Can Game Mechanics Be Art?

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Timestamps:
0:00 - The Thriller Cut
2:00 - Video Games Can Never Be Art
3:14 - The Game in Games
5:26 - Naughty Dog Killing
7:43 - How to Beat Windows XP
10:09 - Dark Souls' Soul
11:53 - Playing Art
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Sources:
Are Horr Movies Bad for Your Mental Health?: www.healthline.com/health/how...
US Film Registry: www.loc.gov/programs/national...
Video Game Can Never Be Art: www.rogerebert.com/roger-eber...
Video Games as a Protected Form of Expression: uknowledge.uky.edu/cgi/viewco...
1993 Violent Video Game Congressional Hearing: • Video
How to Avoid Killing Dogs: www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/...
Last of Us 2 Dog Killing Optional: gamerant.com/last-of-us-2-dog...
Last of Us 2 Accessibility options: blog.playstation.com/2020/06/...
Peter Morville UX Honeycomb: semanticstudios.com/user_expe...
UX Honeycomb Usablitiy: / the-ux-honeycomb-seven...
Dynamic Difficulty Adjustment on Game Theorists: • Game Theory: Hard Mode...
Dark Souls 3 and Uncharted 4 completion rate: metro.co.uk/2017/11/25/why-is...
Shining Happy Trailer: • The Shining Recut
Okay kids, play on my lawn: www.rogerebert.com/roger-eber...
Apology for bad game review: n4g.com/news/96319/dean-takah...
BGM in order:
Fatal Frame 2 - Villagers
Silent Hill 2 - Heaven's Night
R83AISEFDWHHERWU
Marvel vs Capcom 2 - Clocktower
Mega Man X - Sigma Fortress 1
Street Fighter III: 2nd Impact - Alex Stage
Tekken 4 - Authentic Sky
Dark Souls - Firelink Shrine
Rising Thunder - Edge Theme
Gerald Lee - Dreamland

[@CoreAGaming]

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Q

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Topped up for another two years. Thanks Gerald 🙏🏾

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Kill hundreds of humans: 🥰🥰🥰 Kill one dog: 😭😡😫

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This guy can literally talks about why a chair is called a chair and i'd still watch it even if it takes 1 hour. Great writing, keep it up Core-A.

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EXACTLY i’m 100% with you! core is a true essayist and great delivery 📦

[@7xPlayer]

That's was actually a Vsauce video lol.

[@roboman]

@@7xPlayer true

[@JonathanJustin_Live]

@@7xPlayer no way lol i’m watching this now

[@QuartzIsAnOxide]

Can you find a definition for a chair that encompasses all chairs but excludes all non-chair objects?

[@justicehudson7731]

This man and his work are the living representation of quality over quantity

[@RealLaone]

Don't even remember when was the last time I've seen s video from this channel. Its art.

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Reason why I’m patient with these uploads. Also bcuz I’m busy with other great channels. 😅

[@CommunitySkratch]

Facts

[@amirgamil]

So true!

[@xephondp]

can we be grateful how he put ads at the end and not mid-video or beginning as others do? he is a legend

[@AlluMan96]

To me, this whole "Are games art" conversation is one I've always found rather pointless, because arguing about "the defenition of art" in general is an excercise in frustration and futility. Art truly is the most frustrating word, because it's one of those words without a real definition. Not because you can't find a definition, but because people will argue it and disagree with it. It makes sense. Given that most will agree that art is about eliciting emotions, it's something being governed by such an esoteric part of our heads. Arguing Roger Ebert's claim is annoying, because who's to say we're even talking about the same thing strictly speaking and who's to say anyone that's listening to the argument is hearing an argument about the same thing either one of us is talking about? For me, I've always broken art down to the most basic of definitions. It's finding a creative way to convey an idea or feeling to someone. It's a lax definition that doesn't exclude almost anything. If you say you want it to be called art, I'll call it that. To me, a board game like Monopoly is art. Both it and it's likened The Landlord's Game was designed with the intent of conveying the unjust side of capitalism and it does a good job. It uses interactivity to let people feel exactly how unfair their situation truly is and the fact that another person is doing it to you with intent nails that point home. In my definition, even a conversation can be seen as a form of art. Finding the right words to most accurately convey how you feel and think, as well as the ability to receive that information and build upon it with retort is undenyably a skillful, creative expression. I define art like this not because I don't have a passion for art and just don't care one way or the other, but quite the opposite in fact. By removing this arbiturary restriction of what I can see as art, I'm more receptive to experience someone's creative work and appreciate it's qualities. Might not be the most useful mentality for a critic like Ebert, but this is where we loop back around to the "This conversation is frustrating" point.

[@matthewwynn3025]

Wow, I couldn't agree more. It's humorous to see how similar your thinking is to my own. Who cares if it's art or not, just do. Worrying about that stuff just stifles your creativity, sometimes it's best to just let go and let it flow from your mind without giving a damn.

[@8bitdiedie]

I think I see it a similar way, though I’d say “experience” as well as “idea” or “feeling”. And in that sense, yeah, I totally think rollercoaster rides are an art form.

[@nicholaslornadek8234]

You are right. I too think it's a bad question to ask. First of all, art is not a question of what, but it's a question of how and why. Art works through affects, not on analytical that can correctly identify what is and what is not art. And this is ever more true in the death of the author era (with the peace of analytical philosophers who think that the author is still the only way through which you can experience art). Then you should talk about art as a system and as production, you should consider Adorno and Horkenheimer Dialectic of Enlightment and what they actually say about capitalism and the staleness it produces in art and with gaming becoming a profitable business with hundreds of millions of budgets things like difficulty, intent etc. are subsided to accessibility for the sake of profits. So there's that. Personally I think saying something is art and something is not it's just reactionary talking. You are just posing a principle at the beginning of everything that if you tend to, or touch or achieve then voilà you made art. I like to see art as experimenting with a language and its limits. So every field has its language (movies have it, literature has it, etc.) and what's constant in the percived art world is always experimenting, finding new ways of delivering affects, shaping emoitions etc... wether is Joyce or Beckett, Pollock or Basquiat, Welles or Tarr, Bowie or Death Grips... the constant is toying with language and its set of proposition. It's how and why, not what. Art is just a category invented to sell and create a consensus on what is acceptable and what is not. Many things we consider art were not considered art back then. Erbert was wrong, but because it assumed Art was a thing, not because videogame can or cannot be art.

[@bdo333]

I didn't read all that but imma agree anyway.

[@jreut09]

Roger Ebert was definitely talking about something else considering he had never played a video game and was just making up what video games are based on conceptions he pulled from everywhere except what he was critiquing. Its like if he reviewed the Transformers movie by just assuming how it was based on watching the trailers and reading magazines about the actors.

[@zoroasper9759]

Great video, truly One thing that a lot of people don't understand when discussing this issue (are videogames art?) is that they simply ignore the defining characteristic of a video game which is the mechanics. If you don't have game mechanics you don't have a game, you have a picture, a movie, a music score. What brings it all together into something greater than the sums of its parts is the mechanics. A video game is not art because the writers wrote a good story or because the 3d artists made good looking models, it's because those things serve the purpose of eliciting some kind of response when in the context of actually playing it When people try to define art they often go to the safe old "art is a piece of work designed to elicit an emotional response". Aren't game mechanics designed for the same exact reason? A game mechanic is always designed around the idea that the player will have an emotional response off of it; tension, anger, calm, happyness, sorrow, whatever How is a simple pixel art game about working in a border control booth able to make me feel real dread in a way that no other art form could ever imagine? It's because of the mechanics

[@ultimaterecoil1136]

Glory to arstotzka

[@kingofthegrapes]

You draw a line between the gameplay and the motif, but I feel these to parts are more connected than you present. The obvious example is once again Dark Souls, where the overwhelming challenge makes the world feel bleak, instead of just looking and sounding bleak. The motif of the game would be lost if the gameplay was different, tying the two together. This also is a part of how survival horror games work, by keeping you on edge and anxious by hindering your ability in gameplay. good vid btw

[@Unclipper]

Yes, I think the nature of the medium is such that you can't have one without the other. And I think that's where the challenge of making games lies: recognizing how the different parts of each affects the other, and striking the right balance between the two so that neither is irredeemably compromised. You're right also that the experience isn't separable from the whole package, and I think if there is a flaw in this video, it's that it focuses on only select parts of aesthetics (in a technical sense). Of course, there's only so much you can cover in fifteen minutes.

[@ew275x]

If the survival game is too easy and doesn’t present challenge in the gameplay is it then failing the motif?

[@kingofthegrapes]

@@ew275x i don't think you would say the motif has failed, instead its just different. If the game was supposed to feel bleak or full of hardship, then having a lack of challenge may result in the game having a different motif than was intended. (i.e. getting an infinite rpg in resident evil makes the motif go from a world that's out to get you to something more cartoonish)

[@ew275x]

@@kingofthegrapes That is a New Game+ options the dev did put in and RE did always have a campy horror vibe so it can fit. I do wonder more about a first playthrough of a game that tries to bill itself as dark, serious, where your character is outmatched or your army is weak and it still is very easy. Did the motif fail there?

[@Count_Virgil]

This is the real key, and well stated on your part. The video clearly highlighted The Last of Us and it's animal killing, and how that is one of many parts which is supposed to create discomfort. The game is uncomfortable, there's very little way around that and as you've pointed out, the discomfort in the game play, connects us to the Motif of narrative.

[@TheSpectator64]

The only reason this is still an argument is because videogames as a medium are relatively "new" compared to other media and it still misunderstood, videogames are versatile by nature so is really hard to classify them as an art form sometimes, from Journey to to Cooking Mama, priorities are set by the creators, so like literature, film or music, is opt to them to decide if they want to communicate something, or just to be a piece of media made to entertain.

[@nathanlevesque7812]

entertainment media is still art

[@chanterelleee]

does cooking mama, and spinoffs like "babysitting mama," not (even though it might not be intended) communicate some meaning about domestic life

[@TheSpectator64]

@@nathanlevesque7812 There are levels to that and the purpose, so if we compare Spec Ops: The Line to Call of Duty: Warzone, one has merits to be artful and though provoking meanwhile the other is just a quick and fun multiplayer. Is to the creator to make it a piece of art at the end and to had the merit to be considered as one, because classifiying everything as art might do a disservice to the ones that really earned it.

[@nathanlevesque7812]

@@TheSpectator64 Nope, that's just snobbery. Art doesn't have to be some melodramatically poetic thing. A simple doodle is art. A brief lymerick is art. An animated gif is art. There is no requirement of 'depth' or quality for that matter.

[@tigerfestivals5137]

@@nathanlevesque7812 i agree with this, they are both art but you can still distinguish which one has a deeper message. An underlying message or "something to say" isn't a requirement for something to be art, it can just be a pretty or funny thing someone made too.

[@arachnofiend2859]

We're at the point where art that *must* be a video game is made pretty damn frequently. The AAA productions are still chasing Hollywood's coattails with cutscene fiestas with gameplay slapped in the middle, but looking only at them is like judging all cinema by the MCU. Frostpunk is about the cold mathematics of a society struggling to survive disaster in a way that a movie cannot be; Needy Streamer Overload is about codependency and the pressures of life as a public internet figure in a way that a book cannot be. The presence of a win condition is ESSENTIAL to these experiences, I truly believe these are stories that can not be told in the same way in any other medium.

[@callumanderson6373]

Sorry for the year late reply but I think NieR: Automata is a good example of a narrative that only works as well as it does because it's a video game

[@pedroscoponi4905]

@@callumanderson6373 I agree. There are _parts_ of Automata that can work in other mediums (which is why adaptations of it exist), but you _cannot_ get the whole package of it without the gameplay.

[@MangaMarjan]

Interesting discussion you sparked here but I honestly find it redundand to argue If games are art. What seems more interesting to me is, how they are art and in what ways interactivity adds to that. Because like games, every other form of art needs interactivity too. You have to read a book, you have to watch a movie, you have to listen to a song. What makes art so interesting, is how this interaction with it affects you, others and society at large. Games, in that way, a probably the most potent medium because they offer an interactivity that is well beyond passive consumption. An alternate ending isn't bad, it just serves another message, leaves more room for interpretations and so on.

[@trevorveillette8415]

One of the best examples, and quite possibly THE best example of video games being art, is NieR:Automata. I understand to some people, that praising this game as a masterpiece among masterpieces, is akin to beating a dead horse, because damn near everyone who has played it, including myself, has said so. But it takes alternate endings A huge step further. It's not some good vs evil ending choice, or some "what if" endings. You are forced to replay the story multiple times to see all 4 of its main endings, and must get all 4 endings, to see the "true ending". Which is ending [E] (E for ending). You experience the same story through multiple different character perspectives and no form of opinion or idea is forced down your throats. It's all up to the player to derive meaning from the story. And that's just the endings I'm talking about. I haven't spoken about anything else that makes it a piece of art. The fact that the NieR games are structured to only be able to be fully experienced by replaying it multiple times, makes it something that can only exist as a video game, accomplish what it does. If it were any other form of art medium, it wouldn't work as well as it does. Don't believe me? I own the novelization of the game. I've read it twice. Back to back. The novel doesn't do the game justice in terms of....the experience. But for someone that has played the Game, the novel is an absolute treat because, while not delivering as amazing of an experience, it provides new insights. Thoughts inside of characters heads mostly. Which helps breathe life into the characters even more. It expands on the love of a fan who has played the game first. Which is amazing.

[@chrisblahblahh4468]

Interesting indeed. Something I'd like to add that is not mention here, is that a video game, is literally 'a game'. A game that happens to contain art forms, and that uses art forms as tools. Which makes the whole thing an hybrid in my regard.

[@NikozBG]

Even though art is vaguely defined concept almost everyone will agree that art includes things like self expression, creativity and the ability to evoke emotions. In that sense there is no obvious reason to exclude videogames in particular. The only way to do this is to hijack the definition and to purposefully add arbitrary exclusions or overly-specific requirements to it.

[@thelastdankbender4353]

Well said. I feel completely alienated by the people that think otherwise. It feels like you'd have to purposefully lie to yourself to not arrive at that same conclusion.

[@megavolt67]

That hijacking of the definition is what fans of novels used to do with films. They claimed that movies had too many people involved in their creation (they lacked "authorial control") and therefore they couldn't be art. It was elitism, plain and simple.

[@SL4PSH0CK]

Bioshock release considered games as an Art form..................................................

[@elimgarak1127]

Yes there is a reason to exclude games. In fact, there's so many I'm baffled people even try to call them art. Can someone tell me why videogames are, in fact, art? If they are that includes ALL games. Good luck, you'll need it. Don't conflate a story with art. Don't conflate art assets with games (they're separate and can be separated). Is a game no longer art because a 1080ti can't play it on ultra? Is a game art because it has in depth mechanics instead of a shitty walk along story game from Sony? Is a game art because it does something new other games haven't done yet? No. Games aren't art. The art in them is. What happens when my art has it's servers go offline? What happens when I get banned from my art that I bought? I'll take "games are art" seriously when casual retards stop funding garbage AAA games on a yearly basis. Hard to argue games as art when Fifa, Cod, Apex, Fortnite and whatever other crap is what most console players are playing.

[@Rakebab1]

@@elimgarak1127 you're conflating issues with an industry and audience with the belief in artistic merit. Loads of people love trashy reality TV while Breaking Bad also exists. 50 Shades of Grey sold millions while the Ice and Fire series exists. You're just salty

[@joshuatheawesome9440]

This debate has always been between people who understand games and those who don’t. At this point the classification of video games as an artistic medium is completely undeniable, although I still think we’ve barely scratched the surface of what can be done with it.

[@colelegante]

That's what makes it so exciting aswell. Can't wait to see what new experiences game devs will be able to craft in the futute.

[@tsiazhs9631]

@@DayInDaLife the means and methods by which you weave together said artistic components to create an experience, is art. the 'game' is what gives its music, graphics and narrative meaning. there are also stories that cannot be told or would not inherently function effectively if it weren't for the interactive component of a game. games are art.

[@kindredspirit9703]

@@DayInDaLife The only defining quality of art is that we interpret it as such. So long as you can apply artistic analysis of something, nothing is stopping you from calling it art. When nature shapes the land, it does so without intention or purposeful creativity, it is not art. But If I take a picture of a natural landscape because I thought it looked beautiful, then it is now art. The landscape can be the same in both cases, the only thing that changes is whether we decide it has meaning.

[@kindredspirit9703]

@@DayInDaLife Anything can be art, but that doesn't mean that it's good art. Look up the definition of art if you're such a linguistic prescriptivist, and you'll find that I'm right

[@tsiazhs9631]

@@DayInDaLife Pretty sure what I said was logically accurate, I was not trying to fluff up my words. Either way I think you're getting lost in the semantics of what does and does not constitute art, which is fruitless because art can be literally anything with no objective measure.

[@ignorance6230]

There’s a sort of “Art School Meta” which suggests that any art form is defined by whether or not there’s a debate over if it’s truly art. Meaning that as long as the discussion stays alive, it’s a good indicator that video games as an artistic medium still thrives. As always, great thought-provoking video!

[@RiskierGoose340]

13:50 This is a really good point. It shows that if there is something that you don’t like, it doesn’t make said part unnecessarily or even detrimental to the game, or whatever piece of media you’re viewing.

[@saintjynr]

I like the last part of the quote at the end, "Art leads to transformation". Usually some would associate this transformation with big changes in society or the people's way of thinking, but keeping with the video's topic of video games, I'd like to bring it to a more personal level. For context, I used to be an extremely introverted kid to the point some people in my classroom at school thought I was mute. So, when I was around 15 years old, a friend introduced me to Persona 4. RPGs have a lot of "power of friendship" moments, but maybe none as hard as persona, where mechanics of the game are to grow closer to your friends so you are stronger in battle, and of course that message of friendship is important in the games narrative as well. And by the time I finished that game, I'll be damned if I didnt feel like crap. I'd never admit it at the time, but the reason I went from a depressed teen with barely any friends to someome happy with themselves and with healthy relationships, was because I wanted to emulate that "dumbass talking about the power of friendship" that seemed so much better than me, as I'm sure I would say it at the time, and god damn if thats not transformation, I dont know what it is

[@cycy8699]

You can look like a dumbass if it means its a good change

[@ReidoFutebol98]

Amazing story to hear.

[@federicosavorani6320]

This is so wholesome

[@lukethekuya]

LEZGOOOOOO

[@pramitpratimdas8198]

The invention of steam engine brought about a massive transformation of society and way people think. So would you call a scientific invention, art and scientist an artist?

[@Voidward]

If you've played games all your life, this isn't a topic that needs rebuttal. You already know games are art and don't need to argue with someone who never actually played games. It's like a deaf classical art critic arguing with you that music can't be art because he watched a concert without ever experiencing the sound and didn't like it.

[@rend8307]

RDR2 ruined movies for about a year for me. Felt they were too short for a while.

[@ReidoFutebol98]

There is even an argument that games is THE epitome of art.

[@bigcereal4382]

@@ReidoFutebol98 If we examine art as a use of a medium to draw forth emotions from the viewer, then games have achieved incredibly high achievements of art and have done so fairly consistently. Horror games not only scare the audience, like a horror movie can, but can strap the viewer into the shoes of the character. If we examine art as an elegant display of a medium or skill at creation, then several games come to mind as art. Red Dead Redemption 2, Ultrakill, and Into the Breach share nothing in common as they are wildly different genres, however they've all shown mastery of their craft. No matter how we define art, whether its the artist, viewer, or creation, games have continuously hit that bar. Not all games are equal, I wouldn't put a child's doodle next to the mona lisa, but that doodle is art. Games as a medium are flexible, maliable, interactive, and accessible, not all games share all these qualities, but if these traits don't show how powerful and important of an art form games can be, I'm not sure what would be. Now excuse me as I play Goat Simulator.

[@ReidoFutebol98]

@@bigcereal4382 👏 I completely agree. And Goat Simulator the GOAT game haha.

[@thechugg4372]

@@ReidoFutebol98 This. If games are a mix of animation, filmography, music, storytelling. Then aren't they the ultimate art? It's a pretty obvious answer tbh.

[@jovan3686]

For me the biggest example of video games as art is Shadow of the Colossus. Hardly any dialogue or cutscenes but it’s a game that brings on so many feelings through its visuals and gameplay alone. The mystery and intrigue of exploring this almost alien world with strange architecture, the wonder at seeing Avión or Phalanx flying for the first time or horror of being dragged down to the dark watery depths by Hydrus. The elation at finally beating a colossus or the melancholy of killing such a wondrous creature, taking it from that world just for my own selfish gain. It is just such an amazing example of what the medium of video games can do on its own. Without relying on big cinematic cutscenes or script just gameplay Once I saw a review of Shadow of the Colossus where the reviewer said he would slap Roger Ebert with a copy of the game if he could and that’s probably the best way to sum this up

[@pramitpratimdas8198]

The games he discussed on his article were more uh..."eccentric" than SotC. So I doubt it would change his mind much.

[@PurooRoy]

Is drawing art? Yes. Is sculpting art? Yes. Is music art? Yes. Is storytelling art? Yes. Is having the ability to challenge people in creative ways art? Yes. Is architecture art? Yes. Video games are a combination of all these things. How can they possibly not be art? Sure you may say that there were games that are less into the art side and more on the mechanics side, like Dark Souls or eSports. But they are just like a drawing which is not very detailed but conveys a powerful message (like Picasso's paintings). So are they not considered art? We need talent to make them, we sell them to an audience who likes to see it, it's mostly about seeing and less about understanding. Sounds pretty much like art to me.

[@samuraispartan7000]

For most people, the word “art” is just a synonym for “important”, “prestigious” or “valuable.” I don’t think it has anything to do with expressive capacity. It’s more a question of cultural significance.

[@Spunney]

this... seems super accurate

[@nocturn333]

I think that is how Ebert sees art. His definition of art is about expression while to others it carries the connotation of being important. While I don't agree with Ebert, I can see how he came to his conclusion. If we strictly go by that definition, is there a need for games to be art?

[@Ludwig-4aef356]

In my opinion, "high art" should refer to works of importance, while "art" should refer to any kind of creative expression.

[@samuraispartan7000]

@@nocturn333 Honestly… Who cares? The debate seems to operate under this bizarre assumption that video games need validation from people outside the gaming community. Ebert was a film critic who never played a video game in his life. His opinion is completely irrelevant.

[@samuraispartan7000]

@@Ludwig-4aef356 That sounds remarkably silly to me. Why are expressive works more important than non-expressive ones? Let’s take a random game like Super Mario Odyssey for example. It doesn’t have a particularly deep narrative or theme. However, one could still argue that it’s superb level design and gameplay makes it a “work of art.” Why is expression necessary for it to be considered art?

[@Lotobedra]

Let's think about this: Is an Animal Planet documentary considered art just because it involves film-making skills? Wouldn't non-fiction books, like Daigo's, then be art as well because they involve writing composition skills? I think it's not that simple. And just like we can separate artistic books and films from non-artistic, we can probably do it with video games. Like literally always: superb video essay, by the way. (EDIT 1: I'm not claiming that those two are not art/artistic at all, just that medium doesn't immediately and by itself define art. This is considering "art" as something more specific than "anything a human ever creates", which I believe is the reason the word even exists. EDIT 2: After reconsidering and thanks to some comments, I agree that most Animal Planet documentaries are too artistic to be classified as primarily non-artistic, even with how I explained I approach the concept.)

[@ew275x]

I think it’s usually some vague sense of “use”/“purpose” that separates art from not art. So books meant teach about a subject are usually not seen as art. Like a history book or biography teaching you about the life of Marie Antoinette. A period piece that shows the events of Marie Antionette in a more fictionalized manner may be considered art like Rose of Versailles. Same with things like propaganda and commercials, which is a big debate if it’s art because it was created to sell a product or push a political agenda.

[@PetyrC90]

Games are art because they don't serve useful purpose but to give an emotional experience, which is the opposite of a documentary or a scientific article which clearly are made with a pratctical utility and purpose.

[@PetyrC90]

We can't separate art from games because games don't serve anything but to give an emotional experience. It is in the same category as music, fiction and drawing.

[@Cunt143]

@@PetyrC90 i think there are definitely cases where a game can have a practical utility, but those are few and far between so i mostly agree.

[@eeaahh]

Yes Animal Planet documentaries are works of art, same with non-fiction books.

[@seangdovic4967]

Personally, I choose to define what is and isn’t art based on the content. Every human made object is either a tool that serves a functional purpose, or a work of art which does not. But this is not a binary distinction, it is a spectrum. After all something can be a tool and also art (like a designer car/piece of furniture/etc.). Physical games like American football I would say lie more on the tool end of the spectrum. The actual material content (the ball, field, and goal posts) exists for a functional purpose: to play the game of football. The actual rules, mechanics, and systems are not physically manifested. They are just concepts and ideas which must be enforced by people, making the actual game of football more of an activity than anything else. Analog games lie in the middle of the spectrum. Much like physical games, the actual game portion is also purely conceptual. However, unlike physical games, the pieces rarely exist for the pure functional facilitation of the activity. Most of the time, pieces are designed to express a certain theme and evoke expression/emotion which is an entirely aesthetic/artistic concern. After all, the pieces of chess have no practical reason for utilizing medieval symbols and imagery. Even game pieces that aren’t designed with a theme can still be compared to abstract art on the basis that the aesthetic touches are not functionally necessary. Though there are still game pieces such as dice, which are harder to argue from an artistic/expressive perspective. On the other hand, video games lie very high on the art side of the spectrum, just as high as any other traditional art form. The reason is because there is no conceptual component. Every element of a video game is rendered materially, allowing video games as a whole to fall on this spectrum. Video games have no functional purpose, so they cannot be considered tools (there are educational games, which fall much lower on the spectrum, and I think most would agree that those types of games generally have less artistic quality). Anyhow, if they aren’t tools, then they can only be art. Even programming can be considered as an art form in the context of video games because that code is not being written to serve a functional piece of software (like Microsoft word). At the end of the day, video games are materially rendered works of human imagination and creativity which are entirely expressive, entirely aesthetic, entirely experiential, and thus entirely art beyond a shadow of a doubt. But the truth is that none of this even matters. The truth is that the quantification of art is a purely subjective matter. I have described why I personally believe video games to be art, but this is only my opinion. Anyone who actually believes that they can dictate what art can and cannot be is a fool. The only way for something to be truly objective, is for it to be universal across all subjective experience. The only way something could be objectively proven as “not art” is if there wasn’t a single person across all of human existence who considered that thing to be art.

[@Elena-tj3so]

Wow. Amazing video. This topic is one that I'm sure most game enthusiasts have talked about in their lives, especially in recent years with the whole "Should Dark Souls have an easy mode?" discussion. Despite the hours I've spent debating with friends over it or countless videos and articles all over the net, never have I seen a better constructed argument. Of course it's easy for us to say "Obviously it's art! Only non-gamers would claim otherwise." but the analogy you make to horror movies is the perfect comparison you could use to communicate that to those non-gamers, and even to gamers who think they get it yet complain when game devs don't cater to them. Oh and the editing is fantastic as always!

[@itchylol742]

"Anxiety disorders that affect tens of millions of Americans" Good thing I'm not American so I can watch horror movies without anxiety 😎

[@skymessiah1]

Ukrainians are so lucky not to be Americans right now - otherwise they'd be freaking the fuck out.

[@RiahGreen]

If only I wasn't american! Then I could follow up at the job I want instead of worrying about it for 2 weeks.

[@RunehearthCL]

they live with a gun under the pillow and horror movies give them anxiety

[@campos3452]

‘ People’ should’ve been used, even better, ‘gamers’ lol.

[@lounowell4171]

americans always forget the internet is global lmfao

[@gamelord12]

"You have to be able to hit HIM when he whiffs." Yeah, this disconnect doesn't sit right with me when I've got hurtboxes on my normals as Falke or Axl.

[@Ramsey276one]

Dhalsim-Kane Syndrome XD

[@nicksamuel8324]

It makes me emotional how amazing the videos of this channel are. Gerald you are truly gifted and I cannot wait to see what you'll continue to accomplish and bring to us. Big props and a huge thank you.

[@Kanelel]

I think the question of whether videogames ARE art is sort of facile, since they inarguably CONTAIN art. Many of them have stories or are heavily focused on their visuals or music. If a game is 90% focused on the art it contains, then it doesn't really seem to matter to me whether the thing as a whole is art, especially in those cases where the gameplay is intimately woven into the art. It's like asking if an art museum is art.

[@jessegoonerage3999]

All of those make up the elements of the game, though. You can remove a painting, or a sculpture from a museum. You can't really seperate a game's story, or its art from the final product - if you do it becomes something else entirely.

[@smallss7197]

@@jessegoonerage3999 yea. A game and its art work is almost like a book and its writing. They are one in the same. Without the art of a game, there is no game. Without the writing to a book, there is no book. Video Games, to me are art. They are built around there art. Animation, gameplay hell even story. A game like CupHead is pure artistic joy

[@chrisblahblahh4468]

Interesting. Well an art museum isn't art, it's just a place were you find art. And if a game is surrounded by art, the art is use as a tool for entertainment. It's like a beautiful game chess made out of beautiful mini sculptured pieces. It's just tool to use. Your aim still being check mating the opponent.

[@Kanelel]

@@chrisblahblahh4468 If there were a game of "chess" that's as focused on being an aesthetic experience over being a gameplay experience as your average story-game is, then it would make more sense to analyze that game of chess on an artistic level rather than on a gameplay level.

[@kenpanderz672]

id say a videogame is more like a collage. while things that contain art are not often considered works of art themselves (like a scrapbook), a collage is its own piece of art that can contain other works of art, especially if you consider IRL photos as art. in this since, videogames have to be considered art, because they are not like scrapbooks or museums that simply contain art, they are an work of art made of other media that can be considered art, like BGM and visual assets. saying that videogames are not art is the same as saying that interpretive dance isnt a "real dance" because its silly and weird. they just dont get it.

[@zerarch77]

"If video games are not art, then they are something better." -Richard Terrell

[@cattysplat]

When NFTs are considered art, the word has lost all meaning.

[@iantaakalla8180]

But it’s clear that NFTs are not considered art, but rather poor imitations of art or whatever it is in order to make money by the feeling that you have owned something.

[@Brian_F]

Prepping my cup of coffee for this one

[@DoomRater]

"Imagine a choice between the red pill and the blue pill, and that's the entire choice of the game. Is this a game?" According to the rules of Newgrounds, yes. It's also why art galleries are classified as games and not movies. Because those are the only two categories on Newgrounds, and an art gallery has interaction.

[@Studionuvolari]

What have I been missing all this time? Yours are the best video essays on videogames I have ever had the pleasure to watch. Deep in content and light in form, elegant overall. Thank you so much, CoreA.

[@Unclipper]

WOW that's the first time I've seen Monkey Island mentioned in YEARS (and the best one, too!). Kudos, Gerald.

[@ew275x]

The Ahoy video was 3 years ago, so I agree.

[@Change51]

In my opinion, I think it’s because even the earliest video games were commercial products, unlike the earliest films, which were mostly just people messing around with cameras. But I’d still consider games like Space Invaders, Pac Man, and Donkey Kong art, because just like how early filmmakers used their creativity to progress the art form, early game designers did the same. Nowadays, I think you can definitely name a lot of games that were made as art first, thanks to the rise of indie games.

[@keonkla]

indies + single player games I think is where the art really shines in video games. Hate how single player games becoming outdated is actually being spouted by some gamers these days instead of a out of touch company.

[@Mmmeeee4]

I think you should read on how Tetris actually came into existence, it's quite a interesting story to learn about.

[@thechugg4372]

Well about that, the first games were just people messing around in their spare time also.

[@marzipancutter8144]

The earliest games were also just people messing around with computers. There were plenty of games shared around on the usenet of universities long before companies even noted it's existence. The concept of shareware is still deeply engrained in video game culture, even though it is not often used anymore.

[@NoodleIncidental]

People played tennis on an oscilloscope just to mess around before any game was commercialized

[@TheRealGuywithoutaMustache]

I'm sure the majority of people who clicked in the first place would've considered video games as art already.

[@jasdanvm3845]

Oh, hi there, you haven´t been online as much lately huh?

[@Aki-47.]

Yes

[@SkoomaGodDovahkiin666]

Sadly. The other camp won't try hearing these arguments and this ends up turning gamers off of them, making us just as disdainful towards them.

[@Iqzzy-KO]

Me!

[@user-jc2lz6jb2e]

I don't. It bothers me how obsessed gamers are with trying prove that games are "art", that they push developers into making "games" that are just walking simulators where you push the stick up, and that's what they consider "triple A". Game mechanics and gamplay (i.e. the fun part and the whole point of video games) are compromised, and peripheral things are focused more on for the sake of trying to look "mature", so that games are accepted by the general public. By "peripheral things", I mean graphics or story. There's an obsession with "4K HD graphics" and "60 FPS" and "realism" and "deep emotional stories"... things that you'd focus on in a movie. "The more it looks like a movie, the more art it is", is probably what they're thinking. I've seen people upload videos of GBA games with a title saying "4K resolution" (it's a fucking GBA game), and 20 fucking articles gushing over shrinking horse balls in RDR2 (Google it) because of how realistic it is. None of these things actually affect how fun the game is. Do you know how I know this? Because there are people to this day still playing classics like Street Fighter 2 and Super Mario 64 who don't complain about these games not having them. If you want a movie, go watch a movie, if you want realism, go outside. Games are for having fun, not for your culture war. Stop trying to prove it's "art".

[@DeathAlchemist]

So good to watch one of your videos again. I can't imagine how many drafts this script went through to get it just right, but my god it paid off. Simultaneously arguing for games as an artistic medium and the alienating choices developers make when creating their games. I also loved the comparisons between operating systems and games.

[@hemangchauhan2864]

I like your division of "Motif vs. Mechanics", instead of the old "story vs gameplay". Covers a LOT of game genres. I wish you would've talked more on less talked game genres. Games like hardcore strategy games (wargames), score based arcade games, music/rhythm games, sandboxes (from Minecraft to Garry's Mod) and simulations (driving sims, flight sims). While these might be "edge cases", these all worthwhile experiences to offer.

[@kiri3567]

To me, art can be anything that you can derive a genuine feeling from, whether that feeling be sadness, joy, anger, frustration, or whatever other emotions there are out there. The most common way of inducing these feelings used to be stories, drawings, songs, etc. As time progressed it began to include films and TV shows, so I don't see why video games can't be art either. My criteria for what can be considered art is very vague, but I believe any human that is wise enough can tell for themselves what feelings are genuine and what isn't. There is a threshold, however foggy it may be. If you cross that threshold, it becomes art. That's not to say that the dirty old shoe that you've been wearing for 30 years is art (some people do consider it art but I sort of disagree, to each their own though), even though you might have a strong and genuine emotional attachment to it. I believe art needs to strike that threshold to alot of people, inspiring them in various ways in order for it to be considered true art. Stories fit that criteria, songs do too, films and shows all hit that criteria. Video games also do. If we gamers can band together and spend hours, days, or even years playing and discussing the same game over and over, if we can all derive that genuine emotion that the game instills into us, if we can all learn something from it, perhaps even allow the game to better us in real life in some way, then video games are true art. Anyone who says otherwise, well... I vehemently disagree with them. Point is, art is subjective to everyone. The guy that said video games can never be art did admit he knew nothing about them, so he can't understand what we understand. You playing hard ass fighting games everyday and feel that genuine feeling of competition may not be the same as some noob getting bodied and then thinking the game is unfair. Regardless, video games have found its place. It used to be exclusive to a very niche type of audience, but now it sits at a place in the mainstream where millions of people spend their time engaging with video games on the daily. And if they all derive a genuine feeling from it, then video games are art.

[@sirreginaldfishingtonxvii6149]

I would constrain that definition a bit more. Something like anything _man-made_ that you can derive a genuine feeling from. Nature can incite strong, genuine emotions, and is wondrous, but is separate from art. At least to me. Some would even constrain it to "purposefully made", and I think other animals can make art too, so it's not a perfect definition. But when it comes to art I'm not ever really sure we can have a concise, perfectly sound one.

[@kiri3567]

@@sirreginaldfishingtonxvii6149 constantly adding limits onto what can be called art is what caused the video games can't be art mentality in the first place, at least that's how I see it. But I can see your point. Though I do consider nature to be art (otherwise why do so many goddamn people paint pictures of trees and waterfalls and whatever) so I sort of disagree with your mindset that it needs to be separated. These things would be a lot easier if a council of open minded people maintained an official list of rules on what can or cannot be called art, but that in and of itself will cause art to lose meaning. After all, it's something malleable that should inspire, not a set of criteria that needs to be met. I view nature as an art. I view the skill of making difficult dishes as an art. I view philosophy as an art. I view the stars in the night sky as an art. They're just all in different subcategories.

[@sirreginaldfishingtonxvii6149]

@@kiri3567 To me, if things not made by anyone is art, then _all_ is art. Genuine emotion can be found in most any place depending on your life experiences after all. Nothing then becomes not art. And if everything is art, not in a metaphorical sense but a literal one, then the word "art" kind of loses meaning, don't you think? It no longer really describes anything. I would say things can still be deeply meaningful without being art. I get that too many restrictions on what is art or not is foolish, but I also think the "made by a living being" thing is the broadest I'd be willing to go, personally, at least. To me art is created by the being, that is where it begins. That is the defining feature of it.

[@kiri3567]

@@sirreginaldfishingtonxvii6149 indeed, that I can agree with

[@jensenraylight8011]

@@sirreginaldfishingtonxvii6149 i like that "purposefully made" interpretation. because it captured 90% of the essence of what makes an art an art. and video game fit into that "purposefully made" category, whether the story, gameplay, worldbuilding or the music. the developer pour their thought into it, to design an immersive experience. it took time and iteration to design a specific experience. and we were all had experienced that jawdropping moment when playing a game, that is not an accident, and not happened itself. the dev clearly designed that with purpose in mind.

[@abrahamlincoln7907]

This dude is like a holiday, they don’t come around a lot but when they do it’s awesome

[@downbadichigo9331]

Where you at Core-A??? We miss y’all

[@bulbasaur5995]

I've been waiting for soooo long, very happy to see my favorite channel's still pumping out bangers

[@AxxLAfriku]

I am being humble when I am telling you that I am the most powerful strongest coolest smartest most famous greatest funniest Y*uTub3r of all time! That's the reason I have multiple girlfriends and I show them off all the time! Bye bye cha

[@baldandknuckles]

@@AxxLAfriku Ok bot

[@drybonesGCN]

This wasn't the type of video I was expecting, but I think it's become one of my favorites of yours. Great work Gerald!

[@yazo872]

This may be my fav video from you, it really got me thinking about my perspective towards videogames, specially as someone who is very passionate artistic mediums and I think videos like yours very much apply to Makoto Fujimura's quote. Amazing job Core-A Gaming, you never disappoint to be one of my absolute fav channels on the entire platform

[@flashbackfrank8781]

and when the world needed him the most, he vanished.

[@ethanalspencer7294]

I really like this perspective being put more out into the open, because it focuses on the aspects of gaming that, I think, are it's most cherishable and puts that in the spotlight of the 'games as art' debate. For the longest time I was a staunch defender of the 'I don't WANT games to be art' perspective, because I felt alot of outsider people who aren't really interested in the actual interesting mechanics of gameplay were the ones trying to make the argument that they can and should be, thus pushing the industry towards bland, samey gameplay in the service of big budget actors and all the annoying dreck that comes with modern moviemaking. But I think it's a much better shot at conserving the uniqueness of games to say that yes, they can be art, and the art comes from the GAMEPLAY experience, not strictly just the story or presentation. Strive for the Microwave Hallway scene, not the 71 minute no-gameplay epilogue.

[@sirreginaldfishingtonxvii6149]

Exactly. Films aren't art because they mimic books, and music isn't art because it can be appreciated like a painting. Games don't become more "artistic" by just trying to mimic big-budget movies. Gameplay is an essential artistic aspect of games. Perhaps _the_ artistic aspect.

[@LutraLovegood]

@@sirreginaldfishingtonxvii6149 I hope you do not mean this in an exclusionary way.

[@sirreginaldfishingtonxvii6149]

@@LutraLovegood In what way would I be?

[@ethanalspencer7294]

@@sirreginaldfishingtonxvii6149 it is indeed *the* artistic aspect. Good acting in a game is good acting, good story in a game is a good story, good music in a game is good music, but the unique trait of a game's artistic value comes from it's gameplay. Not technically solely, because integrating said gameplay with all of those other elements can be an important part of that, but the gameplay is the function of the artistic value above all other ancillary factors.

[@LutraLovegood]

@@sirreginaldfishingtonxvii6149 "the artistic aspect" can imply that it's the only artistic aspect, which would be obviously wrong.

[@danield6740]

*I just wanna say that I JUST LOVE YOUR VIDEOS SSOOOO MUCH!!!* I literally binge watch all of your videos when you release a new one. You've been creating quality content for so long for us.... and I really appreciate you

[@mrpinguimninja]

It's amazing how deep, well written and thoughtful your videos are. Always a great watch (or rewatch)

[@vullord666]

The argument for why Video Games can never be art, instantly reminded me of the arguments for why Science Fiction can never be a genre with academic merit. Its rather disappointing, but its gotten to the point where within the Sci-fi community, there are authors who will staunchly say they are not writing sci-fi (despite having all the elements of it). They instead use filler words to describe their novel all of which can be summed up by just say sci-fi (think, “the terminator isn’t sci-fi its just a post apocalyptic dystopian novel about human fears toward a new superior artificial species”). The blog post isn’t making an argument that games can’t be art, it’s completely ignoring video games as a medium and pretending they’re stuck in this incredibly narrow box that was never there to begin with (I’ve never “won” a video game (ignoring multiplayer online), I’ve at best beat the story, but that’s the same as finishing a book). Honestly it IS rather insulting. Especially when a game like Yakuza Like a Dragon delivers its story and art in so many ways unique to video games as a medium.

[@kaoko111]

Really is there people that says that sci fi has no merit?... Give him a copy or any Verne, Bradbury, Dick, Gernsback, Wells, Atwood, Asimov, Le Guin, Clarke, Herbert, Adams, Huxley... And those are only in the top of My head.

[@duckadence]

@@kaoko111 OP said "academic merit", which makes sense. Science itself shouldn't derive itself from fiction.

[@PetyrC90]

Imagine how stupid one must be to deny that video games are art. Music is art. Story is art. 3D modelling is art. Illustrations are art. Cinema is art. So we mix everything, and suddenly the result is not art?

[@MrTheil]

Just a bunch of boomers saying some crap

[@PluckyD]

Took the words right out of my mind.

[@cheezeebutter452]

There has always been push back for all things new, when newspapers were invented all the old people said ‘they’re rotting your brains’ and ‘newspapers unconnected us from each other’. Then it was radio, tv, internet, etc etc.

[@qaasi95]

@gibbdude That was NOT his point. His point was that interactive art can and has existed, but we never called them "games" because a game implies an activity performed for the sake of achieving a win condition, not artistic merit. Basically he was saying video games can never be art, because a game that focuses on narrative or artistic expression over points/winnng would no longer be a "game". I still don't agree with him, but I think the biggest issue is that Robert has a very specific definition of what a "game" is that doesn't really match what became the consensus. And because he doesn't play video games, he never learned.

[@Ramsey276one]

Fully agree, starter

[@LastMinuteEssays]

The main issue is that if not viewed as art, games are treated as products - to be pumped out infinitely with no regards to preservation and history of the medium, where every year some title is considered 'revolutionary' for doing something another title did 20 years ago in a much more impactful way.

[@kevinmelendez5339]

Yeah, but being a truly masterchef making food has more close to Art than videogames knowing that food are experience by the senses, like videogames does.

[@Zetaku3]

I love how you build the video based on a storyline, it's very easy to follow and your points get across very easily. Very good content :D

[@DjAfroThunderDj]

This content is SO good. From articulating points, sources, editing, clip choice, VIDEO OSTs. I can't understate it and this is by far my favorite creator on KZbin

[@loohole81]

" Anything is art if an artist says it is." - Marcel Duchamp - French Dada, Cubist and conceptual artist.

[@anthonyj.manttan9986]

Personally I love the works of the Austrian painter.

[@loohole81]

@@anthonyj.manttan9986 Which? Fuchs? West? Schiele? Rainer?

[@suhasop4919]

@@loohole81 The one who liked Jews alot

[@stealth3122]

9:04 may I say, NL wasn't stuck he was just savouring the last moments before he crushed the crossword :)

[@BlueCrashFigurineHoldingWumpa]

It's a thinking egg's game

[@philipearakaki]

I think videogames aren't just "Art", they transcend it. It's art where the artist have no control over the creation, the creation has life and lives by itself, no two experiences are the same, they are more abstract than abstract art itself, as abstract art is based on the different interpretation of the same performance, in videogames, even the performance is transient, videogames are na medium that empowers both artist and audience to express themselves given a set of rules, it's not merely a monologue, but a dynamic immersive monologue where transformation activelly happens, bot in work as in audience.

[@originalElctric]

That’s exactly what art is my guy

[@suezuccati304]

So, exactly like art. Like, in a book your imagination of the story will never be 1:1 the author's imagination of the world.

[@chickrepelant]

that was incredible! i like the intro, with HORROR movies having modifiers, it really got my head ready for slightly less-obvious comparisons

[@felipegermano5974]

'When Pollock finished his first drip painting he asked his wife "is this a painting?". He made something that may not even fit in the very large category we call art, he didn't know, the interesting thing about Pollock is that he only dripped for about 48 months... If you've invented fire, which Pollock did, would you be willing to go back to hell and try and make something new, again?" - Jerry Saltz Now, let me watch the video

[@stylesheetra9411]

I wouldnt use a guy that whole utility was painting easy to create products for the CIA to try to stop the social realism artstyle in the USA as an example for "art" lmao

[@Spunney]

@@stylesheetra9411 what

[@DbladeMedic]

@@stylesheetra9411 you ok? You having a stroke?

[@624Eduardo]

Imagine thinking pollock has artistic value, lmao.

[@alexanderraz.]

@@stylesheetra9411 schizoposting

[@ROR5CH4CH]

The quote by Makoto Fujimura at the end of the video says it all: "Entertainment gives you a predictable pleasure. Art leads to transformation." There certanly are lots of movies who are predictable and therefore "just" entertainment. There are films which definitely transformed the way I see the world today. And it is the same with games.

[@84bombsjetpack23]

That might be the most narrow-minded (and incorrect) definition of art.

[@auditoryproductions1831]

That definition of art is almost bad enough to be found in a fortune cookie. The content of an idea is not the relevant criteria to define whether something is Art. Art is an idea that exists in boundless imagination. It is not constrained by any rules of construction, conditions of reality, axiom or theorem. By contrast, a Theory (which often gets jumbled up with art) is an idea formulated within a framework of constraints. These two concepts are bridged by the process of Construction. Construction is a process of taking a metaphysical concept like an idea and crystalizing it into some form of tangible information. All construction has to happen within some medium and all mediums in the objective universe have constraints. Some medium preserve an artists freedom more than others. Spoken Word preserves pure Art the most as the only constraint lie’s in the artist’s ability to talk. Written word and painting also preserve artistic freedom as the only constraints is the type of canvas and brush for which the information is being crystalized. The opposite extreme would be something like constructing a rocket ship. Rocket Ship design is under many millions of intersecting constraints pinned by the natural universe and the machines pre-defined goal. Writing “Faster than light travel” into a script instantly grants said action while writing the same thing in an engineering plan does nothing.

[@diegoseba12]

The thing is, if you learn some important life lesson thanks to a painting or a video game instead of actual experience or education then I'll just call you an asocial loser lol

[@atratus920]

I love how you always sneak in the rising thunder music in these. bless. fantastic vid as always

[@level3xfactor]

Yo was that I-no’s guitar at the end? That is SICK! Great video as always!

[@gaichured8579]

I love everything you make. This hit particularly hard as I've been having this conversation for the last 20 years. Could not agree more with your take. Thank you.

[@stayslapped1568]

It’s been 6 months, I missed him a lot today

[@somewhataddicted7685]

What do you mean

[@gergermermer]

I just wanna comment to show support. Amazing work and keep it up!!! Never have I experienced this, watching a documentary-like video and give me chills!!! It's so moving!!

[@drewzen7462]

Great video. I've watched some of your content and your videos are one of the reasons why I started practicing my fighting game skills. That being said this video in particular made me sub to your channel. Love the Silent Hill 2 music you used in the background. I always considered that game to be a piece of art. A fitting choice for this video.

[@Karaage_]

"Art is a diverse range of human activity, and resulting product, that involves creative or imaginative talent expressive of technical proficiency, beauty, emotional power, or conceptual ideas." - Wikipedia The design of any videogame and the videogame itself express at least one of those things in every case, even if the game is just a collection of game mechanics. Wonderful art as always, Gerald.

[@lao-grotten1101]

i mean it's hard to pinpoint what art truly is. most people call art what they think it is worth the label which is weird

[@jinpei05]

새해복 많이 받으세요 Gerald!

[@omegastrike8812]

My friend my a similar video to this and even though it has the same foundational question, his video went into much more different points, comparing things like sound effects and the use of them and how they can be compared to how music is used to even the production of the game itself, and that the making of a game makes that game worth more and more artistic. All that being said, having two people making two separate videos about the same topic while also hitting several differing points already shows the inherent artistic value of games and how they can show it

[@bradens.3125]

it's so awesome to see you delve into other topics, and the way your videos are presented and written will always be top notch! and yes, video games are art

[@sparksdojo9091]

Before I watch this, Stanley's parable is art, hands down an expressionistic, interactive, and unique experience you can only get in a game. I love this topic! Btw you are amazing! Keep up the good work... now let me get into this video lol

[@84bombsjetpack23]

The argument seems to be that, since you can't "win" an experience, it's not the "game" part that is art. I don't know it's very confusing.

[@ThatHexnetic]

Art to me is an expression of the creator. Whether that’s one guy drawing pictures, or a whole team creating a movie, to a few people working together to make a game for fun, they are all for the purpose of delivering an experience to others who view or play it. Paintings are visual art, videos and film are cinematic art, and games are interactive art.

[@arch0049]

Interesting take. I disagree. But, I appreciate your comment.

[@vDeadbolt]

The funny thing about the Hypothetical Matrix game is that it actually exists. Final Destination 3 did this on their DVD release. The movie plays as normal, up until the point where the cast makes it to the rollercoaster and the protagonist flips a coin. The viewer ends up calling it, and if you call heads; the movie plays normal. If you call tails, the protagonist decides that going on the rollercoaster is not a good idea and the screen turns to black and there is text saying that the characters all lived.

[@They_are_Arthur]

I was literally thinking about this for a while. This is a very good video that puts an informative look at the nuances of video games and their status as art.

[@rk9515]

I feel like Undertale can be considered a good form of art based on its mechanics. You think you're playing a normal RPG game killing everything when it turns out that is the worst ending possible. Whereas the good ending is saving everyone and friending the monsters, helping them get to the surface.

[@matin793]

Exactly. Perfect example

[@weaverquest]

As someone who refuses to play Last of Us 2 below its hardest settings and recently started uploading gameplay content which to my surprise got a lot more attention than I expected I can confidently tell you that TLOU does form communities around its gameplay mechanics often aimed at finding strategies and improving the skills to beat the game in the hardest settings which the game itself calls the most realistic experience. I would argue that the ability to tailor the experience to the individual's skill levels doesn't compromise the art form, it just makes it so that the designers can deliver the intended experience to a broader range of audience and that includes the both ends of the spectrum from the most skilled to the worst player. Your own analogy fits perfectly here, it is not like a movie loses it is quality of being art when you are not able to understand it in its native language and rely on subtitles. The thing is in Souls games the designers are still limited to finding a middle point or average when designing their challenges and there will always be people whom the game will be a walk in the park defeating the whole point. Which is why the more skilled players end up having to come up with their own challenges like no hit runs in Souls games whereas in Last of Us 2 there are already things like the grounded permadeath mode that appeals to the most hardcore players and that mode even makes more sense in the context of its story and characters. Also I find it especially confusing why you treated the accessibility settings intended for gamers with disabilities as a compromise to the art. The point is again tailoring the systems so that the intended experience can be delivered to every individual.

[@_sai7102]

Thanks, I really hoped somebody pointed this out

[@tipnsunny2107]

Now that I think about it, isn’t Tetris’s real life equivalent building towers. You make a full section and the camera just shifts up. The anomaly is clearing a line in the middle, but the line could just be being sent to the bottom and is like Dhalsim having stretchy limbs. It’s more fun that way.

[@rekkazan]

Great job! I personally can say that certain games are art when they're able to make me feel the creators' vision, message, or motivation behind the work. And sometimes even a game that's not so high in production value can convey a great artistic value.

[@aikam007]

Art is subjective.

[@morriganrenfield8240]

True

[@shaheer_04]

hope u come back soon king

[@BadSodaProductions]

PT I feel like is a good example of video games as art Being so inundated with the medium while also conveying the narrative and the experience

[@JosephReference]

these are THE best kinds video essays, i love this

[@maclaynecredere5103]

I miss your guys videos so much

[@komi-samabeliever7319]

Every time this I saw this argument pop up, again and again I always said the same thing. Shadow of the Colossus exist, it's an art form that *POSSIBLE ONLY* because it's also a video game. Art definitions are many, depending on each person you asked it may varied from head to toe. But for me personally, art is a timeless legacy that we can tirelessly converse, debate, delves deep into its meaning and purpose while also give strong emotions when doing it. And Shadow of the Colossus did that for me. Yes, beauty is one of many common criteria for art. But if we called every single beautiful thing an art, then the meaning of it is lost. Compared it to Cleopatra, there's many tales of 'beautiful women' throughout history and yet Cleopatra is the one woman that seems synonymous with the word. We don't even know her actual looks, she may indeed the divine incarnate or maybe its all just lies and propaganda made for elevating the fugly queen and history buys it, we will never know. But one thing we know for real is she's truly stands out among her peers. Either through simply her charm if she was beautiful, elaborate tales of deception if she's not, or even both looks *AND* deception. And that for me is important aspect of beauty in art. It needs to be the eye catching among the beauties while also have the ability pulling eyes without overly dependant on it, and again Shadow of the Colossus did it through its beautiful metaphor that easily missed and can only be seen if you think outside your perspective such as Malus (the last Colossi) placed at the bottom of the map coordinate F8 (similar sounding to Fate) where it saw all of its fellow "souls" beaming through the skies after being slaughtered one by one in Wander's hands (the protagonist/your character) and is the last standing of its kind *knowing* Wander coming for it and extremely hostile from miles away compared to its kins due to hatred and perhaps fear for Wander in its heart, if it had one. That is a beautiful story, told silently through metaphor. And speaking of art from in media we could also talk about music, book and of course movies. Those are what we commonly thinking about art outside of painting, sculpture and etc. Funny thing is for some reason anything that came from video games never really generally considered as art by public. There's seriously plenty of masterpieces of OST worthy of talks and titled classic, its a bit branching out but what about manga? anyone that have read Berserk is pretty much convinced there's art in this media too and there's many more worth recognition as well. And while video games movie adaptation isn't the best I admit, video games pretty much a movie that you can play and fully interact with. Honestly, perhaps with bias, video games are superior compared to movies. But that's my own preferences so don't take this into account and heartfelt about it. So to close it. *YES,* video game can and should be seen as an art form, but something just seems against the very idea of it I don't know why. Its a shame since many just flew everyone under radar just because its a game, I know for sure my grandpa would love SotC (he was heavy art lover) but just couldn't bother to check it simply because its a game and his word "nothing good came out of it" and diminished it. It broke my little kid heart to be honest, but that's okay. As much I love video game as an art form, I won't impose my views and ideals to someone who just isn't into it, so my respect for him didn't really changed much.

[@dbgr9875]

Yoooo, I'm in the middle of writing an essay about both art and video game hard modes, the 5 rules of challenge thing you included is a blessing : D

[@cesarmarquez8670]

14:35 self burn!!! Those are rare… followed by a 4th wall brake! Nice 👍

[@coldDrive]

Wait, they're not considered art? In my country they recieve arts funding, design is taught at arts colleges, and even video game critique is getting there in academic weight. This kinda feels like a 00s topic ngl.

[@Arrestedrabbit]

It really does feel out of place, I wonder what prompted this? Especially the part with Ebert, a guy no one outside the film community knows and the shit he talked a decade ago.

[@Platitudinous9000]

It goes interesting places, but the starting point of "Are video games art?" feels like a relic of the late ’00s early ’10s discourse, as opposed to something like, "Wait, how do games as art work, anyway?"

[@CoreAGaming]

Google spiritual opium.

[@coldDrive]

@@CoreAGaming Sure, but that's a specific government's policy, and a reactive one for political gain on middle-aged parents. It can damage the credibility of the medium, but does not reflect the state of things in academia, or even public perception outside of that specific group of people being catered to. It's like the old argument of bringing up Roger Ebert, that you yourself brought up: the point was never that video games weren't art, or that they needed legitimacy from the mainstream, but that people isolated from an art form can not make accurate judgements about it, and their criteria shouldn't be taken as valid. The moral of the story is that Roger Ebert's take on the artistry was, later self-admittedly, irrelevant. Saying that if the chinese goverment passes legislation to stigmatise video games as a medium they "stop" being considered art on the eyes of the culture at large is bizarre, hell, you know this already, you made this video knowing full well that that policy can not detract from the reality of games as an art form. Someone swimming against the current does not mean the current isn't flowing against them. Video games had for a while a weird persecution complex about the art tag, but the discussion got settled well over a decade ago. People in art circles that deride the artistic value of video games are a minority of elitists, and it has been so for a while. They're the new "talkies are bad" crowd, often just talked around because everyone knows you can't teach an old dog new tricks. It feels stright up anachronistic to see a "Why games aren't considered art" take, in 2022, on this side of youtube no less. And zero ill will. The video is well researched and edited. But it is a 2007 take.

[@blacxice]

The imagination is art… and anything derived from that creative energy is ultimately art! Video games is art!!!

[@jallerxzl1966]

One of the best videos I saw about the topic 👌 Btw, I don't know if you know about him, but I think that you could also talked about Yoko Taro and his approach to how videogames express ideas, and specially, his concept of the invisible wall, which is what you can and cannot make with a game, and if these boundaries can be weakened in some way to express what you want (something he did with NieR:Automata)

[@DraconicDon]

I think one of my favorite examples to use in the games as art discussion is Missile Command. Released in 1980 and very much a product of it's time, it carries all the typical arcade game trappings of points and fail states, but also manages to capture the looming threat of the nuclear war.

[@adreamer5920]

Sometimes I think of a quote Yahtzee from the Escapist said that went along the lines of "Everyone over the age of 50 will one day die and thats when video games can become art"

[@edwingaleana2085]

You can always expect quality content from this channel.

[@Kanramon.]

"And you really don't think of thomas edison as an artist", after some reading, I don't see that thief as an inventor neither

[@xephondp]

not only these videos are amazing, you actually put the ads at the ending... ABSOLUTE STUD!

[@-Sheva-]

I’m my opinion videogames offer just as much artistic value as other media. In both the literal sense, art direction, voice acting, story, and music, but also a more abstract sense. The way the player interacts with the game will change how they view it, it creates a more expressive medium than any other. The game itself is only half of the art, while the player makes up the other half. Videogames are experiences, and different people experience them differently.

[@DragonK-rt3uh]

Is Core A Gaming still making vids?

[@TheIcenero]

This ones going into the favorites; phenomenal video

[@Scutl108]

I love your videos Gerald! I'm starting to get into video editing, and I was wondering if you could point me in the direction of a tutorial that can teach me how to showcase articles like you do at 1:36. Viewing the article at an angle, scrolling to the right spot, and highlighting the passage all looks very clean.

[@morriganrenfield8240]

Art is art. Whether it’s good or not, does not matter, it’s still art. The guy you mentioned is simply archaic.

[@realchezboi]

^^^

[@izaakamesta1919]

You are missing the point

[@morriganrenfield8240]

@@izaakamesta1919 oh am i missing the point? Please, tell me what it is.

[@izaakamesta1919]

@@morriganrenfield8240 it has nothing to do with it being good or bad, for the old guy the fact that you can beat it (as you do to games) means for him that it would be an experience different to art (probably closer to sports?) I don't agree with him, but I don't think he meant it had to be good.

[@morriganrenfield8240]

@@izaakamesta1919 i mean that’s an arbitrary nonsense point. So if you beat it does that Rob the game of its value? Does it no longer have any affection from its users? The man is either an archaic dinosaur or just a fool.

[@DiscoMouse]

Let’s be real Gerald, it was a knock on TLOU2. And I completely agree.

[@Peasham]

More people being able to play TLOU2 is not a knock on it. You're only upset because it's TLOU2.

[@DiscoMouse]

@@Peasham huh? I’m not upset.

[@absurdspiral4640]

Amazing Video, Amazing Channel.... So far this is your best video. Game Community need more high quality video like this.

[@twirlincurtis]

I love your work so much. So excited every time I see a video come out!

[@pokemonsonic321]

Oh YES some Core-A

[@TheSurrealEmbassy]

Your content is art though without question

[@Skywardtoast]

another great video with an interesting concept idea, viewpoints, and perspective considerations delivered at a good pace with clean cut jokes, please keep up the good work