Will Fighting Games EVER be popular?

[@michaelmcdonald2005]

My favorite part of this video was when Coney said that he never based “fact or opinion” off one word, then did exactly that a little later. Love this guy

[@varunkrishnaswamy4252]

What are you talking about? I’ve never seen him do that, coney wouldn’t do such a thing

[@wonderlandzer0]

Also, here's the thing about the AI conversation. AI isn't being used for the boring jobs, its specifically targeting creative jobs (we are literally seeing it right now). Yes, AI won't have actual passion or expression, but for consumer bros who don't care about what content they consume, they won't see the difference. AI is targeting artists/creatives and it is a danger to our livelihood.

[@yggdrasilsaltar]

the nintendo cinematic universe one was a really interesting question because a mario universe could immediately be like 15+ films from the big universes that spawned off of it (mario, DK, yoshi, wario and luigi’s mansion) but a smash bros cinematic universe while a bad idea would literally be an endgame styled event like smash reveal trailers already were. you cant predict what they do but whatever they do it’ll make MONEY

[@MrSkerpentine]

Also reminder, this is ILLUMINATION

[@HeneLv]

You could probably mix a few universes together. Like seeing star fox in metroid or maybe even zelda in fire emblem wouldn't be that out there as they are stylistically similar or in a similar age.

[@atomu27]

@@HeneLv personally I'd really like the Zelda Fire Emblem crossover lol

[@ballisticboo7808]

​@Hene metroid and f zero would work perfectly as a shared universe but nintendo will never do it

[@HeneLv]

@@ballisticboo7808 I mean as a mini cameo they could have him be there. They've definitely given up on the mainline series but considering falcon is still around in every smash game he's known enough to be at least included. As a main selling point definitely not though.

[@banmonsterg.8245]

I played tennis in high school and absolutely love comparing tennis and fighting games. One on one, reading your opponent, getting in their head. To say fighting games shouldn't have single player content is like saying they shouldn't have made feeder machines or the walls with the line on them for someone to play on their own. It enriches the experience surrounding the game in every way.

[@NickyG_vz]

Most serious fg players only want a training mode and maybe a tutorial. Your example is more like a training mode. A feeder machine is not a gauntlet of overpowered computers playing randomly

[@setxjrichie9745]

I feel you but tbh most fighting game single player content feels like such a waste. Like you can do that with a campaign mode in a shooter, but something about the AI in fighting games is so jarring. Either you're just not gonna win because CPU reacts to everything frame 1, or you'll easily win doing almost nothing in the most boring way possible. Fighting game stories are pretty much all genuine trash. I'd rather them just enhance the multiplayer experience or maybe just make training mode more fun to do.

[@sptflcrw8583]

​@@NickyG_vz cool, how does single player hurt the game

[@frothyslider253]

@@sptflcrw8583 it takes dev time away from polishing the game, adding new characters and other things. Almost every fighting has single player anyway. It’s called arcade mode.

[@sptflcrw8583]

@@frothyslider253 those are two totally seperate teams, lol. The balance team is not working on World Tour, for example.

[@NickyG_vz]

Read the title and thought "could this be the return of facts vs opinions". Love to see it

[@matlotl]

Man the talking about gaming with people is EASILY true. Had a few times at work now where people ask if i play games, and I always lay low with how into them I am since every single time the other person is a call of duty fifa player or someone who has little interest in the hobby and responds with "i played nintendogs as a kid". It leads fucking NOWHERE when the stuff I play is things like xenoblade or smash. At best, the other person will have heard of smash or xenoblade. Though that is very rare.

[@illford]

Man you got unlucky, tbh if your talking with xenoblade to me, even as gamer, I'd immediatley try to divert the convo that game has been ruined by blushy crushy. But also everyone i know plays some video game. tbf, i take CS so my CS friends are fairly nerdy anyways, mind you not all omega nerds, and the rest are arts people so they can get nerdy. Even the normal people i know are gamers tho. Mind you i include stuff like AC, MineCraft, Stardew, etc.

[@whatahoot1185]

2:53 I love how the entire smash/fgc just has no clue how weirdly successful brawlhalla is

[@gaminglakitu]

I think single player content is also important for fighting games because they are so much more complex in terms of base mechanics, so having a fun, safe space for people to try out some tactics or even just have a place just to play it without the worries of direct rank and online play

[@Shradow]

Wait Coney doesn't already know the ARMS lore? It was covered in a series of official ARMS Laboratory social media posts around when the game came out. We know why they wear the masks, the masks were invented to help people control their arms. When people first contract the disease (for lack of a better phrase) they have little to no control, imagine the arms springing out randomly when they just want to go about their day. With the masks they can fight as well as keep their arms coiled up in normal arm shape (note they're stuck with whatever material their arms are made of, the Min Min Smash trailer makes no sense it's not like a transformation you can turn on and off) like you see in some of the Grand Prix ending art. This might be different for people like Kid Cobra who were born with extendable arms (happens 1 in 10k people) but he still wears the mask so who knows. I assume maskless control is possible after enough practice but we have no confirmation.

[@goggles8691]

It is an actual tragedy that ARMS get completely dropped, apparently

[@jefflevy606]

ARMS is fucking sick and i will stand by that forever

[@crytekun]

It’s a fucking disease?? 💀

[@MapleisCrack]

Never heard of ARMS, I don't think.

[@Spiral_Buster]

Whoever had that first opinion did not see how badly that went for SFV in its first couple of years

[@MrSkerpentine]

WHY DID I BUY THIS GAME AT LAUNCH WITHOUT THE INCOME FOR PS PLUS AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[@tumultoustortellini]

Or how bo4 got shat on and dropped for not having a campaign

[@someguy2350]

When 16:00 came up I thought "This one is so obvious, what bit is Coney doing?" And then he convinced me. Unbelievable how powerful this man's influencing is. The quote at 17:39 is great.

[@VVheeli]

“For content” is a pretty good reason to keep running. Case and point: literally every single CW show should have died by season 3, but the fact they keep going is so funny. Supernatural, Riverdale, all the DC shows are so bad they’re entertaining. Edit: if anyone wants to understand, look up “Riverdale Queen of the Bees” and TELL me that shit isn’t a skit Jerma would’ve done but with the gravity of an actual tv show.

[@pup64hcp]

ikr I was convinced in real time too

[@phemsee6838]

21:30 I actually know this one. If you suffer from ARMS(The ability/affliction) in the ARMS universe then you need to constantly wear one of those special masks or you'll risk losing control of your ARMS. They're given out for free due to how rare the ARMS condition actually is in universe. Hit me with that nerd emoji but I was super invested in ARMS lore.

[@PeeperSnail]

Fighting games definitely need more singleplayer options. If any of you have ever been in the Them’s Fightin’ Herds community you know how STARVED everyone is for more of the story mode, to name an example I’m familiar with. While it’s true that the main deal about fighting games is the multiplayer, people should still have the option to play solo, ESPECIALLY if it’s a way to make training/labbing more fun and interactive. AI opponents might not always behave like actual players, but they’re a good way to get used to each game’s unique mechanics and to be able to test combos and strategies in a fun and interactive way.

[@youngrootv]

I was literally rewatching old facts and opinions and you drop this. Let’s goooooo

[@jesteroffire]

People sure be having facts and opinions!

[@144pultrahd]

true!!

[@Thekirbwhokirbs]

Sometimes opinions and facts!

[@Bonaby]

Fact!

[@BubbaBrons]

That’s an opinion smh

[@thesparrow1116]

Oh my god Coney's chat is so twitter consumed that AI argument drained my soul

[@mourning_sun_]

twitter consumed...aka disagreeing with u? lol

[@someguy2350]

LMAO, that's the perfect way to describe it. They just see other people hating and they decide to do the same thing without any nuance.

[@fan.of.nintendo]

I think the chatter ct_2 at 9:20 put it best: "twitterbrain makes everything black and white coney"

[@Dankmemes76122]

Fellas, stop buying the coney hot dog! It doesn't taste good, the foot long hot dog is so much better! Chat, *nervous chuckle* chat stop saying glizzy! Guys, yall know what I meant!

[@DeathWing03]

Yep accountability is the main barrier that keeps FGs from being as popular as other multiplayer genres like FPSes or MOBAs. In a MOBA, a genre has a similar skill ceiling and floor as an FG, you can blame your loss on a shit team. In an FG you can't do that. I mean you COULD blame your opponent for using "cheap" tactics like say zoning or grabbing, but that's just gonna get you on scrubquotes LOL.

[@a1notfound777]

For the first argument about fighting games having single-player content, I feel that almost all fighting games really benefit from having good story modes because the characters are given have backstories to really draw in the players. The gameplay must always be the first priority, but having a lot of single-player content helps to flesh out the world and really make the characters stand out from that of another series. It also helps the player feel a stronger connection and build relationships between the characters that can be implemented into the gameplay to reward players who actually take the time to explore the game's world. I think it's usually worth it to have a convoluted story like the ones in Strive and Blazblue than to not have one at all, though this applies a lot more to series than one-off games.

[@honkytone608]

7:02 at this moment of the stream, DougDoug was also live, creating an AI assistant in his own image using ChatGPT. Maybe Coney is spitting here.

[@Breeze926]

12:17 Every time I've been asked "What game do you play?" specifically in singular I know I was just approached by a League of Legends player.

[@GoblinsAreReal]

The thing with AI is that everyone knows they can’t make human level entertainment, but companies don’t care. It’s cheaper, so they want to move that way. That’s a big part of this whole writer’s strike rn.

[@fedweezy4976]

? I mean I agree with you but I'm pretty sure the writer's strike is mostly about the difference in residuals from network compared to residuals from streaming.

[@GoblinsAreReal]

@@fedweezy4976 that’s definitely the biggest part but they’ve also demanded AI to be kept out of the writer’s room all together

[@wonderlandzer0]

This exactly!! I made a comment too that was like, the normal consumer bro isn't gonna notice the difference or care. AI's intent is to take creative jobs away from artists because big corpo's want the cheap option

[@GoblinsAreReal]

@@wonderlandzer0 I don't want to live in a world where people work low wage jobs and computers create "art"

[@theaa47]

Thank you for the song names editor ❤

[@smollmoth6376]

I kind of agree with coney on the ai thing. The ideal use of ai is that it is used by creative to help in their work, and I hope some legislation to prevent art theft that AI's use right now, could help project this new frontier towards that ideal situation. Hopefully it becomes a tool that people like me can use to get ideas, perhaps using our own art as the input, to help see if some change of design would look good or not.

[@toooffuuu]

I really like the point coney was making with the off-putting feeling of 1v1 fighting games. Something about that initial anxiety and excitement is so addicting. I'll never forget that adrenaline of my first time getting into fighting games ❤️

[@ubadman1]

It's is an actual fact that single player content improves fighting game sales. Marvel vs Capcom infinite outsold mvc3 abd umvc 3. Guess which one has single player? Mortal Komatsu since 9 has had a huge story mode and single player. It outsold tekken 7 despite being worse. Street fighter 5 having a single player helped its sales increase as well. The world tour mode on sf6 is the most anticipated mode in the new game and its create a character.

[@dylanstephenson3892]

I think another part of single player content that I love/hate in fighting games is unlocking characters. I know it's a pain when the game gets brought to the competitive seen, but they made it work for Smash Ultimate. The process of playing the arcade and story modes of the game and getting more characters for it is something I've loved since Marvel Vs. Capcom 2. However, with the way fighting games and characters are hyped up now, I can see why it's good to get access to every character immediately.

[@buff00n3ry]

"Not everything need to be art, it's can just be content." I feel this applies to video games as well.

[@pixelpastiche]

6:20 Neuro sama is one of the best representations of this Fact/Opinion.

[@SkribbleNL]

wow coney hasn't even heard of lost epoch I though he was a gamer FeelsBadMan, If someone plays a game I don't know I just think it interesting to hear their passion for it and learn about something new in a space I love.

[@ninjaafnan5533]

absolutely loving the music track names appearing now, I will hopefully find out the name of that ONE song

[@HolyJoely]

4:30 Sucks to suck overwatch literally has a ban feature where you will never be paired with the player you played with if it was that much of an issue

[@OS_Erol]

3:00 bro legit ignored the entirety of Brawlhalla being an incredibly successful f2p platform fighter with higher prizepools than smash itself

[@wizdakilla7320]

I literally just commented this lmao

[@wonderlandzer0]

One of the best single player experiences in fighting games that I had was easily when I played BlazBlue Continuum Shift 2 for the first time. Each character had their own story paths leading to good and bad endings depending on if you won or not, as well as a true ending after completing the roster. It gave me some many hours in the game and it heavily encouraged the player to adapt and play with other characters they might not gravitate towards. Idc, BlazBlue is good

[@BaezTTV]

Fighting games will never be as big because people want to be able to blame others for their Ls and it takes longer to become decent at them. Other games have your standard click to shoot/auto attack and a single button press to use skills while fighting games have like 4-6 main buttons that need additional directional inputs to use a skill/special. They need more stuff like Street Fighter 6s World Tour mode to reel new people in and convert them to long term fighting game fans. They need to find a way to make learning your buttons and general play fun instead of having them jump into training mode and labbing combos they can't perform in battle because they don't know how to get a starting hit in.

[@howard8614]

my favorite addition is the music names in the top left corner. I've been trying to find that Bowser Junior song for ages really appreciate it.

[@febreeze4655]

Cant believe he cut my tweet out of the youtube video

[@Gamersgoinblind]

As someone who loves fighting games to the point where I have over 600 of them, no. They will never be popular. As for the fighting games single player, it's primarily arcade ideology that has been slowly getting pushed aside finally with indie fighters working on better single player content

[@Hiswf_]

3:20 I actually would love to see a story mode in smash ultimate and I don't mean world of the light but rather brawl story mode type

[@unity2808]

Haven’t watched the video yet but ready to see coney spit the worst takes yet, haven’t been let down once yet.

[@SP_Sour]

I think that first fighting games one is wrong not because fighting games are different, but because _all_ of those games should have some kind of single player mode. Splatoon is an online team FPS, and guess what, it has a story mode! Splatoon 2 even got DLC levels! If it didn't have that, I'm not sure I would have bothered with Splatoon 3. When I got Overwatch for Christmas and found out it was online-only with no story mode despite all the cinematic lore trailers advertising the game, I was pissed.

[@goldenft3208]

having someone think of me as way out of their depth/weird is like the entire goal though I love doing that. Oh yeah, you like games too? How was mario golf for the snes, my facorite game. It weeds people out

[@Joltman11]

2:48 You were right. The game already exists and is called Brawlhalla. The game on Steam has more players than SFV, Tekken 7, DBFZ, and GGST combined, and it seems that a smaller percentage of that game's playerbase plays it on Steam than those fighting games so the actual player count is even larger than that. Multiversus fell off because the game sucked, not because the model wasn't effective

[@ZRSBW]

We’re so fucking back

[@kadabraguy9846]

Imo the biggest reason AI will never take over the entertainment industry is because it is so heavily reliant on pre-existing material. A human can take real-life experiences and use them to shape art, but all the current AI programs use existing art to make stuff. They have no style behind them other than what they ripped off from someone else. And sure, there's a lot of derivative media out there, but the ones that people remember? The ones that have longterm appeal? Those require innovation, something none of the AI people are working on are capable of doing.

[@heroicgangster9981]

The only reason why I even like Call of Duty rn is because it had a campaign with fun characters. Titanfall failed as a brand for not having a campaign alongside the cool mecha combat idea. Fighting games can't just be good multiplayer games, they need to have good branding.

[@ElyParrot]

There's literally a writer's strike happening right now over AI taking their jobs... It's a 100% Opinion that we don't need to worry, not a 50/50 Factpinion

[@andymcclurg9916]

5:30 "Sekiro is bad TO HIM because he doesn't want to learn to parry" Literally based a whole segment on a faulty microanalysis (former fact and opinion vid)

[@Levi_Zacharias]

"I think there's enough good things in this world" -Coney

[@adv78]

MAN i missed Facts or Opinions, one of mt favorite Coney series, nice to see it to keep releasing from time to time

[@SamiJ1508]

We are definitely getting a Luigi mansion. I agree that we will have mario/Dk cinematic univers and possibly zelda, kirby and metroid movies but there is no reason to expect those to cross over with Mario. Maybe Kirby but I doubt it

[@moon8983]

16:00 CHAINLINK CHARGE FROM MARIO 3D WORLD BEING USED LETSGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[@HeftyDan]

18:05 you just perfectly described Family Guy's niche

[@Bonaby]

I peeped the BGM titles appearing at the top of the screen. Kinda godlike.

[@sawmillthrill]

didn’t make youtube but glad i was picked for fact and opinion anyways. even if chat said i was wrong, Coney said Fact

[@laythalsibai9848]

I “literally” only play CSGO to mess with people. Nothing more or nothing less. There’s something about making your team mates mad that’s just pure gold, but in a one v one fighting game when your messing around it doesn’t feel as sweet when u don’t have team mates laughing along.

[@captainphoton1693]

The different amount of player between fighting games and shooters is just that. A difference. Shooters are more democratized. Its more natural for people to play thoses games and so they tend to lean towards thoses games. But hey, what are the best smaller shooter? Call of duty is probably the bigesst paid one. What part of that game has a lot of players, the solo mode.

[@koth_harvest_final]

3:00 erm editor he was talking about icons combat arena

[@SsjkidsSaveCosmo08]

That last one is liget something I'm scared of

[@RobeBLB]

Talking about FPS games not having decent single player is wild, like plenty of people don't enjoy the CoD campaigns that are essentially big budget action movies with star power too.

[@juancarlosfernandezperez6843]

The first question regarding a Zelda movie would be... Cartoony or serious?

[@Voltrix77]

i think multiversus would've been a million dollar idea if it wasn't severely mishandled

[@princessluna8411]

on the second one... you clearly have never seen splatoon 3 you gotta wait like 3 mins to avoid the same lobby if you wanna back out and find a new room

[@AWanderingSwordsman]

People that don't think AI can create don't realize that people also can't really create. All human creation is, is rearranging and combining things we already know. You can't come up with a truly novel idea. Like right now, Imagine a color you've never seen. You can't do it. Imagine a type of sound you've never heard. You can't do it. Imagine an emotion you've never felt. You can't do it. Humans are a lot less impressive than most of you think and AI or even less than AI, but sophisticated algorithms could reproduce the results of what we consider emotional and passionate art. It's just barely not there yet, but it absolutely will be, and probably pretty soon.

[@pipinghotanddisgusting]

I think the thing a lot of people are worried about (or at least I am) is the idea of individuals taking credit for not only an idea but also a creation the put little effort into making real, or large corporate entities factory manufacturing content of various types where they don’t need to pay people for the creation of it. I don’t think the argument was ever really about whether people or ai technically have original ideas or not. Ai can be a useful but I also think there is genuine risk for people in the business of creating things that should probably be regulated to some degree. At least as long as people require jobs to survive.

[@Captain_Bobvious]

"No way I get that guy again" CONEY HAVE YOU EVER PLAYED OVERWATCH?? YOU CAN'T ESCAPE THEM SOMETIMES

[@That_Guy--]

Coney we don't need garbage filler content on TV cuz we can just watch you instead

[@StephanieAwesom]

I agree with the one about talking to strangers about gaming, none the less, I'm gonna nerd the fuck out about my silly little indie games to anyone if given the chance

[@ngcf4238]

4:00 Coney does not understand Skill Based Matchmaking, I wish I could say what you said Coney but instead the game says "you are too good compared to the average player so the enemy team is stacked with OK players and because you are so good your teammates will always sucks to balance things out" I'm talking about COD specifically here but it is a larger issue too - 4:23 Tiki Badger in the chat gets it

[@jakeberry9931]

I can see why you haven't done this bit in a while. I read the replies for the tweet asking for opinions and man...rough reading 😭

[@PeppySweetheart]

15:30 Man, Coney is spitting. Thats actually really good advice

[@wizdakilla7320]

2:51 he talks about a f2p platform fighter would make free money then says he was wrong but... did we forget about brawlhalla?

[@SeikOsito]

"would donkey Kong do as good as Yoshi?" Monkeys and Dinosaurs, Coney are you high? It's America

[@TheBeanMuncher]

1:08 does anybody know what the opinion sound effect is called? I keep hearing it from time to time and it's driving me crazy that I can't find it.

[@entenboot]

Fog Horn

[@KandiKid87]

Lol I love "Fact or Opinion". Keep 'em comin'!

[@matthewbartlett3442]

I think talking with gamers in public is better if you don’t get stuck on one game and keep cascading like coney said. If you are a one-game Owen both normies and gamers are going to think you’re a nerd

[@pipinghotanddisgusting]

Or you can just have social skills and read the person your talking to. Not try to follow some cracked social formula and try to “win” the conversation or whatever coney was trying to describe there.

[@kalecraft8906]

Thank you for the Barry shout out. That show is fucking amazing and not enough people are watching it

[@RemiAutor]

Regarding the first one, every Moba in existence has bots.

[@kaizerprobablydoesntdoanyt180]

I for sure have to use the level up method to talk to is a new person. But a lot of my office aren't normies so at least I didn't accidentally screw that up. (Though it was entirely possible)

[@Xxblade17]

Here we go

[@ireaperslegend7426]

I’ve been playing fighting games my whole life but never play online lol

[@sydneywest1623]

Coney talking about ai like ai presidents isn’t already my existence

[@captainphoton1693]

AI will be a tool used by actual people. And as people always do they will always find a way to make stuff cheaper, easier, faster and more convenient. And then some other people will take those advancement and instead of stopping there they will push human art higher than ever withe the same amount of ressources. And then come the last part where people see the tech and instead of fighting their and others people ideas, they will battle the tech and make it do unspeakable things (kinda what's happening with 3d films right now)

[@Slyith444]

They will never be popular because you can't pretend to be better than someone in a fighting game

[@FoxVll]

21:05 i think a Splatoon anime could be really good/interesting any thoughts?

[@MrOofio64]

Let's go!!!!! Facts and Opinions time! (Hope I made it...)

[@MrOofio64]

I don't think I made it :(

[@gummyb426]

What was your statement?

[@MrOofio64]

@@gummyb426 lemme find my response rq

[@gummyb426]

@@MrOofio64 Did you put it on the ocean floor or something?

[@MrOofio64]

@@gummyb426 Bro KZbin removed the link my bad

[@hunterculpepper1973]

Making a slendytubbies smash platform fighter would be absolutely hilarious

[@nexonus9513]

NOBODY CARES ABOUT SINGLE PLAYER MODES IN FIGHTING GAMES

[@goatfood1504]

Sub space embassary was lit

[@lowstandards3148]

It’s a fact that this series slaps. And I’ll fight you on that.

[@ServingKant290]

Nah dude the DK movie is gonna go crazy. It'll be as good as Mario was, but it'll have a plot.

[@kevingrabow2368]

Best segment is back🎉

[@pwizandtheween3652]

Most tv shows shouldn't run past 5 seasons. Honestly 3 would be good enough. I feel like seasons 2-3 are usually the best for shows. Then it generally goes downhill from there

[@hunterculpepper1973]

Or just a teletubbies smash game because it sounds funny I'd play it for the memes but slendytubbies really is perfect for a platform fighter

[@MrSkerpentine]

Only thing I’ll say about the Nintendo Cinematic Universe *Illumination-produced Metroid Movie* Do you really want that.

[@Yuhara_rev]

Ngl coney kinda convinced me on the tv shows one.

[@headwaste5277]

That last point made me so angry

[@arirought531]

the first 2 being opinions is the most league player take ive ever heard from coney

[@Dliciousization]

The talking about games thing is especially weird for me since I find a lot of other women don't really have any idea what you're talking about, and a lot of guys turn it into some bizarre dick measuring competition where it doesn't matter how much I game, it's never enough to be a part of the gamer club. So unless I'm at an event and can socialize with other women or I'm hanging with guys that I already know and trust, I kinda keep it to myself.

[@_Gemkas_]

Dude please make more of this series 😂🔥

[@austinfletchermusic]

The NCU *WILL* happen, but I dunno if we should just ACCEPT it, as it were

[@LostCoin1]

Ai literally already writes fluff pieces for cheap news outlets. They're gonna be able to do a good amount of content, not focused around gaming or a skill because that seems like cheating.