Crafting Example in Pathfinder 2e Remastered

[@andrewjohns9855]

Thanks for the video as always. Only thing I would like to point out(which really does not have any bearing on this video) is Half-Plate is a level 1 item and would not be found in the basic crafter's book. Just offering clarity. Once again I love your videos and the work you put into them. Thank you for your contributions to our community.

[@HowItsPlayed]

Ah, good point. I have a bad habit of assuming all that common gear in the book is included in a crafter's book.

[@lightblckknight]

Very succinct and easy to understand. 😊

[@smatt9132]

I'm hopeful that the upcoming remaster of the crafter classes (Alchemist and Inventor) that they include features that make them better or even just faster at downtime crafting compared to other classes.

[@blankiecat9302]

I could totaly see treat your level as one high when craftering your item

[@MonkeyNinja99]

Thanks for breaking this down to the basics!

[@somecallmetimelderberries432]

Very nice, thanks for the explanation!

[@voinuppla]

Thank you for the perfectly delivered Example. Now even a dummy like me can get it 😃

[@drunemeton]

This system is weird. It seems predicated on the idea that PF2 is a video game, and any crafting rules that allow a PC to make something that doesn't cost just as much as outright buying it, or doesn't take a lot of in-game "downtime" days, is somehow going to break the game. Crafting should be satisfying to the player and controllable by the GM. The specialities should be tiered, meaning that a poem is faster and cheaper than plate mail, and your proficiency should be meaningful throughout the process. But any hoo… Thanks Dave for the awesome video that fully explains how crafting works in PF2! (Also Happy New Year!)

[@jakubczeczot8500]

plain and simple! +1

[@Dimitrishuter]

and every +1 matters :)

[@besteger]

What caused the GM to choose a target number of 14?

[@jhonjimenez2844]

Hello, this is because Level base DCs. Here you will find that level 0 is 14.. lev 1 is 15, lev 2 is 16, lev 3 is 18.. and so on.

[@HowItsPlayed]

In addition to what has already been shared, you can find the DCs by level table on page 53 of GM Core.

[@MikeLemmons]

Thanks!

[@stormy7722]

new to pf2e. What would be the benefit of crafting the armor if the price is identical to buying it from a shop, and crafting could cost you money with no result?

[@HowItsPlayed]

You likely wouldn't use crafting to make something you can walk into a store and buy. Instead, you would use it to make things that aren't easily purchased. This video goes into that and other frequent concerns with crafting: kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z4Cmq6x5ZaqkrdEsi=O85HSYI_l21CreKm

[@itsteelworks]

Depending on the campaign, you could have a Spacious Pouch full of crafting materials you looted from everything not nailed down, but be 100 miles from a worthwhile store

[@thekingofcats27]

The description of the repair kit makes it seem like it could be a generally usefull kit for crafting in general

[@adriandellatorre2489]

Are there any explanations to why crafting checks have their DCs secret?

[@HowItsPlayed]

It's probably not that big a deal. The example sidebar specifically says the GM chooses the DC in secret, but I think that's probably because most GMs keep the DCs secret... not that they have to.

[@adriandellatorre2489]

​@@HowItsPlayed Yeah, I was first kinda confused, thinking that the Crafting activity was made secret, but it specifically says about the DC... Well, it was simply curiosity. Thank you very much for taking your time to answer =)

[@PyroMancer2k]

I don't look for a reason to explain why the character "finished early" like in the example but rather why it took so long since the 2 days should be the normal time if you put everything in up front thus there is no finishing early. I instead reason that they were taking their time trying to optimize the crafting process to save on limited materials without the normal rushed 2 day method that can be more wasteful.

[@goodsprotyousif6010]

Is the flat time 2 days now for all items or just common items? Apologies, I have the books coming for Christmas, but have an alkenstar campaign with an inventor and want to facilitate faster crafting if its now a thing.

[@drunemeton]

For "Common" items the 2 days is for any item, 1 day is if you have the formula. All other requirements apply.

[@RollingSoloRPG]

Does a PC need magical crafting to REPAIR a magical item?

[@HowItsPlayed]

Not by RAW, but this is an area where some GMs may prefer that you do have the feat.

[@RollingSoloRPG]

@@HowItsPlayed thanks Dave, you're the best!

[@SuperParkourio]

Isn't half plate level 1?

[@1989Yamashita]

I am sorry, but how does the 1-Day crafting come together? The old rules had 4 days for crafting and the new rules give 4 days for consumables and 6 days for permanent items, with a reduced time if you are higher level than the item, but that only deducts up to 2 days.

[@zanderzingh]

Those are the Treasure Vault rules. They are compatible and meant to be used with Pre-Remaster crafting rules. This video is not talking about Pre-Remaster + Treasure Vault. That video is in the video description as said at the start of the video. Post-Remaster / 2023 GM Core rules state 2 days flat setup time instead of 4 days, reduced to 1 day setup time if you have a formula (as explained in the video).

[@smatt9132]

Wait, isn't the level of the item is supposed to be equal to the Task Level? So if she is trained and making a 0th level item andnspent an extra day of downtime she should save 5cp and not 5sp. Or is there something I am misinterpreting?

[@codethulhu]

The Task level in the cut-in is from the earning money in downtime table, where your character level is used. Higher level characters are assumed to be more skilled and therefore able to earn more money working for a day.

[@HowItsPlayed]

Coethulu is correct! When determining the amount of money saved by spending an extra day working, you use your level instead of the task level on the Income Earned table. This way, the discount scales with the character's level. So, a Legendary Crafter will complete crafting the item much faster than a novice.

[@icevlad148]

I don't understand how this is different from earning income and then buying the item.

[@WarSongParadise]

Nicely explained, but honestly - all that complexity for a minor monetary gain is just not my type of roleplaying. But if that suits your party, then craft you shall with all your might!

[@Gareck66]

In the last video, it was explained that another good reason to craft is if the item just isn't available to you. Crafting is sometimes the only way to get access to an item you want... at least, if the DM makes certain items unavailable.

[@chrizzlybear5565]

That's the best part: Crafting is only as important as you want it to be. If no one in your group cares about it, the GM can simply make everything always available everywhere. If instead a player is really into crafting, the GM might enforce availability limits based on settlement level and storage capabilities of a shop; they might also hand out formulas for uncommon or rare items as loot, so the player gets to craft something really special. Lastly, it may be relevant who crafted an item for story reasons.

[@geraldstacy3658]

Perfect explanation, thank you. That said, this rule is only slightly better than the pre-remaster version. In the end, she could've just bought the suit outright and made more money by using crafting to earn income. There is no mechanical advantage to doing your own crafting. At the very least, I would say successful crafting checks after the initial roll provide double "income" to make the process actually rewarding.

[@chrizzlybear5565]

@@geraldstacy3658 That's only true if that kind of armour was sold in the settlement she was in, which may not be the case, especially for higher level items in a low level settlement. It also assumes that she would be able to find a job at her level, which is only possible in settlements of her level or higher. Finding such a job may even cost some time spent job hunting. So your statement is only true if there is a black smith of at least her level who is willing to hire her the very same day she shows up at his smithy.

[@kevinbarnard355]

@@geraldstacy3658She gets to control the level of job (her level). She isn't relying on the GM to have a job available of her level. She will usually make more progress earning income by making the item, especially if it's a lower level consumable, than hunting for a job which will typically not be her level. Comparing earned income per day is only in favor of working if there are jobs of her PC's level that she has the same level of proficiency in as her Crafting skill in a town that can support that job level. Also, good luck working to Earn Income at your party's base of operations outside of town, or in the dungeon's alchemy lab you discover.

[@danielprows6416]

Sorry I seem to be struggling to get this In this example is the final cost of the armor 9gp + 70sp or is it just 70sp? If it’s the former, and one day of crafting would bring it to 9gp + 9gp, what would the purpose be of crafting vs buying? Is it just because the item might not be for sale, or if it’s rare? Seems like in the end you bought it at full price but with a skill check involved.

[@mistamichal]

Yeah. I don't get it, either. I just doesn't make sense if you basically end up paying the full price anyway.

[@edwardschwarz665]

It boils down to a)you end up paying the full price (useful when the item isn't sold by merchants or you need an item fast) or b)you keep working to reduce the cost with the minimun being half the items price (good when you have a lot of downtime)

[@kevinbarnard355]

In answer to your confusion, the final price will be the same as buying the item from a store (18 GP). However, her labor since she kept working on the item, will pay for some of that cost. The example armor will cost the character a total of 16 gp (9 gp +70 SP), saving her 2 GP that she earned from 4 days of working beyond the initial day to begin the construction. You can see it in the graphic at 5:30. Day 1 cost her 9 gp of raw materials. Day 5 she paid for the apprentices to finish the piece faster. Crafting does not inherently make an item cheaper, it allows you to trade your labor (days working) for material that supplements the cost. There are feats to improve your productivity (like impeccable crafting), but in general the Craft activity serves to make the item available. 1.) Settlements have an item level maximum that they can buy and sell at. If you want a higher level item, then you have to go to a higher level settlement, or have it shipped in with delivery costs added. Craft allows you to circumvent that, since you decide to make it yourself. 2.) Craft also allows you to work (earn income) at your character's level instead of a random job level offered by the GM. In a level 4 settlement, you won't normally find jobs to work that are higher offerings than about level 4. If you are a level 5+ character, then you will be making more money at the craft activity, than you would if working a level 0-4 job for NPCs.

[@CubbyTv24]

This doesn't explain why you would craft instead of just buying it outright after earning income for all those days. Whats the price difference between doing that?

[@drunemeton]

If you choose to continue crafting, and do so until you've made enough to pay off the balance, then you'll have paid 1/2 price for the item. (50% at the start, 50% worked off over time.) In PF2 the main point of crafting is usually that you're someplace that doesn't sell what you need, so you have the option of making it yourself.

[@Damion.Turner]

Succinct and we'll explained.. however I feel paying the remainder of money after you have spent days crafting at a forge is stupid. A far better system would to rent the forge to you for I don't know 1 to 10 gold pieces per day.. and then use the crafting skill to circumvent the additional mark up "sales price" of the item. If you're already paying time and raw material costs to make the item.. then you shouldn't need to pay again once you have made the item. Also if you hired a trade person to do the crafting for you.. then you might as well hire the blacksmith and use him as a crafting proxy instead of you doing the work.. or you could assist him and shorten the crafting process to just a few days, because the blacksmith knows what he is doing and knows the forge and can knock out a breastplate faster then a novice with a blacksmiths forge. Doing it this way you could reduce the sales cost of the item by say 25% and you get custom made armour that fits you perfectly.

[@kevinbarnard355]

Why would a blacksmith make an item for you, and give you a discount on the item, when he could make it and sell it at full price without your help? The smith doesn't need your help to finish the task, it's their job. Neither does a cook at a restaurant need your help to make an omelet so you can save 25% on the bill. It's a simplified system to keep downtime activities worth about the same amount of extra GP. Otherwise, some characters will have significantly more GP than others and can buy themselves into more power than the rest of the group. Worse, they could buy the whole party into higher tiers of power like PF1 or D&D 3.5. The simple answer is not to fret over downtime activities, and hand wave it. The more complex answer is some groups don't want to break the item/wealth by level economy buy allowing crafting to be superior to buying stuff from a store.

[@Damion.Turner]

@@kevinbarnard355 The best system is to do away with crafting altogether.. because as written during adventure a player character can only make "shoddy" items on the fly. A simple raw material mechanic would be better.. you find a quick silver ingot during your travels and the local blacksmith can make you one quick silver item for a price. No time tax. No additional raw material tax. No additional "crafting" checks.. just pay for the item and come back when it's done.

[@boris_bulletdodger9109]

Positive comment

[@theangler1922]

Crafting seems so useless.

[@Jason-iy9yc]

Crafting is still garbage

[@jacobbuckland-seward8038]

Why do you feel this way? I am trying to figure out if its good or not still.

[@devcrom3]

No u

[@kevinbarnard355]

@@jacobbuckland-seward8038 It's not better than any other option. It has about the same value as Earning income. What it does is offer you the freedom to make what you want/need without being limited by the settlement you are in/near. Without Impeccable Crafting, you aren't really saving money. You are expanding access. The small, cozy hamlet you have your first adventure in probably doesn't carry an unlimited supply of bombs in the general store. They have no need for them. They might not have a need for armor either. They are simple folk who need nails, horses shod, and barrels/wagon wheels made/mended. You, as a crafting PC, get to decide what's available and in what quantity. All 4 party members want a Coyote Cloak? Even if there is one in the shop, they probably don't have 4. They can order you 3 more from the big town a week or 2 away, but it'll cost extra for delivery, or you have to go there and back to get it. You aren't likely working to earn income for downtime if you are traveling there and back again. You also get to "produce wealth" at your character's level, instead of an arbitrary job level set by the GM. Once again, your level 6+ PC in a hamlet that's level 4 will not likely find a job (level 0-4 usually) that will earn him as much GP/day as making the item himself with Craft (level 6).

[@corentinroy8925]

@@jacobbuckland-seward8038 From my point of view, crafting is very underwhelming because you basicly need nearly as much money to craft than to buy the items. Imagine being a legendary crafter and making an item that sells for 2000gp, you need either 1000gp and then work for a 1000 day so nearly 3 years (for just one item !) or you put 1000gp + 1000gp after one day of work. Why not just buy the item then ? The only in-game reason that could justify it, is that the item is from an ancient parchment or whatever, but that should be a very rare exception.

[@jacobbuckland-seward8038]

@corentinroy8925 I guess it depends on your table you play at. Story wise, some people want to craft their weapons and it feels legendary to do that. I have a group of players in a newly formed settlement, so they have to craft their gear because it is not available. I understand where you are coming from. It ends up being time vs money.