Controversial Debuts In K-pop pt1

[@MidnightTheories]

🔮 What are your thoughts on these debuts and the negative attention that followed them? 🔮Get K-pop merch and Korean snacks sent directly to your door! Grab your Kloot box at (ships worldwide🌎) → www.klootbox.com?aff=318

[@jooyeonxh3904]

[@neurofunkie]

hi cookie is not the youngest kpop group, here's a list; kpop.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Kids_groups

[@galaxy_kitten95]

@@neurofunkie I was just about to comment this. One of the earliest groups was GP Basic back in 2010 where most of the members were 13 and their maknae was only about 11 or 12 at the time of their debut.

[@aesist]

EXP Edition immediately reminded me of big time rush for some reason 😭

[@jiminscomputer]

PFFT

[@haliee]

don't do big time rush like that 😭

[@samsunggalaxy2932]

💀💀

[@aesist]

@@haliee I’m sorry 😭

[@leximichelle6022]

not the btr slander 😭

[@AndiniKissesGoodbye]

eternity is like vocaloid but horror version. like, i'm scared.

[@alexvoid4022]

lmaooo 😭 (btw vocaloid is voicebanks of the providers)

[@AndiniKissesGoodbye]

@@alexvoid4022 hahaha yeah i know i know, i just meant with the fact that they're not "real" more like characters created from something that is real but like.. modified lmao

[@flwr5359]

Except vocaloid is lowkey better--

[@truefalse934]

Who sang the song? Because the vocals and song makes my ears want to bleed, it’s so bad 😖

[@dedejuice6325]

@@truefalse934 apparently all of them sang it

[@nik-xt6vs]

eternity will never sit right with me. not only can the technology be used for harmful purposes, but it's likeness to uncanny valley just brings out my human instinct to fear the group rather than support them.

[@norawantstobattle]

i feel so bad for honey popcorn. i mean i get it, south korean culture is super conservative, but omg, these girls are beautiful and they show so much potential

[@ELmayberry]

yeah, same

[@kkuralina]

And I have seen some videos talking about how common av is in Japan. Japanese girls doing this is quite common but u don’t support it as many of them are underage

[@eri1609]

@@kkuralina what the heck are some of them really underage? im japanese and im aware av is pretty common and that there are some stuffs like photobooks and dvd with chidren that have them in very questionable clothing and poses to the point where it could be borderline illegal material... i know japan is slow on these things as they only completely outlawed explicit material involving minors about 5 or 6 years ago but i didnt know it was common like you are saying?

[@commercialfree]

For honey popcorn I understand that they're active AV actresses or gravure models but they came to Korea as idols, just to sing and dance. With the noise the knetz made the girls' AV contents will now be discovered by their youths they want to protect.

[@norawantstobattle]

@@commercialfree fr, like if no one said anything, the children that they’re so desperately trying to protect wouldn’t even know. i swear knetz are the worst sometimes

[@stoopidgrrl]

the fact that there was controversy at all regarding sixbomb seems a little foolish lmfao like netizens judge people so harshly about their looks and will go out of their way to shame someone if they arent considered pretty but a group taking that and using it to their advantage suddenly is wrong? seems hypocritical to me idk

[@SherylAnneTBien]

Ah yes, EXP Edition. If this is how NCT Hollywood is going to look like in the future, there is going to be huge backlash.

[@TheJrockfreak]

Maybe the nct name will help them get less backlash but your probably right. I was a fan of EXP Edition tho so I'm curious about NCT Hollywood

[@cupidream9702]

@@TheJrockfreak Nope, if anything the NCT name is getting them even more hate. Knetz hate the idea and a lot of international fans too, since they want SM to try to promote the members they have already before debuting a new unit

[@0_base1]

Honestly I think it’s totally fine! Doesn’t matter their race. As long as they can speak Korean and are talented, I think there shouldn’t be a problem!:)

[@ariana.4436]

I don’t think so because we should underestimate lee soo man since we don’t know if they’re Asian Americans or just Americans so let us not assume since sm groups were all called flop expect for exo but after some years they got so popular like half of sm groups are millions sellers like red velvet and NCT they underestimated these groups but look where are they now.

[@rachelthehomosapiens]

I’m pretty sure SM will train everyone properly though lmao.

[@AustinT97]

I think NTX's debut concept had good intentions but it just was executed poorly by the company in my opinion also can't wait to see what groups are in Part 2

[@TheJrockfreak]

Agreed

[@FishoeShoe_da_great]

@@ochirio that's exactly it!! personally, if anyone used my native attire i'd be happy as long as no one does offensive acts or gestures

[@noahfence6838]

I don’t think there’s a proper way to execute it 🙃 people will take offense to it no matter what.

[@TheJustDanceTeamJDT]

ok but Getting Prettier After by SixBomb was a certified bop

[@changminmybeloved3280]

I never understood the hate... maybe too real for some

[@urvampmari]

My most played song

[@nap163020]

I just checked it out. It's so catchy!

[@rosss6108]

As a Scotsman from and living in Scotland, I was not offended in any way when a rookie from Ntx wore a kilt because of cultural appropriation. I'm sure I speak for all Scottish people when I say we are proud of tartan and its rich history and love to share it with others but it looks like a cheap fancy dress kilt rather than a proper heavy wool one which might cost a few hundred pounds/dollars to buy new. Traditional kilts tell you what part of Scotland you are from and what fammily or clan you are descended from. We have specific tartan types for tourists or non Scottish people to wear too that have been invented recently and have no clan history.

[@rotsuuu]

The cultural appropriation issue is only a thing for the Americans

[@rotsuuu]

@Strawberry Shortcake it means America has f*cked up history

[@yohan596]

Cuz you are white

[@rosss6108]

@@yohan596 I might be white but Scottish people were still persecuted by the English, look up the Highland clearences, have you ever seen the film Brave heart??

[@SuziH]

@@yohan596 what does race have to do with cultural clothing?

[@craxymunchkin3482]

When Boystory debuted no one bated an eye but now that its a girl group everyone is angry about it

[@tuesdaywithjisoo8395]

Personally I also think Boy Story shouldn't have debuted so young but then again not many people know about them.

[@wendyszimzalabimoutfit3328]

It’s because people don’t care as much about boys. Girls experienced a lot more trauma from the past and it might be more acknowledged for girls nowadays, boys aren’t even batted an eye at. So they just didn’t care children were debuting😭

[@cupidream9702]

@@tuesdaywithjisoo8395 yeah they’re cpop not kpop, so a lot of kpop fans don’t even know about them but from the ones who do they don’t like how they debuted so young

[@cupidream9702]

Boystory is cpop tho??? They aren’t a kpop group. They’re under JYP , but they’re not kpop. So, most kpop fans won’t care for them. From what I’ve seen kpop fans say, they don’t like Boystory because of their age. Both are terrible, young children shouldn’t be debuting.

[@neurofunkie]

No, Girl Story caused a huge scene and their group was disbanded over it; thethreewisemonkeys.com/2011/01/24/how-young-is-too-young-kpops-newest-9-year-old-kid-idol-girls/

[@scottietrademark]

Six Bomb and Honey Popcorn were really just hated because people are judgy. Good on Six Bomb for imbracing something that is SO common in South Korea. And like no one in the world has ever consumed adult content lol please. There's nothing wrong with women feeling confident about their bodies and making money off of it. Fans need to stop looking at their idols like theyre pure and innocent.

[@ninarances9074]

For Honey Popcorn, I find it a bit hypocritical how the haters hate it when three of the members work at the adult film industry. And yet, when it comes to fanservice, provocative dance moves, revealing clothes, etc. They're fine with it.

[@ninarances9074]

I feel like the plastic surgery controversy about Six Bomb is kinda like virtue signalling. People will make fun of you for having an ugly face, so you get plastic surgery (either because of peers or because you just wanted to.) But after getting it, people will bash you and call you "fake" because you don't love who you are. When really, their judgemental views on you are the reasons why you can't love yourself anymore. They're making you feel as if you have to impress them or entertain them, to satisfy them.

[@rinrin9236]

@@ninarances9074 the backlash against Six Bomb was ridiculously stupid and hypocritical. The people accusing them of "glorifying plastic surgery" conveniently forgot how glorified plastic surgery already is in Korea; parents literally gift their children plastic surgery as a reward for completing high school. Those people also conveniently forgot that the majority of kpop idols get plastic surgery themselves, they just don't publicly admit it. They were attacking Six Bomb for something already incredibly normalised in the industry. The accusations of promoting unrealistic beauty standards and encouraging eating disorders could also be said of almost every other kpop artist since the beginning of the industry. At the very least, people should be happy that Six Bomb actually wanted their procedures, unlike many other idols who've been coerced or forced to surgically alter their appearances to better fit the beauty standards.

[@meganhunter5139]

I mean it's illegal in the country they are promoting in so......Idk

[@krisuler7734]

“There’s nothing wrong with women feeling confident about their bodies and making money off of it.”…Actually most sex workers and pornstars are NOT confident at all and many have expressed past assault and issues that led them down this path. Obviously there’s exceptions to this but it’s just a but obnoxious that it’s the politically correct thing to spew nowadays to the point that even prostitution is accepted as just oooh sooo superrr empowering. It’s not. It’s not some expression of empowerment and most of these adult content actresses were forced into that position for various reasons and regret it later on. I have friends who are /were sex workers and it was never about “feeling confident and making money off of it.” Sex workers should not be bashed or devalued or judged, period…however that notion is totally different from now accepting all sex work as just this joyous expression of self and confidence and voila! Do you want your daughter to become a sex worker? It’s one thing to say, I’ll love and support my child even if they do go down that road vs oh yes, she should do whatever feels right!even prostitution! And unfortunately this new age of PC bs has led to folks claiming the latter thinking it’s the same as the former when it is not. Hopefully this sheds a different perspective on the topic 🤗🤗 It was just jarring to read something like that when speaking about these ladies who were basically forced into this line of work, regretted it, and were trying to move forward.

[@lys3521]

My honest toughts on non-asians debuting: I think a lot of iFans just want to fetishize asians young women and young men. It's their fantasy and they don't want to see it ruined. Obviously this is not the only reason, but I think it is a big one.

[@markigirl2757]

I agree, explains some of the nct fans being a bit hateful at the thoguht of other races in the industry despite it being SM idea to began with; their yellow fever is showing

[@rinrin9236]

This is my exact thought as to why iFans want kpop to be exclusively "Asian", I just couldn't put it into words. I always found it weird how Koreans don't mind non-Asians in kpop, but international fans throw a hissy fit at the thought of an idol not being stereotypically Asian. This seems like the main, if not only, reason.

[@byulharangforlife]

@@rinrin9236 honestly, if someone doesnt "look" east asian, they throw a hissy fit, even though asia as a continent is extremely diverse

[@dedejuice6325]

Yeh as an asian I wouldn't care I'm not korean so I guess I can't speak for them but as a person who's nationality is laos I wouldn't care if anyone tried to sing in our language (in my opinion) it's just music and if they like it and aren't harming the community or being disrespectful about the lyrics in music I'm fine with it

[@cassandrajean-baptiste8692]

my thoughts on it, i dont mind black people being in kpop because kpop's foundation is black culture to begin with, but seeing white people doing it...idk it just makes me feel like minorities cant have one thing to themselves to express their culture

[@Sheepy16able]

As a German, I never understand why Koreans think it`s okay or funny to use nazis in their outfits, photos, MVs or song lyrics. I often have to hear from non-Germans that all Germans are nazis and it offends me so, so much to see behaviour like this from idols. it`s not an aethetics, it`s not anything. it was a horrible time which should never be used for stuff like that.

[@jell._.y]

eternity still makes me uncomfortable. i could at least listen to their song if i actually liked it 💀

[@otroatardecer]

I honestly think that honey popcorn could've been something

[@srideout91]

I absolutely adore honey popcorn.

[@whoareyouitsjustmemyselfandi]

SAME!

[@byulharangforlife]

@@pipulp676 wtf

[@Deeviiouss]

Exactly

[@Dungeonsynthenjoyer]

Me too!

[@Dungeonsynthenjoyer]

@@byulharangforlife ?

[@jalinnaplace0613]

What I don’t understand about these experimental groups is they seem to forget Kpop got its ideas for BG and GG from America.You can just call yourself a BG or a GG. You can bring back something that was originally here with out calling yourself a Korean group. It’s so weird that these people just seem to forget the 80’s and 90’s happened lol

[@saintnicole3209]

literally

[@yuki97kira]

Whats im confused about...

[@greenteawhoney]

honey popcorn is such a sweet group. they all seem to genuinely love kpop and preforming, and i can’t help but root for them.

[@dragonrider4279]

9:00 No, don't tell me that the stylist did this? Like didn't at least more then one person look at these outfits and thought that it just looks way too? I just saw this for the first time and my German eyes went like this: O-O oh no. I'm not hurt but I think that even if the stylist meant something different, that it just looks too similar.

[@dragonrider4279]

Edit: He/She could have just switched a few colors, I don't know but there were 4 colors/changes to switch them. 1. Black "ground" 2. Red 3. White circle 4. black lines. Everyone please stay healthy and have a nice day or night (for me it's 12am lol). :D

[@NONPOINT420]

Clearly based on the company's ridiculous response, they're all feigning ignorance, which means they all knew what this was and planned to spin it later. But it didn't work cuz only a simpleton would buy that lie. The company thought it would get the group more attention than their limited talents deserved, so they ofc used bigotry. A pillar commonly used in kpop. Like qu__r-baiting.

[@streuselkuchen2.061]

Agree, some colour changes and maybe a different placing and it would have been better

[@chrryluv9513]

Tbh eternity kinda scares me. Since they're virtual, we aren't really seeing anything original. For example, the members just playing around and having fun and stuff, it's all programed. so like you get me sbsbgsgs

[@happbapp]

I think videos where members of groups get to play around or like go on variety shows is of big importance in kpop, so when you take that out,,, not only does it make it harder to like the group as much but it also is just leaving me wondering what they’re gonna be able to produce all virtual like that,,

[@yuki97kira]

Im not one who follows kpop super thoroughly, except for onewe...but really not just for music..i love their interviews, blunders, vlives, just them as human and just them talking and all Edit: i forgot to include my point lol, so to me, its not just music..its the humanity and personality that attracts me to them massively

[@bb.yani1]

the fact kpop fans hate anyone who isn't korean singing in korean, shows how fans obsession with an entire culture's media is purely a fetish.

[@ErinAnodea]

for a lot of these situations, i feel very badly for the idols, just trying to live out a dream and being taken advantage of.

[@quantumleap1491]

I’ve always said if you train and learn Korean you should be able to be a kpop star, Kpop literally means it’s Korean pop music which means the language is Korean, So who cares if they are korean or not, as long as they go through what normal trainees go through it’s fair game.

[@bdh711]

FACTS! Kpop copies it’s entire music industry from the USA and Japan? Why do stans not call that cultural appropriation?

[@pennypillow4445]

i feel bad for honey popcorn

[@JiaPia3]

I find it interesting that everyone was so concerned for Cookie, and they should have a chance at “being kids” when a hell of a lot of idols start to train at a much younger age, no? They’re just older at debut. 🤔

[@won2woourgirlsvt64]

6:14 Ngl as a Scottish person I thought this was really cool. I've never seen a kpop idol even mention Scotland let alone dress in our cultural clothing~

[@figcookies1389]

I think it was cute how they were representing different parts of the world

[@vale4364]

Bc the issue is the other two outfits. People from asia, africa, south america face racism everyday and their culture is hated or made fun of, so when some group of singers make it look pretty, everyone turns their back to the people that actually suffer when they showcase their culture to the world. For scottish people, it doesn't seem like they were ever highly discriminated

[@rinrin9236]

I feel like that group was wrongfully accused of cultural appropriation. Most of the outfits didn't look stereotypical and were, in my opinion, respectful to the cultures they were representing. It looks like the company actually put in effort to research the cultures they wanted to exhibit, and that's deserving of praise when you see how most other kpop groups attempt to show cultural appreciation. I feel like a lot of people throw cultural appropriation accusations at anyone they see engaging in cultures that are not their own, which in itself is obviously a problem. It's attacking people who genuinely want to learn about other cultures, and it makes it harder to call out people who are actually culturally insensitive.

[@NONPOINT420]

@@rinrin9236 getting to know a culture is respectful compared to cosplaying the culture by wearing an outfit of a culture. But some people never get that. I'm always very glad that most are severely ignorant when it comes to my culture cuz I almost never see this happen to my culture thank goodness for ignorance.

[@streuselkuchen2.061]

@@vale4364 I do get what you mean, however we shouldnt just „forget“ about other cultures when they face racism. They should be presented as every other culture, i feel like thats a good way to promote equality. But maybe thats just me:)

[@isiaadiel3468]

I feel so bad for Honey Popcorn. It really shouldn't be anybody's business what people want to do as long as it's legal and not hurting someone. They made it in Japan, where a lot of idols graduate to or are forced into the AV industry, but they decided to go forward with this new step instead. Not just 10 year olds listen to music, since that's what they claim to be so afraid of.

[@NIzzah]

I slightly agree but you have to also consider the culture in Korea. Even though it is normal in Japan, in Korea, even if a concept is sexier than normal, they would get backlash as well. What they did might be legal in Japan but as explained, it is frowned upon in Korea so yeah. That is what they should have considered when they decided to debut in a country that sees this kind of job negatively.

[@ashantythegreat3231]

@@NIzzah But they are not doing it there. Korea should learn, their culture and country isn't the only country in the world, who doesn't allows this but too exists. Those girls did AV, but AV is a job. If Korea wants this stuff away from their country, they should stop doing close things to their idols too. Korea is a county with culture that is conservative I know, but that is not a excuse for the types of comments and hate those girls got. There's a difference in Korea trying to protect the youth and keeping away such material (which they didn't even do years after like wtf, they just being idols) and trying to shove that down in those women trying to follow their dreams. I support the first claim, but if they really cared about us young K-pop fans, they won't not debut minors and force minors in such concepts. As long Honey Popcorn haas a older audience (16 to up, ofc) and Korea bans websites showing their content- and they too don't do it in South Korea or promote the content (which they do not at all, those girls just singing and dancing), I am okay with Honey Popcorn. The adult industry is tough and most do the content for money, even though how the environment is know to be like. I understand people's morals or views to such content, but those are people still. What they did in the past wasn't even hurting no one for you guys to say such things, and shouldn't affect their future. I personally don't like the music they make, but it's just that. Music.

[@tokki2901]

With honey popcorn tho, while only Yua that still make adult content, most of the members are still dabbling in gravure idol path. If you do know gravure, its basically modelling but with risque clothing such as swimwear, underwear, and such, usually posing with sexy pose. That did not sit well for viewers that doesnt have "gravure idol" culture, while in Japan, gravure is something considered common. So Honey popcorn ended up not only hated by kfans, but some foreign fans also choose to ignore them and they ended up only known as "Adult Video" idols in the market. To be honest, I love them, I dont care about their past or current gravure and adult jobs, I just like their contents and songs. I find it weird that people would sexualize idols, but when they started doing it because they wanted to and profiting from it, they get hate instead.

[@pinkicechuu]

Cookie remind me of Busters... I really hope they don't face the same problems as Busters did, their company better not sexualize them or I will personally fly to South Korea and storm into their building to scold everyone in. I'm not letting another Busters situation happen ever again.

[@batsy_]

I didn't know who SixBomb was before this, but it sucks that people hated them so much. Idols and celebrities get plastic surgery all the time. It's so weird how the public constantly knows of the truth but wants to keep it as hush hush as possible (plastic surgery, dating/marriage, weight, aging, etc). It's like they don't want to recognize the truth about the pressure they put on the images of these celebrities getting those things done. Their concept honestly sounded pretty cool.

[@srideout91]

Sime from exp edition can sing like there is no tomorrow

[@mihaelabarlovic4139]

Ah finally someone who appreciates them

[@kkuralina]

I don’t really listen to their music, but I think they would have improved a lot. I don’t mind having them in this industry tho

[@TheJrockfreak]

Agreed

[@uncertainsubscriber4815]

I like EXP Edition. Stress is a good song.

[@blue3111]

Everyone hated on exp for the wrong reasons..... if being non Korean in kpop was actually appropriation, there would be no Chinese, Japanese, or Thai idols. Just admit it, korea was too racist- the only valid criticisms were the judgement of skills. They weren't very well trained to be idols, but they were okay artists, at least some of them.

[@mihaelabarlovic4139]

Well they hated the debut because it was terrible even the members admitted it but last comeback Stress was well received by Koreans international fandoms keep hating on them Koreans did accept them after a while and started to give them compliments and support

[@assbabywillbemychildsname.3687]

@@mihaelabarlovic4139 They're still band?

[@blue3111]

@@mihaelabarlovic4139 I'm really glad, I'll probably check it out

[@mihaelabarlovic4139]

@@assbabywillbemychildsname.3687 they never officially disbanded and they did express desire to comeback but it hasn't happened

[@6idle4ever49]

same with those intl fans tho, also not to mention they are *experimental* group, ppl seems forgot or just choosing to be ✨ignorants✨

[@cyberink7093]

The NTX one still hurts me. They had so many predebut content and Kiss the world is a really good song. I actually think it was a case of good intention bad execution. The company should have made more research / pick a different concept / outfits

[@vaespor]

WAKE UP BABE NEW MIDNIGHT THEORIES VIDEO

[@joielazu7867]

the cookie one, why didn't the agency just wait for a few years lol, they're still a kid not even a teen

[@fernandanascimento5712]

Honey Popcorn was great, the members are gorgeous and got talent, they deserved better

[@ArianaSB1797]

I was fan of EXP-Edition, and I say was because although they are not officially disbanded, only Sime is residing in Korea, while the other are not. They are still good friends, and this was their dream, but is obvious that it was really hard for them to prove the point they wanted to made with kpop with no korean members. I don't know if it was a good decision or not, but knowing them made me really happy

[@OPPAWONTMARRYYOU]

Same!! I really liked them, their vibe and music. It's such a pity it didn't work out.

[@sakkiechan77]

They were always so sweet when they got on Vlive or IG always noticing both me and my daughter and they always made us laugh and smile I loved their music too 💕 I miss them 😢

[@TheJrockfreak]

Same here I really enjoyed their music

[@mangacraz00]

Hmm I didn’t realize eternity was mo-capped. I thought the faces were projected on live bodies. That makes me feel a little better about the group, even if it still have an uncanny valley look to it.

[@aprils1888]

OMG If you ever make a part two you can include LIPBUBBLE, one of the only groups I know that had more dislikes than likes on their MV (the original one that was deleted atleast)

[@juelledaone]

I generally think that kpop company’s should wait for a trainee to be 17-18 to debut

[@alexpark472]

The editing is so professional it's perfect.

[@NewjeansPOWERPUFF4567]

WHY DOES IT HAVE TO BE AT 5AM CST TIME OUT OF ALL DAYS ITS THE MORNING OF STARR TEXAS KPOP FANS WE HAD UNDERSTAND.

[@cazzuichi3926]

CAN WE TALK ABOUT YOUR EDITING? ITS SO PRETTY I LOVE IT SM

[@lykapogs3814]

This really hit me hard on how TOXIC SOME KPOP fans are.. these people dont deserve all the hates..people are just very NEGATIVEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE and hateful with the world that they want to destroy other people too

[@ladyexo3030]

Kloot is lit!! I got my Exo box. It was great. Also I am not regretting the fact that I officially subbed to you. I like my “new kpop” home.

[@blarmy827]

So people really think Honey Popcorn shouldn’t be allowed to create music on the kpop industry bc of a job from their past? Saying they might influence younger generations into taboo behavior? So it’s okay for Stellar basically forced into dancing in their underwear while performing dance moves where they spread their legs as the camera zooms in right up in their crotch area.... or how they have them basically humping the floor.... and that group was around from 2011 -2018? Ppl are such hypocrites... I don’t have a problem with artistic freedom and the dancing wouldn’t bother me much bc im an adult, making it a big deal is on whoever is doing that .... but since I know the members were horrified at the “outfits” and the things they had to do in that group so I think it’s okay to bring it up as a negative example. Has nothing to do with stellar themselves.. the point is the hypocrisy. It’s kinda like how sex is supposedly taboo... and yet almost all big idol groups or artists use sexual imagery, costumes, dance moves or lyrics and are applauded. I don’t get the mentality there... like it makes absolutely no sense and think it’s bullshit to play the “don’t want my child being influenced by them to do what they did,” card and claim kpop is marketed towards younger kids. If that’s the truth then there’s a shit ton of groups you’re going to have to force into disbandment... bc there is some very risqué things happening in most big groups or artists on the industry currently. It’s ridiculous.

[@commercialfree]

There was an idol group that debuted several years ago that are around the age of cookie members. Forgot the name but they basically faced the same issues with cookie

[@kirsten7770]

I think it's kinda pushing it calling cultural appropriation for having none asian members in kpop. Because in my eyes having someone who is not Asian in a group is the same as having Asians members that aren't Korean in a group. Is it cultural appropriation to have Japanese, Chinese, Thai, ect members? Obviously no. So why should it matter if someone isn't Asian? However, if you want to be kpop you HAVE TO SPEAK KOREAN! Having songs in mostly English and throwing in random Korean words does not make it kpop. The quality of the music has to meet the standard of kpop I don't think the members nationality should be important.

[@mihaelabarlovic4139]

EXP edition did have Korean lyrics with little English the other groups did an English song

[@alexandramonetlo]

i loved how u used scenes from Imitation :)

[@amelakulalic8581]

I never understood why people were so offended by NTX wearing those clothes. The DID NOT make fun of it, i think they actually resprected those cultures. People are too sensitive and cant see a difference between cultural appropriation and appreciation. They wore Croatian clothes too and I saw people being happy bc of it, me included.

[@mangomarsmalade]

I was shocked when I first discovered cookie, some of the girls were my age, and I was so shocked. As long as they stay safe from any hate they receive since they debuted around my age, then it should be fine.

[@BleachBlue04]

As far as I’m concerned, those who were angered about that EXP group lowkey (or highkey depending on how blatant) sexualize Asian people. I don’t see any of those people upset about stars like Lisa (BP) or Mina, Sana, Momo (Twice) or Handong (Dreamcatcher) being kpop stars. It’s a double standard in full force and it’s ridiculous.

[@dedejuice6325]

It's because they're not any type of asian that's why a lot of people hate them even though they were an experiment group formed by some asians

[@yuki97kira]

Im mostly confused, because boy groups and all already extend from european boy groups (big time rush)...i suppose kpop is more of an asian thing, thats why those whom are asian arent being batted an eye. Personally, as an asian myself, i suppose if europeans are forming a kpop group, i just consider them a regular boy group just like big time rush (cuz idk what other european boy grouos there are lol) as long as theyre not weaboos like oli london...eh..to me they just seems like regular boybands

[@chaeyoungswifey4153]

All the ppl you listed are asians tho, while the exp guys aren't, but I get what you're trying to say I think

[@lrose1310]

I feel like people would have been more open to them if they were any good. I think the problem was, even if they were all Asian they still would have been a pretty weak group. Their "foreigner", "non-Korean/Asian" image was really all that set them apart and their main selling factor. There's also the fact that a lot of Asian Americans turn to kpop and the Korean Entertainment industry to actually have a chance at global stardom, because Asian Americans are often shut out of the American music and entertainment industry. I think EXP Edition deserved a chance, but they didn't really deliver much once given one. I still don't think they deserved any hate, but I get the criticism when you look at how actual Asian Americans are treated in the US industry and why people might get protective over it.

[@paperlionkid1787]

I like this series. I keep learning a lot about Kpop from you. Thank your work.

[@reinarain5307]

I expect A.C.E's legendary debut with hot pants (shorts) to be in part 2

[@meimei]

six bomb just showed how far companies will go in hope of making it big (they were advertisement for the clinic too, and only paid half the price, and nothing major was done).. they did disband in 2021 after being a dj group for a few years

[@LifeendDeath]

6:49 The guy on the right is wearing traditional clothing from my country. My first thought? "Oh that's so cool!" As long as the cloting is proper and it doesn't look like Halloween costumes I think it's all fine.

[@The_Super_NOVA]

One big flaw with virtual kpop groups is the core concept of kpop that they can't possibly achieve: kpop idols are marketed as role models to look up to, as someone you could strive to be like. Whether that means being pretty, funny, a good dancer, a talented singer, etc. How can we look up to a bunch of programmed pixels? Unless you're a programmer/graphic designer, then idolize away, I won't stop you. Don't get me wrong, I like K/DA and I'm curious to see what Aespa does with the concept, but I just can't bring myself to stan pixels when there are real-life goddesses like SNSD or IZ*ONE walking the earth. One more thought: anyone got any theories as to why there have only been female virtual groups so far and no boy groups? Curious to hear everyone's opinions. :)

[@Elliemew09]

I feel like NTX almost had it right ☹ but I don't think they should be hated on. The Dashiki looks good, as does the kilt (as in, they're being worn properly) but the Aladdin costume is a big no no 😬

[@adettessubs444]

Yeah, they should've done research. And asked people of those cultures😕

[@duckydae]

That’s not a kilt though, it’s just a flimsy tartan skirt.

[@mag8635]

not only is eternity just... completely unnecessary and profoundly unsettling, but the song is... god awful.

[@idajnsson8599]

Six Bomb didn't debut with the plastic surgery concept though.. they made their debut in 2012 with a "normal" sexy concept, then went through a number of line-up changes before the plastic surgery thing in 2017. Also, they officially disbanded last week or so

[@meimei]

i'm glad some of the guys from exp moved and actually try to learn as much as posible

[@mihaelabarlovic4139]

Exp edition did train for a while before debut and the debut was terrible and they know it but they learned from it and were doing much better and were accepted by Koreans the international fandoms have problems with them not Koreans

[@ELmayberry]

Yeah, I started following them, after they appeared on ICSYV

[@mariadiallo5786]

Did they disband, though? (I don't know much about their current whereabouts)

[@mihaelabarlovic4139]

@@mariadiallo5786 they never officially disbanded and were talking about the comeback months ago

[@mariadiallo5786]

@@mihaelabarlovic4139 oh, ok

[@luvelys]

Please do a video on pritz. They are so mysterious, unknown and controversial.

[@Charlie-xd6vq]

I love the new intro bestie

[@dramaanalyst1745]

The real meaning of K Pop Is Pop music with Korean language By Teddy Park

[@aprils1888]

Honestly I don't get why, When a non-asian idol doesn't have to train a lot before debut, they are attacked and shunned. But when (If I'm not mistaken) Olivia Hye (LOONA) had to train for only a day, it's a quirky fact about her and she's called a queen. I'm not trying to be hateful, I just always thought about it xdd

[@misstronic]

olivia hye is a different situtation iirc, she was training in fnc academy before going to bbc

[@whl.523]

Because they are expected to assimilate to the culture as well 🤷‍♀️ Kinda messed up tbh. If they have talent and are fluent I think it’s fine for non-Asians

[@mihaelabarlovic4139]

Because they don't bother to check info EXP members trained before debut but everyone hates on them just because they are not Korean

[@whl.523]

@@mihaelabarlovic4139 I’m not EXP stan either but remember that one of the backlash they received for earlier debut was poor Korean pronunciation and no dancing. Ofc I see that the hate was overwhelming, but I understand a lot of the concerns about it

[@GotInterest]

olivie hye was only a trainee at BBC for one day, but she was a trainee elsewhere for a lot longer

[@aceanarchy5554]

I think Eternity is a super cool concept. It'd be less straining for people who want to be idols but don't think they can handle that lifestyle. Plus people who want to be idols while keeping a sense of privacy or their identity private so they can still have a normal life would still get to debut without worries. If handled correctly, I think it could work as a really interesting maybe smaller side of kpop.

[@g.2658]

The funniest thing about EXP Edition is that screenshot about a white dude yelling "no white people in my kpop" Bro it isn't YOUR kpop. In general I do not think non-koreans, especially white people have ANY say in who should and who should not be in kpop.

[@jmcatedral3441]

Ntx had good intentions but the management failed to execute it right. They also act as a catalyst to talking about the difference between cultural appropriation and cultural appreciation.

[@SirenxSounds]

About NXT controversy. One of the guys (the blonde one?) was wearing traditional clothing from my culture - Bulgaria. I think it's not offensive in any way because he didn't wear it to mock us or something but to introduce the group concept. That's why I don't understand the hate they got. Of course, people from other cultures are free to feel offended or upset but personally, I don't see an issue here. I don't see anything bad of idols(their stylists) getting inspired by other cultures (I'm not saying using it as an aesthetic but being inspired which is different). I think it's fine as long as they don't mock it and make fun of it. Also, I'm not a fan of them if somebody think I'm defending them because of that

[@taeilmagic]

Цялата ситуация започна от мюсюлманските к-поп фенове според които хората, които не са част от дадена култура нямат право да носят или използват даденото нещо от другата култура , защото неуважавали и злепоставяли един вид хората, които са част от тази чужда култура. И затова получиха много хейт.

[@SirenxSounds]

@@taeilmagic Това не го знаех. Мислех, че е заради някои грешки в дрехите на другите култури. Смисъл не били точно представени, а по скоро напрвени по стереотипи. Според няма нищо лошо в това да носиш традиционна дреха от чужда култура. Разбира се като не се подиграваш на културата.

[@taeilmagic]

@@SirenxSounds Така е , но не видях тези момчета да се подиграват или злепоставят по някакъв начин на културите , които решиха да представят. Дори имаше хора (от тези култури от тийзър снимките), които подкрепиха момчетата и казаха , че всичко е наред , и че ги носят правилно. Но да тръгнеш да лъжеш, че хората от въпросните култури били засегнати , обидени и щели да ги съдят без дори да са запознати с мнението на хората от тези държави вече беше прекалено.

[@SirenxSounds]

@@taeilmagic Да имаше и доста добри коментари. Видях пост за това в инстаграм. Не знам кой е разпространявал лъжи за обидени хора и дори съд, но се случва постоянно за съжаление. Няма нищо лошо в това което са направили, но в kpop феновете са готови да намразят някого и за най-малкото нещо и винаги са недоволни(не всички фенове разбира се).

[@taeilmagic]

@@SirenxSounds Цялата история тръгна от Instagram и Tic Tok. За жалост голяма част от новите к-поп фенове приемат дори най-малкото нещо от тяхната култура при идол за обида. Не съм виждала ,като човек, който слуша к-поп от 8 година , такова масово нещо да хейтиш някой задето имал част от дадена култура и да искат публични извинения от идолите. Просто прекаляват :(

[@Carolina-bw6gy]

The debuts ideas still shock and make me unconfortable: One is pretty old, where the members did blackface and mockery to black people in their songs Sixbomb wouldnt be bad if the members just made songs about anything and said "We did plastic it aint a issue". But the fact it was a concept for the group like everything they are caracterized by it is so sad. They debuted to make marketing for plastic cirurgy? One was pretty inspired by jpop, they used a outfit in their debut completely inspired by military and glamourized version of n a z i uniforms. Eternity....errrr not the right time, because this year the women in south korea are fighting hard to make a crime the use of apps, p rn, hidden cameras and d eep f akes. So I dont like stanning music artists that arent real Cookie and I think bonusbaby are the youngest groups Ive ever seen 😭💔

[@strawberryyuriroselia3480]

Are BounsBaby the youngest group

[@noah1509]

About the youngest girlgroup, their parents have made a decision to let their kid follow their dreams, and from what i’ve seen theyve got potential. And frankly we have no say in hoe other people live their lives and raise their kids. i can also name so many idols who debuted at age 14 and under and i’ve never heard any complaints abt them. To name a few: BoA (13), Jiyoung (KARA, 14), Taemin (SHINee, 14), Krystal (F(X), 14), Sohyun (orange/4minute, 12/14), Sohee (wonder girls, 14). So just let them be. Their parents arent gonna just abandon them and if their kid is actually doing bad i doubt theyll just let it go.

[@robinwangai3303]

7Princess is another girl group with younger members. I'm talking 5 years old.

[@meimei]

eternity isn't as bad as long it is kept minimal, as we've seen how ai do today, but with myself growing up with vocaloid, mikumikudance, and now vtubers,

[@rosie_petals649]

Another controversial debut was Lana. She is a Russian solo idol. She debuted in. 2019 with "Take the wheel" she is from the Russian part belonging to Asia. She received lots of backlash and hate but continued on strong and even went on to compete in Produce Camp 2020 in China and is now currently promoting there but plans to comeback in Korea soon.

[@tuesdaywithjisoo8395]

The member of NTX with orange hair is wearing a kilt and I do have to admit they didn't research Scottish Culture at all because men's kilts look nothing like that. Also not all Scottish people have ginger hair. (I am Scottish btw)

[@Lauvendrr]

Honestly still dont get why people are mad there are some non-korean kpop groups out there. Kpop isnt reserved for Korean artist, which is what I think some people dont understand. Kpop is just korean pop, as in the language they are singing in is korean. The artist doesnt have to be korean to be an kpop idol. (I say this, but I admittedly still dislike Oli London for other reasons, so dont come after me please. I'm just stating my opinion)

[@georgieleigh6282]

EXP Edition actually improved so much

[@peachxtaehyung]

They're still active??

[@TheJrockfreak]

I actually really liked their music

[@TheJrockfreak]

@@peachxtaehyung last I heard one of them was on the show immortal song I think and they were hosting a radio show in Korea

[@mihaelabarlovic4139]

@@peachxtaehyung they said they want to make a comeback late last year

[@kakaphd3563]

@@peachxtaehyung yeah and their korean actually got good, proud of them

[@Murlescent]

im abig fan of your work baby!!!!!!!

[@robin_silas]

I was one of the people that were against EXP when they first came out cause it looked like they were just a group of foreigners trying to get in kpop cause suddenly was cool. But now that I know what were the producers intent with the group I understand that I was wrong. I understand the criticism that they "cheated the system" but to be fair the traditional korean training system just recruit asian or asian descendants.

[@someoldytaccount]

6:36 I think wearing other cultures' clothing is fine, as long as they don't change their skin tone or hair style to match those of the local peoples of the country they're representing. Judging from the songs name, 'Kiss The World' is innocent sounding and just wanting to spread love around the world; nothing culturally appropriating there. I think not using artificial products to change their looks, like make-up and spray tanners, should be basic considerations for everyone when wanting to dress-up in cultural clothes that aren't from their own culture. Instead of dividing everyone, we should promote multiculturalism and their traditions, and welcome all who want to experience something new, if and when worn correctly and without discrimination. On this point, wearing clothing or significant items in any form of consideration towards historical events of war and other crimes should not even be considered as an option. If even the country such events originate from express immense judgement upon their history, or don't even talk about them openly because of the stigma and suffering caused by them, then that should be a very clear indicator as to what not to do. In this case, such clothing isn't a part of a culture, but is used to represent a political opinion that has caused, and still causes, much terror.

[@yangyangdni]

as someone who isn't in the kpop community and just kinda found this channel eternity seems kinda cool? like sumn doesn't seem right about them but it's kind cool?

[@FishoeShoe_da_great]

about NXT's cultural appropriation: honestly, I feel like people are looking way more into things that they should. as long as they don't do disrespectful gestures or actions with the attire that could portray degrading stereotypes, i honestly see no problem. they didn't have any malicious motives, just like TWICE when they did a similar concept. everyone wants to be butthurt so bad and it shows

[@genevievecharlotte3005]

6:43 the member on the right is wearing a type of traditional indonesian clothing I think and it's not too bad

[@harajukuangels5943]

The one on the left or the right? The one on the left I believe is representing Arabia because of the stereotypical genie lamp. The one on the right is representing Scotland. (I’m not attacking, but I really want to know? Lol! 😂)

[@ckim3926]

Trying to interpret what K-pop is or not seems to add more questions instead of answers. I think the best to look at it, at least for me, is to view ALL the groups and artists in our world under one lens: Are they good or not? If they're good - enjoy their performances and support them. If they're bad - don't watch and leave them be.

[@rachelthehomosapiens]

Correction: Six Bomb’s ‘Becoming Prettier Before’ was a comeback, not a debut! Six Bomb debuted in 2012, but released ‘Becoming Prettier Before’ in 2017.

[@pd6805]

I think as long as you are signed under a Korean company you are kpop baki everything else just depends on your talent and also if you really want to make it big in Korea you have to speak Korean it's just a given rule which is same for all countries

[@GotInterest]

I think NTX’s concept was good, just executed in a way that didn’t consider how it would be received by people in certain parts of the world. Like none of the clothing was culturally sacred as far as I can tell, and from the examples I see it looks like there was an intent to respectfully present cultural dress. But for example, in America, seeing a non-black person wear a dashiki has some unfortunate connotations to it because that outfit isn’t just an outfit here, it’s got history and political meaning to it. I do think acknowledging fans around the world, and specifically acknowledging African fans is a nice idea though. But maybe a different tactic would have been better, like having them show off dances from different parts of the world, or pose with food from different parts of the world (that last one could have been really fun, especially if they put in a little research and didn’t just go with stereotypical food. Like they could go with s’mores for America and stuff like that)

[@lovejoyradio]

why did i squeal when i saw the clip of shax at the beginning lol? i am already obsessed with Imitation and can't wait for more.

[@GotInterest]

i feel like eternity would have been better received if it was a boy group or mixed gender group. Something about them being specifically A.I women feels a bit sleezy even if that wasn’t their intention. Also if they leaned a bit more into the A.I concept and got creative with the look of the videos I think it would feel better.

[@reyanime]

EXP mainly got hate from i-fans (typical). Most k-fans had no problem with them.

[@soggytomales893]

Exp edition is how I imagine nct Hollywood looking🤣

[@winsomniadreamcatcherandpi471]

Exactly

[@oscarwilde2082]

I love honey popcorn since their debut 😔

[@johnyoung9085]

As for Cookie, I don't understand the double standard here. Can you name any entertainment company that doesn't have trainees that are 12-13 (Twice Jihyo debuted at 18 years old after training 10 years you do the math)? What is the difference between the dark world of the Kpop trainee and the dark world of the Kpop idol? By law the companies have to offer education and have strict guidelines as to work hours, but I bet if you ask any trainee that started that young if they were guilted into training extra hours "on their own" many of them would say they have been. And I'm sure the dark unmentionable dangers are just as true for a trainee as they are for an active idol (as unpleasant as it is to think about). Why then, if a group is ready to perform on stage do we get into a fit because they are so young? It is the only entertainment industry that is that way; child actors are often praised for their hard work and talent, what is the difference?

[@paperlionkid1787]

Hello, Midnight Theories. I enjoyed the video.

[@putirivera4438]

i’d say the first boy group is not k-pop, even if this is an unpopular opinion. a) it’s poorly managed and not managed in the usual way a typical k-pop group is managed e.g. training period (espeically since they are non-koreans and are still learning korean when they were in the group), which means level of skill and competition are not up to par. if they were able to go through the usual kpop group training process WITH other koreans, then maybe. b) kpop is a sub genre of pop that specifies one type of asian pop. this space needs to be held in respect, and you have to realise it will be hard for koreans to relate to a kpop group with no korean members whatsoever. there is no point for a kpop group to consist of non-korean members because the global pop genre already has a lot of that. i can understand the criticism they are getting. although i do respect how they love korea, and they seem like nice people, i’d say they should not have happened. the kpop industry is a very competitive environment, and the fact that they were able to bypass that (it shows in the way they dance, at least from what i saw from the clips) doesn’t sit well with me. edit: spelling lol

[@feiiinatsuki8683]

Tbh younger girlgroup concept has been there before CooKie exists. Before them there's GP Basic and longggg before GP Basic there's a group called 7 Princess. 7 Princess youngest member at that time of their debut was only 5 years old.

[@adamsmoberly]

Wait, so white/black/non-Asian people can’t be kpop idols, but Thai, Chinese, Japanese, and other Asian people not from Korea can…..that sounds messed up. It should be learning the language a little and training, not where a person is from or how great or not they can speak the language. I obviously think speaking Korean should be a must, but if they don’t speak it to the point it’s native, does it really matter? We as fans love them, but I know most of us don’t understand Korean natively, but we can still enjoy them. So why can Koreans love members who maybe can’t speak their language 💯%? That just hate keeping. And also, why can Koreans butcher the English language (not how they say words, saying things that obviously are written by someone who doesn’t know English) and that fine? They are supposed to learn English, right? That’s part of training from what I recall hearing. Mostly I’m saying is let people who aren’t Asian try to be in kpop groups. Are mixed asians (they get a hard time, especially mixed Asians and black people; they are a dime a dozen.)

[@ChloeBx]

Fatou and Alex from Rania says hi

[@ELmayberry]

@@ChloeBx love Alex

[@Dooyos]

Ooo I love baby metal

[@ELmayberry]

yesss

[@elmin82]

Exp looks the male version of Kaachi