Could This End the Culture War? | Glenn Loury & Stephanie Lepp | The Glenn Show

[@jorettadrive9439]

Glenn's consistent steelmanning of opposing sides is the main reason I subscribe.

[@dranderson6071]

The culture wars will never end until politicians and media outlets stop artificially recreating them. In regards to the average person- don’t be lazy, don’t be a follower of stupidity, learn to appreciate, learn to respect others opinions, learn to communicate like adults . Love ya Glenn

[@africkinamerican]

The culture war is an artefact of massively excessive government power. First and foremost, in what is called the "education" system, the most target-rich environment with the most impressionable minds and therefore the most to gain by asserting hegemony Separate School from state. The culture war will disappear.

[@mariefrench44]

When it comes to race issues, I believe in looking at the problem honestly and squarely in the face so that instead of blaming the wrong people we fix the real problem. Encouraging racism as the woke movement is doing is so counterproductive. “Racism is not dead, but it is on life support - kept alive by politicians, race hustlers and people who get a sense of superiority by denouncing others as ‘racists’ ” ~ Thomas Sowell

[@lkae4]

Love how honest and humble this conversation is on both sides. Very encouraging.

[@jimdadosky]

Glenn took the words out of my mouth. As soon as I thought “he’s stuck” he said it out loud

[@moyagaioui3887]

The show started slow but I’m glad I watched until the end. Witnessing Glenn Loury with a lot less to say was rather enjoyable for me! 🤭

[@africkinamerican]

Perhaps the solution to war is more sovereignty, within a system of mutual respect and constitutional protection.

[@swcordovaf]

A very fantastic and nuanced conversation. It got me feeling more modest in what I think.

[@johnpaulgettelman86]

I would love to see her civil social discourse with Kendi X, Alyssa Garza, Bryanna Joy, Angela Davis, Patrice Coulier, Louis Farrakhan and Jesse Jackson.

[@AldiAldiFPen]

Why did you leave out Trump?

[@mikegray8776]

@@johnpaulgettelman86 I am sure that all the above would participate with the same open mind with which Glenn did. But, there again, reality was never my strong-point.

[@babyamyxo-o6c]

Briahna Joy Gray from @badfaith podcast?

[@MrKaviSpence]

This is what good faith intellectual wrestling looks like. I like the way the lady held her own against an intellectual juggernaut. Good stuff!

[@shels6687]

Her name is Stephanie Lepp.

[@JeffWok]

I've been called racist so much it doesn't even matter to me anymore. It used to matter more.

[@mkl4324-d9o]

Nice job as usual, Glenn

[@TheIncident-AT2023]

Wow. Just wow. This was beautiful.

[@robertkier9343]

In a compromise between good and evil, evil wins. We need to focus on how to reduce conflict.

[@carrdoug99]

This is the first time I've been taken aback by Glenn's comments. Glenn, you act as if modernity was inevitable. Capitalism made modernity possible. Do you think we'd be where we are without the Industrial Revolution (driven by capitalism)? Do you think the people you mentioned who want an air conditioner would have that aspirational goal without capitalism? Without capitalism, we'd still be living in a world of lords and serfs.

[@mikegray8776]

With respect, I think you slightly missed Glenn’s point. I think his point was that CHANGE was inevitable. “Modernity” as we now recognise it, was only one of several possible outcomes at the dawn of Industrialisation. Pure commune-ism was another, and dystopian post-feudal drudgery was a third. And there were many more. Glenn’s point is that you could NOT have delivered “Modernism” without capitalism, or something very similar. Almost no-one could have had this precise outcome in mind - or consciously worked precisely towards it - but, as you correctly identify, the standards we all enjoy today would never have occurred without some Free Enterprise mechanism. What Glenn perhaps does not fully acknowledge, however, is that many of the horrors which have accompanied that progress, could arguably have been avoided (or at least mitigated) by more thoughtful tuning of the capitalist mechanism - rather than relying absurdly on taxation as the only lever.

[@lmp23612]

@@mikegray8776 Many countries do have dystopian post-feudal drudgery, at least for all but the upper class.

[@mikegray8776]

@@lmp23612 Exactly. And the WEF would clearly prefer to see that as the default model ! …… Hence imaginary climate hysteria.

[@lmp23612]

@@mikegray8776 Welll I disagree about climate hysteria. I think the mass extinctions and changing climate are a real warning sign and indicate that our children will be facing unbelievable challenges. But I doubt it can be solved by a top down approach. We need a return to traditional values and more modest standard of living. I think we can learn a lot from the Amish who are capitalists but not modernists.

[@hooligan9794]

And those lords and serfs over thousands of years innovated slowly, because humans have always wanted more for less effort. By your argument you might as well indict knowledge as that is what allowed the industrial revolution.

[@lucabrasi8609]

Thanks for your content, Glenn. I'm a very regular watcher of your channel and it is intresting, informative and always food for thought. Great that you do this, especially in these times where skin color and race should dictate how you feel and what you think. Your approach is both refreshing and intellectually stimulating. Hope you go on for a long time.

[@oliverjamito9902]

Thank you our Beautiful Stephanie for attending unto our OWN! Love you too!

[@Rsvohi]

Excellent! This should have been 4 hours and focused on one topic. One of the challenges seems to be that she is offering examples of a very simple nature to aid the introductory understanding of a very complex, catalytic INTEGRAL, METAMODERN approach. In both Economics and Race related issues, GL brings a profound depth and experience drenched perspective. If you listen to his understanding of the race portion, his thoughts are deeper, more grounded in experience and more developmentally/evolutionarily oriented; he’s presenting a real time example of the process she is trying to explain, although, as she points out, he is doing it in a mode that is critical of the CH and XK perspectives. This is true of many folks in the Integral, postpost modern, and Metamodern camps. They have a great general theory, but very often are limited in depth. They understand the need for synthesis, to transcend and include, but they often attempt to integrate ideas that are popularized rhetorical notions instead of working into a particular field and integrating with expert level knowledge and experience.

[@SquirrelJones]

She’s describing Dialectical Materialism

[@alexuspus]

Dialectics, yes; materialism, not necessarily.

[@SquirrelJones]

@@alexuspus it’s the modern philosophy. Less Marx, more Dengh but with Foucault thrown in for extra flair.

[@JohanThiart]

Great discussion. This is a great project. Outrage is essential but also the problem, not to be avoided or the solution. Boring is great, when it creates great outcomes. “I want to side with Capitalism” is exactly what this project is attempting to shine a light on. Averaging two opposites does not create great outcomes. One cannot create a successful “Green New Deal” without deploying the forces of Capitalism.

[@oliverjamito9902]

Surrounding about the Paradise!

[@DireKnack]

I liked this, she had some great push back and for good reason takes personally critique of her project. This is a much needed project she's broaching. Liv Boeree is who was in the first video presented, she is also great. I was introduced to her by Daniel Schmachtenberger who I would love to have Glenn and John speak with.

[@DireKnack]

For more context on Schmactenberger, he is very much in the uninhibited human consumption is bad for the earth and in turn also bad for humans. Clearly a much more macro or long term view that would be interesting to see teased out.

[@Drixidamus]

Lady held her own. Great conversation

[@consenttruth524]

Wonderful Stephanie. Glenn is forgetting to state a key point to buffett his argument: USSR pollution was far worse & its exotraction more brutal.

[@ttttggggg636]

COMMUNISM/ SOCIALISM DOES NOT TAKE INPUT FROM THE CITIZENS AND WILL GLADLY DESTROY LAND, WATER, AIR AND LIVES.

[@johnpaulgettelman86]

I would love to see her manifest civil social discourse with Alexandria Ocasio Cortez

[@JackTorrance333]

Tribeswomen. Says everything.

[@mikegray8776]

I was very critical of Stephanie’s previous appearance on TGS - where she floundered to convey anything identifiable about the pseudo-concept of integrationalism/integralism … or whatever. This was MUCH better - demonstrating her ethos through examples 👍🏼. It’s still woolly, and still new age ritual liberal hand-wringing - but now it seems more relatable (if a little trite). I’m not convinced that Stephanie and her super-comfortable luncheon-club chums have too many answers yet - but perhaps she IS signalling a worthwhile shift towards critical overview - rather than enforced & uncomfortable compromise. Much, much better - thanks to both of you for an interesting conversation.

[@johnpaulgettelman86]

I would love to see her engage in civil social discourse with Noam Chomsky, Howard Zinn, Bernadine Dohrn.

[@cherylewers6322]

I know exactly what this guest is talking about, and I feel she's quite spot-on, actually.

[@HearthMoonRising1]

okay, I've seen the 4 videos, and I kind of get what this is about. I don't like how the issues are framed in any of the videos and I definitely don't agree with the synthesized version. But I do like the idea of new views emerging from opposing arguments, which I think is what Stephanie is talking about.

[@jacalyncrawford]

9:46 Yes. I try to do this all the time to cut through the buzz words to the real goal which is what can actually work..

[@LMarkWeeks]

The idea of witches enabled witch burning is brilliant.

[@kets70]

This is from the book Racecraft.

[@RoverT65536]

9:00 there is an irony in Stephanie mentioning the the video shown was cut and then the one we are watching is cut. I appreciate it could be to save time or remove the unnecessary distractions. Maybe that is the difference between a show and a podcast. I think what made long form podcasts popular was they seemed more trustworthy being uncut and adlib for a testing time.

[@safebelayer]

She forgot to include in her assessment of who is right; we are all naive and even jointly naive on any given issue.

[@rogerpenske2411]

Notice that the species that have disappeared are, for the most part, rats, bugs, serpents, and weeds

[@rogerpenske2411]

Hegel’s dialectic does not solve problems, it creates greater confusion

[@cherylewers6322]

Wonderful, especially in regards to complexity. But if we think we can leave certain aspects of the universe out of our perceptions, we basically become solipsists. How much and whose suffering needs to be replicated just enough to be remembered, and how can that replication be contained within the mirror of recognition? I look forward to "complex systems thinkers" dealing with ethics at a deeper level than all this faux-bridging and evading, especially when it comes to organic entities who've been reduced to states of pure suffering. Let's talk about genocides and factory farms, if we're going to fully utilize these new complex systems tools. Too many of my friends use it as an escape from uncomfortable reality.

[@dennisobrien3133]

She shifts to non-duality at the end. If the recognition of a unified planetary people is the goal we need international and global cooperation. That’s is a tall order.

[@mikegray8776]

@@dennisobrien3133 There is no force, yet identified, which can unify ONE modern country - much less a planet of more than 200 of them !! Those who control the wealth - and thereby, most of the conversation - almost never hold a remotely similar view to the average citizen. Universalism becomes LESS likely with each increasingly disenchanted generation. Having refused to grasp the nettle after WW2, it is hard to imagine what galvanising force could overcome the degree of mindless and petty identitarianism which now fragments every single society.

[@mirandac8712]

brutal

[@Pasta-B1FBA]

6/15/24 Historic

[@oliverjamito9902]

Beautiful will say, "i" infant daughter from HIS SIDE!

[@johnpaulgettelman86]

I think that I have been on a similar track for about a quarter century.

[@dls78731]

Impressions from 15 minutes in: Stephanie is trying to reinvigorate valuable constructive dialog space. One of her example videos focuses on the capitalism/anti-capitalism debate which has (nearly) bottomed out completely and it is devolved into simple negation (No it hasn't. Yes it has. No it hasn't. Yes it has....). And Glenn's response reminds me of the Spinal Tap arguments: Capitalism has better/louder amps, and Anti-capitalists argue that all amplified music leads to deafness, so only acoustic instruments should be allowed. Why can't anti-capitalists acknowledge that Capitalism's amp goes to 11 rather than 10?

[@lmp23612]

Modernity is not inevitable. Let's look at the Amish. They are definitely capitalists but have not embraced modernity. I think Glenn is underestimating the force of advertising/media on creating modernity. Advertising/media is a component of capitalism for sure.

[@oliverjamito9902]

Remember without the shared "i" AM=YOU!

[@glennmitchell9107]

Does capitalism prioritize profit, or is profit simply one of several mechanisms or characteristics that describe how capitalism works? I would say capitalism prioritizes voluntary exchanges of things. However, one could say voluntary exchange is another mechanism or characteristic of capitalism.

[@oliverjamito9902]

Many don't even know their own names in front!

[@johns.7297]

Basic and AIT, 24 x 11= 264 weekends; 24 x 2= 48 weeks at Camp Ripley. I'd say he did plenty of time in the National Guard.

[@johnpaulgettelman86]

Ludwig Von Mises's Economic and Sociological Analysis of Socialism, Ayn Rand,Hayek, Sowell, Friedman, Individualist social life The human race is based on the methodology of Individual social analysis.

[@psychonautseventen2249]

Glenn I've heard her a few times now and I don't know how to say it but she's swimming in the shallow end of the pool. She needs more time.

[@oliverjamito9902]

Pop Glenn both from my 2 EDGES SWORD Forefathers 2 little infant daughter sitteth besides ME! Noone can pluck away!

[@meshgraphics]

Pro Tip: If you want to bring both sides together don't use Marxist language. Thesis, antithesis, goodbye

[@johnpaulgettelman86]

On a positive note, she would probably enjoy chats with John Stossel.

[@deborahfuller8203]

Call what off! Lol! Im from BC Canada, grown up all my life in multiculturalism. I have biracial children and never had any issues. But, when I found out about 'White privilege', I was in the car, bringing my 22 year old daughter home from Douglas College. The mumbo jumbo spewing from her mouth was overwhelming. School is a major issue with this dilemma!

[@glennmitchell9107]

Is it sufficient that race (or ethnicity of any kind) exists culturally, academically, artistically, and historically, but not politically, not within the scope of government?

[@oliverjamito9902]

Some will say Who's fingerprint is that? Some will say, is the fingerprint of....?

[@bloviatormaximus1766]

Brevity does serious injury to accurate descriptions of complex relationships. this discussion has reinforced my deep suspicion of other people rigging the outcome limiting my freedom and keeping we (society) gather some flour and some radical reformer makes paste for paper mache with resources meant for bread the metaphor we have ingredients but we can't agree about who doesn't have any say in what kind of cake are we imagineering? Because if my "Equitable share" will only make one muffin how much in taxes or rent seeking do I have to pay to be granted the means to cook my "ration"? imaginary problems to claim power

[@吉澤洋治]

I side with Glenn. Lepp is just slippery.

[@Unkuuu]

Im sorry but Stephanie did not do a good job of defending her mission. She proposes ways of thinking and “solutions” cannot even defend when pressed about (eg Ibrahm X Kendi vs Coleman Hughes)

[@buckstraw925]

What was the opportunity cost of capitalism? What was missed?

[@Pasta-B1FBA]

♟️we are the new normal BGR ✍️🏾

[@williamculver1274]

Give me the hard logic of Whitehead and Russel over this any day.

[@Pasta-B1FBA]

Hidden History Museum Historic

[@oliverjamito9902]

Remember thy shared Feet in front!

[@rogerpenske2411]

Fundamental flaw in all forms of government is that they are run by fallen people in a fallen world. See Genesis 3

[@oliverjamito9902]

1ST. Who are You?

[@oliverjamito9902]

Name nor names come here in front and remind! LORD thy shared "i" AM! Why say?

[@oliverjamito9902]

Why? Obviously without "Nought"! In front!

[@dylanbuttera]

Good conversation but seemed a bit mismatched on the horsepower. Begs some good questions though.

[@karengertrude]

more than a bit - Glenn’s discourse towers

[@rogerpenske2411]

Notice that the species that have disappeared our, for the most part, rats, bugs, serpentS, and weeds

[@Marcus007]

Gee, so many of yr jguests have something in common...

[@tygold8554]

I was trying to figure out the target audience for these videos. I'm thinking a high school civics or social studies class - they're too complex for young kids while being overly simplistic for adults.

[@thierryf2789]

Oh you are such an intelligent person

[@nancya7289]

What brings me back to Glenn (while disagreeing with where he lands on numerous issues) is delighting in how he frames arguments. Also, he's so damn charming. Kudos to him for being able to connect to artists and Liberals. Stephanie and Glenn see each other. She supported his earliest attempts to witness himself, lay himself bare to himself, and experience the resulting growth that informed his memoir. Earlier today I was listening to NYTimes pundits weighing in post DNC. I found myself gravitating to (what strikes me as) more rational commentary from the Right. For those not in the know, these are old school rational conservatives. The Times doesn't have MAGA columnists on staff because they couldn't find any who were able to speak factually. (For example, if you assert the 2020 election was stolen, you flunk that sole criterion.) There was much discussion about how close this election is going to be. Of course. Our country shows up as polarized electorally, despite loads of evidence pointing to most Americans being in agreement about sensible gun control measures, sensible immigration measures, sensible women's healthcare access, etc etc And yet we, as a country, bifurcate into enraged opposites. Enter Stephanie working the dialectic. I'm baffled by comments that her thinking is lightweight. She talks like an artist, not an economist. So that's dumb? The lady is dropping Hegelian bombs of thesis, antithesis, synthesis. Sounds plenty smart to me -- beautifully calibrated to speak to this post-memoir, pre-election moment.

[@williamkeys6782]

Once again Glenn turns to left-leaning jewish academic economists, such as Harry Holzer et al, for answers. The trouble is that these jewish academics are far removed from actual grass roots aggressive male mentaliy. My advantage is having lived with Africans in central Africa and I know that by genetics they are great warriers and thus make excellent modern day sports champions and musicians. What do you think rap music is all about. My prescription is to face-the-facts and stop putting one's head in the sand. My policy settings (1) Merit and nothing but merit. (2) No DEI (3) Stay true to 'black letter law' in the Constitution (4) Government assistance limited to those that fall through the cracks, through NO FAULT IOF THEIR OWN. (5) Education in civics should be mandatory in junior school. My last suggestion is to institute COMPULSORY MILITARY SERVICE for all US men, especially left-leaning liberals and male jewish academics.

[@GulagMoosefeller]

She has great ideas, but she's stuck with the liberal stereotype that capitalism is a system of governance beyond the economy. It's not socio-economic. What the heck is that? Obviously it's not. She needs to define capitalism before she uses the word. I propose a new definition of capitalism: a mathematic-driven system of capital trade.

[@oliverjamito9902]

Nevertheless ye prefer Who am I? In front!

[@litcrit1624]

Please remove the kung-fu sound effects. Then we can transcend race.

[@ronnieprettyman4818]

As a 64 yr old have a hard time with these young intellectuals they have no real skin in the game total turn off to people who aren’t as privileged as these people

[@dandybufo9664]

In what way no skin in the game ? Projecting into the future they have to live, while those our age are soon to exit, and live or perhaps more accurately, endure, what is appearing to be a significantly more tumultuous life created by our present decisions.

[@oliverjamito9902]

Shared clay FEET MIXED WITH IRON resting upon HIS FOOTSTOOL will say? Without HIS MEEKS shared Feet. What is this and that?

[@carlosgaspar8447]

the race argument that begins with the african american narrative is false from the very start. this distills africa (a huge continent) to some narrow minded ideology. just look at the civil war in sudan. the civil war in lybia. disagreement of borders in moracco/mauritania. ethnic violence between tribes in south africa (zulus?). border violence between somalia/kenya. civil war of the tigray in ethiopia and now starving (where is bob marley). religious wars in mali. which ethnic group does glenn belong to because even nigeria and the dnc are very large and divided between tribes. and if your ancestors did belong to some country in africa, does that country even exist today as we know it. my vote is with coleman hughes.

[@Star-hg1kt]

South Africa has no ethnic tribe, gone are the Shaka Zulu days.

[@AmberWarnack]

Is this similar to what Barbara Marx was doing?

[@ronnieprettyman4818]

This girl is cute but my goodness did ever c anyone talk in circles like this gosh

[@chuckmowry5951]

Marxist analysis will solve all the problems....SMH.

[@kans6]

You’re not helping Loury…..you go back and forth as if it’s your right… and I’m sick of it… and I used to be one of your biggest fans

[@NathanHall-lo3xu]

What does/can 'dismantle race' mean? It's a fact to be lived with, celebrated even, etc blah blah. All this reminds me of the apologist argument that 'both sides' should be taught. 'Race was invented to perpetrate race-ism' - I mean really? That is like saying cars were invented so we could have car accidents.

[@frankj.2426]

I can’t listen to this guest, her communication style is excruciating to listen to … I’ll be back for the next episode though.

[@williamculver1274]

Man, I find Hegelian dialectical framing annoying.

[@phillipjohnson1459]

She's the problem

[@JackTorrance333]

Her and the millions of other Marxist trained acolytes.

[@carlosgaspar8447]

explain

[@dandybufo9664]

How is she the problem ?

[@mrfloydp]

Capitalism is the one true religion that rules the world. The winners have the power and have no reason to change. When profit is your top priority, all others go by the wayside. Sustainability, equality, etc. And capitalism IS modernity. You can’t separate them. So it is fair to blame capitalism for inequality and environmental destruction. Regulation is necessary to prevent capitalists from becoming too powerful and destroying the planet.

[@carlosgaspar8447]

absolutely. even fair minded people fall to the grasps of capitalism which i believe runs mostly on a source of cheap energy which in turn allows products to be mass produced and soon discarded.

[@jgalt308]

I didn't realize that the winners were capitalists or had the power? I didn't realize that capitalism was a synonym for government? I didn't realize that those with the power had to corrupt those without it? I didn't realize that profit was a synonym for theft? I didn't realize subjective preferences were capable of altering objective truths? I didn't realize that hindsight was a valid argument that could be used to pronounce judgement on actions whose results were unknowable?

[@carlosgaspar8447]

@@jgalt308 the irish potato famine was in large part the result of unchecked capitalism which allowed the export of potatoes at the mercy of irish citizens...

[@jgalt308]

@@carlosgaspar8447 I didn't realize that capitalism was a synonym for government? Much of the financial burden of providing for the starving Irish peasantry was thrown upon the Irish landowners themselves (through local poor relief) and British absentee landowners. Because the peasantry was unable to pay its rents, however, the landlords soon ran out of funds with which to support them, and the result was that hundreds of thousands of Irish tenant farmers and labourers were evicted during the years of the crisis. Under the terms of the harsh 1834 British Poor Law, enacted in 1838 in Ireland, the “able-bodied” indigent were sent to workhouses rather than being given famine relief per se. British assistance was limited to loans, helping to fund soup kitchens, and providing employment on road building and other public works. The Irish disliked the imported cornmeal, and reliance on it led to nutritional deficiencies. Despite those shortcomings, by August 1847 as many as three million people were receiving rations at soup kitchens. All in all, the British government spent about £8 million on relief, and some private relief funds were raised as well. The impoverished Irish peasantry, lacking the money to purchase the foods their farms produced, continued throughout the famine to export grain, meat, and other high-quality foods to Britain. The government’s grudging and ineffective measures to relieve the famine’s distress intensified the resentment of British rule among the Irish people. Similarly damaging was the attitude among many British intellectuals that the crisis was a predictable and not-unwelcome corrective to high birth rates in the preceding decades and perceived flaws, in their opinion, in the Irish national character. ( see Michael Hudson for an explanation of the rentier economy an its aristocratic feudal origins )

[@jgalt308]

@@carlosgaspar8447 What is capitalism? Michael Hudson: "Fortunately, I’ve written all about this in my book, Killing the Host. What is Capitalism? What we have today is not the capitalism that we had either When Richard and I went to school or in the 19th century, the kind of capitalism that everyone was talking about in the 19th century, both from Adam Smith and Ricardo through Marx and everyone else, was industrial capitalism. The whole idea was that when they talked about capital, they were talking about industrial capital. They weren’t talking about land or rent, they weren’t talking about monopolies, they weren’t talking about finance. ( Marx ) Discussed this in volume two three. But he ( Marx ) said, I don’t have to talk about rent and monopolies in finance. Industrial capitalism is going to get rid of that in order to become a low-cost economy and in order to compete with other economies."

[@rogerpenske2411]

Fundamental flaw in all forms of government is that they are run by fallen people in a fallen world. See Genesis 3