My Response to the LazerPig Drama

[@ConeOfArc]

Just a few things I want to further clarify as I am sure they will be common responses to this video in the comments and I may add to this if I notice any which I did not specifically address in the video or in this pinned comment. I do ask that you first watch the video in its entirety though as I will likely cover what you are going to comment about. 1. My community post following the upload I certainly could have worded that better and it was perhaps a bit too much of a knee-jerk reaction as I left it fairly quickly after watching the response video. I do stand by all the facts I shared in that video however I should have clarified in the post that I did not stand by the tone of that video. The more snarky sarcastic tone is something I tend to use in those comments videos to make them more entertaining especially since most of my responses to comments aren't scripted, but as I did script the LazerPig section and it was meant as criticizing what is likely a genuine mistake I should have done it more professionally. 2. Why didn't I reach out to LazerPig before making my original response? I do not feel that it should be necessary to reach out to someone prior to making a piece critical of their work. I understand why many feel it is a better approach and I do agree that it in some cases it can clear up misunderstandings between parties. However, in this case I had already seen posts critical of the mistakes which LazerPig had responded to yet no changes had been made to the video outside of one minor correction (which I do applaud LP for doing even if it was only one of many). These are the main ones I did not touch on in my video but as I said I may add to this so if you see the comment has been edited you know why. Thank you for taking the time to hear me out and I hope we can all learn something from this situation.

[@ap3x_XD]

I said to not do this

[@lamia197]

0:40 People reply in hostile if you speak to them with hostility. What did you expect?

[@TheArklyte]

So, it's a coordinated strike? Or simultaneous upload with RedEffect is just coincidental?😅

[@StevieMoore]

People comment in the first few minutes, just the nature of things. Short attention spans. Sucks but it’s true

[@Simon_Nonymous]

I always will respect someone who can admit where they went wrong, and someone who will stand by what they got right, and someone who will try and build bridges. I hope this has benefited all of these KZbinrs' audiences, as well as the KZbinrs themselves.

[@multilingualcheesewheel6535]

tankgirl tries to help resolve the dispute between a guy in a gas mask and a pig with laser eyes

[@KingOp0ssum_II]

Now THATS a movie I'd watch

[@BlackMasterRoshi]

Leona Ozaki?

[@TurtleChad1]

Piggy got cooked

[@mugbug5]

Who is the guy with the gas mask?

[@PT9168-u4i]

​@@mugbug5redeffect, i think

[@thepeero9670]

props to the tank driver, who listened to the whole thing while you recorded his vehicle.

[@fitzachella]

Fr

[@kOiGuh]

Made me die laughing

[@191BreadWinnings]

Frr

[@Just_Anzio]

They just doing their job

[@theloop-ist]

Nah bro that's cone of arc, cone of arc just recorded cone arc move in the park, truly the best pair of cone of arcs (excluding cone of arc)

[@bigjoe7051]

I believe this drama needs to be taken a step further. A violent oiled up twerk off between Lazerpig, Redeffect and ConeOfArc. That way we can see who really is the winner

[@revengeofthepanzers9047]

There is no word in the English lexicon to describe the visceral physical reaction I had to reading this

[@me67galaxylife]

lazerpig is akin to a redditor; they stand no chances

[@jdog345]

Lazerpig has already thrown down the gauntlet for an ocean liner duel. I think that is a very measured response to this and a fitting end.

[@gwin2719]

Society

[@RandomDeforge]

please no.

[@JN-ek1df]

Lets just all move on and all agree that the Bob Semple could easily 1v1 a tiger.

[@Try_Again_Bragg]

Tiger doesnt stand a chance

[@tino897]

That’s not even a discussion. Bob semple is the tank of all tanks

[@mugbug5]

Bob semple Vs sob bemple

[@tabsrus1857]

Easiest bet of my life

[@irishkiwi477]

6 quality built commonwealth bren machine guns vs weak 88mm pancake gun.

[@supershovel3953]

The fact that this is even considered a "drama" instead of "a few KZbinrs disagreeing about a barely important minor tank fact" is so strange to me Disagreements like this only devolve into "Drama" when all parties involved decide to make it one

[@Butter_Warrior99]

It is bizarre.

[@V-V1875-h]

They are manchildren

[@ConeOfArc]

I'd prefer if it was seen as a discussion rather than drama. I don't view it as drama but I know many of the people watching do so it seemed fair to address it as such.

[@The_Modeling_Underdog]

Agreed. "Drama" is good for clicks. Drama is good for ego. Problem is, drama is not heavy. Drama is not reliable. Drama relies on the momentary flare-up of emotions. And then it's gone. You can't bring it up from the dead. And doubling down on the Pig doesn't make the Cone square. It just makes it all so tiresome.

[@Snack-Sized-Femboy]

I'd recommend maybe changing the title to something more neutral like "response" or "disagreement". I hadn't thought of this as drama either until I saw your title. I like all 3 of you, and this isn't going to make me stop watching.@@ConeOfArc

[@DSlyde]

The "I won't cite sources because you should look for them like we did" really rubbed me the wrong way. At best it's absolutely petty bullshit that is 100% against the goal of a useful and civil academic discussion, at worst it's him saying "trust me bro I have tons of sources, you just can't see them because they're in a school in Canada".

[@Lovemy1911a1]

The second someone does that write them off. No one who actually has a source says this.

[@blubbblubb.7867]

Dude it was an answer to red affect who doesn't bring any sources especially when it comes to Armor and penetration values

[@Lovemy1911a1]

@@blubbblubb.7867 It doesn't matter. Hiding sources is totally unacceptable. This isn't just being lazy or not providing them, he flat out said he would not disclose them because other people should try harder. Only frauds and liars pull shit like that.

[@blubbblubb.7867]

@@Lovemy1911a1 nah I'm sry I get where he comes from !

[@aperson336]

The thing I didn’t like was that laser pig basically sent his fan base to attack cone and red effect

[@jordanch68]

Refusing to give sources is the deal breaker for me. That's not something a real historian would do I'm here for facts not megalomania.

[@mrkeykush693]

LP: I won't provide any source bc i want people to do their own research. **Someone says that Lazerpig is not correct on one point**. LP: what are you S O U R C E S

[@TheBaralinChannel]

What sources do you want for the armata? RT? It's a joke machine that will never see the light of day as anything more than a propaganda piece. Coming from a country frankensteining MTLBs and T-54s into action, because it is so incredibly inept at producing a modern machine (All T-54s, T55s, T-62s were said to be scrapped in 2013 by the RU MOD) and yet... Here we are. With a dozen Armatas that don't work outside of a few state sponsored videos. Again, what source do you want? The RT video? Cause there's nothing to go off of that isn't Russian state bull about how it's the best in the world, despite the fact it can't even make it to the end of Red Square without needing to be towed away.

[@korana6308]

The funny thing is that the exact way I was acting when I was in my teens at like 15... But that's not an argument you can actually make as an adult. Because it clearly shows to me that either your source is unreliable or you don't have a source at all.

[@skeptic_lemon]

@@mrkeykush693 Honestly I'd play that game with him if I meant I could teach him a lesson about when to stop being arrogant for the sake of comedy.

[@thurin84]

lazerpig basically gave the jazzed up "google it" response.

[@darealsherlock8026]

The dad of tank history is mediating this, and I love how everyone is starting to calm the hell down because of this.

[@chainswordappreciator3022]

Just don't make him get the belt.

[@ember2933]

​@@chainswordappreciator3022 He doesn't use a belt, he uses tank tracks.

[@SashaTheDog]

No this is just a start, Cone wont stop and LP wont stop if Cone wont stop.

[@bubblesofthecoast6393]

@@ember2933Not just that; he’ll teach you how to tension it ;)

[@andrewwoodhead3141]

The Chieftain is certainly not ''The dad of tank history''. That is absurd. He's a fully paid up employee of WOT who has set himself up as some sort of authority , a poser and no more.

[@itsgingervitis69]

"youtube drama" has to be some of the petty highschool level drama on the internet. While it is a "discussion", it becomes drama once one or more parties start making personal attacks.

[@forceofone]

yet,here you are watching it....

[@itsgingervitis69]

@@forceofone Yes

[@ambientlightofdarknesss4245]

I find it fun and funny tbh. I watch all of them religiously, and seeing three historical CCs butting heads in a dumb way, is just funny. reminds me of the time I saw a video about drama in the "How the titanic sank" community.@@forceofone

[@ravenouself4181]

Tbh, LP started with the personal attacks first

[@cookiecraze1310]

​@@ravenouself4181quote from Cone of Arc: "Do some actual research man" If that ain't a personal attack idk what is.

[@YuriPRIMErpg]

I'm mighty disappointed in LazerPig in general. The first thing he does in every video is to build a strawman, ridicule and mock a madeup opposition to his argumentation, compiling the character that is a caricature of all stereotypes one can think of. He then proceeds to make his point, and sometimes it's quite humorous, funny, I get it, comedic effect. But it also creates this notion that whoever disagrees with him is like this dishonest caricature or aligns in some sense with it. And then instead of just correcting data or disputing with your points, going only facts and sources... the first thing he made in his rebulat video, was to color RE and Cone as some sort of tricksters, playing mind games with the viewers for all sorts of reasons, while he himself can barely start a video without 5 minutes of pre-emptive attack on a strawman.

[@yspear_]

And don't forget that he would rather guilt trip his viewers than admitting that he made a mistake

[@MatthewChenault]

It’s the same tactic Atun-Shei has been using for years now. Discredit the opposition by constructing a strawman - usually in the form of taking random, bottom-of-the-barrel comments out-of-context - and then beating it down by regurgitating the works of others without even once doing any research beyond it.

[@robertkalinic335]

​@@MatthewChenaultAtun Shei? Please tell me this is something serious and you are not one of those state's rights bs confederacy fanboys.

[@bernardorodrigues283]

​@@MatthewChenaultwhat are you talking about atun cites his sources, Its not his fault some confedarate supporting people can be Very cartoonish

[@theoheinrich529]

@@MatthewChenault Definetely different situations since Atun-Shei takes actual comments by Lost Causers, unlike how Lazerpig's biases affect how he responds to others.

[@Edward-pw6zz]

i remember lazerpig saying that he hated misinfo in a older video... that backfired hard

[@__chevytrucks__]

Mhm. Big time.

[@SoloWing88]

It's okay to misuse and bias things if you don't like any single part of it

[@k0lliak553]

it's okay to misinform people if it's against Russia (C)

[@drmaulana2600]

That backfired so hard even Chieftain had to say something for it lmfao

[@SoloWing88]

It's okay to hate attack plane fans as we found a Wikipedia article that called one a bad guy

[@whirlwindgaming6973]

"Such criticism is unfounded. Things like that have to be dealt with. Before that guy disabled the commentary on that video, I read some of it. And there was a lot of commentary about how people percieved that I was incompetent or stupid. And there was various versions of "I've never heard of Paul, but I'll make sure I'll never watch any of his stuff, and I'll tell other people not to." Left unchecked, those kind of lies can do a lot of damage, and I had to get out ahead of it." -Paul Harrell You did the right thing Cone, responding to his criticism in a polite tone and apologizing for when you broke your own professionalism, while also pointing out how quick he is to resort to ad hominem and accusing anyone who disagrees with him of being a vatnik - the classic "everyone who disagrees with me is a nazi" approach of bad-faith actors. Hopefully this is the end of it. We support you for all of your hard work in producing genuinely informative history videos.

[@ConeOfArc]

Yeah that is much of the reason for making this video. As you said, left unchecked these sorts of things can tear down a channels credibility due to a small number of people basing their entire idea of a channel off a few out of context clips and the misleading takes of another channel.

[@markolysynchuk5264]

I can't see any connection between ConeOfArc and 'vatniks'. 'Vatnik' is usually used to reffer to a Russian nationalist, being very open about their nationalistic views. It makes no sense.

[@qaterdargon4041]

Watching the cone drive around was strangely fun.

[@TheCrapOnYourStrapOn]

I know. Peaceful

[@burningphoneix]

It was funner trying to spot the planes exploding in the background 😁

[@qaterdargon4041]

@@burningphoneix there were planes in the background? My eyes were fixated on the cone.

[@Quintarus1794]

I actually think a little back and forth about this kind of thing can be very beneficial, but the tone must be that of a collaborative search for the truth. Towards that end, disagreement and competition are good; confrontation and combativeness are not. Laser Pig's tone can range from dismissive to scathing--which makes for good comedy, but poor historeography--and your initial response was openly combative. Your appology is appreciated, and hopefully Laser Pig responds in kind (and shares his source material). I hope to see further constructive arguements between reasonable adults.

[@hannaelia6279]

It's because Laser Pig doesn't care about the search for the actual truth. If he comes to a "truth" that becomes objective fact in his mind and anything that disagrees with him is Strawmanning and Flimflam. You can see this attitude in his T-14 response, his response to the Chieftan, and his response to a lengthy Reddit essay on the T-34 that was well-sourced and showed how the Pig twists facts to fit his narrative.

[@-xirx-]

On the other hand, this is KZbin, not academia.

[@burtbacarach5034]

Umm,don't think thats gonna happen.

[@اسكندرفكار]

​@@-xirx- some low minded ppl take LP for granted reliable info....and that should be stopped

[@Pincuishin]

Oh he hasn't the baby just got more egotistical

[@SB0322]

Lazer really needs to stop insulting people, then running into community notes and saying it was all for humor's sake.

[@racing_mntage1584]

the pig in his name stands for his behaviour

[@brians9879]

@@racing_mntage1584 facts

[@bananabanana8407]

@@racing_mntage1584 true

[@robbob9273]

Yep

[@p_filippouz]

Not just that but a lot of Bias too.

[@VERBLASSEN]

Lets just hope that this will be the last video/response regarding this drama and everyone should just move on regarding it.

[@KingOp0ssum_II]

Agreed

[@LastGoatKnight]

Laserpig stated in his video that he won't. Let's hope it stays that way because I watches them both since a loooong time (ConeOfArc approx 4 years ago and Lazerpig 3.5 years ago) and I don't care about KZbin drama and both of them smart enough to not make this further

[@prussianhill]

This right here.

[@SashaTheDog]

It wont

[@Boric78]

Only way this will be settled is shirts off westle mania. Best of six. Chieftain to refree of course.

[@MoonMan1267]

Why the heck is there always conspiracy and drama and stuff between every single KZbinr and person on the internet ever. You're just the guy I watch videos to learn about tanks and stuff from even.

[@indieWellie]

it bumps up view count and audience engagement on platform and on other platforms too

[@Hybris51129]

KZbin. KZbin never changes.

[@raymondmanchester0624]

I guess it is a way to gain popularity...I still feel like that is a politician way...

[@brennanleadbetter9708]

Welcome to the Internet

[@92HazelMocha]

Because clickbait YTer's don't like being called out by educational channels. I see it all the time.

[@henrikhumle7255]

"You're only calling me out for making mistakes in my video because you want clout!" and "I won't show my sources because you should just trust me not to make stuff up and it's unfair to me and my team if you don't have to go through the same process of finding them than we did." are easily the worst takes any self-titled academic and public intellectual could possibly give in response to criticism. Until LazerPig admits he's in the wrong on those and changes his views on how research should be handled and shared, I unfortunately do feel that I have no other choice than to unsubscribe to him. I say that as a fellow historian who strongly disapproves of how you handled your initial complaint, and of how he responded. I approve of this calm and measured response. It also appears that the facts are currently on your side.

[@viktoriyaserebryakov2755]

Also you still have to provide sources and more of them because it's not enough. And you can't use online sources anymore but I can. A-a-and the sources you do have aren't good enough so delete those they're not NATO approved.

[@alpacaofthemountain8760]

Forums aren’t good sources

[@henrikhumle7255]

@@alpacaofthemountain8760 Depends on the forum and what the person writing the post is citing.

[@IJN_Guy]

​@@alpacaofthemountain8760 When it comes to classified information, they are much better than making stuff up like LP did. And using a bunch of different forums to compare and narrow the base down to reasonable data.

[@robiagacitei5487]

@@alpacaofthemountain8760 better than no sources, aka lazerpigs sources.

[@KingOp0ssum_II]

I really hope this doesnt get out of hand

[@me67galaxylife]

lazerpig is probably too fat to get out of his chair anyway so it's probably okay

[@KingOp0ssum_II]

@@me67galaxylife dude that's uncalled for

[@ember2933]

Cone is attempting to get the high ground with his reply by attempting to be more cool headed and putting light to some of his mistakes. If Lazerpig doesn't mess up and get aggressive, he might cool down the argument by doing the same.

[@drmaulana2600]

​​@@ember2933judging by LP's latest video and community post, I don't think he would calm down like cone lmao

[@infernaldaedra]

​@@drmaulana2600even tho they are both trying to make videos on mostly unknown information lol

[@chiriematthieu]

The laser pig response fell like "okay i m wrong, but i will have the last word".

[@pilotmanpaul]

What irks me more since he got destroyed by concrete evidence, he choice to die on the SLA.16 hill. By LazerPig's point, the Cummins ISX Inline Six I use is the same Ford Inline made in the 1900s. Of all the bs he spouted, he choose to die on the worst hill he made.

[@MadCDeeJay]

100%. In related news, he threw down the gauntlet 1h ago

[@Invizive]

​@@MadCDeeJayhe really wants to have the last word, even if the reason why it's the last is because nobody thinks he could be reasoned with anymore

[@gnarl12]

​@@MadCDeeJaybecause he's a petulant drama queen 😅

[@jozsefkloczka6106]

"I'm so sorry I saied those things, BUT...". (Continue the story)

[@jermasus]

Pig literally broke the first rule of historians by not providing sources lmao average LP L

[@Soundwave3591]

I take it you didn't look at the original T-14 video that started all this? Where he DOES list sources?

[@creativehorse7907]

​@@Soundwave3591oh excuse me, I wasn't aware you can provide a couple of unreliable sources in one video. Then zero sources for the next video and still get credit. Get off your lazerpig copium and hopium. I don't even watch cone but I just enjoy pointing out how LP is hardly a reliable source of info....if he was he'd provide a few more sources.

[@big-smallggman354]

Oh excuse me… are you offended now😂😂😂 He is making history fun and interesting for more people. He deserves a lot of credit. He reaches out to a lot of people who maybe not liked history to begin with. Credit is due….

[@Elon_Mosque]

@@big-smallggman354wow, I practically read the words of the comment go in through one ear, through your hollow head, and out of the other ear 😂

[@ДаниилСтепанов-р1и]

@@big-smallggman354 Only offended here is you. >>History >working officially(!) on Ukraine's propaganda right now >he tells history hurr durr >many times - his videos was proven fake and NAFO copium (which he - actually sits) Bro, sniff another your NAFO copium, lol.

[@nesyboi9421]

I'm just puzzled at how anyone could think that anyone would re-use an engine from WWII in a modern tank. The amount of progress in engine design we've seen as a whole would make doing so a gigantic blunder. Just because an engine shares a shape, and even number of pistons and displacement, does not mean the engine is the same. If we compared a V8 from the 1960s-1970s to a modern V8 of the same displacement, the differences in horsepower and design would be incredible. Even something like what's in my car, a 2 liter inline four, is incredibly different from one built even 20 years ago. It's like taking an MP-18 and comparing it to a modern submachine gun, and saying a modern submachine gun is a copy because it's a submachine gun. I really don't understand it.

[@CrackzTV]

That’s why I think LP is malicious in his hyperbole. Plenty of people take his fallacious comments seriously as cone demonstrated.

[@SiphonRayzar]

The engine of the T-72 and T-90 is an evolution of the same engine that was in the T-34. Sure, it's been heavily upgraded, obviously. But at it's core, its still the same engine from WWII. And given the maneuverability issues of the T-72 and T-90 today (being slower then tanks that are heavier then them, as well has having a piss poor reverse speed), it's pretty clear that that engine design has reached the end of its usefull lifespan.

[@nesyboi9421]

@@SiphonRayzar I don't know about it being an evolution of the T-34 engine, but I do know that reverse speed isn't determined by the power of the engine but the gear ratios of the transmission they decided to use, and how many reverse gears you have. Slow reverse speed was a design decision not a consequence of a weak engine. Not saying anything else you said is wrong, I don't have grounds to dispute any of the rest of it, just that part about reverse implies that it's the engine at fault for the slow reverse speed.

[@Seth9809]

The PKM is an upside down AK, the AK-12 is just a new AK. The AK is a smaller, automatic Garand. The mechanical gas system of the SCAR-H looks like an upside down M-1 Carbine. Most handguns are just polymer M1912s with rotating triggers snd striker fire pins.

[@russelbronosa4538]

​@@SiphonRayzarever heard of a transmission dinggus? It's what determines the reverse speed of your said tank not the engine itself.

[@homiespaghetti1522]

In my opinion LazerPig has been extremely petty during all this drama, with his response video and his comment under Chieftain's video. Like accusing Cone of "Clout chasing for views"? Come on Pig.

[@cheeksakimbo6591]

To be fair Cone DID jump into this fight, it was between LP and Red effect at the start

[@Krisz1023.0]

@@cheeksakimbo6591 it doesn't change the fact that Laser Pig is a drama queen

[@akaroth7542]

Lazer didn't respond for more than a month...how is that chasing drama? Cone was the one who butted in and threw insults.

[@RedArmyShogun]

LazerPig has always been petty and has a /k/ personal reddit audience, it just doesn't seem he's an ass because he keeps company with fellow asses.

[@MediumRareOpinions]

For somebody who "doesn't want this drama" he finds a lot of opportunities to mention it

[@badgerwijohnson4081]

As a fan of both of you, I believe there is only one way to solve this. On the field of honor with wet noodles at dawn.

[@jdog345]

LP has already challenged everyone to an ocean-liner duel

[@ravenouself4181]

@@jdog345 *Shows up with the USS Iowa to assert dominance*

[@tylercameron1898]

​@@ravenouself4181shows up with the Bismarck to attack the USS Lowa and assert dominance!! 😂

[@Brandon0406]

​@@tylercameron1898I don't think the Bismarck would get out of that fight alive, no matter if it could beat the Iowa or not. Unless it could stay out of the Iowa's range the whole time. When these massive guns hit you, you're done.

[@kousand9917]

@@tylercameron1898 bounces off Thicc Iowa then gets annihilated by superior firepower

[@strongback6550]

I had an inkling that Laserpig was a bad faith actor when he spouted that nonsense about Russians using an engine stolen from a WW2 tank. His response just confirmed it to me, albeit the people he hangs around with made me think he probably was a propagandist.

[@ravenishere69420]

He's also openly former UK intelligence and therefore I don't think he can be unbiased towards anything from Russia, also due to the other videos he's made on Russian stuff, very biased lol

[@MatthewChenault]

Lazerpig is the Cynical Historian or Atun-Shei of the Ukraine War; extremely biased and deliberately malicious towards those he doesn’t agree with.

[@WRXGrizzly]

​@@ravenishere69420what proof is he in UK intelligence

[@doctorlycloth5931]

​@@WRXGrizzly its not intelligence he basically was someone who would try to predict a civilian populations response to military actions. he states this in one of his Ukraine vids. i admit he is bias sure but this response video is kinda shit tbh cos Bro 2 minutes spent saying 'Im so sorry for my tone, but LP is still wrong and misleading and heres a shout to chieftan's video cus he didn't make me angy! 5 MINUTES JUST TO STITCH IN HIS ORIGINAL RESPONSE. 3 minutes on just Lazerpig's comment regarding channel views and how this is one of redeffect's more recent successes (proceeds to show redeffect's videos by viewcount and how its only the 18th most popular despie the fact all the other videos above it are a variety of 1 year old to 5 YEARS OLD) then finally gets into the point fucking 10 minutes in by starting with 'nuh uh cus the engine was for the VK. 45 which was a tiger P that only had 3 hulls finished and engine never put in it thus the engine CANT be unreliable cus it was never used!'

[@burningphoneix]

@@WRXGrizzly He mentions it himself

[@immikeurnot]

On the differences between the SLA-16 and A-85, the displacement per cylinder is fairly close. Adding or removing groups of cylinders is a long-standing and frequently used trick to save on things like engineering costs and tooling. Changing around bore and/or stroke is also a pretty common thing for the same reason. It looks like the Germans at least designed a bored and stroked version of the SLA-16. So displacement differences can pretty much be hand-waved away. And the X configuration is extremely unusual. All that adds up to the A-85 maybe being based on the SLA-16, with the design tweaked over the years. The sticking point for me is that one is air cooled and the other is water cooled. That suggests a HUGE amount of redesign, if the engines are actually even related. Lazerpig is wrong to call it a copy. At most, the Aramata's engine is a long-removed descendant of the German one. BTW, you misspoke talking about the displacement. Cylinder bore diameter determines piston size. You're looking for crank throw or stroke, which is the other half of what determines a cylinder's displacement.

[@nemo-79000]

As part of my university learning, I was taught the correct method of locating and annotating information from peer reviewed and archival sources. I was also taught to avoid common pitfalls such as out of context quotation at the skimming stage. Having watched this video, I would say that Cone of Arc's comments in source selection and evidentiary hygiene is spot on and I find his comments very fair and justified. I agree that his initial response was very unprofessional and not only let himself down but also the cause of serious academic researchers as well. This having been said, I suspect that this reaction was emotionally instigated and having seen a number of laser pigs offerings I would not blame him and I think that his reply is overly charitable considering laser pig reply. For the record, I dislike laser pigs style, It is brash unfunny and is clearly geared to appeal to the less educated and ignorant. As mentioned I have grudgingly reviewed a portion of his output on various subjects to get a balanced sample of his work with the result that I have concluded that his methodology is shaky, his conclusions are dubious. As an avid amateur weapon ologist, I would rather trust cone's data than laser pigs any day.

[@globalcitizen8321]

I salute your honesty and humility to acknowledge any mistake you might have incurr during your response to this incident. It speaks highly of you. I'm not really a fan of Lazer Pig and the way he presents his videos, he is too aggressive and sometimes incurring in gross mistakes without proper prior research. Despite everyone is entitled to their own opinions, they should do with respect and as objective as possible.

[@belliduradespicio8009]

Lazerpig is literally a propagandist, as he admits

[@slutslayer2646]

@@belliduradespicio8009yeah maybe, but in a way, if you look at anyone who supports or makes claims to the superiority of one side, they’re all propagandist. The trouble is deciding the good from the bad.

[@sleezerbarb9670]

​@belliduradespicio8009 yeah, I mean he does have that NAFO podcast.

[@jim4194]

​@@belliduradespicio8009when has he admitted to being a propagandist?

[@ArielK-a]

@@jim4194 He makes a podcast with "NAFO" on it's name, and he was sponsored by UNITED24, which is a Ukrainian media group

[@mattsharkey311]

I think a laser tag is speed running losing all of his credibility by choosing this, as the hill he’s gonna die on instead of just admitting it’s unknown

[@me67galaxylife]

meh, it will damage him for sure but i'm sure he'll have plenty of redditors to lick his arse

[@gnarl12]

He's a prima Donna

[@fuzzboxvoodoo8680]

He is propagandist, he won’t run out of audience as long as he has NAFO clowns on his side

[@ravenouself4181]

it's not even unknown. we literally know that it's not the same engine. calling the two the same engine would be like calling the ford model t engine and the mustang's ecoboost the same engine. on second thought, that would be far more accurate as those 2 engines share a lot more in common than the sla-16 does with the armata's engine.

[@rorysparshott4223]

Holy shit, I massively respect you for the tone of this. Takes massive balls to stand up and apologise

[@kane357lynch]

Laserpig needs to also

[@rorysparshott4223]

@@kane357lynch to be fair, he only laid in after Come did. Also, the fact that LP, Come, and Red all uploaded a video addressing the drama on the same day suggests that this is the end of it.

[@DrClef_1]

@@rorysparshott4223 nah not rlly, lazer was put on blast for misinformation/bias, and downright being a dick and false historian. Unless that bri'ish will fully apologize (which he wont), this will be for a while

[@nicgur_6981]

@@DrClef_1laser capitalist vs red bias effect vs cone Russian bias 🍿

[@DrClef_1]

@@nicgur_6981 the only bias was from lazer idk what u mean

[@baolinh7463]

It is great to see you come out and talk about the situation in a honest way. Have a great day bro, hope to see new videos from you

[@SaltyFrenchFries]

Mistakes on all sides aside, I am at least glad lazerpig was forced to eat some humble pie.

[@SoloWing88]

Will he?

[@shiyian]

​@@SoloWing88doubt it

[@Snp2024]

nope @@SoloWing88

[@clpfox470]

​@@SoloWing88is there anything a pig wont eat? Lol

[@iap500]

Wake up babe. New laserpig just dropped

[@thomaskok5773]

Arguing with LP is like when his argument turns out to be right, most likey he will reply with "Gacha!!", but if he loses an argument, he will respond with "chill bro, why so serious..."

[@dylanwhite3383]

Personally i don't think that coneofarc was in the wrong and doesn't need to apologize for having the correct information

[@ArielK-a]

It's more of an apology for his tone (which came out as aggressive) of course, LazerPig is also very aggressive in his reply, but he uses the excuse of "I was drunk". I personally don't see Cone wrong either, if someone (LP) talks with a sarcastic and offensive remarks I think it's fair to reply the same way.

[@infernaldaedra]

Neither of them know that they have the correct information. They could both be right and wrong lol

[@nahuelleandroarroyo]

​@@infernaldaedraCone is citing sources and explaining his conclusion, Lazerpig is not, for now Lazerpig is wrong until he gets proper sources/documents. A hypothesis (SLA16 in Tiger Porsche) cant be both right and wrong, it either is true or not, if not a adjusted hypothesis might be true but until re-done its still wrong.

[@DanielVisOneCade]

There's entirely the problem though this isn't something someone needs to be 'right' about this isn't the War Thunder forum's there's no sheep stations to be won even the internet clout isn't worth the effort as it's as intangible as these source's no one is effectively providing. They both need to just STOP implying they have a solid impeachable primary source or even multiple because they clearly do not. The reason T-14 Armata has become this KZbinr quagmire is people are dressing up their opinions/suppositions as facts rather than just reporting their findings and sources their presenting their conclusions at the time. You can't fall on either side an argument no matter which cult of personality you feel attached to most IF THERE IS NO RIGHT OR WRONG to begin with. 🙃

[@infernaldaedra]

@@nahuelleandroarroyo I agree but in these situations it's very difficult to get sources on any newer hardware.

[@WolfLykaios]

I know a lot of people are saying you should just have moved on or not have addressed this, but honestly I think you did the right thing. LazerPig is absurdly unreliable and ever growing in popularity. Combine those two things with his obvious biases and you have a recipe for disaster if left unchallenged. Please don't feel bad for challenging misinformation just because some feel like it is "drama". You did the right thing.

[@Andreas-hh6vy]

I mean it's not like he and RedEffect just challenged Lazerpig. Don't know about Cone, but RedEffect even talked privately with Lazerpig, and according to him Lazerpig seemed like a nice guy. So it was Lazerpig who decided to continue this and turn it into some kind of drama.

[@socialjihad5724]

Definitely right to address it, but his initial tone was out of line, although honestly, Lazerpig's response kinda vindicated Cone's initial hostility and condescension, unfortunately

[@joshsquatch7474]

Can you provide proof of misinformation? All these stans are throwing that word around but aren't providing anything to back up these claims.

[@socialjihad5724]

@@joshsquatch7474 Dude...do you not bother watching the videos you respond to?

[@thathusk9119]

LazerPig is the one continuing this drama, yeah.

[@filmandfirearms]

You've greatly added to my respect for you with this video. Still, I think we can all see what Lazerpig's response to this will be, and he will almost certainly do absolutely nothing to defuse the situation

[@jdog345]

Literally just posted the only video attempting to defuse this lmao. As far as I can tell Cone and Red are the ones escalating by posting responses at the exact same time. At least Cone also seems done with it all.

[@gherkinisgreat]

He just released a joke video about having an ocean liner duel, he's not escalating it.

[@airplanemaniacgaming7877]

Hey genius, did you watch his video? He literally said he isn't going to keep replying with these kinds of video. At most, he made a JOKE video.

[@filmandfirearms]

@@airplanemaniacgaming7877 Considering that, after this video came out, he went around attacking anyone and everyone who criticized him, and even a few people who didn't, before trying to delete all the evidence, I think it's safe to say he's still furious about this, he just couldn't handle the damage to his ego from all the mockery

[@MatthewChenault]

16:51 It would also make sense to test a new engine on a Jadgtiger as the Jadgtiger would have more space to Mount it as it doesn’t have a turret That would take up valuable space. It is, effectively speaking, a box, which is perfect for testing new engines.

[@pavelslama5543]

The only difference between their engine space is that Tiger II requires a hydraulic pump for the turret. But thats just one relatively small part, so they are basically the same.

[@markolysynchuk5264]

Other thing is that the Jagdtiger is heavier, because it carries a much heavier armament, respectively, it's slower.

[@chilipowderkeg1160]

Still waiting on LazerPig's response to the 5 part reddit post someone made on r/BadHistory dismantling every bit and point of his crappy T-34 video.

[@ushikiii]

u just brought my attention to it... wow good shit

[@gnarl12]

Time to look that up

[@Ag3nt0fCha0s]

“Do not doubt me mortals!!!”

[@Domagoj-ko5go]

Let me guess you are a tankie and don't like when someone touches your precious t-34, cry me a river.

[@ThatOneMan830]

Honestly that post deserves more attention.

[@danmorgan3685]

The idea that the T-14 would use a Porsche Tiger engine is stupid on it's face. This is why I don't waste my time on LazerPig. He does garbage research and just tries to chase trends.

[@chillwill1998]

You do realize thats not even just lp’s opinion right. Its even the best guess given by a highly trusted historian. I dont have his name on hand as i dont really listen to him, but after checking a bit during the video that mentioned, he isnt wrong about the mans reputation

[@danmorgan3685]

@@chillwill1998 "You do realize thats not even just lp’s opinion right." More than one person can be wrong about the same thing. "Its even the best guess given by a highly trusted historian." Guessing doesn't have a place in history. "I dont have his name on hand as i dont really listen to him, but after checking a bit during the video that mentioned, he isnt wrong about the mans reputation" Any historian who would lean into pure guess work doesn't have a reputation to protect.

[@USandGlobal]

@@danmorgan3685no but reality does have a place 😂 and the reality is the T14 hasn’t been seen in battle not once, it had to be towed in front of a Russian parade and nothing about it is revolutionary same with the SU-57 that no other country wants to buy. The fact this much discourse about a tank that hasn’t even been in a battlefield yet goes to show how successful Russian propaganda is

[@amogusenjoyer]

​@@USandGlobalokay, but the discussion is about the engine. Just admit that LP was wrong, it's fine. Deflecting by saying that the Armata is trash doesn't make the bs he said any more true. Everyone knows that the t-14 is a meme, but the engine still exists and LP was wrong about it.

[@johnanon6938]

Laserpig attacking a small and much Newer channel about low view count is unsurprisingly very immature. His attack videos are like watching some angry psycho drunk at a grungy bar in the 1980s, the kind of drunk who is illogical, incorrect, incognizant and digs his heals in that he's right about everything even when proven wrong with FACTS. Trying to have a logical journalistic discussion with laserpig is simply just not worth any time or effort because he's turned into that old angry incognizant drunk at a rundown bar.

[@CrackzTV]

You type like how elegant Elliot offen talks, keep up the big vocabulary man, I like it!

[@MrSpleenface]

Their channels have similar subcounts and Cone has been producing videos a lot longer than LP.

[@Seth9809]

You are a moron, and are very superficial.

[@jdog345]

What? They are basically the same size and cone has been going much longer. Not to mention Cone was the one who called out LP.

[@Alte.Kameraden]

LaserPig lost me as a viewer mostly because of how often I caught him actually getting things wrong in his videos, and not in a oops he got something wrong but intentional way. I'm not a professional, but I do know some things about propaganda films, and he shows a clip saying Michael Wittman stared in it, which is false. Because the footage he was using showed Panzer Uniforms, not SS Panzer Uniforms, and the commander on top of the Tiger II was obviously not Micheal Wittman and didn't look like Micheal Wittman. I spent a little while looking up the source of the footage, and the footage was for a propaganda film that was film AFTER WITTMAN WAS ALREADY DEAD... There is no way I'd call it an "Oops" and it was intentional, likely hoping his viewers are too ignorant to notice.

[@dcl32]

I found lazerpig’s channel before yours and was instantly turned off by his smug attitude and “just trust me,” approach to sourcing

[@jungletroll3844]

He still has a grudge against red effect to this day lol. Its funny because he is literally sponsored by a Ukrainian propaganda channel and he openly admits this on his twitter

[@Thunderbolt22A10]

@@jungletroll3844funny bc red effect is honestly one of the best sources of OSINT rn

[@TheGreatCd]

Yup

[@kurttempongko4587]

Lazerpig's argument about only using online sources is not a valid argument especially since most of what he considers 'Published' articles are also being posted on the internet.

[@koskok2965]

Bingo. I guess he'd be shocked to find out that 99.999% papers and science journals people use to build their own academic work on is on the internet.

[@henrikhumle7255]

Besides, online sources can be perfectly legitimate. Check their sources and see whether or not they did proper research themselves and you're good. Not *everything* can be traced back to a peer reviewed journal, but that doesn't mean that we don't know. No, that doesn't mean you can just cite Wikipedia whenever you need a quick reference, but Wikipedia also demands that you publish your sources, and those sources can be perfectly legitimate; and when the sources are legitimate, the conclusions drawn from them are probably valid.

[@viktoriyaserebryakov2755]

Well for starters, Red's sources are not exclusively online sources. So Pig made that up. Secondly, having trouble finding a source Pig has cited that isn't an online source. But then again he also declared he refuses to cite sources for that video while also criticising others for not providing enough sources in the same video. So...

[@herpderp7114]

ARgh I had never watched the Lazerpig video but what he said in the clip included at the start of this is so unbelievably dumb that my brain wanted to unhear it. The engine was designed for pumping stations not heavy vehicles? The hell kind of claim is that? Even if this was 100% true, that doesn't mean the engine characteristics aren't suitable for heavy vehicles. Stationary engines are usually designed to produce a large amount of torque and power at relatively low RPM and are meant to be run continuously at their max rated power for a very long time reliably, which surprise surprise are characteristics you want out of an engine in a heavy vehicle such as a truck, or a tractor.. or a tank. I dislike that statement so much. Now sure it could be a failure of an engine, but that's beside the point

[@jujuman120]

if you've had any sort of extended contact with engines and engine design or vehicles of any description his whole spiel on the SLA.16 and the V-2 come off as complete nonsense going as far to say the BMP-2 has the same engine as the T-34 at one point which is false the whole SLA.16 thing makes no sense, there's literally no need to lie about how bad the T-14 is, it's not even a production tank with significant numbers, it's a tank that had it's debut in a parade and hasn't been seen since :) good catch tho most industrial application generators do indeed use the same engines as trucks which are not dissimilar to the ones used in military applications

[@northumbriabushcraft1208]

Lazerpig calling you and redeffect vatniks just makes his russophobia come across even stronger. He's just a propaganda parrot, repeating overly pro-western and pro-ukranian takes and he doesn't hide it. You and red are way more professional, not taking any political side, which is refreshing to see in this polarised age. I can enjoy your content perfectly fine, I particularly like your cursed by design series and I like redeffect's content too. Lazerpig, while being a good entertainer at times puts bad politicised jokes (and russophopic comments) in his videos which throw me off and annoy me during watching, when I've watched several videos of his in the past. Not to mention many, many inaccuracies.

[@Wolfe_Blue]

It’s impressive that people can actually admit they were wrong and correct themselves unlike others (LTT) who accuse and blame others for their own mistakes.

[@Snp2024]

LTT?

[@mrbanditos3583]

​@@Snp2024linus tech tips

[@Wolfe_Blue]

@@Snp2024Linus Tech Tips

[@JohnDoe-ul7sm]

@@Snp2024linus tech tips

[@ninus17]

@@Snp2024Linus tech tips.

[@Sidedlist]

In order to stop the drama I recommend buying eachother lego sets

[@Eeee-y7t]

Based

[@TanksRcool]

Not based

[@Sidedlist]

@@TanksRcool man screw you!!!1!!1!

[@Lovemy1911a1]

Holy shit Lazerpig actually said "I won't site sources, go find them yourself"! That is the death nail of credibility. No one should ever listen to him again. This is the good thing about drama, you see what people are about. LP decided to die on the stupidest hill ever.

[@horrorfan117]

Source?

[@Lovemy1911a1]

@@horrorfan117um this video at 23:59. There is a clip of Lazerpig saying I'm not going to share sources.

[@alienfish8521]

I knew he was prone to saying nonsense things when he said in one of his videos that the BBC has a right wing bias.

[@Insert-Retarded-Reply-Here]

@@horrorfan117found the LP fan

[@NeocadeX]

No watch it and shut up, clown.@@horrorfan117

[@justinpascual1691]

I never really liked Lazerpig and his content all that much. He makes me cringe at how he does things. So props to Cone of Arc for making a proper response.

[@Mechanized85]

Don't believe and ignore coneOfArc nor believe idiot laserlazypig, would be the best one.

[@koskok2965]

He's literally every single negative British stereotype impersonated. Of course any sapient humanoid would cringe at this unholy combination.

[@deathvulture5974]

To say this pissing match was kicked off because of a tractor engine

[@Bdog40]

Don't take lazerpig too seriously, his entire talking point is basically "everybody is stupid except me"

[@meddy833]

Good points. I have stayed away from this. From the view of an old Cold War tank commander about all this. Most of what is being argued is complete stupidity. Tanks are a BALANCE of firepower, protection, engine power, and speed. The Armarta was designed, like almost ALL modern Russian weapon systems, with stand off distance a PRIMARY focus. That means the ability to detect, target, engage, and kill from a distance outside the range of an enemy ability to respond back. PERIOD. NO ONE knows the Armarta's true capability but we have seen Russian T-90 tanks engaging targets out to almost 7000m range with a HEAT round. (SABOT rounds at that distance have bled off to much kinetic energy to penetrate armor). Why the Armarta would not be able to do the same, and with the tube launched missile system connected to the Netcentric interface it has, the T-14 is said to be able to be commanded to fire the missile, even though the target is not in its direct view and can be handed off to another system to bring it to target out to 12000m. IF true, that is way out of any NATO Tanks Main Gun range. IF the Armarta itself is able to use that system, on its own, it means that it has a targeting system that can "SEE" to out to 12000m. Most optical targeting systems can only actually see out to 5000m. After that it is hard to engage via direct fire beyond that. You are shooting at little dots, and the boresight of the gun is for 1200-2500m. 5000m you are relying on the experience of the gunner to adjust for the extreme distance. Bitching that the engine idea is from a Tiger tank is idiotic. Are we saying no NATO weapons systems was influenced by what they learned initially from German Armor and design after WW2? IF it saves room, weight, and still delivers the power, you are an idiot for not using it just because of who originally came up with the idea. I could go on and on about this. We DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING about the T-14 serviceability to determine ANYTHING about it. Its like determining the taste of ice cream you already think you hate,but you have never had before, based on the image on the packaging. It is just weak.

[@gnarl12]

We shouldn't accept utter bullshit from so called "experts"

[@theoneandonlyartyom]

we know enough about the t14 for it to be added as a war thunder 10.3 premium.. maybe we'll get some juicy documents in the forums!

[@guidor.4161]

I get the feeling that Lazerpig doesn't know what he's talking about.

[@LordEmperorHyperion]

I've heard a joke like that: An american spy was a soviet spy's friend and both meet each other in a bar despite their differences. One day, they had a conversation that lead them to talk about propaganda. The american spy said: - Seriously, I really love your soviet propaganda. Not gonna lie, but you know how to reach the masses. So, the soviet spy replied: - True, our propaganda bureau only allow the best to work there. BTW, I also love your american propaganda. When the american spy heared that, he stood up and, with anger, shout out: - Nonsense! We don't have propaganda!

[@thegrandpowerchannel314]

​@@LordEmperorHyperionI'm Russian and It's a funny joke, because ironically, I know a lot of people who make the same reply about propaganda. They believe Russia has the best, indestructible army, that it's economy is the best in the world, etc. And when met when disagreement, they call you a spy (foreign agent). In Russia we call them "vatniks"

[@joshuahammer4454]

As someone who simply stopped watching laser pig simply because I found things he said did not line up with books I read I'm glad someone is finally catching him on his mistakes

[@dawson9652]

I always love your content, and believe you do very good research. To me it really speaks to your credibility that if there is ever an error to your past research, you always correct it. These are very tricky things to research, and you do a great service to bring us the content that you do.

[@NiceGuy-Nationalist]

Now that I've watched the video on full, let me elaborate on some points. I appreciate the lengths you go through to be respectful and acknowledge your perceived faults. You have shown that you are a good actor insofar as not contributing to drama and trying to further explain your positions without attacking the other. However, I'll say unequivocally, that lazerpig is not acting in good faith, after having seen not only his rhetoric across many videos, but that of thousands before him, who've conducted themselves similarly. He (as you said in the video) injects biases into his content, against a federated geopolitical Eurasian landmass, declaring anything put forth by them as a outdated mess of inferiority, while promoting the counterparts as the greatest implements of warfare ever conceived. Lazerpig isn't a good-faith actor, and shouldn't be treated as such honestly. If anything he should ask for a salary, which may be the motivation behind his content if we're being serious.

[@larsdejong7396]

He has more in common with "vatniks" then with any kind of professional. Which is why it was so easy for Redeffect to debunk him-with the sources pig provided himself, no less. Because he doesn't use sources, he just talks out of his arse in order because he has a massive anti-Russian bias to satisfy. I once subscribed to his channel because of that group of morons know as the reformers. Until I realized that he used their moronic statements to argue the exact opposite, without any further proof. Just look at the A-10 saga.

[@dr.raccoonphd8045]

Unfortunately after this whole debacle I can no longer consider Lazerpig a legitimate or trustworthy historian. Hopefully he apologizes and proceeds in a more mature manner. Genuinely aggravating watching how Lazerpig has been handling this, and how confidently wrong he is.

[@noneofyourbusiness9489]

His videos have been full of incorrect information about very basic things for awhile.

[@creativehorse7907]

Yea LP is a bit off the rails.

[@clpfox470]

I think this is the best case of 'when pigs fly' he will apologize lol

[@atomicnut1486]

I at first was with him, and did not like cones response. But after Cheiftains video, where he made that downright dumb comment then proceeded to use "I WAS DRUNK" for the 50th time, it just felt off. I would think in something as serious as this, you wouldn't go drunk ranting, and it just hurt him more

[@neues3691]

Since he doesn't want to cite sources it is safe to assume he doesn't have any. Also there is no way he is an actual historian.

[@mrkeykush693]

he is not, he does "entertainment"

[@Seth9809]

He took pictures of the sources in the video, you clearly haven’t seen it.

[@Ag3nt0fCha0s]

He might just be a bad historian?

[@teaboy8362]

Even after all this drama, I still like and will watch both channels, even though it is disappointing to see fights like this

[@marcelxd1633]

Same :/

[@Dianasaurthemelonlord7777]

It's fucking pathetic, the both of them.

[@Dontcare-dc8yl]

Hope this doesn’t go on for too long

[@user-op8fg3ny3j]

Lazerpig calling coneofarc a vatnik is very unprofessional

[@darrentoliveros]

@@user-op8fg3ny3jto be fair both sides were pretty unprofessional at the start of this

[@zorzerother]

Lazerpig being an unprofessional, sensationalist, biased youtuber? Shocking!

[@caitlynnwoods2143]

Oh my god! It's almost like a tit-for-tat!

[@NotTheBomb]

@@caitlynnwoods2143have you seen ANY other videos this guy makes?!? Where the F is the sensationalism?!?

[@TheChieftainsHatch]

I don't know, Cone. A 40 minute response to a response video seems to be a little... excessive, don't you think? You've made your arguments and made your case, I think the subject can be dropped now and sent to the audience to form their conclusions.

[@spehhhsssmarineer8961]

Some people need to get the last word. Best to ignore all this going forward.

[@gnarl12]

Ehh, LP brought this up on himself. He can deal with that.

[@ConeOfArc]

I would agree with you if it weren't for the combination of inaccurate information and lack of sources in LazerPigs response video. Without the extra context and information I shared in my video the facts become distorted through a particular lens leading the viewer to a false conclusion of both the historical subject and my channel. At this point I feel I have provided enough additional information for the audience to both investigate the topic themselves as well as form a more accurate conclusion with a look at the bigger picture outside of one particular book.

[@ballin3048]

Lazerpig was being disingenuous and mischaracterized both Red and Cone. A response was honestly absolutely warranted.

[@gherkinisgreat]

@@ConeOfArc I'm guessing you missed the ocean liner duel video then?

[@harlech2]

I am going to come out and say it, LP lost me as a viewer long before this. I used to enjoy his content.

[@MediumRareOpinions]

I've been feeling similar and this "drama" has tipped it past the line.

[@taylor7334]

16:52 I have such a high appreciation for your thorough investigation, research, 18:15 and tracking of the true information that is correct even by buying the book specifically for this which you still couldn't source the original photo. Perfect! Excellent! Do it right not twice and you know how to verify by sighting the source, I will always be on yours, and the chieftain side because of the through research and if wrong, you two are willing to address your mistakes

[@VenomSnake420]

I’m sorry, but Lazerpig got THIS angry over some throw away minor criticisms over a tank engine and not providing sources, made a 40 minute response video and then said YOU were doing clout chasing when you guys get similar views? Hilarious

[@blackhatfreak]

As far as I'm concerned LazerPig lost his argument when he said your channel is failing.

[@adamg7984]

Yeah that immediately took me by surprise and told me he definitely didn't know Cone of Arc to any degree. And I'm an enjoyer of LaserPig and his ridiculous humor but he was wrong to say that, 100% wrong. Cone doesn't do this for clout, he didn't make a video just about the errors or mistakes or whatever they are in LP's video, he included it in a video about comments. And expounding on why he did, I agree with Cone because myths begin this way and stick around this way. I think it was Armored Archives who made the surprising discovery that the petard mortar on the Churchill AVRE was in reality only 240mm when all these years it's been said to be 290mm. Something of that effect anyway, I may be mistaken on the exact millimeter sizes but the point is that for some reason all these years nobody had actually checked the AVRE sitting in the tank museum of Bovington, or at least nobody who did was willing to challenge the myth. Armored Archives also discovered where the error originated from, given that the firing rod was 29mm in diameter and somewhere got a zero added to it. And that myth continues on to this day that it's mortar was 290mm. So you have to watch and double check these things or they spread like a virus. And LaserPig of course will be as prone to mistakes as anyone and if he isn't willing to admit mistakes then I won't be able to trust what he says so I just hope he learns from these things and rethinks what's occurred because I'm the type who's susceptible to misinformation. Not being someone who wants to read every source and who doesn't know enough to spot a lot of errors, I for a few months did believe that the Sla. 16 at least was the basis from which the T-14's engine was designed from. Now I never went around telling people that because I did feel it was at least unfair, as Chieftain implied, to equate a modern engine with no commonality in parts to an engine that existed in the 1940's or 1950's.

[@USandGlobal]

Cause it is 😂, let’s be honest meanwhile LP’s response video is gonna hit 1 million views. The T14 tank is nothing but a propaganda machine same with the SU-57.

[@adamg7984]

@@USandGlobal Do you mind going away and growing up for a while?

[@Siberiancatsrule]

​@@USandGlobalthis is not a comment section for 7 year olds who can't even drink from a sippy cup properly.

[@bc9554]

@@Siberiancatsrule Especially ironic considering one of LaserPigs latest videos he is asking for more support because his channel isn't making enough money.

[@nicktrains2234]

Oh wow, Lazerpig just went "it was all a prank bro"

[@ping-bi3dm]

Ho whas on the rigth?

[@bc9554]

"I was only pretending to be regarded"

[@ZeCommander599]

Fantastic video, Though I like both of you content styles, my bigger issue LazerPig's was not only how he went about it, but how it was structured, he put his responses to you and RedEffect's videos between his rants on Russian Propaganda. This is a simple tricked used to connect Y'alls two content with that of literal propaganda. That tells me, he knew he was wrong and didnt want to address it. On a side note: I'm in both of Y'alls discord servers and I find his quite hostile to most things

[@gnarl12]

Yep. LP is a thin skinned child

[@Guardias]

Didn't realize there was any drama with LazerPig. Mostly ignore LP due to his opinions on the T-34.

[@removedot]

ahh did someone attack your favorite tank and can't hear any facts about it

[@amogusenjoyer]

No, he is just factually wrong. You should check the lengthy rebuttal with actual sources from a actual historians in that r/badhistory post. Yes I know, it's Reddit but the post stands on its own. The t34 wasn't some OP miracle tank, but it sure wasn't what LP said it was

[@roba4295]

I sub to all three of these channels and although this back and forth has been interesting, it has also been disappointing to see people I like at each other's throats. Let's hope this is over but appreciate the fact that these guys all care about their work, and it is these disagreements on fact that support deeper interest in the subject and source material, by those interested in getting as close to the truth of a topic that interests them, as possible. Some research topics inevitably turn out to be historical dead ends. Proving anything becomes almost impossible when documents are lost to history but it's people like these three, who have the passion and interest to dedicate hours and days in doing the work the rest of us can't or ,won't do for ourselves, who make life interesting for the rest of us. So, thank you to all three of these gentlemen for doing what the rest of us are not doing for ourselves. Heavy, boring, time sucking research. OMG. I'm having flashbacks of grade 8 history with Mr. Brandis as he throws hunks of chalk at those of us who fell asleep while, his back was turned to the chalk board and his endless scrawling became too much to bear as we copied what he wrote. Yeah, that's how we learned history in the 70s. In the most mind numbing, sleep inducing way possible, as we copied his notes from the board. It just brought history to life! Magical, I tell you. Just magical.

[@kimjanek646]

Reminds me when writing on the WT forum and you start to argue with others that have a completely different opinion 😅

[@kelvinvito105]

And the debate only ends when someone leaks classified documents.

[@kimjanek646]

@@kelvinvito105 😂😂

[@imagremlin875]

I have always enjoyed both you and Lazerpig. Tank nerds ARE scary, but fun to watch.

[@airplanemaniacgaming7877]

Now if only the other people here who just want to shit on the pig would see this kind of sense and not just "hurr hurr he stoopid"

[@russman3787]

I won't lie, I don't think your original response was even close to the level of hostility Lazerpig showed in his response video. It feels like he just got mad that someone called him out and made a completely unwarranted overreaction.

[@niffirg1113]

Lazerpig is the type of guy to believe every 2.5L inline 4 cylinder is a copy of each other

[@BloodRaven1045]

Thanks for coming to this conclusion Cone. I’m very glad things could be hashed out and history tube can go back to non-drama

[@Mightybunyip]

I have enjoyed your content for a long time. It was you, The Chieftain and The tank museum that helped get into and learn more about tanks and everything that surrounds them. I also enjoy lazerpig’s content I find him very entertaining. So it sucks that this whole situation even exists. Looking forward to the next video.

[@adamg7984]

All I can say is LaserPig was for sure wrong about Cone of Arc who I've watched a lot longer than LP. LP really said some things that went beyond reasonable. If he believes his research is good then I get why he was upset but he also clearly makes mistakes, as everyone does at times. And while Cone of Arc did come off as rude and belittling to LP, it really wasn't justification for the significantly more hostile response, which I did enjoy watching for the record. I do think the guy is hilarious, he's not wrong about everything but he clearly makes mistakes and I'm not the type who's going to check his sources so it's important to have things accurate or correct them if they're wrong. I agree with why Cone of Arc responded to the claim that the Sla. 16 was the Armata's engine, myths spread like wildfire. And I think your response was well thought out, Cone. You understood why he was upset and did explain why some of what he said hurt and upset you. I think LP owes an apology for how mean spirited he was and for refusing to provide his sources as that's a serious mark against his credibility, even if I somewhat understand he did that out of anger and feeling disrespected. That still is important to knowing if someone's research is remotely accurate no matter how upset you may be so he really shouldn't have done that. I don't know much about Red Effect so I won't say much about that. I am presuming LP is off base with him as well. For all I know Red Effect may take Russian and Soviet information too serious and without a critical eye but that doesn't make the man a propagandist for Russia. So if nothing else I just think that's an unfair label for the guy and I think him making a video that shared the information for the T-14 as he knew it was reasonable. If that's what Red Effect has researched and knows, it's reasonable for him to make the video he made. It doesn't mean he's biased, though that also doesn't mean he isn't. Just that it was a reasonable thing to do. LP should make an apology, genuinely, for how upset he got and how personal he took a lot of these things. He's acting too proud and if nothing else sincerely owes an apology to Red Effect and Cone for saying they're clout chasing. That's disrespectful and I sincerely doubt they're here for anything except for sharing information and knowledge they've found. Sure, it's nice to find a living for researching the things you love but nobody reasonable gets into a fight to further their channel's growth. That's the shit you see on reality TV shows and it's nonsensical for anyone to claim that. And LP was not the only one saying that, there's people in these comments saying that drivel. That LP, Red Effect and Cone are all just engaging in drama for clout. If you live in an environment where people do that, there's something wrong with the environment in which you exist.

[@p_filippouz]

My thoughts exactly

[@mikajlod25]

When LP went after you like he did, I lost all respect for him. :(

[@Munkynuts]

Um. Cone attacked him very unprofessionally first, lp had no option other than clear his name. Of course, cone better hope this doesn’t backfire when lp now needs to share sources…

[@Seth9809]

Cone also flipped out in a community post.

[@jacehackworth6413]

Pig made his video that had nothing to do with Cone, then Cone responded by being rude. You can have your opinions on who was worse but don’t act like Pig started it.

[@Jonathan-rv4lj]

Yeah, also cone wrong in this video as well with the engine as he says that lazerpig is still wrong even though lazerpig says that the engine was going to be used for the Porsche tiger p2 and also says quote “the p2 and not the p1” showing he did know that it was for the VK 45.02 (P) and not the first Porsche tiger so lazerpig still in the right

[@Jason-jb1vs]

@@Munkynuts when you are a literal idiot and you knows it, why suprise when getting attacked? Like there is no way that idiot actually believes in what he says

[@T34theAmericanheavy]

Im not a expert in all things engineering or engines but i do know enough to point a stick at both. Just because something shares the same concept or is even based off of something doesn’t mean it’s a copy. Someone who doesn’t know anything about engines could compare a ford flatV8 to a modern LS V8 and claim the LS is just a upgraded copy. The amount of engineering it takes to “just lob off” 4 cylinders alone is insane. Also enlarging the displacement per cylinder pretty much would require a entirely different crank, conrod, and bearing support structure to handle the increased torque. And finally to convert an air cooled engine to a liquid cooled engine would require all the cylinder sleeves the oil passages as well as the block itself to be completely redesigned. Id say this engine is probably much more likely to be based off of 2 T90 engines combined into one than it is to be related to the german engine in any way.

[@untrustworthy3701]

I hate how the history community can't be professional about this all. I highly appreciate how professional you finally are being, rather than constantly screaming "sOuRcEs" over and over. Everyone in this ordeal has been rather childish. I personally believe that right now you have finally realized how to be more mature, however sadly Lazerpig seems to be going insane since he hasn't had this kind of drama before. Thank you for making this video to address this all, and please continue to try to resolve this all. The history community needs to work together, not fight. Edit: (forgot to include this in) I truly hope you reach out to Lazerpig privately to try to make peace between both of you. I also believe you need to put heavy emphasis on how unreliable information is from ANYONE, no matter how old or how new. So much information online is biased to governments, ideologies, etc... Another note: I'm fairly certain that Lazerpig purposely got things wrong and cherrypicked his sources to piss specifically you off. His comments and other people pressured him into making a response video, so I believe it would make sense he would purposely be an asshole since he's being pressured into making a video he didn't want to make anyway. 2nd edit: Obviously everything I've said is my personal opinion. Humans make mistakes, and when they realize they make mistakes, they rarely are willing to admit it. This video took some balls to make and in order to resolve disagreements someone needs to back down and become unbiased. I hope this is the start of the resolvement, hopefully it eill continue to he resolved.

[@untrustworthy3701]

I probably got something wrong in all of this, please correct me if I messed something up

[@alphana7055]

Stop simping for lazerpig, you cuck😂

[@jimjamauto]

What you're missing is that LP could've pointed out he was shitposting for entertainment and Cone would've looked like the only asshole. Instead he got butthurt that someone said his shitposting was factually incorrect and then totally lost it on Chieftain's video. He fumbled the easiest opportunity to look like the nonchalant cool guy and "win" permanently without having to argue anything.

[@admiraltiberius1989]

Man....this entire thing reminds me of how WW1 got started. What a freaking disaster that was completely unnecessary. It was amusing at first now its just sad. I'm subscribed to 90 percent of the channels involved in this debacle and so its been a real donnybrook.

[@marcelxd1633]

Same ._.

[@Aquatarkus96]

If they REALLY didnt want to cause more drama, they would all get in a private discord to hash it out or maybe go to the bar and talk over some beers. Not make more drama

[@admiraltiberius1989]

@Aquatarkus96 its about the views. Drama is good entertainment to some I guess 🤷

[@jim4194]

Whats even worse is everyone is pointing at each over and call any argument a strawman and not elaborating

[@pyronuke4768]

I've also subscribed to most of them as well, and I'm just sick of all the finger pointing.

[@pavelslama5543]

Edit: removed unnecessary parts of the comment. Overall, yes, Lazerpig is the youtube persona who was very much toxic from the get go. Especially his "don´t take primary sources at face value", while taking secondary sources (that misrepresent their primary sources) as his mantra. Also, as an automobile technician, I have to say that those 2 engines are NOTHING alike. Its like claiming that my 1.6MPI 4cyl in Peugeot 307 is a copy of the Panzer 1 engine. Yes, they are both 4cyl inlines. No, this doesnt make them too similar. So, what are the differences? 1) Number of cylinders 2) Bore or stroke, most probably both 3) Angle. One is 135-45-135-45, the other is 120-60-120-60 4) Crankshaft design. One has 8 conrod bearings, with forked conrods, the other has 12, with 180-degree throws like in a boxer engine. 5) Obviously conrod desing. 6) One is air cooled, the other is not. One has cylinder cups to allow air cooling, the other has blocks to allow water cooling. 7) One is a 4-camshaft OHV, the other is most likely a shaft-driven OHC. ... So, what do those 2 engines have in common? 1) They are both diesel. 2) They are both turbocharged. 3) They are both generally X-shaped. 4) They both have mechanical injection. These are about as many similarities as between my father´s old diesel Opel, and a supertanker. Or between my car´s engine and Panzer 1´s. Which brings us to 27:26, and Lazerpig´s admission that he doesnt know shit about engines. But honestly, please do not provoke him as a content creator. It makes us all look like absolute buffoons. ... And for all those that are interested in engine mechanics, or want to know how I reached my conclusions, feel free to ask.

[@pavelslama5543]

@@jujuman120 Ah, thx, didnt recognize that since its literally the same voice :D

[@jujuman120]

@@pavelslama5543 Late reply but np, sorry if I came off as rude lol

[@PsydenIII]

I feel that no party came out of this spectacle better off for it. While Red's initial video came across as a deliberate drama piece, Cone's felt out right hostile. The Pig's response could have been (a lot) better, and I especially disliked how he refused to show his sources because I am very much of the 'pics or it didn't happen' mentality. Out of all the responses, though, I think Cone has been the bigger man about it. It take a strength of character to admit wrong doing, especially when it isn't followed up by an excuse about why it was actually justified. Good on you. Genuinely, you have impressed at least this faceless person on the internet.

[@burtbacarach5034]

I think you hit the nail on the head when you described Lp style as "infotainment".Thats it exactly,and your style is more technical.Good on you for the apology.I'm subbed to both you and Lp and enjoy the different presentations.Hopefully we can put all this nonsense behind.

[@RJ-vb7gh]

Simply put different engineers are going to apply similar solutions to similar problems where patents aren't at issue. In as much as an X engine is more compact than a V engine of similar displacement it makes sense to use if your goal is to get as much power as possible without adding too much more armor to a tank to protect a larger engine. It's likely the same issue both Porsche and the Russian engineers faced. If Porsche had developed a nearly optimal design, and as the laws of physics haven't changed over the past 100 years, the Russian engineers should have come up with something similar, even if they hadn't seen the original Porsche engine. Saying that all X engines are Porsche derivatives is like saying all modern Rifles are Lee derivatives as they pretty much all use a removable magazine. Or saying that all cars are derived from the the Egyptian chariot as they all use the wheel. There are lots of reasons why internal combustion engines are similar in design, much has to do with balance, fuel and exhaust routing and valve timing. These are mostly dictated by the laws of physics and not because everyone just cut and pasted the original internal combustion engine design and added more cylinders. The Armata engine has to do a similar job to the Porsche engine. It is used in a similar application. It has to live in similar confines. So it's simply going to be similar in some ways to it's predecessor by design.

[@steriskyline4470]

LP'S Engine argument basically boils down to "Eww the f35 has an engine from the 40's because it has turbines and impellers"

[@ottersirotten4290]

Its such a weird Argument, why the heck would I even care wether some Thech is "old"? If some Gear fulfills my Needs, I couldnt care less if it was developed by the ancient Romans and if it doesnt, than the Propblem is that my Requirements arent met

[@Siberiancatsrule]

LP would probably have a mental breakdown once he realises that gears, wires and pistons were used for over a hundred years as engine components.

[@IvanCalderon]

LP sounds like a raging basement incel who harasses women in voice chat and probably owns several r34 Girls UND Panzer body pillows

[@theoneandonlyartyom]

i feel personally attacked by this comment

[@sharky9075]

@@theoneandonlyartyom Good.

[@merafirewing6591]

I doubt Lazerpig is a Girls und Panzer fan.

[@Snp2024]

join boxing classes brother no more basement mastrubation@@theoneandonlyartyom

[@helloimskip]

"If you cannot attack the points, you attack the character." I love ad homs.

[@atomicnut1486]

As someone who was very critical of your first response, I appreciate you apologizing and making a thoughtful video. Hopefully this blows over eventually

[@CallanElliott]

A thought that just occurred to me, and this is speaking as a fan of LazerPig, I think his rapid rise as well as victory over Gonzalo Lira went to his head. He thought you were low hanging fruit (RedEffect is low hanging fruit, though I would contend that it isn't entirely his fault) like Lira, and so thought he could just dismiss you with minimum effort. However, he actually took on (and dragged in) people of equal, or superior ability to himself and those who possess a stronger spine than Lira did. So I hope this serves as a learning experience for him.

[@kevinsullivan3448]

I've only watched one of LaserPig's videos and I could feel my IQ dropping. I read some Chassepot to FAMAS until I felt better.

[@CountSpartula]

Gaze upon the lovingly crafted words of Gun Jesus's chronicles of French firearms brother, the sacred text shall heal you.

[@luna775]

I hope you and Red never back down, I like his content but, he is basically trying to bully you guys out of credibility, views and wont bother to present real sources( because he does not have one tbh) and do real research, he is so lazy that is clear he does not watches your or red videos, not even to effectively criticize you.. I lost a lot of respect for him and killed part of the enjoyment I had from his videos.. He is trying to pull people down to prop himself up its that simple..

[@Swagman12]

they made their reactions to his vid on the armata first where they both clown on him for not doing research who started the bullying?

[@derpydood]

Say what you will about this "drama", at least the T-14 finally entered a battle.

[@Ag3nt0fCha0s]

I want to laugh at that but if I do so I will get sent to the same gulag as you will be.

[@kevinholes99]

Who cares, it's a unreliable pos in reality. Remember russians test their equipment with absolute winnable situations. Where as nato especially the us test and run unfavorable situations and mock ups. It's why our equipment seems to be insane in Ukraine such as the javelin system. We built for what they said they have, not what they really have.

[@Ricky-CC]

LazerPig made a new “response” video, I don’t think he was taking shots at anyone, it also wasn’t an actual response either. I don’t think he’s gonna make another response video, but I could be wrong. It’s a short unhinged and funny 2 minute video challenging you and the other people in this “drama” to a sea liner duel. As a person who watches both of you, It might be a fun way to let bygones be bygones; and just forget and move on from this. Also, great response, much better than your last one, hopefully LP can learn something to. It can only make both channels even better!! Edit: The Chieftan has responded to the video.

[@BrettonianKnight]

I dont think your comment about his lack of research was uncalled for, hes a history of doing this shit

[@valhalanguardsman2588]

Lazerpig acting like a pig, who woulda thunk

[@ДаниилСтепанов-р1и]

I mean - he works now officially works on Ukraine's Propaganda (which he even mentions, in every start of his podcasts), and he is official active NAFO member, and active typical redditor soyboy guy. "What did you expect", i can say... "NAFO being NAFO"...

[@airplanemaniacgaming7877]

Hey guardsman, dont you have to go off and die in an idiotic charge against a giant fortification A la How People See Soviet Tactics style, seeing as you're a Vallhalan?

[@Siberiancatsrule]

​@@airplanemaniacgaming7877I thought only Kriegers used such charges?

[@harmonikahanz]

Thank you for being level headed, and actually providing your sources unlike some

[@DuckyTheFox]

We seriously having drama over minor details on a fucking tank now?

[@Innit.Bruv57]

The minor details can cause false rumors to spread like wildfire and making people believe the tank to be something that it isn't.

[@Wolfbroa]

This is what happens when you got morons like LP that just wants to make pure anti Russian propaganda no matter how true it is anything at all that slightly disproves it and dare claims western media and people maybe just maybe have some things wrong or misunderstood is just Russian propaganda and deserves to be attacked because this is how modern politics works, it’s pure tribalism bull crap and if not 150% pro then you are 100% the enemy

[@unsuisseegare1291]

I hope this will be the last part of this futile drama

[@_np7]

Thanks for being professional on this issue. I've been on a long time viewer on all three of your channels and hope all of this will turn out well!

[@leopardone2386]

I maybe wrong for this but I've been watching with snacks and drinks all episodes of the Armata wars between all three KZbinrs and I'm extremely entertained.

[@FemboyModels]

What snacks? LOL