Convex vs Scandi Grind Bushcraft Knives

[@MidwestPrepper]

Thanks for taking the time to do this

[@johnsmithfakename8422]

I am not a fan of Scandi grind knives. I know they work but I prefer geometry, specifically a knife that is thin behind the edge. My ideal grind is a high sabre grind that is thin behind the edge. My favorite knife is thin behind the edge, and I think it has a 25 degree V edge (I said I think, because I have yet to sharpen it, only stropped it).

[@SCQT]

Interesting I have the exact opposite experience. Scandi wants to dive, and convex glides When feathering, if you think of the blade as a lever, with convex your fulcrum is just behind the edge, where with the scandi it is at the top of the primary. You have a much higher mechanical advantage over the edge that way. Obviously these forces are not huge, so its fairly easily overcome. But im also the opposite of you, i use almost exclusively convex and rarely use scandi. So much of the difference is probably down to technique.

[@MaximusArurealius]

It just doesn't make a hill of beans of difference. I have been using knives since I was in the sixth grade washing dishes in my dad's restaurant. The cook taught me how to sharpen it. I am now a retired professional outdoorsman and that was 70 years ago. I say pick a variety of knives of good quality that you like and like the feel of. Go with that and you'll be fine.

[@timhallas4275]

I believe this was more a test of your knife skills that of the knife designs themselves. Everyone has their preference because everyone has their skill limits. From what I've seen, the most experienced users of dedicated bushcraft knives tend to carry and prefer the performance qualities of a thick blade with convex bevels. They must know something. While any sharp knife will shave a stick, accuracy and consistence of thickness requires a controllable edge.

[@dannyleonidas4328]

Not true! Most are carrying Scandinavian grinds

[@MegaWoodswalker]

Jeff White makes for some nice knives. I find the edge of the convex more resistant to chipping but scandi is nice for working with wood.

[@cmcclellan9721]

@ MegaWoodswalker I got two of Jeff white's knives and I love 'em. Having said that, I'm changing the profile of one from Convex to Scandi. THEN I'll have the best of both worlds (for me)!

[@ozinga614]

Scandivex problem solved.

[@estima8tor1]

Agreed. My favorite grind of them all.

[@nicholasallan9248]

Amen

[@SCQT]

preach take it a step further and go sabervex get er nice and thin

[@csh6220]

The reason most manufacturer's make scandi, saber, of flat grind knives is because a machine makes the bevel. A convex grind has to be done by hand, by someone who knows what they are doing. That is why Bark River knives are expensive - labor intensive. I believe a convex grind is hands down the strongest, sharpest grind there is. Sharpening takes just a strop and is so easy. Thanks for another great topic!

[@e-vd]

Sharpness and strength are mutually exclusive qualities of a blade. For example, a razor is a very sharp blade; while an an axe is not as sharp, but very strong. A convex blade is like the axe of knife blade grinds: great for chopping, but not ideal for slicing. The variety of blades available goes to show that they all have pros & cons.

[@hudsonhornet6558]

I mean you also just put the blade on a belt sander without a back and the belt will sag a little bit when pressure is applied creating a convex grind so it’s not necessary completely done by hand but I do agree it’s stronger and better in many ways

[@I_Might_B_Wrong]

At the same edge angle, convex has less steel behind the edge than a flat grind. I'll put it this way - If you take a flat grind with a secondary edge grind and you want to make it a convex edge, you don't even need to touch the edge, you just need to remove the corner created by the secondary edge bevel. You'd remove metal to make it convex with the same edge angle, meaning the flat grind with secondary edge bevel had more steel behind the edge than an equivalent convex edge. The "convex is stronger" thing is a myth. Given the same edge angle and same blade thickness, this also extends to Scandi vs Convex. They would both be very similar except that the scandi would have a sharp transition up the blade, but the scandi would also maintain full stock thickness for more of the blade making it the more durable blade design. They just happen to usually be used with thinner stock since this allows them to cut better. You can prove all this to yourself with Microsoft paint, or a piece of paper and a pencil, by drawing a representation of a scandi blade and then drawing a convex blade inside of the scandi drawing, showing that you would literally just be removing more steel to give it a convex shape instead of a scandi. This is not to say I don't also LOVE convex, but I don't love it for strength. I love convex for it's smooth cutting performance and lack of drag/snag going through wood.

[@37south47]

I would say the point you made about using a scandi more is pretty accurate. If you used the convex more it would probably have been the one that felt better. In my mind tho it comes down to which grind is easier to maintain and keep sharp, especially in the field.

[@ThePreparedWanderer]

+37South for sure!

[@JohnPalermo1972]

May I add that you say Scandi grinds are popular in Europe. Scandinavia does not all of Europe make. Convex are quite popular in other parts of Europe. Let’s be truthful. Scandis are easy to grind by machine. Convex are not easy to grind. That is, in my opinion, why Scandi have gained popularity in North America as they are easy to grind and easy to make sharp. I have several knives. All are Scandi except one. The exception is my only convex. For fine wood working like making feather sticks, I prefer the convex. Also prefer it for cutting my meat, debarking, cutting notches, and making spikes. Just my preference. Scandi is great for splitting.

[@danhold1]

nice job i have the 140 mm from verusteleka

[@ThePreparedWanderer]

+danhold1 Holdcroftski thanks!

[@13bravoredleg18]

danhold1 Holdcroftski I also have the 140. If you want a good replacement leather sheath, use the Ka-Bar "short".They are very cheap and they last!

[@bossmodus5020]

the Real Skandi is Skandivex 👈 Convex is King

[@Midas8610]

Alex Hafner you will add a microbevel just with stropping a scandi anyway.

[@mikesharratt5816]

I agree that a scandi is the best for making curls and feather sticks. But, scandi is not good for food prep (slicing), and for that reason I do not carry scandi grind knives.

[@stgeorge6947]

James Ritchie Scandinavian and a hatchet works best but tacticool ppl don't like that. They want one knife to do it all. Most of the time they have never tried a scandi

[@seanoindaugherty308]

The "0 scandi" have the largest shoulders out of all the grinds and split more than they slice. Cutting food is not a breeze in my experience, nor enjoyable, with a modern scandi grind, or even a scandivex grind. Just because people in Scandinavia do it doesn't mean there aren't better grinds for food prep

[@BaadMotorFinger]

Who the hell is making gourmet dishes out in the woods anyways, slicing tomatoes and shit

[@S.Vallieres]

It's much much more a matter of sharpness (apex thickness, which is on the order of 1 micron or less for very high sharpness), edge angle and edge thickness (how thick it is right behind the aforementioned edge angle) rather than grind type. Scandi are often at about 11 dps while most other grinds have a secondary bevel at about 20 dps. Even convex ones which don't have a secondary bevel see their angle increasing when getting closer to the edge to a point they are also often at around 20 dps. So when people use scandi, observe they cut better and conclude this is because they are scandi, in reality they are not comparing scandi vs other grinds, they are comparing 11 dps with 20 dps and of course 11 dps cuts better than 20 dps! So this is not because they are scandi they cut better, it's because their edge is at 11 dps. They make a good observation (11 dps cuts better) but draw a wrong conclusion (they cut better because they are scandi). Take a flat grind knife with an edge thickness of about 0.012" and apply a 11 dps edge bevel on it and see how much better it cuts in comparison to any scandis; you'll never be back to those cheap single bevel/scandi knives again...

[@joekelly9369]

Scandi is crap , unless your into feather sticks oh and feather sticks , i used one for 8 months in the wild , i threw it when i got back , for all round knives outdoors get a good convex hunter , or a convex bushcraft knife , my scandi was useless with anything other than light woodwork , i was almost pulling my hair out cutting fish up and meat , im sure some of you guys have been there WELL they must be good if Ray Mears uses them ( BIIIIIG MISTAKE) i got more done with my strait razor , literally cut meat n fish with it several times a week for 8 months , i used my scandi grind knife for attacking tinned food when i could get it , about all it was any good at ,

[@X_explorer]

Amazing vid! I like observing nature, discover and calm down...

[@kan-zee]

If it cuts well ....I don't worry about the grind type..LOL

[@estima8tor1]

After years of hand sharpening and stropping, my condor bushlore has developed a scandi-vex edge which I actually prefer. The scandi-vex creates a stronger edge and improves the edge retention on the softer 1075 steel. It still performs great for all the woodworking task that I do. I don't own any true convex knives but I do love how the scandi-vex grind performs.

[@jackchueh1231]

estima8tor1 I sanded down the shoulders of my bushlore to make it more convex... big mistake... now it doesn’t have the old bite carving wood because it does not lay at such a steep angle. It does slice better though. I guess there is no perfect knife for each task.

[@hudsonhornet6558]

A very slight convex edge really is the best you don’t want an aggressive convex obviously and the a Scandi just seems to strait to work well with natural materials or something

[@a_mustache_of_great_repute]

The scandi grind makes better curls for the same reason a butter knife curls a butter pat

[@wallyceiphert4599]

Agree with 37South, but additionally it may also be individuals preference. As in the simple way each one of us learns as we go. The way the knife is held for each individual & the way they apply pressure in use each grind may feel or preform different for that person. Without a doubt, those are the 2 better grinds for the "smaller more delicate/precise" tasks. May all come don to what one gets acquainted with/to. I've never tried the quick "woodpecker" style to get curls, Interesting !!

[@larrycater-tx613]

The convex edge may be a little too thick. Take it down to a little thinner convex edge. I have a Jeff White knife. I worked the edge down thinner. It’s a good knife.

[@hudsonhornet6558]

I feel like the Scandinavian seemed to be better at like a feather sticking type application but sticks a lot more and the convex seemed to just shave off really nice shavings but rarely got stuck just what I seen

[@thejewishredneckprepper4675]

Great video. Shalom

[@havocdevelopment6142]

that 1095 convex looks like shit. Get a brk

[@jamesmontgomery2795]

From what I saw the convex made shavings not really curls. Convex grind is great for splitting not so much for finer woodcraft. Your comparing apples and oranges

[@dsminwf1]

I really can’t see how this is a very scientific test. Nothing has been proven here!

[@2ndchancegeorge]

Have a question for you, Whats the difference between and Bushcraft knife and a "camp knife" or is there a difference? Thanks

[@ThePreparedWanderer]

Traditionally a camp knife is a bigger blade but the terms have become interchangeable

[@2ndchancegeorge]

@@ThePreparedWanderer aha!. Ok I am reading up about knives and grinds etc. My knowledge is miserable..lol. that question came up. It seems that alot if "things" in camp/ bushcraft are becoming more interchangeable. I have certainly noticed the difference in blade size. Now I gotta read up why......lol...just digging a hole for myself. Thanks for quick reply 👍👍

[@silvanigra]

It makes sense, the convex is "fatter", thus it needs to be angled wider against the wood surface, that's why it bites deeper instead of sliding almost parallel to the wood surface. That's why I prefer a flat or hollow grind for this type of work - they both allow the blade to be positioned closer to the wood.

[@ThomasShue]

I bet keeping that convex grind sharp is a PITA

[@SCQT]

I really dont understand where this myth comes from and why its constantly gets repeated. Not saying that you dont, but in my experience a vast majority of the people that say its hard to sharpen dont even own one, and are afraid to because people keep saying that. I find convex by far the easiest grind to maintain in the field. Strop/foam + sandpaper/micromesh + an evening to learn the motion, and you have a strong sharp edge that is incredibly easy to maintain anywhere, and rarely needs it. Shrug

[@chrisbird4913]

The convex grind is difficult to mass produce, it generally needs to be done by hand, this can be achived via CNC with some advanced precision machines but still needs to be finished by hand. This just raises the price point beyond the reasonable purchasing power of most bushcrafters. In short, skandi give a good price to proformance ratio.

[@derrickp]

I find a scandi grind the best all around knife for me. But I agree whichever grind you like and use the most will feel the most natural for you.

[@derrickp]

James Ritchie naw scandi grind just feels right

[@Midas8610]

James Ritchie i carry both types of grinds when im in the bush. IMO the scandi blade is a little more delicate than my reprofiled convexed gerber strongarm... that one i use for beating up lol. i do all my carving and slicing with a pocketknife, which is a scandi grind. good and sharp both of them, but each has its role amd so does my axe... i can featherstick with both my knives and axe, but each tool has its primary role. as you say, each grind is better at something.

[@scottsmith6571]

I ordered a master woodsman what do you think abt those ... love my mora bushman

[@GravityRoller]

Few comments: The difference in handle offset (two options illustrated) of that JW (handle trailing vs. even with cutting edge) is a significant factor (leverage of edge to hand pressure much greater with trailing handle). Seems erroneous that your scandi geometries have secondary bevels as that geometry (segmented or progressive bevel - scandi-primary/secondary) in use is somewhat comparable to a convex (especially after stropping) vs a true scandi bevel to the edge. (I prefer single bevel scandi, or just make it a saber-grind.) Selection of wood for comparison appears to have hindered feathering (knots at midpoint of wood). Greatly reduced length of stroke (by half). I am not being critical, merely some thought points in reflection for folks to consider. Regards,

[@jonNH123]

This is very helpful: thank you!!

[@paulie4x1]

Say Heah, Yeah, I recently had a Bushcraft/Wilderness Knife made, Infact I had a matching set made. Anyhow, on my Paul'ies Pride, I had William Collins put a Blended Vex Grind on it, apsolutly no regrets. It's a scalpel, I did post them on my Google Plus. Dilly, Dilly.,,.p

[@katetoothwentworth]

Hey Wendell - Kate here! Glad I finally found you on KZbin!!

[@MaNi-cn7to]

Thx for the vid! Looking for Bush my self, after lots of videos and reviews i realy think Bush one is a better choice.

[@EdgewoodOutdoors]

Just stumbled on your channel... great topic. I like the scandi. Hard to sharpen the convex with consistency! Great explanation...

[@Grimm-14]

I have both of those "scandi" knives but they came with a secondary bevel. Did ya take the secondary off? I did with my Terava Puukko, and find that I have to keep slightly vexing the edge so it won't fold. Like vids like these tho, should make another with some zeroed scandis.

[@bobbismithss4913]

Scandi grind is hype,that's all

[@ScottRauber]

Love making shavings myself! You might try the piece of wood at less of an angle, from what I see you are almost scooping down, not lightly skinning the wood. I think I lean over the wood and slice down while the wood is almost at a 90 degree angle.

[@marodriguezsr]

Very informative video. I have both & I tend to convex a lot of my knives just because it works for me. I do believe that my Buck 119's & 110's I also do not/have not convexed as well as my Moras or my PFK Bushcrafter, other than those yes most/the rest of my other knives I have convexed. Thanks for all of the videos you share with us, take care & keep enjoying the great out of doors. - Marco

[@joesanders6898]

Good comparison. Good info. I'm still sold on the Condor Bushlore. But price means a lot to me.

[@nickhdeep6leatherworks338]

Good comparison video. I am ordering a Jeff White knife this weekend.

[@markjg2275]

I own many knives mostly flat grind and Saber grinds from LT wright ,However I am starting to like Scandi grinds the most because of the ease of sharpening in the field. Sharpening Saber grinds in the field on a DMT Diafold or Fallkniven DC 4 is not a easy task finding that angle to sharpen both sides evenly to a sharp edge. The Scandi is so easy to work with , and I found it still works very well in food prep slicing bread and vegetables and can gut fish too. And no other grind I used works as good as a Scandi for wood , my LT Wright GNS Scandi just slices off tree branches like nothing else a real razor , therefore I decided to sell some of my Saber grind knives and replace some with more Scandi blades of different lengths smaller blades for more intricate wood work. I had two Convex blades from Bark river but I hate convex due to the special needs in sharpening in the field the mouse pad and sandpaper and leather strop , too much hassle . In my opinion the Scandi is the best for me at least, for all around ease of use.

[@prestonscott5367]

I use a Gransfors Bruks axe puck 2”x2” 200x600 grit, 2 slipstones from Dan’s Whetstone Company (fine, and ultrafine) and a 2oz bottle of catco honing oil. (All of it cost me $100) That’s my kit for sharpening my $330 dollar Bark River. $160 gransfors, and my buddy’s $80 Enzo Elver. It’s a very small amount of equipment, but it will get you through all stages of sharpening. I use little circles, while pivoting the wrist, and that matches the curvature of the convex grind. For sharpening a scandi, it will become a little convex-ish, just because you can’t freehand sharpen something perfectly flat.

[@SCQT]

i dont understand how a strop(which you likely already have), and a piece of sandpaper is too much hassle haha I do agree that saber V type grinds are harder to get a really good edge on in the field, but i find convex by far the easiest to maintain. One of the main reasons i prefer them. Scandis are great too, and easy to get a good edge on(though i would wager a very small % of people actually keep a true 0 scandi past their first sharpening), but i prefer them as more of a narrow focus wood working knife

[@timbo4374]

The knife grind you have used the most will be the one that works best for you because you've developed your skills and muscle memory with that grind, so switching to a different grind takes getting used to. I have several knives in both grinds, and enjoy both, but if I've been carrying one more recently, say a convex for awhile, I have to get used to the scandi all over again. It doesn't take long, a minute or 2, but when I first pick it up, it feels weird to me because I've carried the convex grinds more recently, and of course, vice versa. It really comes down to personal preference and what you do most with your knives as to which grind is best. They all have both advantages and disadvantages, but once you get used to a grind, it tends to be the one you reach for the most.

[@snaponjohn100]

Amen

[@greekveteran2715]

Only the Mora was scandi grind, the Terava Jaakari puukko's grind can be called with many names, like low saber, double bevel. That's because scandi edges don't have secondery "V" edges, they are true zero edge grinds. The 3d knife, looks to be a scandi/vex or scandi with a convex edge bevel. Convex blades, curve from spine to the edge "Bark Rivers" is a popular example. Fallkniven F1 is another good example.

[@csh6220]

The puucko is a Tops BOB with a different handle.

[@spoke1183]

convex pain in ass to sharpen

[@SCQT]

I really dont understand where this myth comes from and why its constantly gets repeated. Not saying that you dont, but in my experience a vast majority of the people that say its hard to sharpen dont own one, and are afraid to because people keep saying that. I find convex by far the easiest grind to maintain in the field. Strop/foam + sandpaper/micromesh + an evening to learn the motion, and you have a strong sharp edge that is incredibly easy to maintain anywhere, and rarely needs it. Shrug