Controversy: Higher Belts vs. Lower Belts: The Tapping Debate

[@semperfortisjiujitsu]

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[@MrMZaccone]

Oftentimes, when I'm training with a lower belt, I'm deliberately putting myself in a bad position and I almost expect to be tapped. Sometimes I expect to be tapped repeatedly because I'm working what I call "last-ditch effort" techniques that are designed to get me out of the worst position but that I wouldn't even get the opportunity to practice unless I put myself there deliberately. I also like training with lower belts because sometimes they will try weird things that you wouldn't see from an advanced belt, but that you still need to train against. Practicing with them is more like working with someone off the street and you need to remember how that feels. It's too easy to forget that feeling if you only work with advanced belts.

[@cwatford748]

Totally agree. Great perspective in my opinion.

[@김천재-c9j]

that s what im doin too!

[@billbixby557]

Career white belt w four stripes over here - and I'm earned those damn stripes! Anywho... the part where you wrote about the unpredictability of lower belt / off the street folks is so on point and very important. When I first started training years ago, a friend of a friend, showed some general interest so we went to a local park and I went through to half dozen principles I thought i understood and then after that we agreed to roll. Everything started off pretty tame but at some point when he realized I was slowly getting the upper hand he reached for one of my hands and grabbed two or three of my fingers and started bending them in ways they don't go... for a split second I began to say, 'hey you can't do that' but then just as quickly I remembered hey this is a simulated fight, there are no rules in real life, except don't get stomped out. We finished the role and afterwards he expressed that he didn't do it out of malice he just saw it and went for it in a desperate situation. The info he gave me right there was just as priceless as the top-tier technical information I get from a John Danaher instructional video. You can't always expect the unexpected but when it happens you better be able to roll with it instead of saying 'time out I wasn't prepared'!

[@matsuwd-emethdaath4002]

Agree with everything posted on this subject here...I do the same with white belts...I just see what they will do n stay relaxed n try to react to their actions.

[@MacLethal]

I’m a purple belt. I hope I get tapped every single time I roll. Every time you get put in a bad position you get a tiny bit better. I hope white belts destroy me. Belt color is about time on the mat and personal growth. Go train.

[@semperfortisjiujitsu]

Absolutely the right attitude to have in my opinion.

[@overkill_716]

Got tapped by a blue that's been hunting a guillotine on me for like 6 months. He finally earned it and he was HYPED up lol. Was happy for him, he's been working hard at it

[@semperfortisjiujitsu]

I think that is the right attitude to have.

[@BTT72genX]

I am a 49 year old blue belt so this only slightly applies to me, but the idea of putting ego aside, and enjoying the journey can be a struggle at times. I have about 2.5 years of training 2-3 days a week under my belt. A few months ago I rolled with a 24 year old athletic white belt, who had about 6 months training experience. He tapped me 3 times in 4 rounds of 4 minutes. I really took a shot to the ego, and it took me a couple days to get over it. Once I accepted that it was just part of the learning experience it opened my game up a lot more. Now I gladly accept much younger white belts to roll with, and I see their ability to beat me as a challenge to myself to improve. I don’t hold it against them and I don’t let it ruin the joy I get from training.

[@DoggosAndJiuJitsu]

Absolutely. In my experience, a belt represents the probable outcome against a given skill group. A purple belt will likely submit or survive more often against a purple belt than a blue belt would. Additionally, higher belts (purple+) are developing more of their attacks and thus opening flaws that can be exploited by a skilled defensive player. I would imagine defense is often several stripes above offense until at least brown.

[@DomSum7]

Good mentality. That’s how I’ve always rolled. And it does light a positive fire under my butt do get better and to challenge them again to see how we’ve progressed.

[@semperfortisjiujitsu]

Look forward to seeing you soon. Glad to have you as part of our school.

[@NewsyNinja]

I so agree with you, I am 53 recently promoted to Brown belt, San Antonio Pinnacle Martial Arts, but I feel my style has to change from a less explosive to a more decisive methods. I train with the younger guys and although my mind says slow down, my heart refuses to show weakness. What I will do is acknowledge how they made me change the way I think and assess. I am generally stronger and faster than my opponents and training with those younger guys keeps my fire burning... Great video Professor!!

[@Rip_Ripple]

I'm the same way bro. I'm 50 and hopefully I'll make brown belt soon but more to your point, I'm 6'2" 220 lbs and I still can move with quickness but I only use that and my strength in bursts. I've changed the way I roll as well especially with the younger guys. Most of the time I let them burn themselves out then I play the smash game. 🤣. With my kneck issues I have to be sneaky sometimes. Old guys rule bro 🤙🏿🤙🏿🤙🏿🤙🏿🤙🏿🤙🏿🤙🏿🤙🏿

[@NewsyNinja]

@@Rip_Ripple I fully respect that approach, I had to wear one of those youngsters down last night, Respect the smash and pass game Ossssss!

[@Rip_Ripple]

@@NewsyNinja back at ya bro 🤙🏿

[@semperfortisjiujitsu]

Thanks my friend! Keep training, because most guys are age have given up strenuous athletic pursuits, so in my opinion you are a winner anytime you step on the mats to train.

[@isahicardenas]

Dang man I saw your gym a couple weeks ago when I went to SA for my first comp. Bad ass brother!

[@semperfortisjiujitsu]

Stop in and train with us next time you are in town. No mat fee.

[@ValleysOfSaturn]

A phenomenal video. Thank you so much! Last night I got finished by a white belt who has been training for less than a year... and I've been training for at least 5. I got him in very firm side position, and he managed to pull the buggy choke from the bottom position, and tap me out. The feeling was indescribable, like totally helpless... usually I don't have too much problems with accepting defeat and being submitted, but this? So... this video helped to cope with it!

[@zelipapa84]

It always hurts a bit but I'm sure you won't be caught in that any time soon now

[@georgevancil7032]

awesome message brother. Father Time is moving faster than me and sometime my jiu jitsu works and sometimes it needs more work. Thanks for keeping it real

[@semperfortisjiujitsu]

Good to hear from you George! Father Time catches us all!

[@PrescottCaliberClub]

Great video man! I agree with this. I have caught a blue belt before, it doesn’t happen often but it happens here or there. Our gym really feels that we all grow together and if you can just beat everyone you’re not going to continue to grow. Thank you as always Sir!

[@semperfortisjiujitsu]

Exactly! You are in a great place my friend!

[@ktkl68]

Yeah of course. I get tapped by lower belts especially during competition sparring classes. Trying new techniques open myself up. Plus, more active competitor who is say a blue belt will light up not so competitive higher belts.

[@howtonetworkcom]

Thanks for this. Wise words.

[@semperfortisjiujitsu]

Thanks my friend.

[@brazilianjiujitsuincorporated]

Spot on brother Well said 👏👌🙏✌

[@MrMZaccone]

As for being able to tap out your coach, sometimes what you need from a coach is just experience and the ability to see you from the outside or in another way you can't. Sometimes your coach is just a kind of "mirror" that lets you see yourself in a way you otherwise wouldn't be able to without their experience.

[@TheChiefSteel]

I'm a 49 year old Purple Belt. I roll with everyone. And we have alot of talented young guys at lower belts. Alot of the other older purple belts stay away from them in my gym. I think they are missing out. I always try to learn different things, unusual things. So it doesn't bother me if a 23 year old blue belt catches me with something. Couldn't care less. Plus I typically learn a submission the best when it gets performed on me.

[@semperfortisjiujitsu]

I think that is a great attitude.

[@msifu81h43]

love jiu jitsu more than winning ..SBG

[@roelescamilla6022]

Another great video and message my friend.

[@semperfortisjiujitsu]

Thanks for asking this week's question of the week. Always good to hear from you my friend.

[@randallcharles1061]

Humility ❤️. Learning everyday 🙏🏽

[@P12ooF]

Sometimes I get tapped by everybody. Sometimes it feels like I can tap anybody. Juijitsu: sometimes your the hammer. Sometimes your the nail. The belt and color really mean nothing but experience... but expierice doesn't always make you win...

[@zelipapa84]

Wise words coach, I agree with most of what was said here

[@Karen-fs6lf]

In judo I get caught sometimes on my feet or on the ground when trying I have learned from that and I am a black belt great advice for people

[@semperfortisjiujitsu]

Thanks!

[@amnfox]

I've had escapes I just saw instagram and I've wanted to get in that position to attempt the technique.

[@stav1369]

Belts in BJJ are not a tiered system of who will always win. A belt is a sign of dedication, experience knowledge and personal growth. Nothing comes for free in BJJ, everything is earned but not all athletes are equal. I love using this football analogy to drive home my point. A 17 year old Pele would run rings around already better then most professional footballers across the globe even though they on average had far more experience. Yes this is an extreme example but the difference in athletic prowess between individuals and how fast you learn always varies.

[@mitchelleiannadres4416]

Thank you for this great video. Definitely puts me back on the right track.

[@semperfortisjiujitsu]

Glad to hear that my friend. Thanks for watching!

[@P12ooF]

Shit... I, a purple belt, got tapped by a white belt. Apparently the dude was a catch wrestler though. Belt color really doesn't matter... just roll. Also everyone stays away from the white belts that want to prove they are the strongest. Im not trying to get injured trying to keep up with a kid going 1000%

[@bblack2015ab]

Don't worry about belts, just train

[@stompnucustoms2616]

Hard to believe on of my best friends is yoda! Love ya man!

[@semperfortisjiujitsu]

Thanks Stomp!

[@jdgarza6248]

Very helpful thank you!

[@semperfortisjiujitsu]

Thanks! Congratulations on your last superfight!

[@jdgarza6248]

@@semperfortisjiujitsu yes thank you!

[@saintoflastresorts2272]

Like in everything context is king. A coach decides ultimately who gets a belt but imo a coach should communicate what he sees needs to be worked on by the student. I had a great takedown and top game, everything brown and down was fair game but spent a lot of unnecessary time in white belt because of lack of communication from the coach as far as developing my bottom game even after asking him point blank what I needed to work on. Maybe he thought I should be figuring it out on my own but if that's true I don't need a coach, everyone is a coach to a certain extent. So I refused my promotion and left the gym and found a new gym with a coach that communicates. Long story short the higher belts normally worked disadvantage positions meaning the will let go of a submission to work progressions or chains. For more context I am 6'3 275 and used to wrestle for 3 years.

[@isaiahwilliams7502]

I’m a white belt but I’ll humbly say I can survive and compete against most higher belts. It’s training. Anyone can tap anyone. We’re there to get better.

[@joeyp6056]

Bless Up! Great advice

[@jlogan2228]

I get tapped or eat a strike from my students all the time. id be a crappy teacher if my ego was that fragile. if your student is able to take openings, set up counters, or make a technique work then they are doing exactly what i want to see from them: getting better. Most students also will get discouraged very quickly if you are always steam rolling them

[@TonyFernandezjkdjedi]

I'm 55 and constantly get tapped by younger belts.. So what.

[@semperfortisjiujitsu]

I agree! Just enjoy training and whatever happens in a roll just learn from and be happy for your teammates.

[@stevenroberts7256]

There are also people who are naturally better mentally and physically at the fight/rolling/sparring game or have additional non BJJ experience that will put them at a different level sparing than the traditional hierarchy in a certain school. Higher belts don't just lose because they choose to, that is a flaw that will certainly catch up with you.

[@semperfortisjiujitsu]

Brazilian Jiu Jitsu techniques work and sometimes a lower belted person can lock on a submission and the higher belts will have to tap.

[@mr.dephiant9713]

Very interesting...I'm on the other side of the coin....I'm a white belt & rolled with blue, & purple belts...both whom I made them tap...however, I understand that is as you said, training...nothing else. Thank you, OSS!

[@Nethezbet]

I find that senior belts RARELY make me tap, they are very clearly trying new things, or they get to a point that they clearly won, but then transition through to something else. I'm lucky to train with so many people that have nothing to prove. But when you train that way, you also open yourself up to getting tapped because you aren't going that hard and the junior will often be trying much harder. Those guys would destroy me if we went full out, lol

[@semperfortisjiujitsu]

I agree

[@ujimin5510]

Hi! I'm hoping to come try out your class in June or July for the first time and I'm really excited is there any necessary gear I should try to get before my first class?

[@semperfortisjiujitsu]

I created a video a couple of months ago describing our free one month trial kzbin.info/www/bejne/aqjdm3yFh7OAfs0. Check out the video and let me know if you have any questions. Look forward to meeting and training with you.

[@ujimin5510]

@@semperfortisjiujitsu Thanks I look forward to meeting you as well!

[@casualmma1131]

@@ujimin5510 how’s it going?

[@ujimin5510]

@@casualmma1131 It's a good place, I went for about 7 months but unfortunately I had to quit because I was too busy. I would highly recommend it though!

[@williamsmith8790]

“Shouldina, but didina…” - Cletus the Slack Jawed Yokel. It happens.

[@Guywithair2]

Thanks for the video. I roll in south Texas area.

[@semperfortisjiujitsu]

You are welcome! Thanks for watching.

[@gregmayhew6058]

I agree 100%

[@rogerromo2674]

It's Jiu-Jitsu it doesn't matter if you're a white belt a black belt or red belt the important thing is that we learn train and have fun with the sport that we love it doesn't matter what belt a practitioner is the important this you never stop learning.oss

[@semperfortisjiujitsu]

Absolutely!

[@stephenwestergom9620]

When I train I try to roll around the same level of the person I'm training with. I'm a brown belt.

[@PauloBerni699]

Well, if your 59 years old and small, good luck never getting tapped by a highly competitive purple belt who is 30 years younger, bigger and very athletic. I don’t get tapped by lower belts very often, but there’s a select few I train with regularly who may catch me with a rolling calf cutter or slap an ankle lock out of no where. I rarely get strangled though. I train about four times a week and roll with everyone regardless of age, rank, weight or skill reputation, and we get a lot of visitors, so I’m “Rolling the dice” you could say, all the time.

[@semperfortisjiujitsu]

I think the key is enjoying training and not worrying about who taps who. The only time I am worried about winning is in street fights and tournaments. Keep training my friend you are an inspiration at 59.

[@PauloBerni699]

@@semperfortisjiujitsu Thank you but there’s three other black belts in my city in their early 60’s now who I draw my own inspiration from. Supplements, no alcohol, very low insulin and inflammation producing foods, high protein, lots of greens -and prayers help a great deal. No TRT; I’m milking the pull-ups, dips and squats for all they’re worth 😅

[@edwardkaeser2533]

Ask the guy who taps out Gordon Ryan or Garry Tonin 8 times at practice. It's not a fight it's not a match( interview with both by Bernardo.....)

[@semperfortisjiujitsu]

Exactly!

[@JoshTheGrappler]

Live to roll another roll 😁

[@10Sethg]

Yes

[@kimuradon]

Exactly.

[@artvandelay2591]

I see a lot of black belts shy away from rolling with everyone at class (bigger guys, young killer purples/browns) because they are so afraid to get tapped as a black belt. Especially instructors.

[@halepp2860]

Your at the wrong gym then lol

[@artvandelay2591]

A lot of black belts get there black belt and then basically stop training.

[@artvandelay2591]

@@halepp2860 where do you train?

[@aplacetobewithmythoughts7428]

If both of you are going 100% (training or competition - not "working position") - There are 16 year old blue belts training to be world champions who have been training for 10 years and can tap out most black belts. The earlier you accept this - the better. But yes training is training. A tap means nothing. It's in tournament where it counts.

[@hubster4477]

Thats a good attitude, but just because somebody has more time at something doesnt make them better. How many older more experienced guys were better than a young Ali, bo jackson, jordan, etc.

[@semperfortisjiujitsu]

Fair enough! Talent is a factor if the work ethic is the same, but a less talented athlete or competitor can defeat a more talented one if the talented one does not work hard.

[@BJJmaestro]

Long story short: yes

[@thurmangreen676]

Yes. So people realize belt ranks are overrated , plus higher belts need to recognize what their weaknesses are and if a lower belt catch them with that flaw when they compete against equal level or higher that weaknesses will be revealed

[@littlethuggie]

The Patriots shouldn't lose to the Dolphins on a series of laterals, but they did.

[@SmileBro12]

Im also part of a Luis Pallahares affiliate school

[@semperfortisjiujitsu]

Thanks for sharing. Always good to hear from a teammate.

[@thejourney9415]

I just got my blue belt and I told my friend who also got his b lue belt with me that we're now targets for white belts lol. We both laughed and we both agreed there are some dangerous white belts out there who deserve their blues before us. That being said, if you aren't comfortable putting yourself in a bad situation in fear of being tapped jiujitsu was never your game.

[@markuslepisto7824]

Well ego doesn't mean anything..🤷‍♂️

[@semperfortisjiujitsu]

Should not be a factor, but for many BJJ practitioners it is.

[@chadprey9067]

Leave the ego at the door

[@DR-jz1es]

I like this concept but there's high belts who have giant chips on their shoulders and tell you to not do something like.going full blast every roll but, in turn they go full blast . Or if you're going to hard and pass guard say, we'll all of sudden they are slamming you , hitting Neck cranks and other dick moves that only happened because you struck their egos. It's one sided because as white and blues you are surviving man and the higher belts don't follow the same rules. Just my rant / opinion.

[@semperfortisjiujitsu]

There are good and bad people in all walks of life. Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is no exception to having people like that.

[@78logistics]

Father time lol I am 65.

[@semperfortisjiujitsu]

I am 56 and have felt the natural and inevitable effects of aging. I hope to still be training in my 70s and 80s. Thanks for watching!

[@redlawton8896]

I wanna be the most dangerous white-belt

[@semperfortisjiujitsu]

Me too!

[@sakethief9365]

If you suck you suck. Belt colors are kinda archaic at this point. What was it like 2 years ago some blue belt one his ADCC division?

[@halepp2860]

If you start at say age 5 and do the 3 years as a Grey and 3 as yellow, 3 as orange, 3 as a green. Then get your blue belt at age 15-16 . In a scenario like that then the blue belt is a black belt

[@semperfortisjiujitsu]

Belt colors are more than who is the best fighter. People should be promoted based on knowledge of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and ability to apply the knowledge.

[@sakethief9365]

@@semperfortisjiujitsu That’s the dumbest thing I’ve heard all week

[@semperfortisjiujitsu]

@@sakethief9365 good luck on your BJJ journey or whatever art you decide to practice.