Compressor Replaced...STILL NO A/C?? (Honda Civic)

Shopped called me in to diagnose a no-A/C complaint on this 2003 Honda Civic.
They installed a reman compressor, but it's not turning on!
Also, for some reason the cooling FANS kick on when the key is ON, but shut off when the engine starts... WEIRD!
Lets take a look at the A/C control wiring diagram, and do some basic electrical checks to 100% accurately pinpoint the problem.
The key to this diagnosis is understanding how the system is designed to function.
Then we can perform a "MANUAL BYPASS" test, substituting a test light for the control module.
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ASTRO AMP CLAMP:
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Enjoy!
Ivan

[@vpimike2646]

Wow! This is exactly how I got started working on my cars and avoiding the "pros". A lot of incompetent and dishonest parts swappers out there. These people obviously don't know what they are doing.

[@mikechiodetti4482]

You told them the controller not the push button assembly. The final outcome is now the system works. The other shop messed up, it's their fault. Good one Ivan.

[@mariosaccoccio1688]

You diagnosed the problem, told them to replace the module, and they replaced the switches. Wow! Pearls before swine.

[@joekuntzman4016]

One day PHAD will have the most subscribers of any automotive channel on KZbin! The best troubleshooting without any nonsense. He makes videos about the diagnosis and repairs without making them about himself that's a rare quality nowadays. Great job as always!

[@Yoji808]

If you like this channel.. sure you will love south maine auto channel as well (its one of the featured channels here... ) Eric O is AWESOME and does really good diagnostics.

[@joekuntzman4016]

@@Yoji808 yeah that channel is good too

[@LesReeves]

As I mentioned in a reply to a hearted comment my Ivan has only sem-retired & he fixed my Nissan with the immobilser problem & saved me approx.$3,200 aud as I do not have to purchase another vehicle with towing & parts & labour being $880 & now registration & insurance $850.00 aud I have my 20 year old faithful road worthy for another year ( approx full cost $1800 aud ) so happy with my Ivan Cheers to you Ivan for another great video.

[@mike_svt93]

Still have my 95 Civic EX Coupe that had a similar problem (intermittent AC operation). Pulled the AC/Heater control assembly and soldered cold connections primarily at the mechanical AC switch. Couple of other switches that controlled air flow direction also had cold connections causing intermittent issues. Installed and problem cleared. Another couple of hundred miles and she'll hit 300K.

[@fredautos]

,300k miles for an Honda engine. I'm not surprised. Very reliable

[@calholli]

So the shop still sold them a compressor and a "button" module that they didn't need. Wow.. I'm so glad I work on my own cars. Every part that I've gotten wrong for myself was a lesson learned. I couldn't imagine being forced to pay for someone else's mistakes. smh. This industry is rough in that way. I wish there was a system for guaranteeing a diagnosis/ repair without going to civil court. What a mess

[@bertblue9683]

Funny, because I was getting ready to Google HVAC controller because I wasn't sure which part you were talking about. I wondered if it was the ac button or the knob. Then your bonus section clarified it.

[@cypeman8037]

Did you explain to the garage where the engine was and what it’s function was and that the four round objects were the wheels?

[@wetlandweasel]

And lose a client and business? Are you actually thinking with your head?

[@cypeman8037]

Irony and sarcasm obviously aren't in your vocabulary.

[@LouJustlou]

Clearly a case of excessive dash dinos. 😊 Great video thanks!

[@RipCityBassWorks]

The shop somehow misfired the parts cannon despite you telling them exactly what part to replace...

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

😆

[@Jozefdul]

😅😅

[@geriscape]

This shop seems like one to avoid. Firing the parts cannon AND failing to comprehend your diagnosis, to boot! These folks, while willing to acknowledge their limitations, don't seem to, well, be able to think through diagnostics, even when you hand them the correct diagnosis on the proverbial silver platter.

[@tecnaman9097]

Just about to go to bed here in Melbourne Australia and up pops Ivan...bed delayed.

[@farmermiyagi1338]

How dare they question your diagnostic!! LOL!! Oh I've got myself a head banger today Ivan. 2.4 Malibu. Came from another shop. P0335. Ugh!! They replaced sensor, connector, and PCM. Good crank signal at the PCM at all times, then suddenly the tach goes dead and the scanner shows no RPMs, but I still have a great signal from the crank sensor to the PCM. Long crank time. As soon as I get some of the physical work out of the way, I will be banging my head on that one today. Good times.............................

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Sounds fun! Scope to the rescue!

[@farmermiyagi1338]

@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Yeah, but I gots to do the physical work before I can play with the scope. Always the minion............... 🤣

[@farmermiyagi1338]

@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics I'm still sitting on this Malibu. Found out that the sensor they installed was aftermarket, so I insisted on a Delco sensor. No one can get one other than the dealer, and that's 5 days out. Must be a popular item. ;) I hate beached whales in my shop or parking lot.

[@htownblue11]

I’m 2:44 in and I bet someone replaced the dash buttons and put on the connector backwards? Without a wiring diagram that may be a dumb hypothesis as it could be ground side switched by the buttons. Either way strange symptoms. Ivan is the KING!

[@prs44]

i am just mind blown that a shop can be this incompetent. You are the master.....there is much you can teach them.

[@ryans413]

HVAC controls are the heat fan cool and zone controls everyone knows this like come on.

[@MTLeopold]

Appreciate the way you edited the video down. It's concise and shows just the steps involved in the diagnosis. Sometimes I enjoy the WTF moments but if you are trying to teach, doing it this way is much better. Maybe having the outtakes at the end and a title card about rabbit holes that didn't pan out in-between each cut would be good as well. If you did that to your back catalog I'd think you could get to a point where you could sell an access fee to shops as a reference guide. Always gotta plan for the future right? Thanks for the all the videos and keep em coming. 👍👍

[@polok890]

I still love you honda, but loved you more 20 years ago

[@mikefoehr235]

Great diagnosis. That shop threw away a good AC compressor in all likelihood. That can't be cheap. $800 or more is my guess.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Maybe... It is unlikely that the system would have 2 problems simultaneously... 🤔

[@castinn]

It blows my mind that the compressor was replaced without checking to see if there was any voltage being sent to energize the compressor clutch!

[@AlanBurnham]

Reman AC compressors are cheap for old Civics. Maybe the compressor was toast anyway; I'd hate to think a shop would think a shop would put a compressor in when the clutch wouldn't engage. Then again, that shop bought a multifunction switch instead of an HVAC control module. 🤣

[@abdul-kabiralegbe5660]

​@@castinn I think many people just see it as "we can't see anything visually wrong with the wires, wires don't move, so rhe bad part has to be the component powered by the wires or the component that has moving parts". It's just an intuition based on not properly estimating the ability of wiring to malfunction while it's just there "minding it's business". And then again, mechanical stuff is to a larger extent more intuitive to people. That's my hypothesis about why some techs do things like this.

[@unclemarksdiyauto]

Nice diag and repair. I could see how the shop misunderstood what part was broken. At least all is working now. (Interesting even Hondas break!)

[@NoName-oe8ii]

kick my feet in the AIR when i see a new video drop

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

😎

[@madmike214]

I've actually ran into this on the same car about 7 years ago... Wired in a switch like you said. This was for a guy that flipped cars so he didn't really want to spend any money replacing them HVAC unit lol

[@publicmail2]

I serviced electronics for 40 years, customers would usually think the power switch is bad when a unit won't turn on. That's as far as they know.

[@ryans413]

Pressure switch controls everything if it ain’t happy nothing works. In this case it was a faulty controller

[@RotoRCol]

I have seem a lot of comments telling this shop is a parts cannon, maybe yes with the compressor but in the other hand, I think this mistake can be done by anybody, since there are two panels, you would think the control is inside the panel where is the AC switch and not the second control unit, why honda would send a ground from that switch to a second control panel and in this case Ivan is pointing the whole time to this AC switch, I think Ivan here made a mistake of not referring the exact part that failed, I would think the same as the shop that the bad part is this switch and the controls inside not sending it to ground, but obviously we all make mistakes and nobody is perfect and Ivan is an excellent and honest tech

[@sprograt]

Good Morning Ivan from a cold and windy Uk, thanks for the video.

[@user-my7hv5ld7b]

the shop tried to cheap out on the parts cannon good job on setting them straight. and get the bad part replaced

[@pootthatbak2578]

Company! A- TEN- SHUN! LOAD PARTS CANNON, ready aim FIRE!😂

[@gaad7938]

In the case of the parts cannon, the correct sequence is: Ready, Fire, Aim (optional).

[@robertlacob8831]

Hey Ivan, you know you can lead a horse to water but can't make him drink! Between you and SMA, there seem to be a lot of bad shops with no diagnosis abilities. You got job security man!

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Ha with these modern computerized cars, job security is guaranteed! 😁

[@JoseSilveira-newhandleforYT]

Great diagnostic, Ivan! Seems the shop couldn't tell the HVAC controller from the control buttons 🙂 Too bad they took out a seemingly good compressor, for nothing.

[@nigerbear2642]

What were the last names of the owner and workers of the shop? Might be close to yours.

[@Micko350]

Ivan you must be teaching me to 'speak' Rushin' because the first thing I thought was he'll just put a Toggle Switch on it! 🤣

[@scottnusser6232]

Load that cannon boy's!😂 Something is bound to stick. Man that shop needs help!

[@xaoz5915]

Good diagnosis of my 2003 civic ex has the same problem

[@jcos55chev19]

I would have also checked the grounds going to the hvac controller. Notice that the green "ON" lamp is just barely illuminated.

[@sohailrabani]

Before completing intro i knew its hvac module as i have lot of experience with these cars...cheers sir its

[@glenharper3136]

Thanks for the video Ivan.

[@RedArwBus]

i had a no start issue with my car and 4 mechanics couldn't find it- found a mechanic who was recomended and he did a complete electrical and found that there was a bad wire in the harness from the battery which had to be ordered from ford and it also fried the neutral safety switch which fixed it

[@tallbrian100]

I have fixed a lot of Hvac control units for 91 - 2005 NSX's, also put the year of the car in your title so people can find it when they do a search.

[@baxrok2.]

Thanks Ivan!

[@topher8634]

I had to replace HVAC control panel on my GF's 99 Accord. Nothing worked on hers. No fan, heat or air. Car didnt even have 60K on it. Honda dicked around until warranty expired. I put a used one on it because A new one was almost 600 bucks. 10K later the automatic transmission failed for the first time and left us stranded in Myrtle Beach, SC.

[@carlosanzola2938]

Love the dinosaurs on the dash. What is your favorite dinosaur?

[@r.weaver3769]

I know plenty of parts changers. Shop owners I worked for liked the parts changer better than diagnosticians, "Get them cars out quick, we'll worry about it if it comes back". Then I was tasked with actually fixing it, free. I still made more money than the parts changers.

[@emalaret6]

Love your videos, thank you.

[@robpeabo509]

Looks like they bought a secondhand push button assembly. I guess they also bought a secondhand control module. Honestly the fact they bought the wrong part does not give me confidence in them. Surely they would have access to the online manuals and should have checked what the were buying looked like the part the needed. This should be an additional charge. Not so much for your diagnosis time again, I think you did that more for us, your viewers. At the end of the day you spent time getting there and going back home or to your next job..

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

They might not even have a subscription to AllData... Which blows my mind 😅

[@thangnguyen590.55]

@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics just throw in parts and pray some how it'll fix the problem,

[@allaboutstuff2688]

I had the same issue with my 2002 civic. I ended up changing the control panel and worked great after..👍👍

[@ppeterson9359]

Looked like my MGB roadster sitting next to the Civic in the first part of the video.

[@DortuAirCond_ACmobil]

Analyze the problem properly. 👍

[@Jennifer-xz8ic]

Had a car come in the shop with a/c not working. 5 minutes looking at it, service manager says what's wrong with it. We need to get it fixed fast. Told him no power to the a/c clutch. He said install a new clutch, that model car is known to have bad a/c clutches. I said I don't think that's what the problem is, I'm not done looking at it. He orders a clutch, insists it be installed. Still didn't work. Turned out to be a bad pressure switch. This was a large 10 bay shop that worked on county vehicles and public vehicles.

[@wackey3455]

lovley work Excellent

[@davidhollfelder9940]

Before the “parts cannon” was coined, we called it the “shotgun approach”. You have to be gifted and talented (and passionately dedicated) to fix cars. Most are not.

[@dennisthomas4766]

I had a 03 expedition that the hvac controller was bad and the guy didn't want to buy a controller so I put it on a toggle switch under the hood and during the summer months he would turn the switch in the on position and winter months he would turn it off and it worked great for him

[@lorrainebwoy]

I love ❤️ these videos

[@viktorzizic8090]

Tnx man good video😊😊

[@hobosaur4250]

This is that special kind of frustration. Like when you tell your grandpa he needs to restart his computer and he turns the monitor off instead of the actual computer.

[@robarnt6]

I AM a Grandparent, and THAT'S funny!!

[@raymondhorvatin1050]

Fantastic

[@RussellBooth1977]

In my Holden Commodore it was a bad ABS module which kind of was interfering with the body control module which was intermittently causing the same sort of problem. The air conditioning compressor would intermittently cut out then in !

[@robpeabo509]

I think the root issue was that it was a Holden and not a Ford 🤣🤣🤣🤣.

[@rickchowsr2532]

Weird time of the year to fix the AC 😂. Some one doesn’t know their parts. Switch panels and controllers are two different things

[@davidquinn6161]

This video could have been made months ago. And not uploaded till today.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Yeah in PA you might need the AC maybe in July and August haha

[@davidquinn6161]

Ivan normally mentions if the work he's doing is for a dealer.

[@richardnilsen8950]

One song comes to mind Communication breakdown by led zepplin 😂

[@billwilson3665]

While your at it investigate the cel

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Just an EVAP code lol

[@davidraezer5937]

It’s possible the clutch coil might have spiked the driver in the A/C control panel but more likely the relay coil since that is the direct connection to the driver. Why else do small drivers fail. I guess I’m giving credit to the shop for basis diagnosis skills. First thing I do is bypass the low pressure switch briefly then move to bypass the relay, then work my back into the circuit if yes for the first 2. Actually my first step is to pull up the wire diagram.

[@user-cw7pm4vc1x]

A Launch could activate the compressor and check the relay.

[@jerryking2418]

Another brilliant diagnostic. Have you considered starting a school on auto diagnostics?

[@nbrowser]

I've had quite a few Honda's of this vintage come thru my shop for A/C inop complaints...oddly enough in most cases the A/C clutch relay craps out after some time of use up here. I always keep a couple of those relays in my toolbox and without even doing much work I just pull the car in, leave it running and with the A/C on and just throw a relay in, 90$ of the time the clutch kicks in and it's fine.

[@johndesaavedra1040]

We had a 2007 and the relays were notoriously unreliable. My first inclination was to switch relays which fixed the problem.

[@teekay_1]

This matches my experience that it's rare that an A/C compressor goes bad; more likely high/low sensor switches, leaks, or even a bad resistor in the climate control panel. You'd think if they were confused which panel to replace they might have called you? Nope. Just ordered the cheapest part of the control system. No doubt they charged the customer for replacing all the parts. As a famous cartoon character would say "what a bunch of maroons"

[@brainndamage]

What's weird is that somehow the voltage is still getting pulled down slightly. Transistors usually fail completely shorted or open, not partially. I would take a look if there is an internal fuse (maybe even a resistor) on the transistor output.

[@robpeabo509]

The thing is that the electronics all work together to achieve the desired outcome. Using the transistor as an example, an open or shorted transistor does not necessarily mean the whole device stops working, The effect on the circuit or circuits will alter from what was intended, not necessarily go up in smoke. In this case the voltage was not pulled down in the part of the circuit where it needed to be pulled down to provide the necessary potential difference across the module for it to function as designed. Excuse my terminology, I am not an electronics technician, and it has been a long time since I undertook circuit analysis of electronic boards, and even then it was one semester of some study I was doing, never to be used again in my job.

[@timd1833]

@@robpeabo509 That 4 v to 6 volt transition was probably due to current running thru adjacent circuitry (resistors) connected to a defective (open probably) transistor. I am an electronic tech (for 50+ years).

[@mikebaz7843]

Fun one for you, a W177 A45 mercedes knows when the 4-pin pressure and temperature sensor is replaced in the AC line and requires a teach-in procedure or else it refuses to read any input, lol

[@aymenmohamed1134]

Awesome

[@cullenmiller8170]

Nice video and diagnosis. I guess the third time was the charm. 😂

[@crisprtalk6963]

only 90K miles? Still new!

[@abdul-kabiralegbe5660]

In the defence of ths shop having replaced the wrong part, Ivan loaded the parts cannon with the correct ammo (HVAC module) but maybe didn't point the cannon in the correct direction, so they missed the target all the same. 😂

[@austenj4539]

I bet that the original compressor was still good!

[@1MiketheMechanic]

I would assume you also checked the grounds at the heater control module? Assuming they are good on a pull down circuit leaves you open for a misdiagnosis.

[@YoutubeHeroes1982]

I wonder what the Shop Powerprobed on that system before you got there Ivan:)

[@gutsngorrrr]

Wow, even with you giving the the correct diagnosis, they still managed to go out and get the wrong part. Did they not have a service manual, showing the what the part was, was it incompetents or just laziness.

[@michaelnomura5196]

I love air conditioning jobs where you don’t have to tear apart the entire dashboard.

[@greghanlon2235]

Good diagnosis Ivan. Did you charge the shop for second visit (aka Knucklehead Return)?

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

No charge for this follow up... But next time I will LOL

[@greghanlon2235]

@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Attaboy. Lessons learned when paid for are best remembered.

[@fredautos]

Ivan 👍

[@Dirtyharry70585]

Some people dont listen

[@NVRAMboi]

Ivan, you do realize you're going to have to create/open a technician's school, right? Thanks for the video.

[@peterhodgkins6985]

Jeeze - Even when you tell 'em what's wrong they can't figure it out! I feel bad for people who do business with shops like that. :/

[@WillKlaver]

.. how come a 'repair shop' didn't know the Controller from a 'hole in the ground' essentially.. ⁉️🤨🤔🙄

[@systemloading6875]

How long did it take you to diagnose this issue?

[@gaad7938]

Did the customer get charged for replacing the wrong part ? Probably a stupid question.

[@BehindTheCounter_TFSO]

Let’s step back and recap what just happened. The customer's original complaint was no A/C. The shop diagnosed a bad compressor and replaced the AC compressor with a re-manufactured. After replacing the compressor, the customer still has no A/C. Ivan called in and verified that the AC compressor had no power due to a faulty HVAC module. The shop owner ordered a switch cluster from the salvage yard instead of ordering an HVAC module. The shop owner calls Ivan in for the second time, but the AC is still not working. Ivan verifies that the AC module was never replaced. As a shop owner, how can you salvage the situation and maintain your customer's trust? (A) You apologize to the customer for the misdiagnosis, refund their money for the reman compressor job, and charge only for the HVAC module to rectify the situation or (B) You blame everyone else except yourself and charge the customer again. I’m going with B. Iran on your second visit, I hope the shop at least treated you to lunch.

[@11begood31]

Hate to talk bad about these shops but if they have no understanding of circuit pathways integrity they shouldn't mess with it also nice watching your videos from a non mechanic armchair quarterback

[@mazdarx7887]

hehehe My friends 2001 civic had AC issues, lots of money spent to not fix it. But what works is disconnect battery, turn everything on, connect battery and AC works for one to 3 months. Repeat each time the AC fails. Honda, engineered to fail and expensive to repair.

[@maubunky1]

Well in a car I used to own (an American brand I shall not invoke the name out of shame) and replaced a faulty controller, the module located immediately behind the buttons was actually also the HVAC controller module. If this shop services multiple manufacturers I can see how they misunderstood what part is actually the HVAC control module, it's an honest mistake, but definitely a cringe worthy moment when you get a callback.

[@bearg4019]

Sooo..they did know what the AC controller is...????..

[@ws2664]

Would a bad ground going to the module cause the same problem?

[@kevincampbell8298]

If that were the case when they changed the actual module it would still not work. But the actual module was replaced and boom its fixed.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Everything else on the HVAC works, so not suspecting a bad ground...

[@Micko350]

If it was a bad ground how can the voltage go up? 🤔

[@ws2664]

But Ivan didn't take the module out to check the ground at the connector, it could have had a pin fitment problem or green crusties which he would have seen and maybe fixed it with no parts required plus he could have shown the shop owner exactly what part to replace the shop owner replaced the wrong part. I just think Ivan should have taken the extra step and popped out the module and double checked it, that's all.@@kevincampbell8298

[@kevincampbell8298]

@@ws2664 I think it gets a bit confusing when two parts of a system are labeled a little too similar. There is a control unit and a controls unit. The first part replaced is the controls unit. Perhaps this is a case for a picture is worth a thousand words. He said HVAC controller and they replaced HVAC controls. I don’t have a factory diagram handy to use Hondas Terminology. I came across this type of issue working at a friends shop years ago. I had to go to a dealer to see the parts listing to clarify what I wanted for a vehicle. They kept saying are you sure its not this part you want. Nope its this that is broken. LOL I remember because it was an hour wasted. Its definitely a communication issue. Maybe a bit on both sides I am not sure. We can all only learn from each incident we come across.

[@jhonditch4269]

some things are not as simple as they seem

[@mikemorton6219]

Crazy to put reman ac compressor in car. Asking dor failure .

[@lou_Alvarado]

👍👍

[@aleskyfinis1025]

Wow man

[@joeandgod1]

I wouldn't think giving it a permanent ground would be too risky. Since when does a AC compressor need a thermal fuse? The majority are made without it.

[@flatdaddio]

They were close, only off by a little. They are still learning as well. lol.

[@kevin9c1]

Did you give them a freebee re-check? I guess it depends who is "at fault." Was it up to you to be clearer in what to replace? Or up to them to replace the right thing?

[@MrBarrymiles]

I know the for the saab 9-3 when the air conditioning light is on the air conditioning is off

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

This is definitely simpler than a SAAB 😅

[@andrewwturner]

I'm guessing by the fact you didnt charge them a 2nd time (earlier comment) means they didnt get shitty with you over the 'bad' diagnosis? 😊

[@jimbonettles]

I hope they didn't fuss about paying you the second time around!

[@DaddyBeanDaddyBean]

Ivan, the shop said i need a new transmission, so I replaced the shift knob (the new one is a skull with color-changing LED eyes) but the car still doesn't move. What else could cause this problem? 🤔 😂

[@zx8401ztv]

Thats very odd, its like there is dampness got into the ac control unit, i have seen water get past the windscreen seals and cause hell.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Nah just a typical Honda failure lol

[@zx8401ztv]

@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics lol but Not as frightening as some of the computer centre madness of modern junk.

[@Micko350]

Odd?! On a Honda?! Hardly!