Could the Zerg Swarm defeat the Galactic Empire?

[@fillerpoint555]

The objective of StarCraft vs Star Wars is super unique, there are billions of planets that need to be destroyed, each is guarded by a progressively stronger group of enemies.

[@boakley8147]

Not to mention the unknown amount of planet killers on forgotten planets like that one massive machine from the bad batch series

[@coruscanta]

I understood that reference! :D

[@poilboiler]

My queen, the podracers on this planet are made out of pure essence!

[@EliasMheart]

​@@poilboilerAre you saying that they... Never mind, I don't want to know

[@mattor300]

Its also important to note zerg can outproduce the empire, each infested planet is like a factory word of imperium, but as the imperium needs another planet types, zerg don't wich means that the stalemate scenario actually favours zerg

[@jamesr1371]

Looking forward to "can you beat the galactic empire with zerglings only" run

[@anarchistlilia]

Officer:So zergs are just these little guys what are they gonna do leap up and chew apart out starships?

[@LoliFoxQueen]

@@anarchistliliaZergling: *Noms on Bridge window*

[@arbiters487]

Zergs don't stand a chance, It's clear in starcraft their spaceships are about the length of 5 zerglings

[@jamesr1371]

@@arbiters487 picturing zerg ships as just a spacefaring clown car has improved my opinion of the faction immensely, thank you

[@normal_handle47]

@@anarchistlilia Imperial gunner"SIR THE ZERGLINGS HAVE EVLOVED AND ARE JUMPING ON TO OUR GUNS SIR"

[@Bushflare]

I’m disappointed that you didn’t point out how Vader would feel about the Zerg seeing as they’re coarse, rough, and they get everywhere.

[@erkhesbatkhuyag9915]

*vader immediately backs off of zerglings*

[@1Kapuchu100]

Either he goes into a rage and murderizes every Zerg he can find becaue of how much he hates them. Or he runs off screaming "I HATE YOU!" and fly off to the opposite end of the galaxy.

[@jfried6754]

Damn - I thought I had purged that bit of dialogue from my brain until now.

[@neartheplumtree]

LOL

[@TheFrantic5]

You ought to be ashamed of yourself. Take my like.

[@evilmandrake]

There is an X-factor missed that I think pushes this in favor of the Swarm, and that is the Leviathan's ability to infest other spacecraft directly, turning a foe's own firepower against them. While this is devastating enough when it's a Battlecruiser or Carrier, Star Destroyers in the hands of the Zerg become a nightmare for the Empire

[@margotval6750]

Palpatine just need a throw for a invasión of aliens

[@thorminerdk9906]

Another factor that Grant seems to not have fully thought through is the leadership Grant says that the zerg has a weakness in that if kerrigan falls then the zerg falls but that is completly false all off her advisers Can take her place zargara took her plas after she disapeared in into the void and stukov litterlig leaded a terran group so from the starcraft lore given the fact that zargara took over the swarm it would not be to unreal for Other broodmother to also take over the swarm. He stats that the Empire leadership has no weakness in that vader palpatin and the Other guy could take over the Empire but in the movie after vader and palpatine dies the Empire pretty much falls because off a lack off leadership.

[@Imperatoroth5th]

​@@thorminerdk9906 He used the swarm from a certain point in time and he explained in the video that there is lore stating that at that time the swarm would split in 2 factions. (zagara vs abatur) To your second point, at the battle of endor palpatine was using the darkside to "motivate" his fleet and troops and he specicfully made plans that when he would die, so would the empire. The empire wasnt meant to survive after his death. So when he died at endor all his troops suddenly felt the opposite of motivation even giving the troops a feeling of great terror and thus evening the odds for the rebels. Also plot xd, they needed the story to continue.

[@Linkatchu]

But, would that apply without a crew, given the weapons are operated by people?

[@Imperatoroth5th]

@@Linkatchu Zerg could invest terrans and keep their memories in the starcraft universe but it would probely cost them efficiency when operating a star destroyer. The real question should be if the Zerg could maintain such a ship without the supply of needed resources of which the answer is no.

[@MrGeorgeFlorcus]

It really never occurred to me to imagine how not-out-of-place Kerrigan would be in the Star Wars universe; there's all kinds of exotic and strange aliens living together in the main galaxy, it would not be weird to see someone like her just hanging out.

[@nonya1366]

She's larger than a normal human now, as well as being obviously very naked in high organic heels. Most species would be at minimum, interested to learn more about her since >new species??? But there's the small problem in the scenario where tatooine ***doesn't*** Panic at seeing what is basically a giant organic ship arrive in orbit.

[@MrGeorgeFlorcus]

@@nonya1366 I mean this is all hypothetical anyway, Kerrigan's not going to roll up to the Mos Eisley Cantina and order a drink to hear what the latest gossip in the galaxy is in the first place; She's a powerful telepath and a conqueror, both traits that fail to lend themselves to casual schmoozing. Most likely, she'd descend upon Mos Eisley in force, ground every ship in the port, put down any resistance, and gather information from her prisoners. So, the thought experiment of Kerrigan just hanging out is a little moot anyway, but I guess she could put a onesie on?

[@nonya1366]

@@MrGeorgeFlorcusThat's more reasonable yeah, mind grab some folk and rip out their bits [The swarm does that too, I think they eat memories if they want anyways.] But I just can't picture her being. Subtle. In the scenario. Because leviathans are fucking massive and tatooine has a lot of criminals who'd look at one of them and go 'uuuuuuuuuhhhhh time to go!' But she really should put on a onesie, considering she is very naked. Even if her bits aren't showing because, she evolved past a need for those.

[@templebeast1324]

All flying can fly through space.

[@RuneKatashima]

Kerrigan post-primal can adopt her Ghost fit and that'd be fine, she simply chooses not to. @@MrGeorgeFlorcus

[@ironmilutin]

Okay, okay, hear me out. Kerrigan IS a powerful force user. She was born with a certain, more or less unexplained power, she uses it to shock people with Force Lightning, choke everyone in area, crush them with implosion, and uses it to enhance her speed and ability to jump. Heck, the whole Zerg chain of command can be seen as a kind of 'Jedi mind trick' as well. The only thing she's missing is a lightsaber, but that was stolen by miss Covert Ops.

[@joshuah4952]

New headcanon: the Force users embody purity of form in a different iteration of the infinite cycle.

[@MattDawgGaming]

In KOTOR and in the Thrawn book trilogy there were powerful Jedi that had an ability called “battle meditation” that allowed them to inspire armies and even communicate orders to them. Kerrigan having a powerful form of battle meditation makes perfect sense

[@HeroOfJusticeYT]

You're reaching so hard

[@Daytruin]

@@HeroOfJusticeYT I find your lake of faith disturbing. Also the zerg and abuther and kerrigan alone are vastly superior to the empire even at it's very peek even if they owned 3 death stars. The moment the zerg have several planets to breed and spawn their broods the empire had better deathstar those planets before the zerg had the chance to leave orbit. The zerg are an organic species that can survive in the vacuum of space and only become more genetically adapted to what they have to capture and the ability to adapt in general that it would be a game of whack a mole for the empire that they simply could never cleanse when the entire galaxy of space can contain contingent zerg expansion beyond the outer rim. The empire is mostly limited in its expansion as the outer rim exists meaning the empire does not control every potential breeding ground for the zerg. Also kerrigan is basically a sith/jedi in her own right and ya, if abathur discovered midichlorians (which seems impossible for him not to given every life form there has them and would stand out) , abathur would be spinning the sequences to ensure zerg not only have them too, but that they are genetically bred for that trait. Abathur is so underestimated due to literally being able to evolve life and rapidly mutate creating ever new challenges for the empire that only become harder to counter over the time abathur has. zerg having a civil war would also not be the end and sells the zerg short. The zerg existed and functioned quite fine before kerrigan as they had things like the overmind and other beings of psionic ability approaching inconsequentially short to her own. changelings plus abathur, i don't see the empire being able to deal with the infestation being able to hid basically anywhere and the empire does not have enough sith to turn the tides in battles that will be so stretched. the zerg are underestimated here

[@kaan_inal]

Haha. Kerrigan mind tricks stormtrooper :"these are not the infesteds you are looking for. Open the base gate!"

[@vladtheimpaler9577]

I think the fact that all Zerg are living weapons essentially being born fully armed and armored as well as being able to eat pretty much anything can be a significant factor as wars are often won by logistics.

[@Paddythelaad]

Logistics \o/ praise Agrippa, Napoleon etc

[@itsdabees]

This is lore-wise part of what makes zerg so scary. They EAT METAL and DRINK THE LIQUID FORM OF VESPENE GAS. They don't need an able population for soldiers. They don't need time or people to build and man ships or vehicles, they breed them when they need them and they're ready in a day. They feel no fear, only hunger. They need no comforts, only an overmind. They don't need ammunition, don't need sleep, or medical care. They don't need rations since they can just eat whatever they kill in battle and reconstitute whatever fallen zerg they bring back. They don't need 90% of the things we need to fight a war.

[@kurt-o0o]

Nerd and wisdom pilled

[@jamesestrella5911]

@@itsdabeeshuh? I believe they do sleep. Primal Zerg do, at least in the campaign, Zurvan definitely does.

[@RamArt9091]

The funny thing about StarCraft is that for how OP its factions look at times. . . Everything that ever happened in StarCraft happened in the Koprullu sector. The UED lost its expeditionary fleet but Earth was untouched. Who knows what other Xel'Naga creations are Lurking out there. Did the rest of the Galaxy even had an idea of Amon's attacks?

[@isimiel3405]

yeah who do you thing the bbeg for SC 3 is gonna be =P

[@jaeusa160]

I mentioned that for the Zerg, and hypothetically Star Trek, when it comes to scale. Star Wars largely operates on a scale a thousand times larger than the other franchises as its norm. Travel and Communication in particular. It completely sucks ALL fun out of these comparisons, but Star Wars tech covers distances franchises like Trek and Craft take years or decades to cross... in a manner of hours or days. You pretty much need to ignore those traits, lest the Emperor have the most ridiculous "Oh Crap" moment ever and send literally 15,000 Star Destroyers to converge on Infested Tattooine within a few days' time, tops. For whatever distance the UED needed to cross, I doubt it was a very large portion of their galaxy. The distance which might've been years for them might've been comparable to going from Naboo to Tattooine, or even Hoth to Bespin which was done without a Hyperdrive.

[@MajkaSrajka]

@@isimiel3405 >SC bbeg >Cries in SC1/broodwar

[@sneediumminer]

Even if the emperor immediately glassed every infested planet I doubt the most important core worlds would last very long That being said in sc1 the zerg were written as this unstoppable menace that effortlessly rolled over half the dominion core worlds, then proceeded to topple the canonically huge protoss empire overnight. And pretty much nobody except the UED was able to even contain the zerg without using the psi disruptor, much less take ground from them. They got a huge nerf in SC2 where raynor just pops on over to char and 1v1s kerrigan while the zerg swarm is at the strongest it ever was in the canon.

[@jaeusa160]

@@sneediumminer Then the Golden Armada exists in SC2 as well and it's just like "Why did we care about the Zerg again?"

[@GreaterGood258]

Funnily enough, the Empire's saving grace could end up being the clone troopers' old rival, the battle droid. While not terribly impressive on an individual level, they can be mass-produced on a frankly obscene scale (as the Empire knows all too well from the Clone Wars), new technological advancements can be incorporated and rolled out relatively swiftly, alternate versions and even entire new classes can be designed to counter specific threats, and they are 100% biologically inert meaning the Swarm can't infest, poison, or even eat them like they could storm troopers. Basically, an Uno Reverse Card to the Zerg.

[@boakley8147]

Or you could take the old b1s and reprogram them. Boom instant insane army

[@boakley8147]

Or you could take the old b1s and reprogram them. Boom instant insane army

[@wojciechwerner8787]

They still can hide small organisms inside a droid to serve as a trojan horse.

[@Photoloss]

IIRC most combat droid production was shut down and/or dismantled following the Clone Wars though, we certainly don't see many in the original trilogy. Also zerg *can* eat them, considering they use "Minerals" as their main resource.

[@epistemo3442]

I would like to see the Empire mass produce Phase III Darktroopers, that would completely annihilate everything Zerg. Considering that Phrik is such an extremely strong material that it can survive a blast from the Death Star. kzbin.info/www/bejne/rITNgnpoaJl9la8

[@nef36]

Normally I'd make some snide comment that zombies are almost never physically fit enough to perpetrate a zombie outbreak, but I think its pretty fun to note that StarCraft zombies would absolutely massacre normal civvie populations, what with their added armor from carapace, claws, extra agility, and ability to spread infections with injected larvae, rather than just zombies spreading it only. Honestly, I think you give "average joe with a blaster" too much credit here lol Edit: ...that being said, they'd still be a non-factor against any real military forces from the empire.

[@some_shitposting_idiot3023]

plus blasters are wildly inconsistent with killing unarmoured targets, nevermind armoured.

[@coatofarms4439]

The Empire does still have flamethrowers and chemical weapons which infested humans are still very weak to. Some also burn in sunlight so I still think they are lacking simply because of how weak the human body is as a base to work with. This is probably a reason why they were suicide bombers in the first game.

[@AmericanCaesarian]

The infested do not always burn in sunlight, that was only one WOL mission, in no other circumstance have infested burned in sunlight.

[@StrifeA217]

​@@coatofarms4439 I have to agree with all your points but this falls apart when you consider the vast array of species with starwars. Some of which come from high gravity worlds and are stronger and more durable as a resault than your average human. That and the augmented forces from assimilated creatures in the starwars galaxy I honestly think given a bit of time the swarm would crush though.

[@boakley8147]

The infested terrians only burned because of the star the world was orbiting. All other showings of them had them not burn

[@TheVoidIsCold]

I hope this isn't going to be a one-off thing. More Zerg content about fighting between them and other SciFi Factions!

[@sc2_Nightmare]

Zerg vs. Tyranids: No matter who wins, everyone else loses.

[@Techhunter_Talon]

Personally, I'd love to see how other Starcraft factions may fare against the Galactice Empire and maybe other Star Wars galactic civilizations.

[@rakisuzuki-burke4148]

@@sc2_Nightmare I am about 90% sure that the two would just assimilate into one swarm. And then everyone else loses.

[@lvo9197]

Zerg vs Imperium or Orks would be awesome

[@lvo9197]

@@sc2_Nightmare I feel like the shadow in the warp would disrupt zerg psychic powers, making them less efficient, and the Nyds would just eat them through sheer numbres. Zerg are more efficeint at absorbing biomass and integrating it into the swar though, if they focus on orks and eldar early to enhance their powers, they might have a shot.

[@Derekloffin]

I think the one thing seriously missing here is that the DS is vulnerable, not to a direct attack, but to infiltration, something the Zerg are known to do. It is vast with lots of places for an infected individual to get a foot hold and once they do, the inner defenses are pretty bad against the zerg. Even if protected by Vader or the Emperor, both could be exhausted and overwhelmed by shear numbers. So, it could easily fall. Since we're talking directly after the battle of Yavin, the DS II would at best be still in early construction and likewise vulnerable, especially given where it was built. And, if we follow your scenario, realistically there will be no more in the line as the empire simply won't have the resources to allocate to a third. I would also argue the zerg are likely to start adapting their space forces to the circumstances far quicker than the empire would adapt to them. That said, the empire does have one thing they could leverage which is the potential for battle droids which should be immune to infestation and can be mass produced and I could see them going that way once they realize their human forces just won't cut it and are actually a liability. Given the balance, the empire I think more times than not would lose the conflict. They'd put up a good fight, but ultimately would have to have a flawless defense on many key targets which they just haven't shown. Sooner or later something will slip through and they're likely to lose big assets that they just can't afford to lose to hold the stalemate. However, they do have the potential for victory as well, I just think on average they'd be on the losing side.

[@iamblight707]

The DS isn't the bulk of the empire 's firepower. Turbolasers dish out 2 gigawatts, so a volley from a star destroyer can put out twice the energy of a star each second. Only problem is that the energy is super concentrated, but the empire wouldn't have issues cracking worlds considering that they have 150,000 star destroyers in their prime, plus countless support ships and fighters. Then putting the dreadnoughts in the mix. Plus star destroyers are much faster than leviathans, which rely on their arms to do damage. Since they can damage each other, I feel leviathans would fall pretty quick to turbolaser fire. In other words, the sheer scale of the empire would be difficult to overcome for an enemy with very little means of being discrete aside from occasionally stowing away on an unsecure freighter. The empires only weakness is incompetence, but something big as the zerg will be ran by Thrawn, Palpatine, and Tarkin. At the height of their power, the zerg had like 50 planets. At the height of the empire, it has 1 million planets. I think the Empire takes this just on the sheer resources it can muster. Id say the zerg won't do much more than the killiks

[@SonnyAmbush]

Also there isnt exactly a fleet of Death Stars and though they are capable of hyper space travel, they arent exactly quick when it comes to sub light speed travel. Zerg infestation happens exponentially and we already established the fact that parasites traveling to high density population words would create massive and uncontrollable pockets of Zerg basically anywhere in the galaxy. Coruscant may be the end game for the Zerg, but the Star Wars galaxy has more than a few worlds that are basically mini coruscants. Nar Shaddaa would be an example of that. Also the fact is ignored that even imperial space ships could be infested. Think of our cruise ships and how diseases can spread on these. Also intel is a major factor here. While the swarm has access to easy ways to learn about political structures pretty much simply by talking or listening to ppl (given they eventually learn the languages), the empire would have to discover the swarm structures of the Zerg. and as long as they only fight individual planetary infestations I dont see much chance in that other by some stupid accident.

[@Derekloffin]

@@iamblight707 That's not supported by what is on screen. We've seen turbo lasers hitting right next unshield, unprotected, ground targets and beside the relatively small explosion of the impact, there is no signs of anything close to that strength. Now this is rare to be seen, but we've seen it (the most notable in the new canon being Thrawn's attack on the rebel base in Rebels, in the old canon the bombardment of the city during KOTOR where even massed fire was only causing conventional level impacts, among others). We've also seen that ground vehicle weaponry can destroy space ships in the clone wars and in attack of the clone and revenge of the sith which is canon in both and these vehicles are clearly no where even close to that level of firepower, so again it is inconsistent with their durability against turbo laser fire. And then there is the matter that while they have a huge number of star destroyers, they also have a huge number of things to protect with those star destroyers, hence why we don't see huge fleets ever. The biggest we ever seen was in the RotJ. They just can't concentrate much, and even if they for whatever reason abandoned this strategy, the zerg could easily force them right back into it by just making wide spread simultaneous attacks on now undefended worlds.

[@iamblight707]

@@SonnyAmbush I doubt the empire won't suddenly forget how to fight off a plague. The republic dealt with them for thousands of years, including plagues enhanced by bioweapons and sith alchemy. The empire dealt with blackwing, a zombie virus, fairly easily.

[@iamblight707]

@@Derekloffin it's the canon number. No guarantee they actually used turbolasers. They were more likely heavy laser cannons used for precision strikes. Thrawn wanted the rebel leadership alive, and the city of lothal mostly intact. And if you're talking about hoth, the ATATs weren't using turbolasers they used laser cannons. The ATTE destroyed the munificents because they were unshielded. Also, munificents are like 6x weaker than venerators, which are 3x weaker than ISDs. Also, even if the zerg travel anywhere near fast as star wars ships, which they don't, star wars ships can only safely travel through hyperspace lanes because of the high density of star systems. At best the zerg will sweep the outer rim (excluding hutt space and several powerful local navies) then the empire will get scared and delta zero every planet in the path of the zerg until they develop a bioweapon than neutralizes them. At worst the zerg will attack something the empire cares about first, and be wiped by by the fleet in a matter of hours. The infection to mutation rate is too high for the zerg to be unpredictable as it needs to be to seed enough worlds to be a threat. The empire has so many planets and so many resources, the zerg could take 100 planets, and not make a dent in the empire. The zerg are literally just angrier killiks.

[@Alwaysasherlok]

I think something that Grant didn't talk about was supply lines. The Republic and Empire both relied on a massive amout of supplies from the mid rim and outer rim. As such losing the outer rim and a large chunk of the mid rim would cause the Empire to buckle under attrition.

[@wasdwasd609]

Yeah honestly the Empire has no chance. You cant hand deliver Reaver ammo and not expect them to get fucked by air or burrowed units.

[@too_s0ber910]

Agreed! And not to mention the Empire would still face other threats while being stalked by the Zerg. With the Empire weakened, it's pretty likely that new rebel factions will try to fight the Empire even while this infestation was going on. Self-interested groups, like maybe the Hutts, and other pirate factions would raid and pillage systems that are now poorly defended in the weakening or flat-out absence of the Imperial navy. They would have to choose; reinforce shipping lanes to protect against pirate raids, which would weaken the forces needed to blockade the advance of the Zerg, or take forces away to strengthen the blockade and leave the merchants at the mercy of the pirates.

[@myduckisonqauck7227]

​@@wasdwasd609Imperial navy: 25,000 imperial 1 star destroyers, 4.8-36 million smaller warships(2,400-4,000 combat ships per sector(imperial sourcebook), 50+dreadnoughts(around 26 of which are executer classes), a sovereign class(continent/small moon busting laser), two eclipses(continent/small moon), over 263,000(Specter of the past) other star destroyers/similar sized ships, sun crusher(star buster, that tanked a death stat laser), 2 death stars, an extra death star prototype with a functional laser, 2 death star sized habitation spheres, a galaxy gun(snipe planets and ships from across the galaxy), metal crystal phase shifters(bypass shields to weaken hull integrity), the tarken,(planet buster), the conqueror(continent/small moon cracking super laser) and dozens of world devastators(can rip apart planets with tractor beam projectors, while tanking shots from capital ships. Can collect materials to upgrade/grow, and even create new world devastators). There was a plan to include super class star destroyers(8km) in many of the empires sectors. That is potentially 100s. There was also the assertor class(15km), bellator(7km), vengeance class(19km), and mandator III(12km). Imperial army: 10s of trillions(Rebellion era campaign guide, and Imperial sourcebook) Stormtrooper corps: 100s of millions-billions CompForce: 100s of billions(2nd edition sourcebook) Tanks/repulsorcraft: 2-9 Trillion Walkers: 10s of millions Fighters: 62 million- a few hundred million Territory: over a million, and a half full member worlds(rebellion era campaign guide,and 2nd edition source book) , and 5-70+ million colonies(Essential atlas), vessels, and protectorates. Han solo stated to Luke they would have to search six million inhabited systems, and an old republic comic stated the holonet connected six million worlds. 1,000s of sectors(imperial source book). Weapon damage: Turbolasers dish out megatons of superheated plasma, while laser cannons in the kilotons. The attack of the clones cross section states 200 gigatons a shot, and 6 megatons a shot but we treat it as an outlier(It also states turbolaser shots travel at light speed). Contrary to popular belief star wars shields do protect against projectiles/high velocity attacks. A super star destroyer's shields have tanked rebel cruisers jumping out of hyperspeed, and multi megaton hits from asteroids in an asteroid field. Deflector shields can produce ray shields(Physical/High velocity projectile weapons), and particle shields(energy based weapons). Both the 2nd edition sourcebook, and cross section tell us star destroyers are capable of turning the upper crust of planets into slag which we can believe. Carnor jax states an imperial star destroyer can make stone run like water, and turn sand into glass. Going by the bombardment of caamas, it takes several star destroyers to reduce a planet's surface twice the size of earth to molten slag in under twenty four hours. The E-11 is the equivalent of a 14.5mm round with enough heat to punch through a lightly armored or unarmored opponent, and in a new hope it vaporizes steel bars. The DLT-19 was capable of taking down lightly armored vehicles. The T-21 light repeating blaster fires the plasma bolt equivalent of a 22.5-30mm bullet from a guass rifle. Mercenaries using light blaster cannons shot through 4 inches of plasteel. T-21

[@myduckisonqauck7227]

​@@too_s0ber910Read above

[@sheilaolfieway1885]

meanwhile the swarm is using the outer rim for supplies and reinforcements growing more and more day by day.

[@sc2_Nightmare]

Can you imagine Abathur getting a hold of the remains of a Zillo Beast? Brutalisks would be child's play compared to that.

[@Tayvin4042]

OHHH frak I forgot about the Zillo beast aaah

[@Regunes]

I think it wasn't part of the canon here. But yeah

[@Tayvin4042]

@@Regunes Shows are part of the main canon, he included them.

[@CombatMagic]

Abathur: "Zillo creature, essence useful, massive amounts of biomass required, vulnerability to terran ion-based weapondry concerning. Need for experiment, supplement natural armor with ultralisk chitinous plating, disperse ionic energy. Good."

[@Leonhardt04]

hell yeah, The Zillolisk. the closest the Zerg can get to deploying Godzilla

[@ClericOfPholtus]

Huh How did I never question that Kerrigan's swarm travelled like halfway across the galaxy to get to Zerus in the first third of the campaign... That's crazy

[@nguyenphamthanhgiang8951]

Tbf if you play Brood War you will heard the Overmind mentions about warp traveling with the young cerebrate too

[@ClericOfPholtus]

@@nguyenphamthanhgiang8951 Yeah but all you hear is that your first trip will be unpleasant. Even then the first trip is still in Terran space; Tarsonis to Char with Char being a world in Terran territory but so horrible that no one stayed there

[@SenyiKimmo]

@@ClericOfPholtus There is a cutscene in starcraft showing the Overmind creating a warp rift to teleport the zerg forces to Aiur

[@ClericOfPholtus]

@@SenyiKimmo yes, I know. I've played the game like dozens of times over the last nearly 30 years. But Auir is still in the same area of space relatively, like it's part of the Khoprulu Sector. It's definitely far from the terran systems, but it's not as crazy as Zerus or Ulnar.

[@CombatMagic]

Because it's not mentioned in the games really, but in interviews as other material it was mentioned that Kerrigan going from Koprulu to Zerus and back took a couple of months~ (Not taking into account how much was the travel and how much was the subjugation of the primals) Also we do know that Zerus is in or close the galactic Core, while Koprulu is in the edges of the galaxy.

[@Makielia]

Why do I find thinking about stuff like this so fascinating? I love it! Lol I noticed 2 things that were missed that might be worth mentioning. 1) I understand the empire has planetary shields over the core worlds. Aren't those worlds the big city planets? So, which worlds make the FOOD for those big city worlds? Are there planetary shields over them? I can totally imagine the Zerg managing to overtake any "backwater planet" that produce major sources of food for the empire and basically starving the people to death. 2) From what I've seen in Star Wars, even when the empire is in full power, there's a lot of people/worlds that might follow the rules, but don't really like or support the empire. However, with a massive Zerg invasion of the galaxy, I'd imagine that any fence sitters (and even people who hate the empire) would suddenly throw all of their support to the empire for defending the galaxy. They might not be the kindest protectors in the galaxy, but the Empire would be the only hope the galaxy has of surviving. The people would recognize that and become more active than ever before in the support of the empire. The galaxy would finally become united in order to fight against the Zerg. (No, I don't imagine many would willingly join the Zerg.) What would a fully united Star Wars galaxy manage to accomplish I wonder?

[@matyaskout35]

To add to your point 1), galactic core is helplessly dependant on rim territories for resources and swarm could win by attrition in my opinion, simply starving off the Empire, if not on food, then on resources needed to run their military industrial complex

[@Bagginsess]

That's logic of 40k, the Empire of Man is cruel but it's better than being destroyed by the horrors or the warp or orcs.

[@rafaelfarias4359]

Kerrigan is also a persuasive leader. She would sow division among the subjects of the Empire, even finding allies among peoples ans worlds who were dissatisfied with the Empire. She did during the Brood War as she made both Raiders, Dominion forces and Protoss help her destroy the UED.

[@LegendStormcrow]

And even if she can't convince you to join, there are several ways for the swarm itself to take over bodies, imitate, or even mind control enemies.

[@rafaelfarias4359]

@@LegendStormcrow Indeed. But Kerrigan, specially before being dumbed down during SCII, was quite clever. While she could mind control, she could as well persuade, bribe and betray. While she could easily infest and/or mind control, nothing would stop her from sweetening the deal to get allies, or getting them/maintaining them cooperative by obtaining leverage. She offered Arcturus Mengsk his Dominion back, no strings attached (other than her later betrayal). She appealed to Raynor's feelings towards her (then assassinated his men, the Raiders' Protoss allies and Fenix). She also kidnapped (and corrupted) Matriarch Raszaghal to get the Dark Templar to cooperate with her in the mission to assassinate the fledgeling Overmind. All and all, she was the most competent and ruthless leader in the known SC universe.

[@nicklaschristensen6981]

I immediately thought of enemy within and how this infestation would crush the empire. If a farm boy can sneak into the Death Star, could a queen larva do the same and take down all the empires greatest weapons.

[@lepidusstupidius2956]

To be fair, enemy within took place on a ship that fled in a panicked and poorly guarded manner. Because of how hangars work, if an infestation got loose in the hangar they could probably jettison it if need be.

[@poilboiler]

Yeah infesting the people on board of the most important ships would be a very high priority.

[@laxcatthesleepycat2688]

Infesting the deathstar is the exact moment the empire looses, Kerrigan would see the value of the superweapon and defend it accordingly, unleashing its destructive power uppon the galaxy without much remorse

[@ralerxwinterstone2726]

​@@laxcatthesleepycat2688i am not sure about that. Using the death star weapon would be pretty counterproductive to the zergs as the only thing they want is to get more planets to assimilate so destroying them would be a bad idea for her. Maybe i could see her using it on a very few amount of planets but not much

[@marley7868]

they were allowed to escape the death star plus let's be real protoss security is terrible

[@The_whales]

The best way to defeat the empire is to spam 200 supply worth of marines, not play traditional Zerg let’s be real here

[@jamiereid7428]

With no Medivacs? 😱

[@jamiereid7428]

*Ultralisks enter the chat

[@jaeusa160]

The best way to defeat the Empire is to fire a single torpedo at their Artosis Pylon Power Generator and overload the entire thing into a chain explosion.

[@myduckisonqauck7227]

​@@jaeusa160One in a million shot

[@Boollish]

[sad Defiler noises]

[@chippy_the_monk]

Not the video I was expecting, but I’m not disappointed.

[@tntengineer2330]

You could say that it’s a surprise to be sure, but a welcome one. Lol

[@hebercluff1665]

​@@tntengineer2330we'll be watching his career with great interest.

[@kerndgaming7398]

Interesting thought: can Kerrigan or for that matter the Zerg leadership even be killed by the means the Empire has? Canonically in SC the Overmind and his Cerebrates could only be destroyed by "Dark Templar energies", which are a kind of psi-energy-stuff. The Force is not really this, is it? In SC2 there are ideas put forth that the Swarms body cannot truely be destroyed as long as there is "essence". now this is also hardly defined, but it is heavily hinted that basically everytime you kill the physical body of a Zerg it will simply hatch again at some hatchery as long as nothing messes with the essence. Only (some) Protoss and this weird XelNaga Artifact where able to do so. Even if we for arguments sake say that the Force is able to grant the power to forever destroy a certain Zergs essense (i.e. permanently kill Kerrigan, Stukov etc...), the empire only has 2 people capable of doing this. Darth Vader and Sidius have their work cut out for them, traveling from planet to planet in search of the boss Zergs... Another thing not considered is whether Kerrigans psi powers would be equal or stronger than the force. To me she would probably win a straight up fight against even the emporer in powers, as she regenerates much faster and probably has a lot more atrition. It is not seen in the games, but if you read some of the Starcraft books that explore the Terran "Ghost" (so what Kerrigan was before she evolved twice into something insanely more powerful in psi-abilities) and their skills, they can flat out think weaker minds to perish. Nova, the pseudo follow-up Ghost to Kerrigan in the Terran Dominions Army was able to just think her target dead over a few miles away. Meanwhile Kerrigan is labled as the strongest Psionic in the Starcraft Universe by the Dominon - a class 13 Psionic Lifeform (or whatever the number was) Imagine Kerrigan starts using that shit - just thinking armies dead. We do not know if she is incapable of it or if she didnt really try it because of Protoss being around all the time, who have stronger minds than weak Terrans (or in this application Stormtroopers?). The numbers war would also be interesting, I wonder whatever happened to Droid and Clone Armys - can the empire still produce them if push came to shove and humanity fears this weird bug infastation, some reluctant citizens that did not enjoy the Dictatorship, might suddenly have less problems with old Palpatine? Then there is the problem of attrition. Once the empire retreats into its coreworlds - how will it sustain them? with trade and resources from the Outer Rim basically gone, I think many of the core worlds will ultimately start to revolt. Hungry people make for bad subjects. Add to this, that at some point the Empires army may run out of skilled workforce and soldiers, as they need years to train new personell to the skill level the persons they replace had... Zerg have the hugest advantage here, as it seems to take little to no time to replace Zergling X Ultimately, Im not sure if the empire really stands the chance you give them in the video, because all they can hope for is destroying every planet that isnt "clean" with the Death Star (or similair shit) and would ultimately end up destroying themselves in their effort to remain in power with their iron grip. wow this got a lot longer than I intended for at first... respect to those who took the time to read my 2 cents

[@TheShadow6391]

Man ... lets try to keep it lore accurate somewhat. Kerrigan cant "think armies dead" .. or you know she'd do it constantly against terrans at least. Do you really wanna take out full powered Legends Palpatine? Hint: he's somewhere planet cracker level if I recall, being able to create warp storms in different part of the galaxy. That's a bit more (by a landslide) than what even Primal Kerrigan could do (not talking ascended xel naga) . Also there are not only 2 force sensitive people in the Empire. Given the circumstance (human race wipe out scenario) sith and jedi would join hands. So you get Luke, Leia, other jedi in hiding, and a restored Vader (keep in mind Palpatine keeps him weak for a reason) You're downplaying the empire insanely. The zerg merely covered 2-300 worlds at peak? Empire is millions of worlds. They are more advanced in tech than terrans were too. ... and their leaders can see the future trough the Force. It would not be in zerg's favour.

[@МихаилРыбаков-ф6б]

@@TheShadow6391 I think Kerrigan's forces would be heavily outgunned and outmaneuvered in space, which is the thing that matters. Startcraft FTL is slower, Star Wars one is absurdly fast. Her chance I think would be assimilating this tech somehow (might not be possible organically), and/or taking Empire from within, dominating/infesting/recruiting people like Thrawn and other admirals to be servants/pawns, assimilating Vong (if they exist within setting we imagine) by assassinating and masquerading as their leadership (zerg can mutate to look like anything outside with skill and effort), and take control of Empire from within by ambushing the Emperor (that would only work depending on their respective skills in divination/anti-divination/stealth) and replacing him, maybe with help of previously converted Vader (for whom Kerrigan can easily regrow limbs after he's infested). Then Empire and the galaxy is hers to take at her leisure, but that's only if Vader and Emperor don't discover and burn her beforehand. Without Kerrigan with her psionics including infiltration abilities like invisibility, Zerg would be just particularly nasty decease/critters I think. Unless zerg infestation can be controlled from light years away, in which case it could remind the Flood scenario... but I doubt zerg are that strong with zerg virus, otherwise they could assimilate terrans easy enough already with small infiltration units - which they don't and can't, and need to be physically present to infest and mutate for assimilation/enslavement/recruitment.

[@TheShadow6391]

@@МихаилРыбаков-ф6б I agree with the points made. Also I would possibly argue Vader/Palpatine would be extremely difficult to infest/mind control. They are after all incredibly well trained and disciplined. We're not talking some random human, they are beyond human condition and both transcend death (vader as a ghost, palpatine SOMEHOW returned etc) (well palpatine learns to clone and spirit trasfer himself) . They could surely infest other officers, but these 2 would be big no no imo. As you mentioned they are not able to mass infest terans/protoss that openly fight them. Why would they be able to do so with the Empire. Also the infested are not particularly dangerous compared to regular zerg ... they are zombies more or less. So planets with a military presence would not fall easily. This topic is much like Imperium vs Tyranids in 40k (both sides are beefed up however). And Tyranids still dont win/or not without major efforts and heavy losses.

[@lukaskrivda9374]

@@МихаилРыбаков-ф6б the problem is that that isnt how kerigen fight , she go and fight her enemy like she did to raynor at WOL , and narud menks and amon later on , she would attck them head on and before she would realize how much this is stomp she would already be dead

[@jhtrq1465]

There is one annoying trope that is never really considered in those kind of situation, that hyper-specialized relying on trade planets are stupid. I mean, ok, it's kind of metaphore of the globalization happening on Earth, but if you really think about it, it makes no sense. A city planet like Corusant would still be able to produce the massive quantities of food, basic resources and manufactured goods to sustain a very large population and a thriving economy, even producing warships and whatever the Empire need. The sheer scale of a planet is often not really well pictured in SciFi in general, they are more treated as country or a besieged castle. But there is not really such thing as besieging a whole world, it won't really run out of food, water, resources or means of production in a meaningful timescale. Usage of hydroponics for food, fusion energy, and deep mining are kinda basics techs in those kinds of setting. It's fair to imagine that the Empire would have some hard times at the beginning to transition his economy from a globalized trade-focused one to a more isolationist. If they manage to keep control of their planets and their stellar system they are into, they can hold firm against the Swarm for really long. One thing that could happen with this, is that the Empire disintegrate, because of this isolationism into a bunch of "City-States" each stellar system or planet becoming his own entities.

[@planescaped]

Now I am just picturing Luke turning off his targeting computer, missing, and the sound of crickets as it pans to reaction shots of all the rebels before Dodonna bellows *FUUUUUU* and the music cuts him off as credits roll. Best ending.

[@Marconius6]

Every single time the Zerg have been defeated in canon, it has been due to their leaders dying: whether it's Cerebrates being assassinated by Dark Templar, Kerrigan being purged, or the Ganthritor being steered into a collision course with the Overmind. I imagine the Empire (and any remaining Rebels and Jedi) would try something similar this time too; it's how the plot usually tends to go...

[@wmzer0mw]

Yes but how the leaders died made that especially impossible to do. You needed specifically DT energy to do any of those kills, and there arent any Xelnaga artifacts here to purge kerry. Theres no way the empire will win this.

[@SenyiKimmo]

@@wmzer0mw Still, you could target individual broodmothers repeatedly. They're pretty hardy in their own right but are still no Kerrigan. Teams of assassins that hunt down broodmothers could prove to cause significant turmoil in the Swarm's power structure, as more stress is put on the link between Kerrigan and lower level queens. As for how well they can actually do this? Well, I dunno. The Empire could prove to be shockingly good at it, or Broodmothers could prove to be able to defend themselves even if caught completely off-guard.

[@wmzer0mw]

@@SenyiKimmo Possible but doubtful. The zerg are still a hive mind, the minute a brood mother or 2 disappears, the hive will recognize it and develop counter measures, even without actually being anywhere near there. Abathur was able to do that in the evolution bonus missions where he can influence remote planet evolutions.

[@theeviloverlord7320]

yeah, the only real way the zerg could lose is a plucky ragtag band of 3-5 assorted rebels on a suicide mission

[@SenyiKimmo]

@@theeviloverlord7320 Belly of the Beast:

[@alexm9603]

1:07 I laughed wayyyy too hard when he said tactics and just showed General Duke.

[@Toast_94]

Where'd you study tactics, boy?

[@mookerz1383]

This was fun to watch! I was thinking, when you mentioned the devastation a single larvae could wreak by sneaking onto a starship... The Zerg could just win this hypothetical war by infesting Coruscant by ACCIDENT. A Planet of the Apes type ending (the Andy Serkis one) could easily run amok and quickly find its way to the inner planets.

[@isaacgraff8288]

Another 'win' I can see the Zerg getting is Time. Palpatine is old, Vader is aging. Zerg don't really age. There were Primal Zerg (still alive in game) who were around when Amon took and corrupted the Overmind.

[@braalkmath]

@@isaacgraff8288 True, although Palpatine (even in old canon) had multiple contingencies for his death, and was actively researching how to circumvent it. It is not impossible for Sith to live for a really long time (Darth Krayt for example).

[@iamblight707]

The problem is...the zerg can't even handle their own, substantially smaller galaxy. They occupied like 50 planets in their prime, to the Empires 1.5 million. The Imperial fleet also has the advantage in range, firepower, and speed. I think the zerg would get lost in star wars. In fact, the zerg already exist in Star Wars. There's the Killiks dark nest, the Raguul plauge, and that zombie bioweapon virus. None of them are superpower factions at any point in history. Killiks came close but were crushed by a former vassal of the empire, despite getting help.

[@iamblight707]

@@isaacgraff8288 Palpatine could just body swap in both Canon and Legends. I doubt they'd be a significant threat more than 50 years at a time anyway, more of a looming menace that keeps returning because they can't completely get rid of it.

[@devindeocharan8323]

​@iamblight707 That was do to a few factors, prime among them being the difference between the Overmind and your standard hivemind supreme intellgence. The Overmind was one that did not belive in waste, one that was focused upon perfection, to achieve the greatest ability out of themselves and their children. Alongside that, we never saw the full scale of swarms war with the Protoss, however we do know the protoss covered a notable portion of the galaxy

[@bobsterss]

less than a minute in, and you put up Edmund Duke's face when mentioning "Tactics" Grant, you're too good at this!

[@laskghlkasghksdhg]

I really liked your balance between fan-theory and grounded observations (about fictional things). It creates a balance that encourages discussion without sounding either too overblown or too pretentious. Thank you for this thought exercise!

[@Corsair-Mandrake]

I think that if a infestor made its way to the under city of Coursant then the empires in a lot of trouble. The massive population and mostly unmonitored lower levels have lots of potential and given how easy it is for infestations to pop up its incredibly dangerous for the Empire

[@nonya1366]

The under city of Coursant might genuinely kill the infestor. It's pretty bad down there. Like really bad. But if it's in the criminal underworld levels, it has a pretty good chance. But the underworld levels sometimes has to deal with the things in the deeper levels coming *up* sometimes, so a Infestor might be doable for them.

[@sneediumminer]

Yeah this basically turns into tyranids vs imperium and we all know how that usually pans out

[@SephirothRyu]

@@sneediumminer Usually with the Imperium losing and having to exterminatus hundreds of planets and sacrifice large numbers of irreplaceable ships and barely replaceable ships to stop the particular hivefleet of the century. Never again getting those planets back the way they were, as they are all now barren or hellscapes. Sure, they stop them, but each time costs significant resources they never get back.

[@madsword19]

Just hand it a death stick.

[@nonya1366]

@@madsword19 If a zergling gets high off deathsticks, does the entire hivemind get high off deathsticks?

[@nathanielskinner6868]

Fun video. The Galactic Empire vs NonForce swarms was explored in the Yuzhong Vong invasion in the legacy books. Seeing as both civs can be played in RTS games, I think it would be feasible for someone to mod one or the other to show this conflict. :D

[@eydis9554]

7:22 "The Empires focuses on the core of well-trained and equipped Stormtroopers." *Shows stormtrooper bonking his head*

[@lucasm.3864]

But it was a well-trainer bonk.

[@1.-ulysses334]

You can see the calculated presition of that bonk. 10/10, one of the bonks of all time.

[@too_s0ber910]

I didn't know about the head-bonk for the longest time. For years after watching A New Hope. Learned about it from the internet only a years ago and was like, "What? No way. There's NO WAY they left that in the movie!" Immediately fired up the movie, fast-forwarded to the scene, and promptly died laughing because it was true. And I LOVE that they left it in! XD

[@aleccampbell7707]

"only Stormtroopers can be so accurate.."

[@lhfirex]

Stormtrooper 1 to stormtrooper 2: "Looks like you ran over some feller's wamprat, Sarge."

[@xelnagaprime_1071]

This makes me want to see a battle between a couple Leviathans and the Death Star. A Leviathan could probably drop zerg on the Death Star, maybe even a hatchery if they're so inclined. From there, nydus' burrow in and raise hell.

[@etsaru9553]

this actually raises a solid point, in that the Empire's point defense has always been lacking. After all like 5 wings of fighters were able to seriously threaten a Moon sized base. What would a few thousand drop pods do to the death star?

[@L_______]

first the deathstar has shields and could one shot it its also constantly protected by alot of ships unless they have codes to enter they would be blasted before they get anywhere near the deathstar

[@skeptic_lemon]

@@L_______ The first Death Star can fire I think every 24 hours. It can kill one invading leviathan. Not two.

[@terran6686]

⁠​⁠​⁠@@L_______That would be a lot more true if the entire defensive complement of the DS1 didn't utterly fail to protect the station against an insignificant number of snub fighters. Millions of AA guns, hundreds of shield layers, and thousands of fighters all failed to stop 29 rebel fighters, a space truck, and an actual crop duster pilot. A Dark Lord of the Sith barely lifting a finger to slay these amateurs got as many on screen kills as the collective economic might of the Galactic Empire. No kidding Vader thought the station was a joke.

[@L_______]

@terran6686 well first the rebels knew the only weak point in the deathstar that the empire didn't really know about But more significantly they failed against plot Like so many before and after it Like how the forerunners somehow failing to stop the flood while a significantly less technologically advanced somehow could defeat it

[@seanshepherd1071]

This is an incredibly clean and fun analysis, but I think it's important to remember that the Empire's technology is either on-par with or outright weaker than Protoss tech, and the protoss *with* the Golden Armada spent half a decade building up before even trying to retake Auir, which was only occupied by a moderate force of enthralled zerg, nowhere near the might of the unified swarm. Protoss have spent centuries perfecting the exact weapons needed to combat zerg, and still struggle to succeed outside of orbital bombardment. Their primary tactic is total planetary annihilation, and all that leaves the empire with is a growing pile of dead rocks. Lore Zerg have been stated to be pretty much immune to any type of chemical or radiation attack. In the abscence of psionic capability, their literal only vulnerability is being too physically mangled to keep fighting, whether by plasma, fire, blade, or bullets. The empire's weapons are almost universally plasma-based guns (that they call lasers).

[@Tiberium10332]

I'm not sure if Darth Vader would even help in ground battles. Banelings and roaches would be highly problematic. A lightsaber does not protect you against acid spray. While his suit provides some resistance against acid, it may not be enough, especially in a prolonged fight or with Abathurs work.

[@lucasm.3864]

While that’s a possibility, this would have to be the first time the Empire has ever encountered them and they would need to ambush Vader alone in massive numbers. Otherwise he’d be smart enough to use the Force against them and rely on his precognition to avoid any other ambushes. It’s definitely a possible win con, but not reliable enough to happen more than a few times.

[@fulguratingbean9489]

Vader can probably force push the banelings away.

[@COIN_a]

@@fulguratingbean9489 How many hunterlings can he stop? Or the acid from troopers who shot down hunterlings in self defense?

[@Trygorn]

unlike the movies though Vader would likely be moving with his elites and once the threat of acid is known they would take a more cautious approach and blast em at range, plus his force power would still work on em but yeah banelings would cause hella damage

[@zennim125]

nah, vader can even dive on lava, he can use the force to shield him from anything, acid, flame throwers, anything

[@gonkdroid4603]

I think that the Death Star is a lot less invincible than you imply, while the Zerg would have trouble breaking it in a conventional space battle, any Zerg managing to board it would spell doom for the poor stormtroopers and crewmen who now have to deal with Zerg in CQC

[@sheilaolfieway1885]

and then be infested

[@matthiasrasmussen9998]

Imagine an infested deathstar, with all the strength of zerg combined with the devistation of the deathstar, gl fighting that empire o_O

[@BlackRedDead1943]

...while they have actually no or only few means for actual CQB anyway - a zerg swarm isn't exactly a few pesky Jedi's, it's a completely different threat! - i don't see stormtroopers standing any chance against even a few zerglings when terran marines are already bubblegum to chew trough xP Okay, lets give them plasma shot's aka "Laser Bolts" actually being more effective than bullets, they still have the issue of their armor not exactly doing much against projectiles of any kind, so just a few Hydralisks and the groundbattle on the deathstar is over. The only thing i see the empire being superior is space battles, i don't see the Zerg expanding any further into core worlds, as they would long be dispatched by even patrol forces - the Zerg aren't exacly that tough without their Numbers in Ground&Air Combat - and never had to fight against Plasma Weaponry aka "Laser Bolts", so even if we grand a theoraticly "armor" capability against those, they would need to evolve it first - by that time the Empire would likely have them hunted down, with no other threats than maybe civil unrests that could indeed bind forces, there's to plenty of Imperials that in this case start to outmatch the Zerg Armada and thus would likely kick them out before they even had a chance to spread to other worlds - and Tattoine would certainly serve as a new Alderaan - i mean srsly, the Zerg are a Ground combat focused faction, while the Empire is a Space focused one wich also has a freakin deathstar and no hesitation to just blow infested planets up, with the only limiting factor of it's slow hyperspace speed and that there's like only 2-3 of them troughout the universe - so unless the Zerg spread faster (and mind you, for that they HAVE TO travel trough space!) than the Empire can blow up infested planets, the Zerg loose. - no denial the Zerg would Win most Ground battles unless fighting against fortifications (they lack any actual siege weapons - yes i'm aware of ultralisks, they are still limited in capabilities while the empire can trow bombs at them! - Zerg win trough numbers, not their inherent limited capabilities! - and even Zerg reproduction is limited, also don't forget there is no vespin gas, so a substitut would be needed! - still, most non-heavily defended planets would fall just like in the Starcraft universe.)

[@hanneswiggenhorn2023]

It all comes down to if the Zerg would be able to penetrate the shields and armor of the death star. And honestly I kind of doubt they would have the firepower necessary for that. Star Wars shields just seem to me like something the Zerg just aren't equipped to deal with

[@sheilaolfieway1885]

@@hanneswiggenhorn2023 yet they can easily deal with protoss plasma sheilding. also most star wars shields are build to deal mostly with energy attacks like laser fire. even though star wars 'lasers' are plasma. while protoss plasma shields protect from both energy and kinetic

[@imofage3947]

My money is on the Swarm. Their adaptability and scale, combined with the abundance of terrifying predatory creatures in the SW galaxy for Abathur to play with would overwhelm the bulk of the Imperial forces. Sidious and Vader would undoubtedly present a challenge, but that challenge is significantly reduced when cut off from their powers. Thrawn was known to carry a creature with such an ability as a pet. It came from an area not explored by the Empire. Thinking about the force, Kerrigan's abilities already look extremely similar to several dark side powers. She's fueled by rage, projects lightning, crushes and strikes with telekinesis, levitates, and one of her primal abilities even taps into the light side by healing herself and her party. The only basic force powers she lacks are the short and long-term precognition. Given the overlap, it's questionable if Abathur could find a way to use the force to further augment the Swarm. However, infestation of gifted force sensitives would allow Kerrigan to add additional hero units to her ranks. I tend to think that none of these force sensitives would be on her level because she literally redefined the psionics scale, twice, in her home universe. If a trained force user like an Inquisitor, surviving Jedi, or the Bendu were captured and infested, then things could get interesting. Kerrigan's raw power, tempered by the focus of a force user would be a powerful combination.

[@firesturmgaming]

Yeah, I remember in WoL she was classified as a Class 12 psionic. In Hots, there is a scene where she speaks with Valerian Mengsk, the adjutant announces that she is a Class 14 psionic.

[@mryellow6918]

@@firesturmgaming now imagine you start infesting / using star wars races biology, it wouldnt take too long to start to notice the affect of midiclorians. mabye some zerg going rogue or acting strange. now a little tinkering to introduce midiclorians in to the full zerg army she now can control the large force of midiclorians as basically one single biological entity. think about how amped malak got from a few jedi.

[@Viper607706]

I think the swarm would win aswell, though it'd honestly just be through numbers and how warp rifts aren't limited to hyperspace lanes, granting her basically dominion over half the galaxy she can use to just annihilate the other half.

[@magni5648]

Scale? This is one of these matchups in which it's the Zerg that may well be outscaled. The Empire is a true galactic-scale entity, and has the communications and logistics to rapidly mobilise and shift around those resources. Singular combatants, even ones like Vader or Palpatine, are an afterthought compared to a military-industrial complex that can build a fucking moon-sized battlestation in a couple months and with a fraction of it's budget so small that the whole thing can be done in secret. Like, holy shit, the entirety of Mengsks' Dominion would amount to a rounding error compared to this.

[@imofage3947]

​@@magni5648 Sorry, scale of growth rate. You've fallen into the trap of assuming perfect intelligence. Palpatine could not pin down the Rebellion and had to bait them into a desperate all-in attack. And most Imp officers scoffed at the idea of a galactic-wide rebellion until somewhere in the Rebels series. They would scoff at the idea of the Zerg being a galactic threat too. Save for Dahaka and his pack, the Zerg are a Hive Mind with a singular leader. Everyone else is linked to the hive mind and independent thought is limited to named characters. This makes the chain of command rather short. The outcome of a galactic campaign sould probably depend more on the Zerg starting location than starting forces. Core world, Imp victory low-diff. Mid-rim world, Imp victory mid-diff. Outer-rim world, Zerg get a fair shake. Unknown Region or Outer-rim world near there, Zerg favored. Deep in the Unkonwn Region, Zerg heavily favored. Any hostile local fauna actually increases the Zerg's chances because it's something for Abathur to assimilate. If an Ultralisk is dangerous, then a Swarm-enhanced Krayt Dragon will be a city-buster. Zerg are adept at hiding with their Burrow ability. If left alone for long enough, 1 drone, 350 minerals, and a minable starting location is plenty to take over any given planet. If any Zerg colony reaches Dropperlord tech, it can functionally launch further planetary invasions. Each Dropperlord can drop off 8 drones which means 1 average base, or up to 8 slow bases. The Zerg Swarm can capture planets and exploit resources much more quickly than the Empire because their basic Hatchery is a fully functional resource refinery as well as logistical hub and training center. Zerg warp travel allows them to more freely travel between planets than Hyperspace lanes. We know from SC lore that a Zerg infestation can go from planetfall to operational Hive Cluster (not Hive tech) covering dozens to hundreds of square miles in 72 hours with overwhelming numbers of defenders. And that was implied to be on a single-base economy. It's hard to say what that equates to in game time. A greedy Eco-focused build order can take 14/16 base locations inside of 10 minutes game-time if no resistance is present. That should easily allow for full planetary control in a matter of weeks lore-time unless stiff resistance is encountered. Most Imperial worlds outside of the inner core will not be capable of offering that kind of resistance beyond the borders of major settlements. The nearest analogous gameplay we have in the SW universe is Empire at War which plays vastly differently from SC. EaW has an even simpler resource system based on credits. The Swarm doesn't care about the DS blowing up planets. That just makes the difficult-to-reach resources in the deep crust of the planet easier to access. For buildable area, they can use a collection of large asteroids. A BDZ attack might not be enough to render a planet useless to the Swarm. They convert minerals into biomass and routinely tunnel deep into planetary crust. Accessing resources might still be possible.

[@DrakonLameth]

As you brought up the novel at the end, I had to laugh, because Zahn's a prolific Star Wars author, having written a lot in the Legends-canon before Disney bought LucasArts, and a fair amount since, especially with his "canon to both" antagonist, Grand Admiral Thrawn.

[@gabagool44]

LOL didn’t even realize

[@FrumpleJames]

Also fun because I think a win is much more achievable for the Empire if Thrawn is a piece on the board. He's much more willing to use surgical strikes and recon to probe the swarm. He also demonstrably knows how to counter the kind of subterfuge the swarm would initially employ and he'd be much more invested in learning how they work prior to engaging

[@astecheee1519]

​@@FrumpleJamesI bet he'd broker a peace. Failing that, he'd convince part of the swarm to side with the Empire, and use it to beat the rest.

[@snakeman830]

@@astecheee1519 It's impossible to cause a civil war in the zerg without killing Kerrigan.

[@astecheee1519]

@@snakeman830 A psi disruptor is a pretty effective piece of technology.

[@Ulmaramlu]

Also, don't forget that some species are immune to the force in one way or another (invisibility vs precognition, immunity to mind tricks, so on). The Zerg would pick up on that quickly.

[@iamblight707]

If the force and psionics are the same, these creatures might be immune to the swarm's influence. They could probably get the virus, but they might not be controllable.

[@Conservative_crusader]

25 000 star destoriers >

[@Droski-Boutta-Bag]

The only species that's immune to the force is the yrsmari (ik i butchered the name) and their located in the deep core if I remember right

[@jand.4737]

besides immunity to the Force, there also are species immune to Lightsabers and Blaster Fire. Idk, if the late Republic/early Empire already hunted them to extinction to manufacture their improved Clone/Stormtrooper armors, but if the Zerg Swarm would find some of them, they would have the ability to evolve a "Tank" that is immune to blaster fire, forcing the empire to use more unconventional kinetic weaponry.

[@iamblight707]

@@jand.4737 Ground combat would be barely relevant strategically. In total war, the empire would destroy any continent world with significant infestation in a matter of hours. Strategically important centers like shipyards and critical hyperspace points would be fortresses in space and on the ground. Plus the zerg would have to not only find but subdue these beast, and there's no guarantee they'd be allowed to spread around that much without resistance once they attack the Empire.

[@slothman3727]

There is something really interesting that wasn’t considered here. Because you specifically chose the Zerg before their battle on Korhal, we are working with a “good” Kerrigan. This Kerrigan isn’t corrupted by outside powers and is capable and willing to work with others. I could see the Zerg making allies and sparing people, this could cause traitors to appear in the empire. On a side note. Kerrigan is the Anakin Skywalker of StarCraft. A beyond powerful psychic (force user) told in prophecy to destroy evil and bring balance to the galaxy/universe.

[@soujemn5]

Yeah, the scenario laid out required Kerrigan to be a murder hobo but took the Kerrigan most likely to track down the rebel hold outs and get rid of the Empire the smart way. I don't think the Empire has a chance when an even scarier space wizard is stepping up to the plate to kick their ass.

[@aj2228]

what if darth vader is kerrigan's father?

[@RifetOkic]

Spoiler alert ‼️ ❓

[@aj2228]

@@RifetOkic what spoiler?

[@soujemn5]

@@RifetOkic Legacy of the Void was 8 years ago my guy

[@doomsdayng]

One thing to note - the Empire needs to eat, which requires infrastructure and trade. The Zerg can - and have - resorted to cannibalism in cases of low resources. In a war of galactic-level attrition, the Zerg would inevitably win.

[@Lunaraia]

Zerg doesn't need to cannibalize, they can eat Creep.

[@Viper607706]

Aye, In a war of attrition, it's inevitable that the overharvested and densly populated core worlds, where there would be enough defenses to fend off an invasion, would be cut off from the resource rich outer rim... plus... zerg don't have to care about hyper lanes.

[@papapalps2415]

​@@Viper607706You're understanding of both these franchises is utterly pathetic.

[@AmericanCaesarian]

24:00 there are a million ways this plays out, and only one of them is an imperial victory. Maybe one or two are stalemates, the rest are varying degrees of zerg victory

[@boberboberowski3411]

considering how stupid the Galactic Empire is at times - yes. That being said, Zerg in both SCI and SCII make a lot of weird decisions as well, so imo the winner is not obvious, tho I still would say zerg have the upper hand

[@coatofarms4439]

Is the Empire really that stupid though? The Zerg are constantly beaten by former prisoners who use the equivalent of scrap metal guns from 40k. Even still they develop their own technology to control of destroy the Zerg. I don't think the Empire is anywhere near the level of incompetence that a bunch of American convicts would have.

[@pougetguillaume4632]

Ok but are the zerg stupid enough to build a troop transport that's hanging 10 meters into the air... Yes i just described the AT AT I think ground zerg would eviscerate the empire and it's not even close because of how pathetically lacking in ground forces the empire actually is

[@jaeusa160]

@@pougetguillaume4632 To be fair to an AT-AT, it is armored and shielded enough that all the conventional anti-siege weaponry the main fortress of the Rebellion had cannot take one down. Most energy shields just don't do much against physical objects, thus the convoluted but effective toe cable solution. Very much a running theme with Imperial technology. Works wonders against other large scale and large power adversaries, not very good against lower tech physical solutions. That said, no, the Empire just does the Wings of Liberty Mothership mission with a local Star Destroyer. For as much crap as was given to the Protoss fleet's reputation, the Zerg couldn't even stop Tassadar from manually ramming the Gantrithor into their most heavily foritified position in the galaxy: The defenses of the Overmind. (To be fair, this was retconned to the Overmind wanting it to happen.) But they're not going to stop something with the firepower of a standard Star Destroyer bombarding from orbit while repeatedly being acknowledged as having zero chance at in-space superiority. I mean the Golden Armada is considered to be pretty darned Zerg slaying and implacable, and it is just nowhere near the might of the Imperial Navy. To the Zerg's credit though, they did break at least the Xel'Naga's observational positions from the surface of Char, killing almost the entirety of the Xel'Naga in the process... but how much of that is actual Xel'Naga or survived retcons is anyone's guess, as I'm sure it was retroactively masterminded by Amon these days so who knows what degree of assistance he'd provided for that feat. The lore for all these series can turn into some real jumbled messes.

[@pougetguillaume4632]

@@jaeusa160 *laughs in gravity and in exposed unarmored neck joint* I'm sorry i'll never end making fun of how silly the damn thing is... it can't even turn properly, is physically uncapable of going above jogging speed (becuase leg joints can't bend any further) and the fact its guns are forward facing instead of on a turret just makes things worse. You say the empire was designed against near peer adversaries and i disagree, i think the empire only successes were *because* they were fighting an outgunned ennemy. The tie fighter uses the eyeball mark 1 and yet they had the brilliant idea of hiding the pilot's vision with 2 big solar panels... absolutely BRILLIANT The ewok winning is the most credible military feat of the OT trilogy fight me.

[@1.-ulysses334]

@@pougetguillaume4632 No, they make super huge four legged rhinos too big to get in the fight. completelly outsmarted the empire with that one. Wait it gets better, they also made an organism capable of infesting entire colonies, that gets killed by man with gun because the super advanced organism can't attack. Wait, wait, They also made the guys that comunicate the orders from the leader to everyone else giant floating air ballons that explode with a couple of missiles.

[@juanospitia]

9:50 the idea of kerrigan and stukov just hanging around as they investigate is hilarious and cool lmao

[@Schproemftell]

I think the zerg would immediatly try to take over the Deathstar once it blasted one foot hold Not to mention that the zerg once before rather easily cnoquered a "citadel" a absurdly hard defended Planet namely Tarsonis and as you said they where about to attack Korhal while simultaneously laying siege on the entire Dominion so Corruscant or any other Citadel world wouldnt be much of an issue and taking over the Deathstar would effectively be a dwath sentence to the Empire

[@me67galaxylife]

and lose all their leviathans to low yield deathstar blast and its escorting fleet, because the zerg would clearly be taken more seriously than the rebellion.

[@alphadios2003]

Also the swarm does in fact have a good counter for aerial/space craft. They are called scourges, and can be spawned both on land and in space. On land they can either be born out of eggs like most of the zerg breeds, there are dedicated structures called Scourge nests, and also the Leviathan is able to spawn them. They are little, for spacecraft level, creatures that can eat the hull and explode on contact. Nasty things.

[@iamblight707]

Good counter would be the sonic detonator Jango Fett used on Kenobi.

[@soujemn5]

@@iamblight707 okay, one down, there are still a dozen closing on your cruiser

[@iamblight707]

@@soujemn5 Because the empire can only afford one when Jango could pump 3 on a random Jedi for shits and giggles? Clearing a path through the astroid field I might add.

[@soujemn5]

@@iamblight707 i think you're missing the issue. a sonic detonator would be roughly as effective as any large vehicle munition you'll never kill all the scourges in time, that's why they're used as anti-armor weapons

[@iamblight707]

@@soujemn5 It smashed astroids into smithereens but whatever. I raise you shadow missiles used on YV hoards. Detonation is 1km wide and they vaporise all matter within because it's a fusion reaction, more powerful than fission bombs. They were produced en mass and used by every ship down to fighters. And yes they are still cannon. Zerg swarms would have to either spread out, where they'll be harder to control and have less of a punch do to the loss of the combined mass, or they'll be wiped out in droves.

[@hunterb412]

I love that you took a risk with this video. I had SO much fun watching this! You laid everything out so beautifully. GG I hope this video does well so Grant can do more outside of the box videos. Please share this video ❤

[@stevenclark2188]

I also think at some point Kerrigan and the swarm would figure out that the empire can't easily produce more star destroyers and would take them out in boarding actions. The empire would quickly lose the resources to make any more as they contracted.

[@Doomfoolable]

why couldn't they make more? They created a second Death Star in a matter of a couple years after the first one exploded, replacing a few thousand star destroyers is NOTHING compared to that.

[@tylerorr3851]

@@Doomfoolable I think you answered your own question. They couldn't replace them so easily because they were replacing the death star.

[@TrixterTheFemboy]

@@Doomfoolable Even with all that production, getting the resources and manpower to make Star Destroyers faster than the Zerg can just fly swarms of scourge into them wouldn't be easy.

[@MolochDE]

@@TrixterTheFemboy Tie Fighter seem to be the perfect craft to pick of Scourge though, would be like a critical mass of corsairs that don't need to be afraid anymore.

[@SenyiKimmo]

@@MolochDE The issue with this is that TIE Fighters will have to contend with Mutalisks, which themselves are incredibly annoying batshit creatures that fly around like maniacs and beat the shit out of fighter craft. Oh and they tend to fight in flocks. Genuinely praying for those TIE pilots.

[@anothisflame8266]

This sort of content is not normally I'd trust or even care for from a youtuber but you've earned my respect enough with your other content that I decided to give it a shot due to the level of respect you've shown other people's works in the past. In short I'm very happy you took the time to actually think this out and pay respect to both franchises.

[@nelshowto1715]

the weird thing is that you just described the initial contact between the Tyranids and the Imperium of Man in Warhammer 40K :) it was eerily accurate. I know a lot of people compare the zerg with the Tyranids and there are some obvious similarities, but this video really showcases the inspiration the SC2 devs got. A very well made video and I look forward to seeing more like it.

[@leererKanal]

I mean... wasn't StarCraft meant to be a Warhammer game? So ofc. there would be some similarities

[@GarmrKiDar]

@@leererKanal No, that's an urban legend. SC was of course influenced to an extent by 40k, but anything you could point out as a similarity between the two can just as easily be explained as them both drawing inspiration from the same preexisting sources (largely Starship Troopers, Dune and, for the tyranid/zerg elements, Alien)

[@mentlegens7020]

Either way now i want to hear grant to do this with sc2 and wh40k

[@xenia_mkII]

exactly! was looking for this comment :)

[@sheilaolfieway1885]

Starcraft started out as a warhammer 40k game.....so the rumor goes

[@arasgee9184]

YES! Finally, someone did a video on this. You really made my evening, Grant.

[@madness1231]

Different than your usual stuff, but really cool! I always like playing with fun ideas like this, asking these "what-if" questions and just exploring the ideas. Feels like conversations I'd have with my friends. Would absolutely love more videos like this

[@daisukeakihito9832]

Funnily enough I feel like my Stellaris prowess comes in useful here. If we assume your story ends in a stalemate like you said with the empire being pushed basically to the core worlds while leaving the midrim destroyed/a warzone and the outer rim infested. The Empire is dead, not through lack of manpower or industry but through agriculture. You see, an intergalactic level of civilization shifts individual planets to a position we have countries at right now. Import/Export problem essentially, the core worlds are going to be your ecumenopoli, massive planet-wide city/industrial zones with outputs when it comes to military that would be frankly obscene, yes. However, a world with that kind of population, even giving the greatest benefit of the doubt to the Empire, would never be able to sustain its own populace basic needs. If we assume they have perfect recovery systems, they could sustain themselves on water through filtration/asteroid ice refining. However, a planet-wide city needs a planet-wide food production and I believe a lot of these world would be located in the midrim of the galaxy. So if the Empire was in fact pushed to basically the core worlds alone, they would literally eventually collapse from the inside due to attrition, not immediately since there would probably be some reserves or stations with hydroponic systems for emergencies, but over time the Swarm would quite literally starve the Empire out.

[@jaeusa160]

The big problem these inter-franchise comparisons have is the difference in scale. StarCraft and Star Trek take place in very small pockets of space for the most part. The Koprulu Sector is basically just a handful of planets that's been kind of bulked out by SC2, but it's still the equivalent of a few nodes in Stellaris. Star Trek spreads out a bit more but ultimately still takes place in just 1 galactic quadrant (Alpha Quadrant) and even that is barely even touched in terms of exploration. Star Wars takes place across an entire full galaxy, one largely even known and explored. Logistics is massively in the favor of Star Wars tech, they cross distances in hours that Trek and Craft tech takes years or decades to cross. It's like a Snail, an ordinary real life one with no powers, trying to fight or blockade Sonic the Hedgehog. So in Stellaris terms: How hard would it be for a faction 4 nodes big to "cut off" the logistics of an Empire controlling 400 nodes and also several layers of tech more advanced? It's VERY un-fun for comparisons like this, but for context the trip from Naboo/Tattooine to Coruscant in Episode 1 is the kind of distance it would take Voyager ~70 years to cross at their max sustainable Warp speed. Who even knows how far Earth is from Koprulu but that itself is a trip that took many years, and could be fairly short in galactic terms all things considered. The Empire could bring its entire navy to every individual planet in the Koprulu Sector, orbitally bombard them into becoming Char #2 #3 #4 etc, and be home for tea by the time Kerrigan could react to any of them.

[@Kerrigan-QOB]

@@jaeusa160 But you're forgeting one crucial factor: Zerg have large tunnel networks (belly of the beast) which couldnt be orbitally bombarded to death. Given a Zerg infestor infests a lightspeed capable vessel of star wars, it can still use the lightspeed. Thus it could carry some infestors to otherp places and attempt to tear the empire down from the insiide

[@jaeusa160]

@@Kerrigan-QOB My main point here was Scale. You're talking about an Empire that holds territory literally a thousand times larger than StarCraft's. You're talking about ships and fleets that move distances in minutes that StarCraft tech takes years or decades to cross. You're basically just throwing the dream scenario of "Well they can always win because Infestation", the same argument gets thrown around with Borg from Star Trek, or Cell from DBZ, or Rogue from X-Men. It's a copout claim because if it was accurate, the Zerg already would've won all of StarCraft all the time. But they haven't. They couldn't even take the Terrans alone. They outright lost to the UED in Brood War.

[@Viper607706]

@@jaeusa160 And yet they also don't have to give a shit about hyperlanes, which means they get half the galaxy to nom on where the empire can't even go. and where hyperlanes otherwise would restrict direction of travel for empire, the zerg can just go wherever they want with impunity. The thing is though that whlie organized military responses are strong against the zerg, the zerg will happily just destroy planets that are poorly defended and consume everything in it's path. We also know that Kerrigan went from the koprulu sector to zerus in back, a distance of 40 000-50 000 light years without anything really happening in her absence. hence while hyperspace travel might be faster, it has it's lane restrictions which the zerg do not need to care about. Meaning even if you might be only a few hundred lightyears away, you might need to travel thousands of lightyears to get to the destination, whereas the swarm can simply go from A-B with no known obstacles. Another key difference is that both the protoss and terrans of the SC universe start with a decent amount of information about the zerg, at least in background, before the zerg really even start to arrive in any significant numbers, allowing them to create all kinds of methods to blunt and control them. The empire won't have that luxury this time around in this scenario, it will be the swarm that has the information advantage.

[@CartmanTuttle]

I think these types of videos are really cool, seeing how various universes would stack up, with Grant's epic voice explaining everything.

[@evilemperorzurg9615]

A couple factor I think are worth mentioning. 1. The extent of Kerrigan’s control over the swarm. The Koprulu sector is just that, a sector and even with Zerg on just a handful of planets Kerrigan has been shown to struggle to control all of them. Would she be able to control the swarm on a galactic level? 2. Psi disrupters. If the empire ever got something like that or the emperor or Vader could use a force ability that approximates its effects the empire immediately wins any engagement Kerrigan isn’t directly involved in and even if she is there she would have to put massive concentration to keep her forces in line. There is no possible scenario that the swarm can whin when it’s too busy tearing itself apart.

[@zgredczwartyniesamowity363]

I like to thing that force can disturb psionic powers

[@chengkuoklee5734]

Kerrigan knows very well that her swarm can be disrupted so she could lay a very big trap to counter. Thrawn:" Their retreat pattern is unusual. I strongly suggest we don't pursue." Tarkin:" Nonsense! Clearly the emitter is working as planned. Now full force attack and we can end this threat once and for all." Kerrigan activiates her biggest trap card- Dehaka and its Primal Zerg brood.

[@chengkuoklee5734]

​@@zgredczwartyniesamowity363 I also think so but there's a problem, Palpatine killed a lot of force users. Clearly insufficient Force resources.

[@chengkuoklee5734]

By the way, I remember there are species in Star War that are resistant/immune to Jedi mind trick. Abathur will have a field day to conduct all sort of experiments.

[@RhetoricXZ]

Love the video! Something to add. One of, if not the primary reason that the war in the Koprulu sector is a stale mate is because the protoss go around glassing planets that show even the slightest display of infection. You can see in one of the Wings of Liberty missions that Dr. Hansen's colony was only barely starting to show signs of infection before the protoss came along and started trying to burn the entire world. Given that protoss glass planets from orbit. . . and any Mothership (of which there are 9 known to canon), carrier (tens of thousands known to canon) or voidray (Very common heavy assault unit), they can Planet Crack to stop infestations at a rate that the Imperial forces just cant match. Granted, the mark one death star (the one we pretended to not blow up) was capable of firing once every 24 hours. The mark 2 could come closer, with a fire time of 3 minutes (and since it was never used like that, engineering principles would ask with what drawbacks) they could come closer in theory. I still dont see a shot every 3 minutes matching the efficiency of tens of thousands of ships. Although side note, the Death Star mark 2 was modified to also be fireable at capital ships. This puts kerrigan at a massive disadvantage if they were to ever find her flagship leviathan.

[@user-25352]

In Galactic Republic/Empire, there's a protocol called Base Delta Zero - orbital bombardment to such extent nothing survives on the planet's surface. Most of the planet is still there, of course, so you need energies far less than what Death Star possesses for that. According to Legends, as few as three Imperial-class Star Destroyers could execute such operations in a "matter of hours". I guess small fleet of Star Destroyers can glass a planet actually fast and outspeed/overpower any possible zerg regrowth.

[@dragonearth5456]

@@user-25352 Yeah blasting the surface does not do much to the Zerg. They do extensive tunneling on planets that they properly infest. Just look at Char for a idea on how hard they are to wipe from a planet even without any real leadership (early Zagara was kinda bad at her job)

[@user-25352]

@@dragonearth5456 pretty sure protocol was devised to depopulate worlds even where locals have lots of underground cities/population. "Far, far away" galaxy has lots of races, some more unique than others. and while zerg do seem to be at the top of "adaptability" and "spread really fast" leaderboard, they aren't the only ones capable of burrowing deep. The real thing that makes them hard to wipe out by terrans is lack of high-power energy weaponry, they rely more on kinetic-like guns and maybe some bombs/nukes. They just can't decisively damage planet's surface+subsurface thoroughly enough so that no zerg lifeform that can reproduce survives. SW ships can just output raw power into turning planet's surface and subsurface unsurvivable even for zerg, even if it they would have to slowly "cleance" it sector by sector.

[@dragonearth5456]

@@user-25352 Keep in mind the Protoss glassed planets and for years later the Terrans where still finding Zerg all over the planet they traditionally get progressively deeper tunnels super fast to get their nydus network up. Also if the Zerg are not attacking a fleet in orbit of a planet that means they don't even have enough Zerg there to warrant glassing yet. They will always attack ships found in orbit of their hives.

[@SaulGoodman3D2049]

It's a little inconsistent how quickly the Protoss respond to infestation, I mean in Safe Haven it seems the infestation is contained to a few colonists behind a fence while in Haven's Fall there's an actual Zerg presence and multiple villages potentially infested. In SC1, the Protoss only glass Chau Sara when it's been fully infested, months after the Zerg first showed up, although I suppose that can be chalked up to them not expecting the Zerg in Terran space and Tassadar's fleet being put together for that specific situation.

[@edge4266]

This was an awesome and super well put together and researched video! I’d love to see Zerg V Galactic Republic or Protoss V Empire/Republic!

[@aleccampbell7707]

or SC v SW Zerg Protoss Terran V Empire Republic CIS RTS

[@justing.3541]

Love that you actually put strategic objectives vs just a fight to see who wins.

[@IveBeenWithBruma]

It's all strategic until Palpatine gets miffed and starts destroying planets Kerrigan or her chain of command have been spotted on. He does have the power to do this even from the safety of his home planet.

[@firestuka8850]

This is why we love Grant. He's smart.

[@zeoncrystal]

On the topic of Star Destroyers being less effective in atmospheric combat against the Swarm. The Empire doesn't need to enter the atmosphere at all and can just lay waste to Zerg hive clusters from orbit. It's hard to compare the Gantrithor since it was fighting on Aiur, and the Protoss were extremely abhorrent to the idea of using their more powerful weapons on the surface of their beloved homeworld. I very much doubt the Empire has the same kind of sentiment.

[@dredgenauryx3382]

I mean sure but the Zerg fliers can also fly in space (See Nova Covert Ops mission 4 I believe but not sure if that is the correct mission). The so the things that would prove best support for the leviathans in space are still a factor, and if memory serves Bile Launchers can shoot into orbit so as long as the Swarm fights in the orbit of a planet they should have full access to their anti capital ship arsenal, and beyond that range Star Wars ships should start loosing enough power to not be to effective against the planet surface.

[@jaeusa160]

Yep. The Empire does not want to WASTE conquerable worlds' infrastructure and resources needlessly, but infested worlds do not fit that bill. The Empire was fine destroying Alderaan, a prosperous lush world with a long history, even just as an example to crush the spirits of the rest of the galaxy. Death Star aside, the Empire would be happy to be the Purifier Mothership from Wings of Liberty... except from much higher orbit. There's a reason single Star Destroyers were enough to oppress regions probably as large as the whole Koprulu Sector itself.

[@mihalypeti]

yeah, we saw how in SW Rebels the Empire can bombard a very small area from far in orbit. They can jump into a system, get in position in matter of quick minutes and just finish off a Hive if they know its location. once the Hive is gone, so is most of the control over the zerg forces. the swarm would need loads of Hives on the same planet in case the Empire pops by to bombard. and if the target is too hard to hit the Empire can easily turn tail and jump away

[@alfonsocyrusjoshua9551]

@@mihalypeti a planet with a minor to medium infestation would be suseptible to that, but the zerg can take over a planet very quickly, exibit A of kerrigan ordering a queen to take over a planet and said planet just got taken over in a manner of seconds, though i think thats a severe exageration but if we take that as zerg take over speed

[@too_s0ber910]

I honestly think the Zerg's prowess in space combat was understated in the video. Remember the UED fleet? Brood War's closing cinematic? DuGalle was sent home with his tail between his legs, and in said cinematic the fleet was still substantial with many dozens of ships, maybe more, but the Swarm descended upon the remnants of the fleet and utterly annihilated them. Not a single ship was spared. And as we saw in Star Wars movies, Star Destroyers are not very adept at handling squadrons of small fighters. That is why they have TIE fighters, but they'll be outnumbered dozens, maybe even hundreds, to one. And the TIE fighter isn't an X-wing, its armor is nonexistent, armament is light, not shielded. I would wager that a single glaive wurm from a mutalisk would gut a TIE fighter with one hit. And those glaive wurms would strike by the thousands. It'd be like the arrow scene from "300" but if the Spartans didn't have their shields. Then that would leave the Star Destroyers at the mercy of the literal millions of Devourers, Guardians, and Scourge, in numbers that would overwhelm any point defense system. Hell, the Leviathans wouldn't even NEED to participate in the attack.

[@VVeremoose]

"Executor has firepower the zerg can't match" Scourge: "Am I a joke to you?"

[@blightfang5148]

gotta remember the zerg at the point he was talking about don't use scourge anymore

[@firesturmgaming]

@@blightfang5148 Ah but since the Swarm "archives" useful zerg strains to use for later if needed, I'm pretty sure scourge is somewhere in there. As well as Devourers.

[@justahyundai]

@@blightfang5148 also corruptors are pretty much the most op anti capital ship AA in the game because of extra damage to massive. By that logic a 100 corruptors should one shot a death star lmao

[@feralast7027]

Scourge are honestly game logic lol, one tiny scourge cannot bring down a massive cruiser or carrier.

[@VVeremoose]

@@feralast7027 zerg "explosions" are corrosive. Star Wars shields would be useless against that type of attack. And it wouldn't be just one. Imagine hundreds of self guided bags of extremely corrosive liquid, small enough to avoid point defense, and intelligent enough to target critical systems.

[@isaacgraff8288]

It is a fun question. Biggest Issue I usually have with factions compared, is that each side plays and follows different rules. I think the Zerg's biggest advantages are competent commanders and adaptability. As for the Empire? Palpatine and Vader are incredibly powerful, they also have a handful of powerful super weapons.

[@darrellwhitney789]

So did the terrans. And protoss...

[@ztrax7133]

Vader and Palp are powerful and they could massacre a lot of Zerg, however if Kerrigan wants them dead she’ll just swarm them constantly with hundreds of Zerg at a time until the soldiers they have are wiped out and they slowly are worn down by constantly fighting different forms of zerg

[@kiloneie]

@@ztrax7133 Neither are any more powerful than a High Templar, and those died by the thousands. Star Wars cannot ever win against Starcraft. Look at Star Destroyers, they use turbolasers that cannot hit anything smaller than a corvette, rely on line of sight for everything, get taken out super easily by a hit to the bridge vs Terran BCs which have a ton of very fast fire rate auto turrets specifically designed against smaller air/space craft and Mutas and they still went down in large numbers fairly quickly by the sheer number of Mutas. Also the whole Starcraft Evolution book cannot even happen, Abathur was explained in Heart of The Storm's dialogue with Abathur to have gone wild once Overmind died, and that he cannot function without a hive connection.

[@vulpinitemplar5036]

My favourite part of this is how you establish which Zerg you'll be using because of how vastly different they behave under a variety of circumstances as opposed to the Galactic Empire which is pretty consistent across the board but the Zerg it's like if they're feral than no, if they follow Amon they might get the job done faster, hell Wings Kerrigan and Swarm/Void Kerrigan are so vastly different that even that thtows a spanner in the works and that's just touching on SC2, makes it more fun in my opinion :)

[@dogukanulker2768]

I would imagine kerrigan's zerg would be better at first contact and early years of the war but the Overmind's zerg would have a better potential for an overall galactic domination.

[@lanychabot-laroche135]

How so?

[@TheRealXartaX]

@@lanychabot-laroche135Well, for one, the Empire would have literally no way to deal with cerebrates. They're immortal and can only be killed by dark templar. It's also a far more unified entity where the entire command structure has unfaltering loyalty to the Overmind.

[@chengkuoklee5734]

I believe Overmind Zerg has harder time compared with Kerrigen's. Kerrigen's swarm is more adaptive and resourceful.

[@therandom4747]

I would probably compare dark sith powers to dt's or maybe just any force user powerful enough to disrupt and sever the link as it was killed. In this way the overminds forces would be weaker to the leadership caste getting taken out. It's shown in sc1 massive swaths of zerg going feral and them losing control over large areas when they lose one. And if they ever lose the overmind they are even worse off than Kerrigan getting sniped. On top of that the celebrates and overmind are fixed in place and not easily moved, while the cerebrates are better than the overmind at this still very fixed compared to stukov just flying away in a ship. The overmind is also more of a pure commander than Kerrigan who can single handedly wipe out armies and decimate front lines like the top level force users.

[@dogukanulker2768]

@@therandom4747 force powers and psionics have no connection so thinking that sith can sever their conncection is illogical. Besides overmind is one of the most intelligent beings in starcrafts universe and in my opinion all the cerebrates from sc1 was way smarter then any queens from kerrigans swarm. With the new races in the star wars universe I believe overmind would have better strategies and options to break the empire and would be better suited for a grand galactic campaign then a single battlefield.

[@Cubanbro22]

Love it, I think the biggest thing that was ignored is refugees. I could totally see core worlds getting infested pretty badly early on just from that. Also scourges could probably kill the death star, that things weak to small 1 man fighters and scourges only cost 25 minerals !

[@headshothunt3r414]

considering how effective scourge seemed to be alone from SC2 and all the vids ive seen from Grant id say that the scourge is the biggest problem the empire would have to face in space

[@fulguratingbean9489]

Scourges could undoubtedly wreck the death star, but this is the Swarm right before the second invasion of Korhal. They don't have scourges.

[@sethb3090]

The Rebel attack was based on inside knowledge of exactly how to hit the Death Star. After seeing the Rebellion commit their entire attack into a single target, the Empire would probably put shields on that target.

[@cheesysealAnon]

@@fulguratingbean9489 Who would win a moon sized battle station with a planet destroying laser or ONE SMALL FLYING EXPLODING BOI

[@Alwaysasherlok]

​@@cheesysealAnon and his 1.2 million brothers

[@m.b.7560]

I think you are underestimating how attrition would wreck the empire in a 'stalemate'. We know canonically that the Zerg can just turn entire worlds into 'bio mass farms' to perpetually keep the swarm fed and if not growing, maintain enough numbers to keep chipping at the empire... who would not have this tool. They'd eventually start running out of farmable land because most of those are probably not in the core worlds. Starvation would eventually win it for the swarm

[@andrewfoster8100]

Absolutely loved this video- awesome work! One X factor that (obviously) doesn’t have a canonical explanation, but would be critical to determining the outcome is how the Force interacts with Zerg psionics. If Force-sensitive beings are able to channel it to create pseudo psi emitters or psi disrupters, the Zerg could be in trouble VERY quickly

[@chengkuoklee5734]

Primal Zerg don't rely on psyonic link. Derhaka is Kerrigan's Joker card to deal with this particular problem.

[@andrewfoster8100]

@@chengkuoklee5734 you know, that’s an excellent point 😃 I hadn’t considered that at all. I think Vader and the Emperor could defeat Dehaka, but even for the two of them beating Dehaka plus Kerrigan while using the Force to disrupt Zerg psionics would be too much for them. Therefore, it would become a game of tactics; trying to isolate and kill the primal Zerg away from their allies

[@chengkuoklee5734]

@@andrewfoster8100 Thrawn:" The Swarm retreat pattern is slightly unusual, I strongly recommend we halt the advance and reaccess the situation." Tarkin:" Nonsense! The psi-emmiter is and has been working as planned. Full force attack and we end these pest once and for all!" (Kerrigan flips her biggest trap card- Dehaka & Primal Zerg brood)

[@chengkuoklee5734]

@@andrewfoster8100 Dehaka lost his arm to Zeratul, I bet he will avoid anyone with laser blade. But he and his brood will eat everyone else.

[@Helfyre1226]

Please do more videos like this! Your videos are always so great to listen to, to begin with, and hearing you discuss an interaction between two of my favorite series was Awesome!! Can’t wait to get into discussions with my friends about this very topic now, haha! Maybe the same sorta situation, but with the Dominion vs The Empire would be interesting?

[@Emmkkaaa]

Dominion is like an early version of the Empire, so its current empire vs old version of the empire.

[@calvinedgington2020]

Probably a tie they're probably Ally each other

[@d3structi]

There's always room for more What If? content on the web. An interesting match-up in my mind is Halo's Covenant empire at its height vs the Protoss alliance near the end of LotV.

[@ArvexYT]

I'm usually not a fan of faction comparison videos because they do exactly what you pointed out and typically just compare death ball to death ball without considering the scale of the battlefield, but I've watched enough of your videos to know you put way more effort than that into any video you make so I gave it a chance. This is the right way to do one of these videos and I like how you factor in different win conditions for each side beyond just "kill them to the last." I agree with your assessment on it likely ending in a stalemate and how it could be broken. If the Zerg Swarm were to manage to harness the Force through infestation (likely of an Inquisitor or Jedi survivor) and gain an understanding of it, the stalemate would be broken if Abathur could work that into new Zerg strains. That said, the Imperial economy might collapse on itself between their efforts to quarantine the Zerg and the loss of the Outer Rim's resources under a prolonged stalemate anyways.

[@Imperatoroth5th]

Just to clarify, the force is something that cannot be infested or taken over somehow. Even when you have the tech of the flood or tyranids. Also i believe he tried hard to make it look unbiased but in fairnes and i mean this in a respectfull way, the swarm is like toiletpaper for the empire and when he has done the slightest of research on this matter he would have know this, respectfully.

[@andrew_wow6892]

But does the Empire have Dowadiru? No? I see that Swarm is clearly superior

[@lrugelgumiho4751]

the best of the best

[@wrimbles]

Checkmate

[@roflthump8721]

This was an awesome idea! The points were well thought out and the editing also pulled them together well, so gj on that too. Keep it up!

[@Douglas-nt7jd]

Infesting Krate Dragons cannot be underestimated. Basically a ranged lurker ultralisk that is still beastly in melee. Also, the terrain mission in Wings Of Liberty where you assault the orbital platform to destroy the zerg air force shows leviathans are perfectly capable of defeating 12 battle cruisers at the same time. I think you undersell the combat abilities of the leviathans

[@chengkuoklee5734]

If Star War space whale crush Star Destoyers like a Labador destroying Lego set, I can't imagine how vicious Leviathans can be.

[@Draxynnic]

Battlecruisers are about a kilometer long, and have similar functions and weapons to Star Destroyers apart from the lack of shields. Canonically, they can also carry fighters, although this doesn't happen in-game (the fighters are independent craft, unlike Protoss interceptors, they're just capable of landing on battlecruisers for interstellar transport). So an Imperial Star Destroyer would probably be roughly equivalent to one of the bigger battlecruisers like the Hyperion. The bigger issue is the Death Star, but I suspect the Death Star would be susceptible to being bombarded with drop pods and eventually infested. The canonical Empire didn't need to worry about their opposition attempting that tactic, but it would be entirely practical for the Zerg.

[@Douglas-nt7jd]

@@Draxynnic yeah. Once a couple infestors land and splooge on the storm troopers it would likely be over pretty quickly

[@Douglas-nt7jd]

@@Draxynnic especially since starwars isn't know for it's great medical tech. Sure they have bacta tanks but that regenerates tissue. Since the zerg virus writes itself into your DNA the bacta might actually be detrimental to infected hosts

[@normal_handle47]

yes and 2 battle cruisers can esaliy defeat a star destroyer with their tacs and yamato cannons

[@nyxxx7376]

To note. There are many creatures and materials in star wars that are resistant to blasters and even lightsabers and the force. So the zerg could as an army adept the essence of these creatures and become unstoppable since nothing could kill them. Kerrigan would if we look at it be unkillable to anyone in the star wars universe regardless. Spy blades the only weapons ever shown to damage her seem to look like lightsabers. But thats where your wrong. Psy blades are extensions of psionic energies of the wearer. Moreover the two times shes been cut has been by zeratul and narud. Zeratul, narud both used specifically warp blades infused with void energy. Which can cut through literally anything in the Starcraft universe. Knowing this it makes sense. Kerrigan has been shown to tank missles, fire ,machine gun bullets and psionic energy. Fought mountain sized monsters . Nuclear weaponry. Hel the women turned mengsk into a bomb that destroyed a giant portion of the emporers castle which is a gigantic structure. And didnt even leave a scratch. This doesnt even take into account her regeneration or ability to burrow. Her abilities like lightning explosions implosions mind control sensing abilities and much much more

[@Kiwi9552]

Great video. One thing I think might tip the scales in space combat a little is that the leviathan are not really the zergs combat force to my knowledge. The two things that would mainly threaten star destroyers would be the curroptor on the one hand, which I think they actually could deal with, as it's on the slower more armored side, which the empire is good at dealing with. The thing that would be far scarier I think would be scourges. They are fast and can deal a ton of damage, but are farely squishy. However star wars always had the problem of having rather inaccurate weapons, so the empire might struggle to defend their star destroyers against them.

[@therandom4747]

Previously mutaliaks have been shown to be the real threat in air to air fights, just massive clouds of mutas chipping away at the armor and causing 1000 small breaches. Mutas have even been shown in short stories to start bringing down carriers that are capable of wiping fleets of battlecruisers out as they learn the specific traits and weaknesses of each ship through many battles eventually bringing it down.

[@Jocsot101]

leviathans have hollow tentacles through which zerg forces can be deployed. sure, the leviathan itself isnt as combat capable as one would assume from a 11km creature, however, its still massive, strong, and has highway thick tentacles that can break through terran armor and spunk hundreds of zerg inside whatever ship they attacked. mate, they are a force to be reconed with

[@colineyre8061]

An interesting thought experiment to be sure, I liked it. Another battle scenario that I've always thought would be interesting is Zerg (StarCraft) vs. the Scourge (Warcraft) and the Lich King. When you think about it the two have a lot of similarities (being able to produce masses of effective soldiers, the army being controlled by a central person, etc.). I guess the similarities make sense seeing how both games are from the same company.

[@woodsytheowlscharedcorpse4761]

Another one that feels weirdly obvious is What Happens if you swap The Zerg in for The Tyranids in WH40k

[@lvo9197]

@@woodsytheowlscharedcorpse4761 I d say Nids win out of sheer number and being able to project tha shadow in the warp, which would probably disrupt zerg psychic connections. Scourge vs Zerg is interesting, it would depends on the rules upon which magic interacts with zerg abilities.

[@LeDominantDeSC2]

@@woodsytheowlscharedcorpse4761 Well tyranids have the issue of not being humans. They have no real idea of how humans works, and they'll just fight what gets between their food and themselves. Zergs have human leaders, who would be much more efficient in using human weaknesses

[@IsmaelSantos-xv9qf]

@@lvo9197 Well, that depends on how similar the Synapse link of Tyranids and Zerg are. If they are too similar, then Kerrigan, Broodmothers and Overlords could very well engage in synaptic tug-o-war with the Tyranid Hivemind for control of the swarms while being highly resistant, if not outright inmune, to the Shadow in the Warp. And that's assuming the SitW even works on SC psychics, as there is no Warp in SC. Think of it how in the Warcraft novels from the War of the Ancients, when Queen Aszhara redirects the magic of the Well of Eternity to the portal, all Night Elf sorcerers lose their ability to wield magic, as they channeled arcane magic by tapping into the WoE, while Ronin retained his ability to wield magic because he didn't need to tap into the Well of Eternity, instead having learned to draw arcane power from the world itself. If your psychics do not tap into the warp for their powers, then the shadow in the warp is worth jacksquat.

[@lvo9197]

@@IsmaelSantos-xv9qf it depends indeed, but because of the sheer size of the tyranids (they are visible in open space, most cosmic bodies that aren t stars are very hard to spot unless they are MASSIVE), if zerg are affected, they would be devastated. The problem with the shadow working only for warp boudn beings, is that the tyranids come from outside the galaxy, and if this aura worked there too, it implies that is not limited to warp bound beings, but any form of sentience. Also, zerg psychic powers have been stoped before by terran made devices, so it is quite possible they wouldn t be able to match the nids on that front. Again, I think zerg could win if they evolved some kind of specialized resistance, maybe consuming some orks to enhance their psychic powers.

[@crushcommando8637]

Loved the video! Only a couple things i personally found iffy, one of which being the "stability" of the Empire's leadership; even in movie canon after the loss of the Emperor/Vader (to an extent Tarkin) the Empire immediately fractured into multiple warlord states vying for power to be the successor. On the flip side, wouldn't the Empire just tactically deploy the death star vs fleets sniping leviathans at will? (the Escort fleet for the DS1 and 2 were always massive making it hard for the swarm to close the gap). The key for space for the swarm (to me) would be the ability to perhaps do some sort of ambushes or short range jumps to close the gap and force boarding actions to overwhelm the crew/disable the big ships. Also side note, while the rebellion was crushed as a unified overall force, the Empire being forced to constrain and tighten its grip on its people even further would not be a viable long term strategy; the Zerg don't need to deal with insurrections, riots, or internal power struggles (as long as Kerrigan is around). Not to mention the key to every war: Logistics, the Imperial Navy was a *massive* Resource burden on the Imperial budget, and that's with their extortion of groups like the hutts/Corsec/etc; maintaining their immense military while more or less holding ground indefinitely would lead to economic collapse while also making it difficult to keep its frontline maintained with proper equipment and supplies; The Zerg can basically "Home Grow" whatever they need. Overall I can't say for sure who would win as there's so many little factors, but I love the video!

[@АртемийГалков-ш7п]

Well, how do you think they are going to "Home Grow" while the Death Star is around?) Actually, i think logistic would be a zergы problem in this scenario, since it is them who would need to build up new production and besiege new planets (they have no capabilities to bypass them by simply destroying). Also Empire has space combat superiority, giving them an advantage in transportation, raiding and blockading capabilities, that are crucial for the war of attrition. Zergs would have to be extremely careful and efficient with their resource usage but Kerrigan isn't knows for her caution or thrift (at least in my understanding).

[@Windw00d]

I'd agree with you that the Zerg don't have to deal with internal power struggles, but when facing an extragalactic threat like the Zerg, the Empire is more likely, IMO, to stick together and just have the next man up mentality. If they start attacking one another they will definitely all die. I do think this favors the Zerg by a lot though.

[@Photoloss]

The Empire can only field 1 or _maybe_ 2 Death Stars and they don't travel instantly. The zerg would simply flee the thing on sight if they don't have enough scourge to disable it while hitting a dozen other planets at the same time. Careful use of Interdictors _could_ work but IIRC those have major shortcomings in terms of shielding, close quarters escorts and possibly even wind-up time meaning they would likely get wrecked almost immediately by suicide dives and _maybe_ enable a single leviathan kill in return. And we know how laughably ineffective turrets/point defence tend to be in Star Wars so the zerg would quickly devise a plan involving a lot of scourge, baneling-filled drop pods or close quarters combatants who can tunnel through metal to neutralise the Death Star in one big suicide attack against the station itself thus once again giving them free reign. The only real way I see the Empire win without people acting out of character is if the first contact involves the attention of some of the other higher ups who would realise the true nature of the threat sooner. For example if the Swarm dropped out over Kuat they would probably still obliterate it but sustain heavy losses, and the advanced tactics required to overcome a massive orbital shipyard complex with substantial planetary support would very quickly alert the Emperor himself that these are not just dumb hungry bugs. At that point his scheming and Force powers should allow him to mount an effective counterattack fairly quickly and crush anything short of a Galaxy-wide anti-mask rebellion despite literal face-eating monsters roaming the quarantined streets.

[@АртемийГалков-ш7п]

​@@Photoloss Agree, but after these attacks of "dozen other planets" the swarm would anyway have to regroup and replace losses, thereby opening for the Emperial attack. Without safe rear that would do all the production it is impossible to win this giant war, and i don't see how they are going to get this rear with Death Star flying around. On the massive suicide attack on the Death Star by scourge, baneling e.t.c. Even if all these staff manages to reach the surface of the station i think there is no way it can deal any significant damage to it. In Episode 4 it was clearly stated that it is impossible to destroy Death Star using conventional weapons. In Episode 6 a giant Executioner star destroyer crashed straight into DS2 surface dealing no significant damage to the station (at least it looked this way). So why would even a giant swarm of scourge, provided that they managed to pass through the DS escort, fighters (i guess scourge or baneling-filled pods are much less maneuverable than X-Wings), and, albeit inefficient, point defence systems, do any better?

[@Photoloss]

@@АртемийГалков-ш7п The zerg don't really have an "industrial rear". They are decentralised and adapt very quickly, effectively the only defining characteristic is the local concentration of zerg biomass, most of which can relocate across interstellar distances fairly quickly. Once the threat of the Death Star becomes known they would not keep large garrisons in "local reserve" like WoL Char, they would simply abandon that planet and move on to the next. As for taking down the Death Star, I see two main avenues: 1) physical damage to the main gun. The station itself is strategically insignificant, much of the weapon's mechanisms are exposed or close to the surface making them much easier targets for both explosives and metal-tearing boarding parties. Most of the crew can't fight effectively in the vacuum of space or in cramped maintenance tunnels around the gun either while the zerg suffer no such restrictions. And then the more pressing issue 2) death or infestation of the crew. We know the station has significant internal blind spots, its compartmentalisation will be designed around external hull breaches, sabotage and reactor issues rather than coordinated hyperadaptive bioweapons, and the Empire's own biotech is so cripplingly inferior I even doubt their ability to deploy an effective security check scanner against implanted parasites. Even if they somehow go in lockdown quickly enough that will take the station out of the ongoing battle for some time, and an infestation of the on-board supplies will force it off the front lines entirely for a deep clean because none of the crew can survive without food or clean water. Basically as soon as any reasonable number of zerg make direct contact the Death Star is dead in the water, meaning it is the ultimate harass/cleanup tool against minor opposition and a near insurmountable static defence installation until the zerg can amass the raw numbers to just push past it. Which won't take all that long when they have most of the Galaxy available while the Death Star only guards a single planet. If the starting conditions do not allow for a widespread infestation of the Outer Rim then the Death Star will secure the Empire's ultimate victory, but if the zerg can nab more than a handful of planets before someone goes on a Stellaris speedrun it will not operate quickly enough to matter all that much.

[@RogueMastermind]

Love the video! But IMO, this is completely lopsided in the Zerg Swarm's favor. -Zerg are actually good at space combat. Zerg carpaces are bioengineered for extreme durability and hold up to both Terran weaponry (missiles & bullets) and Protoss weaponry (phasers, lasers, photons, etc.). Imperial turbolasers and other projectiles are relatively similar to these and likely aren't going to deal much more or less damage to Leviathans - and if these Leviathans are like Abathur's Ultimate Evolutions with Impaler tentacles, they're going to prove very difficult for the Empire to combat. And that's before we unpack the Leviathan carrying a ton of other Zerg species. -Leviathans are only a small number of space-worthy Zerg species capable of wrecking havoc and Imperial Ships. Zerg Mutalisks, Devourers, Vipers, Corruptors, and especially Scourge are evolved for both space flight and combat. Scourge and Corruptors in particular are devasting to the Imperial reliance on capital ships whether they're shielded or not, and the lack of shields on most Imperial starfighters actually makes them far less durable and more vulnerable than Zerg fliers. Zerg also aren't just claws and teeth; acid and projectile spines are a key part of the Zerg arsenal against their more technologically advanced opponents - damaging shields and eating through metal and ship hulls all the same. Also, a lot of space-worthy Zerg species are quite fast, easily able to match the flight speeds of Imperial starfighters. -Agreed that in terms of ground combat, the Empire stands no chance at all. Imperial walkers, tanks, and vehicles are a poor match for Zerg in basically any capacity and the poor Stormtroopers and all the varieties they come in are little more than fodder. Again, acid is particularly dangerous, but those claws, spines, and teeth have been shown to pierce and tear right through vehicles and armor alike. -Midi-chlorians and Force powers also slant heavily in favor of the Zerg. The whole reason Kerrigan was so important to the Zerg in the first place is her psionic powers and a significant effort was made to capture and infest her into the Swarm because of it. This makes it even worse for the Empire because midi-chlorians are present in literally all life forms - assimilation of even one Star Wars species or even just a random organism into the Zerg Swarm has the potential for all of the Swarm to evolve Force Powers. Forget the Rancors; Star Wars harbors way more dangerous life forms, to say nothing of how dangerous the various Zerg species already are. -Due to the biological nature of the Zerg, capturing and infesting even one planet provides way more resources than the Empire could hope to tap into on that planet in a millenium. Minerals and Vespene gas jokes aside, the Empire only recruits and uses maybe a small amount of the available natural resources and lifeforms on any given world. The Zerg use ALL of it. -The key factor of the Zerg (and what makes them so dangerous) is that the Zerg are an embodiment of nature; ruthless, highly adaptable, and near impossible to wipe out. The entire race started as a handful of those larvae that rapidly assimilated species on their homeplanet of Zerus and hyper-evolved them into the pinnacle of their genetic potential so that they could become space-faring. When they did become space-faring, they wiped out the race that created them (the Xel'Naga) who were orbiting the planet monitoring their creation and could not escape their own creation.

[@Viper607706]

.... I honestly think we'd see a return of the scourge and... they're very effective against battle cruisers...

[@aleccampbell7707]

Infested Stormtroopers would have better aim not to mention their armor would look cool with spikes all over

[@MagicalMaster]

If mediclorians are something that can be assimilated I'd see the swarm pump out things like Zooanthropes from the Tyrannids, flying artillery. Also, remember that Stukov knows how to marry technology with Zerg flesh. Meaning that destroyed Star Destroyers could get added to the swarm. It could very much be a game of the Swarm slowly trying to press on the Empire more and more until it just runs out of resources.

[@Photoloss]

Stukov infested _technically_ aren't A canon, but unless the Death Star and its supporting fleet can operate at full capacity 24/7 the zerg would not run out of viable habitats any time soon and don't need infested mech, a Star Destroyer _will_ go down to thousands of drop pods filled with roach/hydra. The Empire cannot rebuild its fleet fast enough, and it _definitely_ cannot replace the civilians working in production and logistics if drops or infestation ever get to them.

[@epistemo3442]

Midichlorians aren't generating the Force at all. That's a misconception. In fact, any attempt messing with the Midichlorians would have the Force beat you up. So no, The Zerg aren't going to have any Force users.

[@MagicalMaster]

@@epistemo3442 Oh, okay.

[@SenyiKimmo]

@@epistemo3442 so basically midochlorians are in a similar boat as the protoss. they're a signifier of "purity of form" as it were, but they're also so resistant to assimilation that it's not worth trying. and the midichlorians don't even have the advantage of the zerg's psychological compulsion to _try_ to assimilate the protoss, so abathur would only keep hold of force-sensitives just to understand the force

[@celica9288]

no offense, but Midichlorians are explained so fucking poorly that that's what about 99% of people think, so that's what grant used, and its what I shall run with

[@dyjost]

from the start, I was thinking. if abathur gets ahold of enough force sensitive/potential jedi.... we could end up with either a very psionically boosted kerrigan, or some interesting almost 'Tosslike Zerg being made. also, I think after the first hiveworld gets deathstar'd. there would be a concerted effort to infest and destroy the floating planetkiller. it would just be too destructive to leave alone.

[@Jet-ij9zc]

All living things have mediclorians no? Pretty sure that was directly stated by qui gon in the prequels. So if abathur can figure out how they work, they would use very little biomass (since they're not part of an extra organ or something) and every single zerg would have a miclorian count rivaling anakin. But that assuming they can figure it out. Which they likely would if given enough time.

[@SeviathTheHumanDrago]

Problem: In star wars Legends transferring the force via blood transfusion or even cloning has been shown to be either completely inviable or when successful like with Snoke clones they VERY rapidly deteriorate. If it's not the forces will, it won't be done.

[@kiennguyentrung7331]

@@SeviathTheHumanDrago "very rapidly deteriorate" is actually just long enough for augmented zerg creatures to do their stuff actually

[@SeviathTheHumanDrago]

@@kiennguyentrung7331 Even still, the force being alive is its own x factor that comes into play, if the force doesn't want the Swarm to use it it won't be able to end of story. Also whenever Plagieus and Sidious were trying to create life themselves the force itself took offense and created Anakin, so the force itself could literally just end up being their downfall since as soon as they try genetically altering zurg to try to have the force it will take offense and strike back on it's own.

[@umbraviventem]

@@SeviathTheHumanDrago except in the star wars movies we literally see Sidious was transferred between bodies. I am sure Abathur would figure out how to make it stable quickly enough.

[@Madman13K]

By coming up with an explicit clear scenario, factoring in the most likely decisions made, and going over the strategies and logistics as much as the actual comparison of firepower you have managed to make this far more interesting than other videos of this type. And above all else, it's a good story, albeit one told at an abstract rather than a personal level.

[@Casual_Gamer_776]

I was half interested clicking on this, thinking it was just gonna be another long hand-wavey video explanation between the two factions by a channel I'm not familiar with. But DAMN this was really well researched and thought out. And now I'm sitting here going down the rabbit hole on how this war would look and I NEED this to be made into a series now.

[@DragonsoftheDeep]

This was a Surprise to be sure, but a welcome one

[@riolufistofmight]

I think it's true that there's going to be a long stalemate in the middle as the empire's space superiority prevents the swarm from penetrating the core while the swarm's breadth prevents the empire from shutting them down without massive losses. BUT. As time goes on and the two skirmish, the Swarm's ability to acquire new resources, replenish its forces and launch new attacks would start to massively overwhelm the empire's ability to do so. Even if a Star Destroyer can beat a leviathan 1 on 1, or even 1 on 3, that won't matter if the swarm can start pulling from the resources of half the galaxy (even planets the empire couldn't have used) to produce new ships, units and attacks. They can send 10 leviathans for each star destroyer, or 20. And the empire's ability to replace it's own losses will also be crippled as the war goes on, building a star destroyer requires technical knowledge, advanced shipbuilding tools and immense resources. I think in the case of a true stalemate, the empire has maybe a full generation's time before attrition drives it's defenses down to the point where the swarm can siege coruscant.

[@TheFalconerNZ]

Fully agree that it would come to a war of attrition in the Zerg's favour but I also believe the Swarms ability to adapt quickly, both in tactics & units would also doom the Empire as well.

[@rayzerot]

​@@TheFalconerNZYup. The Empire is a bunch of humans with high tech weaponry.... just like the humans in StarCraft lol

[@Furydragonstormer]

Yeah, The Swarm can replace billions in mere days, the Empire? Well, humans need eighteen years to fully mature for military service even if trained from a young age. Simply put, the Zerg beats them by sheer attrition in the long game

[@nadarith1044]

Do remember however that the empire holds the potential to leverage it's tech base and industrial capability to create unending legions of clones and droids, including creating things similar to the original katana fleet but they won't really resemble the original empire at the end of it if they go down that road

[@myduckisonqauck7227]

​@@FurydragonstormerImperial navy: 25,000 imperial 1 star destroyers, 4.8-36 million smaller warships(2,400-4,000 combat ships per sector(imperial sourcebook), 50+dreadnoughts(around 26 of which are executer classes), a sovereign class(continent/small moon busting laser), two eclipses(continent/small moon), over 263,000(Specter of the past) other star destroyers/similar sized ships, sun crusher(star buster, that tanked a death stat laser), 2 death stars, an extra death star prototype with a functional laser, 2 death star sized habitation spheres, a galaxy gun(snipe planets and ships from across the galaxy), metal crystal phase shifters(bypass shields to weaken hull integrity), the tarken,(planet buster), the conqueror(continent/small moon cracking super laser) and dozens of world devastators(can rip apart planets with tractor beam projectors, while tanking shots from capital ships. Can collect materials to upgrade/grow, and even create new world devastators). There was a plan to include super class star destroyers(8km) in many of the empires sectors. That is potentially 100s. There was also the assertor class(15km), bellator(7km), vengeance class(19km), and mandator III(12km). Imperial army: 10s of trillions(Rebellion era campaign guide, and Imperial sourcebook) Stormtrooper corps: 100s of millions-billions CompForce: 100s of billions(2nd edition sourcebook) Tanks/repulsorcraft: 2-9 Trillion Walkers: 10s of millions Fighters: 62 million- a few hundred million Territory: over a million, and a half full member worlds(rebellion era campaign guide,and 2nd edition source book) , and 5-70+ million colonies(Essential atlas), vessels, and protectorates. Han solo stated to Luke they would have to search six million inhabited systems, and an old republic comic stated the holonet connected six million worlds. 1,000s of sectors(imperial source book). Weapon damage: Turbolasers dish out megatons of superheated plasma, while laser cannons in the kilotons. The attack of the clones cross section states 200 gigatons a shot, and 6 megatons a shot but we treat it as an outlier(It also states turbolaser shots travel at light speed). Contrary to popular belief star wars shields do protect against projectiles/high velocity attacks. A super star destroyer's shields have tanked rebel cruisers jumping out of hyperspeed, and multi megaton hits from asteroids in an asteroid field. Deflector shields can produce ray shields(Physical/High velocity projectile weapons), and particle shields(energy based weapons). Both the 2nd edition sourcebook, and cross section tell us star destroyers are capable of turning the upper crust of planets into slag which we can believe. Carnor jax states an imperial star destroyer can make stone run like water, and turn sand into glass. Going by the bombardment of caamas, it takes several star destroyers to reduce a planet's surface twice the size of earth to molten slag in under twenty four hours. The E-11 is the equivalent of a 14.5mm round with enough heat to punch through a lightly armored or unarmored opponent, and in a new hope it vaporizes steel bars. The DLT-19 was capable of taking down lightly armored vehicles. The T-21 light repeating blaster fires the plasma bolt equivalent of a 22.5-30mm bullet from a guass rifle. Mercenaries using light blaster cannons shot through 4 inches of plasteel. T-21

[@linnoff]

I feel like a Swarm attack on the death star would be similar to the infestation of Cybros, except they'd have the leadership and strategy of Kerrigan. They'd be able to infest the surface and eventually make their way inside.

[@Aromatic-ring]

The Zerg wouldn’t be able to take out the Death Star. The Death Star can travel at light speed, meaning it can easily kill any Zerg planet, leviathan, and if it starts getting overwhelmed can jump to light speed and escape.

[@hylarson]

​@brycejensen3040 even so it's very slow and the calculations would take long enough that some zerg would make it into say... a small 2 metter gap into the center of the station before a light speed jump. Then the deathstar is fuuuuuucked.

[@Aromatic-ring]

@@hylarson Nah. The calculations are quick, Zerg stands no chance at getting in. Cope

[@Jet-ij9zc]

​@@Aromatic-ringthe leviathans can also travel at ftl mate.

[@Aromatic-ring]

@@Jet-ij9zc leviathans get one shot, and the Death Star fires fast enough to make quick work of them

[@matthewtucker2103]

The zero land at Tatoonie, because everything starts here. Out of the gate, the Zerg get access to many of the races of Star Wars, but also the Krayt Drsgon, the Rancor, and the Sarlacc. That's a hell of a snowball in the first few hours of the Zerg invasion.

[@dragonearth5456]

The biggest challenge facing the Zerg in orbit or around something like the Death Star is the massive numbers of Zerg flyers that would be deployed sure leviathans are not meant for capital ship fighting but they are super carriers and we have already seen what small amounts of fighters do to ISDs during the rebellion. They would always have to have multiple together because they can quickly be overwhelmed by the Zerg flyers. I feel like the Death Star is a non issue after it becomes a nuisance because of this after a few worlds get blown up the Zerg would deploy huge numbers of flyers to worlds it can safely target either heavily damaging it in acts of massive suicidal waves or making enough of a opening to deploy boarding forces which without the massive support of Imperial mechanized would quickly overwhelm the near by troopers in the area. One attack might not do enough damage but after every single planet they show up to destroy at least tries this the Death Star would be forced to retreat or be destroyed before it could.

[@some_shitposting_idiot3023]

people always forget that capital ships in star wars are actually insanely fragile, countless time just small explosions can pierce right through the hull of a star wars ship, tiny fighters hitting the command decks completely destroying the ships, and the fact that star fighters even have enough fire power to deal with capital ships in the first place, itd be a completely different story if capital ships werent made out to be a joke 99% of the time

[@N0d4chi]

@@some_shitposting_idiot3023 And capital ships like Carriers and Battlecruisers are no joke and still lose to masses of zerg

[@jaeusa160]

@@some_shitposting_idiot3023 They're really not that fragile. Aside from sheer dumb luck scenarios, a small detachment of the Imperial Navy was considered an overwhelming and unbeatable contest for the entire Rebel Fleet. Star Destroyers are simply jobbers though because they're iconic and the easy punching bag for game missions. Much like Stormtroopers being incompetent. You can't really take protagonist plot armor and video game dopamine injections as the canon for these contests. Or else you could do things like defeat Kerrigan and all of her defenders on Char without losing a single unit. You ARE posting this on the channel where that is a thing after all. ;p Like if this was an actual game, then a video would exist here of defeating Kerrigan without losing 1 Stormtrooper, yet alone losing something as big as a Star Destroyer.

[@nonya1366]

That's assuming the death star is A: Alone. B: Doesn't have hangers C: Doesn't fire up it's many, many, many rows of guns into an oncoming swarm, and D: That the swarm that went to korhal reproduces scourges in enough numbers [But the swarm! But then why bother with any other flyer ever if everything in the universe explodes? In fact, why not simply have scourges slam into the ground? The gas requirement is still there.] And D: That the leviathan transported that many scourges at a time.

[@rayzerot]

​@@nonya1366The thing with the death star though.... it just doesn't... matter. We're talking about a galaxy spanning war with millions and millions of planets. Travel time still exists so even if you had 100 death stars working non-stop, they still wouldn't even eradicate a percentage point of the planets the Zerg could live on (in lore they live off of the minerals on lava planets so the world doesn't have to be inhabitable for it to be suitable for the Zerg) Death Stars are amazingly powerful. There's just too few of them to be meaningful when the contested area includes millions of planets in a galaxy far far away

[@praetorkhas1644]

Fantastic video as always! Couldn't help but geek out, imagining two factions from my favorite Sci-Fi universes colliding. I would love to see more hypotheticals explored like this. Keep up the great work, Grant!

[@allyourbase2010]

I really hope we get more videos like this one, I ADORE this type of content, and the delivery here was fantastic!

[@eillee8394]

I hope you make another like this. I haven't even seen Star Wars, but it's a cool and fun video to watch and you explain the assets and tactics well enough that I'm up to speed.

[@purpleepicicon]

I see the Zerg eventually taking this. Kerrigan and her advisors are always planning. Plus, it is apparent that the Zerg can always capture and interrogate, even if it means infesting said prisoner. That way they can learn all they need to know about the Empire in order to overwhelm it. Also, they could easily infest stormtroopers in ways that don't appear outside the armor, making them 'sleepers' in a sense that could infiltrate and activate when an attack begins or as needed.

[@napoleonfeanor]

Infestation always also showed on armor and ships

[@robgilmour3147]

@@napoleonfeanor no it doesn't, there are multiple cases of zerg agents leading both human and protoss factions astray in both sc1 and sc2 campaigns, heck the dark Templars matriarch was infested by karrigan when she allied with them for a bit.

[@purpleepicicon]

@@napoleonfeanor I think that was more for our benefit than for how it could potentially be.

[@CommissarChaotic]

Are changelings like canon and stuff, i saw those on SC2 games, its been too long for me...

[@Bob-nk6ts]

​@robgilmour3147 you have Lt. Duran, he was infested. It didn't show. Or he was Narud all along. I'm still a little lost on his lore.

[@chichirocket]

My biggest complaint about this video is that I reaaaally hoped there'd be a bit about the Zerg infesting the Death Star.

[@iamblight707]

The star destroyers are more than enough to destroy the planet surfaces. They do it regularly, they call it delta base zero.

[@aj2228]

if zerg infest even one jedi, it's over. But I don't think any jedi would be infested.

[@GuardianOwl]

@@iamblight707wouldn’t star destroyers be just as vulnerable to infestation given how large the complement of crew that serves on one? If an attacking group makes a beachhead anywhere in the ship it can spread through it.

[@iamblight707]

Star destroyers aren't civilian population centers, they're fortresses designed with rapid planetary invasion in mind. Just sending in one shuttle wouldn't work, they'd need to board in massive numbers. They could take one over, but it would be a fight. Then there's the problem of actually boarding. The Star Destroyers have powerful shields that need to be brought down. Boarding action in star wars requires this, which means there needs to be overwhelming firepower, or deception for a boarding op to work. Since the Zerg largely lack weapons in space, they'll rely on ramming the star destroyer en mass. problem is, on top of powerful shields that can tank turbolaser bombardment (turbolasers output 2gw of energy per second) star destroyers can travel 600 mph in atmosphere. Considering a weightless environment, in space their sublight speed can be up to 50,000 mph or more, considering that their speed in atmosphere is limited by their shields and artificial gravity. There's no evidence any zerg units can move this fast. As most people say, directly or indirectly, the zerg's only hope is the Empire's incompetence. The Empire would have to ignore the zerg until they get out of hand, then underestimate them which I don't think is likely considering players like Sidious who can see into the future, Tarkin, the ruthless tactician, and Thrawn, the analytical genius.

[@GuardianOwl]

@@iamblight707 So if they have such powerful defenses, how is it a small fleet of Rebel fighters and a few cruisers is seen taking down multiple Star Destroyers in Return of the Jedi? It would seem all the Zerg would have to do is bum rush the 2 shield domes above the bridge (fighters had no problems reaching them in RoTJ) and that would leave them open to attacks and Zerg boarding parties at other points on the ship. The bridge isn't in a protected place, like the middle of the ship, but instead on the hexagonal "head" with just a window between it and the vacuum of space. So the Zerg could board there once the shields are down and cripple their ability to control access throughout the ship.

[@Brian0033]

I think it more likely the Zerg has a -massive- presence in the Force then none at all, but rather then try to wipe the Zerg out at once I imagine the Empire trying to turn them to their advantage and this going the way it always does

[@hansmatos2504]

I guess the jedis would get completely caught off guard when they discover that the terrans' 'force users' can cast mushroom clouds whenever they want. Unlimited power

[@ezraclark7904]

Very cool, but I think it would be neat if the Zerg Psionics had a presence in the force

[@durgun8247]

If that were the case then the empire could potentially have force users interact with parts of the zerg command structure, direct control would probably only be possible on a small scale, but it may be possible to figure out the locations of leviathans and allow the empire to snipe them.

[@epistemo3442]

Can't wait to see how Zerg psionics would deal with the corrupting effect of the dark side of the Force.

[@Leonhardt04]

@@epistemo3442 Dark side corruption: "Consume. Become powerful." Random Defiler: "Sheeit don't mind if I do." *nearby ling explodes*

[@jaeusa160]

If one extrapolated this to the Protoss, one might make the case that like the Protoss, Midichlorian-based life (which is all life in the SW universe, and even including the Yuuzhan Vong) would be incompatible with Zerg Assimilation. Which is quite a sad instant loss for the Zerg. If we just had Zerg existing in the Force, that's also a catastrophic disaster for Kerrigan since her control and the entire chain of control for the Zerg become disruptible and even capable of being usurped by potent Force wielders. This slightly boils over into the crazy ramblings GGG had at the ending... and it's like "No, I don't think Abathur would approve at all of trying to make so many complex organisms". The Zerg are kept simple and specialized because complexity is very bad for reproduction. Like you might find an Infested Rancor, but you're not going to find it imbued with Force powers. You might find a Force-wielding Zerg, but it is itself certain to be relatively frail in all other traits. Even the largest of eldest Zerg, while mighty, were not highly complex creatures. Kerrigan was unique amongst the Swarm, and took significant resources and time and effort to transform. You ain't spawning Kerrigans from Larvae anytime soon.

[@epistemo3442]

@@jaeusa160 Yeah, I do remember in the HOTS campaign that complexity is bad according to Abathur and it is an incredibly complex process to make a Force Sensitive. Only the Force has authority to designate who's Force Sensitive or not.

[@resembz]

Personally I feel the setup you had wouldn't end in a stalemate, since the zerg would have time on their side. If it were to grind into galactic trench warfare, it would be only be a matter of time before the zero had assimilated something big and spooky from the void of space that could take on the capital ships, like you said.

[@Darksage5555]

But time could also be on the empires side, heqr me out, after the stalemate situation is set up, the empire starts blowing up planets, I know it's extreme and crude, but if they just slowly and methodically erase the outerrim the zero losses billions per day and its unsustainable for them, they would run out of biomass. I personally don't know which would win, but it would be interesting. I lean toward the zero winning just because they only need to get 1 larva on a planet to start a war on that planet.

[@jwmmitch]

I agree, I think the possibility of a temporary stalemate would be highly likely, but I think as soon as the Empire let up on the battle pressure in favor of defense would be the beginning of the end. Letting the Zerg decide how aggressive the war is would be the same as surrendering. Given enough time the zerg would regrow to new strengths MUCH faster than the Empire could respond

[@Jirodyne]

@@jwmmitch I Disagree, there would never be a Stalemate, cause there is nothing the Empire has, no tech, that can stop the Zerg. They might be able to protect ONE Planet, if they literally put ALL of their Ships, Tech, and Soldiers on Fortifying that 1 planet. But there are MILLIONS of planets in the SW Universe, and the Zerg would wipe them all out, then come for the 1 planet, with infinite resources, biomass, and horrific assimilated Force creatures so powerful that Empire wouldn't last. I think that's the BIGGEST Flaw in this video... They assume it's only going to be 'Zerglings', 'Hydralisks', and nothing else... Like no, a Krayt Dragon? That will be Assimilated and suddenly there's an entire army of thousands of Dark Corrupt Force using Elder Krayt Dragons marching against the Empire. And Empire who can't even kill ONE Elder Krayt Dragon as they are seen as the most powerful and strongest creatures to exist in all of SW Lore. The Empire literally stands no chance at all.

[@croatoan-t-g]

they wouldn't have time on their site if the nempire keeps doing focused assaults top ended by the death star blasting the planet. sooner or later the outer galaxy empty

[@Jirodyne]

@@croatoan-t-g It takes time to move the death star, charge it, and then fire it. What's more, we've seen in the early Star Craft games that Zergs CAN breath and fire in space, fighting with the humans on a station in space and wiping them out. So the Zerg can make a direct attack on the Death Star itself and wipe it out. Or worse, since once assimulated, they would know how to opporate it they can take it over and use it against the Empire. As I said, there is NO SITUATION where the Zerg loses. Ever. They ONLY Reason they don't win in Star Craft, is LITERALLY Cause of Deus Ex Machinas. EACH and EVERY time it's a Deus Ex Machina that they are STOP not even defeated, they are only Temparaliarly STOPPED at most..

[@GoranXII]

The Zerg would know nothing about the galaxy _initially_ , but once they pick up a few people, they're going to learn very quickly. Also, the Zerg don't care whether a planet is conventionally considered habitable or not, so they can hide out on worlds the Empire wouldn't suspect. Also, Kerrigan may or may not have the force itself, but she can cloak herself, and create a psionic storm.

[@Robert53area]

She can do more than that. She is a telepathic genius, she is faster than the jedi. If she punches Vader it would break him in half. She punched zeratul and he flew 65 feet across a room, zeratul weighs 312 lbs and is 8 foot 3. Just saying she was also able to out wit amon who is a literal God.

[@GoranXII]

@@Robert53area Yeah, but punching him requires getting close, while creating a psionic storm doesn't.

[@hylarson]

I just am thinking about the zerg on Kessel getting high AF now lollll

[@MugeTzu4]

​@@Robert53areadon't forget she became a XELNAGA so literally god

[@lordsnake1988]

Trying to get vader punched has 2 problems . First she would get dismembered before raising her arm. Or worse vader would just humilliate her by using force choke and stab her without effort at all. Kerrigan is not very clever but i guess she's ko as stupid

[@rhanmiglornhassaklordzerob1826]

If the Alexander is canon to Hots, then infested terrans are capable enough to use battlecruiser levels of technology. Something that may have been overlooked, is also that the overmind was able to launch itself as a self propelling cinetic projectile across worlds, and in this went from Char to Aiur. It does seem that the Zergs have precedents of terrifyingly quick movement through space, despite their ability to hold fights outside of atmospheres. All in all, it may be that the first force to have the initiative would mercilessly take down the other one. Be it the Empire by locking down their space quadrant, or the zergs, by infiltrating using changelins and infestation to the upper echelons of the Empire, up to the point they would be noticed by mind readers and force users, which would already be too late. This video is very interesting and was a blast to watch, many thanks for all your hard work, Grant, and for your appreciation of Stormtroopers - who actually wear armor that is second only to bescar, so you would need more than a flippin' hand blaster to take them down !!! - To whoever takes the time to read this, have a wonderful day ! (or night / and night ?)

[@CombatMagic]

Co-op assets aren't canon, but Alexander being an infested battlecruiser would be really cool and I wish it eventually shows up in canon.

[@Lunaraia]

There is proof that Zerg can infest tech even without going into Coop, just look at infested command centers from SC1, or the permanent neural parasite from HOTS campaign, that parasite can even take over robotic units, which proves that the Zerg can and will take control of even fully mechanical entities.

[@zxshadowxz]

@@CombatMagic While the Aleksander is canonically debatable (although I like to think it is, because…it’s cool.), it is worth acknowledging that Infested Terrans aren’t mindless, they’re still themselves just under the Zerg Hive’s control, and so all their knowledge of how to operate this technology should still exist, and be within the Swarm’s arsenal.

[@CombatMagic]

@@zxshadowxz it's not debatable, co-op has been confirmed not canon, as such the infested Aleksander is not canon. They can still bring it up in canon some day. And you can't be yourself and still be under control of the hivemind. Infested are just extensions of the hivemind, the end of the short story The Education of PFC Shane looks pretty finite that they lose their individuality, as does the short story Just An Overlord that for the infested gargantis proximae without the hivemind their individuality returns and stop thinking as "we". Still the infested prompted by the hivemind are able to operate small arms and vehicles, in the several missions infested marines use gauss rifles, and in Night Terrors specifically they can use banshees and siege tanks.

[@zxshadowxz]

@@CombatMagic Sorry, I phrased this poorly. I meant that infested Terran’s don’t go brain dead or lose their “data”, not that they have any autonomy within the Hive mind. They very much are just extensions of the Swarm (specific exceptions excluded.)

[@Lunaraia]

I feel that there is a rather important X factor on the Zerg side that's been somewhat forgotten. Let me just pull out Abathur's quote here: "Organism Stukov misunderstands. Death irrelevant. Only essence important." He said that, just before he healed and resurrected a headless Ultralisk using the essence remaining in the corpse. If even just a fraction of their forces can be reconstituted like that, given the numbers the Zerg operate with, that's still a near unstoppable amount of constant reinforcements the swarm has at its disposal. Not to mention Kerrigan could likely sacrifice a few million lesser forces to reconstitute any lost leviathans as well. Basically, permanently killing ANY of the Zerg leadership would be impossible. Zagara is loyal enough that she would order the retrieval and reconstitution of Kerrigan, as shown in the campaign itself when Kerrigan was severely wounded, and none of Kerrigan's advisors tried a coup when she was weakened, likely because Zagara is stronger than them and remained loyal, or in Dehaka's case because Kerrigan's survival is more beneficial to him. So only the wholesale slaughter of all the Zerg commanders near simultaneously would end things permanently as Kerrigan can spin strands and manipulate essence just like Abathur can. As shown when she made a nascent Broodmother in the span of a few seconds. It might not be on the same level, so it would take longer, but she most certainly can do it. And Stukov can use too, since he can create Infested Marines at practically at-will. Whether Izsha can do it I don't know, but I am pretty sure Zagara can, given she's a Broodmother.

[@NeilsonBuntowa]

not to mention dahaka is hunger in absorbing Essins. imagine him absorbing force sensitive intelligent creatures. zerg overall goal in life is to always assimilate and evolve. star wars galaxy would be fck.

[@lisaruhm6681]

WOuld they be able to rebuild them, when the planet they are on is destroyed?

[@Lunaraia]

@@lisaruhm6681 given the fact that essence seems to be... ethereal in nature, probably.

[@PieMoe]

I enjoyed the heck out of this video, and look forward to future thought experiments. This was actually pretty interesting, and I feel like it played out pretty similarly to a game of Stellaris where the Prethoryn Scourge invades, gets a foothold, and eventually forms a stalemate as it can't break the fortress systems.

[@dragonearth5456]

The big problem with that is those systems will run out of resources if it comes down to just fortress's and the core. Meanwhile the Zerg will have taken over everywhere else including once they get the purgel assimilated (or maybe before then) other galaxies the long game won't work for the Empire and cause of its slow moving government and problematic military leadership they would have a very hard time getting up to speed enough to stop the Zerg before the swarm has time to adapt and build up. I love SC and SW but when a relatively small Rebellion causes the collapse of the Empire they won't do well vs the Zerg who are just better than the Rebels.

[@Robinsong8008]

I really enjoyed this, I like that you didn't feel pressured to go into every potential crevice of lore and that you were willing to entertain and even land on a likely outcome other than X beats Y. I'd love to see similar videos in this style :).

[@addisonwelsh]

On one hand, I agree... on the other hand, do you have any idea how many random, obscure super weapons there are in Star Wars? If the setting wasn't so stuck in its tropes Palpatine could just throw darts at the wall to decide what specific war crime he wants to use to wipe the swarm off the map.

[@Robinsong8008]

@@addisonwelsh I am aware of a number of them. And while useful I cant think of any that could actually deal with more than a planet or two before being adapted to or killed in down time. Not to mention how some of them backfire (thinking the zombie virus stuff)

[@addisonwelsh]

@@Robinsong8008 Then you've clearly never heard of the Galaxy Gun, or, if Palps is feeling particularly spiteful, the Shawkin Device.

[@Robinsong8008]

@@addisonwelsh I have heard of the galaxy gun, though not the other one Xp while it's certainly an issue when your only option is blow up the majority of the galaxy/ having a single point of failure like that, I don't see it as an insta win. It's a problem but I think it basically just fills a similar role to the death star in the vid :)

[@addisonwelsh]

@@Robinsong8008 It could do more than just destroy planets. It could also hit targets in hyperspace, and could use less powerful shells to simply strip a planets surface bare of life, leaving its minerals fresh for the plundering... whether they could have been restored is unknown, since terraforming technology is one of those things Star Wars can't make up its mind about. And again, if Palps is feeling really spiteful he'll just activate the Shawkin device and turn the galaxy into a giant billiards table... He was very much an "if I can't have it, no one can" type of guy.

[@insertnamehere6659]

"He would easily be able to investigate this new galaxy as he investigates the bar." I like to think that the denizens of Tatooine are safe from infestation strictly because of Stukov coming to love what passes for alcoholic beverages in the Outer Rim.

[@perzival3244]

I do think it's worth noting that the zerg do have a couple anti-capital ship weapons; scourge are very cost efficient when they connect, corrupters are great at cracking through tough, heavily plated materials and devourers could easily be re-introduced and supported by spore cannons / bile launchers. The issue is that a lot of these can be unreliable; scourge are very small and fragile, and easily countered by smaller fighters. Devourers are great en masse but easily crushed if not supported and corrupters are similarly not great by themselves.

[@zxKAOS1]

If they're Zagara style-Scourge from Coop mode where they do splash damage... lights out! Then again, ships in Star Wars don't actually clump up in a very small area.