Consciousness, Dissociation, Idealism, Materialism, Psychedelics, Death & Mind | Bernardo Kastrup

[@MindAndMatter]

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[@haroonaverroes6537]

by the way so-called reincarnation is correct, it is part of the life cycle on the planet earth, how could the apes solve this problem now?! it is real, no one can choose, the next could be in India, US, China, Somalia, Peru, Chad, Siberia, France, Australia, ….. anywhere, the illusions the apes live is just an illusion "all the apes are on the same boat" how could the apes solve this problem now?! Self concept can not create other self concept, even the faked imaginary gods can not do that, else they wouldn’t come from other star system to target cycle one on the cycle one of the planet earth. But the main question still there: how it ended up with human imprisoned among apes ! Self concept life cycle is only among the same kind ! There is who know the life cycle on the planet earth, I have noticed that in one of the religious books, mentioned the time of so called reincarnation, the source of most of religions is aliens. The gods of the apes were worried about this “the planet of the apes”! They worked hard to protect their nest, part of the apes are not apes anymore “tools”.

[@haroonaverroes6537]

16:15 he uses patching technique too ! the same story ! self concept is what generates consciousness type one and consciousness type two is just a small part of self concept. why they insist on .......... as patching technique ! what he said before 16:00 already was written before many years ago and more than two years ago on closer to truth. why they all insist on polluting ! they think I am guessing ! so they want to guess too using thievery as patching techniques ! meta meta .... what is this!

[@hatchlingone]

This is so great to hear you, Bernardo. I have been one of your biggest advocates and fans ever since I started listening to your talks about a year ago. I cannot get enough of these positive messages. You bring a lot of comfort to a lot of people. Thank you for all of your studies. I have 3 of your books.

[@booJay]

As a lifelong materialist, it seemed so easy and sensible to defend my point of view because of how practical, pragmatic, and supposedly impartial the scientific approach is. Idealism would have never crossed my mind (no pun intended) because it almost seems to require a leap of faith to accept, i.e., sounds too religious. But when you really think about the things science currently can't explain adequately, that means there has to be some other underlying truth, and something like idealism might be the only way forward. I hope Bernardo continues to have more discussions with world leading materialists/scientists and convince us all that what he is espousing is in fact "closer to the truth," as Robert Kuhn would say.

[@scottnorvell2955]

I was a hard core materialist for 60 years. BL has changed my view. He has many debates on line with materialist. BK was a material studying artificial intelligence when he disgusted out that he had been wrong.

[@ezbody]

Brilliant, just keep believing some arbitrary bs, because "science can't explain it". Science always couldn't explain things, so people philosophized explanations into existence. Yet, regardless of what it was, they always turned out to be wrong, every single time. So, with a 100% failure of trying to explain things through sheer imagination (i.e. philosophy), you really want to believe that the bs that Kastrap hallucinated under the influence of LSD or magic mashrooms has a chance of being true, and that's facing an unlimited number of possible explanations - worse than a lottery!!! Are you serious??? Anyone, who takes things they hallucinated while being high seriously is a lunatic, there is no other way to put it. What would happen if everyone starts believing everything they experience while being high??? Is that rational?

[@jenmdawg]

I just wrote this same thing almost word for word to my fellow hardcore atheist-materialist peer from my academic days. He’s positive I’ve crossed into delusion - he doesn’t yet know how delightful idealism is for the mind.

[@Chris-wm7zt]

I have been binging BK interviews non-stop. Can’t get enough of his unique ontological perspective.

[@kafkaten]

Same. I feel like he's encapsulating a lot of instinctual feelings I've been having after reading Schopenhauer and reading up on recent physics.

[@peteraddison4371]

... closer&closer, with patient-patience, in attendant-attention, here-there, there-there, their-there, hear-hear, now-then, & THERE, slowly, slowly, out from an entangled, messy heap of knotty nots, & conglomerated amalgamations, a continuous straight line thread of kNEW & comprehendable understanding emerges into sight, & a wide gap ditch is overcome with a long pole, vaulting stick, that can also be used to get over an unclimbable vertically high wall. & We discover that both horizontality & verticality can be breached with the same tool, & THEE same goes for quantum jumps&leaps&hops to N-E-W-ARE-!?!?! ...

[@starxcrossed]

You did a really good job getting him to answer questions that clarify his position even more! I especially like the part where he explains the four philosophies. I finally understand why idealism makes the most sense, and not just from my intuition alone (I try not to accept ideas just because I like them). Thank you for doing this podcast!

[@rooruffneck]

Love how Kastrup unpacks Schopenhauer.

[@terrencelaitnesba563]

Still blown away that this channel is not bigger. Some of the best content around.

[@humanage1547]

Been waiting for a proper philosophy of mind episode! Stoked

[@ElleUzun]

I can't believe I get to be alive at the same time as this guy :)

[@JM-co6rf]

what would it mean to see the world as it 'really is'? literally what even would that look like?

[@starxcrossed]

When you ask him about split brain patients… you need to read the work of dr Iain McGilchrist- he has the most thorough research on the subject of hemisphere difference. Bernardo is right that something is subtly impaired and that the hemispheres need each other but it’s SUCH a deep subject. There’s a theory that evolution lateralized brain function so that the left hemisphere is dedicated to language and tool making. The right hemisphere is our “real brain”. This is proven from left vs right hemisphere damage.

[@meowmeow83]

One of the top discussions with Bernardo. Loved every minute!

[@DavidLowe1974]

Wasn't it! Really first class stuff.

[@canisronis2753]

One of the best Bernardo interviews! Well done and thank you!

[@franswa529]

This was a F******g great interview!

[@toomanydonuts]

Ask Bermardo if he agrees that focused, intentioned awareness affects the probability of matter and outcome. I am sure from him having a CS PHD that he will understand that statement. I would like to hear what he says when you ask him if that is why man has perpetually created beliefs, rituals, practices in his conscious world to better the outcome for survival? Please ask him that question. I will keep trying to get an answer from him on that. It just makes sense.

[@SunnyDayTeaFactory]

Nick, you have unique style - I enjoyed the conversation. I can only digest it in small bites, but here I am again. Bernardo is great!

[@moesypittounikos]

Near the end Bernardo is so deep. What a profound dude he is! What a swimmer in the ocean!

[@opensourceradionics]

1:07:00 is he serious about asking why it is worth making a difference between materialism and idealism?

[@notthisnotthat2023]

Really good interview with Bernardo. Thanks. Reminded of Rupert Spira's understanding of encountering 'beauty' as the dissolution of the individual self.

[@MindAndMatter]

Thanks! If you like this episode, I recommend this one with Terrence Deacon: mindandmatter.substack.com/p/purpose-value-evolution-consciousness?Fsearch%2Fdeacon&

[@RighteousMonk-m1m]

One of the best interviews of B.K. 👌 B.K. discovered the theory of everything, finally.

[@MindAndMatter]

Thanks! You might like episodes if you liked this one: substack.com/search/consciousness?focusedPublicationId=513528&searching=focused_posts

[@AtypicalPaul]

My concept of reality lines up the most to bernardo. It would be amazing to talk to him.

[@DavidLowe1974]

Nick, something tells me that you would do very well interviewing Donald Hoffman. You seem to touch on telling points that other interviewers skip over or don’t do justice to which makes discussions such as this one with Bernardo so engaging. Keep up the great work!

[@MindAndMatter]

Thank you - Conversation with Hoffmann likely happening late March.

[@peteraddison4371]

​@@MindAndMatter... A w-hole class of previously disper8 & indivu8ed feilds of study {A'R'E-NO*W} com-ming 2gAthAH up T-HA peace's of thee most imedi8ly perplex$ing problems, that of human8tease combined & cooper8ive & continunced exi-$ting ...

[@royalton2166]

Wouldn't a flock of starlings, a school of fish or crowd mentality be examples of many minds somehow combining to form one mind before they disperse back to individual minds? Just curious if this could be an example of subject combination.

[@DamienMcKinnon]

I wouldn't say in their moments of flying or swimming in unison they have merged and become one subjective viewpoint, just as I wouldn't say an audience of 100,000 people singing in unison at Wembley Stadium merged into one subjective viewpoint.

[@royalton2166]

@@DamienMcKinnon Yes you are likely correct. The phenomenon of murmuration with starlings leaves one wondering however if some kind of collective or mind at large partakes. It's as if they participate in a dazzling airborne dance creating so many beautiful patterns. Amazing to watch.

[@DamienMcKinnon]

@@royalton2166 I guess it can't be completely ruled out, but I'm just going with the most likely of the 2 scenarios ie that they are individual minds acting synchronously during a communal activity.

[@royalton2166]

@@DamienMcKinnon I'll often pull over to watch them when I get a chance. It can be spellbinding. Thanks for your insight and take care.

[@angelotuteao6758]

Kastrup’s luminous intellect shines with special brilliance in this extraordinary interview 👏 There’s no doubt BK is the leading public intellectual of our times. ❤

[@estellescholtz5619]

Kastrup and Jocha Bach?

[@hatchlingone]

And I subscribed, Nick! Thank you very much!

[@koadaboss5665]

Holy shit this is eloquently put

[@lcarthel]

Great talk!!! Dude is so smart!

[@garypuckettmuse]

How is this Analytic Idealism *any* different than advaita vedanta or buddhism? I realize Kastrup doesn't include everything in those massive philosophies but everything he says seems to be included in all eastern Philosophies. Nisargatta Maharaj elucidates all this in his books. Everyone from Alan Watts forward (in English) has said we have "dissociated" from ourselves. "The Ground of Being" One thing/No thing I mean these ideas are literally at least five thousand years old. Perhaps not using that exact word but who is building a whole "new" philosophy on a single word borrowed from Jung?

[@panicsum]

Bernardo's conversations with Rupert Spira are extremely interesting and you're absolutely correct about the overlaps.

[@booJay]

I recall hearing Bernardo saying that he stumbled upon his conclusions about reality independently from Eastern philosophies, and felt validated when he found out others had already made these discoveries centuries/millennia before. However, that actually raises some flags with me because you shouldn't rely on that for confirmation. It doesn't make sense to assume that others truly knew what was going on without the tools we have today to support their arguments. Yes, philosophy is important and can lead to great insights, but that's within the realm of speculation and you can't argue against the progress STEM has contributed to our understanding of the world. If one discipline can support the other, great. But one is objective and you'd be hard pressed to convince anyone that subjectivity is the better (more accurate) way moving forward. That said, I am intrigued by what Bernardo has to say and hope he continues to make a stronger case to support his views, and if it just so happens to mesh with older teachings, that's just an added bonus.

[@garypuckettmuse]

@@booJay I would call them timeless teachings. It's hard to get into this stuff with people who have no intuition or personal "sense" of the world and just keep grabbing at STEM which is never going to stand still and today's science is tomorrows garbage, we all know that. I think if people are just relying on scientific tests to find out what it means to be a sentient being why do they even bother thinking about it? I completely understand your points and they are well worn paths but humans used to be able to take that leap and now they want "proof" before they leap. Just let go and all will be revealed. It's not the proprietary knowledge of anyone, it's what YOU ARE. TAT TVAM ASI. Every infant born knows it. May all beings be free! Everything that ever happened happened on a hunch. All the rest is commentary on that hunch.

[@starxcrossed]

Around the 45:00 mark he starts talking about self deception based on assumptions etc- it is for the need of having a “final answer” in order to make a decision. Practically, it’s necessary in life. But for finding truth, this is a path only for the dedicated because the answer may never be final. I like your quoting on Huxley by the way. Brilliant and interesting man.

[@1234carlie]

Bernardo should debate Sam Harris

[@steveosborne3714]

Bernardo's had written debates with him - visit his site to see them - and he has a very dim view of him, which, given Harris' godawful contribution to those debates, is completely understandable. He's been scathing about him in some of his interviews, too.

[@coryc.9709]

I experienced the state Bernardo speaks about at the end. Like being in the center of the sun. As I backed out, or gained some sense of perspective, like being on the surface of the sun an entity showed me how realities are formed, like a coronal mass ejection returning to itself, returning to the source. Arising and passing away. A piece of logic, if you will, interjected that proliferates, a riddle who's solution is always itself. At this time I had the thought, my first logical thought, "I wonder what (my partner) will think when she comes home and finds my body." Before that of course there was no body, no me, no her, no beings, no home, no world, nor the absence of them either. That piece of logic, kind of as a cosmic "see I told you so" put the whole thing back together again. We might call that logic physics in our reality, but I think closer to the truth is that it is created around the notion of a self. That self can be egoless, and it can be very very subtle, but it runs very deep. There are other realities that don't have that sense, nor anything resembling physics. Some "beings" have to fabricate a facsimile, or cover the visual field with a screen to make what is being seen even remotely comprehensible to our minds. Anyway, thank you for your description, Bernardo. If more of us made these journeys, our reality would shift dramatically, and perhaps we are , perhaps it is.

[@peteraddison4371]

... a great & virtually boundlesson encapsulation there, Coric. Bernardo, like a mentat-sage, is nature-ally bridging many logic&intuitive visions, making it possible for many previously disperate feilds to converge & effectively communicate. THAT will disspell & dissolve many problems. Cheers, from OZ way down under in Australia ...

[@schmetterling4477]

And this, kids, is the reason why you shouldn't take drugs. ;-)

[@starxcrossed]

Last comment I promise! I finally understood the dissociation metaphor. It would seem like trauma is what creates the dissociation. It also happens to be that trauma, in a sense, drives evolution. Wow.

[@seraon6736]

What does that exactly mean ?

[@ChestertonSam-p5x]

Rodriguez Carol White Kenneth Jackson Betty

[@kgrandchamp]

Thanks for this amazing discussion Bernardo and Nick! A few thoughts that popped into my mind is the difference between MaL and my mind. My dream avatars don't seem to have any real dissociative boundaries and also the "material" environments my mind creates don't seem to leave any traces in my mind (brain?) that resemble nor persist as what would look like the/a "physical world"! so there seem to be some major differences here in the qualities and potentials of the two minds. Just thoughts! Thanks for the amazing talk! Hope to hear you guys again! 🌿

[@MsCankersore]

Im a little confused where he says we will be able to build private conscious inner life like the one we have but we won’t be able to do it with computers? Before he said that it’s absurd or ridiculous to even imagine that we can have AI having private inner consciousness?

[@wenasholeranch]

“The hard problem of consciousness doesn’t describe a problem that can be solved in principle”, but it describes a principle that can be solved by problems 😂

[@VenusLover17]

Thanks so much for This! Help so much

[@alexjan108]

Wow what incredible experiences you revealed to us. I could feel them through your telling. That Bernardo dared to jump into the rabbit hole and longed to go beyond reveals his maturity of mind. So happy to know so beautiful souls on this incredible road to ourselves…best regards from Vienna

[@Sameer-er3wz]

Very interesting, thank you. The Buddhist Void is probably the Hindu Brahman. The state of experiencing it is called Nirvikalpa Samadhi. It is supposed to be the first step to "Not Two". Retaining that state/experience in day- to-day life is the next step. That is called Sahaja Samadhi (the natural state 😄), the second and final step to "Not Two", a fully enlightened being, a Gnani, a Buddha. Bernardo, you are halfway there albeit with a little help help 😀. The pain that Bernardo said he felt when he came out of the state of void is exactly what the mystics say. Pure misery.

[@hatchlingone]

Holy shit, that was intense at the end.

[@dexx44]

Just a comment for the algorithm. I would question why these matters have not more attention... but 1sec into Instagram and I got the answer. Thanks for sharing these themes

[@SherwoodBurke-g9s]

Lopez Kimberly Lee Kimberly Lee Matthew

[@RighteousMonk-m1m]

This man is something!😮 omg! Unbelievable!

[@MichaelSmith420fu]

Explanation powers add up to..mblehh

[@BenRoderick-h3h]

Wilson Jason Miller Helen Hall Sharon

[@hansfrankfurter2903]

That’s actually a good point against IIT.

[@rooruffneck]

Great stuff. Bernardo way overstates his idea that we are not meta-conscious in dreams, but his general point is great and important.

[@oliviergoethals4137]

You indeed can be meta-conscious in your dream, but than you are having a lucid dream. You are then aware of fact that you are aware of having a dream. Also you can remember a part of your dream while awake but that doesn't imply that you were meta-conscious while dreaming. It just reflects aspects of the phenomenal content you where dreaming. + Keep in mind that remembering is always a constructed act in the now.

[@MICKEYISLOWD]

@@oliviergoethals4137 I sometimes awaken whilst dreaming. It is an odd feeling especially when you want to move your body but you can't move anything. I couldn't even open my eyes or move them. Imagine waking up whilst under anesthetic during an operation!! This has happened to people and they develop PTSD afterwards. When I was awaken I wasn't still dreaming at the same time because this could be terrifying if monsters are chasing you and you think they are real or don't know the difference. There are different ways in how all this can happen.

[@kafkaten]

Great interview!

[@AtypicalPaul]

Hope my computer doesn't pee on my desk lol

[@Thomas-gk42]

That unpleasant guy again 😢

[@Meditation409]

Profound and absolutely addicting material! I love his colleagues Bernard Carr, Rupert Sheldrake, Rupert Spira, Donald Hoffman!! Their like the Rat Pack of Consciousness topics!!! 🤩❤

[@SoyOtroTu]

We are exceptionally fortunate. In the whole history of humankind, we are witnessing the emergence of a remarkably beautiful and potent alter ego of the Universal Mind - Bernardo Kastrup's Mind. Share it.

[@rodolforesende2048]

around 1:08:40 bernardo says: doctors should be like car mechanics, it's a matter of mechanics, so the only tools available are (1)surgery and (2)drugs[...] aspects of your inner life that are beyond instrospection that are not metacognitive like your repressed emotions, your repressed memories, all that stuff that you never integrated, your fantasies that you don't think you have, your inclinations that you reject and you're ashamed of, all that stuff taken together looks like a human body, a metabolizing human body, so, if the body is just what mentation looks like, then you get a third avenue for health care, and that's (3)talk therapy to put it bluntly it's to learn how to mature... reconcile yourself with the facts of nature, the bad and the good and the good and the bad. ----- This "talk therapy" exists... freud, lacan, several others tried to create a "body of knowledge" on "talk therapy" ,,, I guess bernardo is trying to say that if "idealism" is advanced as an ontology then "talk therapy" will have more solid grounds... and not be the playground of charlatans, but unfortunately the interviewer did not allow bernardo to elaborate on this important "facet"/dimension/aspect.

[@Jagombe1]

This conversation is awesome! Towards the end, BK seems to be explaining Chapter 11 of the Baghavad Gita; where Arjuna pleaded to be returned to what he knows, for he could not withstand the sight of what he was shown to be the Reality of Existence.

[@anthonyverbalis4272]

Good interview and good questions. There are some things Bernardo says which are so true, that it seems as if you want to agree with him on everything he says. But that would be a mistake. When he claims that inanimate matter, like a piece of rock, cannot be considered independently of other matter, it makes no sense at all, and his arguments resemble hand-waving. And when he says that matter is just what Universal Mind looks like across a dissociative boundary, it begs the question of why exactly it looks the way it does? It makes the question of how mind and matter interact in dualism seem conceptually simple by comparison. There is a Universal Mind, and it is true that we are dissociated parts of it. But the existence of inanimate, unconscious matter does not negate the existence and reality of Universal Mind Many, if not most of Bernardo's arguments are not invalidated by the ontological existence of matter. But Bernardo insists on conceptual ontological simplicity, even if there is no good reason for this other than his personal preference. Me, while valuing Bernardo's insights and his superb ability to express those insights, it seems clear that we need both matter and mind to maximize our understanding of a reality which is fundamentally dualistic in nature.

[@realcygnus]

The Cat's meow !

[@laisa.]

kastrup's decription at around 2:17, of coming back from one of his trips.... yikes. It was claustrophobic only to listen to. Don't experiment with this, folks... :-(. .... although I would love to hear more about what he has seen doing this. Is there an intervju where Kastrup elaborates on his psychedelic trips?

[@nosafespace.4marty]

I don't encourage or discourage people from psychedelics, that said, they have provided me with some of the most profound moments of my existence

[@samrowbotham8914]

Where is Sabine lol

[@MICKEYISLOWD]

Sabine is a little pippy, especially with Bernardo.

[@Mandibil]

bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla ... and therefore there is a god !

[@nosafespace.4marty]

In other words, you don't get it..

[@Mandibil]

@@nosafespace.4marty Get what ?

[@nosafespace.4marty]

@@Mandibil Exactly my point.

[@Mandibil]

@@nosafespace.4marty It is a question. Explain what you mean !!

[@nosafespace.4marty]

@@Mandibil Quite simple, your statement seems to reflect a lack of comprehension about what was said. And it what I mean seems quite clear, so to keep asking only reinforces the point. ;)

[@haroonaverroes6537]

he is irrational uses thievery as patching technique like many other irrational thieves, there is something attracts the apes to each other! it is irrationality itself no doubt.

[@hatchlingone]

What in the hell are you talking about.

[@pythIV]

can you stand by what you claim? you don't have to answer and since you will not..guess who the ape is.

[@nosafespace.4marty]

@@hatchlingone I don't think they know