Crested Gecko Foundation Genetics

[@lm.reptiles]

Please comment below any questions you may have, and don't forget to read the Foundation Genetics guide which will help prep you for the upcoming Morph guide and Interactive Morph Guide, parts 2 and 3.

[@thegeckodon]

Thank you guys for publicizing this discussion! Very informational!

[@MaddieSmith]

Incredible video guys! 🙌

[@suzettemiller9444]

I need to explain something to gecko and reptile sellers, from a business/ sales view, about selling to women customers in person. When men buy these lizards, sometimes it's for a status symbol room decoration for their groupies, for breeding purposes, or for experimental genetics projects. However, when women buy one of these, unless they are a professional breeder, it is often for a pet, just the same as adopting a puppy from the pound. Unless the lizard will run away like a day gecko, or bite like a tokay gecko, sometimes they need to pet it or hold it, to determine if they feel an affectionate or emotional connection (which they usually will unless the lizard is really mean or jumpy), and to determine if it has a suitable temperament to make a good pet for handling often. The reason I am explaining this, is because I went to a reptile show within the last year so excited about adopting a special pet crested gecko for which I had an arboreal tropical vivarium prepared in advance. When I saw a pretty one to which I somewhat felt attached and was thinking of purchasing, I asked to pet it first, and the seller guy looked at me confused and quite annoyed, like I was from the moon. But it would be good to understand the full spectrum of marketing angles of your business to seal the deal.

[@RealPangeaReptile]

Suzette, while we weren't there and we can't say what that vendor was thinking, each vendor has their own restrictions and levels of comfort on when and how strangers handle their animals. We all need to balance the safety of our animals from drops, stress, and the potential transfer of infection or parasites, with serving the public and helping people find the right animal. We're sorry you had a less than ideal experience, but almost assuredly the vendor was making what they thought was the best decision for the health and safety of the gecko. They may have made the wrong call for the right reason, if that makes sense.

[@suzettemiller9444]

@@RealPangeaReptile Sure. My experience above was not at Pangea, but I just wanted to throw this out there, in some general recent location where other breeders might run into this information, in case they were wondering why a customer would ask this.

[@krmexotics9290]

I'm a senior of molecular biology and genetics major but a gecko lover and breeder first and this is absolutely intriguing and amazing!

[@geckos_locos]

I'm glad I finally got around to watching this! These are much needed conversations in our community.

[@RealPangeaReptile]

Knowledge is key! We're glad breeders are sharing openly.

[@cryrolfe]

Thanks so much you guys!! Very informative!

[@RealPangeaReptile]

Our pleasure!

[@dosilecreations6229]

super soft scales are my favorite by far!!

[@lm.reptiles]

Right! They basically quadrupel the number of combos we can make! Have a favorite morph, or color? Make it a Softscale, then a Super Softscale, and you see results in the first generation of animals!

[@rustyshackelford7084]

I bred a few cresties back in the early 2000s. I remember hearing whispers on the forums about having genetic testing done. I haven’t really followed them for about 12 years. It’s so cool to see how much more knowledge there is now!

[@RealPangeaReptile]

There are crazy advancements all the time

[@jenniferfox5586]

This was so good. Right off the bat, the appearance of some of my babies from last year was explained. Tiger father, harlequin broken pin mother. They had tiger stripes coming down from the dorsal like icicles. Now I know it was tiger being partially blocked from going over the dorsum by the pinstripe. Really clear explanations 👍🏻

[@lm.reptiles]

It starts to become much easier the more and more you see offspring and parents. The next release we're working on covers each trait and their interactions with each other, also a interactive morph guide showing the phenotype produced.

[@Familiarspirits]

Thank you do much for all the great information! Are there any breeders who bread mainly for size and body structure before color and patterns?

[@RealPangeaReptile]

At this point, most established breeders are breeding for lots of traits at once. We don't know of anyone breeding just for size.

[@seadragonwitchbitch]

I actually am working slowly on a breeding project just based around size and structure but the first generation of babies from this weird pair is only just now putting babies on the ground and able to breed, they came from a girl I mentored and I cannot wait to see where it's going to go

[@jaykrizzle]

Excellent video!

[@geckologicalfoundationgene4707]

Thanks!

[@filipo5976]

Exactly what I've been waiting for!!!! Amazing!!!

[@FalcoeiroBrasil]

We desperately need a 101 class on the crested geckos genetics. One that even simple than this video. Please!

[@RealPangeaReptile]

If we made one, what concepts would you like covered?

[@FalcoeiroBrasil]

@@RealPangeaReptile the small (yet huge) differences between dominance - codominance - ressessive x dominant - punnet´s table and a react on the Brian´s (Altitude Exotics) video on crested genetics. I know it´s a big demmand but, as said on the your video, we are eager to have basics on genetics in a more comprehensible way. Thanks in advance.

[@nicolesinger3849]

Could one of you explain how to get the really pale "pink" cresties like from fringe morphs? Is it breaking down red over time? Maybe a lavender/red pairing? Red with Lw? I've asked lots of people and no one seems to know.

[@lm.reptiles]

We have a few methods for this. Red base color is a bit complex, as you can see it comes in a very wide range, there are several reasons for this that will be explained and discussed in the upcoming guides.

[@ashleysalvador2082]

I agree you read my mind. They have a couple for sale that have a pinkish reddish purplish tone. I wouldn’t have a clue what to pair it with. I see a lot of beautiful geckos but then can’t find the other one I would pair it with. Also @nicole singer you have to realize it is part of the game too for breeders to hold back their best and sell the ones that only have a partial or incomplete version of this gene. Part of the reason is to limit other breeders having their trademark look. I think they have it trademarked as true pink. I want a pink too but I also loved the high creamy whites.

[@lm.reptiles]

@@ashleysalvador2082 Yes this is basic business and market coming into play. The upcoming guide and genotyping will help us to evaluate pairs better. If you do mange to create or purchase an animal but have no idea what to pair them with, then we live in the hypothetical world. Using genotyping and the community to build the information, we can document which lines work with which and which don't and why. This only enables herpers to be more confident in entering the hobby to aim for a goal, this is why ball pythons and Leopards are so popular. When breeders work together to do collabs they can further document their lines as working well together and track traits. Trying to track the name of every ancestor is just too difficult, especially when a photo is needed, but if a trait name is used, then we know if it is present in the animal we purchase or produce. This is what the rest of the reptile community uses, so now we will be aligning with them to further the crested gecko.

[@jaykrizzle]

I think it is basically a lavender red

[@nikkisfirststep3989]

I look forward to the future red break downs @lilmonsters

[@puctbridge]

You know how many times I have witnessed or been part of the conversation about how it's not "morphs". People start getting the eye twitch and they can't do enough to try to convince you that they are correct and you are incorrect. I have had to put up with this in person & in conversations on Facebook or forums! Folks just absolutely refuse to let go of their old way of thinking

[@lm.reptiles]

We have all struggled against this type of mindset. As Tom said, if there is anything to take away from this, it is that even with 20 years of experience behind each of us we all approach each topic with respect to each other and no ego. We listen and consider all viewpoints, regardless of how "right" we feel we are. We will be sharing a brainstorming session, between morph, trait, and attribute discussions and how we prove and define each topic. Respect your peers and remember that knowledge is constantly evolving and changing.

[@WolfGirlCasey]

this is really fascinating. I'm still a newbie to herp keeping and even newer to breeding, but this gets gears rolling in my head on potential projects to set myself on.

[@Prsleddogs]

Thank you so much this was soooooooooo informative. I've been searching the world for months for content exactly like this. 👍 thank you gentlemen for your dedication.

[@grumpycricket]

Awesome discussion, learned a lot. Shout out to Tom from WSP!

[@geckologicalfoundationgene4707]

Didn't expect to see anyone from work here. Thanks, Jeff!

[@grumpycricket]

@@geckologicalfoundationgene4707 I'm probably the only other gecko nerd at work!😅

[@geckologicalfoundationgene4707]

Hit me up on Instagram @geckological if you ever need a fix. Lol

[@grumpycricket]

@@geckologicalfoundationgene4707 I've been following you on Instagram since we met.👍

[@jessicablanchard5211]

Videos like this are part of the reason I only trust Pangea for my gecko. He's currently snaking on a mix of fig and insects/ apricot.

[@RealPangeaReptile]

Thank you! Sounds delicious

[@andrew-erinparis497]

Very interesting information! I can't wait to hear more! Always a pleasure to see you Matt and Tom! Looking forward to meeting you at some point Anthony!

[@AnthonyVasquezEndZz]

I will be flying out for the next one!

[@xtrithx4389]

Nice too know,I plan on starting to breed crested geckos. Also a freind of mine says he loves your silicone dishes. I plan on getting some soon

[@RidiculousRhacs]

Great video guys!

[@jessicabuynak5077]

Thank you so much for creating this video! This is exactly what I’ve been looking for! I love all the information you guys give and I appreciate you trying to share it with everyone.

[@danielwi2001]

Thats alot of information, thank u guys really much 👏👏

[@dominicgonzalez6470]

Great video! Answers so many questions not only about geckos but other animals

[@RealPangeaReptile]

Glad you enjoyed!

[@codywatkinsmusic1]

We need more of this type of content!

[@RealPangeaReptile]

There will be more to come! Stay tuned!

[@hunterzmom03]

Thank you so much for all the information! I feel so much smarter and ready to make plans for the future of my little addiction!

[@lias1762]

So cool to see this explained in a good way! I’ve seen in my own projects how traits stack and work together. This is going to help my lavender project so much!

[@lm.reptiles]

Wait till we discuss the lavender complex!

[@lias1762]

@@RealPangeaReptile Absolutely will!! Definitely going to be taking notes and absorbing all this like a sponge!

[@lias1762]

@@lm.reptiles I can’t wait!!! It’s my headliner project and I’m always disappointed when people treat it like a dominant or recessive gene

[@isawhobbes]

LOVE THIS VIDEO CANT WAIT FIR MORE!!!

[@RealPangeaReptile]

Thanks! you should check out our other videos in this series! Here is the link to the playlist! kzbin.info/aero/PLmiYf46xVSXylbIFJLeZi3ycY1aJ3hPiS

[@lizzw4216]

Everyday I learn something new about geckos!

[@yanceybull8377]

I know im not the only one who has watched/played this over a dozen times and am still picking up/learning things from 🚫 🐃

[@slmdnkasr]

Awesome video!!! Please keep making these!!

[@mriahsofficial4302]

I have a breeder female that looks almost EXACTLY like the cold fusion gecko shows cat 57:53!

[@Cold_Blooded_Gems_]

Big thank you for this fellas 🤙🏻🧬🇺🇸🧬

[@RealPangeaReptile]

Our pleasure!

[@henrynieto3663]

Love my crested geckos so much

[@Lukia26]

Fantastic information. It’s so exciting to see this conversation really begin/ramp up to this level. I haven’t been active in the crestie community the past few years, so maybe some of your guys’ findings have been discussed for a bit now (although from other comments it doesn't sound like it)! But a lot of this is new information to me, and I’m hyped.

[@LIPPETT4EVER]

Id listen to a 10 hour discussion if you guys posted it

[@GeneralGP114]

Very informative 👏👌 ...."softer than soft as ..." hahaha funny stuff great video guys

[@geckologicalfoundationgene4707]

Thanks! Glad that you found it fun and informative. It was a pleasure to be a part of this.

[@ajaydatta6453]

Love to sweet geckos Long live geckos save their lives

[@goldlinereptiles]

That is true, I have animals that I know what trait they are strong in, so if I place them with a sertain female then I know for 80% what offspring they will throw. After 10 year I have a few that I know what they throw. Which is great so now I’m doing sertain projects cause I know what the outcome will be for the most. But also it’s it’s always interesting to see what other females would do with the males that I already know, so it stays surprising also. I love the complexity of crested geckos but also proud cause I know what sertain of my animals will throw. So I can build on them. ☺️👌🏻

[@AnthonyVasquezEndZz]

Yes, glad to see people begining to notice this. We will be making diagrams of how to isolate and spot traits and a guide discussing how multiple traits interact. If you have questions or ideas please contribute, this is a community resource and we want input as we continue to evolve.

[@LyubomirIvanov16]

Really awesome video guys! I know that my questions are not related on this topic, but those are questions that I receive different opinions on. Have you guys noticed any different for eggs to be kept in a cooler temperature to help develop better crests or just greater structure (as the community calls it)? Specifically for eggs coming from parents with bad structure. Have you noticed if the incubation can influence the coloration or the pattern of the offspring? Have you noticed if sex can be influenced with the incubation as well?

[@lm.reptiles]

We are addressing some of these questions in the upcoming, parts 2 and 3. We will outline structural morphs in this as well. I have my own findings, regarding structure and incubation, and we will be sharing results and experience with this from multiple breeders, to give more complete information and not just a single person's input.

[@LyubomirIvanov16]

@@lm.reptiles thank you very much!

[@DigitalResurrection]

Would you guys consider making an in depth gecko genetic classes? I know people would pay for it!

[@laurenandtheyarn3619]

I'm obviously not here as many years -- but I'm seeing harley with the breaks in the dorsal behaving far more dominant when crossed to pinners.. than pinning over harley... but maybe you are just talking tiger without harley? I would really like to hear your theories on red toned brindles and tigers... both the ones who hatch looking like a normal brindle and the "brown" turns red as they age up... and what I have.. the red toned, nearly patternless phantom looking animals that develop the yellow pattern on top of the red as they age... but this pattern still fires up and down like a normal tiger.. no brown shading. Just red.

[@lm.reptiles]

We actually have had this discussion a few times now and have some evidence for what is responsible for this Phenotype. We're setting up a Facebook group initially to have these discussions and are looking for other platform options right now as well.

[@lm.reptiles]

As for dominance of tigering and Harley and pin, it depends on how stacked they are. Tigering will always exist in the animal, to what degree, depends on the type and its association with other traits. Pinning forces and moves tigering, the stronger tiger is, the more chance it can break pinning or create dashed pin. Harley and orange base animals can easily be confused with strong tigering creating similar phenotypes that have different traits.

[@geckologicalfoundationgene4707]

The reds with that yellow top coat, that shows durring different stages of firing, is something that has shown up in both of our collections. It even coats the tail. I sent an animal to Pangea after seeing the same phenotype in an animal that was posted on their Instagram. We are working together to see where it leads. I have referred to it as "Clean slate", since it looks like it clears the original red base and pattern, leaving a new color in its place. The name came from Mike, over at Dragontown, in a conversation we had years ago.

[@laurenandtheyarn3619]

@@geckologicalfoundationgene4707 mike has seen them on my table but did not say anything at the time... It's a lot of fun things to play with.... Mine all originated from a female from northern gecko who just looked like a mid end red pinner with yellow highlighting, but all five kids I held back from her have a feature...

[@royalroaches4867]

So, stacking....if I understand this correctly....if we continually breed geckos with pinstripes, then we are not going to achieve anything close to a XXX if that's our desire....because the pattern of the XXX is achieved via breeding an animal without the pinstripe trait. (or minimal) I get frustrated seeing a beautiful "morph"....or if you prefer, a beautiful animal with a "collage" of traits....and one of those traits are/is Dalmatian spots. Two questions....is/was the Dalmatian spot trait one of the original "foundation" traits first introduced from the wild, or first seen in the wild, by Allen Repashy and Phillipe ? (? don't know who that is) And second, can we "de-stack" an animal to eliminate a trait we do not want...like Dalmatian spots ?? If so, it would seem to me that de-stacking would be much harder because you would need more of the desirable traits you want to keep in a future breeding pair, (possibly changing the entire look of future offspring) in order to diminish the trait you want to be rid of. Or maybe it is better to start with new animals that either don't have Dal spots and hope they don't show up in any future offspring. Thanks for the vid Matt! Loving my 'Gea kiddos....

[@geckologicalfoundationgene4707]

You are correct about the XXX train of thought. Dalmation spotting is a wild type trait. It can be reduced and eliminated with the right animals and/or selective breeding. It is not an easy task to eliminate it, like most, if not all, wild type traits.

[@lm.reptiles]

Don't forget to check out the guide, we have an example of your question in there and illustrations of different forms of dominant traits. You can also find a wild type dalmatian picture.

[@royalroaches4867]

@@lm.reptiles yes I did....I was a little embarrassed because I read the guide AFTER posting my questions. For example, I seen the photos you show of the animals in the wild wherein some had dal spots....you also mentioned it in your text. Having taken college biology and bred beardies a decade ago, I understood most of what you wrote....meaning other than the occasional "head spin" due to not using the language everyday, I thought you did a great job of explaining. And to Tom using the term "stacking" for me anyways, helps me to visualize the process. It would be great if there was a forum/FB group where the concepts you guys talk about could be discussed with Q n A abilities....for example, I have an interesting pairing going on between a Pangea "Halloween" extreme and a similarly colored (with white) dash pinstripe/extreme wherein I was trying to express the white highlighted pinning more.....After watching this vid and reading the 1st part of the guide...I now realize my male with great coloring but pinning, is really not a very good partner for my Halloween which expresses the "tiger" trait very well but has no pinning. They are throwing visually appealing hatchlings with vibrant coloring, but the tiger is competing against the pinstripe....further making me appreciate the beauty of Barb Gebert's stunning tri colors over at Creepy Exotics. I'm excited to learn more about structure, and having met (and purchased a nice ink spot male) from Tom at a Tinley show who had some really large animals, I'm wondering if overall size can be bred into crested geckos. Can you imagine beautiful cresties the size of Leachies.....lol Lastly, Matt....I've got a stunning yellow extreme "solid back" female from you guys.....I need some guidance on what to pair her up with so as not to lose that clean dorsal....me thinking my Lilly male might be the answer but I keep an eye on your kiddos...can't wait to see you guys at a show again....maybe in June at the NARBC. Thank you all for your efforts! Mike

[@lm.reptiles]

@@royalroaches4867 Hey glad the guide cleared up further details. I tried to make it complete, and not just supply a definition, but help to explain what and where the term originates. Providing readers with a more complete understanding. We already have a Facebook group, it is not live yet as parts 2 and 3 give us tools to facilitate the discussion of traits as they develop. Without those tools we can get into some circular arguments, where we use different terms, but the same definition to describe something. This is an exercise Tom and I went through for a good 6 months, and during this process we learned the most important things we needed to supply the community before we could start conversations.

[@teganjones8161]

i could definitely use some help in understanding this further - super dal mother and harlequin pinstripe father have produced : pinstripe, brindle, harlequin all with portholes and/or dal spots. any ideas on what genes the parents carry?

[@ajaydatta6453]

They are my sweet heart lovely geckos

[@Cold_Blooded_Gems_]

Hey talking about all the years of selective breeding over the years , we see what we can make , now talking about reverse breeding , or breeding back to “natural” style…. I have a friend who had big plans let’s say lol , he had a collection of about 8 geckos all different 🧬’s he just let they all live together no pairing of any sort …… after 2 generations alllll the baby ls are that “wild “ type patterning …. It interesting how long it takes to get what we want , yet how fast nature will take right back over 🤙🏻 these videos should be mandatory to any breeder ! Big thanks !

[@Chavez510]

Awesome interview very interested and informative but bald headed dude be more confident homie you know your stuff don’t get bully I’m also a gecko Breeder crested geckos and gargoyle geckos right now

[@crestedcresties]

Bald headed dude is da Boss!

[@mypetsandme9473]

Could you do one on slow growers please ? . I have a slow grower in a nano exo terra . It’s lively , eating well , temp and humidity is fine . The rest of mine didn’t have that problem 😎 so I don’t think that it is nothing that I’m doing wrong . The other thing is that when I got it from the breeder at 1.5 grams there was a lot of stuck shed on its toes and I had to give it a sauna right away . Toes feel off at the back and it has kind of half grown them back . It’s eating small Silkworms twice a week and loves the fig with insect Pangea best of all 😊

[@LIPPETT4EVER]

Soooooo... part 2?

[@goldlinereptiles]

Woop

[@frankdughtank8327]

Whoop Whoop

[@beachtrash1852]

What? You guys are professionals, appear to be using pro equipment and I can't hear the guy with the ponytail! Can't watch!

[@missoli]

first

[@AnthonyVasquezEndZz]

Even beat me to it!

[@colleenberry6504]

Trying to play god.

[@RealPangeaReptile]

Nothing that drastic, just breeding for traits the same way dog and cat breeds were created.

[@mysteryunboxing3403]

You guys make another genetic foundation video. I literally watched this video over 20 times. I need more knowledge 🥸

[@lm.reptiles]

For those who didn't see, there's a written document with lots of details about this video at www.lmreptiles.com.