Crom Cruach, The Philosophy Of Old God Of Ireland -

Crom Cenn Cruach, the lord of the bloody mound of Ireland. One of the few of the Tuatha De who refused to be forced beneath the hills, and to fade as a little person beneath the mounds of the Eire.
The old myths of the British and Celtic peoples: amzn.to/3boMMvu
I Upload videos 2 to 3 times weekly on lore, myth, history, and the specific mythology, traditions, and lore of my Clan and modern interpretations of ancient gods, legends, myths, heroes, and traditions from Ireland, Norway, and all of Scandinavia and Europe. Ranging from the Vikings to the Celtic, Gaelic, and Manx people, all the ancient tribes and clans of these people and cultures. As well as mythologies from all over the world.
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[@TwistedAlphonso1]

So this is where Crom from Conan Lore, Galrauch The Father of The Chaos Dragons & the Chaos champion known as Crom The Conqueror from Warhammer Fantasy get their names from.

[@claystephenson9742]

Yes that what I’ve read a while ago

[@BlackDragonTavern]

Yes indeed. I was going to bring that up in the video, but I figured anyone who would care would recognize that without me needing to bring it up😅

[@DominusNox106]

Learning something new is always a good thing.

[@DeanNatheos-eq3hl]

Thank you for this very educational video please have a good night. Also mostly he is a dragon in most of the stories perhaps he is the inspiration for the dragon [Satan] in Christian revalation what do you think the story has influenced mythology and swords and sorcery and I think modern religious 😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊.

[@Jadeserphant]

Now see, I always knew there had to be more to Old Crom. You really filled in some holes and gave me lots of new directions for my research. Thanks!

[@BlackDragonTavern]

Cheers my friend 🙏👆

[@claystephenson9742]

Thank you for the lore of Crom, I’ve been been intrigued by him for years and there is little to no info about him except he is a evil deity

[@BlackDragonTavern]

That was the driving factor. He's been one of the most requested Irish deities since I first talked about him a year ago. I'm glad you enjoyed 😁

[@someguy4405]

I mostly know this snakey lad for his brief appearance in the film “The Secret of Kells”, and the sense of cosmic horror he gave eight year-old me.

[@BlackDragonTavern]

I figured that would be most people's exposure to him lol

[@gigineptune8523]

Thank you for another fun and informative video. My Mother's family was split apart when she was just a child, when her mother passed. I have never had the pleasure nor privilege of hearing tales passed through generations. Blessings to you and yours.

[@BlackDragonTavern]

Cheers, and thank you so much for the love and kindness. Your patronage will always be welcome in the Tavern 🙏

[@tylerbrooks2492]

My favorite channel so far. Do one on moloch if you've got the inkling please. Love the voice and setting, the humor puts it all over the top.

[@BlackDragonTavern]

Cheers to that my friend 👆🙏

[@tylerbrooks2492]

Skald brother

[@BlackDragonTavern]

Cheers my friend 🙏

[@paleohunterWHG]

I can not thank you enough for this knowledge, brother. You are extraordinary. Subscribed.

[@BlackDragonTavern]

It is my privilege and pleasure to have you in the Tavern 🙏💚

[@robertpena1890]

This was great! I think Magic the Gathering took some of the lore from this and used it in one of their Dragon storylines about Nicol Bolas.

[@BlackDragonTavern]

Most definitely, there's a lot of great lore in MTG, and khan's of tarkir borrows a lot from European, Japanese and Korean dragon myths. I love it👆👆

[@danielpowell9891]

Thank you for sharing your lineage. Blessings. Be well.

[@BlackDragonTavern]

A pleasure and privilege 👆

[@eoin1075]

You mention a few stones related to him and his worship. Would love for you to mention the geographical location of where these were found etc. I really enjoy finding out where these things are (to visit) and how the stories sometimes relate to them. Overall great video! New sub! Look forward to checking out more of your stuff!

[@BlackDragonTavern]

The most accessible one is in county Cavan. But there are a few throughout Ireland, and one on Wales. And thank you kindly for your patronage, I hope you enjoy your time in the Tavern 👆😁

[@LuxBellator92]

Fantastic video! I just discovered your channel and this video today seeking out more information on Crom Cruach, a deity that has always remained so mysterious to me. Thank you for shedding so much light on this fascinating and obscure god. I have already learned a lot!

[@BlackDragonTavern]

It is a pleasure and privilege to have you in the tavern 🙏

[@metalpurist83]

thank you for publishing this, absolutely delightful

[@BlackDragonTavern]

A pleasure and privilege, I'm glad you enjoyed 🙏

[@DominusNox106]

Thanks for this, Cousin. Very appreciative for the tales. I love the thought of Crom sitting in his mound and laughing hysterically while we just stumble around

[@BlackDragonTavern]

It is my absolute pleasure 🙏 And I agree, the image tickles me a bit 😅😁

[@Chromosome999]

Good video

[@BlackDragonTavern]

A privilege to serve as your storyteller my friend 🙏

[@Chucklesss12]

That was awesome, thanks for the stories

[@BlackDragonTavern]

An absolute pleasure and privilege 🙏💚

[@nyanderella]

Okay, I love you for this video. I am currently doing research about Crom Craugh for my anime blog and this video helped me understand his story better, because reading on my prior research made so confused, there's a lot of versions that seem wrong about this old god. I trust you a lot because you show that you know your stuff. Keep up the good work!

[@BlackDragonTavern]

That's awesome, I'm glad I could help! Thank you for your continued patronage of the Tavern 😁

[@GrimDarkHalfOff]

So from an indo-European theological perspective would you say that we could see Crom as a combination of both the Chaos Serpent and later the Dragon Slayer? I’ve heard a Celtic mythological analyst say that the term “Dragon” can also refer to a person with the power of a Dragon taken into themselves through killing it.

[@TwistedAlphonso1]

Oh don't do this to me, haha. This throws a wrench into the Fantasy world I'm creating, hahaha.

[@Texasmade74]

@@TwistedAlphonso1 your talking about fantasy and the person above you is addressing Irish paganism as the religion it is not some boardgame

[@BlackDragonTavern]

But all common fantasy is based on real world lore, and I think that's what he means, that he's writing something based on real world lore and this detail throws a wrench in his concept. Lord of the Rings borrows heavily from Norse and Finnish myth, Elden Ring is almost word for word Norse Mythos, Percy Jackson is a literal rewrite of Greek Mythology. So the two are not unrelated in terms of the topic being discussed. Especially considering the heavy usage of Crom in mediums like Conan the barbarian

[@TwistedAlphonso1]

@@BlackDragonTavern exactly what I'm working on. I'm creating a world based on reconstructed Proto Indo-European Mythology. In my world Manu and Yemo are twin Dragons.

[@TwistedAlphonso1]

@@Texasmade74 no one's talking about a board game. Skyrim is heavily based on Norse Mythology for example

[@AIBCustomFx]

If one thing pops up from the video it's that we (meaning I) desperately need a "name pronunciation" course for everything related to celtic/irish lore! great video, keep up the good work!

[@BlackDragonTavern]

It's alright, most people can't pronounce gaelic words on sight, even most Irish folk fight about it 😂

[@AIBCustomFx]

@@BlackDragonTavern But I want to know! :) how would you pronounce cythraul for example?

[@BlackDragonTavern]

That's more Welsh than Gaelge, but it would typically be said Cathrel, with a roll on the L

[@AIBCustomFx]

@@BlackDragonTavern thank you! Mystery solved!

[@BlackDragonTavern]

Lol my pleasure 🙏

[@ironsideyager6802]

My friend your best video by far!!!

[@BlackDragonTavern]

Cheers to that me son🙏👆

[@megangibson9670]

Thank you for the great video, I found it fascinating.

[@BlackDragonTavern]

My absolute pleasure and privilege

[@TJXD]

I feel like world of Warcraft drew inspiration from some of these tales it's so fascinating pair that with the ambient music, you're definitely my favorite story teller!

[@Jadeserphant]

Happy Lughnasa to you as well!

[@BlackDragonTavern]

I can't wait until I've built the Tavern and can host the actual festival for everyone

[@Arthurian_Rabbit]

I always hated the story that Crom was some baby murdering stone effigy that "primitive people" sacrificed their kids to until Saint Patrick came and knocked some smarts into them. Just a tad insulting. Hes a much more nuanced character. He's a sort've necessary evil that exists in the world that we all need to face from time to time.

[@BlackDragonTavern]

That's actually a rather apt way of looking at it👆 a sort of inevitable force of nature that must be encountered from time to time

[@suem6004]

Yes. Infant sacrifice to a stone is insulting.

[@Ringerofthelie]

@@Arthurian_Rabbit this is exactly what a fomorian would say 🧐

[@Pjvenom1985]

Very interesting tale good sir. Go raibh maith agat. ☘️

[@BlackDragonTavern]

Erin go bragh my friend 🙏

[@Muninn_og_Dauði]

Ēald Wyrm Crom Cruach🔥

[@BlackDragonTavern]

The great and might 😎

[@jonnywatts2970]

Crom laughs at your four winds!

[@BlackDragonTavern]

Indeed he does 😎

[@jamesholland8057]

Wow! The Irish go from one bad god to another.

[@justinfarmer4089]

Thanks for this. My family tree includes the name Croom. Etymologicly Croom derives from Crom. At least, that is what I was told as a child. I have often tried to find info about Crom but had little luck.

[@BlackDragonTavern]

It's a rare last name, but that is correct 👆

[@sugma4969]

Bro do the breakdown of the 'secret of kells'

[@BlackDragonTavern]

I would love to😎

[@TheCVMC]

Is there an actual calendar for all these festivals and celebrations? It would be an amazing way to start something with my family that had more meaning than the standard shopping holidays

[@BlackDragonTavern]

I actually wrote a small handbook on how my Clan celebrates the festivals of the year. Includes some lore, some recipes, and the general practices. I also put out a regular blog post with the same information. A calendar noting the holidays is a good idea though 👆😮

[@racheljacobs933]

Just in time for my lunch break

[@BlackDragonTavern]

Almost like I knew😱

[@racheljacobs933]

@@BlackDragonTavern well I certainly hope you aren't psychic I wouldn't wish that on you.

[@BlackDragonTavern]

Not psychic lol barely psychologically stable 😂

[@racheljacobs933]

@@BlackDragonTavern 🤣

[@markusmakela9380]

Mustan Lohikäärmeen Kestikievari (back dragon tavern) 👍. Island of fire, Iceland in the Kalevipoeg. Blacksmith Ilmarinen in Kalevalais runomittatarinoissa did really knew ancient Ireland. Greetings from Finchüüdország.

[@JohnSmith-2koolaid]

He laughs at your four winds.. high on his mountain!

[@BlackDragonTavern]

Indeed he does😎

[@SEKreiver]

Wasn't Croagh Padraigh originally named after Crom?

[@BlackDragonTavern]

Yes, that is Crom' hill

[@teyanuputorti7927]

The only time I heard of Crom is in the stories of Conan the Barbarian any connections?

[@BlackDragonTavern]

Indeed. Crom from the Conan world is inspired by Crom Cruach, as the barbarians creed is taken from some misguided representations the Greeks had about the Gauls and Gaels based on a Cult that existed some 1200 years ago.

[@teyanuputorti7927]

thank you@@BlackDragonTavern

[@BlackDragonTavern]

@teyanuputorti7927 It is always a pleasure my friend 😁

[@Wastelandman7000]

I'm wondering if HP Lovecraft used him as an inspiration for his mythos pantheon.

[@BlackDragonTavern]

It's likely

[@michaeloleary3661]

Hey Tavern, hope you're keeping well. Due to a lot of confusion within the mythologies regarding Tigernmas & Crom Cruach, I'm wondering who was historically the High King of Ireland during the worship of Crom & death of Tigernmas? ~ Thanks, Michael :)

[@BlackDragonTavern]

From my memory, there was no high king for some time after his death, but a man named Eochaid would take the throne some years later. Cheers my friend 🙏

[@CptEtgar]

secret of kells . thank you.

[@BlackDragonTavern]

I'll see what I can dig out of the back room 😎

[@thecassin8r]

Hi, I'm really new to learning about mythology, but are there any more resources out there on the July 31st detail? I'd really be interested in learning more about that, as I was born on the same date

[@user-ld9tf4td8s]

Crom sounds like a World-serpent, so I don't know why they don't depict him like Jormungandr, Antaboga, Leviathan, or even Ouroboros

[@BlackDragonTavern]

I think it primarily has to do with agency. Most of those other serpents are beholden to other beings, seen as beasts, intelligent beasts, but beasts nonetheless. Crom is depicted as being a sovereign, domineering over other beings.

[@Budewfan]

In regards to the money back guarantee at 4:44, does the third July mean: From when the Julian Calendar introduced the twelve month calendar in 45 B.C. (Meaning it will next be applicable on July 8th, 2025)? or From when it was named July after Caesar in 46 B.C. (Meaning it will next be applicable on July 11th, 2023)?

[@BlackDragonTavern]

I'll be honest, you thought this joke out more than I did lol

[@smcwr]

I don't think I seem him as evil, simply a power that is above or concepts of right and wrong. Maybe we should have sought his wisdom, rather than battling him, lol

[@BlackDragonTavern]

Agreed👆

[@daranpagano3887]

Hello. I got a bit confused about Crom’s day. Is it on the Sunday before Lughnassadh? Or the day before Lughnassadh?

[@BlackDragonTavern]

I would say the day before

[@nilcriochgubascelticfolkceltic]

Crom Cruach is also believed to be the Gaelic version of Cernunnos also the later green man . Crom Cruach was a shape shifter. Obviously not a seperant St.Patrick/ Palladius is said to have banished & snakes meaning pagans. Possibly because the catholics didn't understand dragon's also not native to the ises but believed to have came from the other world. Palladius being a Roman slave didn't bring Christianity however somehow became a Moniker over different time periods. & yes A dragon in one ancient story he turned into a dragon not if fear but to protect his people I also heard of him being 2 as well. He also turned into a wolf & a stag & a boar 🐗 sound familiar. Indeed that's where the similarities come in between Gaul and Irish Gael which Migrated from Ireland into Scotland. Druids in ancient Ireland & today's as well used Torcs in honor of Crom Cruach the green man being his previous form. The church however brought up Baby Sacrifice & other human blood shed aye could that be the reason for him being sounded as a cruel God who didn't care about anything but blood titling him the blood God. However in the st. Patrick Palladius story he died as a sea Serpent/ sea dragon. Some thing's I haven't heard like him being a femorian, how ever lugh is half femorian and has been other's however the 2 dragon's originally we're both land & air dragon's Crom Cruach & his wife Corra , Did you know he had a wife :) do to their actual friendly nature it is Believed they were apart of the tuatha de danann which is a term that describes Celtic deities from other lands across Europe said to came from the other world. Perhaps they we're both , Tuatha dé Danan & Femorian like lugh maybe what I do know is Crom Cruach & Corra are Forrest deities. I'd learn more about branches of the Gaelic deities in my later studies . There's Celtic druid temple & School of Lughnasa /lughnasadh also owned by them in Ireland. Con Connor being the elder druid

[@dullahan7677]

Sub for the Kardashian burn, my good sir!

[@BlackDragonTavern]

😂😂🙏 cheers for that

[@maisygracey9928]

How do you spell the word you mentioned “Drach sil” or “drag sil”? I tried google but… well we all know how terrible google search is lately.

[@BlackDragonTavern]

Draigsl You likely won't find much through Google. This aspect is one of a few that's almost exclusively kept by the Clan of the black. That's not to say it's NEVER mentioned, but most biblical and secular scholars misinterpret or just get it wrong entirely

[@PawAndCaw]

You said Crom was also the Uncle of a Norse god, I'm assuming Odin or Thor. May I ask how you draw that conclusion? Genuinely curious.

[@BlackDragonTavern]

It comes from internal mythos. My grandfathers Clan has been keeping and collecting stories for generations and many of these cultural stories have overlaps, and some of them we have internally cannonized as being the same or related to neighboring stories, just by different names or means

[@PawAndCaw]

@@BlackDragonTavern I've done a bit of a mini binge of your videos since this comment and am absolutely loving hearing your clan lore. You are a masterful story teller.

[@dylanhiggins1970]

Also Thunderbolt project we are electric and so isn’t the universe or plasmavures

[@BlackDragonTavern]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean

[@iouel]

His head is Idaho

[@ricktoffer01]

Crom is the God of Conan the Barbarian by Robert E Howard. The oldest Gods and Goddesses are the Sumerian Anu, Enlil, Enki, Ninhursag, Utu, and Inanna. Which much of the myth of the Judaism/Christian myth comes from. But that is the first myth that was ever written down. Other people's myths went on for thousands of years unrecorded just passed down by generations of story tellers telling of great tales at the fireside in the evening before night. I love AD&D more than D&D. Been playing it since 1978.☢ENDS☢

[@BlackDragonTavern]

Right, the Sumerian gods date back to about 2400 BCE. Crom was utilized by Robert E. Howard in his novels, but he was certainly not the creator of Crom Cruach. Especially given the fact that Croms standing stones date before even the Sumerian gods and the oral traditions of him date back even further than that. That's not to say he's necessarily older, but that's a story for another time.

[@ricktoffer01]

@@BlackDragonTavern That's what I meant by the stories passed down orally. Just because the Sumerians, Hindus, and Chinese were the first to write down their myths really doesn't make them the oldest. I have always wondered that many of the myths of paleolithic gathers and hunters setting around a campfire at night trying to explain and to make sense of their world. Then it really took off when they became Neolithic. When I was a kid, my grandfather used to tell me stories of the Crow Indian myths. My Irish grandfather would also tell me of the myths of Ireland. Those were the days that I will always cherish! I would sit many an evening listing to their stories than watching tv when I stayed with them for a few days in the summer. Robert E Howard heard stories about Crom and used that name in his Conan books. Howard did start studying Celtic myths and learning Galic in the 1930s. So, maybe there is where he used Crom in his stories.

[@BlackDragonTavern]

Back before WWII there were still quite a few of us in Ireland and the UK. During the period between WWI and WWII was when a good bulk of our people died off, and my grandfather reorganized and reestablished a clan structure in the 50's.

[@ricktoffer01]

@@BlackDragonTavern Your grandfather kept your heritage alive, and it shows in your videos to teach others. I still play AD&D today and I love to incorporate the Celtic myths my grandfather taught me as I'm Dm-Ing the game. That's one reason they want me to Dm all the time. I tell the stories as my grandfather did to me. The younger generation loves hearing them. Both of my grandfathers passed away by the time I was ten years old. You are so lucky to have the knowledge of your clan. I appreciate you telling me about those wonderful myths in your videos.

[@yvonnesmith6152]

Crom = Kronos = Saturn Eater of children; God of the Harvest and of Time and its undulating meandering. God of feasts; God of cosmic balance and of general checks-and-balances and God of Wealth. The One of the crooked blade (sickle) Hesiod writes, “The youngest was born, crooked-schemer Kronos,most fearsome of children who loathed his lusty father.” Zeus being referred to as “the son of crooked Kronos” is just another example. Crom is most intimately related to Kronos/Saturn, whose veneration has never waned. Killy-cluggin (head bashing) stone was said to have stood on Magh Slecht in the time of Tigernmas where the Gaels sacrificed their firstborn (sons) and third of their harvest. Another indicator of Kronos/Saturn worship as the Eater of children. Feasts were also deeply entwined with sacrifice and the idea of cosmic balance. So many connections between the Crom and Cronos.

[@gnomikon7836]

Interesting comparison. But unfortunately both Kronos and Saturn have suffered also from negative interpretation. Kronos is kouro nous, pure mind, and Saturn is Satis, satiated/full being. Whereas Zeus is oriented to creating, like Brahma, Kronos is oriented upwards to the One, like Shiva, thus the eating of his offspring, the reversion and assimilation of the flow of abundance from the One. Thus he does not create. If Crom is associated with Kronos, the child sacrifices, although too extreme, probably have to do with the purity of Kronos being reflected in the purity of children. How does this translates to need of sacrifice, only they knew. The only ancient practice comparable is that of Moloch.

[@psylax5592]

О Кром... Проклятье Крома! Кром и его демоны!

[@BlackDragonTavern]

😮

[@holderblackledge8227]

What was the mantra?

[@BlackDragonTavern]

Did I mention a mantra??

[@holderblackledge8227]

@@BlackDragonTavern mantra/ the saying about laying crom crauch laying in the sun?

[@BlackDragonTavern]

Ooooh. Crom sits atop his mound, at the center of the four winds and all the elements, with his head in the sun and his feet wrapped in ice, and he laughs as time blows past him. There is a simpler version that's more modern. Crom laughs at your four winds, from atop his mound.

[@holderblackledge8227]

@@BlackDragonTavern thank you!

[@theangrygamer1232]

I always told ny my father he was shapshifter god .

[@BlackDragonTavern]

Many of the old stories about old gods said something similar, so it is a fair notion to have.

[@irishrebel374]

Why you mixing The Dagda and Crom ???

[@BlackDragonTavern]

There's no mixing of the two in the video. There might be some parallels in the common myth and in clan lore. Which is not unusual. But no mixing happens in the video.

[@Ravenwhatifs]

Crom Cruach dxd

[@lalonguecarabine4952]

4:12 That’s Molech a Cannanite god associated with child sacrifice.

[@BlackDragonTavern]

🤔🤔 interesting

[@BlackDragonTavern]

I see what you mean, the cow imagery. Yes, you are correct, the cow head effigy was also used for Crom in some of the death cults, but the imagery used does come from the biblical Molech.

[@lalonguecarabine4952]

@@BlackDragonTavern Grandfather was from Larne btw, slainte.

[@BlackDragonTavern]

Erin go bragh my friend 🙏

[@irishrebel374]

Oy written knowledge of Crom and Cora are in a 7th century manuscript in the book of Leinster btw. The children of Dana worshipped Crom but the children of Dana were not god's themselves.

[@BlackDragonTavern]

I'm not sure which 7th century manuscript you're referring to, the Book of Leinster was compiled in the mid-late 12th century. The instances of Crom in that manuscript are incredibly limited, but I do reference them in the video. If you mean the Children of Danu, then some of the most infamous God's of Ireland are said to be her downline, including the Dagda, Lugh, and the Morrigan. So I'm not sure what source you might be pulling from. There's plenty of post christian literature that agrees with the assertion you've made, but most of it is widely discredited by academics and historians

[@irishrebel374]

@@BlackDragonTavern the manuscript is 7th century in the book of Leinster.. check it out if you think I'm lying. It tells of a statue of Crom surrounded by 12 smaller statues in a circle representing the 12 constellations.. I'm a Luinigh. One if my ancestors wrote the A&B sections of the annuals of Ulster as well as other works, including inspiring Tolkien's elven writing in his books.

[@BlackDragonTavern]

I'm well educated on the book, I don't think you're lying. There are pages there that are believed to date back to the 7th and 8th century, but the manuscript itself was compiled in 1160 to 1175. And yes, I referenced that story in the video.

[@irishrebel374]

@@BlackDragonTavern the Dınnṡeanċas is the source of most of our Mythology..

[@irishrebel374]

@@BlackDragonTavernil keep honouring Crom & Cora. I'm sure the Dagda would want it that way hey lolol good luck with the channel.

[@davidsantos1630]

Loki?

[@ironsideyager6802]

Hi David his Last video was actually on Loki if you could go to his channel you should see it!

[@BlackDragonTavern]

I did indeed just make a video about Loki 👆

[@Short_heights]

So, who is here from bionicPIG?

[@BlackDragonTavern]

I'll be honest... I don't know who that is 😅

[@joshthemyth1]

Lies bro they were evil af think about it human sacrifices playa?

[@BlackDragonTavern]

Well human sacrifice has happened all over the world in the name of almost every god in existence. I agree it's an evil practice, but what people do is not necessarily reflective of the nature of a higher being.

[@breadncircuses]

Hi J.D. - I really appreciated this video. I'm fairly pedantic as a scholar and I have emailed but haven't received any reply to date. Can you answer this simple question? Do you think Crom is an older chthonic deity of the Mesolithic hunter-gatherers (who arrived ca. 8,000 BCE) or Southern European early farmers who settled in Sardinia and southern Spain who first colonized Ireland (ca. 5,000 BCE), or a deity introduced by the first wave of Indo-European Celts (ca. 3,000 BCE) or the northern Spanish Celtic basques who invaded (ca. 1000 BCE), or an amalgam of those aforementioned here? What is the relationship of Crom to The Dagda in your black dragon clan lore? It'd seem to me that The Dagda is a rebranding of Crom to make his worship less controversial after the Christians forbade Celtic druidic practice.

[@BlackDragonTavern]

Hey Josh, thank you for the reminder. I actually have your email book marked for reply. My schedule has been hectic and I haven't had a chance to get back to it. I like to give detailed responses to such insightful inquiries. To answer your general question. Crom is a primordial, existing before even the Fomorians. I do believe his form then would have been something draconic in nature. The dagda on the other hand is of the tribe of Danu and he comes from two schools, one is a very old Chieftain, likely of the Bell Beakers, who inspired his Giant imagery and many of his stories. And the ancestor who was actually of the tribe of Danu. They are distinctly different, and at odds, in our stories. I will eventually get to a more detailed response in email, just bear with me 😅 I appreciate your inquiry and the discourse