and the husband was barred from the pub 5 days a week.

MOOD

[@blacktigerpaw1]

Yo you should've read the one where a woman bit off a dudes nose who tried to kiss her.

[@Nikki-lodeon]

How did he survive that?!

[@nkc2666]

@@blacktigerpaw1 power move 101

[@seabreeze4559]

@@blacktigerpaw1 beating men with an umbrella for catcalling was pretty common

[@IJustWantToUseMyName]

The rich, old woman at the top of her family tree: My grandmother who would say whatever was on her mind and follow it with: “I’m old. I can say and do whatever I want.” And boy howdy, did she ever.

[@lemonstarofficial]

Ok

[@IvyGrants]

She sounds so amazing

[@IJustWantToUseMyName]

@@IvyGrants I was sort of fond of her. lol

[@terrier-9544]

Olenna Tyrell!

[@virtualink2335]

My great grandma was like this! She would say "well if I'm not acting myself now they might never get to know me!" definitely wasn't one to shy away from her age and death lol

[@texaspoontappa2088]

"women were speaking all the time, they just weren't necessarily heard" Woah.

[@EH23831]

And- recorded by history... remember who was recording things

[@malloray]

@@EH23831 THIS. EXACTLY THIS.

[@brittanyw.9351]

And it still feels like this often times...

[@blightedroses2423]

Yeah I'm feeling it right now

[@Ornithorhynchus.]

And I love your pfp It’s noice

[@YourWaywardDestiny]

Karolina ain't afraid to cut half her community engagement in half to tell people their ankle jokes are incorrect. Queens don't play stupid games.

[@Pollicina_db]

I was so annoyed by those comments tbh

[@Annika-im9di]

I thought you wrote to cut her calf and I was concerned for a second

[@YourWaywardDestiny]

@@Annika-im9di I am less confident saying Meme Mom would do that, but I wouldn't put it past her.

[@seabreeze4559]

unless you live in a monarchy, using our terms is really degrading and kinda sexist (queens didn't just sit on a throne looking pretty)

[@YourWaywardDestiny]

@@seabreeze4559 And you know I don't live in a country with a monarch how? And do you think I'm saying she's a queen because she's sitting on a throne looking pretty? After I legitimately made a comment about a queen making smart decisions? Really? And you think I'm making the comparison for what reason, exactly? And you know I was referring to an actual political position and not from thousands of other uses of the word how? You're making a lot of poor assumptions of your own accord. Those aren't my words, those are your first thoughts on the matter.

[@insertcheesypunhere]

"just because women were expected to be passive, doesn't mean they weren't active." !!!!!! this this this

[@lenabreijer1311]

Unless their husbands used a legally allowed sized stick to beat them into submission, legally. Or had them committed for being insane.

[@yasmineed-daoudi6023]

@@lenabreijer1311 yeah but not all men were like that. And not all women were married.

[@yasmineed-daoudi6023]

the point is that because every era has social rules doesn't mean everyone follows them - like we can observe today

[@mothma_am]

@Emmanuel Goldstein are you just obsessed with commenting shit like this on her channel

[@mothma_am]

@Emmanuel Goldstein alright sure, i guess defending my own gender against harmful stereotypes is white knighting. i don't go around looking to be offended, that would be much too easy. i would consider a sad existence to be looking for attention in the comments of a KZbin video. here's your attention, are you happy yet?

[@debbiegreen6784]

I think the sex ed definitely depended on the parents. My nan 4th of 9 children (5 boys 4 girls) born in 1903 to Victorian parents was sent into service with no information at all! When her periods started she thought she was dying! Thankfully her employer was a wonderful lady who explained everything to her, she made a vow that it would never happen to any of her children and she kept that

[@EmblaWanderer]

My mother in law, now 62, wasn't told either and ran one day to the hospital crying thinking she was dying too. Her parents thought anything sex related was dirty and never gave her ANY info. Shitty parenting def doesn't depend on the times you live in.

[@cheshirecatstuffs4944]

My grandma had a similar experience- she was staying with her grandmother, and woke up one morning bleeding and she thought she was dying somehow. Once her grandma figured out why she was freaking out she was able to explain stuff, and apparently scolded my grandma’s mother very hard because she didn’t teach her daughter. Apparently she thought it was shameful so she just... refused to tell her. Of course, this was quite a long time ago because my grandmother is in... her seventies, I think (edited for spelling)

[@jessislistless]

Something similar happened in my family. My mum grew up in a village in the developing world in the 1960s and the only had a few pairs of underwear, made of clothing scraps. When she had her first period, she thought she was dying or that her body wasn't right so couldn't ask anyone for help, especially not her mother. She only had school once a week and that coincided with her first shark week. In class, people noticed a "smell" but couldn't figure out what it was or where it was coming from. At the end of the day, her teacher would take her aside and basically taught her proper hygiene. I was 9 when we moved to Germany and that winter when I had my first period, I was so scared, you'd think history was about to repeat itself. I ran to my mum, who told me what to do but I don't think she ever told me why it was happening only that it happened to all "women". Mind you, none of the girls in school my age had started theirs yet. On the male perspective, my brothers were raised in an environment that told them to not concern themselves with matters of the female reproductive organs. Also, my father withheld funds from my mum for many deranged reasons so she couldn't buy actual sanitary pads and for years we had to use folded toilet paper. It wasn't until a 7th grade where I learned what pads & tampons were and finally those "always" ads I'd been seeing every day made sense.

[@athenapoe3377]

Born in the early 1980s. Got my period and thought I was dying too. I don't think the year matters- it is about what your parents teach you (and if they are prepared if you get it earlier than expected). FYI- my parents were not super religious and we didn't live in a village/rural area.

[@jessislistless]

@@athenapoe3377 I think the year definitely matters. With each decade or year even, there have been noticeable shifts on how young girls are informed on these things, especially in different parts of the world where sex ed isn't taught at the level we expect in the west. The way people talk about stds, the female body and similar topics has noticably changed over the last years.

[@wgp1057]

I would also add that women from richer classes would often sponsor schools for girls, do charity work, help with distributing local products or organise sales of local crafts. They would also write letters to men in a position of power expressing their opinions on political matters. For example memoirs of Princess Daisy from Silesia, Poland is full of copies of her letters to British and German Kings, where she scolds their plans. She also sold bottled water abroad and organised sales of local lace makes on the German court. In her memoirs she is very critical of her husband, who expected her to act a certain way, but she was very happy to stress she did exactly the opposite by riding her carriage alone, travelling without her husband, and basically having her own mind and being very vocal about it. As Karolina said, women were active, but not necassarily remembered.

[@ingloriousMachina]

Don't forget Florence Nightingale sticking up for low-ranking soldiers (by actually treating them like people) and revolutionising nursing and sanitation.

[@Weirdkauz]

I find the same concerning the old wild West: women were doing a LOT more than being Saloongirls or schoolmarms…

[@boointhelotus5332]

@@Weirdkauz Yaaas! The 1st several states in the U.S. to make it legal for women to vote were in the “Old” American West, decades before the 19th Amendment!!!

[@Weirdkauz]

@@boointhelotus5332 yepp, in Wyoming women even could have held office and participate in the drawing of the constitution as early as 1869.

[@ladymunsonthemagnificent6929]

Cool

[@eopatcjo]

"A lot of women were able to go through their lives like a badass f*cking battering ram" I'll be taking this line with me, thank you ma'am.

[@peacefulleopard8016]

This is awesome. I’m stealing that. Thank you, Meme Queen!

[@JessicaOrban3606]

It is awesome and so true!

[@familyguyclips4367]

Timestamp?

[@laurabalcerek773]

the one that always pisses me off is the “women didn’t work”

[@ingloriousMachina]

Housewives as we know them are a product of the 1940s-50s. Even the women who stayed at home still had domestic skills that they made money off of.

[@lyndsaybrown8471]

This one. So much. Because they often worked and still had to maintain the household.

[@damkota1454]

The biggest reinvented and unfair myth, perpetuated by Hollywood and beta i-just-want-to-be-a-real-man boys.

[@leshurlementsdelacave9563]

lol, yes,so for them while men was dying during WW1 their bombs and weapons were made by squirrels and marmots.

[@elenal2012]

Women always worked (f.i. in agricultural societies) they just didn't get payed for it or were paid less.

[@elpunpun8487]

How my auntie of 60 years old said one time: "All generations are the same fucking shit, i have stories more scandalous to tell, than one that happened to your friends"

[@puffy1430]

I would love to hear your auntie stories

[@cumsock107]

Go to sleep, El Pun Pun.

[@frankkkbard0n315]

a 60 year old from todaygrew up in the 70´s, so no big deal

[@thirdgen377]

Your math is off

[@judyabdalla4737]

@@thirdgen377 a 60 year old was born inn 1960-61, so they would have experienced teenage scandals in the 70s :)

[@OnlyMusic16]

It's almost like women in the past were....the same as women now? Who could possibly imagine

[@jamieschneider6176]

Ikr it's like women evolve with the times, but have always cared and have always been talking and being strong. But have been shadowed by men, and by class weird huh.

[@wierdalien1]

@@jamieschneider6176 shadowed isnt the right term. Confined, maybe.

[@cordeliathedm]

Exactly!! So tired of seeing people deminish the amazing achievements of women in the past because they want to spin a tale about how oppressed we were.

[@botanicalitus4194]

@@cordeliathedm we were oppressed though, we just didnt take it lying down

[@yxumi]

Hey is this the photo of dean's album just interested if you're a fan?:3

[@HelloGoodbye2085]

My least favourite one is that all women were forced into marriages and married for financial security. Most women were working class, they were going to be working until they were little old ladies anyway so marrying another working-class man wasn’t going to automatically mean that they had financial security or could be a housewife or whatever. most working-class women married another working-class lad who they were in love with or, who in the case of my great great great great grandmother, they thought was fit.

[@KasumiRINA]

That's the problem we have because of historical records: most that survived were of nobles and royals. Princesses AND princes were forced into marriages as a political tool, it was just specific to 0.01% of nobility that just had to make everything about them.

[@HelloGoodbye2085]

@@KasumiRINA very true

[@notthecarfullestgirl]

Semi-related, the fact that the average age of marriage in the western world has been on average mid-20s when a couple was financially stable and not teenagers, playing into the whole child bride trope. As already mentioned, royal/aristocratic marriages skew the statistics because those were political but even then, they /knew/ it was bad form to consummate the marriage when the bride was too young. LOOKING AT YOU, EDMUND TUDOR.

[@MissMiserize]

@@notthecarfullestgirl That's true. Most cultures were not okay with pedophilia. Many "child marriages" of the past were between two children, and both of them waited until they were older to consummate it.

[@seabreeze4559]

plenty of women worked outside of the home too

[@chrisbricker1234]

Oh to be an rich, preferably old, woman on the top of my family tree

[@angrytrees7519]

The dream.

[@sherbetotter]

Who knits for orphans and was once an old maid 😂

[@roserose109]

sounds like a wonderful life lol

[@rolom3]

Exactly my thoughts

[@the-ma-an]

Give it time

[@Randomkloud]

Like you mentioned, one of my pet peeves in fiction (particularly ones set in a western-based feudal society) is the presence of modern feminists in them. Like this princess who ran away to be an adventurer can discuss critical gender theory while being totally blind to her own privilege as an aristocrat (because acknowledging it would break the story)

[@theredsir869]

Indeed, for every princess who wants runs off there are likely legions of peasant girls who would pray to take her place and at least 10 or 20 who would quite literally kill for it.

[@creativedesignation7880]

I think the particular trope of a princess who tackles stereotypes, but rarely her own privilege actually has a reason to be that way. A princess was a type of role model by virtue of being a princess alone, so she would be the type of person to set a positive example by confronting/resisting other conventions of society, but if she confronts her own role as a princess, that would undermine her status as a role model in the first place. (Which yes, is obviously elitist and also sexist, but I think within the societal structures and common tropes at that time has its reasoning. Especially considered that most fables were, while not having been written by them, written down (and in the proces adjusted) by men.)

[@coffeecarnosaur3095]

Yeah, I loathe it when an adaptation of a book has modern garbage inserted in it. For instance Little Women (1994) where the doctor apparently knows less than Mrs. March about scarlet fever. They actually have her say the line, “We’ve got to bring the fever down from her head.” As if a trained physician wouldn’t know anything about fevers!

[@callnight1441]

whats worse is, they then ignore actual examples of women breaking social norms and stuff like that (i'm thinking of the suffregettes)

[@moongi325]

@@coffeecarnosaur3095 wouldn't it be contemporary garbage? modern era ended a long time ago.

[@pootoobaby738]

It’s like people forget Mr. Darcy’s rich old aunt existed. Everyone feared her (even the clergy) and she nearly forced her nephew to marry her daughter.

[@veritasvanburen_]

Lady Catherine de Bruh was lowkey a Queen 👑

[@JoshGoingRAW]

"I never learned piano...but if I had, I would have been a great proficient" alright sis lol

[@manmoy4104]

@@veritasvanburen_ "de bruh" I cant lmao.

[@ziyanda_theartist]

Right??? 😹😹 And Lizzy was definitely not timid -- this is why I appreciate Pride And Prejudice, lol

[@youraveragemusicperson2176]

@@veritasvanburen_ de bruh 💀💀💀

[@morbs1732]

Thinking women were always passive and quiet back then is a lot like someone from the future looking at our time and thinking all women are skinny, sexual and have big boobs (or whatever the ideal is now). People have always been people. These women probably broke societal rules and hated the "ideal woman" as much as we do now, it just hasn't been documented well.

[@rubym6178]

Off topic but I love your profile pic (Also you made a good point)

[@yunamchill9169]

@@rubym6178 Me too. Haku was my first fictional crush, he's sweet. Still wonder what became of him.

[@hineraable]

@@yunamchill9169 Another river?

[@yunamchill9169]

@@hineraable More as in did he and Chihiro ever meet again. The first love story I was invested in.

[@hineraable]

@@yunamchill9169 Well, Haku is a spirit, so Chihiro will probably see him again when she dies.

[@OMGitsaClaire]

Example of more subtle historical badassery: my grandmother was born in 1914 to a tenant farming family in rural Minnesota. She was the oldest of three girls. The only readily available local education to her ended at age 12. So with her father pushing her towards education and her mother’s savvy with finding jobs (her mother had been a housekeeper as a teen) she got a job at a boarding house in town at the age of 12 in exchange for room and board so she could attend high school. In fact, she did so well at school despite having to balance homework with washing dishes and laundry at the boarding house that she graduated near the top of her class and got scholarship offers to college. She was the first person in her family to get a college degree. She attended a women’s college in the Twin Cities on scholarship to get an associates degree in stenography while working all kinds of jobs to support herself including being a courier for a while. She bought herself a car at 19 and taught herself to drive it (although she was a terrible driver her whole life). She had fun swing dancing all over Minneapolis and St. Paul and met my grandpa that way. She got married at age 26. And the story goes on and on. She was a remarkable woman who lived to be 100. Never going to be in any history books, but her sheer force of will to do what she wanted and the support she had from her family, especially her father, allowed her to thrive.

[@rainbowgirlism]

WRITE THE BOOK!!!😄

[@petrovafireice]

👏👏👏

[@petrovafireice]

She was doing more than most women in this age as well. I'm from India so I mean you get what I'm trying to say. Not that all Indian women are treated this way but there are alot of restrictions being a woman. It's difficult for women in some places to even realise that they have a right to speak up. So for me this story of your grandmother this really is truly touching. ❤️

[@yaboicolleen]

She sounds amazing; you are lucky to have known her! As someone also from Minnesota, what part was she originally from?

[@swordsmen8856]

Write a book and send it to this channel

[@твоямама-я3е]

"YO BRO YOU'RE NOT GONNA BELIEVE WHAT I JUST SAW" "What" "ELIZABETHS ANCELS" "DAYUM BRO U LUCKY"

[@Sammy-yf2sb]

LMAOOO

[@princesspeanut3420]

I'm wheezing 😂😂

[@alexa-im4df]

A

[@stannoisegen-_-4458]

Lmao your PFP- MORK 😂

[@pronitasharma5317]

😂😂

[@tereziamarkova2822]

The last one is the reason I am fed up with the whole "not like other girls" trope; just because the protagonist is super not confirming to the era's standards, that doesn't mean the rest of womankind are a bunch of dainty flowers without their own oppinions.

[@dennis437]

it's okay you can say amy march

[@tereziamarkova2822]

@@dennis437 I did not, in fact, mean Amy March. Besides, the author actually lived in the period she is depicting (the book is based on her and her sisters), so I don't know if I can in good conscience criticize her portrayal of it.

[@ingloriousMachina]

As if there was anything wrong with being a dainty flower anyway.

[@okiedokie2840]

@@ingloriousMachina ur pfp yes

[@chenmae9747]

@@ingloriousMachina Yeah there isn’t but not everyone wants to be one

[@arwena102]

As for boobs not being sexualized in the past, I think that working class mothers would have to breastfeed in the presence of other people, as the cities were just too crowded and the women too busy to go hide every time. Thus people would be used to seeing boobs being used to feed a baby, and would not associate them with a sexual context, but with just a normal part of motherhood in a way.

[@jonquilgemstone]

It's like we simultaneously became more promiscuous and more prudish.

[@alexmicurin1314]

@@jonquilgemstone and now its boobs on Instagram boobs on tiktok and youtube

[@ns.kha29]

@@alexmicurin1314 :( why is this our world

[@videoupload6898]

@@ns.kha29 what do you mean?

[@GoalOrientedLifting]

Just because theyre used to feed babies doesn't mean they're not sexualized. We're the only mammal with huge breasts, and it's not because they make more milk. Female ideals can even be seen in thousands years old figurines. Detailing large breasts, tiny waist and big hips.

[@prometheusjones6580]

Re: sex ed, wouldn't people who lived in a largely agrarian society (or at least around domesticated animals) have tons of opportunities to see how sexual reproduction works?

that too!

[@lucie4185]

Even in the cities the amount of unneutered dogs and cats would probably give them a good idea.

[@namedrop721]

Yes. It’s how I figured it out. Also newly urban society was immensely crowded-living space, people talking. Probably ‘the details’ as always were somewhat vague unless you were an eye/earwitness but what I’m wondering is if a lot of the ‘make girls aware’ is about avoiding men just trying to get in their skirts. Because even with modern sex ed that part has definitely not gone away and is definitely the worse part rather than not knowing where baby comes from.

[@practicallymedieval2027]

Seriously this! People with spayed and neutered pets who live in a city may not realize it but uh animals do it a lot. And I cannot imagine being so sheltered as a teenage girl you don't have a dog or a cat or a horse with offspring and get that explained to you.

[@lucie4185]

@@practicallymedieval2027 yeah and the upper classes were mad for dogs, many still are.

[@babyblue3717]

My grandma is an amazing woman who, despite being christian and relatively conservative, was just the baddest bitch in her youth. She grew up in a farm with lots of siblings and her family set her up with a middle class farmer, but she didn't like him so she just ran away with my grandpa (a poor baker) while barely knowing him just so she could come to the big city. Here, she ended up falling in love with him and marrying him, and they both built the house i live in with my family, together. They worked and raised their children as equals and grandpa always bragged about having the smartest wife in the world. She told me once when she ran away with him she was planning on leaving him when they got to the city and finding herself some stupid rich man to help her. She is amazing.

[@qwertypotato4041]

awww

[@stevenlight5006]

Of course she wanted a"rich"man ha nothing has changed.

[@erica-mr8jw]

@@stevenlight5006 u sound hurt, steven 💀

[@chunkysoup5849]

“A poor baker” bro I think your aunt was Katniss Everdeen 😭😭

[@xinoaphobia]

@@chunkysoup5849 LMFAO

[@victorianmelodrama]

American public schools: If your neckline is low enough to expose your collarbones, you'll have to go home. You'll distract the boys. 18th-century women: Big T*ddy Liddy go brr

[@kayenjee]

This comment 👏🏼 👏🏼 👏🏼

[@bloggerblogg5878]

or every Catholic school, and this all others, show your shoulders, show your knees, go home. Poor boys.

[@leoreth2179]

Boys are so easily impressed nowadays

[@PraiseJ-Pope]

@@leoreth2179 they're weak

[@itsbritneybyotch7471]

@@PraiseJ-Pope hah not me

[@xavierrodriguez1370]

Japanese Heian era lady: Accidentally exposes wrist. Man: Are you trying to seduce me? Lady: No. Man: Yes you are.

[@hakasims]

Japanese Heian era lady: Sorry, I have no time to seduce you. I'm too busy inventing the novel

[@isaacgray2909]

Genji: I take that as a yes

[@magdahearne497]

😅

[@sigrid.koppel]

😂

[@munensuno8792]

the "no" could be seen as a yes tho🥶🥶🥶🥶

[@kurtjk01]

I had a co-worker who refused to let her daughter take sex education in the public schools. I said to her, "Oh, so you're just going to teach her at home?" She said, "My daughter doesn't need to know anything about sex until she is going to get married." The daughter got pregnant at age 16. This was in the 90s. I imagine a lot of earlier cases of out of wedlock pregnancies have similar stories . . .

[@noalapizza-paella3986]

HOLY SHIT!

[@hideakisorachi3953]

@@noalapizza-paella3986 teaching absitince only literally doesnt work. I'd rather my child be safe and be knowledgeable than do something stupid without any prior knowledge

[@noalapizza-paella3986]

@@hideakisorachi3953 I never said that wasn't how it worked, it's just I was shocked by the ending

[@jonquilgemstone]

@@hideakisorachi3953 Abstinence *does* work as long as it is not done by maximizing ignorance.

[@annabeinglazy5580]

@@jonquilgemstone abstinence that is lived as part of an informed decision. That works. Abstinence only education doesnt. Simply witholding information from Teenager and telling them not to have sex doesnt work, as can be seen easily when looking at statistics. States with abstinence only education have the highest rates of Teenage pregancy, which mostly stems from the fact that the Teenagers obviously had sex despite the abstinence only stance of the education system. But they lack the knowledge to protect themselves. If someone decides to be abstinent, all the more power to them. But as part of an education system it simply doesnt work

[@edenmckinley3472]

I heard a story of a woman who lived in the Edwardian Era, and she broke pretty much every idea we have about 1800's society. She was the daughter of a German duke, she was extremely well educated but extremely tiny (shorter than five foot) she could play the piano like a concert pianist and she was an incredible equestrian. She moved to Nebraska as a mail order bride in a marriage arranged by her father, and ended up falling in love with and being perfectly happy with the rancher she married. She could entertain guests like a queen holding court, and she could ride through the territory with perfect skill. Her husband was proud of how capable she was, not threatened or surprised. That's another thing we often forget - the aristocratic and intellectual men had this ideal of women but that ideal was often not shared by lower class men. A working man wanted a wife who was strong and capable, because if she wasn't, their family would starve and she would most likely die. So yeah, marriage wasn't as much about love back then, meaning it was about practicality. And a dainty, ultra feminine, clueless wife wasn't practical.

[@amberg4131]

I’m curious about the women who were like me,small chested who even with all my might couldn’t breastfeed enough for my kids. If I’m not wealthy or important,what would I do? Ask friends for help with breast feeding? How did the lower poor family survive with children? Would my mother who actually breastfeed my sisters and I have to go try to feed my child? Does that even work after so long not having a child herself? Or maybe she would still be having kids her age? That’s my question

[@edenmckinley3472]

@@amberg4131 It's possible that you might find a close friend or neighbor woman to breastfeed your children, and in exchange, you work for her in some way -- doing laundry or baking bread, something like that.

[@rachelcookie321]

⁠​⁠@@amberg4131 actually, before formula was invented wet nurses were very common even for working class women. It was cheaper to pay someone to stay home and feed your baby than to take months off work. Parents would often even send their baby away to live with another family for the first couple years of life. Wet nurses actually made a lot of money by taking in and feeding multiple babies. Alternatively if you had a family member who had recently given birth then you could ask them to feed your baby also. Families were bigger back then and women were always having kids so you surely knew someone who was still breastfeeding.

[@snikrdoodls14]

Its a common misconception that just because societal standards were different, we were somehow less human.

[@aseerose5684]

Or, if not less human, at least a lot stupider.

[@jonquilgemstone]

@@aseerose5684 "People used lead and mercury in their products. How stupid!" *eats a tide pod and puts plastic in the microwave*

[@GoalOrientedLifting]

This baffles me. Women weren't weak, incapable slaves. The same goes to the idea that people somehow were dumber than modern humans

[@hi_im_anti_social3321]

Except many of those old ‘societal standards’ were actually dehumanising. People back then believed your skin colour determined whether or not you were morally and legally allowed to have rights. Wack.

[@user-sg4ov7ng4h]

@@hi_im_anti_social3321 i think they took that from royals that wanted to be ligther because it meant you didn't work

[@RustyPaige]

“Women were speaking up all the time. They just weren’t necessarily heard” I need everyone to hear understand that line

[@aseerose5684]

Common people of both sexes speak up and are not heard to this very day. You are fighting the wrong enemy.

[@WhatssupAlly]

@@aseerose5684 well yeah but *back then* people cherished men more than women.

[@rosieharris3176]

@@aseerose5684 That's a class (or "common people" as you put it) issue. The point is that, while both men and women have been unheard for many different reasons, women are ignored/laughed at etc. BECAUSE they were/are women. You could only be taken seriously if you had a penis...

[@aseerose5684]

@@rosieharris3176 So what? It's a divide and conquer issue no matter what you call it. It has morphed from human failing>>class issue>>political issue>> feminist issue, but it is a strategy which has kept humans subservient to one group or another for centuries. And now we see the most basic of human divisions which has survived despite all efforts to kill it, both sides now at each other's throats, weakened and divided, no longer of any use to each other. I have seen men go to their deaths over being "unheard" for one reason or another. This is not a class issue it is a human issue. You are no different from those men, the hook is in you, the chip is on your shoulder, and somebody will come to knock it off. Again, I say, so what? You belong to the most pampered, most well fed and clothed, most educated and most free , most politically relevant and powerful class of women ever to live, and you are still burdened and enslaved by your negative and painful emotions, which are played like a harp by those in charge. It does not matter which key it is played in, the melody is the same. Divide and conquer. Or step out of that mindset and be a strong and free person, not a pitiful, imbittered and downtrodden woman. Go for it.

[@Yuyuhh271]

@@WhatssupAlly mmm cap. The policy was always “women and children” to be saved. The way I look at it is that women were infantilized. They were cherished and loved as children, but not taken seriously because they were associated with children. Men had agency, but were viewed as dangerous for such agency and thus lower and middle class men and ethnic minorities in men throughout the globe suffered most of the institutional state sanctioned violence and death campaigns. Doesn’t mean women were hated and men were glorified. Just that women weren’t taken seriously, and men were taken a little too seriously (to the point where any lower status man was an automatic threat simply for being male).

[@giorgiar24]

That what bothered me so much about Bridgeton. There's no way the female characters didn't know what seggs was. Especially Penelope, I can excuse lady Bridgeton not sitting down Daphne and Eloise to have a talk but penople mother would. Her entire thing is that she wants to marry off her daughters and they are all in society. She had to have a talk with them. She's not naive. And Penelope would have told Eloise. Also Eloise is way to curious to never having asked herself the question or simply having coming across a more explicit book. We see the girls going around London alone and be independent yet we have to believe they have no idea what seggs is?

[@blacktigerpaw1]

There were sex manuals published in the Middle Ages, lol

[@ingloriousMachina]

I hate the trend of making virgins either naive innocent bby uwu or just plain losers. It's literally just the state of having never been sexually active before.

[@redwitch95]

@@blacktigerpaw1 hell, in the medieval period it was popularly believed both partners needed to orgasm in order to conceive. Like there's no way women commonly grew up knowing nothing about sex with that in mind, let alone the fact most families lived in one room so it'd be a bit unavoidable to overhear if other people went at it.

[@ingloriousMachina]

@@redwitch95 That belief actually continued even into the 19th century, and it led to more of an emphasis of mutual pleasure and taking your time than just getting a good pelvic sneeze.

[@FilippaSkog]

@@ingloriousMachina ...a good pelvic sneeze. I may have almost woken my child up by snorting with laughter. That’s a wonderful expression, and quite accurate!

[@lunix3259]

When she explained about how breasts exposure wasn't looked as a sexual thing in the past. If you go to certain tribes where I live rn, it's still not sexualized, you'll see women topless. I realized it's almost like how you try to cover something tightly, in order to make it more valuable, sexually. Of course no all culture embraces this. But that's what I think.

[@itsallperspective7415]

But again if you look at Asian, European, and some northern cultures breasts have definitely been sexualized for. Centuries. Weird thought- I know it's. A stereotype; but is THIS the reason Middle sast, African, and South African people prefer butt compared to boobs?

[@prenomnom4022]

@@itsallperspective7415 not really Before the european echange ect ( not colonisation just commercial echange ) Japan for exemple didn't sexualise nipples But to look better they cover up for european

[@fifibobeefy]

where I live it's actually legal to go around topless as a woman, but that's off of what I was gonna say, I've seen many men say that people sexualizing breasts are a normal thing and compared it to how animals will look for certain things in a partner to make them the best to mate with, which is obviously false since bigger breast sizes don't produce more milk.

[@bobbirdsong6825]

@pining over pines Im not sure how sound that reasoning is because most sexually attractive traits have nothing to do with survivability whatsoever. Like how many bugs and birds have brightly colored patterns for attracting females, but that dont actually impact, or potentially worsen, the ability to survive. Similarly in humans, many traits that don’t have anything to do with vitality are sexualized, breasts being one of those things

[@lauragray19]

@@fifibobeefy In fact, for centuries in Europe it was *small* breasts that were sexualized, because they indicated a young woman who had yet to give birth.

[@katrianem2124]

My pet peeve when people are talking about history is they forget about the working classes. Like how before women’s rights women couldn’t work. No, noble women and even men couldn’t work. The middle class tried to copy them but they definitely worked and the working class’ title tells you all about their lives.

[@jwhippet8313]

Noble women were socially required to work, just not for renumeration. They had to stay busy knitting, sewing, at times horse and dog breeding. It was called, "Women's industry," and even Franz Ferdinand's wife wrote letters about her, "Women's industry." In Hungary, they used to let the children who lived on the estate meet the lady of the estate in the house before St Nicholas day. She would give out the little trinkets of "women's industry" the women of the house had made over the previous year.

[@AlexanderRM1000]

I don't know about other noble systems but for an interesting example, in ancient Sparta both female *and* male "citizens" (who made up perhaps 6% of the population) were prohibited or at least looked down on for doing any sort of productive work, since that was for slaves. Spartiate men were expected to exercise and hunt to be good soldiers for putting down slave revolts and women were supposed to stay healthy and raise healthy children to make good soldiers eho could put down slave revolts.

[@Csaykaman]

@@jwhippet8313 woah

[@katrianem2124]

@@jwhippet8313 I’m not when it was or wasn’t fashionable for nobles to work but a lot of the British nobility were broke post ww1/ww2 and resorted to selling their land or heirlooms rather than ‘resorting to work’. Their dwindling family fortunes couldn’t keep up with the gauche newly rich American ‘made men’ who bought those things from them. Sure they’d run their houses or do charitable work or even make money entrepreneurially but actual work was considered below them.

[@GamingDad]

Throughout history 99% of the pop had no say what so ever. And that 1% that had power consisted of both men and women. It's good to reflect on this but not good to let it affect your emotions on cirrent issues.

[@AbsolXGuardian]

So ankles were kind of like middrifts. Like no one really cares if your shirt lifts up while you move around, but a crop top can range from scandalous to typical fashion. However an intentional lack of covering one's middrift is never considered explict.

[@xAlecto]

Oh! What a great way to put it. Thank you c:

[@janisi9262]

VERY good analogy!

[@thetiredworm2100]

Ya exactly what I was thinking

[@Twohomst]

+

[@angussneef]

Can we stop differentiating between women’s work and men’s work? Work is work.

[@TranscendentLion]

The point about sex awareness reminds me of a time at school when we were talking about the Bible, and one person in the class couldn't comprehend that people in those days knew how to breed animals.

[@Kizamo]

Tell them that people have been breeding animals for thousands of years

[@Mandinatorisland]

They weren't puppy breeders y'all realize animals breed naturally without humans right?

[@fabplays6559]

Lara Mack Yeah but they selectively bred animals. That’s why we HAVE domestic breeds of cows and pigs and sheep. Just like how we bred dogs.

[@rainpooper7088]

@@fabplays6559 Yeah, they definitely did know to ensure the ones with favorable traits lived for long enough to procreate.

[@rsokol71]

Lol so we are an Atheist family but my kid is allowed to explore whatever she wants. She went to a church club with her friend and they were talking about Christmas and they touched on how Mary and Immaculate Conception. My daughter at 7 came home and wanted to know what it meant. I explain it was having a baby with out sex. She didn't skip a beat that day and was like "Well, I am not going back they are not telling the truth go watch the chickens Mom" that was the day my daughter decided god cant be real.

[@emmajohnson2617]

Schools now,” How dare you show your shoulders so scandalous!”

[@movedaccountscyayalls7119]

We repressed hard

[@eiriniavataridou]

You have this kind of mentality at your schools? We didn't XD

[@mechadoggy]

Hmm? Both girls and boys were definitely allowed to show their shoulders in school when I grew up, as long as the straps were at least 2 fingers wide (so no spaghetti straps allowed)

[@PumkpinSpiceAvery]

Can we also stop trivializing "women's work" and admit that women contributed to society in a meaningful way? All the traditionally feminine roles for a household were both essential and difficult. They did not have modern appliances or modern-day grocery stores helping them out. No washer/dryers, no pre-made stock, no fresh veggies in winter, etc. They did it all, because restaurants weren't a thing. And embroidery is every bit as artistic and difficult as painting. It can't really be studied, because fabric decomposes so easily. It is a well-known loss in the art history community that any original fabric-based piece is just gone. Nothing burns me up more than movies and TV shows making embroidery and sewing out to be dull and the result of oppression. Would you say Michelango was dull and oppressed?

[@ampharos6420]

Ach, yeah, people who don't sew don't even appreciate how time consuming it is. Quite a lot must have decomposed, but we do still have loads of historical embroidery, depends when you're wanting it to be from, I guess. We're lucky to have almost the whole Bayeux tapestry, with very specific techniques, to study. There's veg in winter, you can go with what's in season, for the better-off there were greenhouses, there was pre-prepared food for sale, places to have a meal, etc. But if you're a wealthy woman, while you might do some, you also don't have to do all the household stuff yourself, or necessarily any of it, and women who aren't wealthy are doing work on top of that, or being a servant and helping keep the household running is their actual job. The 'traditional' role isn't very traditional to begin with.

[@pneumarian]

Why else did he put the pope in hell on the Sistine Chapel? ;-P

[@tornadochaser2169]

Exactly! My main goal in life is to be a housewife and mother, but I just know men and women alike will look at me and assume I'm living that lifestyle due to oppression or conditioning. Women don't need to do what men do to be equal or make a difference.

[@gianmarcorusso1713]

Yas! Do agree.

[@chelanlaw]

@@tornadochaser2169 Thank you yes!

[@RagDollCookie]

Everyone: you can't wear a skirt to go hiking with us. Me: *shows photo of Edwardian women climbing mountains*

[@ingloriousMachina]

I literally raided a thrift store of all of their long, high-waisted skirts in my size specifically for working in them.

[@RagDollCookie]

@@ingloriousMachina relatable

[@nicolemenzies8438]

I was literally in a religion where I couldn't wear pants and we did everything in skirts ( including hiking!) Lol, it's possible 😁

[@Somebodyelse141]

@@nicolemenzies8438 what religion?

[@leshurlementsdelacave9563]

Me : *wear a short* Sport teacher : WTF IS THAT??! Me : Wut? We just do ping-pong.. Sport teacher : NO! 👺TABLE TENNIS! And this short is NOT a sport suit. Me : *don't care* During this time in the victorian era : "lololol c'mon climb some mountain" "oyee i'll put mah dress on"

[@cannibal_redneck7109]

There was a very badass lady who lived in my hometown named Kate Blair. When her husband, J. C. Blair, a very successful entrepreneur and inventor of the paper tablet in 1848, died on a trip to the closest hospital, Kate founded a whole ass new one right in town in memory of her husband so that nobody would have to watch their loved ones die seeking treatment.That hospital is still in operation today and whenever I visit the graveyard, I always acknowledge Kate's grave

[@justaperson5631]

1:00 Ankles 3:00 Modesty 4:33 No Seggs Ed 6:45 Ladies "being proper" 8:02 Female Inertia

[@eshalkayani5350]

Ew who says “seggs” nowadays just grow up lol

[@eshalkayani5350]

@fatemeh kargaroh ok but can’t they just write s*x instead of seggs bc it feels kinda weird but i guess whatever

[@justaperson5631]

@@eshalkayani5350 I only copied and pasted what Karolina wrote, that's why!

[@eshalkayani5350]

@@justaperson5631 oh nice i wasn’t trying to be rude even tho it seemed rude lmao it just made me feel weird

[@eshalkayani5350]

@@justaperson5631 have a great day, sorry if i seemed rude

[@ivyblack2209]

"Women were speaking out all the time. They just weren't necessarily always heard." 👏👏👏

[@ThermicLight]

As opposed to who? Men? Just how much did people listen to the ordinary pleb? Besides no one is entitled to be heard. Any moron can make noise.

[@botanicalitus4194]

@@ThermicLight Except men's input wasnt discounted on the basis of their gender, smartass. It was usually class, and sometimes race. Gender was never made a barrier for men like it was for women

[@ThermicLight]

@@botanicalitus4194 - lol what? You actually think mens input wasn't ever discounted by their sex? They have their role just the same. So when they can't maintain such they are actively discredited or denounced. For example the oh so lovely treatment men received by women who would hand out white feathers of cowardice to young men not in uniform. But you wouldn't care about that kind of naunce because you view women only as victims without autonomy because apparently treating women with kid gloves passes as "respect" for the smooth brain simpleton of today.

[@chenmae9747]

@@ThermicLight So your saying men went through the same thing as woman back in the days or?

[@ThermicLight]

@@chenmae9747 - No I am saying especially back then before the state became a nanny that men and women operate under a dynamic. The oppressor / oppressed narrative feminists peddle into force feeding people via indoctrination completely lacks this nuance.

[@Peayou...]

Number one misconception: women didn't do anything till they woke up in the 1960s and said " I want to work" which is ignored becouse political reason lolll

[@blacktigerpaw1]

It's hilarious because if you look at "traditional" women's work like sewing or textiles, nearly all of it was done by women lol

[@MrJero85]

Yeah women were working in many settings for centuries both inside the household and in the market. Besides housework was often harder than farming or office work. Only very wealthy women could afford to live a life of leisure.

[@smsmsmsmsmsm]

Literally

[@thussaidsomenone]

It was a long slumber

[@candygirl42245]

This is so hilarious. Women made a significate impact on WW2 from being nurses to creating war supplies.

[@emmas3111]

She explained the whole deal with the exposure or breasts not being as big a deal in certain point of the past. Really made me think.

[@birdyfeederz7940]

I watched a doc one where they were talking to people in Africa (can't remember which country, sadly. Possibly Nigeria?) Where they were saying that even now, breasts weren't that exciting. They're for feeding babies... Why would that be a turn on? But the displays of inner thigh that girls in the US wouldn't think twice about would be quite a brazen come-on there. I'm sure it varies throughout the continent, though. There's a whole lot of culture in Africa

[@Kizamo]

Even today, in some parts of the world, it’s not a big deal.

[@birdyfeederz7940]

@@nehalilisays makes sense, really. Breasts objective shouldn't be any more interesting than sippy cups or baby spoons. Legs (upper inner thigh, anyway. Dunno about ankles) are kinda the runways to reproductive parts

[@SM-qv2om]

I heard in spain women can just walk along top less at the beach or something like that

[@birdyfeederz7940]

@@SM-qv2om I read the English version of a travel guide for Europeans visiting America. One of the things was "Americans are very prudish about nudity, and have strict indecency laws. Even at the beach, even for infants, nudity is not allowed. Breast feeding is an exception to this rule in most areas" Also "many American--especially if you visit southern states--own firearms. This is not usually a problem for tourist, but be polite."

[@engelberthovel8566]

If y’all would like a good example of an early 1900s badass woman, look up Edith Flagg! She was a Jewish woman who survived multiple nazi invasions, lost her husband, and had to save her kid’s life by hiding him in a sanitarium and posing as a nurse to visit him. She ended up acting as a spy and straight up killing two nazis, and she saved and protected a ton of people. After this, she moved to America with only a few dollars and ended up creating her own massive fashion empire. She had a ton of integrity as a businesswoman and basically revolutionized the industry-she was the first person to recognize the importance of PR, making sure she always got her name out there with every sale. She also was the first person to ever import polyester to the US-she discovered its potential as a fabric when she saw it in another country and as a result is basically the godmother of the 70s. She used her self made fortune to do a TON for charity and philanthropy, and she received recognition from Oskar Schindler’s family as being amazing. She lived to be 94 and was an awesome grandma to her adorable gay grandson, who’s a famous realtor and was super inspired by her strength, toughness, and amazing work ethic. SPREAD THE WORD!!

[@Studybug-ze4vr]

Thank you!!

[@fran4636]

My great grandmother dropped out of school in 8th grade because she had to go to work when her dad left the family. She never got to go back to high school but she was brilliant and read books constantly. Her kids both went to college and grad school. Thank you for pointing out the importance of considering women’s options when we evaluate their historical achievements.

[@judithweiss6727]

there's a misconception that until mandatory public school people were illiterate. In the 18th c in America at least almost every free person was literate and even some slaves surreptitiously learned to read and write. Thomas Paine's "Common Sense" was a best seller and people discussed it everywhere. Every town had several newspapers. It's not that hard to learn to read actually.

[@fran4636]

@@judithweiss6727 No, I imagine my great grandmother probably learned to read at a young age, likely 6 or so as kids tend to do. I was reading before I started kindergarten, so, it’s obviously possible to learn pretty young even without formal schooling. I brought up her love of reading that indeed she kept educating herself outside of school, though she didn’t have as much access to certain careers or going to college because she never got a diploma. The history of reading and writing is really fascinating, I love learning about the explosion of print communication in the 1660s in Britain when publishing became far less expensive and people could afford cookbooks and sex manuals

[@ThePariskat]

And dead beat dads always existed. Men are so disapointing.

[@KatieDarden]

Neither of my parents completed high school (until my disabled dad went back at 40). That didn't stop either of them from being brilliantly intelligent and continuing to learn throughout their lives. Even I am an autodidact (and the first in my family to finish high school, with a little college before having to stop in order to support my daughter and me). We live in different times now, but it is often useful to recognize that earlier times created and offered different opportunities. Not all "oppression" was racially or even gender-based. Most of it has always been economic, which is why knowing what you want in life, and taking advantage of the opportunities in the USA have always been so righteous.

[@Pollicina_db]

Ugh, tell me about Bridgerton. My friend (we're highschoolers) told me that she really liked the fact that girls didn't know about the 'frisky bed action' (she said that nowadays we know too much). I immediatly told her lol no, people back then knew about that stuff. Series like that really make it seem like our ancestors were innocent lil angels that were emberrased at the slightest skin being shown. Bring justice to our ancestors Netflix.

[@hannamadsen]

'Frisky bed action' is now my replacement phrase for sex.

[@lilarhixiel5505]

I cite Outlander. Ha ha

[@bessdavies6440]

"We know too much nowadays". LOL yep, sounds terrible to be highly informed and educated on a subject of your choice 😂😂😂

[@itsmeemrys9221]

Bring justice to our ancestors and frisky bed action. I approve thank you for these words

[@minjaarsic3327]

@@bessdavies6440 I feel like no one of reproductive age can ever "know too much" about sex (besides children and non consenting people being exposed to BDSM and fetishes), simply because it promotes safe and consensual sex, and knowing how babies are made makes for less unwanted "accidental" children being in bad situations. being an unwanted child can be horrible, especially if a parent resents you because they believe they missed opportunities because of you. or maybe I'm just crazy for wanting less people to think that conception happens when a man comes into a woman's belly button. who's to say.

[@aoifecraddock6164]

I did enjoy in Bridgerton how Violet (the mom) was like “we shall do what women do: *talk*” and used her wits and her charm to manipulate society and the men in her life into saving her daughter from a creep. She didn’t go charging in on a white horse and challenge the man to a duel, she used the things she had at her disposal at that time as a woman to speak up in the most quietly powerful way, a way no man could.

[@maitesoto1953]

Oh I *loved* that part. While I do love myself a good woman charging on a white horse challenging a man to a duel and not giving a fuck about how society dictates she should act, I have a soft spot for women who took charge of their lives and changed history without leaving traditional female roles. At the end of the day, wearing armour can be powerful, but you can also find power wearing a hoopskirt

[@shannonardo]

Agreed, I really enjoyed this detail as well! That there definitely existed a very real "happy medium" between the "quiet woman who did nothing" and the "woman who wore pants and acted like a man"!!!

[@chenmae9747]

Omg, my favorite part, I literally recorded on my iPad just to rewatch it was good

[@AlbertaRose94]

Works in modern times too. At least so I've heard, cough cough.

[@theatrekid-hi9207]

Yes, it was perfect and I love how it got it done way faster then in the time it took her brother to even consider a duel. And it ruined his life more then taking it would have.

[@Reicha]

This makes me think of my grandpa. He was wonderful in a few senses. One was that he was very strongly for women's rights, sexual liberation and basically all of the human rights stuff that happened in the past 100 years. When I came out accidentally (cause my nan was nagging me about contraceptives) as ace and trans - he stood up and clapped, shouting "Bravo!" xD One time when we were driving to see other family, we somehow got into sexual awareness. He was so honestly consternated about the fact that when he was a teen and in his early twenties - in the 30's and 40's - women his age didn't often know about sex. These things spread from boy to boy, as well as their fathers teaching them. On the other hand, he had found out to his horror, the women his age often had no clue. They were just told to not touch and kiss boys, basically. As well as encouraged *not* to speak of it. He was all kinds of upset for their sakes, so as far as I understood he started explaining sex to all his female aquaintances and encouraging them to spread the information. Because dammit, they need to know what they're getting into! He was *still*, these 60 years later, so mad about the fact that these women's mothers hadn't taught them about how children were made or about (the admittedly new concept) of contraceptives. Because this both put them at risk and it led to many of them ending up in loveless marriages due to feeling ashamed over getting pregnant. This was in Sweden, a country that likes to brag about being a world leader in these things. (9_9 Likes to brag, not so much to make sure that's how it is.) Not rurally. He grew up in a rich part of the capital. These things (what is manly, what is appropriate, sexual knowledge) obviously go in waves. People are obviously gonna be people. Or, I wish it was obvious to some. But humans seem to like things on a straight line, going from 0-100. So that's how we often paint history out to be, creating myths like these.

[@brooklynstaker4723]

Your grandpa sounds like he was an amazing person.

[@smallsingingelephants]

Your grandfather is such a wonderful person, I want to give him a medal and a big hug 💟

[@m0onm0th]

Your grandpa sounds awesome! I wish I could meet him

[@n.9310]

What a wonderful grandpa.

[@AditiPatwardhan-te8nx]

He really was a wonderful person!! Bravo!!

[@linseyspolidoro5122]

[4:25] this reminds me of how romantic kissing is not a universal thing that all humans deem necessary or even desirable to express intimacy or affection. There was one anthropological survey on this where 54% of the sampled cultures had no evidence of romantic kissing. Obviously this was just a sample and shouldn’t be mapped onto the entire world but it’s still extremely interesting that something you would think is so intrinsic or even instinctive actually is just a cultural norm.

[@rafyhay5916]

And then conversely some cultures had no kissing that wasn't sexual (the one I know is ancient mesopotamia but I think this was common in Europe before the "age of chivalry")

[@blacktigerpaw1]

I remember that paper. Europeans are unique for that.

[@tarawhittington5686]

Never knew there was a study on this- Cheers :)

[@rubym6178]

omg thanks I had no idea , honestly I never gave any thought into it , I always believed it was normal

[@luthy_1]

In my country it used to be very comom for a parent to kiss their child in the mouth as a sign of affection (just a little "peck" in the mouth) but most families don't do that anymore because PeDOpHiliA. Because now days a kiss MUST be something sexual and should never be used as anything but a sexual act🙄

[@anubispt6002]

Just wanted to add, that some women were "quiet, proper, wanting to have a family" because THEY WANTED to! We often see badass female characters in period dramas who know how to fight and stuff like that. But that doesn't mean that the other women were any less badass by liking that "woman stuff" Edit: typo and thanks for the heart meme mom

[@IonIsFalling7217]

Including Marie Antoinette, who didn’t want to be queen, just wanted to live in the country and who refused to allow a wet nurse to nurse her children because she loved being a mother so much. ❤️

[@Sydney-Casket-Base]

fyi the heart disappears when u edit ur comment!

[@anubispt6002]

@@IonIsFalling7217 oh I didn't know that! That's so cool!

[@anubispt6002]

@@Sydney-Casket-Base oh no :( I just noticed it. Oh well but at least meme mom saw it

[@ingloriousMachina]

Impossible. Women didn't have the ability to think for themselves until the hivemind of sisterhood reached enlightenment in 1960. All of their thoughts were that of the men who had a vise grip on them.

[@kaitlinr9735]

Honestly, even if Becky the Baker's Daughter was just raising the kids and taking care of the house, props to her cause that would be a lot of work

[@MiljaHahto]

She may have had a maid (or a few) to help her. Maids weren't just for the rich but anyone who could afford. Many of them were unmarried relatives.

[@genevievefosa6815]

Talking about young girls informing each other; I remember one of my girl friends, back when we were twelve and thirteen-years-old, announcing that women got pregnant when a man put his thing in your navel! I am sure that many of the Victorian girls were just as poorly informed. A booklet that was printed in the late 1800s for teenage girls,, gave a technical description of how flowers reproduce, and at the end said that people reproduce in much the same way. These descriptions would have left many girls wondering whether it would be safe to stand downwind from a boy.

[@searchforhortense8251]

we can actually find really cool examples from literature of how women actually acted brave or unladylike, like 'canterbury tales ' (13 century) /where a woman's suitor stand under her window begging for a kiss and she makes him kiss her bare ass/ or 'moll flanders' (18 century) /where a guy flirts with moll and gives her money, buys her stuff to seduce her and she just thinks - well, if only he knew he could do me right now without trying - she was married like 5-6 times and at age of 50 she became a cool thief and stuff/

so cool!

[@tamdarlugdach1428]

I wonder if Moll Flanders is based on Moll Cutpurse, a Thief and prominent member of the Elizabethan underworld in London. She was also used as a character in Dekkar's 'The Roaring Girl'. And Fagin in Oliver Twist is suspiciously similar to a gender swapped Moll. Complete with thief school.

[@solangereyes2489]

Sorry but what ever context you put in a thief is not a good thing.

[@Montaggg33]

Yeah, women in Canterbury Tales totally kick ass, like the miller's wife, who has almost beaten her husband to death because she took him for someone else xd

[@Montaggg33]

Kek

[@carelsby]

One thing about the covering the whole body: they didnt really have sunscreen. Zinc and stuff was used but not as a sun protectant, so they covered themselves to protect their skin from the sun!

[@myladyswardrobe]

This. Very important! Hats protect head, shade face and protect the facial skin. Linens protect decolletage, sleeves protect the arms. And we don't see men in states of undress either. They are all entirely covered up too. Fashion, modesty and practicality.

[@squidpaladin]

they had more of an ozone layer, too, so that made clothes-as-sunscreen much more effective than it would be today

[@katiemaedit]

I really enjoyed that she spoke about women of lower classes. I would love to delve more into this. We get so much of a representation of upper classes, which I think really skews history.

[@ryrvoch4345]

It really does. While there was, particularly in the nineteenth century, social ideal of keeping young women "innocent" (i.e., ignorant about sex; the actual motives were probably complex), this is something only the affluent could actually manage, as semi-Victorian observers like Shaw and Wharton pointed out. If you think about the lives of the majority of nineteenth century women, it's quite obvious they would typically have known something about sex from a fairly young age, even if they were not educated about it in the modern sense.

[@taylothlorien]

One of the courses I teach is "Women in Literature" and it is a constant effort on my part to get my students to understand that women have always worked, people have always been people, etc. They usually understand by the end of the semester.

[@ulaknap3239]

Victorian dresscode was literally less strict than my high school's... My (male!) classmate was once sent home for wearing 3/4 length pants in 30 degrees Celcius.

[@xenathornburg2416]

I hate how they push the dumb idea of, 'modesty,' like school is to prepare children for society, in society people are going to wear the shit the schools deem, 'suitable.' Its dumb!

[@DarthGibberish]

Culottes are a sign of frenchness. Of course they sent him home. ☺️

[@SM-qv2om]

a guy in my class was sent home because he wore an alice in chains shirt. the school didnt want us to "glorify drug addicts." meanwhile a girl got away with wearing a shirt that exposed her entire back, in the middle of winter. I swear they're just targeting people

[@alyssapinon9670]

@@SM-qv2om dress code rules are so arbitrary and stupid istg

[@punkrockjoanofarc]

Dress codes are just sexualizing people

[@MuseAndDionysus]

"Becky the Baker's Daughter" needs to be a thing Thanks for touching on this subject because you're right, women did not suddenly become aware of their surroundings in the 19th century

[@cyklohexan2469]

🎵 Becky the Baker's Daughter She's a lady of a class If you're the mannerless neighbour Her shaumrollen'll be your last 🎵 ..let that show be as bad as this tune

[@ThirrinDiamond]

@@cyklohexan2469 it's how becky would've wanted it ✊😔

[@Pennsylvania343]

Not to mention as people started to learn more about hygiene shorter skirts became more popular during the end of the Victorian era going into the edwardian period because you were less likely to track dirt, horse manure and bugs in the house with a shorter skirt

[@CorinaSha]

Im 100% sure that's common sense and it wouldn't be a problem if you....picked up the skirt ... Like they definitely did....

[@ThymeofGhost]

I think the reason why ankles were “scandalous” cause the baby maker was just further up there where as we already know boobs are just for feeding children so they weren’t sexual. Idk when boobs got sexualized but definitely a set back!

[@blacktigerpaw1]

Victorian era saw the birth of modern smut culture so that might have to do with it.

[@puszduszek]

+

[@brittanyw.9351]

I don't know when it started but I feel like the 80s really pushed the envelope on making formula the standard feeding method in America. I know so many people my parent's age who were mortified I was breast feeding.

[@tanyam9853]

From what I read, we can ‘thank’ some WWII era pinup artists, who must’ve had boob fetish or whatever, and so produced a lot of ahem, postcards featuring said boobs. Seeing a lot of something translates as ‘I guess we’re into this now’ by a depressingly large percentage of population, and thus boobs became a sex object.

[@juliac3933]

People have sexualized boobs for many centuries. Helen of Troy was said to have attractive breasts. It’s seeing them solely as sex objects which is a modern invention.

[@usehername1]

In Anne of Green Gables, the teen characters wanted skirts "as long as their mother would allow". So when teens in the late 90s were begging for their parents to let them out in shorter skirts, I guess teens in this era were begging for longer hemlines.

[@romulusthemainecoon3047]

YES! And in Rilla of Ingleside, Rilla was described as very tall with long legs, and her friends tried to beg her mother to let her wear longer skirts.

[@soccerchamp0511]

Yea, because during the period Anne of Green Gables is set in only older girls/women wore long skirts. Anne and her friends wanted to be seen as older and sophisticated, kind of like when teenage girls today wear clothes that make them look older.

[@gray_mara]

I went to a school where our uniform was a miniskirt. We had a four year campaign to allow us to wear longer skirts, which we finally won. The skirt we chose was mid calf. This was the 1990s.

[@soccerchamp0511]

@@gray_mara Your school uniform was a miniskirt?!? lol Yea, OK.

[@RumerPriestly]

@@soccerchamp0511 depends what you class as a miniskirt. My school uniform was a forest green tube skirt above the knee, and some girls wore them HELLA short. It’s been changed to a longer-than-knee-length pleated thing since I left, so I’d totally believe it.

[@dorotarawicz-lipinska1150]

Yep, listening to all the stories about delicate 'feminine women' in ye good olde days, and then you come across Elizabeth Wilkinson, 18th c. professional female boxer ;-)

[@myladyswardrobe]

There are a number if paintings and images in the 19th century of female fencers too!

[@captainahab5522]

There was a french opera singer that was very good at fencing and other stuff

[@xenathornburg2416]

There were even more like her, history just doesn't like to tell the full picture.

[@wherefancytakesme]

My favorite book series, which is Victorian-Edwardian, has a stuffy aunt saying "When _I_ was a little girl, we behaved properly!" to a kid in the damn Victorian era. The era most famous for being reserved. People acted out, just like they did from the dawn of time.

[@nawaffaiha402]

What was the book series called?

[@beebee8950]

Anne with an e? I remember a similar scene but I’m probably wrong

[@meridaskywalker7816]

@@beebee8950 "Anne with an E" is based on "Anne of Green Gables", but very loosely, so it doesn't represent the era accurately.

[@wherefancytakesme]

​@@beebee8950Late af, but you're actually close. It's Emily Of New Moon by the same author.

[@jamiebenson6079]

I love that you’re debunking these nonsense rumors

[@caroline2978]

Poor ppl from past: "Why should I act proper? I'm poor" Rich ppl from past: "I don't need to act proper, I'm rich"

[@nithyasreesathyanarayanan5611]

Tbh it's the middle class that goes on and on about modesty and decency nowadays. It has nothing to do with poor nor the rich, they have been the same as always.

[@mbilmey]

My friend studying Victorian literature was just telling me about Victorian sex-ed pamphlets she read. They're vague, but they existed.

[@Fatcat-ss6nh]

I can imagine a guy saying to a Victorian lady, “hey girl show me them cankles”

[@averyjeanne]

Someone please send this to Abby Shapiro and tell her that “classic” women didn’t care as much as she thinks they did.

[@blacktigerpaw1]

Or you can just watch footage of ultra Conservative Jews spitting at women in skirts.

[@1AnimeChannel]

@@blacktigerpaw1 Either way a bad idea, first won't give any change and later will leave a bad taste in the mouth.

[@n.c.pictures]

@@blacktigerpaw1 ew wtf

[@yair4291]

to be fair she is an orthodox jew, and orthodox jews have always cared as much as she does, and even more so. -a formally orthodox jew edit: I'm talking about clothing and modesty. I don't know how women were expected to act.

[@lainiwakura1776]

@@blacktigerpaw1 They're so misogynistic, they disgust me.

[@Carsonist]

I LOVE all the photos of historical women doing stuff we don't think of as "typical". It reminds us how much of our history has been erased by deliberate neglect.

[@petite2276]

Or how much we ignore

[@anaghas3207]

Yes the rock climbing, wow

[@markaurelius61]

Maybe some of the reason is the feminists erasing it to create the impression that they have changed everything.

[@spencechan]

It's funny how "traditional values" only go back, like, 80 years

[@valentinmitterbauer4196]

Society is just like political climate, things chance fast enough for people to notice, but slowly enough to not realise that your "good old times" were someone's nightmare, too. Especially when it comes to appearently old things who are not old at all, like ethno- nationalism. This mindset was a nightmare for certain empires, namely austria and the ottomans. In 1840, an austrian 'conservative' would advocate for a multiethnic society while a 'progressive' promoted the idea of national separation.

[@angelikaskoroszyn8495]

@Valentin Mitterbauer At certain point in Poland it was "progressive" to support king and centralize kingdom's power Nowadays it's exactly the opposite Political sytuation constantly changes and what worked in the past doesn't always work today. The problem is when you're surrounded by people saying "I don't read a book to know that the past was better"

[@Anonymous_Gambito]

That's usually it. I'm sick of folks saying that things were always a certain way "back then" and that it's the young people who changed or invented something, and then you see that this shit is coming from someone in their 40s who lived their whole life in some rural small town. I'd say, "you'd have to be at least two centuries old to tell me you know about the world", but then even if I did met a 200 year old person, I'd still say that they don't necessarily know more about the world than me, they only know how to be themselves. A person should know that there is a different world for each individual, for each thing actually, and none of them are more or less real.

[@valentinmitterbauer4196]

Another thing i found is a quote from Hesiod, a greek poet born before 700 BC who said: "I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond words... When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise [disrespectful] and impatient of restraint." The generation he complains about, by the way, contains Thales of Milet, the first west- eurasian to engage in scientific philosphy, basically one of the first scientists.

[@kittyplayz1480]

@drag0nfly_girl things change with time, honey, it has not always been the way you think it is. There are old paintings of women breastfeeding in church; many people in the Bible, including Abraham, kept slaves; during the Atlantic slave trade, people said God intentionally created Africans as less than Europeans in order to justify enslaving them. Your blind belief that your people have always been good and just is quite simply ignorant, speaking as someone who was raised Christian myself

[@catcheek7761]

Here’s some more knowledge I found out during a women’s history course! Edwardian Ladies would use flower arrangements as communication to other women! Each individual flower had its own meaning, but when you created a floral arrangement different flower combinations meant different things! My personal favorite is the language of the chrysanthemum’s! Depending on their color they said different things. This was basically women’s way of contacting and talking to one another quite freely. Another of my favorite things I learned (then I promise I’ll leave it alone, my adhd hyper-fixated on this era when I was a senior in Highschool 2018) The language of the fans! By holding their fans, or opening them a certain way they spoke without saying a word. For example! An open fan in your left hand meant “Come talk to me.” If the fan was closed and being held in the left hand it meant “I am engaged to be married.” If the fan was closed but being held in the right hand it means “I am single and would like to be married and meet possible suitors.” I love both the Language of the Flowers and the language of the Fans! The fan language was known by men and women. However when Men started to learn and try to catch on they women were saying they completely flippped the script. For now the language was only understood how women and women alone.

[@jessicaboyd3539]

In the US the term frequently used in place of “making girls aware” is many versions of “prepare her for her wedding night”

[@tracerbullet1741]

I've also heard a lot of people use the term "having the talk" also apparently some birds and bees metaphor is often used. but I'm not from english speaking country, this is just what ive heard in movies.

[@jessicaboyd3539]

@@tracerbullet1741 I was meaning historically, but yea true :)

[@The_miIk]

Personally I find it weird calling that, or even the modern terms.its so strange thats ex is a tabu even though its natural, but thats just me :]

[@fifibobeefy]

@@The_miIk weirdest part for me is that not everyone likes sex- including me- I'm asexual and the thought that people would think id uhm do the dirty with my partner the night after marriage disgusts me

[@The_miIk]

@@fifibobeefy yeah I know, I mean same, I just think "the birds and the bees" makes me feel more uncomfortable. :/ thats just me though. :]

[@thatonefigureskater1411]

My biggest pet peeve is people thinking that everyone (including aristocrats) prior to the 1910’s didn’t bathe and just smelled bad all the time.

[@elieli2893]

I mean... Not all the way to that point, no, but there definitely was a period when cleaning yourself in water was seen as profane or harmful, and it was a bragging point for the rich to have only bathed once or twice in their life...

[@shadow_phoenix_alex]

@@elieli2893 they might have bathed rarely, as in soaked in a tub filled with hit water, but they washed themselves regularly with soap, a sponge or something similar and a bowl of hot water. Lower classes didn't have the luxury of bathtubs and would have to use the local river to bathe, so not the best option, especially in winter. They to washed themselves regularly with soap and a bowl of hot water.

[@ingloriousMachina]

And how some people act as though the lower class had a choice, and were just inferior and enjoyed being filthy.

[@elieli2893]

@@nharber9837 Yeah... not to mention how the church at the time condemned taking off your clothes at all as immoral, and persecuted people for the slightest thing, I think that probably had a part in people's bathing habits...

[@blacktigerpaw1]

@@elieli2893 That wasn't true even during the Middle Ages.

[@Eisenwulf666]

While I think a lot of noble girls were advised/made aware of the facts of life by their mom/aunt/older sister/nanny, I'm sure farm or working-class girls were fully aware of how sex and baby making worked. 1)they bred animals, at some point someone must have told them why they were keeping a cock or a bull or whatever (since they don't lay eggs or produce milk) 2) houses weren't so big, having a private room was a luxury. When mommy and daddy wanted to do babies (or have fun) they more often than not woke up the children who were sleeping in the same room(if not in the same bed, albeit that would be a very poor family indeed, not unheard of though) 3)people in the countryside got married early and had a lot of kids, some sister or close relative probably already had numerous pregnancies and you better believe they helped during the birth(getting water, running for the midwife in the middle of the night because mommy was busy and daddy was unhelpful as often is the case, cleaning or just passing stuff). Only lonely kids from isolated cabins in the woods would have been a bit fuzzy on the matter, maybe.

[@ingloriousMachina]

That, and many working women were trained nurses by the latter half of the 19th century. They bathed wounded men, changed their bandages, and sometimes even made condoms by hand.

[@timetravelingshark8811]

@@ingloriousMachina What were condoms made of during that time? Was it still rubber, and how did they make them? (Sorry if that was a lot of questions, I just wasn't aware of the fact that condoms were even a thing back then and now I am _extremely_ curious lol)

[@Amy_the_Lizard]

@@timetravelingshark8811 Probably rubber or animal intestines

[@10Caramella]

Actually, chickens do produce eggs without a rooster

[@mayumimori3279]

yes. I think it worked exactly like it still works in poor regions (urban or rural) in which people are introduced very early to the sexual/romantic life.

[@marcusr4711]

Sense and Sensibility was my first Jane Austen novel, and i was hilariously shocked at the amount of references to sex, especially from Mrs. Jennings. they would go out on the town and she would be like “it’s to keep you ladies from making love with your suitors” or if something went wrong she would talk about how “they must’ve been seduced like old Brandon’s secret love child” or whatever. no matter the social norms, gossip was still a thing, lol.

[@livrowland171]

In those days making love didn't actually refer to sex though, it just meant flirting

[@mahuabhattacharjee3947]

Not to be that person, but as you mention Jane Austen the absolute queen - Tell me you read Pride and Prejudice without telling me you read Pride and Prejudice. {I need some serotonin boost from a fellow book addict}

[@SillySmoothtCollie]

As a tour guide of a US Civil War era cabin said to my college class tour. "See this room? (About 12 ft x16 ft) This is where they lived, cooked, this is where they slept. All 8 of them. Please don't tell me the kids didn't know how babies are made. They probably knew more then most of you"

[@drea4864]

"Women were speaking up all the time. They just weren't necessarily heard." Exactly! As for every discriminated and oppressed group of people. Because it took a lot of time to improve things, doesn't mean it was because these people were passive or just silent. They definitely spoke up and acted against their oppression, but people in power and circumstances impeded their actions from coming out as successful

[@ThermicLight]

Women just got the right to vote for free without the equal responsibility of military service Tell me again how women weren't necessarily heard?

[@drea4864]

@@ThermicLight never heard of patriarchy, huh? And they didn't get it for free, they had to fight for it. That's fact.

[@ThermicLight]

@@drea4864 - Patriarchy according to who? If by the feminist theory then their ideological approach takes on religious like convictions. Before most men earned voting rights they literally had to pay with their blood. No such burden was put upon women. Hence they got it for free. Even today women's voting rights aren't conditioned by selective service.

[@righthomosphere7962]

it's easy to blame everyone but yourself. it's your responsibility to direct your life, not society's. alse women were not oppressed. they chose that role because it was convenient. just remember the empress of russia Catherine the Great.

[@drea4864]

@@righthomosphere7962 you have clearly no idea what you're talking about. Instead of telling women about how non existend (allegedly!) their experiences with all kinds of discrimination were and are, why don't you educate yourself about sexism and the roles men play in it?

[@Ogaitnas900]

Uhm excuse me that mountain climbing pic was freaking awesome.

[@sunniejmh]

I saw that too!

[@jorgesaenz8986]

Respect

[@zurinepinalandaburu4870]

"In ye old times women were prude and modest". Well, my great-grandmother was pregnant when she got married. They never talk about it, but it was not so inusual. So yes, women were not so modest and well-mannered.

[@Kitty-mb4hy]

They say my great aunt got married while pregnant with another man's child. She, like, came up to my great-grandfather, told him she is pregnant and he went to her fiance's family and arranged their wedding. I honestly don't know if the fiance knew that's not his child, I hope either he did or that's a legend that never actually happened.

[@BillLaBrie]

Back in the good old days, most people got married because “they had to.” Why? Because someone magically got pregnant. It must have been magic, because there was no sex before marriage. Oh no no that would have been most improper!

[@elidor8193]

To each other?

[@markpostgate2551]

The gift of a red rose is a symbolic promise to be discrete. What the amorous young man is saying when he gives his girlfriend a rose is whatever happens between us I promise I won't brag about. It comes from a Greek myth in which Eros gives a rose to the god of silence for the promise to protect his mother's reputation by getting men not to talk about it. Hence the rose means "I promise I won't tell." And then marriage itself is referred to as "making an honest woman of her" because it doesn't have to be a secret anymore after that.

[@andreastytzer8194]

My great grandmother once wrote in a letter to some family in the 20s or 30s that they shouldn’t worry about what her fiancé had seen when she crawled up a latter in front of him, as he’d already seen a lot more... I’m proud to be named after her!

[@sumvs5992]

It scares me that if we ever invent time travel, there could be reports from 1800s of roaming gangs of people saying "WOAH LOOK AT HER ANKLES, BURN THE WITCH, AHAHAHA" and then running away.

[@luuuuux_]

Those people would be so confused

[@banjotiki3910]

🤣🤣🤣🤣 Would be hilarious honestly

[@movedaccountscyayalls7119]

"omg ankles" "BURN HER"

[@avuaronar6815]

JUST IMAGINE THAT HAPPENINY AHD

[@aleinad34]

i adore this comment so much

[@whyamidoingthis5236]

If I remember correctly, I think there were 'salons' in the 18th century in which women had such an influential role in intellectual discussion that they were eventually banned.

[@blacktigerpaw1]

Yes. In France they dominated the scene, and would have been fully admitted to university had the Jacobins not gone so extreme. In a time of social persecution, university is the last of their concerns.

[@yasmineed-daoudi6023]

oh, and the Bluestocking club! In the late 18th century

[@fruzsimih7214]

There were salons from the 17th century to the early 1900s. They were usually led by rich women with many social connections. That was a perfectly normal thing.

[@ampharos6420]

@@blacktigerpaw1 It's more complex than that. There aren't really 'Jacobins' as one single unified faction, or any at all really, you have to look at individuals in the moment, and the women's societies themselves could be radical, even extreme, to the point of being kind of a pain to deal with. They're not just unfortunate victims of an impossible situation (which is impossible in significant part due to external factors and not anything anyone is doing) spiralling out of anyone's control, they're a contributing factor. Popular men's societies were banned too. Some more Marxist historians may however disagree with me based on the opposite argument of 'things not being extreme enough, should've listened more to the people, including the women'.

[@blacktigerpaw1]

@@ampharos6420 My point is significant is that men were allowed to go to university, and women were not. Men were considered citizens, women were not.

[@b.d6642]

That "dayum" you put next to the picture of the guy made my day

[@daffo595]

I think part of the reason why we have such skewed perceptions of damsels in distress trying to fight oppression in historical fiction is because most of these fiction are written around the upper crust of society who have a certain set of problems. Whereas if it was focused on more working class women we can get to see a more nuanced depiction of female characters who weren’t necessarily making intellectual speeches about the patriarchy but live their lives being strong and independent women by taking over their family bakeries and becoming the head of the family.

[@vilwarin5635]

You just reminded me of the novel North and South of E gaskell. The female main character found herself in the middle of the industrial revolution and her love interest is seen as a cruel coolbloded boss. She changes him and has a hand on the improvement of the workers condition, not because she makes a speech (like a modern film would do), but because her pureness and good heart inspire those around her. She basically showns that human explotation is bad, and no one deserves to be treated that way. Is a very feminine way to change the world, but it works. (also, there is a strong input from the Union, but that is a story for another day). Also, she only accept to marry him when she is richer than him, which is a nice touch

[@shipperina2213]

@@vilwarin5635 8not something I would expect Scrooge to say

[@dezbiggs6363]

In the book Husband Hunters, there was a daughter about to be married who reportedly begged her mother to tell her what happened on a wedding night and her mom freaked and told her not to ask such inappropriate things. The only information she gave her is that she has seen statues of naked men and must have noticed how they were different than woman. How the sterotype probably started, same with tight laced corsets, is that there were one or 2 examples and someone applied that to everyone.

[@ingloriousMachina]

Kind of like the outlandish theories about the female body that a few middle aged doctors came up with, and people decided ALL Victorians thought this way. Doctors weren't even highly respected in society back then. They were just regular middle class men, and even nutjobs to some people.

[@Shadeadder]

for the ankle/skirt length thing, appropriate depends on the context! it's kinda like wearing a swimsuit to the beach vs a restaurant. even though its the same outfit, in one context its acceptable and the other its seen as inappropriate.

[@angelictrublemaker5064]

Not all parents tought there kids, my granny didn't know what periods were and thought she was bleeding internally from a first fight sure got in

[@jessicakakern4571]

"You have to know what is wrong to avoid doing the wrong thing" Best words of advice for parenting disobedient kids who are too sheltered

[@fashionthegreat7490]

People today: women of past centuries were physically oppressed by their clothing. Ladies of the past: *wear no undewear* Mic drop.😎💣

[@cestalia]

Also ladies in the past: Bitch, I own this bakery *smack you with baguette*

[@hierismail]

I also think everyone tends to forget that not having a job as a woman and caring for the household wasn't a bad option for everyone. It doesn't have to be a bad option in this century. But because the market has adjusted to families with double income, it's not a viable option in this day and age. Take my sister, she has always wanted to be a mother, an active housewife: looking after her kids, being a part sporting clubs and school events, while having a life of her own during school hours and after bedtime. She has always known that she will actually have to combine that dream with having to work, at least parttime. And while I am quite the opposite of that, I've always felt bad that she will have to compromise, just to be able to afford a house.

[@sylviamaike6866]

This is a really good point. It's interesting that the expectation of double income has actually restricted some women's options (though I realize that for the very poor, work work work of some kind has always been the expectation).

[@iceprincess2134]

This really depends on where you live and your spending habits. People in my area (a major city) are always in awe of how I can afford to stay home with my kids even though they make way more than my husband. Having looked it over the simple fact is a lot of people are TERRIBLE with money. They buy stuff they don't need or use, are wasteful, don't make anything themselves, have no productive hobbies, have misconceptions like 'junk food/fast food is cheaper than whole foods', have credit card debt that they could pay off that don't, regularly pay bills late (accidentally), etc. It's almost like domestic skills were scrapped because "everyone's going to have a career now" while forgetting that everyone needs them whether they have a job or not.

[@ingloriousMachina]

I've always dreamed of being a housewife because it appeals to my meticulous and admittedly sometimes obsessive nature when it comes to sorting, cleaning, and managing money. In addition, I know many skills such as writing, drawing, crocheting, and sewing that I can make extra money off of in my downtime.

[@AngieChimpanzee]

Many women have always “worked” throughout history, it’s not anew thing. This is a class thing. It was/is a sign of being upper and upper-middle class for the wife not to have to work outside the home. (Almost all women, except the most elite, work / have worked inside the home.)

[@bjulalula9537]

I'd loved be a housewife. But i would loose all respect from the people around me

[@kathyoverton998]

As far as understanding sex and where babies came from, it seems many would understand about how sex works from seeing animals. This would especially be the case for the working class but the upper class would still see pets and horses having sex and having babies.

[@brianmead7556]

In much of the working class and lower class due to current living conditions, it would be very common to see people having sex. Privacy as we have, it wasn’t invented until very recently.

[@teresarivasugaz2313]

Meme Mum was brought to this Earth to educate the masses, bless her Highness. P.S. The more I watch videos made by fashion historians/very well-read aficionados about Bridgerton, the less I feel like watching it (I wasn't much interested in it tbh).

[@TurtleChad1]

*A turtle approves of the meme mom*

[@doraaqq]

@@TurtleChad1 Omgg hii turtle I see you everywhere

[@ingloriousMachina]

It took one viewing of that show for me to despise it.

[@suhani551]

My friend loves that show. I told her that I would never watch it cause it's not historically accurate. Outlander is better and much more interesting 💫

[@briggyb]

See, I love the show simply because it's clear that they weren't trying to be historically accurate. They definitely took an artistic license when designing. I think it's brilliant.

[@DragonriderEpona]

Thank you for making this video. I study history at Uni so seeing all these stereotypical portrayals on the media and in comment sections always confuse me or make me upset because if you study the sources and read between the lines and try to think in the mindset of that time, more often than not, those portrayals are not very accurate (to put it nicely). And this, unfortunately, apllies to all times of history.

[@ToriaDumOfTheTweedle]

I have a book from 1901 called "The Perfect Woman" and it's basically a sex education book

[@horseenthusiast9903]

Oh, interesting? Would you mind sharing what's in it? It's not really my era of interest, but I love learning about the history of sexuality and sex education, so I'd be interested to hear what that author found pertinent.

[@Hi-vn3oq]

@@horseenthusiast9903 samw

[@EmilyHernandez-jt4cs]

Share pls

[@AditiPatwardhan-te8nx]

Where can I find it?

[@heirofslytherin9808]

Pls share

[@acaciarose2578]

Haha so true about that my grandmother was living in a time where it wasn't common for women to work. That never stopped my grandmother from sneaking out the window everyday to work as a seamstress. Just like we all find a way, women then definitely found a way.

[@lauragray19]

She was living in a time when *all* women worked, except maybe the queen. They just didn't have much choice as to their occupation.

[@acaciarose2578]

@@lauragray19 Not exactly she wasn't living in a western society she was living in China, and gender roles back then were STRONG. If you were a daughter, in a traditional chinese home, you cooked cleaned and got married. Liberation for women is a lot different in other countries.

[@lauragray19]

@@acaciarose2578 And what are cooking, cleaning and caring for children, if not work?

[@destinyhntr]

@@lauragray19 Yes. I don't understand why caring for children and cleaning isn't work if it's for your own family, but if you're a maid or nanny then it IS a job. Really talking down women throughout all of history, acting like they were the rich ladies just sitting around doing nothing.

[@Wika-jt1rg]

Honestly, classical literature has a lot more interesting female characters then today's films or series. Sure, many of the novels were written by men and show how they viewed women, but they still represent them better then modern media. Not to mention novels written by women, I find it super interesting how they describe female characters, their thoughts, dreams, wants, feelings - just beautiful!

[@LaVaneBea]

True. Most modern characters are super preachy and all blending together into smashing us in the head with the feminist tantrums they throw. (which is not the same as well thought out arguments re: women's issues).

[@cyncynshop]

Then I recommend Four Winds, published this year. It's about America's Dusk Bowl era and a mother who has to decide to leave Texas for a chance at a better life or stay with her community and fight. Classic literature can be easily seen as having more depth because they are the cream of the corp, whereas good works are constantly being published in a saturated market nowadays. I think it's unfair to judge "Modern" woman characters as less deep and interesting when modern era literature can encompass literally everything.

[@janetmorgan9728]

Yes, and it’s interesting to remember that the woman’s weakness in Dracula can be seen as satirical and even tongue-in-cheek as the men in the book are constantly set back in their goal to defeat Dracula by their desire the “shield” the woman. I think modern readers miss this because everyone is so conditioned to expect only one attitude about women in history.

[@cayreet5992]

@@miraggg where exactly is Mina ever delicate, weak, or scared? Apart from the scene where she's force-fed Dracula's blood, Mina is one of the most intelligent and overpowered characters in the whole book.

[@susanalopez5052]

Weird, when I read Dracula I was surprised by how outspoken and driven Mina was allowed to be

[@corhydron111]

if you're Polish, the podcast Lewy Interes just put out an episode where they read early 20th century Polish feminist texts and one of them features letters from then-teenagers, who sound remarkably intelligent, outspoken and assertive, no less in fact than the kids who are now Gen Z or young Millenials.

[@corhydron111]

oh and they were also keenly interested in politics

[@sunniejmh]

I wish I spoke polish so I could listen and understand sounds like an incredible podcast

[@seabreeze4559]

western iqs have gone down since the victorian era, there was a study

[@brittanybrown744]

I loved this! I especially loved how you presented the complexity of the issue! I honestly believe it helps no one to either glorify or demonize the past! Let it be known as the chaotic hot mess it deserves to be!

[@RenateRainbow]

I remember learning that lesson in a women’s history course in college. When a bunch of college girls in 2013 enter a class like that, we immediately looked at women of the past as nothing but victims. The first thing our professor taught us is that it isn’t the job of the historian to judge the past and we were taking away the agency of those past women by judging them through a modern lense and ignoring all the ways they did find and have power within the confines of their time. For example even before women could vote, they still had political influence by hosting parties and events supporting certain candidates and causes or just telling their husbands about candidates.