Could One British F-35B Squadron Have Won The Battle Of Britain? (WarGames 2) | DCS

[@sheadjohn]

Can you buzz them with a shockwave.

[@grimreapers]

Tried similar here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/f4XVl5mGfL9nd7c

[@Make-Asylums-Great-Again]

M25

[@andrewstrongman305]

It might be possible to damage the bombers engines with jet-wash, or crack glass and damage instruments, but the risk of collision makes it a foolish tactic. Better to zoom and boom with guns before RTB for refuel and reload.

[@rebelroar78]

@@andrewstrongman305 yeah, one crash and the RAF has lost 5-10% of its aircraft.

[@dumbperson4061]

Pretty silly that the British didn’t think to use their f-35s in the actual Battle of Britain

[@colecooper5836]

I've always found it weird that they used Matildas and Cromwells while their challengers sat at home.

[@tomasinacovell4293]

Yeah, even the Luftwaffe would laugh at that lame looking VTO transition. And those AMRAAM would be far more destructive than that, in fact hitting just one bomber in that formation would have taking the closest adjacent 2 bombers on average.

[@robmanueb.]

They couldn't as it was considered unsportsmanlike conduct.

[@RebMordechaiReviews]

I agree. Not to mention the RAF Space Battle Cruisers in orbit, just sitting there with multi laser cannons and not being used. (Comment made in 2051)

[@Just_lift_anyone]

Oooooh my gwwwaaaaad they didn't eveeeen have the F35 in WW2!!!! Seriously though why didn't they just nuke the Germans with their Vulcans ?!

[@Roboticgladiator]

I could imagine the confusion of the Luftwaffe when their planes just started exploding for no apparent reason.

[@syitiger9072]

Ikr

[@beauxr.benoit1374]

The F-35 would break first.

[@ArxInvicta]

The confusion would be very limited - planes exploding for no apparent reason is just another tuesday for ww2 pilots. Basically on a weekly basis the enemy came up with some random new idea to shoot down planes - be it the german "schräge Musik" or unguided air to air missiles, even AA proximity fuzes caused a nasty surprise when they were first introduced. I think the "real surprise" would come from the planes speed - just like the B17 crews were shocked by the ME262. Didnt stop them from firing back at it though and most crews accepted the new plane as "just another enemy to fight" So I would assume the german crews would get over the sight of the F35 rather quickly.

[@ShaunHensley]

@@ArxInvicta Yes, they'd over it quickly because they'd be dead

[@westrim]

@@ArxInvicta If any F-35 gets close enough to be seen, they messed up, or there were more bombers than missiles so they decided to try a gun run.

[@b2tall239]

115 bombers......my, how things changed a couple of years down the road. Later in the war there was a half-joke going around among Germans that went "If you see silver planes in the sky, they're American. If you see green planes in the sky, they're British. And if you see no planes in the sky, they're German" Great video and scenario. Thanks.

[@robertofulton]

The German army joke in 1944 was if the plane were British we ducked, if the planes were American everybody ducked, if the planes were German nobody ducked.

[@b2tall239]

@@robertofulton I've posted a variation of that...."If there are silver planes in the sky, they're American......green planes, they're British.....and no planes, they're German."

[@bmw_m4255]

@@b2tall239 i don;t get it

[@joshuaortiz2031]

@@robertofulton yeah because american pilots were infamous for friendly fire incidents. Americans never change.

[@danieldunlap4077]

The F-15EX would seem to be the better aircraft for this scenario. It can carry up to 20 AAMRAMS. This would allow more targets to be engaged at once, and you could hopefully avoid getting close enough to where the Germans could engage you.

[@TheNobleFive]

F-1SEX

[@BENKYism]

It will be able to carry even more JATM's once the missile enters service

[@shanedoesyoutube8001]

@@BENKYism what's that???

[@BENKYism]

@@shanedoesyoutube8001 A new missile to replace the AMRAAM

[@shanedoesyoutube8001]

@@BENKYism and what's the acronym for it??? I thought it's joint anti tank missile but then I don't think it makes sense, more like joint air tactical missile

[@RebMordechaiReviews]

I would be very interested in a Battle of Britain simulation but with RAF 1950s fighters, in other words, the aircraft which were developed from lessons learnt during WWII. How would RAF of the 1950s do against the Lufwaffe of the 1940s. Sounds interesting?

[@Twirlyhead]

Lessons ? The RAF had very good fighters in the Battle of Britain, no development lessons required. Then through the war there was a rapid evolution responding to changing requirements. 1950s were jets of course. There is a video on YT of Gloster Meteors training against B29s: the speed differential is startling especially when they tell you that the film is slowed down so we can see what is occuring.

[@RebMordechaiReviews]

@@Twirlyhead "no development lessons required"? What? All Britain had available for the BofB were Hurricanes and Spitfire Mark 1s. I would argue that even 1943 Spitfire Mark 9s would have been much more effective. The development of the Spitfire increased in leaps and bounds in terms of handling, speed and most importantly, in terms of fire power and increased magazine capacity. It is interesting however to note however, that in a unique encounter in 1949 between WWII era Spitfire Mark 9s flown by Israeli combat veterans of the war and some 4 Spitfire FR18s from No. 208 Squadron RAF Middle East got into a scrap over the Sinai. Suffice to say, the RAF did not come off well. It gets worse. The RAF then sent up Typhoons to intercept the Israeli Spitfires and also suffered considerable humiliation with a Typhoon being shot down for no IAF losses.

[@Twirlyhead]

@@RebMordechaiReviews LOL. What _are_ you going on about.

[@isaiahwelch8066]

@@RebMordechaiReviews : No, not at all. The planes of the RAF in 1941 were not Mk-1 planes. There was already development underway with every plane, save for the Lancaster bomber, which was not very effective. But the Spitfire was already at Mk-3 when the Battle of Britain happened, the Typhoon already had the 1b and 2b variant, and the Hurricane had the 1b variant -- meaning, that the the Hurricane and Typhoon already had tactical bomber variations, despite the fact that they were heavier fighters than the Spitfire. I imagine a more apt comparison would be comparing the Hurricane and Typhoon to a Bf-110 that the Luftwaffe had. Sure, the Bf-110 could act as a fighter, it could act as a bomber, but it was much worse than a pure fighter, like the Spitfires and the Bf-109s.

[@RebMordechaiReviews]

@@isaiahwelch8066 The Battle of Britain, which I specifically referenced, is recognised as waging from 7 September 1940 to 11 May 1941. All online references I found state that during this period, the RAF flew only Mk Is and IIs in those battles against the Luftwaffe. I would be happy if you could show me a reference which states otherwise.

[@breckhollis1089]

Tactical failure, but a strategic success. During WWII, the maximum loss rate per mission for bombers was 5%. And that was the absolute maximum. Anything above that would force the suspension of your bombing campaign. Also, that airfield would probably be operational again in a day or two.

[@romakrelian]

Some of them were destined to get through. The good news is that Hermann Göring still has to explain why he thought it was a good idea to waste all those bombers on a target that could be repaired in less than a day.

[@mbukukanyau]

The moment they started dropping off the sky, they would turn tail and run, they wouldn’t have any idea what they are colliding with

[@MrDJAK777]

@@mbukukanyau WW2 pilots regularly (well I guess the Luftwaffe a bit less the allies but still substantial) flew straight through flack exploding around them at eye level knowing that was going to be the case when they took off and watching others get hit they still continued on to target I don't think another unpredictable weapon hitting them would change their determination much.

[@mbukukanyau]

@@MrDJAK777 Yes, yes, WW II is a different time. The typhoon didn't exist, nor the brimstone

[@billisaacs702]

1) Forget a carrier. Use an airfield. 2) Ripple fire immediately and turn around for reloading. Do this like a merry go round. It's all about volume of fire. No time for nonsense.

[@dirkwink9470]

Realistically you've made several German squadrons combat ineffective and caused a significant amount of casualties. The damage to Manston isn't that bad. Craters can be filled, the grass runway section is untouched and almost all the buildings intact. That base is still operational and most damage can be patched up within 24 hours, if that long. If it wasn't for the loss of the F-35's (and lets be honest, real pilots in proper F-35's (not the mod F-15 avionics) would have been far more effective) this would have been a great success. These kind of losses in a single day would have been a punch in the gut for the Luftwaffe and set back the German operational tempo by a lot.

[@DarthCody700]

Yeah, there's the fact that if the Germans encountered this durring the Battle of Britain, by at least the second time they would be postponing operations to finguee out what the hell was going on

[@raymondlantz9278]

Exactly...God save the queen!

[@stevenlarratt3638]

2 key points to consider, 1 imagine being a survivor going back saying they flew near us and loads of planes blew up near them. That would be devistation to morale and mean they might not strike again. 2. Also seeing a plane with no conventional prop engines and flames coming out the rear passing by at 500knots or past the speed of sound would be a massive WTF moment in the ealy 1940's... Try flying high above the fighters and down from behind the closure speed would be lower

[@stevenlarratt3638]

@Modoc Jack the Jets at the end of the war although fast in comparison were a step forward, but the F35's are a leap forward. The ME262 had limited range of firing and could be seen and tracked still as it would need to be within a short range. The F35 would be hitting and taking many multiples of targets down before even being seen, that is a massive difference . Kill ratios are drastically different as well. ME262 achieves a ratio of 4:1in the second world war, F35 in this simulation?

[@breadngames]

A sonic boom that close to a bomber from WWII could have a serious chance of injuring the people inside and shattering the glass. Those planes weren't really meant to tolerate those forces. Might be able to down the squadron with just repeated super sonic close passes lol.

[@fabiosemino2214]

Seems to be a good script for a Roland hemmerich film

[@ClingyCrab]

@@breadngames Forget shattering glass, a plane of that mass flying in supersonic speeds near those bombers would tear them to shreds. Just remember the movie “Final Countdown” (I think), in which when a couple of F-14s flew past some A6M’s, the pilots of the zeroes almost crashed due to the wind being created, and they weren’t even going as fast as an F-35 could. This was all also in live action.

[@andrewstrongman305]

This could be more workable if the F-35's were able to RTB and reload after volleying off their first payload. They could also use their superior speed to attack the bomber stream from above and to the sides. In order to avoid friendly-fire incidents, a caracole-style attack could be conducted. As they circle, only the leading F-35 fires so there's never any chance of a missile locking onto a friendly.

[@breadngames]

Also I swear those bombers and fighters were defending against those missiles in a couple cases.

[@emperorkalan]

...or RTB and then spawn a second, replacement group after the first came in. That's how I've handled it in my own cross-tech scenarios, although maybe I just couldn't figure out commands to have them reload.

[@paulzuk1468]

Forget the bomber stream entirely. Strike the bases, Luftflotte HQs, fuel and ammo dumps. Cluster bomb the airfields, kill all the generals, destroy the supplies they need to keep the bombers flying. Done.

[@tomasinacovell4293]

It's a retarded comparison anyway, they should have tried it with A-10's, and they don't even intercept when they could have.

[@andrewstrongman305]

@@tomasinacovell4293 Yeah, A-10-s are faster than 109's and can carry a massive missile payload before going in with the Gauss. They could wreak havoc before breaking away before the fighters could even respond.

[@drtidrow]

I wonder how they would cope in real life if you did a close flyby at maximum speed - would the shock waves coming off the F35s be strong enough to severly damage or crash the Ju88s.

[@andrewstrongman305]

Probably not, but it would terrify the crews!

[@MrRandalfscott]

There's a chance it might break some glass instruments, maybe a windscreen if very lucky, but that's about it

[@MeanLaQueefa]

Maybe with a B1 full afterburner

[@andrewmetcalfe9898]

3:38 - ‘fighters going after the same target” isn’t a problem with the F35 because of sensor fusion and teaming. All of those missiles are BVR ordinance, so should be launched immediately upon take off. Frankly a single AWD with evolved sea sparrows (say an evolved Airleigh Burke Destroyer with an 80 VLS tube Mk41 Aegis guided quad packed missile system) would do the job in one missile volley (with a second volley to mop up).

[@HeyZeus096]

Yeah, I think the 8 fighters coordinating with an AWACS would probably make short order of the bomber stream.

[@T33K3SS3LCH3N]

F35 is such a weird choice. No point to go for a stealth plane against an enemy with barely functional radar to begin. At this point using a more modern plane is actually downgrading it for the role at hand. It's specifically made to be effective against modern high value targets rather than masses of low tech.

[@hellothere1656]

Ye the f35 only has 180 rounds for its gun whilst the f15 has 940.

[@LondonSteveLee]

Sea Harrier with a full compliment of 72 SNEB rockets each would have probably been a better choice.

[@kevinc8387]

Capt. They are inside each other. Missed opportunities on a good or very bad joke towards the British navy. Love these alternate history, modern vs WWII period warbirds episodes.

[@MrGamingCookie]

There is no such thing as the "British Navy"....

[@shanedoesyoutube8001]

@@MrGamingCookie you're right, the Brits are THE royal military

[@MrGamingCookie]

@@shanedoesyoutube8001 Almost... the army is the British army but with certain regements holding the Royal title. (Like the Royal artillery for example) But they navy and air force are "Royal Navy" and "Royal Air Force".

[@mbukukanyau]

@@MrGamingCookie It’s the Anglo Saxons Navy

[@bjorn7355]

I think it would have been interesting to use A-10 warthogs

[@yuuzyerbrejn9603]

Love this idea, way fun! Here's one for you, and in the realm of reality- what if the soviets had been prepared on June 22, 1941? In other words, could you simulate the massive Luftwaffe preemptive strike that day except have the soviets armed and ready with all ground and air assets involved? Would it be worth it even? Wouldn't the germans just be destroyed? Anyway, great content mates!

[@grimreapers]

Interesting...

[@arsenyjsharov2239]

Also don't forget to use Su-27/35/57 with it.

[@emperorkalan]

@@grimreapers If you do that, set the SAMs to only initiate fire at a reduced distance. The 40s planes move too slow, so if the SAMs are set to fire at max range, the planes stay outside optimal range too long and, while most hit, there are enough missed shots to grind your teeth over. Limited range is more effective.

[@BD-yl5mh]

I really like that one. Because it seems almost plausible that someone like a diplomat or something MIGHT have been in a position to pass along a credible early warning but didn’t

[@yuuzyerbrejn9603]

@@BD-yl5mh Actually BD they had all the early warning needed, Stalin didn't credit it as plausible and bears full responsibility for the state of soviet forces. Soviet intelligence was always well informed and they had the particulars of Barbarossa, just wasn't acted on.

[@APV878]

I do hope to see DCS have 1950s and 1960s Interceptors at some point, it'd be really interesting to see a coordinated intercept with a bunch of F-102's, even something like F-89s and F-93s with a ton of aerial rockets. I also wonder how well a squadron of F-15s or F-14s would do in this situation

[@badgermcbadger1968]

Yes yes yes

[@Trigger444x]

(5:58) That star transition is pretty snazzy. I don't remember this Mario 64 level though. (12:00) The cockpit voice is very polite and family friendly. Love these "Final Countdown" type vids! The biggest problem always seems to be the AI in DCS, they really need to do some overhauls. Even when you set behavior limits, the AI seems to just ignore it anyway, or kill themselves on take off lol.

[@slowhornet4802]

"Even when you set behavior limits, the AI seems to just ignore it anyway, or kill themselves on take off lol." I am sure there were times when Cap was thinking exactly the same when leading the GR team into missions 😎

[@shearfury147]

great video again missed this channel. let the binge begin. ill share as much as possible on social media

[@tonyroberts4807]

Same battle but Kuznetsov with SU-33s armed with R-27ETs. Could also try USN with hornets, they can carry a lot of missiles and more gun ammo. Finally for fun, frogfoots with full gunpod load out 😁

[@pancake5830]

10:39 "why cant i find any baddies on my radar?" i felt that..

[@thefamilydogs3213]

Ok so I’ve been thinking about this a lot and what I think we could do to put the ball in your favor more is to add 2 fleets in the channel. One close to the west so they can engage targets as they cross. The other fleet should be within striking distance to the east. Both fleets should be Royal Navy to stay within that facet. So with the additional fleets you will stay within the original parameters aircraft wise. The Eastern fleet can be used to launch player assets. In this case also increase the number of player assets to 10-15 with 2 respawns only. The Western fleet has one full deck of AI and no internal aircraft. Then spawn the rest of the F-35B’s in their original location.

[@Brykk]

Kinda makes you wonder if a10’s could take on a task like this. Closer range to the base but the a10 being able to use their gau. I dont know, some kind of slower moving plane with lots of machine guns.

[@markseeling1723]

I think the key takeaway is NOT that one squadron of F35's can take down 50% of the German Strike package... BUT RATHER that several untrained computer jockeys achieved a 50% kill ratio. If fully trained F35 pilots were to take on the same task the results would have been significantly different. Likely 100%.

[@deano4932]

This would make for a really good sifi movie. The Queen Elizabeth Aircraft carrier some how time travels back in time to the BATTLE FOR BRITAIN 🇬🇧

[@bennielovejoy1305]

I really like these "time travel" what if's. Now granted I am not up on the BoB, But I would think that the shock of seeing bombers in your group just explode out of no where would put anyone off guard. Not to mention the sonic boom perhaps. And also would not the F35's have still had help from RAF? It's my opinion that they could have helped in stopping The battle of Britain.

[@johnparrish9215]

Hmmmm..... Replace a Lancaster Bombers bombardier with the radar and fire-control of a modern fighter and fill that huge bomb bay with AA missiles. They can't model it but in my mind it makes me laugh.

[@anditsP]

@@johnparrish9215 every Lancaster pilot becoming an ace within 5 minutes flying straight and level hahaha

[@gaxanuziagain1748]

Hey Cap, sorry to bring this up, but you did actually shoot Simba down. Your kill feed showed @14.39 that it was your sidewinder that destroyed Simba's aircraft. In saying that though, I do think your "zoom and boom" tactics were far better than just blindly firing missiles into the mass of aircraft. Great series, and I look forward to more!

[@grimreapers]

whoopsy!

[@simba1113]

wait what. Cap you swore that wasn't you. How could you do this to me Cap we've been besties since pre-school. the back stabbery that has just gone on. hahhaahahahahah these things happen.

[@gaxanuziagain1748]

@@simba1113 I think Caps aim is to "accidentally" shoot down every member of the Grim Repairs, and it has been a while since he shot you "accidentally", Simba...

[@tpmunyon]

My buddy flew F4s in Vietnam. Early in the war, the planes didn't have cannons and they relied on first-generation (i.e., primitive) heat-seeking missiles. The problem is that the missiles would often chase the sun instead of the Mig's tailpipe. After running out of missiles, you had no choice but to ditch your spare fuel tanks, get into the clouds or low, and book it back to base. They added cannons later in the conflict.

[@stevenessex1932]

I feel like the jets would zoom in so fast that WW2 era gunners wouldn't even know what's happening or what they was fighting lol

[@pradobombillo]

Great to watch! make a similar video but with the luftwaffe tornados stopping de allied bombers!

[@JudgeHolden74]

Those F35s could destroy the entire Luftwaffe on the ground, flying over Germany with impunity.

[@ettavictor4804]

The GAU-12 on the F35 has a magazine capacity of about 180, compared to the 400 or so 20mm rounds an F22 can carry.

[@johnparrish9215]

I have to say that one of the things that is never modeled, I don't know how it could be, is moral. If you think the Germans would not be affected by these superweapons slaughtering them you are wrong.

[@trottheblackdog]

Agreed. Those crews, seeing their mates simply explode, with no idea what happened, would be highly disconcerting. Might even be enough to get the bombers to abort mission. At any rate, a 50% kill on the bombers has to be a success by WWII standards.

[@grimreapers]

Fair point.

[@Anarchy_420]

I love time travel lol Cool vid concept watching now👍

[@kenhelmers2603]

Foregone conclusion to the end result, but super fun to see! Thanks GR. :)

[@nickmcgookin247]

As a valued member of the community. I say this looks fun. Good thinking like a ture production manager.

[@Steve-gc5nt]

I can picture Goering getting upset when he's asked for a squadron of F35's.

[@jeffkardosjr.3825]

Donitz tells him to wait in line. That he's still waiting for submarines.

[@dancole3187]

Fantastic video! I love watching these hypothetical videos. You could try this one again except with all human pilots in the F-35s.

[@benja_mint]

upvote this!

[@emperorkalan]

I've done a number of cross-tech scenarios mostly relying on AI, and yeah, AI for modern jets is always rubbish against 40's tech. It never sticks to its advantages. You can get around that some by setting it to RTB once it's expended its missiles. You really need human pilots to let the modern jets be the monsters they can be against 40s tech. Here's a scenario: Thanks to whatever BS fictional reason modern units are operating in a 40s battlespace, supply is very limited, and for the most part you can only use aircraft that can operate from unpaved airfields or the occasional paved road. Let them act as night fighters (even if you film it in daylight to have decent video), mainly to take enemy fighters out of the mix. How would a number of A-10s and Harriers with gun pods fare against a 40s bomber formation? (One that isn't trying to replicate Greatest Day numbers, to keep it manageable. I'll also suggest putting the bomber crews at lowest quality, since they're not supposed to be used to shooting at jets.) It was cross-tech stuff (your jets vs warbirds over the lake) that put me onto GR and DCS in the first place, so thanks for that.

[@grimreapers]

Thanks

[@PrinceWesterburg]

I asked a guy I knew who was a Ministry of Defense stratergist, how long the might of the Vermacht would last against our non-nuclear missiles of all types and one squadron of Tornados and he reckoned they'd be on their knees within an hour, half a day at most as we'd cripple communications, electricity, gas, water, military installations and runways just with cruise missiles alone!

[@alganhar1]

Right up until the point we run out.... We do not stock that many of them, and there is no way the engineers of 1940 would be able to 'reverse engineer' the things like some suggest they could. Reverse engineering does not work that way, solid state electronics would be years away at best even with actual physical examples to copy. Also I think your friend misjudges the pernicious resilience of the Nazi regime, after all, those things HAD happened to them and it took the almost total destruction of German infrastructure and Industry as well as the occupation of the entire country to pull them down. Something that may want to be considered in that scenario.

[@gargk999]

Only if you also transported the infrastructure needed to support them. External power could not be applied, as the trolley-accs used back then do not have the voltage, nor the correct connector. To keep the battery charged, you'd have to run the APU almost all the time the aircraft was on the ground. (Which also brings fuel/oil problems - see below). Any engine fault that requires engine (or component) replacement would be problematic. Any FCU/oil pump/fuel or oil filter problems would ground the aircraft. With a central European contract for engine servicing, engine bays on active RAF stations have limited ability to carry out module replacements - anything more requires shipping to the deep strip contractor. Some of the avionics boxes in the plane also cannot be deep-stripped in the UK, due to the contract signed with the USA. Some can only be replaced, box for box, and any deeper repair carried out in the USA once the box has been shipped back there. I am unsure if (like the Tornado) the engines can be run on AVGAS as well as AVTUR/AVTAG. If not, then as (at the time of the Battle of Britain) there were no operational jet fighters, the F-35s would manage one or two sorties before running out of fuel. There would possibly be problems with oil to top up the engine as well, with the Tornado using a synthetic oil (OX36? Been a while!). If the F-35 uses a similar synthetic oil, there would be difficulty in supplying it. Focusing only on the air-to-air ability of the plane gives a somewhat false outcome.

[@blaircox1589]

Recreating the battle that would have occurred in the movie The Final Countdown would be cool

[@LSwick-ss6nm]

At what range could radar detect the incoming raid and would there be a chance to RTB and re-arm considering the speed of the lightning vs the speed on the enemy? I also agree with another comment regarding the likelihood the Lightning would be too fast for the gunner to track.

[@keithhoss4990]

They didn’t need radar, the French resistance usually call in air raids

[@willwozniak2826]

Pretty cool how you guys used the ramp to take off.

[@SWR112]

That would have been absolutely mind blowing, probably like the Allied forces seeing a ME262A for the first time. It always amazes me that we went from Lancaster Bomber to Vulcan jet bomber in ten years. Not had a decent PC for over a decade actually more 2004 build was my last but that DCS looks amazing that you can set up WWII raid.

[@DragNetJoe]

Total WW2 production of fighters and bombers on both sides wildly exceeds production of air-air missiles. About 15,000 JU-88s were produced, over 30,000 109s.

[@kensai7]

I loved the 19:03 moment. Not a Nazi, but such a good payback after the mayhem you created! :D

[@Wilson2005WAW]

This is quite an interesting fictional scenario. I honestly enjoyed it.

[@tomriley5790]

This would have worked, but it lacked Kortana :-)!

[@grimreapers]

agree

[@goldenstateaviation2861]

I love these. It’s like a tv show final countdown

[@ivorbrae]

This was brilliant. It would be good to give this another go with a few more actual beautiful hyoomans in jets. How about the ability to return to the QE to rearm?

[@icyknightmare4592]

I wonder what would have had the greater effect on German morale: Absolutely none of their aircraft returning, or too many survivors coming back with the same story of unbeatable British superplanes.

[@NSResponder]

The optimal scenario would be two German survivors. Make it clear that they were spared intentionally, and if you have two witnesses, you can't really dismiss the story as hallucination.

[@Yeetin_Boomer_Actual]

No. Too much maintenance vs flight time. Typhoons, yes.

[@ribsi85]

There's one sitting on the bottom of the Med somewhere, grab that and we're on our way to a squadron.

[@chrisstopher2277]

It might be waterlogged. I'm sure it can be used as a submarine though.

[@grimreapers]

lol will be rusty by now??

[@fredflintstome6532]

How about RAF F4 Phantoms? Air Defence loadout - 4 Sidewinder, 4 Skyflash and a Vulcan gun pod. Yeah baby!

[@kingtigerbooks1162]

Thanks to computer simulations we can find out how a small group of modern fighter jets will do against a massive array of WW2 fighters. Only in a good simulation can such wild battles take place, without anyone getting hurt. To me it's the stuff of Sci-Fi. To whom it may concern, my 3 favorite science fiction art books are : - Wonderworks by Michael Whelan - Great Fighter Jets of the Galaxy 1 by Tim Gibson - Icon by Frank Frazetta

[@mostevil1082]

"It wasn't me" On the right of the screen, red kill notification for F35B Simba :D

[@brickisland6353]

Can't the F-35B fire it's missiles like 30km away? So you could take out about 80 planes even before they know what hit them. And then you could drop on them from like 30000 feet. And they wouldn't even know what hit them.

[@anotherHelldiver]

F-35 with a F-15C cockpit looks so wrong

[@creightonfreeman8059]

I wonder how the EMB 314 Super Tucano would have done in the Battle of Britain. It has similar speed to WWII Warbirds but has modern electronics and weapons. I don't know if DCS has modeled this plane or not.

[@STScott-qo4pw]

i'd love to see this - modelling super tucano single seaters and twin seaters vs luftwaffe. as the planes are very similar in terms of speed it would be very interesting to see how it plays out.

[@fredkruse9444]

I wonder if old F 101 Voodoos with Genie air-to-air nuclear missiles could vaporize the entire attack.

[@richardstuart325]

Can't beat the subtle approach!

[@ADB-zf5zr]

#GrimReapers Here is an idea for you, although I doubt that the missile in question is in the game. Battle of Britain (as above video) vs a F104 Starfighter with it's nuclear AA missiles...

[@Wolfen443]

The Germans had some advanced prototype aircraft and some early missile tech, try that with the best warplanes and missile tech the Luftwaffe could have had in 1946 maybe?. Interesting experience , the more advanced and early prototype German warplanes had the same problems targeting the slower Allied bombers at the time.

[@shaundavidssd]

Lol rockets ,not missiles

[@slowhornet4802]

We need a Grinelli mod Ta-183.

[@Wolfen443]

@@shaundavidssd , right rockets sorry.

[@brendanpells912]

Wouldn't a squadron of Hawk fighters be just as effective, with a centerline cannon pod? How many Hawks could you buy for the price of an F35? Then again, it wasn't that long after that radar controlled AA guns and shells with proximity fuses became available, what difference could they have made in 1940?

[@andyf4292]

maybe load up completely with sidewinders? or,,,, a gunpod on each pylon?

[@grimreapers]

rgr

[@mikethompson2650]

I am rather curious if the fragmentation range of the missiles is modeled in the game. With bombers that tightly packed a 50 pound frag warhead should/might create a large kill zone. So a single explosion could take out all three planes. Comments?

[@grimreapers]

It is yes BUT remember these old planes are not stressed skin planes, much tougher to kill with frag than a modern plane.

[@Basetornado]

@@grimreapers Might be more difficult to take down mechanically, but that frag is likely going to take out crew members/pilots in the aircraft around them.

[@Bohdan_Medvedskyy]

Holds the explosion of a warhead 120))) But dies after a couple of hits from a cannon. Well tuned the strength of the aircraft ...

[@JustEffinLetMeIn1]

How about something that could have happened? Like: - De Havilland Vampire + Gloster Meteor vs. Ju-88 - De Havilland Vampire + Gloster Metor vs. Horton Ho-229 - Hawker Hunter vs. Horton Ho-229

[@nicomeier8098]

Those Ju88's are beautifully rendered.

[@andrewmetcalfe9898]

8:20 - by now, the F35s sensors would have identified individual targets BVR and have assigned them to each of the planes in the squadron by fusion. The first volley of missiles would already be tracking towards said targets at Mach 3.0+. This is not a realistic simulation, is it?

[@awittyusernamepleaselaugh7481]

DCS can't add classified stuff for obvious reasons and these F-35s are a mod.

[@Brian-mr4gf]

I suspect that Skyhawks with gun pods would fair better. Use one gun pod at a time leaving the internal guns for last.

[@laurieharper1526]

I'd be interested to see how less high tech would fare. Harriers, for example, with their manoeuvrability, wouldn't suffer the same difficulties tangling with fighter escorts, but still be able to deal with the bombers.

[@jgauthier92]

"I can't tell what I'm shooting at" Proceeds to fire every missle. "OH no simba is hit"

[@ketsan]

In fairness, in real life suffering 50% casualties in one raid would have given the Luftwaffe serious kanalkrankheit.

[@kencooper8835]

Didnt see this battle before i posted to the 1st Chinse strike on Taiwan... so.. her goes again, the music, by Ron Goodwin for the 1969 motion picture Battle of Britain. kzbin.info/www/bejne/iqvGnaF-ZtN9nc0 I set the music video to loop and started it at 6:03 (start of Second attempt) into the video of the battle. Enjoy!

[@rustyreese4006]

Cool scenario guys. I do think you would do much better if you had a full squadron of humans though. In all of these you do, the AI just does their own thing. Maybe set it up as a competition run behind the scenes for people to qualify for a campaign with the reapers. Could be a good way to find some new guys for you.

[@nick4506]

should try it without the k4s to get the ai to work right

[@touristguy87]

It did highlight one thing though some people spend way too much time worrying about 1v1 air superiority A very eye-opening episode into the border-security problem and the tactical superiority issue...it just doesn't matter how advanced your technology is if it can't do the job required of it or you're going to use it to try to do something that it can't do, that in fact is a waste of the technology and its support resources to try to do with it.

[@skippyDvd88]

Perhaps you should try hitting them in the rear so you possibly have better tracking time and start them further back thanks to your advanced radar???

[@Joe_duffy]

Next time. Do it with 8 humans or same 3 guys but reapawn as soon as your out of ammo so that total only 8 planes take flight

[@wavebuilder14udc75]

Obviously the modern jets are better but this is a question of Logistics. A F-35 beats any German fighter of the time 1 on 1 but that doesn’t mean a squadron of F-35s can win the Battle of Britain. It takes many planes to stop Germany from executing raids across the entirety of Britain.. if you have a handful of gods fighter jets that doesn’t mean you can stop an enemy of overwhelming strength.

[@jamesa.7604]

I really liked this battle. Hope you revisit this later. Well Done, Boys!

[@1982daverogers]

So a single jet couldn't land, re supply and then go out again? I think it could tbh...... of course if the objective is to stop it from happening fair enough.

[@garymyers6638]

suggestions: all lightnings piloted by actual people. Attack the bombers from the side while all of you are side by side. (Fly north of the blob and then turn into them going south. Unload on all of the front bombers first and then zig zag back and forth from the sides lining up two or three at a time to hit with a burst. Maybe rearm and reload cycles and supersonic speeds for all lightnings during attacks? Also, if you've got that carrier for those jets, you've got missiles to defend the carrier. Put the carrier on the other side of the isthmus and fire those missiles. (Every time I hear the words navy grumbles, I say to my self, gravey numbles. Then I say mumbles. Just read another commenter regarding sonic booms and it got me thinking. You could literally explode the glass in the cockpits of those bombers in real life by flying through the formation head on at mach 1 point something. That would probably down several of the bombers outright or at least cause them to drop the bombs over the sea which is just as good. And, what modern aircraft carries the most air to air. Would that be Tom Cats?

[@stevenlarratt3638]

F15-E could carry 20 AMRAAM 's

[@garymyers6638]

I’m with the F 15 guy. 20 amraams each and live pilots

[@kwkfortythree39]

You can be over of the enemy by several thousand meters and just shot missiles, being outside the reach of enemy all time.

[@andrewmetcalfe9898]

4:00 - the guns on the Junkers are only ~8mm machine guns; moreover the gunners were never very effective against planes that could easily hold 500 knots on an attack run from an oblique angle (not many B17s managed to shoot down a Me262 for example).

[@realalcibiades2909]

What you have to take into account is that in real life if planes were exploding in the air from an invisible enemy while they hadn’t reached the channel it’s likely the morale of most of them would have broken and they would have turned round.

[@TehShinegami]

surprising how so many bombers shrugged the missiles off

[@francescoboselli6033]

Plot twist: UK really send F35-B back in time to win the Battle of Brittan, bit they had an accident during take off, and end up in the sea bottom

[@grimreapers]

lol

[@SFish-wr4kh]

There were a few comments about the efficacy of modern missiles on ww2-era aircraft, is there any evidence to suggest they'd be less effective? I should think that a missile designed to engage modern aircraft should have no issues destroying something of that era.

[@EdMcF1]

Heat signature?

[@SFish-wr4kh]

@@EdMcF1 were the missiles radar or heat? If heat seeking yeah that's a valid counterargument, didn't even think of that

[@Blackgriffonphoenixg]

@@SFish-wr4kh consider however: the amount of heat generated by those engines was still noticeable with IR sensors, and even at low altitude, modern radar can be very easily calibrated to identify those targets effortlessly. Even the "stealth" flying wing wehraboos bring up had significant high temperature and metal components that 1940s radar could pick up, let alone modern equipment.

[@TorquilBletchleySmythe]

A worthy battle gentlemen. I am curious about the VTOL capabilities, and wonder if a hover/loiter approach exploiting the vector thrusters would be useful for the missile phase. It may prove more useful than having to blast though the "blob" and then melee.

[@grimreapers]

MAybe, Harriers used to use something similar in combat.

[@essexginge9167]

Strafing them from above on a fast fly by would be the quickest way to take them out

[@grimreapers]

We found the 88's could defend themselves really well from above.

[@josephjohnson8504]

Happy New year Grim Reapers

[@grimreapers]

You too!

[@karlostj4683]

The mating dragonflies: Clearly an "off-by-one" error.

[@EdMcF1]

What about simply flying past WW2 aircraft and letting wake turbulence chuck them around in the sky? In the Falklands War Flt-Lt David Morgan took down an Argentine helicopter (more vulnerable to turbulence for sure) by simply flying over it.

[@hooperssmokeshackbbq4827]

It says you killed simba at 14:38... Yet you say you didn't. Pretty hard to miss when it comes up in red text too. Weird.

[@marcotheodorefrancis9609]

I think that is all the stuff that is happening, not just the things he does.

[@jeffking8890]

Suggest 6 of the F-16 Block 70 (Viper version) with 10 missiles (6 x AIM-120Cs & 4 x AIM-Ls) against the same German aircraft strike force as the A-10Cs faced in your Battle of Britain scenario using RAF Lakenheath as your Base.

[@jimrussell4062]

Nice! Love these historical mismatches! Those huge numbers are murder on the server though =-)

[@shanedoesyoutube8001]

Thanks to their reenactment of the final countdown movie

[@92HazelMocha]

The F35 can't use Meteor missiles as of yet; the contract to integrate them into the F35 (for the UK) was only formalized in September of this year, and while no offical date for the tentative introduction exists, the original goal was full integration by 2024. The new meteor variant will feature a different profile from the one currently in service to allow it to be carried internally by F35's.

[@grimreapers]

thx