The Witch Trials of J.K. Rowling | ContraPoints

[@ContraPoints]

Is it grooming if I tell you to like and subscribe?

[@remytwoshoes1769]

We missed you mother

[@derp777_]

yeah it is sorry

[@ehkoin]

Yes

[@ryanphoenix2460]

Yes

[@unfathomable3434]

Technically

[@Rosie-co9wb]

"I'm switching to Twilight" Masterful foreshadowing

[@Immaculate_he4rt]

🤯

[@Mikeybuttz]

Took her a while to read it

[@buttershady24]

Forreal!!!

[@ihateunicorns867]

I didn't think she was serious.

[@Kaykaycoo]

Amen

[@juanfelipegodoy4011]

My favorite part of harry potter is when harry debates voldemort in the marketplace of ideas and makes structural change through it

[@susanthejew6351]

my favorite parts is after that where they watch schindlers list together to understand demonizing people only brings forth left wing propagandist that kill in the millions (hitler mao stalin)

[@_Sakidora_]

If you're a member of a cult that is spouting an ideology which is illogical, incoherent, and unscientific and encourages the grooming, and chemical and surgical mutilation of children you should expect people to demand you explain yourselves. No debate isn't an option for you, certainly not as a long-term strategy.

[@michellegodwin6567]

The Death Eaters, after participating in an invigorating yet polite debate with the Order of the Phoenix, decided not to continue murdering Muggles and imprisoning Muggle-borns

[@_Sakidora_]

@@michellegodwin6567 Then they went into gender-affirming care. I hear they're doing really well there.

[@extermin8or3]

The bit you miss though is that the death eaters weren't trying ti have a debate (although defeating their ideas and views publicly IS a crucial part in defeating them, thwre is a reason the nazis burned books that they didnt agree with- to prevent people reading them. Its ultimately why groups like the blackshirts here in the uk never really got a foothold because their views were defeated publicly. The death eaters in the books start off using tactics of intimidation and silencing dissenting voices. Thus using violence against them is not unreasonable. Meanwhile someone like jk rowling ultimately isn't trying to stop others speaking their mind and that is the fundamental difference.

[@bstumer]

My wife and I, old white couple in our late 60's, really love your videos. We so appreciate the educated opinions you present and thank you for your efforts in the face of the many people who, I am sure, are sending hate your way. Please keep on, you are great!

[@delfee]

This is such a wholesome comment. The effort she puts in is top notch ❤

[@TheOuroborosisbroken]

Love to see the older generations on KZbin comments, it's refreshing. I can't fathom having lived through as many world changing events as you probably had, and the perspective that comes from it. Sometimes this feels like an eco chamber for twentysomethings

[@elizabeth--thefibrochef]

I love you both!

[@imbetter599]

they will murder you too,

[@0x20pirate]

blessed post

[@forgetmiiknot]

"harry potters dead to me, I'm switching to twilight" *Makes 3 hr long video about twilight 10 months later 👍👸*

[@scheitahnberg]

gestation period

[@walruswasrob]

No, Natalie! Don’t do it!!!

[@vitorpinho3290]

She was not joking lol

[@mrsnail8664]

@@scheitahnberg 1 extra mont to fully gestate, truly a hard child

[@Lise-in-the-Streets]

No literally that's such a good video though. haha

[@LauraGrrrr5370]

Of all the pearls being clutched I love "KIDS ARE PRETENDING TO BE ANIMALS!!" the most. Have these people ever been around a kid. I would seriously love to meet one kid who never, ever, ever, pretended to be a horse or a tiger or a cat or a dog while playing.

[@ScorpionViper1001]

The ultimate sign we live in the dumbest timeline is that conservatives are trying to make fursecution an actual thing.

[@Thesecretvalley]

When I was a child, I refused to play pretend as anything but an animal until I was about 9/10. Oddly never became a furry...

[@ragalyiakos]

While we're here, I'd like to remind everyone that if you ever come across the claim that "There are literboxes in schools in America for kids who think they're animals" is bullshit. There are literboxes in some classrooms in America. So that during a schools shooting, kids can still relieve themselves without leaving the classroom. Which is fucking horrifying.

[@TheShadowOfMars]

owo

[@AZ-ty7ub]

At most, the people that guy was talking about were highly stressed autistic children trying to cope in an environment that was not made for them. I'm autistic and school was hell for me, so to cope I would pretend I was wolf beyond the age that it was acceptable, and I would bark and howl in school. Not because I "identified" as a wolf, but because the school environment was so deeply hostile and triggering to me as an autistic child and I recieved little to no accommodations that my only recourse was essentially to dissociate and detach from my own personhood just to survive day to day. Something tells me people like him have no sympathy for autistic children either.

[@zazaisms]

This video promted me to do a little bit more research on Anita Bryant. As I'm not from the US and this part of history isn't really well known here. Turns out, that when she tried to give a concert in my country (The Netherlands) in 1977, it sparked a huge protest. So huge in fact that that was the first Dutch Pride.

[@thebiggestcauldron]

Can't believe this American woman was so influential that she started the first Pride in the country of Europe! What an icon!😊

[@Rettequetette]

Heh, I didn't know that. Nice! (a fellow Dutchie :-) )

[@dont_harsh_my_mellow]

❤Iconic Protesting❤

[@michaelcordeiro12]

I've changed my mind on Anita bryant. She is secretly an ally and did the worst job imaginable as a villain to further the lgbt cause. Thank you sister Bryant.

[@booknerdnova3151]

Echt? Dat wist ik niet. Nice.

[@Princess_Weekes]

Highlighting Anita Bryant was a great way of highlighting how we have been here before. And how we have gone harder than like ... asking people to not play a video game. If only Bryant had written a mid-series of books about magic before she became a bigot.

[@thesupremeadmiral]

Hey, I love your channel. It's extremely difficult to stumble onto content by black creators thanks to KZbin algorithms, especially black women creators. I've come to rely more and more on shout-outs from other youtubers who highlight the work of their peers. Let me take this opportunity to shout-out your channel to any other interested commenters.

[@abyrupus]

Funny thing about Anita Bryant is that after she divorced her husband, the religious fundamentalists she had sided with - turned against her for promoting divorce and immorality among women. Which is what happens when you side with bigots against the people you hate. After they are done, the bigots will come after you.

[@shongueesha7875]

Still, pls don't attack, harass or try to get people to not play a videogame. It just will never work, it will not bring people on our side, especially not when it can only be so hypocritical living in the west. We all own a smart phone, mostly by apple or samsung who both have committed atrocities, and you are not out here boycotting phones. This could go on and on and on, what cereal brand you eat etc. It's just attacking the wrong people for the wrong thing and it only serves to push the people we want to change away.

[@b4rbarbar]

Princess Weekes! I love the comments of other creators in the channels I follow... Real life easter eggs 😅😅 yall make my existence a lil more bearable..

[@cookie5535]

@@shongueesha7875 Lmfao. Boycotts are an ancient part of our civilization and they absolutely work. We should not play things which will fund bigots

[@MalkuthSephira]

the really brutal thing about Megan is that that she's horrified about how destructive and damaging her behavior originally was, but the position she's in now is actually a lot more dangerous and a lot more meaningfully destructive, because there are vastly more people who will listen to her from where she is now who never would have listened to the Obvious Lunatic From Westboro

[@jam-trousers]

Damn that’s brutal. But you ain’t wrong. Sheeee

[@JennyNicholson]

It's important to note that the little Orange Bird in the Sunshine Tree did not support Anita's position on homosexuality but was unable to issue a public statement at the time because he can only communicate by thinking beautiful orange pictures

[@christinar4683]

I'm glad you spoke out about this, l was just about to cancel the bird

[@molli666]

It’s important to note that the little Contra Points in the KZbin Video did not support any evidence that homosexuality is in anyway comparable to being transgender, and, in fact (1:10:39), suggests that SOME trans women don’t experience a male puberty! Poor Points can’t even comprehend the idea of a child’s puberty being robbed from them, can only think in terms of beautiful images of Kim Petras at the Grammys.

[@valentine.58]

yass queen preach; orange bird would never stand for this

[@TalkingVidya]

I'm still convinced Jenny is a Fey

[@katiekohn00]

Thank you for speaking for those who sadly cannot in the form of internet

[@nickchambers3935]

It’s incredible to hear Graham talk about how “they took my family away”. Nobody took them away, his wife just decided to leave him based on his own actions, and it’s genuinely disturbing that he sees it that way

[@wolfpytlak2786]

Full on denial, if his ex did a public response to that it would deflate his online presence (and hopefully give him something to think about)

[@voidbreather7405]

@@wolfpytlak2786 Nah, people like him would just double down and refuse to budge in their denial.

[@teecakes]

In his eyes, better to blame strangers who he's never met than take accountability for his own crappy thoughts and actions.

[@nickchambers3935]

@@voidbreather7405 Yeah he'd probably just think "they've got to her too"

[@Vasoslaihiala]

@@voidbreather7405 Not deep down, where it matters, where it eats away at their soul, where it makes them live miserable, angry existences, which they deserve.

[@MrAcuriteOf1337]

Shout out to that Noah kid, who seems like an intelligent, articulate young man. Hope he does well.

[@StraveTube]

When did young people get so goddamn smart and well-spoken

[@Daniel-wr7yh]

@@StraveTube When we had to

[@charlottetaylor4471]

There's no such thing as "trans." Dangerous and delusional thinking. Can we be trans-age? Trans-race? Trans-species? Sex is a reality. Many gay people are against this trans agenda. If sex isn't a reality, then you're saying that homosexuality isn't a reality. So the trans agenda is also homophobic, as well as misogynistic. They want to "trans the gay away."

[@NightTimeDay]

He literally said he watched trans male youtube buzzfeed vids for years while very deeply mentally ill. The people said transitioning fixed all their problems. Then Noah went to a therapist who also happened to be a gender therapist and that is when, mysteriously, realized he was trans. Finally, he said he can't be wrong about his identity because all his doctors and therapists have affirmed. Yet they are legally obligated to affirm. I found Noah a case study in why we should all be extremely concerned.

[@azrael5493]

​@@NightTimeDayNo they aren't. Doctors and therapists are legally obligated to provide the best treatment to their patients. Why do transphobic doctors and therapists seem to not exist? Because they know what they're talking about and you don't.

[@jaxbraithwaite1819]

real talk this video took my brother in law from 'it's problematic on both sides' to seeing Jonky Rowboat for what she is

[@Wusaruful]

so he became a cu*k that day ?

[@sourdoebread]

I'm going to be calling JKR "Jonky Rowboat" from now on, thanks 😂

[@nicolegotberg]

Also helped me. Before, all the stuff I was seeing was extremism from both sides, so I was kind of like a "she's definitely problematic, but the backlash is too much" place before this video. I still think death threats are never okay but she could definitely use a pie.

[@fssstyuniaf]

​@nicolegotberg Not supporting death threats towards her dosen't make you anti trans or anything. It just makes you a reasonable person. I'm trans. Really not a fan of Jonky. Still wouldn't ever want her to be receiving intimidation/threats or attempts to actually hurt her though. How horrible. The pie I'm pretty 50/50 on though however 😂

[@Ellie-vb9vm]

​@@nicolegotberg at *least* it should be a fruit pie...

[@maaaaaaaaarcel]

"Megan's views about this only make sense if you assume that Megan is the main character of reality." Damn, girl.

[@SpaceCowboyKoala]

.

[@destroyedrapture]

I love attac Natalie

[@TobyRossi]

Natalie is probably one of the best youtubers I follow at reading someone. Probably because her statements aren't meant to destroy someone, she just points out how destroyed these people already are.

[@Doubtlessly]

It really was the quote of the whole video

[@Kikkarlin]

​@@TobyRossi that's such a beautiful way to put it. I think you hit the nail on the head with that.

[@lindseystein9676]

Anita Bryant claiming she can “relate to homosexuals” because of “emotional scars” reminds me of this therapist I had who said she could understand my struggle with addiction because she ate a lot of brownies and didn’t know if she could stop herself from having one after our session was over.

[@sage5296]

Ah yes, because she might literally die to to withdrawl symptoms from not having her brownies surely... I mean I get that they're trying to relate but it just ends up being projecting and diminishing the severity of the issue ("oh aren't we all a little OCD?" etc.). You can empathize with people without having to have had similar experiences anyways to boot.

[@ms.bunniesarecute2287]

😂😂😂 omg. That's kinda sweet though, ngl.

[@ince55ant]

@@sage5296 if i dont get my brownie fix im stuck in bed shitting into a bucket

[@FrozEnbyWolf150]

Your therapist might have been well-intentioned, unlike Bryant, but I've found that it tends to come across a lot better regardless if one says, "I can't understand what it's like to go through that. All I have is this experience of my own." Then let the person decide if it's relatable to them.

[@lindseystein9676]

It would have been misguidedly sweet if she wasn’t already very condescending. Luckily I was able to switch to another person not too long after that.

[@SheilaCrosby]

Thank you for the motte and bailey explanation. Another favourite is "paltering" where each individual statement is true, but the reader/listener is left with a totally false impression. Marjorie Taylor Greene does it too. "This hospital treats transgender people. They perform genital surgeries. Their youngest patients are 8 years old." All true, but they don't do genital surgeries on minors. The 8 year olds are talking to psychologists.

[@FreeTheDonbas]

"Transgender" used to be considered a type of DSD, which is why "normalizing surgeries" were promoted as the treatment. It seems nothing as changed. Trans-identified people outside the West don't require any medical intervention or psychological analysis.

[@oiytd5wugho]

Those statements are always so painful, because hospitals _do_ perform genital surgeries on children every day, not trans children that need them (trans teenagers should have access to surgery, just like cis teens do) but intersex children that have no idea what's going on (not to mention the deranged obsession over foreskins)

[@SheilaCrosby]

@@oiytd5wugho I'm so sorry that I hurt you. I thought they'd stopped doing that to intersex babies, but your comment makes me realise that it's unlikely to have stopped everywhere. As you say, it's awful. And circumcision. And FGM. Why can't society let people decide for themselves?

[@oiytd5wugho]

@@SheilaCrosby oh, no, _you_ did not hurt me, don't worry. We only moved forward a little bit, there's more bans on FGM (hence why I didn't mention it) but other than that, they can still do whatever at hospitals, pretty much. Still, there is progress, the hardest part is getting medical organizations to treat the issue appropriately - as in, if you do these procedures, we disavow you and you're not welcome anymore, like they do with capital punishment.

[@FreeTheDonbas]

@@oiytd5wugho "Trans" is the only type of "intersex" where surgical intervention is not considered malpractice.

[@micaelalue6441]

not even done w the video but as someone placed in the “angry black woman” role so often this video is really emphasizing to me that it’s okay for me to be angry about injustice when it’s my life at stake

[@ziglaus]

Depends on what you mean by "life"

[@NoTengoIdeaGuey]

​@@ziglaus nah, even in the metaphorical sense, people have plenty reason to be angry about their life being at stake. If you're not a little angry then you're not paying attention.

[@cyclogenesis3179]

it is always okay to be angry about injustice. no matter who it's happening to.

[@ruthie8785]

Never apologize for being angry when you have every right to be.

[@jessethomas9676]

@@micaelalue6441 You’ve never experienced injustice. The whole system privileges you. You’re angry because that’s who you are.

[@TheVivaciousNerd]

As a women who has been assaulted by multiple cis men, I understand fearing sexist violence. But you know who else understands this? Trans women. I was actually saved from possible assault once by a trans woman who found me drugged and vomiting in the street outside a bar - she immediately recognised that I was unsafe and called her friends back to come help me. Multiple men walked passed me before this and even joked about me having “one too many”… they weren’t trying to be cruel they just never considered how dangerous my position was. It took a woman to recognise how scary my predicament was, it had happened to her before. Im not saying that sexist violence is what makes us women, but I do think fear mongering about violent trans women distracts from the far far more common issue of violent cis men. This is why the right wing loves transphobia so much, because it turns the ire of so-called feminists against other women and away from men, thus allowing right wing men to quietly hold on to their seat at the top

[@b4rbarbar]

God, your comment made me cry, probably of how close to home it hit to home... It is wild to me how there are women out there that still prefer having a strong man (possibly a fascist one too) to protect them from the other crazed women than to stand together with all women against everything we are up against. Trans rights are human rights. By definition, no one is equal until everyone is equal.

[@CaulkMongler]

Exactly, they wanna protect children? Then why do they try so hard to defend the proven predators in politics, religion, education? It’s so thinly vague, it’s not even comedic.

[@Bette_B123]

Love love love this comment. Thanks so much to you and to all the cis women who have welcomed us transfemmes into womanhood. Not a day goes by that I don't feel privileged to be in your company.

[@sakurauchiha03]

Men

[@sakurauchiha03]

​@@Bette_B123 Stop using cis.

[@Sajirah]

The obsession with fertility is what always gets me with these people. They will swear up and down to you that they don’t think all women need to be birthing machines…but that’s exactly what they believe. I know this because boy did the true colors come out when I (a childless cis woman) had a hysterectomy. It was like I had told them that I’d had my lungs removed. They just couldn’t fathom a woman being a woman without that one particular organ because motherhood and womanhood are so closely entwined in their minds that they can’t imagine any woman WANTING such a thing.

[@chris7263]

They've internalized the misogyny 😢

[@warrencaelum9536]

like do they think all people want to pro-create and that's all were meant to do?💀

[@muchadoaboutninjas2659]

@@warrencaelum9536 from texas. yes. that is what they think womanhood is all about.

[@PeriapsisStudios2000]

@@muchadoaboutninjas2659 We should just nuke Texas at this point. Sure, there's a lot of good people there, but sometimes you have to amputate a limb if it's beyond saving.

[@4203105]

You are now officially a man in the TERFs eyes. Even though trans men don't exist. You still are one.

[@dekuswagg]

Blown away by how thoughtful and well put-together Noah’s statement was at around the 30 minute mark. Especially for a teenager. What a bright kid. I’m in my mid-twenties and I can barely string together a coherent sentence lmao

[@Rachel_M_]

Absolutely. I'm 48 and quite articulate, but that statement blew me away. I could never match that

[@rofsrer]

I'm 27 and I can only hope to one day become as articulate as him

[@Thelastunicornlover]

YES❤

[@omowhanre]

As a stay at home mom of 2, I chuckle so damn hard whenever I hear someone say “as a Mom of (fill in the blank),” but then say nothing related to motherhood 🤣

[@napalmnacey]

Oh! Let me try it! "As a mother of two loud and rambunctious kids, I love nothing more than letting rip on the weekend and eating an entire tray of edibles until I shit milk." I mean, I don't, but it does make the whole concept a bit funnier, you're right.

[@FallenChocoCookie]

It is funny af but at the same time, it makes me so sad. Because it shows that somehow they equate womanhood with motherhood and that's just... that's an aspect of what being a woman can entail but to reduce yourself and all your worth to bearing and raising children is so harmful, even detrimental in various ways. They're doing to themselves what countless women have tried to unravel and stop men from doing over centruies at this point. They make their motherhood their only virtue, their only reason to live, their single source of respect and acknowledgement, they burden themselves with responsibilities that should be shared with the other parent and they ultimately shackle themselves, their entire existence to a biological function that many cis women and trans women as a whole lack. Not being able to bear children or not wanting children doesn't make you less of a woman. And men have the exact same responsibility to look after their children or the children they adopt. They're their children, too. Yet somehow men don't usually reduce themselves to being fathers, even if they're responsible and accountable.

[@joleneonyoutube]

@@FallenChocoCookie It's because what they mean to say is, 'as a woman who complies with the standards enforced by White Supremacist Patriarchy, I want to express an opinion I hold that proves I comply and will enforce it against my fellow oppressed folks, on behalf of my beloved patriarchs everywhere. Please notice me, and praise me, for my efforts.'

[@omowhanre]

@@joleneonyoutube yes and no. There are POC who step in and out of whiteness as need be. As a Black Muslim woman I use respectability politics as needed when dealing with obviously racist healthcare staff, when trying to advocate for my kids’ at school or simply to piss off racist people. Similarly, white women lean on white supremacy also when convenient. What I mean is that, the phrasing “as a Mom” may not always be seeking approval or praise from the powers that be. Sometimes it’s just a way to disarm others before going in for the kill. Maybe we’re saying similar things.

[@gRinchY-op5vr]

It's just basically "think of the children!" Without actually saying "think kf the children"

[@annabelletolley8916]

love that Noah is a teenager but still dropped the most well articulated, succint, focused statement on how we should talk to and about jkr

[@dyoopiter]

i know right!! wise beyond his years😭

[@SPECTER0459]

"How we treat or talk to people like J.K. Rowling should come second..." I mean, that really sums up the whole issue, it's a very effective way to justify abuse.

[@pipianvideos]

@@SPECTER0459 yes!! the poor jk rowling who is aggressively rallying against the people who want nothing but to be left alone... how did this happen and what couldve prompted this

[@LizaFan]

@@SPECTER0459 Rowling is an old billionaire who has the privileged leisure to abstract trans lives. Most of the major GC influencers are white, middle-class, cis women.

[@SPECTER0459]

@@pipianvideos If you think death threats and harassment are what help push issues, or that they can ever be justified, then that's what you believe. Not to mention it's indicative of not believing education and open discourse are our most powerful tools for change

[@LindsayEllisVids]

shit's gonna be weird for Joanne when the aliens show up and their gametes are more or less the same size

[@aliumbritt]

Hi Lindsay! Glad you're still putting videos up on Nebula :)

[@Ella-el3lt]

lmao iconic

[@snmason]

Yassss I love your books!!

[@luciakaminski779]

Poor Joanne and her average sized gametes, how will she identify now?

[@myfavoritemonster]

Will they only have 2 differentiated roles for reproduction?

[@djvolk22]

I had to do security for a private event for the westboro baptist church... it was like... 10 years ago or so. It was great, talking to them and having them thank me for keeping them safe and shit. Right up until i said something along the lines of "cant wait to see you again when you protest the funeral of this trans soldier" with the biggest smile and they all avoided me after that.

[@S.D.323]

lol

[@WhiteWolf-lm7gj]

That's very funny, and one way to get left alone

[@NightStreets]

I love how you can see in Natalie's face how tired she is of talking about this, but the fact this video is nearly two hours long shows she also knows it is necessary to regardless. Defending your own existance is tough. Cheers to her and all trans folk

[@joeyj6808]

The fact that anyone has to defend their right to exist in the 21st Century just blows my mind. Having fought for that as a gay man in the 80s, I had hoped that trans folks would have it easier. Boy was i wrong. Hugely wrong. The insane fear and hatred is just off the charts, and being a trans ally feels so inadequate considering the garbage we all face today.

[@andrewkohler3707]

I think this was the saltiest Natalie has ever been in one of her videos, and for extremely good reason. This was a genuinely tough video to get through with all the odium and dumbassery that these TERFs, homophobes, and other rebarbative creeps so viciously spew. I can't imagine what Natalie went through preparing it - mad respect to her!! 🏳‍⚧🏳‍⚧🏳‍⚧🏳‍⚧🏳‍⚧🏳‍⚧🏳‍⚧🏳‍⚧🏳‍⚧ BTW, I always feel odd about the phrase "Mandela effect" because I wasn't at all surprised that Mandela had been alive for as long as he was, but I am genuinely shocked that Anita Bryant is still around as of this posting.

[@ryle_kittenhouse]

doing one of these videos takes weeks. Shes not tired for weeks. You dont have your eyes at half mast and hair a mess because you're tired of a topic. I worry shes not well or worse, it looks like booze or heroine (sorry just being honest). From the slowed speech, the eyes, its probably not weed, might be booze but probably not. I love her and would hate to hear that shes not doing well.

[@daviddestin1990]

Ja I am 48 minutes into this and am completely bewildered. I do my best to just mind my own bizness and let people do what they do

[@venjamin4907]

@@ryle_kittenhouse I do have to ask if you're part of any marginalized communities. It's... very much possible to be exhausted for weeks when dealing with the subject of whether or not you are allowed to exist on your own terms. Defending your very existence as a person for long lengths of time just burns you out. I've been avoiding all social media for a month now and even just watching this vid, being reminded of all the people who hate my friends and I for no other reason than _our existence is an affront to them_ has already made me want to curl back up in bed. I spent the last twenty years fighting for my rights and the rights of my friends. But it never stops, man. Could it be a substance thing? Possibly. But it could very well just be this subject.

[@vikingunicorn]

I appreciate the guy who said, "No, no. Let him stay. Let him stay." When they were going to call security on the activist who pied Anita. It feels almost like a covert, 1970s version of, "Let him cook."

[@jrrrrr5662]

After he committed assault

[@alexobery9813]

​@jrrrrr5662 a pie to the face against a bigot is not a serious assualt. The sexual harassment in the mail on the other hand was disgusting.

[@thewhitefalcon8539]

@@alexobery9813 because it's so disgusting that people wrote hate mail to Adolf Hitler, right?

[@davechongle]

@@jrrrrr5662i wouldnt deny that, but no one seemed to care even back then. she deserved it x10 imo. it looked like it hurt though. maybe give him a day or few in jail

[@yumartins7872]

​@@jrrrrr5662Im deeply sorry for u if u think a pie on the face is assault. Must be a boring life. Hope u get better!

[@eykyra]

Witnessing Natalie break apart a discourse bit by bit, getting into the gritty core of it is a whole other level of satisfying. I swear I can feel my neurons working whenever I watch a ContraPoints video.

[@dreamcatch9561]

So true. I wonder if it's heavy to do these deep dives into problematic people, though.

[@eykyra]

@@dreamcatch9561 I like when she does, because she makes a very good analysis on what makes problematic people think the way they do, and what in the way they shape their discourse make other people believe them and support their views as acceptable or valid opinions.

[@fyraltari1889]

This reads like a very sophisticated "neuron activation" meme.

[@soulmechanics7946]

Do you watch her stream? She never finishes the game.. but I love it anyways.

[@eykyra]

@@fyraltari1889 It's kinda like that 😂

[@KirstAngel]

As a bald, hairy, middle-aged trans man, I can promise you, these people do NOT want me to identify as a woman, even though I've still got most my bits.

[@seansteele6532]

That pie moment was hilariously 70's because I'm pretty sure only in the 70's can a guy show up to a press conference with a pie and be like. "Yeah I have this pie, don't question it please."

[@Owesomasaurus]

"Hmm, could he be up to no good? No its the 70s, nobody has done anything untoward with a pie so far, its inconceivable!"

[@jivemelon]

Don't forget about Bill Gates getting pied in the face in 1999!

[@incendiarypoprocks8700]

I grew up mormon, and left officially at 18. Deconstructing bigotry is a life-long, CONSTANT process. Phelps-Roper is stuck in a mindset believing that she’s flipped a binary switch from “bigot” to “ex-bigot,” but if you grew up hateful, it’s important to work the entire rest of your life to weed out the latent bigotry still clinging to your neural pathways just out of reach. If anything, being an “ex-bigot” isn’t enough - you have to become an anti-bigot and genuinely accept that you have been wrong, can be wrong, and WILL be wrong. Accepting that and being ready to grow and support marginalized groups is so incredibly important to your personal growth and impact on the world around you. Otherwise, you run the risk of implicitly or even explicitly supporting substantially more harmful movements, policies, and systemic violence - all because you’ve assumed that you’ve already “fixed” your bigotry. This is absolutely true for racists, homophobes, transphobes, misogynists, and every other bigot out there. Whether a conscious convert to hate or someone coerced or reared into it, you have a responsibility to maintain constant vigilance. You can do better and be better, but you have to work for it. Don’t let yourself backslide into casual, passive bigotry if you escaped already; it’s YOUR responsibility.

[@derman1907]

Also grew up Mormon and I left mentally at 22, but officially at 26. You so right about it being a lifelong process. There are times where I believed that my old bigotry was gone, but it would rear its ugly head in other areas. You’re completely right. Actively fighting against bigotry is the only way to keep from backsliding.

[@alvareo92]

Both of y'all making it sound like Mormonism means being in the KKK or something

[@remcycling]

@@alvareo92 yes they are both cults

[@samuelbailey2000]

I, 18, also left Mormonism officially this year (Mentally at 15). Want to add that although the process can kinda fuck me up mentally it is 100% worth deconstructing and analyzing previous attitudes I previously held. Couldn’t help but laugh at “constant vigilance” given the subject matter of the video.

[@incendiarypoprocks8700]

@@alvareo92 hey uh you may wanna look up how integral the mormon church has been to the US culture of violent racism, homophobia, and transphobia. Like, HUGELY involved in the systemic and legal side of systemic oppression, direct violence, and conversion “therapy.” Like, the history is NOT on their side. There is SO much evidence of their actions, rhetoric, and their affects on people in and out of the church. Just because the mainline membership is polite in public and in press releases does NOT mean they’re peace-love-and-dope christians.

[@maynardewm]

This was a great history lesson. I was surprised to learn just how similar what we are going through today was to back then. The same tactics, the same talking points. Now with less class and restraint.... but the same.

[@JLittleBass]

Yup! All they got is, "They're gonna infect our kids with their weirdness! I mean, I'm not saying being different is like a disease, but...but we definitely have to keep it from spreading!"

[@MichaelWilliams85]

Except none of the women back then had a schlong

[@jadetree]

yeah. I always thought the phrase "history repeats itself" oversimplified things a bit... but no, it's really like this. :/

[@marcello7781]

What's worse is how nowadays they have a huge sound box in the form of social medias and algorithms that promote and spread their well crafted hate mongering smokescreens, so you have this pathetic situation where a very popular pundit or celebrity claims to be "canceled" while their popularity keeps soaring.

[@dangerbirb4981]

Less class and restraint? They threw pies and hatchets at people. Mean tweets are a handshake by comparison.

[@dq8431]

omg she was serious about twilight

[@mintminari]

Maya's deranged rant demanding to know the origins of that genderless alien mascot had me in tears, tala is a nonbinary icon

[@amesstarline5482]

It's odd how radicals like Maya claim nonbinary and non-het icons like Tala are sexualizing children.. when these radicals try sexualizing the characters themselves. It shouldn't matter about how Tala is who they are, they're a wonderful icon, inclusive to all.

[@nahbruh1178]

Maya's rant about tala is the perfect embodiment of "i think you're mad about something else"

[@joel4284]

Sorry, I only respect cartoon characters whose conception and birth have been explored.

[@dyoopiter]

i dont know if it was intentional but tala is the filipino word for a star! it raises the question: did tala crash land on the philippines and chose their terrestrial name from the country's vernacular? if that's the case, i have no choice but to stan even harder .. we love a nonbinary icon who has cultural ties to postcolonized countries 🤩

[@angelalovell5669]

@@joel4284 Note to self - don't mention the Teletubbies at Joel's place, could be a trigger.

[@Bruna_K.]

I'm a cis lesbian. I hate this crazy online narrative that we're 'anti-trans'... I haven't met a single one lesbian like that IRL. The whole narrative about "trans people being predators" leaves a REALLY bad taste in my mouth... (That's the language h0m0phobes have been using to demonize us for decades. Insane, offensive stereotypes like these kept me from coming out for 20+ f*cking years.) The L in LGBT comes first because of the support lesbians showed to gay men and trans women during the AIDS crisis. The huge majority of lesbians have always supported and stood up for the Gs, Bs, and Ts. 🥰💖🌈

[@episkefilm8153]

interestingly, while there exists this notion that lesbians are anti-trans, the reality couldn't be further from the truth. A study was done recently, that found that among young people (I think it was 18-29, but I may be mistaken), lesbians were the most likely to support trans women (something like 96% support trans women, and 90% personally know at least one trans woman. Not completely sure what the exact numbers were, but something along those lines). It's almost like nobody asked cis lesbians before starting this narrative, and if they did they cherry-picked the minority of lesbians to speak for the majority.

[@FreeTheDonbas]

No man is a predator, if he identifies as a woman. Were you attracted to Ellen Page? If so, you've got to hand in your lesbian card, bc you're actually bi. 🥰💖🌈

[@mrnijacatzz]

you have never met a lesbian who is anti-trans? Lmao, I bet you have never met a gold star lesbian either

[@ava5030]

@@FreeTheDonbas I'm really starting to think you guys don't even think while you type this drivel out. It's getting harder and harder to understand what the fuck you guys are even trying to talking about.

[@strfxfilm1942]

@@FreeTheDonbas what?

[@elinesvendsen8046]

So... Anita was worried about how being around gay people could influence children, but she was not worried how being raised by a father who abused their mother could influence HER children? She didn't think that would lead her kids to have a problematic view of marriage, relationships, men, etc.? Yep, makes total sense.

[@prayforiraq5006]

The Steven Crowder effect

[@focusedficus]

It's always interesting who people choose to blame, when they can't bear that the misery of their loved ones is in part induced by their own choices.

[@alexandercandicedad1355]

It's very simple your see, violence against those weaker than you is good and pure and biblical, but love is evil. That's in the Bible..... somewhere...

[@poterror]

One of the core tenets of Conservatism is cognitive dissonance. If they could form coherent thought or muster an ounce of empathy, they would not, by definition, be Conservatives. They would be something else. For you see, the second a person GROWS UP, they stop being Conservative. The joke is: "Mommy, Mommy! When I grow up I want to be a Conservative!" and the Mother says "Well which is it, dear? You can't do both!"

[@joeschmidt8415]

Like most conservatives, PROJECTION

[@8LiterallyJustTheNumber8]

13:03 "This is what heterosexuals do, fellas!" *world's least passionate kiss ensues*

[@yurifairy2969]

"It was like stone kissing stone"

[@Thelastunicornlover]

SO TRUE 😂😂😂

[@berby2068]

Anita was obviously a hateful horrific bigot but she did kinda eat with that “at least it’s a fruit pie” line 😂 Love you Natalie excellent as always ❤

[@Manoomu]

I’ve watched that clip like 6 times over the years and I laugh every time 😭 Credit where it’s due, especially when the bigots we have to deal with today are so terribly unfunny.

[@Fopenplop]

actually going to gay hell because it always gets a laugh out of me

[@indigothecat]

Definitely not defending Anita in any way myself, but even I have to give credit to her for saying "No!" when they offered to call security to throw the protestor out, and then make a joke about the "fruit" pie. She didn't run away, she didn't cry, and she didn't sick the police on the protestor. Then again, when your presentation is about up-holding the bigoted status-quo, it can breed a pretty unearned sense of confidence, lol. It's right up there with managers who say that unpaid over-time builds character and is what "team players" do. 🙄

[@RKhere97]

yeah i kinda felt bad for laughing at that, misheard it as "ofcourse its a fruit pie" and that was even more hilarious

[@mkra7769]

If that had happened today she would have claimed to having had her life threatened

[@eighthwonder4065]

A 2 hour Contra video is exactly what I needed right now

[@user-wl2xl5hm7k]

JK Rowling being able to literally monopolize all these creative ideas is extremely lousy. This is one of many reasons why we must abolish intellectual property laws immediately. For the sake of _all_ of humanity. See:

[@garthinator1]

Same holy shiiiiiiiiiit

[@user-wl2xl5hm7k]

👈

[@user-wl2xl5hm7k]

I have a playlist of the best videos on (IP) intellectual property on my channel for all interested.

[@user-wl2xl5hm7k]

@@garthinator1 You interrupted my important message!😡

[@janetrobertson9199]

Thank you, Natalie, for this extraordinary and, by the end, terrifying journey into the world of Terfs. I'm 65 & I guess(?) I was a lesbian separatist in 1979 - 1980 ish?? In the sense that it was a significant punk thing to just live in a very dysfunctional, lively community of women who were completely & utterly angry at men. Times changed, and the point of being visible was to change society as best as you could. My lesbian separatist period was more about trying to understand how we were all trapped by the patriarchy. Thank you for mentioning Rita Mae Brown: If you can get your hands on her book Plain Brown Rapper: a series of essays on feminists, dykes, downard mobility etc its - it is a great marker of my emerging political thoughts. Thank you for pointing out that Lesbian terfs are a minority. 😮My eyes were opened to a broader spectrum of life in 1979 when Sxxxxy; a radical trans woman in the process of waiting for the 'op' moved into our house. She was radical in that she identified as lesbian & her Dr couldn't understand why she didnt wear high heels & dresses because in 1979, to prove to your Dr you were needing to transition , you had to present yourself in a hyper feminine way- almost drag? You were told to pack negligees for hospital. That's another bit of important history isn't it. I'm so grateful for your brilliance, your grasp of history, because all of the current hate, as you point out, has been around a long time. Cudos to your production team too, so much work & brilliant research goes into your videos. Thank you so much. 💜💜

[@cooldocmom399]

You know the production team is the firm of Natalie, Natalie, and Natalie!

[@Manoomu]

Thank you for this comment! It is so packed with cool history and you give such a great window into that time period.

[@janetrobertson9199]

@Cooldocmom I think you should register that as your production house.👌💜 you are triple gold amazing. May I ask if there is a way of supporting you with (ok, meagre)$$? Once again, thank you.

[@redcar6253]

Such a great comment 💕 thanks for sharing this with us Janet.

[@stephanieking4444]

Thank you Janet for sharing your part of history, comments like yours are gold to this historian from across the pound

[@viniciusaffonso]

There's a quote I think relates deeply with this, it's from a Brazilian educator and philosopher named Paulo Freire. "When education is not liberating, the dream of the oppressed is to be oppressors."

[@JerryCheevers]

Friere's ideas are fucking terrible and have destroyed our education system.

[@atanaZion]

Acho que isso é o sonho da maioria de qlq forma

[@mitcharendt2253]

Shit. Someone explained my mom in KZbin comments

[@viniciusaffonso]

@@mitcharendt2253 Dude, look this guy up and show it to your mom, he's really worth reading.

[@Thelastunicornlover]

That quote is so unfortunately true.

[@emilyfarfadet9131]

So well crafted. Thank you for covering Anita Bryant. The worst grift of the Republican party is the way they pretend their moral outrage is emerging from a new and genuine emergency- not just the same exact swill passionlessly reheated.

[@EgoChip]

Republicans are abhorrent with their false virtues and re-writing of history, both things they always complain the left always do. Don't get me wrong, I think Democrats are utterly demonic. But it just shows that both sides are the same thing with reversed roles. The amount of outright bigotry I see coming from both sides is unreal. We should be way beyond all this ridiculousness by now, but people are incapable of learning from history,

[@TheHunterGracchus]

It was quite a cultural moment. Mary Kay Place did a hilarious parody of Anita Bryant on "Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman."

[@priapulida]

It is a new and genuine emergency. Woke fascism is one of the biggest threats to democracy, freedom, human progress and flourishing and science in history, one of the biggest medical malpractice scandals in history and more.

[@SpiderPriestess]

Christian’s learned in Roman times to accuse their enemies of crimes against children as the Roman’s accused them of the very same ,baby eating and molesting tactics that they use to this day .

[@billystanton1522]

I don't think there's anything "well crafted" about this argument. It's deeply flawed and filled with fallacy while completely missing the point harris actually made, somehow exemplifying the exact hysteria in activism that harris is discussing

[@trickytrilobite]

The fact that one of the most concise, informed and insightful quotes here (29:38) was said by a teenager is a testament to how much self-work, social analysis and bending over backwards trans folks are required to do just to survive and make sense of our world and ourselves. I’m 21 and I feel like I’ve already gone through a lifetime’s worth of self-growth just to ensure I don’t completely fall off the edge

[@fossilfighters101]

+

[@blakebleeds]

oh you put it into words

[@kaitlyn__L]

Yep. Trauma forces you to grow up fast, and when the source of your trauma is societal, you gotta grow up even quicker… Trans teens should just be allowed to exist, not have to learn to ontologically justify themselves. It’s frustrating that what little progress has been had since I transitioned as a teen has been or is being walked back…

[@mariomario1462]

Infantalizing teenagers like it's a surprise only says more about you

[@kaitlyn__L]

@@mariomario1462 this is the opposite of that

[@thomaswilson1016]

Hello, ContraPoints. I've been following your channel for the past several years, and I will say that you and others have changed how I view trans people and your struggles, wanting no more than to live their lives as human beings with the same protections as every law-binding citizen. I hope to become a better ally in the future. I think you guys need it. Take care of yourself and never give up the fight. Thank you, Natalie Wynn, for contributing to my education and the changes I need to experience and go through. Take Care! 😀

[@FreeTheDonbas]

I guess you don't remember the days where he used to insist that he isn't transgender or a woman, but a "cross-dressing pervert" instead. He used to also acknowledge the role of male socialisation on the formation of gender identity. He used to alsi defend feminists against anti-feminist backlash. He's done a 180 on all that.

[@lordhoot1]

@@FreeTheDonbas Assange stans be less fucking insane challenge (impossible)

[@FreeTheDonbas]

@@lordhoot1 So you're right-wing on women's issues AND foreign policy then?

[@javsandarts]

​@@FreeTheDonbas weirdo

[@chiefpurrfect8389]

@@FreeTheDonbas Have you tried not being so morbidly obsessed with Natalie?

[@the_spider_king]

as a young trans man living in America, i’m terrified for the future of this country. but i can’t say a damn thing about it because if i express my genuine fear and rage and sadness, i’ll be labeled as “hysterical” “delusional” “confused” or a “woke snowflake”. we need to stop conflating having human emotions and reactions with being irrational and deranged. people have feelings. the problem is the right-wing can’t see transgenders as people.

[@manunderyourbed]

Human emotions are irrational and often deranged. Feelings are stupid!

[@RC-qf3mp]

No, the problem is that some people actually are hysterical, delusional, confused woke snowflakes, and it’s not a crime or ‘hate speech’ (not a thing in US law) to say so. A great way to say irrational things is to be highly emotional about them, although that’s not a necessary connection, just a strong tendency in human behavior. The problem isn’t “right wing” - the problem is an ideology that contradicts itself and can’t define basic concepts essential to its own ideology, ie., what is a woman? What is overlooked in this video and debate about JKR is why she’s so reviled - and she’s so reviled by the extremists b/c JKR was the most beloved media darling of the left for a generation. A feminist, philanthropist billionaire writer. She’s nowhere close to ‘right wing’. If you think this particular issue is the end-all-and-be-all of politics and the core wedge issue dividing Left and Right - well, that reveals your obsession with this issue and not reality. And yes, that would make you delusional. The fact is it’s easy to point to right wing Evangelicals (who believe all kinds of nonsense) and group JKR with them. But she’s not one of them, and everybody knows it. She, along with countless moderates and liberals, esp feminists and lesbians, have legitimate worries and rational arguments about the culture, politics and medical debates related to so-called ‘trans’ issues. THAT is why she’s so hated - she’s NOT right wing, and that means she needs to be made an example out of, so that other people on the Left know that they need to go all-in and further Left to appease the Trans woke mob, lest they be cancelled and attack the way JKR is. And unlike JKR, the little people aren’t billionaires who can survive the attack. So just shut up, fall in line… OR ELSE. That’s what’s going on here. And that’s why JKR is so threatening.

[@apersonwhomayormaynotexist9868]

@@RC-qf3mp this is honestly such a huge soup of buzzwords, nonsense, and seething idiocy that I'm honestly impressed. If you are the base of the transphobic mob, we have very little to worry about

[@jimmysp4des229]

All the thing you said about conservatives are just fear mongering, ya know, kinda like they do to you. They most definitely see you as people, just people they deeply disagree with. That's it and that's all. At the end of the day, every group can make the same type of video this person made. Just find clips of the worst people each side have to offer that supports your narrative, talk over it to show your echo chamber just how right you are, rinse and repeat. Both sides do it and it's beyond tiresome, it's not debating, it's a smear campaign, and people wonder why wer divided

[@russelljackson2818]

Stay strong, friend. We're gonna start fixing this shit and keep fighting. It's the only way anything will get better. One day you will be able to just be yourself publicly with pride and be respected, and people like the idiot who responded to you first will still be seething in their basements because no one cares about their opinions. We're gonna right this ship 💪

[@MissSHUTurMOUF]

I SCREAMED when that man said furries were elementary school kids wearing an animal costume and barking, holy crap. How far out of the loop can you possibly be?

[@ScorpionViper1001]

It truly will be the dumbest timeline if conservatives make fursecution an actual thing rather than an internet joke.

[@morrisonnolan5687]

This is no solace, but he's saying that in a lead-up to talking about the "they now have litterboxes in schools" nonsense

[@anonthe-third2367]

@@morrisonnolan5687 I honestly wish this was what furries were, just innocent kids playing pretend.

[@RMAJGaming]

ikr... i literally yelled "WHAT ABOUT US SHARK SONAS" and like if im honest we all know scaly's are thee best. like how brain dead was that guy >_(\

[@robertmarshall2502]

Yeah he should know they're Therians and also deserve their own activism. How out of the loop are you?

[@DotNetBoy101]

"This is pretty common with people who used to be religious fundamentalists. They were so certain they were right, only to realize that everything they believed about the world is wrong. So they become distrustful of any strong moral convictions, because it reminds them of their former fanaticism." This hit me hard. Thank you Natalie. You've definitely still 'got it'.

[@mojojojoplus2]

And yet Megan ends her podcast with Rowling stating her conviction that she's "doing the right thing". Oof.

[@hakura1a2b]

If someone has experienced proper gaslighting, it can be similar. It can be hard for people to learn to trust themselves again after experiences like that.

[@dakotalee6990]

The fact that now if you look up “The Witch Trials of JK Rowling Contrapoints” you’ll find this this video is such a pro-gamer move. Salute.

[@khadeejones1136]

I love this. It’s honestly genius, the narrative they were pushing misleading and harmful so she took over

[@Blueeyesthewarrior]

Queen behavior as usual.

[@notreal9214]

@@Blueeyesthewarrior i read this as queer behavior n i was a little confused but like yeah queen behavior

[@Khannea]

WASTED

[@ramywiles]

@@notreal9214 Queer queen behavior!

[@hilde_wereld]

When I was at pride, there was a woman shooting pictures of us while we walked in the parade. We smiled nicely at her, but then she took cover, hiding from us, and then proceeded to scream something along the lines of: “I practice homophobia!” She said it in dutch, so it was way more awkwardly phrased. I still think of her.

[@Faigh_as]

legend

[@bunnygears9988]

@@Faigh_as Psycho more likely. It's one thing to just be a dick and scream "I practice homophobia." But she took photos of people without their consent, Smiled when she got noticed, Then hid and screamed. Hope she's doing better. Homophobia or not. Bad mental health fucking sucks.

[@diegoortiz2404]

She said that like it was a martial art lmaooooo

[@georgeuferov1497]

​@@diegoortiz2404 "while you were busy being gay, I practiced homophobia"

[@Thelastunicornlover]

@@georgeuferov1497😂😂😂

[@SgtWicket]

Dave Rubin has got to be the saddest person I’ve ever seen, so used to his peers calling him an abomination that he is grateful to them when they do it “politely.”

[@b4rbarbar]

I think that's what we've just started calling 'pick me' behavior... Anyone that accepts their 'defective' identity and is happy to politely agree with their oppressors

[@htpkey]

​@@b4rbarbar The "pick me" attitude sadly exists in almost every marginalized group. People who are trying so hard to show "they are not like the stereotypes".

[@g0shd4rn1t]

His dead stare says it all

[@alexandrezani]

It's just so incredibly pathetic to watch this guy who presumably loves and cares for his partner and his children sit down and call someone who hates him and disparages his family a friend. Grow a fucking spine for them if not for yourself!

[@marocat4749]

Yeah, and calling ben a friend when saying tht h never woul go to his wedding, ever.

[@sparkedoutagain]

I know you said you felt you were naive for going on that podcast, but I want to let you know that I always appreciate your earnest efforts to change people's minds. Your faith in people's ability to listen isn't a flaw, although it's not always the most politically savvy for us

[@wyrdsworth]

(Reply to boost in the algorithm. Well said.)

[@artemismoonbow2475]

Not a flaw at all

[@benjaminborhart3321]

Amen.

[@indigothecat]

I'm sure as well that Natalie also felt used and that her good nature was wasted on people who already had their minds made up. She wanted so much to believe that just maybe some people could have been persuaded by the thing more liberal media and channels advocate for... civil debate and discussion. That would be awesome if it truly worked.

[@eitherorbooks]

Yeah I don't think it was naive at all. MPR is a very intelligent woman and it wasn't unreasonable to assume she would cover this topic appropriately, but Natalie's analysis of why she went astray seems spot on. I found the concluding arguments in this video to be extremely persuasive, some of her best.

[@SalRashiq]

The Mott and Bailey argument structure helps me understand better how many conservatives structure their rhetoric. I think Natalie has referred to in the past as “doing a Jordan Peterson”. I’ve adopted this phrase in my own life, but will also be looking for the Mott and Bailey when engaging in a discussion with someone

[@LimeyLassen]

With Jordan Peterson it's like nested russian dolls of motts. Just motts all the way down.

[@BevanWard]

Doing a JP. I like it. The old, spend 2 hours talking around a subject then pretend to be offended when someone asks if you believe what you have clearly stated you believe

[@carissaree]

me too!!

[@luiysia]

@@AndrewThibeault i think SSC invented the term, or at least popularized it

[@dmitriykorolevich2208]

@@luiysia I believe it appeared in the general LessWrong movement, but I also read it first on SSC

[@4dimensionalcat]

she really did switch to twilight

[@CorinaTamez-Hibbard]

correction is a he

[@Wusaruful]

@@CorinaTamez-Hibbard it´s maam

[@pss360]

"My religion says homosexuality is a sin" okay but I'm not doing your religion. This argument always boggles my mind, no one's asking you to be queer, just to not be a shithead when other people are queer

[@NIHIL_EGO]

They're genuinely egocentric in the worst way. They can't wrap their heads around the concept of others not giving a shit about their religions.

[@ladywaffle2210]

"It's your right to believe I'm evil, and it's my right to not fucking care. It's not your right to do anything about it, just like it isn't mine to do anything about you."

[@tenaciousrodent6251]

In the mind of a true dedicated bigot every single human is born as part of their specific religion. And punishing sinners is their duty. NOT punishing sinners is a sin in itself. And also: Getting into the afterlife can get seriously technical and there is NO room for error.

[@focusedficus]

Religious bigots, the epitome of narcissism. Here is a swath of people who say "I believe that there is a being somewhere out there that made all this and these are its rules, l don't have any proof, l just believe it, believing it is proof enough, it's important to my identity and it's my right to believe it" and the rest of us are like "Sure if that's important to your well-being, you do you." And then they be like, "And because we need it, a certain portion of our taxes need to be allocated to building our institutions." And the rest of us say, well, it's honestly a little weird for me, this thing you do every Sunday, but l get that everyone needs a place of community, so sure, here you go. And then they be like "And because it's important to a few of us, you need to teach it in schools" And then we're like "Okay, but then we also need to do that for other religions" And then they're like "OVER MY DEAD BODY!! GET MY GUN!!" Organized religion often doesn't just exist for itself and let the rest of us be, it so often tries to recruit. And that's why they believe any other identity group isn't out there just to exist for itself, it's out there to recruit. They believe that these other groups will behave exactly as they themselves have behaved.

[@meanberryy]

@@tenaciousrodent6251 I generally point out to them that the fact they think their literal GOD needs help in judgment and punishment sounds like blasphemy. Shuts most people up.

[@eastgermanhattrick3330]

So I am professor in Baltimore. One of my students brought up “The Orange Lady” referencing this video. I knew immediately that this was what he was talking about. So you were promoted in my class. Thank you for your work.

[@ashley-fk6dp]

which uni u teach at is your name geoff per chance

[@eastgermanhattrick3330]

@@ashley-fk6dp Towson and no I am not

[@ashley-fk6dp]

@@eastgermanhattrick3330 im trippin i used to know a proffesor named geoff as a lad who taught history in towson university he allso worked at borders in towson town center he wa s married to a fillipina..do u know the geezeer..

[@ashley-fk6dp]

@@CherrieBoard u answering me eddy

[@radschele1815]

wholly different to your comment, but your name confuses me somehow. I'm (East) German and I'm curious about your name. Would you enlighten me?

[@fonteneausimon8898]

0:10 : Chapter 1 : Anita 10:57 : Chapter 2 : The Witch Trials of Anita Bryant 20:40 : Chapter 3 : The Witch Trials of JK Rowling 35:22 : Chapter 4 : JoRo's Transphobia 50:11 : Chapter 5 : Debate 1:11:25 : Chapter 6 : Illiberal Methods 1:26:28 : Chapter 7 : Why is JK Rowling like this?

[@illdie314]

ty

[@francinegee9997]

Yes, thank you very much for this.

[@AvgJane19]

❤

[@ajagoat]

Much appreciated!

[@MarchOfMaedhros]

Thanks!

[@VagusDoc]

“Because that’s the only way to get anything done in this country, you have to be super annoying about it. They give you no choice.” -Contrapoints America boiled down to one quote.

[@franklong6269]

Actually, LGBT riots are not annoying, they are violent and dangerous. But then, you obviously are ignorant or in denial of that factual reality.

[@VagusDoc]

@@franklong6269 - Oh man that was such a good one.

[@franklong6269]

@@VagusDoc Yes it was, wasn't it? And yet you are still ignorant and living your life in denial of reality. That is quite common for LGBT cult members who believe that a man can become a woman [POOF!] by magically wishing it to be true. Tell me, do you "wish upon a star" like in Pinocchio?

[@the_last_ballad]

​@@franklong6269 riots of any kind are violent, thats why they are called riots. Like, its not saying much to call a form of protest that is defined by violence as being violent. But theres a reason why theres a saying: "A riot is the voice of the unheard" - Martin Luther King Jr. People pushed to the extremes will exist in the extreme. Who would've thought? And thus Contrapoints quote, which builds on MLK's quite nicely.

[@derp195]

To say that someone refusing to debate their human rights is “authoritarianism” is absolutely insane.

[@FreyaEinde]

It’s proof that that much money and influence rots the brain completely, like the glass castle that woman haunts is impossible to describe.

[@Gimlinti]

I think the problem with refusing to debate is, unfortunately, that these debates will continue with or without the refuser's input. People come into these arguments for a variety of reasons, and having an overly pessimistic view of these motivations and refusing to participate will only discourage fence sitters from your cause. Its not authoritarian to not take part in a debate, but it is authoritarian to tell someone they have to completely agree with your viewpoint, despite any unaddressed misgivings they have, because its your right. I think a lot of jk rowlings views are misguided and odd, but some things she has mentioned, specifically detransitioners, are worth more investigation and shouldn't be steam rolled by the sensitive nature of the debate.

[@kietay6505]

BASED. Never debate it, simply allow it to be voted away. Sigma move (brain worms).

[@botanicalitus4194]

Ben Shapiro would refuse to debate his own reIigion, yet he isnt called authoritarian by the same peopIe who caII trans ppI authoritarian for not wanting to debate whether they should be iIIegaI

[@heathersmith4042]

​@@Gimlinti the things jkr has mentioned, like detransitioners, aren't some amazing never before heard of concept that she gave voice to. they're the exact same tired points that TERFs have been repeating and attacking trans people with for decades. they HAVE been investigated, and none of the claims that TERFs make ever hold up. there is no epidemic of trans people (or cis men) attacking women in bathrooms. there is no systemic plot or mismanagement that leads to the existence of the (very, very few) detransitioners. it's all just hate and conspiracy theories used to justify taking civil rights away from trans people, which many people have pointed out to JKR, yet she doesn't listen because she doesn't want to hear it. and that is authoritarian, whether you like it or not. refusing to accept someone's identity and demanding the government get involved to stop them from living in their own skin- because that IS what people like JKR demand- is authoritarian. all trans people are asking for is to be left alone.

[@hartthorn]

Having trouble recalling the exact quote, but I remember the line being close to "The public sees all previous civil rights movements as being just and necessary because now we agree with them NOW, but all current/future civil rights movements as being extremist because they disrupt our own status quo."

[@TheNoobler]

And the cycle repeats. Ugh, THIS is why we always need to learn and remember out history, because it really does repeat itself, as they say. How truly embarrassing...

[@blobertasbleach4545]

Where is it from? I would love to know the name of the book/video/source to check it out.

[@A.Severan]

I’m happy that Contrapoints is back right when the world seems to be going to shit regarding trans issues. The anti-trans hysteria is also building up as a reactionary movement targeting gay rights and gender equality. We need more sane voices.

[@Gabriel-zr2wx]

omg yes!

[@synchronium24]

The biggest threat to trans activism is trans activists. They are alienating even their natural liberal allies by insisting that gender identity trumps biological sex in every possible scenario.

[@gaybuzzlightyear1294]

“…the world is going to shit regarding trans issues” i.e. people are finally starting to wake up, and aren’t putting up with your insane BS anymore

[@richarddavis8863]

>”kill your shitty child” >sane voices lol

[@MalkuthSephira]

​@Don't Read My Profile Picture too late, now i'm gonna be trans in seven days, or i would if i wasn't already

[@sal_alembroke]

this was extremely insightful as an NB person of color! reminds me of the colonial impact on LGBT rights in Hong Kong (and Asia as a whole...), and how western countries today wonder 'how come they still have homophobic legislation?' like they weren't the ones who imposed it lol. this isn't to say the pre-colonial age was 100% queer-friendly, but several aspects like the crossdressing in Cantonese Opera, genderless Taoist figures, and even our spoken language has no gendered pronouns (but the written one was revised to have that throughout the colonial period). In the 90s we had a rise in queer media and some of the most beloved celebrities (to this day) were queer / had queer gender presentation - but the cultural and religious influence maintains the LGBT stigma :(

[@ErinJeanette]

Nb person of color 😂 get a grip

[@mrmoment6061]

​@@ErinJeanetteyou're just rude

[@MoonShadowWolfe]

Holy shit. And so long after Natalie promised that, for her own mental health, she would not wade into transphobia this deeply again. I suppose humanity as a whole wouldn't allow her to draw that line. A survey of laws currently being proposed is a deep dive into transphobia.

[@bug688]

Can’t wait for 2056 for the next video Natalie uploads!

[@bug688]

Oops did not mean to reply here but yeah it’s pretty sad how Natalie has to do this. It just feels like the world has pivoted so suddenly on trans acceptance.

[@lexy304]

@@bug688 The moment I think I'm allowed to exist, there come the right-wingers out of the woodwork, to remind me that they'll murder me. Whoops.

[@Cesaryeyo]

I also doubt Jessie Gender will actually stop talking bout JK forever. Sadly, these are things that directly concern and threaten them.

[@chrischidiac4137]

I mean you can definitely tell the difference in her tone between her first JK Rowling video and this one. She was a lot more sarcastic and witty in that one (imo it's the best video essay I have ever seen on this topic), whereas this one she's a lot more direct and serious about these issues. Not sure if anyone else noticed this difference.

[@irenasvetlovska4337]

Trans woman here. I’ve seen all your vids, including the previous JK one, but this vid really opened my eyes about how explicitly transphobic she is being. Until now, I’d seen her as somebody with their own issues who blundered unawares into the area, got monstered by the unreasonable end of activism, and went down the rabbit hole through lashing back. The section where you set out exactly what she is saying these days opened my eyes. I’m old enough to remember Anita Bryant and Janice Raymond and that old quote about those who forget history being condemned to repeat it springs to mind. Excellent, necessary work. Thank you.

[@andie1508]

Where's the part where she sets out exactly what JKR is saying these days? I did finish the video but missed that.

[@Irokesengranate]

@@andie1508 There's a whole chapter of the video dedicated to it, but you can go to around the 44 minute mark to get specific examples.

[@andie1508]

@@Irokesengranate thank you!

[@k.lambda4948]

i just need to say that it was the arguments of dianic lesbians and lesbian separatists that convinced me to try and hang on for the last forty-odd years. what a waste of time that has been. reproductive essentialism is obvious. gender essentialism is obviously false. bleah

[@rhymerlegend2717]

Oh no she states biological reality how horrible!

Anita Bryant saying "I love gay people" is like the textbook example of Orwellian doublespeak

[@Binerexis]

It's standard rhetoric for conservative Christians

[@TheNightWatcher1385]

No, it’s because Christians believe that while everyone should be loved, not everything they do should be loved. Christians are taught to rebuke unrepentant sin, not because of hatred for the sinner but out of a desire to warn the sinner of the danger they believe said sinner’s soul is in.

[@anonymous-zs9rn]

The problem starts with viewing the bible, a book that explicitly supports violence and shunning, and was written by humans about 2000 years ago, as a guide to how one should love their neighbor today. The problem continues when one treats a person's life, love, marriage and family as simply "something they did that was wrong", as if an integral part of a person life is no different than a kid cheating on a test when she was in middle school - we can ignore it, forget it, and move on. Treating a person's family like that doesn't really work. "It is really hard to argue with someone who thinks that an integral part of your identity is just an evil delusion", as Bryant's granddaughter put it. Our relationships are not a mistake that we can forget, nor are they a choice made out of ignorance, or just a phase that's going to pass - and to treat a person's marriage or relationship(s) like that is patronising and annoying at best, hateful and contradictory at worst. To teat others like that in the name of your personal religious beliefs is not love, it's putting your religious feelings above others' freedom and well being. To call this kind of treatment "love", is to insult the idea and action of love.

[@chrissyweaver3475]

I wonder if she would say the same about her granddaughter.

[@anonymous-zs9rn]

@@chrissyweaver3475 she probably would. "I lOvE yoU i JuST DiSAgreE yoUr lifEStYle" meanwhile the "lifestyle" is her marriage, her wife and the family they've built together

[@metagnat]

I have come back to this video repeatedly just to hear Natalie say "I've just about McFuckin had it" No idea why I find it delightful and compelling, but I do.

[@RichardDuncan-ju1xk]

you're a sad bar steward

[@SicklySweetBeast]

You just need to get outside more I promise there’s is a lot more delightful things in the world when you turn the screen off

[@marksinger2360]

I came out as a high school junior in Tulsa, Oklahoma in 1976; the reason was Anita Bryant. Thanks, Anita! (And, yeah, I subsequently was physically attacked at school by a student while a teacher looked on and did nothing, and when I reported it, I was told that I would be suspended if it happened again. Is anyone surprised?)

[@sailorjabs]

That's awful. It's really sad how we think that we have evolved in lgbtqia issues, but history seems to repeat itself in the USA. I'm sending love your way :(❤️

[@WrenderUntoTheDM]

@@sailorjabs Those who live under politicians who intentionally underfund and restrict education on historical matters are doomed to continue to be vulnerable to the same manipulation tactics that have always been used to oppress and enact violence against minorities.

[@Iamhere829]

I'm sorry that happened to you....i hope you're safe and healthy and doing better...❤❤

[@ichabod7374]

Tulsan here. The fact that your story reminded me of the tactics of silencing LGBTQ+ voices employed in Tulsa high schools today reminds me that we are still in dire need of progress here.

[@larsfinlay7325]

hopefully you got the hell out of Oklahoma, god speed.

[@Turbo_Waitress]

When the world needed her most, she appeared.

[@baconsarny-geddon8298]

Yeah, thank god for J.K Rowling, huh? Finally, a woman unafraid of entitled white men like Hontra and PhilosophyChoob, trying to bully her into silence, and colonise womanhood!! Isn't it CRAZY how deeply these guys HATE women who stand up for themselves?!?

[@MaximusOrthodox]

He

[@Labyrinthfox]

@@MaximusOrthodox ur gross

[@cowgirltheworld]

​​@@MaximusOrthodox mods get his ass banned

[@MaximusOrthodox]

@@VioletJewel1729 What?

[@SonofaSorceress]

She has a partner, y'all! And she sounds like a wonderful woman (from a less than 5 second clip)!! Let us wish for all the support and happiness they deserve, and then let us send them even more!!!

[@Crowbars2]

1:42:25 - I don't understand how someone could keep pretending that they're hating on trans people for "the good of our children" or "the good of society", when their rhetoric is so immensely hate-filled like Posey Parker's is. How can you say you're doing any kind of good when you're spouting such hatred? Does she have no self-awareness whatsoever?

[@GarbageMemesTBH]

“In 1909 a suffragette attacked Winston Churchill with a horse whip - queen shit honestly” I LOST IT 💀

[@bananabasket]

Rewound is 4 times 😂

[@ItIsTheLordWhoKeepsme]

Did she go to jail?

[@MaxOakland]

@@ItIsTheLordWhoKeepsme I don't know but it looks like her name was listed and we could research it

[@ItIsTheLordWhoKeepsme]

@@MaxOakland I hope she did. The intent was probably good but the action was violent against a fellow human being and therefore wrong. It's like a killing people to reduce climate change.

[@131alexa]

​@@ItIsTheLordWhoKeepsme Yes. The suffragette (Theresa Garnett) was charged with disturbing the peace and sentenced to 1 month in prison.

[@anniecoxdraws]

Oh my god the self congratulatory “we’re having the conversation” piece hit so hard. I’d consider myself straight-passing and back when I was a teacher, a colleague of mine expressed discomfort that another school was having “acceptance week” and thought it should be instead called “tolerance week” since she didn’t want to have to “accept the lifestyle.” 🙄🙄🙄 When asked to put together a presentation on anti-bullying, I thought I was being SUPER tame, but got parents mad by even acknowledging that racism and homophobia were bullying factors. SO happy that I was able to make my classroom a safe space (without even coming out to my students because I didn’t want middle schoolers knowing about my personal life lol), but yeah…fuck all that lol

[@Jasper_the_Cat]

Your story reminds me of the point Natalie made about asking a person if they could describe any behavior which would actually fit their definition of racism or homophobia, because there are some people who will just flat out deny the existence of either. Sad but true. Interestingly, that type of person often seems to have little problem using the words 'reverse racism' to describe certain situations, in which case it it strikes me as someone who's operating in bad faith.

[@mrbanks456]

So because you made parents mad you're gonna give up on having hard conversations?

[@Thobeian]

@@mrbanks456They didn’t say they changed it, just that it received pushback from parents who didn’t even want to acknowledge that racism and homophobia were considered bullying.

[@novagray4143]

​@Mr. Banks they can likely be fired for coming out. There's no employment protection for Sexuality in multiple states

[@ho-sette]

@@mrbanks456 can you stop being annoying in these replies dawg

[@mirithilrose54]

It's so telling that they only focus on trans people but never go on massive tirades against the likes of Andrew Tate, who are actually grooming young men into believing women are responsible for their own r*pe. This really shows what they stand for.

[@amdanico]

Such a good point.

[@FaithOriginalisme]

That's because they don't think they can take on Andrew Tate. They have to attack a group they perceive as weaker. Probably.

[@tula1433]

Modern day women will video tape and entire gym without consent and then when some innocent man glances over at the camera she will paint herself as the victim of sexism and misogyny, while doing squats in booty shorts for the WHOLE INTERNET to see on her camera. Make it make sense. Women like that need to go to their own damn gyms but they won’t because they LOVE the attention, the victimization card and the clicks and follows and views online.

[@rituparikh2255]

I mean, radical feminists do. You just block and report to not see it

[@MiklRngr]

You are not paying attention. A Tate is getting pushback and by his generation and by other generations. This includes a lot of men who disagree with him. The difference is that with the exception (to my knowledge) other than Blair White, there is no internal pushback against trans-excesses.

[@DuckyTheFly]

After watching the new Twilight video the last line is so much more ICONIC. lol it's like "and then she did" periodt.

[@abigailbailey9633]

"large gamete producer"... as a cis perimenopausal woman, I did a spit-take at that. Like am I about to stop being a woman in the next couple of years? What's next? Always hated the idea of womanhood being defined by reproductive organs. What a reductive, misogynist way to define it.

[@Tesrob]

That’s the thing with every definition of women there are women who don’t fit.

[@airplanes_aren.t_real]

Wait so does that mean that you only have like a 30-40 year window of being a woman and then you're like...non-binary? Womenless? Women-? To these people

[@biancagalaxy1338]

We only produce large gametes in the womb…

[@theperson8539]

@@Tesrob That’s the most consistent aspect of any TERF, most of what they say and do is thoughtless and at the expense of others, particularly those they cannot relate with.

[@ladywaffle2210]

I once argued that reducing womanhood to genitalia was insulting. Someone argued back that it wasn't reductive, but freeing. I will reiterate. They argued that *reducing* womanhood to nothing but genitalia *wasn't reductive.*

[@Jane_8319]

46:00 I'm a trans woman. I'm a trans woman who identifies as a lesbian and am well aware that most cis lesbians aren't transphobic. But when I actually heard the statistics of how cis lesbians are the most accepting group of all cis people for us trans folks, I nearly cried. I didn't know that. Thank you, so much. Not even for the video - which itself is extremely good - but just that detail. Thank you.

[@purplewitchtarotanddivinat5680]

A male can’t be a lesbian. I’m a queer woman, and many of us would love cis only spaces. A group of women tolerating you and placating your identity out of fear that something worse may happen to you if you don’t have a safe space doesn’t mean they accept your reality. It just means they’re the group most willing to be accommodating. It’s done out of feelings of guilt and obligation.

[@Jane_8319]

@@purplewitchtarotanddivinat5680 You’re right, a male can’t be a lesbian. Good thing I’m a woman. I suggest you either watch the video and learn to understand trans rights, or fuck off, transphobe.

[@babyblue3717]

As a cis lesbian, please know we love you and you ARE one of us. Do not let ANYONE tell you otherwise. You are human, you are beautiful, you are a lesbian. And we love ya.

[@k.rahimi4969]

Why would cry to learn about such a statistic?

[@purplewitchtarotanddivinat5680]

@@babyblue3717 Males aren’t lesbians lol. We just pretend like they are to be nice.

[@SaaryLilla]

On gender neutral characters disrupting chindren's development: let me introduce you to the classic Hungarian puppet show, Raisin and Tade. It is about a piglet and a guinea pig who are adopted and raised by an elf, living inside a pumpkin house. Hungarian has no gendered pronouns and this is a puppet show for children, so you cannot be sure about anyone anyone's gender. My sister and I grew up on these and apparently we assigned different genders to certain characters - for instance she always thought of Raisin as female, and I, as male. The piglet and guinea pig are voiced by women, possibly because they are portraying children; the elf, the parent character, is voiced by a man. Despite that, my mom told me that she always thought of the elf as female, whereas my sister and I thought that they were male. The guinea pig is pink and white, has a high-pitched feminine voice - and a male name. The whole thing was produced from 1969-1973. As far as I know, nobody ever got hung up on the characters' genders. As a kid I understood that these are a parent and their children. The concept of family made sense to me without anyone having to be a specific gender, or without there needing to be two parents.The story was mostly about resolving sibling rivalry and little everyday conflicts. Genders were just not that important.

[@thexalon]

I can say from experience that really really young kids aren't very gendered in their outlook. The gender of babies is "baby" unless an adult imposes a gender role on them. Same for toddlers. Even by age 8 or 9, they're not very strongly gendered, and when given the chance to do something other than what is stereotypical for their assigned gender, they have no hesitation about playing around as another gender.

[@miniroundaboutinbrum7915]

I don’t remember being a young child and caring much about the gender of characters in cartoons my favs were always the cute animals regardless of gender

[@RomansR2]

As kids my sibling and I never knew the gender of Tweety Bird or Jerry the mouse, once again because the cartoons were silent and it wasn't important to the story. Yet we have people nowadays behaving like spoilt children if a fictional character doesn't have an obvious gender. Yet they would be the same people crying child abuse if actual sexual characteristics (which they say are the only way to determine a gender) were also in any way indicated in media for children. So which do you want, conservatives???

[@qc5079]

I feel like it's very easy for people who aren't a minority to say you should be nice to bigots, because bigots are nice to them. They're not the ones facing the consequences of bigotry.

[@ambientjohnny]

If male "trans women" may face problems entering the sex-appropriate bathroom for them, the male bathroom, then that is a direct consequence of their actions, of their desire to "present female" ("actions have consequences" goes both ways, something that seems lost on the majority of people) - as well as a problem with male attitudes - neither of those two things are women's problems to sort out. Your assertion that females need to "fix" the issue with male on male violence, male sexism etc., is pure misogyny. "We have to do away with female-only spaces because some males are mean to other males if we don't" - Where in that is there ANY accountability or responsibility for males and their attitudes and behaviours??? Spaces are segregated by sex, not this neo-religious claim of "gender identity" - and it's about far more than bathrooms - you lot always just harp on and on about the least consequential one. It's sports, hospital wards, hospital/security/police same-sex examination rights, changing rooms, abuse shelters, prisons, spas, saunas, rape crisis shelters, homeless facilities, education/schools, leisure centres and public pools, lesbian services, menstruation services, dating spaces/apps, and to a lesser extent in some circumstances; celebrations, culture events, religious spaces/events - so this attempt to make it seem like it's just about people overreacting due to a bathroom issue is an egregious lie. Mental problems are NOT to be treated with physical alterations to the body - it is LAUGHABLE that all you "activists" and "allies" act as if such a fundamental misunderstanding of what constitutes proper psychological help would be some sort of standard of care - you don't actually know anything, or understand anything, but merely parrot what you've heard which resonates with you at an emotional level. No one can be "born in the wrong body", our brains ARE our body just as much as any other part of it. We are the sex we are, regardless of what our personal relationship is with the sexist stereotypes in society. "Trans" ideology, is regressive and sexist, as there is no "correct way" of being a boy or girl, man or woman, all those terms do is indicate sex and stage of maturity - decoupling sex and gender and trying to make gender into this ludicrous concoction of personality and sexist stereotypes is beyond regressive - it actively harms people who buy into it - the idea that there is something wrong with a kid's body that needs to be chemically altered because they believe living up to sexist stereotypes is some real measure of whether they are a boy or a girl (and man or woman for adults obviously), is insanity. I have asked hundreds of "activists" and "allies" to explain what they are measuring themselves against to determine that they have a need to transition - NOT ONE person has been able to articulate what that is - not one person is able to distance themselves sufficiently to realise that THEY are the ones with a regressively sexist idea of what it means to be a boy/girl or man/woman and that that is the issue causing all the problems - their own misunderstanding and severely limited perspective/sexist misunderstanding of what sexist stereotypes/"gender norms" actually entail - they are not rules, they are not real boundaries, they are regressive ideas and generalisations - no one needs to live up to any such utter nonsense or feel comfortable with those stereotypes to be a boy/girl/man/woman - all those terms represent, and all they should represent, is sex and stage of maturity - by creating this whole "gender identity" nonsense, THAT IS WHAT CAUSES ALL THE DISTRESS, THIS FABRICATION OF A FRAMEWORK WHICH DISTORTS REALITY. No one - NO ONE - in the movement has been able to explain or articulate what this supposed "womanly essence" or "manly essence" is that they feel/know/need to transition in order to represent etc. actually is - yet you all actively believe in it and push for it to be accepted. That is ludicrous.

[@dyingforeddiemunson]

@@ambientjohnny i love how close you get to figuring it out and yet remains so far. from your own words, "THAT IS WHAT CAUSES ALL THE DISTRESS, THIS FABRICATION OF A FRAMEWORK WHICH DISTORTS REALITY.", and you're correct. this "fabrication of a framework" is called gender, which everyone is subject to from birth purely because of the existence of some reproductive organs. if it was us trans people who have these "regressively sexist ideas of what it means to be a boy/girl", then why is it that we are policed so harshly when we deviate from the sex we're assigned at birth? if all that constitutes is just my biology, it shouldn't have an effect on the way i dress, or the way i'm perceived by others: at the end of the day, i should be able to be whoever i want. unfortunately, i can only do in the space created for me by other trans people and not in wider society like you claim we can. the way we express gender identity has material consequences, and again, if it deviates from the way we're expected to be because of the frameworks built around sex assigned at birth, the consequences can be pretty deadly for a lot of people. have you ever seen how harshly young boys who express even the mildest desire to engage in what we have collectively decided constitutes femininity are punished? trans people haven't conjured up these frameworks out of nowhere: they already exist. all we, and especially trans women, are literally trying to do is navigate them the best way we can so as to not be targeted and harassed, because at the end of the day, the literal function of existing gender frameworks IS policing our so-called transgressions.

[@yolandaponkers1581]

That is exactly right, and it’s wild how cishet people just so rarely empathize. Like, how hard is it to get why I’m emotional when people treat me badly over who I am?!

[@Jane-oz7pp]

Reminder that Ursula K Le Guin was onto her general nastiness as early as 2004. Nobody listened to the true queen of fantasy, and yet she was right all along.

[@eduardomarques91]

2004? I think it was earlier. The left hand of darkness was about gender fluid aliens, woke af

[@strega0]

Hmmmm interesting... could you elaborate more?

[@someonerandom8552]

Indeed I am very sorry for not heeding her sooner. I suppose I can blame being too young at the time to really properly understand what was really going on lol But still

[@amw6846]

​@@eduardomarques91 I think 2004 was when Le Guin was directly asked about JKRs work. This wasn't just that Le Guin was awesome, because she had a solid history of being awesome. Here we go...in a February 9 2004 interview with Le Guin published by The Guardian: Q: Nicholas Lezard has written ‘Rowling can type, but Le Guin can write.’ What do you make of this comment in the light of the phenomenal success of the Potter books? I’d like to hear your opinion of JK Rowling’s writing style UKL: I have no great opinion of it. When so many adult critics were carrying on about the “incredible originality” of the first Harry Potter book, I read it to find out what the fuss was about, and remained somewhat puzzled; it seemed a lively kid’s fantasy crossed with a “school novel”, good fare for its age group, but stylistically ordinary, imaginatively derivative, and ethically rather mean-spirited.

[@Cesaryeyo]

Although not the only great female writer of the early 2000s who did. Another one of the better known fantasy writers said that if Draco and Harry didn't end up together then JK was homophobic. She recorded this beauthful insight in her magnum opus My Immortal

[@MsFeyCreature]

"No one has paid as dearly as Anita Bryant for taking a stand on something she believes in." Several centuries of political assassination targets have entered the chat. Edit: Kyle Richardson in the comments below also made this point before I did, to be fair.

[@botanicalitus4194]

MLK is just like: 👁️ 👄 👁️

[@hannahb2306]

Right? And beyond that…. Being willing to risk yourself to stand up for your beliefs (which Bryant really wasn’t doing in the same way that people who stand for legitimate causes do) isn’t actually noble when those beliefs are both wrong *and* founded on harming others. Like, we don’t applaud the man who killed Martin Luther King Jr. for “standing up for his beliefs.” Genuinely-held beliefs can still be stupid and harmful.

[@dfgdfg_]

Alexei Navalny would like a word

[@Melvito2]

Lolita Lebrón was jailed for wanting the US stop colonizing our country.

[@saraa.4295]

​@@hannahb2306 i don't love the sword for it's sharpness, i love only that which they defend...(faramir, lor) I think that pretty much sums this up: conviction, courage, dedication and even the ability to articulate yourself itself are morally neutral. The morality comes an which issue you lend those strengths to.

[@sirmoco]

My favourite part about this video is your "are we really still talking about this" attitude throughout the entire thing. I connect to this on so many levels.

[@mansikkapoika]

Fr! It really gets exhausting having my explain my existence to every single homophobe and transphobe out there. I just want to live in peace and do my own thing. :,,) ♡

[@jaeldi]

Amen. I don't inhabit twitter or facebook and I keep my reddit very clean of 'noisy' topics, Just cat pictures, Minecraft, and muscles please. So I've been really out of the loop on this stuff. Learning that JKR has gotten worse since Natalie's 1st video on the subject made me sad for all the kids that grew up with Harry Potter. I feel like a LOT of the mental gymnastics happening in the 'defense of JKR' is because it is so HARD for people to have their childhood memories of her stories ruined by her. Definately got that vibe from the ex-cult lady. I'm a child of the 70's. I can't imagine if like in the 1990's it was revealed that George Lucas was pedo/Harvey Weinstein/Evangelistic Nutball/some other horrible equivalent. And then he doubled down on the catastrophe. I don't know how I would cope. I think that's a huge part of the whirlpool for a lot of people. They are just swimming as hard as they can against a current that will ruin a joy from their childhood. It really is a shame. While this video was another great logical evidence based dissection of the phenomenon, I hope Natalie finds something more...uplifting?...self-sustaining?....to spend some time on. Like give me another Opulence! I may go watch Opulence again as a palette cleanse to get that JKR after-taste out of my brain. Side note: Parker Posey? never heard of her and ... my! what an unfortunate name! (lol tee hee!) Posey/Poser. Please imagine these last few sentences being read aloud by John Oliver. Good Day! And Again I say Good Day!

[@molli666]

I mean so long as trans people with millions of followers are going around saying things like “some trans women don’t experience male puberty” ….as if there is another form of puberty a male could experience…then yeah, we are still talking about it. Female puberty is not taking drugs to stunt your already developed sex organs from growing.

[@noiousadonis]

@@molli666 which trans people with millions of followers ? just wondering

[@molli666]

@@noiousadonis 1:10:39 of this video

[@tuney7319]

I had a conversation with my therapist about something similar, i was asking her why i spend too much time wondering why bad people do the things they do, why do serial killers kill people, why do bullies bully, stuff like that. She then told me a really wonderful analogy “the zebra never runs back to the lion to talk to it, it simply runs” meaning that there’s no point to trying to convince the people who are actively trying to hurt you to not hurt you. We aren’t human engineers, we aren’t responsible for how other people think or believe, if someone is bullying you, trying to talk to them will not only fail but will actively hurt you in the process, sure they might have their reasons, they might be troubled, but they’re not your responsibility. Bigots do not need convincing, they don’t need to be talked to, no matter how possible it is, oppressed people have absolutely no responsibility to convince them, it’s everyone’s responsibility to ensure human rights are protected and that includes silencing bigots.

[@rhythmandblues_alibi]

Don't take the bait, friend 💜

[@deabielamon]

@@Clipzilla42 In some cases I consider that yes, because, they should be allowed., since if the problem is the physical structure of the participant or the testosterone that it affects, then other people born and identified as women should also be banned. Asking why they should not be allowed is strange since the question itself is posed in an unfair field as if all participants before the question had the same statistics as if we were in a kind of video game where this is regulated millimetrically and is It is only when trans people come into question that it is suddenly unfair. Differences between races exist in the same way, for that reason alone you would leave black people who have a genetic preposition to a type of physical structure possibly more beneficial to run outside of the race because that would make it unfair for white / Asian / people! Mexican/ etc...! If you want to open this type of debate, open it completely with data since asking a question like that and expecting that the other person has to be a Buddha to give you the answers about the truth about biology and morality is expecting too much. I am not a teacher but I hope I have given this answer as best as possible and have changed your mind as if that were possible through a KZbin comment, now I fade away in peace.

[@gamernerd299]

That leads to Othering and is probably what Anita did. Don't run away from opposition. Your idea of silencing bigots depends on who gets to decide what a bigot is. Very problematic imo.

[@tuney7319]

@@gamernerd299 no one is asking for a grand order that decides who is or isn’t bigoted? How do you get that from my comment?

[@tuney7319]

@@Clipzilla42 genuinely wondering how i thought that was relevant, or are you trying to ragebait, lol.

[@aspektx]

"We can disagree and still love each other unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression and denial of my humanity and right to exist." James Baldwin

[@blueizumi]

Dave Rubin meanwhile: “I will continue to be your biggest cheerleader even as you call me a child kidnapper who is a danger to mothers and the reason for the Conservative Party’s downfall because I’m a gay father. Please, keep picking me, I beg you!”

[@Tijggie82]

James Baldwin is quite amazing 🙂

[@Douglemagne]

Yeah, that's one of the dumber myths perpetuated by the queer wing of the Woke cult. You're denying my existence by telling me I'm wrong when I deny yours! Herp derp.

[@Himana5189]

Listening to Republicans talk about saving and protecting children always makes me livid. AS AN OPENLY GAY MAN, I've worked in education and social work, and Republicans in most states cut those programs to the bone all the time. Don't use children to vilify LGBT people and then turn and tell a starving, abused, or neglected child that they're on their own because big business really needed the tax break this year.

[@grimmsfairytales2224]

Or that Republicans are ignoring and sometimes actively against fixing the age of consent and child marriage in almost every state. Or does protecting the children not matter when a middle age white man can marry at 14 year old for religious reasons.

[@chad8767]

It's NEVER about protecting children, just like their anti-abortion policies has never been about being pro life. They want control over others.

[@eric2500]

What I do not understand is why they thought we would not protect the children from our communities -- who have every right to grow up feeling and being cared for and offered interesting and challenging ideas to think about. Including some from children's authors - even that one.

[@DevilOfRoses]

They have literally opened up child labor laws in Iowa, and never mind their voting record on child marriage, saving the children is far from their real todo list.

[@dudeman5303]

​​@@chad8767the only children that conservatives care about are the ones that don't exist and/or can't speak for themselves.

[@GenWivern2]

Thank you Natalie ... it's really heartening to hear from you. I'm British, and it's excruciating to have to admit that my country has become a crucible for transphobic bigotry.

[@ricardot-sg2kp]

No is hating a mental illness grow up.

[@A.S._Trunks]

Things aren't really much better here in the States.

[@OpalLeigh]

Tbf, the entire world is a transphobic mess ❤ don’t feel any responsibility because you’re British, you aren’t her.

[@aWildJellieAppeared]

Same, I’m genuinely very worried for my trans and non binary friends

[@MaxOakland]

What do you think you can do about it?

[@r.b.7577]

as a lesbian i HATE the whole "lesbians are afraid of trans women" or the idea trans women are forcing lesbians to sleep with them. ive had friends who are trans women and they are the sweetest, most gentle people ive known. some lesbians are comfortable being with trans women and some arent, but there isnt any tension between the two communities as far as i can see

[@TheYellowWindow]

name something more transphobic than sex-based romantic discrimination. lesbians are literally the worst when it comes to biological essentialism.

[@Keshadorable]

It's true that Natalie makes a lot of good points in this video, but splicing in the Tati Westbrook clips? That's art.

[@0meAcat1]

Back here again for and you did it on my Birthday ~ ah, the artistry

[@FreeTheDonbas]

The only way Contrapoints feels comfortable doing any type of debating, is when he gets to represent both sides. He knows he'd lose otherwise. Self-ID is indisputably unnecessary & harmful.

[@rtpntportugal]

@@FreeTheDonbas or maybe because she doesn't live in an echochamber, and can understand the reasoning of both sides of different political issues?

[@sealogic4552]

@@rtpntportugalignore this person. They’ve left almost a thousand comments on this video. They’re not here for a reasonable discussion, they’re here to pick fights with people.

[@FreeTheDonbas]

@@rtpntportugal He lost the debate to Blaire White, but then he kept doing video after video, re-enacting the debate over & over. His new obsession seems to be JKR.

[@astridtheterrible]

The posie parker stuff was genuinely so upsetting because driving across America at least once a year I genuinely have used the men's restroom (specifically in missouri because im not trying to die) out of fear of making anyone uncomfortable and even then you can't win. I've had women chase me in a cracker barrel to tell me I'm using the wrong bathroom when walking to the men's room and have had men IN the men's room think THEY are in the wrong bathroom when I was just trying to avoid anything and I'm like yall I'm just trying to pee can we please just not.

[@GoddoDoggo]

May I suggest the ultimate solution that will bring you and all others supreme happiness: Pee in the woods. This isn't related to you being transgender, I'm just very pro-peeing in the woods. More people should do it.

[@astridtheterrible]

@@GoddoDoggo you say that as if I haven't and also hard agree

[@Lankpants]

My favourite event of the last few years was watching her get chased off her stage and chased out of both Australia and New Zealand. I'm glad that there's at least more resistance to TERF shit in my country than there is in the UK and US.

[@ava5030]

@@GoddoDoggo Spoken like a true Dog God.

[@PamSesheta]

@@GoddoDoggo dog bless you

[@TheTongueTwisler]

Saying you prefer AIDS over any movement is ACTUALLY deranged. Genuinely evil

[@Darth_Bateman]

I prefer Griffith over AIDS tbh.

[@Douglemagne]

What about a movement to torture babies and puppies and kittens to death slowly using fire. Would AIDS still be worse than that?

[@actualgoblin]

its so unbelievably fucked

[@7PlayingWithFire7]

ofc they preferred aids, it killed people they didnt like

[@alexandercandicedad1355]

"I miss the times when the people i hated were dying quietly, now they're all ~alive~ and ~fighting for rights~. I miss the old days" - someone who is totally not a bigot

[@ed_merino]

That “I’m switching to Twilight” line hits so different now.

[@lodgin]

Did anyone else audibly gasp when she said that her previous JK Rowling video was a "couple of years ago"? Nope, I refuse to believe that. Nope.

[@annaholmes1790]

right? 😅

[@Fopenplop]

they call her Ol' One Year Wynn for a reason

[@duncanluciak5516]

Well, Nat is cruising along at a rate of about 1.5 videos a year.

[@KarolYuuki]

For me it was like, last year or something? Hahaha

[@gailygoo86]

I remember having a couple gram of ket on the go watching the original jk bowling essay half a clue as to what's going on but more arsed about getting on gta online Strange lockdown

[@dougthemoleman]

"They took my family" is an extremely odd way of saying "my wife didn't love me anymore." It's wild how far people can delude themselves...

[@ebos9651]

Indeed. As if the wife is just a pawn and not a person of own free will.

[@Bogartis]

​@@ebos9651 I think its more of an ideology thing. Say there's a Muslim family, and the husband picks up Christianity. The wife would say Christianity took her husband from her, because him picking up a new religion was the catalyst of their disagreement. I guess it depends on the intent of the person saying it and the context of the situation. This is kinda different, but I would often say drugs took my sister from me, because I blamed the drugs she was using for her sudden unlikable traits (stealing, lying, violence, animal abuse). Was I trying to invalidate her free will and choices? Not really but more trying to understand the primary reason for the change. Anyway I think this was a really convoluted way to get my point across lol, but I hope you know what I mean

[@cheesecakelasagna]

@Gaming Gamer I was thinking that too. Of course, people in the wrong have always been capable of twisting words that's supposed to be against them, weaponizing it back. But yeah, linguistic relativity should really be more in people's mind. I notice this especially since, I'm essentially bilingual, but English is still not my thought's language so there's always going to be a translation issue that people who are only monoculture/monolingual won't notice.

[@deniseengle4269]

But of course, it couldnt possibly have been them!

[@whade62000]

@@Bogartis Thank you for setting them straight. I was thinking the same thing. It's also ironic that this gentleman shakes his head about people deluding themselves, yet here he is, comfortably jumping on the train and demonizing a normal thing to say...

[@MasterMemo]

I like the point that Jo isn't the final boss of transphobia. I've probably been guilty of acting like that from time to time. I guess she just feels scary due to her popularity like Contrapoints said? But lots of great stuff to learn and consider. Great video!

[@vitormelomedeiros]

Yeah, and I loved how she pointed out that the actual final bosses are the GOP and the Conservative Party in the UK. It shouldn't be normal that actual gate speech is being broadcast in American television as normal opinions, by men who believe they should become President. Trump helped normalize that but people who hate fascism should step up and guarantee that nothing like this will ever happen again in American history. Hate speech is never normal, and yet it is so normalized. The GOP, at this point, is pretty much as bad as the Westboro Baptist Church, but it's way more powerful.

[@FrozEnbyWolf150]

I've been saying the same thing. It's tempting to look for specific individuals, like Matt Walsh, or Donald Trump, as if defeating them will solve the problem. The true final boss is fascism.

[@GreaterSeraph]

I like the way Thought Slime and Sophie From Mars described figures like them. Figures like Graham Linehan are like the Smeagol of transphobia: they are corrupted by its power, but can't actually wield it. JK Rowling and Baroness Nicholson of Winterbourne are the Saruman of transphobia. But, that same analogy still means that this power comes from a bigger power.

[@htpkey]

​@@GreaterSeraph "JK Rowling, the Saruman of transphobia" Thanks, that got a laugh out of me :)

[@htpkey]

​@@GreaterSeraph Wouldn't "JK Rowling, the Voldemort of transphobia" be more fitting?

[@libertexian01]

Finally, after YEARS of watching and loving Contrapoints videos, I find myself with an insight worthy of comment: The little musical phrase around 1:52 is what plays when you go in a fairy hole in Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time. This means, one assumes, that there’s a writing credit for Clair de Lune on Tommy Tallarico's website.

[@therealjetlag]

My love of hbomberguy means I understand this reference 😂

[@adrianomaly1760]

Yay Contra🎉 the way both Anita and JR claim minorities are “well-funded” is hilarious to me. Like, ma’am, if we were well-funded we would all be getting private surgery and not spending years on an NHS waiting list.

[@s.a.w5493]

It's that "the enemy is simultaneously too weak and too strong" thing. Whiny babies that need to be saved from themselves, but also a well funded and organized group you can prop up as threatening. It's a fascist rhetorical tactic (via Umberto Eco)

[@franciscloutier5387]

Spending years on the NHS waiting list, you mean like normal people who have actual health problems, rather than bored middle class kids looking for an identity?

[@KlausJLinke]

@@franciscloutier5387 Another right-wing tactic: Riling up poor people against a discriminated minority.

[@PedanticPig]

They confuse corporations doing superficial pinkwashing in pride month to get the LGBTs to give them money, with actual tangible support. It's asinine.

[@Gingerm0nster]

@@franciscloutier5387you’re severely misinformed if you really think that’s how it works.

[@alexonline2340]

i had no idea how untrue & lesbophobic the "lesbians are more likely to be transphobic" thing was. as a trans man i think i've been guilty of believing that, simply because TERFs always talk about "protecting lesbians" as well as encountering a vocal minority of lesbian TERFs that come from the lesbian separatist persuasion. the statistics you used to disprove this are staggering. thank you for including it

[@FreeTheDonbas]

Lesbians would prefer to date a trans-man over a trans-woman. What does that tell you?

[@JeanKP14]

As another trans dude, it's important to realize that TERFs are a vocal minority of feminists (and women), and that wlw TERFs are even MORE of a minority then. They are very loud, but yeah.

[@gwen9939]

Meanwhile, seeing that 1/10 of all LGBTQ+ don't support trans people is a much larger number than I'd realized. I know the queer community has a long-standing issue of transphobia from within, same with racism, I just didn't think it was this pronounced.

[@OpalLeigh]

It’s like “save the children”, but “save the lesbians” 😂 you always need a group to bravely fake defend…

[@chad8767]

It's really most of the LGBTQ community that supports each other. Because most understand the struggle of feeling different better than a lot of the rest of the world. Back in my old Goth club days we all supported each other because we knew we all needed it, whether it was gays, bisexuals, drag queens whatever.

[@mechanical_chaos]

Irony being that YT keeps trying to push anti-trans videos at me so I darn near blocked this creator based on the video title alone. Watched it. Floored. Subscribed. Shared to all my friends. The articulation and clarity expressed here is divine.

[@havcola6983]

Enjoy the back catalogue! You're in for a treat!

[@Call-me-Al]

That's how i found Contrapoints years ago too: YT kept trying to push alt-right content on me despite me consistently picking "block channel" for that content and watching "leftist" type content, and the channel name sounded like more of the same especially with a blonde in the thumbnail after being recommended too many videos about how the "white replacement" totally is a thing - but the dramatic style she was in was unusual and I checked out her other video titles (often an effective way to find out what a youtuber is about) and realized it wasn't more bigotry and I have enjoyed the great content ever since.

[@ihikealone]

Welcome! 😊

[@SwimmingInSunlight]

Caelen Conrad also did an in-depth video on the same topic if you're craving for more

[@mrbeast85]

@@Call-me-Al I have the same experience of KZbin lately. Especially KZbin Shorts, which I usually watch nonsense on, but in between the videos of people dancing and funny animals it persists in pushing clips of Joe Rogan, Charlie Kirk and all sorts of right-wing stuff at me. I'm subbed to a whole host of left-wing channels on YT and that's what I mostly watch. Yet YT is on a mission to push reactionary content at me all the time!

[@deedoherty4663]

Honestly this is the second time I've watched this entire video and it is an absolute masterpiece. Thank you so so much! It's inspiring, insightful and dignifying for all of us really and thank you

[@jackisnotabird]

Hi, former professional Harry Potter fan and trans man here (also guy who’s voice apparently appears in the witch trials podcast, but of course I wasn’t asked permission or anything). I recently fell into a huge Twilight reread/rewatch that I am genuinely enjoying for some reason so I just had to pop in here to say how much I fucking loved the end of this video. Roared with laughter at your last line. Watched every second of the credits. This entire video is a masterpiece, of course, but way to stick the landing.

[@FreeTheDonbas]

lol you like HP & Twilight? So you had a cisgender identity all along.

[@dummydami]

@@FreeTheDonbas 800 comments on this channel

[@blueizumi]

@@dummydami That's all they do, they also do this on other channels. They need severe help

[@dummydami]

@@blueizumi yes, I know. its not normal for a cis person to spend such a huge amount of time w trans people in their mind.

[@FreeTheDonbas]

@@dummydami I'm trans...

[@yannickvanhoutte4403]

Your last video left me and the wife kinda worried about your well-being. We were completely oblivious to you being back on Twitter or anything else, so for the past year or so we just occasionally went "wonder how Natalie is doing. Hope she's all right." All just a long-winded way to say: good to see you back.

[@youtubeuserremainsanonymou9022]

feel the same. I also am glad to hear she has a relationship that she finds joy in

[@hailmuse]

Also same, also I'm really happy to see she's in a relationship too :D sure I have a delusional crush on her but I also want her to be happy

[@grandmabea6471]

My trans granddaughter loved Harry Potter when she was a child. It has been heartbreaking for me to watch her suffer the pain of a formative author attacking the very centre of her selfhood. Rowling is a bigot and a misogynist herself, and I am disappointed beyond measure in her. And the “Witch Trials of J.K. Rowling” is a piece of utter rubbish. Thank you, Ms. Wynn. For standing up for your community and my granddaughter. EDIT I've never had such a lovely response to a comment I've made before! I sent a screenshot of this to my granddaughter (because I was flabbergasted that Ms. Wynn replied), and she said "Senpai noticed you, Nan!" which I'm told by her is very funny and she wanted me to share it, though I'm not entirely sure what that means. Anyways, much love to all of you who've replied and "liked" this, and I hope each and every one of you has a very good day. Much love, Grandma Bea

[@blueizumi]

What a great grandmother. I hope things get better for your granddaughter and all transgender people.

[@katie-allen]

So exciting to see people of all generations watching these videos! ❤ thank you for being a kind support to your granddaughter

[@grandmabea6471]

@@blueizumi I hope so too. And I’ll fight for that future until I die.

[@laurachow8150]

You go Grandma Bea! Love seeing intergenerational support. ❤

[@petitmains]

Thank you for standing up for your granddaughter. She will always remember this and it's such a special thing to know that her grandma is on her side.

[@MableyLisa]

Well, one good thing that came from your participation in the podcast is that I (and presumably lots of others who thought you were the most interesting part of it), have now found you on KZbin. I, too, went into it all starry-eyed and hopeful that Megan would get through to Jo.

[@k1ttu43]

Omg you and I are rewatching the same videos 😂😂😂