CRAZY DnD Player Calls Another An INCEL | r/rpghorrorstories

[@marybdrake1472]

Yet another player looking for problems that don't exist. One who wouldn't know racism, sexism, or being an incell if she was slapped in the face by these things. It's good that she left, she was no more than a problem player in making.

[@Allantitan]

And glad it was before it got worse

[@ThePlayplay64]

I find most people like that are just projecting.

[@solosynapse]

​@@ThePlayplay64I wouldn't say most, just an obnoxiously visible minority.

[@Xeirn]

@@solosynapse I'd say most. Unless you mean majority of this kind of people are just useful idiots for the ones projecting.

[@eddy_malouempereur_du_cong6536]

So regretting leaving your wife and child because of a war going on in an incel thing ? Interesting

[@littlegiantj8761]

Men die in war; women most affected

[@ArcCaravan]

Maybe she treated it as bragging about getting laid somehow?

[@solosynapse]

​@@littlegiantj8761...what?

[@philo-]

@@solosynapse That phrase/quote is an on-going joke, and reference to a quote from Hillary Clinton (then first lady of the USA) in which she stated that women are the "primary victims of war." It is used in instances where, perceivably, a woman is trying to take attention for herself from, and/or belittle men - such as in this case, where a woman called a man an "incel" for creating a character that had a wife and children, and missed them (which is obviously nonsensical).

[@Spellweaver5]

I can definitely imagine the first horror story told from Jess' perspective, titled "incel powergamer ruins the game", with several hundred upvotes, and people universally agreeing that the warforged player was horrible and sexist. Which is, in all honesty, depressing.

[@ArcCaravan]

Probably would claim warforged were an explicit ban or the player got magical items.

[@Spellweaver5]

@@ArcCaravan "he was unfriendly with both girls, and when we confronted him about it, he said that it's what his character would do because of some made-up reason".

[@mrosskne]

sexism is based

[@cyruscrompton8221]

It does make me wonder what her side of the story was, it does happen a lot where the OP victimizes himself. Not to say it happened with this one, but its at least worth looking into. People don't just randomly call people horrible things... But maybe she really is crazy! That also happens a LOT

[@CatLover-gk8uu]

Why do people insist on making up depressing scenarios in their head like this? It’s like you just want to feel upset.

[@Juju2927]

First Story : Feels like Jess expected to Spotligh Hog this campaign, and was annoyed that someone else got something "special".

[@unicornactual3432]

Or op made it up. All that story was missing was 'and then everyone clapped and said how badass my character was'

[@thespectacularspider-man2549]

I feel like the whole: "I don't trust you because of my past and/or ignorance but still work together with you because this is a team based game." Is perfectly acceptable if done right because nobody is left out and the game continues as normal. I've seen people with backstories like that be roleplayed war worse and end campaigns.

[@Xeirn]

The "I don't trust you because of my past and/or ignorance but still work together with you because this is a team based game." can work great. For example see Gimli and Legolas.

[@brianvance1178]

First Story: I think Jess was projecting her own faults on OP

[@M_Alexander]

Or at least, anyone she doesn't like (such as being jealous of) must be the worst kind of person

[@coreyfogarty4469]

The mage challenge rating must have been *THE DREADED STEREOTYPICAL DMPC LEVEL*

[@ArcCaravan]

Sounds about right. That or a level 392 character to be on par with 7 tables of 7 level 8 characters.

[@alphons1456o]

I can relate to the idea of not knowing etiquette and being taught properly. When I first started playing Pathfinder and joined the Pathfinder Society (think Adventurer's League), the DM I signed up to join described a monster, and I flipped through the bestiary to see what it looked like. One of the other players just tapped my shoulder and said gently that it was a faux pas to look into the bestiary when you're a player, so I stopped and never did that again. I can guarantee that if that player screamed in my face or called me a cheater, I wouldn't be here as a TTRPG enjoyer today

[@GarkKahn]

Same, i stopped playing mobas because everyone expected me as a new player to know every abbreviation and meaning of every tactic I would like to be like them and born already knowing everything...

[@Allantitan]

I made that mistake as a new player as well glad my dm calmly explained it to me as well

[@moritzlinden7169]

I recently had the weirdest DnD experience ever. One guy kept making advances to a female PC, at some point starting to offer her monex for sex. The player did not like that, so we put a stop to it. Then the guy, after the session, asked the player for sex and offered money. When we were shocked by that, he said that she was a prostitute, he had seen her on a local brothel's website (happend in Germany, brothels are completely legal). And she said that, yes, she is a prostitute, but she is not at work right now, so he should stop that. When he did it again next session, we had to kick him.

[@ArcCaravan]

Wow.

[@nova_supreme8390]

Note to that guy: Prostitutes are not 24/7 vending machines selling sex.

[@ArcCaravan]

@@nova_supreme8390 That just makes me wonder why he didn't just ask her during business hours.

[@JoshtheOverlander]

​@@ArcCaravan After what happened, I doubt she'd want his money even during her work hours.

[@MortusVanDerHell]

Let's face it, the monk saved the paladin from a poison attack with concentrated alcohol, as anything that would give such a massive character, already used to alcohol, THREE levels of exhaustion would have killed the paladin for sure. ^^

[@davidtherwhanger6795]

Exhaustion Story. Getting three levels of exhaustion all at once is not what any amount of alcohol does to you. I'm a sailor, I know. It is something that creeps up on you. A level here and there until they add up to three. Getting all three at once (one roll) is like getting hit with a Tranquilizer Dart kinda action.

[@Slashthekitsune]

Three levels of exhaustion is the equivalent of going several days without sleep in 5th edition, so, it's even worse than that. You'd pass out from inebriation LONG before you reached that level.

[@Slashthekitsune]

@@awayaccathrowaw9601 ...OH. oooooh. I see. That... That makes sense.

[@awayaccathrowaw9601]

@@Slashthekitsune to be honest i re-read it and now i'm just confused. Was that a hypothetical or not?

[@Slashthekitsune]

@@awayaccathrowaw9601 It made sense as a theory to what the DM was thinking. ...Did you delete your original comment?

[@awayaccathrowaw9601]

@@Slashthekitsune yes, because i'm not sure if i understood the post right.

[@jasonrustmann7535]

"by some coincidence, they both were playing tiflings" bro. Ain't no coincidence there, you got a 90% chance of any given chick playing d&d to be a tifling lol

[@megatronjenkins2473]

5:13 almost spit out my coffee, I haven't heard THAT name in YEARS!

[@mrosskne]

there's no name at that time stamp

[@fred_derf]

Power Word Kill is a 9th level spell which makes the BBEG at least 17th level. And they should only be able to have a single 9th level spell prepared. Add in all the clones and this was clearly an over powered encounter.

[@mrosskne]

The DM is not and should not be subject to the same limitations as the players when creating opposition.

[@fred_derf]

@@mrosskne, writes _"The DM is not and should not be subject to the same limitations as the players when creating opposition."_ I was pointing out some simple "facts" (rules) that demonstrate that the encounter was clearly overpowered. 7-8th level characters taking on a 17th level Wizard with an army of clones is not "balanced". The only surprising thing is there wasn't a total multi-table TPK.

[@mrosskne]

@@fred_derf so when the players are level 1, there are no ancient dragons anywhere in the universe?

[@Slashthekitsune]

@@mrosskne 9th level spells are an exception. Unless you're fighting something that at least qualifies as a minor deity, it should not have multiple 9th level spell slots. 9th level spells are straight up reality warping. Even ANCIENT DRAGONS only can cast one 9th level spell per long rest.

[@mrosskne]

@@Slashthekitsune I guess it's a good thing there's no such thing as scrolls, wands, or staffs in D&D.

[@KugelBlitz0]

We've reached a point where the term "incel" means nothing. It's just a catch all term for "I dont like this person, so he's an incel."

[@monikasernek1177]

Elephants have a low tolerance for alcohol because of genetic, but I don't think loxodon function the same way then an actual elephant.

[@M_Alexander]

Obviously a Loxodon is exactly the same as an elephant in every way that is inconvenient for the player

[@monikasernek1177]

@@M_Alexander Yeah, but I wonder if the DM knew the elephants getting easily drunk. But it sounded more like the DM pull bs out of his a*s.

[@ArcCaravan]

​@@M_AlexanderLike how dwarves can't use bows or firbolg's are weakened by their fatness.

[@timalice-2833]

I play an ananasi, werespider, in a werewolf the apocalypse game. Ananasi can break apart into hundreds if not thousands of spiders. IRL spiders get drunk off of caffeine but my character can, thankfully, still drink coffee and eat chocolate.

[@monikasernek1177]

@@ArcCaravan I'm pretty sure being overweight isn't healthy for anyone. (Besides seals and whales)

[@spectrelead]

Jess is one of those "pay attention to ME" types who thinks the game revolves around her and everyone must play her way or her way. Thank the Gods that the trash took itself out, as I'd have uninvited her by the end of that first session Power Word Kill story: That BBEG had a 9th level spell slot against some 7th/8th level players? That's WAY unbalanced, and I've run some epic-level 3.x campaigns

[@Spellweaver5]

Is the final boss of the campaign not supposed to be way stronger than the players?

[@spectrelead]

@@Spellweaver5 Double level might be a bit high.

[@Spellweaver5]

@@spectrelead Not so sure about that. Maybe the players went in badly prepared. Or were supposed to figure something out about the boss' weakness.

[@spectrelead]

@@Spellweaver5 Power Word kill is a 9th-level spell. That's a 17th or higher caster, if going off of spell slot progression, which is all I can go on from the story. There's my reasoning for saying BBEG was approximately twice APL (average party level).

[@Spellweaver5]

​@@spectrelead but it's a boss, not a player character. Why would such a comparison even be relevant? Yes, it is a strong boss. A very strong boss. No doubt there. But perhaps, there was a point to it being that strong. Perhaps the party was not supposed to fight it directly. Perhaps they should've used some trick to weaken it, or should've gotten stronger themselves.

[@nfsfreakism]

Premature Character Ending story: I get the sense that talking may not necessarily solve it. If he attempts risky behavior bc he's not taking his character srsly, end him unceremoniously and move on like nothing happened provided ypu ask "are you sure?" beforehand. Its not fair to you, the DM, to have to put up with your problen player's shenanigans. I would say only do this after letting your problem player know that silly, risky, almost suicidal characters arent appreciated for your campaign

[@fred_derf]

For the 4th OP: When you talk to your friend/player make sure you explain that his not talking the game seriously and not being in characters ruins the fun for you and that you're not interested in DM'ing if he's going to continue as he has. Make sure the rest of the group knows about this and if he doesn't change, stop DMing. Hopefully the peer pressure will get him to take an interest in his character or get him to quit. Either way you win. The only other suggestion I can give is to setup (at the beginning) a reward system for being "in character". Have each player make a list of, say six to eight, bullet points that they will get rewarded for role playing (of course you should vet the lists). e.g. a character who loves good whiskey and will get a character-point for each time they order a whiskey worth more than 2 gp (one point per tavern). Or a character who has difficulty talking to women getting a character-point for stumbling and mumbling when talking to the bar maid or shop assistant. Hopefully that will make him (and the other players) think about their characters and their character's motivations and role play them more. Note: There is the danger that your friend will get upset at the others getting rewards they're not getting -- even though it's on them for not role playing.

[@Wrathura]

The way I get my players invested is by slow burn. I build up their characters through side quests and somewhat sandbox sessions until the plot slowly unfolds. Once they get enough to grab the plot, they have had a mini arc worth of character building. Thus they are heavily invested in their characters for the bigger plot.

[@iank472]

The BBEG story definitely had someone in it with serious skill issues. It wasn't any of the players though......

[@kevinsullivan3448]

Re: the 3rd story. When I was stationed at Ft Campbell, I was in a Champions game that had been running for about 18months. I enjoyed playing in the game and the GM and I had even gone to GenCon'89 together and I had 'translated' a number of villains fro Villains & Vigilantes into Champions on the long drive to and from GenCon. In January of 1990 I had a little SNAFU and was restricted to barracks for 4 weeks so I missed a months worth of games. When I came back the party of 8 superheroes (including my direct supervisor in the Army) was gearing up to assault one of the worlds BBEGs. Before the battle started I was told by one of the pother players that we were all going to be captured so that several of the players could have 'radiation accidents' and redesign their character's powers. Well my character didn't need any such nonsense so I chose for my character to just leave the area, but the GM refused to let my character leave. I stated in front of everyone that my character didn't need a 'radiation accident' so I wasn't going to participate. The GM then demanded a copy of my character sheet, which I politely declined to provide. The GM became very angry and so I picked up my books, dice, and whatnot and left. When I asked my supervisor about the GM wanting a copy of my character sheet and he told me that the GM was going to make a clone of my character that we would have to fight against. That was ridiculous, since my character's powers were granted by 'space aliens' and if he clone4d my character all he would get would be a normal human, since the powers are not innate. Well, that was the last time I played in that group and with a number of those players, since not long after this Desert Shield started up and all the players except myself deployed to Arabia to await Desert Storm. I was separated from the Army at thew end of February and had chosen not to reenlist. At least none of my friends died while I sat at home and agonized over their safety.

[@Spellweaver5]

Today I learned that "inhabitable" can mean both "habitable" and "uninhabitable". What an absolute mess of a word.

[@Yoxiv]

Actually, it's habitable and inhabitable that can mean the same. Uninhabitable has just the one meaning. But yea, it's strange that the former two mean exact same thing with only a slight difference in that one of the words has some extra letters.

[@Spellweaver5]

@@Yoxiv inhabitable can, in fact, mean "uninhabitable", and that's the way it was used in the post. Look it up on the wiktionary.

[@Yoxiv]

@@Spellweaver5 I looked, and nothing showed inhabitable and uninhabitable as being the same

[@Spellweaver5]

@@Yoxiv >Etymology 1 inhabit +‎ -able. Adjective inhabitable (comparative more inhabitable, superlative most inhabitable) Fit to live in; habitable. >Etymology 2 From Middle French inhabitable, from Latin inhabitabilis (“uninhabitable”). Adjective inhabitable (comparative more inhabitable, superlative most inhabitable) (obsolete) Not habitable; not suitable to be inhabited. Why do I have to copy-paste the wiktionary page here, man? Surely you could open it yourself.

[@Yoxiv]

@@Spellweaver5 Because nothing comes up when asking if the words once meant the same, and it isn't like wikionary is the one true source above all others. It even says "obsolete", meaning that the words DON'T mean the same thing anymore.

[@TheNeonLynx]

I have DM'd for a group where our elf druid decided to have 5 large glasses of Cider and nothing else for breakfast. I also had him roll con and he rolled horribly but it was purely for roleplay. If there had been combat in the near future the worst thing I would have done is have him roll his first attack with disadvantage until he snaps out of his drunken stupor.

[@AvatAR42420]

For the character after character story, I agree with talking to him, and if he does not change his behavior, you can make it so if his character dies, he just can't make another one and rejoin. Not being able to play for a week or two should be punishment enough.

[@HexPaladin1233]

Whenever my players want to get drunk it usually results in just being given the poisoned condition. But it takes a big failed con save to get there.

[@RiveroftheWither]

My dm just has us roll con and if we fail we get disadvantage on everything and actually have to roleplay being really drunk (like trying to dance on a table or flirting with a coat rack) until we sleep it off. He has never and will never ruin the fun drunken antics with combat. Also just to clarify the disadvantage is just for the fun of passing and failing at the drunk shenanigans, like passing at the table dance and getting a crowd cheering you one or failing at flirting with the coat rack and it falls over while you panic and tell people you found him like that and didn't do anything.

[@M_Alexander]

That's pretty reasonable. And doesn't halve your speed like exhaustion

[@mrosskne]

why give it a mechanical effect? just encourage them to act out their characters being drunk.

[@HexPaladin1233]

@mrosskne because they like having the mechanical effect for their actions and aren't a role-play-heavy group. This is fine, if some groups like to just role-play being drunk all for it, my group just works a bit differently.

[@mrosskne]

@@HexPaladin1233 Really? The player liked having three levels of exhaustion?

[@7thsealord888]

Story #1 - It was NEVER going to work with Jess, she was all about finding anything possible to be offended about. Story #2 - Sounds like a fun bunch. Perhaps the DM's exhaustion thing went too far, but I note that the Party still won that fight regardless. Another talk with the DM about the Player's concerns seems advisable. Story #3 - So we basically had a bunch of DMs competing to see how many Characters could be killed off that session? I would have just walked, and been loud about it. Story #4 - He needs to be asked, WHY is he playing? Seriously. Story #5 _ I don't blame him one bit for walking, I'd probably have done similar. A proper heads up from the DM was in order beforehand - if you WANT a game like this, that's your decision, but make sure everyone else is on the same page. Story $6 - Full agreement. I do feel like self-centred video-game mentalities lie at the core of a lot of horror stories.

[@randallgpreston]

I've started a game where my character was in jail. He was arrested for murdering someone. I got the idea from the dirty dozen. My character git into a barfight and killed someone with one punch. I was a really nice character and felt very guilty for the killing.

[@LucyBean42]

Character after Character: I have one of those friends who always played chaotic idiots who would die over and over. They don't care, you can't make them care, and you really need to rip the band aid off and give him the boot. He's making YOUR game un-fun, and I guarantee the other players are sick of him too.

[@kevinsullivan3448]

It sounds like the DM didn't sit down and explain his reasoning BEFORE play so that the OP would know the DM was going to apply ridiculous rulings for doing what a drunken master does.

[@Strawberrykoal]

8:26 elephants actually get drunk quite easily. It only takes like 10 fermented fruit for them to be off their a** drunk.

[@schwarzerritter5724]

The 3 levels of exhaustion for drinking reminds me of a game where we nearly had a TPK from drinking stronger wine in a tavern. And no, the tavernkeeper was not evil and deliberately poisoning us.

[@StateBlaze1989]

That third story sounds like these DMs were set out to kill off their players. Even if they were all groups of 6, I don't think a caster of at least character level 17 is an appropriate challenge, what with being able to just instantly delete a third of this party of level 8s.

[@mrosskne]

so everything that exists in the universe magically matches the level of the players at all times? how dull

[@Theguyimreplyingto]

@@mrosskne when you grow up you’ll probably realize that that’s simply how dnd works, characters should be facing challenges that they can overcome. It’s not fun otherwise

[@mrosskne]

So when the characters are level 3, there are no adult dragons anywhere in the world? Moron.

[@Svartalf14]

Man, in some game, a drunken specialist (drunken brute barbarian or drunken marster monk) actually gets BONUSES for imbibing.... a contrary attitude is just absurd

[@joandarogue5729]

The first story is very clearly biased. Ofc we can't know what was really said and if Jess was really overreacting, but it is really unusual that just one character gets a special intro. On top of that the character sounds imbalanced for a first level. A backstory that makes one player distrust another can be done well, but it should be discussed with the other players first. It also doesn't make well for party cohesion and inclusion when you refuse to engage with half your party for an undetermined amount of time. It definitely seems like Jess is overreacting a bit and focusing on the wrong issues such as having a high AC and the reasoning for why he joined the war, but it's not fun for anyone when a player just straight up ignores you the entire game.

[@Kavewolf1989]

The power word kill story is a reminder for me that a lot of these people writing these experiences are young people that take some of this stuff way to personally. "I had a good year of gaming, and the final boss of the year wiped half the players and I was one of them ....year of experiences ruined." Is a bit dramatic lol

[@hellkitelord8319]

I NEVER use power word kill on players. I will use them on a NPC, but not PC. There are a few others I dont use as it's just not fun for the player or DM. Edit: I meant it's not fun for me as a DM.

[@mrosskne]

then why is it in the game?

[@Slashthekitsune]

I had a boss use an insta-kill on one of my teammates in an encounter recently, thing is, one of us had been given a temporary bonus that allowed them to teleport ala Misty Step as a bonus action for the remainder of the encounter and had a Revivify scroll, so it was heavily mitigated. It can be used in a way that works for everyone. (Also remember PW: Kill fails altogether if the target has over 100 HP remaining for ANY reason, even if it's due to being boosted over 100 by Aid or other temporary HP effects)

[@hellkitelord8319]

@mrosskne For the DMs that want to use it just because I don't think something is fun doesn't mean others won't.

[@mrosskne]

@@hellkitelord8319 You said "it's not fun for the player or DM." Not "it's not fun for me."

[@hellkitelord8319]

@Slashthekitsune that sounds like a good way to do it. I've just been in situations where, due to PWK or other spells like banishment, I was out of an entire session. It was not fun for me, and I don't want to inflict that onto others.

[@WastelanderSky]

24:25 The title: "I used to be a really shitty player" What I heard: "I used to be an adventurer like you, then I took an arrow in the knee"

[@Juju2927]

3rd Story : Power Word K AND Counterspell from the GM ?? That's such a dick move.

[@mrosskne]

Why are those spells in the game if they're not supposed to be used?

[@Slashthekitsune]

@@mrosskne Level 8 party. A single level 9 spell is an over the top encounter for them at that point. PW: Kill and Counterspell have their uses, but that's way too early. Edit: Oh my god and he used Twinned Spell to get two targets out of it, so he was using around half his sorcery points on turn 1. Yeah, no that's not something that can be argued as balanced.

[@GarkKahn]

Last story reminds me a lot about myself at the beggining, if not for the horror stories i would've never heard about stuff like metagaming, larp and other things It reminds me of those moments when i played moba and everyone talks in codes expecting every player to know what that means, like "use TP" or "go TK" or some random shit like that, sorry for not playing with my encyclopedia besides me... I think when someone is new doesn't know absolutely everything since day 1

[@Isaygoodday5]

2nd last OP is definitely being way too judgey over the other players just being into different things in their fantasy

[@ArcCaravan]

The problem with being openly graphic with crime when everyone present isn't into it.

[@scorch2155]

​@@ArcCaravan more a problem woth the GM not running a session zero to make sure everyone was okay with it. That's the only real failure here.

[@nyxxthewry]

I'd probably tell OP that he needs to stop believing that his desires will change what the other player finds to be enjoyable. I'd suggest that they talk to the player to confirm what interests the player in the game, examine if that aligns with the vibe of the game OP is trying to run, and be prepared to say goodbye if it's not a good fit. You can enjoy things differently without having it be a problem, but don't force yourself to collaborate with someone who doesn't want to play the same game as you.

[@GarkKahn]

To this day i still won't budge on the "it's what my character would do" but i told players before that it's their job to keep my character from stopping them, like if you're gonna steal something and my character is lawful good don't let it know until it's too late to do something and then it'll go "oh if i knew i would've stopped you blah blah blah" Me as player doesn't have a problem, but the player isn't the character

[@dracawyn]

The exhaustion story. If a character is drunk, that should be the poisoned condition. If he nat 1ed his con save and you, as the dm, believe that means they're super drunk on the verge of blackout or passing out, then MAYBE I can see giving a point of exhaustion in addition. But this is ridiculously punishing

[@CDblade]

17:45 could have try the game called Dungeon Crawl Classics, character death is common. It's also a very fun game though.

[@zerothehero6100]

Power Word Kill isn't overpowered when used by players, who only know how much HP an enemy has left if they're metagaming or the DM gives them hints. In the hands of the DM though, who not only knows exactly how much HP everyone has but controls how much damage they take to begin with? It's disgustingly cheap. The writer of that story got screwed.

[@Mikito456]

I usually don't weigh in, but I will on the Powerword Kill story. That is a shitty way to end such a long campaign and a very overpowered boss, but it sounds like it was intentionally advertised as some sort of ultimate raid boss that was fighting a literal army of players by itself. As crappy as it is, I wouldn't have taken it so personally, in a battle with so many players versus a single boss you have to expect that there are going to be some cheap shots. I wouldn't have been happy if my fighter was killed in such a fashion, but it shouldn't ruin all the fun that led to the moment. The character still achieved a lot during that year, and their death should at least serve a sacrifice to be added to the memorial alongside all the other valiant heroes who were slain in an epic war against such a Godlike entity. At the very least, it sounds memorable lol.

[@Laughingyeen-00]

Dnd is a tough game. Sadly my close friend wanting only experienced players threw me off for wanting to learn it. Being slow doesn't help.

[@ErdriedDeirdre]

Oh dear. 😒 This was a case of misinterpreting a character's ability, they took the Drunken too literally!😟 The Drunken in Drunken Master means the style of your fighting moves are unpredictable like a drunk person's movements, not that you can go on a bender at the local tavern!😂 But he's right in that his character being larger would make him less likely to get too drunk to fight.

[@kainslegacy78618]

Sounds like the player in the fourth story has more of an obsession with edgy chaotic stupid PCs instead of actually evil as f%$k (like they say). They don't seem to enjoy the game the way OP does. Maybe a table where chaos is the key theme would suit them better...

[@fred_derf]

re: The Drunken Master. The DM (at worst) should have all the characters roll a Con save after x number of drinks and if they fail lose ONE level of exhaustion. Then another roll after Y more drinks for another level, etc. This single, unannounced Con save for three levels of exhaustion is just bull-s***.

[@mrosskne]

inebriation doesn't need mechanics.

[@fred_derf]

@@mrosskne, writes _"inebriation doesn't need mechanics"_ I agree, note I said "at worst".

[@mrosskne]

No, not at worst. Not at all. Don't argue.

[@fred_derf]

@@mrosskne, writes _"No, not at worst. Not at all"_ I agree. But it's not my game and if the DM wants to add "intoxication" rolls into the game that's up to them.

[@mrosskne]

No.

[@Blindy_Sama]

The story about the people playing criminals in all honesty there's nothing wrong with playing a criminal if you so choose but absolutely this is why sesson zeros are a thing... I played a character on a one shot one time that was falsely accused of being a criminal r word variety I will reiterate this again they were falsely accused and this is way before shield hero whatever a thing as a matter of fact this might have been version 3.5 or something like that... I can also totally understand someone playing as a murderer if they committed the murder for a reason that they felt was just... As an example of someone who did something wrong with their family so on and so forth.

[@GM-lx7ji]

A problem player acusing another player of raising red flags? Projection at it’s finest.

[@Yuutsu6]

We must protecc Gob the Goblin

[@Kmonroe3]

I have a racist elf against drow (no drow pcs) and part of the campaign is meeting good aligned drow and him growing through his racism

[@JacobL228]

DM 2 had no intention of making a "memorable last fight." They just wanted to "win D&D" with bullshit "tactics." Don't try to cover for the problem DM. Also, you tell people to "just talk it out" way too often, and about stories where they either already tried that, or it obviously wouldn't work. Be more critical of bad people.

[@mrosskne]

It always works, and none of the people in any of these stories have ever tried it.

[@DrengrRekkr]

7:33 fun fact: elephant's get drunk very easily

[@mrosskne]

elephants. not elephant's.

[@DrengrRekkr]

@@mrosskne holy shit ! did you see that ?

[@mrosskne]

Accept the criticism and improve your grasp of the English language.

[@DrengrRekkr]

@@mrosskne man, I guess I was the only one who saw that

[@mrosskne]

Stop.

[@ShiKageMaru]

I assume they meant the world was UNinhabitable and cursed. Much like the brain of the insulting tiefling. Absolutely uninhabited by thoughts. Second story, the DM doesn't know what exhaustion is. You don't get 3 levels of exhaustion for DAYS being awake. Very anti player The story with the wizard bbeg just sounds terrible. They didn't seem to give a shit how many people quit, huh?

[@theofficerfactory2625]

INTRO: Hello Alice and Luna. STORY 1: Feminazi alert! Snowflake alert! "How dare you be different and not a homogenous blob!" STORY 2: Da heck, DM!? That's just so stupid. STORY 3: Interesting premise but dang, what the heck, DM. STORY 4: Sounds like a talk is in order with this oddball. STORY 5: Good choice, OP. WTH!?!? SESSION ZERO, PEOPLE!! USE IT!!! STORY 6: What a username. How could a player confuse tabletop to that of a video game always baffle me. At the least OP learned.

[@Sikreb]

the first story reminds me of another i heard where someone was dumped because he rolled poorly even thought they have no control over what the dice rolls.

[@ArcCaravan]

I remember that one, the artificer whose failed bridge triggered his girlfriend into starting a fight about that player apparently "failing when it's important".

[@mrosskne]

lmao based, just roll better

[@vortega472]

Yep, kitties takes away what ails you.

[@dogwalker3603]

Twin spell a cleric and paladin spell? 💀

[@cassielchrist]

Some people suck.

[@Jean-Luc_Renard]

RE: Incel Accusation For OP's veteran halt-orc to automatically trust Problem's teifling would be completely out of character. I'd argue it's metagaming. OP knows the party needs to build trust, but their character doesn't. If building a complex and interesting character is incel behavior, then I guess I want to be an incel. Please don't take that out of context.

[@SystemTrinity]

How could it possibly be a " dick move " to say that a player who wants to be known for having "non-conned" someone previously, belongs on a list? That's scary and disturbing stuff.

[@simondurso6743]

personally, I think it's better to use point buy instead of rolling for stats

[@dwaynejackson551]

And there is nothing wrong with that.

[@schwarzerritter5724]

Literally the first character I ever played was complete dead weight, because I rolled to low.

[@mrosskne]

prowlers and paragons doesn't even have an option for rolling, and it's a better system in every way

[@dwaynejackson551]

@@mrosskne Then go play it. Especially if all you're here to do is troll posts.

[@mrosskne]

No. You will be made to have good taste.

[@nocount7517]

I've noticed a trend with those who throw around istaphobe terms a lot usually have no idea what they mean. Notable examples include "fascist".

[@TheRav3Crew]

Ah yes kitties accepted

[@unicornactual3432]

You gotta wonder sometimes. I like these stories but they're incredibly one sided. Like a court case where only one party gets to plead their case.

[@Shadozcreeping]

what hel? that first story. sigh i'm a queer paraphile and a leftist radical in real life. if i design a character who is transphobic, i'll roleplay someone i would not want to meet let alone be in real life, roleplay is not necessarily wish fulfillment. people play characters they love, hate, or are indifferent about. becoming someone else can be fun or interesting for many reasons, not just because it's some ideal self we want to be

[@tod557]

At this point anybody that uses a red flag is ironically a red flag the irony that they've overused it so much

[@Random_Chiroptera]

Modern attitudes regarding bigotry in storytelling is making me inclined to require newbie D&D players read or listen to the first 6 books of Legend of Drizzt novels, and hear what they thought of it. This would reliably weed out people unfit for D&D, IMO.

[@Random_Chiroptera]

Now, some might ask, "Why these six books?" Understand, I'm not looking for a critique of the writing or author, but of impressions taken from the story. Racism is abundant in the lore of D&D, but what many new players, Millennial and younger, tend not to understand, that within that fictional world, many of the stereotypes aren't only true and well-deserved, but the bigotries are justified. This introduction to these truths of the lore is accomplished through an in depth introduction to Drow society and culture. There really is no human equivalent in fantasy or IRL. However, these books also demonstrate how a morally good character, born of legitimately evil origins, little by little proves to untrusting people, that he is not like what they expect. This is a missed opportunity for the Tiefling player that stormed out. A very cool character development arc could have been Tiefling wins Paladin's respect and trust, and over time they both get over their mutual fear or disgust ofvthe other, becoming close friends. I've actually seen a story arc like this before in which Human Paladin and Tiefling Rogue characters get married, and adventure together as a couple.

[@KHFMcAwesome]

In regards to the first story: I don’t think there’s necessarily anything wrong with playing a character who has reservations about certain races, as long as the rest of the table is comfortable with it and it’s clear that it is all roleplay and not any sort of excuse to express any real racial prejudice. It can make for interesting storytelling and can be a flaw for a character to overcome. For example I played a half-elf once and another player played a dwarf who had a prejudice against elves. As the story went on our characters grew to understand each other more and his character actually ended up admitting he was wrong about elves. Had a nice Legolas and Gimli like relationship by the end and it made for some of the best parts of the story.

[@ArcCaravan]

In this case, it was just someone who just was cautious around tieflings after fighting a demon war before tieflings existed. Far cry from problem players using it as an excuse to harass party members.

[@GFXCXZ]

No. Not every negative character trait is a flaw to overcome or needed to approved and stamped for social virtue. That's twitter politics mindset. Any good story has people go through a journey, not every journey is about wiping out flaws, especially not preferential flaws or issues. If a character is racist, it's fine so long as they don't actively be annoying or disrupt the game with it. That's it. Anything else is just social bullying for the purpose of showing what a good little boy you are and that's it. Sometimes watching someone with complex, bad or good or mixed traits go through a trek in life is fun. It's what makes stories and role playing fun, this other stuff you proposed is just some weird form of role playing purification I expect to see in a religion set up....in this case it's only for world view reinforcement and social posturing.

[@mrosskne]

how could "I don't like elves" be an expression of real racism? how many elves do you know in real life? also, what if the character is right? some races could really be objectively evil.

[@Phoenixoflife56]

27:20 I was taught a important lesson about being a author that applies to dnd there’s a lot of information that you know that your character won’t so you need to keep what you know and what your character knows separate. I was also taught that to consider what motivates my character such as goals or the reason for traveling with the party. The latter is useful for maintaining a cohesive party that has party friction. For example I played a elf druid with a prejudice against non druid magic users due to childhood trauma and she wanted revenge against mages who wronged her. She was in a party that wasn’t exactly compatible with as I played her so I would regularly as myself “why would she stay with the party?” My response being that she needed them to get her revenge and they were her best option and had a chance to still be of assistance. This altered her personality to where she’d tolerate the members she despises so she can reluctantly work with the party.

[@CooperAATE]

1st for Doge!

[@clericofchaos1]

I think the op in the criminal story was just being a snowflake. Yes, a session 0 could have helped avoid that outburst, but i've played evil characters before and evil characters have to do evil things. I've even played psychopaths and serial killers before. Then you've got things like historical accuracy to think about. yes, it's a fantasy game, but if you have vikings in your game and they are called vikings, sail like vikings, and fight like vikings then you shouldn't complain when they try to rape, plunder, and murder innocents like vikings. That's just part of the job.

[@ArcCaravan]

It's one thing to play an evil character, it's another to revel in graphically describing murder and SA just for personal amusement. Curious what's worse: someone complaining about unexpected graphic sadism or someone whining about people not liking their graphic descriptions?

[@clericofchaos1]

@@ArcCaravan they never said anything graphic though. They were in a prison and just listing their rap sheets.

[@ArcCaravan]

@@clericofchaos1 The story explicitly mentions graphic descriptions, it wasn't just "here's what we're in for".

[@clericofchaos1]

@@ArcCaravan I had to go back and listen just to make sure and i was right, there's nothing graphic in there. Just a list of why they're in prison. The OP might CLAIM it's graphic, but nothing in there sounded like it to me...again, op is a obviously just a snowflake.

[@clericofchaos1]

@@ArcCaravan I didn't hear anything graphic in there. just reasons why they were in jail.

[@kainslegacy78618]

Also, playing a Tiefling and expecting to not be hated is stupid. Tieflings are defined by how "racist" most people are against them.

[@wolfherojohnson2766]

Not always. Most campaigns don’t bat a second eye at them.

[@nickerson1971]

@@wolfherojohnson2766 Did the research or is this a personal opinion stated as fact?

[@dwaynejackson551]

​@nickerson1971 I've done some numbers and the numbers come from horror stories, glory stories, and just plain funny stories. Basically it is closer to 64% of games where tieflings slapped because of race. But the degrees vary too widely to really get a sense of if it's bad or not.

[@streptococo4735]

​@@wolfherojohnson2766 Tieflings are supposed to be childs from demons. 95% of the time people aren't going to think that is a good sign.

[@littlegiantj8761]

Almost like they're a metaphor or something...

[@leovicctanteo4537]

My very first campaign, i got my PC drunk at the start of the session and is drunk all throughout that first session (which includes a lot of introduction and an inciting incident battle.) Never had my PC drink anything that can fail on con saves ever again xD (and then my pseudo intellectual friend player started critiquing my character as "just a drunk" and "too shallow" as i dint know how to RP drunk pc AND a proper introduction back then 😂 Annoying)

[@Luxord5294]

1st story: Ah yes the call of the terminally online, Main Character Syndrome having, spoiled keyboard warrior; if anyone else is getting any kind of focus over them they must be (insert buzz word here). Question: does anyone actually care if you get called one of these buzzwords anymore from some rando on the internet or on the street?

[@ArcCaravan]

Maybe false accusations on the street. Though I doubt incel would matter in that regard, compared to accusations of bigotry.

[@lukaarsovski2995]

Honesty what is it woth how women grav8tate to tieflings, I swear, 8 out of 10 times it's a tiefling, the other 2 times, it's a half elf

[@dracone4370]

Assuming Doge's kitties are Tabaxi, or similar race/species, what sort of adventuring character archetype do you think they would be.

[@M_Alexander]

I figure cats tend to be ninjas, thieves, or bards

[@mrosskne]

​@@M_Alexander wow pretty racist

[@M_Alexander]

@@mrosskne I'm not racist I have cat friends

[@mrosskne]

@@M_Alexander lol

[@beauwalker9820]

"Incel" has lost all meaning to me, and I can't take anyone seriously who uses that term unironically. For one thing, it lost it's meaning once people online started calling married men (with kids) that, and the term is honestly powerless against say religious people or asexual people.

[@wacawaka1802]

Oh, I’m early.

[@Doodle1776]

I saw nothing wrong with the massive encounter being "overpowered." The only issue was it wasn't projected properly that it would be. Or potential information provided that it could be wasn't made available for the players to look into. Now, if the GM gave options for the players to look into it and they charged forward, ignoring the investigation phase, then what could the GM do? There should always be time to research a location and potential foe. The issue is when players outright expect that everything needs to be "balanced" to be able to defeat it, like a video game, then they skip the research part and just dive right into it. It is okay to ignore the illusion of balance and just do whatever and it's how I run everything. The expectation needs to then be explained to the players that the world doesn't revolve around their PCs levels or abilities and just jumping blindly into everything won't turn out well for them.

[@WhirlyBeepBoops]

I guess having a failstate like that is okay, but only if the DM clearly shows that there is a way to succeed - and lets the party figure that way out before it's too late. The big issue here is that the DM completely shut down their attempts to research.

[@Doodle1776]

@@WhirlyBeepBoops if the party wants to try that is fine. I won't stop them but simply project the danger involved. I won't tell them that they cannot succeed because my groups have defeated creatures well above their abilities through clever play. It's also why "balance" is a farce.

[@mrosskne]

you shouldn't telegraph. if the players want to discover information about an enemy, they are free to take actions in the game world in service of that goal.

[@Jonathan-ic9ef]

_Hears DnD Doge pronounce "Mario" with a long A._ _Unsubs_

[@drgonserpent]

For the second drunk story elephants are known for having a poor alcohol tolerance and it's pretty common do you drink you get drunk

[@ArcCaravan]

As someone else said, fictional races based on animals have all the inconveniences of them. If drinking creates three levels if exhaustion, never drink ever.

[@mrosskne]

that's nice. what does it have to do with loxodon? they're not elephants.

[@ArcCaravan]

@@awayaccathrowaw9601 I thought that was a hypothetical case that'd justify reasonable consequences than something that actually happened.

[@awayaccathrowaw9601]

@@ArcCaravan to be honest i re-read it and now i'm just confused.

[@Damalon01]

The way the girl in the first story used the term 'Incel' is a perfect example of why the English language should not be corrupted to mean anything other than it does mean. 'Incel' is short for Involuntary Celibate, not 'random arsehole' or whatever it has been corrupted to mean!

[@mrosskne]

"key hitters" lmao. battlefield control wins fights. not damage.

[@janinecat1865]

Why does nobody know that 'incel' means 'virgin through no fault of your own'

[@CooperAATE]

Buzz words quickly lose meaning

[@ArcCaravan]

It got tainted by people using their involuntary celibacy as an excuse to make demands.

[@claytonjacobs4098]

Words meaning can change over time. Incel now means "Whiney asshat that blames women for everything crappy about themselves that makes them undatable."

[@vampire9545]

You realize most of DND is murder right? 😆

[@ArcCaravan]

Give or take self-defense.

[@mrosskne]

yeah, it's a pretty bad system

[@mojpiesto]

In regards to second story, the player is 100% in the wrong. They were not punished arbitrarily, but definitely too severly. But it sounds like he wanted a consequence free scene just because 'it's just roleplay' which imo is not a valid rebuttal. Still, the dm went WAY too hard with 3 freaking exhaustion levels. Like wtf my man

[@ArcCaravan]

So don't roleplay because DM can arbitrarily punish you? If the consequence was reasonable, than the player would be wrong. But not wanting 3 levels of exhaustion before a fight just for drinking doesn't make the player 100% wrong.

[@mojpiesto]

​@@ArcCaravani agree the punishment was overly severe, if I was dming that scene I would probably just give them disadvantage on attacks or small penalty to AC if anything at all. But the way the player talks about the scenario sounds like they think there should be absolutely no consequences because they arbitrarily assigned it a label of 'just light rp' and I think the gm should have the ability to create consequences even for small decisions. They call it being punished for roleplay, but from my perspective it was more of a case where the results of action, while 100% validly applied, where ridiculously overblown. Does that make sense?

[@ArcCaravan]

@@mojpiesto My main issue was saying the player was 100% wrong in this scenario. While I can understand the idea of consequences, I also believe that it can discourage roleplay by making potentially anything hinder the player. Plus only one player was punished for drinking when everyone was drinking (granted the paladin was robbed of drinks). There's a difference between reasonable consequences and a cheap excuse to hinder players.

[@JKevinCarrier]

Incel Accusation - Jess way over-reacted, but on the other hand, I think it was a bad idea for OP to create a character who was prejudiced against Tieflings, when half the party were Tieflings. Especially if they didn't discuss it with them ahead of time. If the OP just out of the blue started acting like a dick to the two women in the group, I can see where it would be REAL easy to misinterpret their intentions. If you're going to target someone else's character with your RP, it's important to get their consent. If they're not into whatever scenario you're trying to spin, leave them out of it. Character After Character - By all means, try talking to the player. If you're good friends, they might listen and straighten up. However, in my experience, this kind of attitude is not fixable. Players like this think that taking the game seriously is "cringe" and "boring", and can only get enjoyment from ruining the game for the people who DO take it seriously. If they won't get into the spirit of things, and you don't want to boot them, simply disallow their shenanigans. "I do [ ridiculous thing ]!" "No, that doesn't happen. Try again." (To really drive the point home, be sure to heap praise on the other players when their characters do things that are sensible and help move the story along). If the Problem Player is not allowed to steal the spotlight and derail the game, they will eventually get bored and quit.

[@ArcCaravan]

The prejudice against Tieflings seemed limited to not wanting to interact with them unless necessary. Considering all the times people use prejudice as an excuse to openly harass people, it's hard to treat OP as equally bad just because racism is a buzzword.

[@JKevinCarrier]

@@ArcCaravan Didn't mean to imply that the OP was equally at fault -- just that deciding to shun half the party (which also happened to be the two women in the group) was maybe not the smartest RP choice ever made.

[@ArcCaravan]

@@JKevinCarrier Same could be said of any party having racist characters of any form. Only one player had a problem with it, and it seemed more about OP having a character whose connection to in-game lore got him some extra scenes.

[@mrosskne]

yeah you wouldn't want any conflict, games are best when they're boring.

[@Wraithspartan]

​@@JKevinCarrierReally? This sort of arc is a fairly common trope. As he gets to know the teiflings, he becomes more comfortable around them, even becoming friends most likely. The fact that only one of the players "directly affected" had issues indicated that efforts were made to differentiate between character and player. This is further evidenced by the "incel fantasy" line. Clearly, Jess was acting like a member of the TikTok Brigade, rather than anything substantive done by OP.

[@MrRevilnemesis]

I don't know if i would call those buzz words since those are still very big issues in borh TTRPG and real life and getting worse in some cases.

[@littlegiantj8761]

They're baseless accusations to incite a specific reaction; buzzword fits

[@ArcCaravan]

It becomes a buzzword when used baselessly.

[@mrosskne]

completely imaginary to the point that people have to fake hate crimes, you mean.

[@MrRevilnemesis]

@@mrosskne Hate crimes against racial minorities, women, homosexuals, and transgender people are a very real thing and have been rising in the past decade. It is very ignorant to think otherwise especially when laws removing women's bodily rights, allowing doctors to refuse to treat gay patients, and also making it harder for trans people to transition have been passed in this decade.

[@MrRevilnemesis]

@@mrosskne Hate crime rates have been on the rise in the past decade, the many cases in TTRPG where people refuse to accept this as shown by how many stories the Doge has that deals with bigotry, and laws that revoke a women's bodily rights, that let doctors refuse to treat gay patients, and don't allow trans people to use transition of use their real name or pronouns. This is far from imaginary.