Cult Deprogramming: Understanding "Woke" as a Belief System and a Behavior System, with Keri Smith

[@dontarguewithidiots7459]

I met someone for a business lunch in Princeton, NJ the other day. The town is exactly what you would expect - affluent, white, liberal. Full of the "lawn sign" crowd. Anyway, the lawyer I met was aggressively political and - frankly obnoxious. I listened patiently, was very nice, and at the end of the meeting, joked with her - "bet you've never met a kind Republican? She said no.. I said well you did now." She looked at me with a confused expression. LIVE YOUR VALUES. Be the best person you can. We only go around once.. Awesome talk Leslie and Keri. You make every long drive I have so wonderful:)

[@garyweglarz]

As Morris Berman put it - "An idea is something you have - an ideology is something that has you."

As the movie Dogma said.... Beliefs are dangerous... people kill for beliefs, they die for beliefs... ideas can change.

[@VedantaKesari]

Very good!

[@randibass7558]

Sooo accurate!!

[@FreakOfAges]

"People don't have ideas. Ideas have people." - Carl Jung

[@stephen1137]

Beliefs are unavoidable. The alternative being the cessastion of thought. Examining the evidence for anything based on objectively knowable facts versus subjective and disputable assertions is what is the problem. What we are confronted with is assertions which we can objectively know to be not only false but downright lies. So one might decide it is worth while to explore why these people are dedicated to coercing everyone to accept or at least convincingly pretend to accept their obvious lies to the extent that the economy and executive powers of government assert these lies, codify them, and persecute and punish those who will not "comply". ( I'm satisfied that in the end it all comes down to saying 'yes' or 'no' to Jesus - the Jesus of the scriptures, abiding in him, and living according to the Holy Spirit and the Word, and learning the authority he confers. Many disagree with my conclusion, but we still agree that we are confronted with the malicious and militant assertion of the obvious lies of the "woke" religion, and that we must never compromise with it or accommodate these lies in any way, except insofar as any compromise or accommodation is to serve the tactical situation of the moment while not undercutting the overall strategic objective of completely destroying this "woke" religion. And why? Because normal people have empathy and genuinely deisre health and happiness for others and these lies cause real harm, real pain, real suffering, real destruction. And the truths which are demonstrated by rules of a functioning society, personal freedom and autonomy, privacy and the sacrosanct status of privacy and private property, and family - man, woman, husband, wife, child - are what makes life not only bearable but even desirable by their inherent benefits in terms of both practical and emotional needs. How do I qualify as those "beliefs" or "ideas" as "truths"? I qualify them as such because they can be objectively observed to conduce to good physical and mental health and happiness and not harm and not pain and not suffering and not destruction. )

[@ribbrascal]

I divide The Woke into two general camps, with some overlap: The Malevolent and The Misguided Sun-Tzu talked about giving enemies a "Golden Bridge" to safety That's the kind of thing that we need to be offering to The Misguided

[@skylinefever]

Is this why communists talked about having useful idiots? There were people who used communism as a tool, and fools promoting it?

[@sweetsendaedreamr]

The misguided ended affirmative action, now white women don't have as much consideration during college admissions. The Malevolent ended equal opportunity and dei in colleges. Now ivy league colleges don't have to fulfill white low income class quotas . They can let in more legacy and actual smart candidates who will fulfill their land grants and private funding needs.

[@abcdeshole]

Sounds like the cluster Bs and the normals.

[@shadowpoet4398]

Well, @partiellementecreme, you would be unable to be more correct if you tried to be. I say this from experience, good luck out there.

[@kevinmcfarlane2752]

That’s common to totalitarian ideologies and cults or both.

[@ThePbag]

The reason people are hostile when you're "late to the party" is because they've been dragged along through the rapids by you, despite having been screaming at you the entire time to change course. There should be humility in people who abetted this destructive ideology, the same as expecting contrition from COVID zealots who destroyed others' lives with their fanaticism and now expect an amnesty.

[@andybrice2711]

I think generally when someone says _"I understood this long before you."_ What they're really saying is _"I think your new beliefs are still not radical enough. I am smarter than you. So you should listen to me and accept my more radical ideas."_

[@skylinefever]

@@andybrice2711 I'm not evil, I'm just ahead of the curve. Joker.

[@gg_rider]

Point. But probably not very useful towards any useful goals.

[@Andre_Louis_Moreau]

Being late to the party is a matter of "how late" for everyone. I was never woke, or a male feminist, or anywhere near any social justice crap. But I was a mildly obnoxious atheist for a few years, but watching "atheism plus" melt a lot of 'skeptical, critical thinkers' brains cured that. It really had me rethink a whole lot, and I did figure out what I'd missed, what most atheists miss, and why they're such easy marks for marxism. Whether they apologize or not, they'll probably do a lot good given time.

[@RosemaryDrone-zy2eh]

I totally agree

[@J.J.Parson]

I loved this discussion. I've been watching this ghastly woke movement for years - starting with Benjamin's coverage of the Evergreen College calamity. I'm often torn between wanting to fight against it vs. wanting to avoid that conflict and drama so I can serve my deeper purpose. I very much appreciate your approach of not seeing them as an enemy but rather as friends that haven't seen the underbelly of this beastly movement yet. Your spiritual diversion in the 2nd half was riveting for me. You are looking at this problem in ways that most others aren't doing and that's very valuable.

[@dontarguewithidiots7459]

"Hatred corrodes the container it's carried in" - Alan K. Simpson (eulogy for G HW Bush). I wanted to share that quote with you all.

[@RosemaryDrone-zy2eh]

I wonder to whom or what he's alluding?

[@bottlethrower1544]

Interesting how so many "former liberals" are the vanguard against the woke borg. Taibbi, Greenwald, Rogan, Brand, Schellenberger and now (I think) Jimmy Dohr As a lifelong conservative, these are all my favorite thought leaders. And now I found this gem😊

[@skylinefever]

I take some interest in Tim Pool for calling himself "Politically homeless."

[@ribbrascal]

Relatable. I was a lifelong "liberal/progressive", albeit one with a total lack of White Guilt and who never infantilized women, blacks, homosexuals (like me) and other "marginalized groups" as perpetual victims without agency or accountability for their actions. My "woke breaking point" (hashtag by James Lindsay) was the abysmal reaction of "feminists" to the mass sexual assaults of German women by Muslim men across Germany, New Year's Eve, 2015, after witnessing this sick woke mind virus become an epidemic starting around early 2014, near as I can tell.

Amazing how once one has made their money they can develop a conscience.

​@@ribbrascalIt's been since at least the 90s and some of the early 70s data says at least then too tbh.

[@skylinefever]

@@ribbrascal I called it as somewhat of a joke "The intersection of don't be Islamophobic and treat women right." Pick one, left nuts.

[@Uriel-Septim.]

“Of all the bad men, religious bad men are the worst.” --C.S. Lewis.

[@frankgradus9474]

Today these are - islamists.

[@fox1actual]

I’d disagree, Godless bad men are the worst because they have no restraint and have nothing to be held to. We are seeing this right now with the Left. At least religious bad men still have a standard to be bound to regardless of how warped their views are.

[@crystalcrystal9214]

Yes, yes, yes! It is first and foremost a spiritual war. Once you get that, everything else about it makes sense. Bravo!❤

[@marymitchell4617]

Definitely. It isn't left vs right, either.. it's crystal clear; this is a battle between good & evil; a spiritual battle, like you said. Lines are drawn, breaking news stories come at us, each more horrific than the last, we're inundated with catastrophe, how can the Maui wildfires be a distant memory? It's pretty clear who's working for the dept. of deception downstairs, too. They seem to be winning more battles & it demoralizes & discourages us. I'm battle weary already, how much more?! I do have faith that good will win ultimately, & I have to trust that God has a plan & offer it up.

[@crystalcrystal9214]

@@marymitchell4617 I really appreciate your comment and can relate. I believe it will only keep getting worse and worse. Come quickly Lord Jesus❤️

[@randibass7558]

Yes, yes!!

[@skilz8098]

Ephesians 6:12

[@RosemaryDrone-zy2eh]

We can't forget this comes from the left!

[@TTTNMW]

It’s interesting that you mentioned you’re from Seattle area. I went to grad school there in 2015 and I met my fiancé there. He is from that area. By the time 2020 came, he was willing to move with me back to my hometown in New England because the “defund the police” movement had gotten so bad. I’m glad we made that move. New England has such deep roots in the foundation of the country that we have mostly been able to avoid the total destruction of American values. And being a Christian is fully accepted here! Churches on almost every block.

[@GrimrDirge]

I've seen Keri elsewhere, she is a gem.

[@dualviols]

Yes, I think I’ve seen her with Josh Slocum on his Disaffected podcast and with Benjamin of course 😊

[@kevinmcfarlane2752]

I think Keri has one of the best takes on Woke that’s not high falutin academic.

[@ronyeahwiggie729]

The Covfefe-podcast perhaps? She co-hosted that one.

[@HappyJF]

I’m a huge fan of Keri. I’m really looking forward to this!

[@KevinKervick]

Woke is cultural genocide. "Cultural genocide, or ethnocide, is defined as the deliberate destruction or suppression of a targeted group's cultural heritage, practices, and identity. While not officially adopted by the U.N., the following definition was proposed in 1994 to define the term within international law (emphasis mine): Indigenous peoples have the collective and individual right not to be subjected to ethnocide and cultural genocide, including prevention of and redress for: (a) Any action which has the aim or effect of depriving them of their integrity as distinct peoples, or of their cultural values or ethnic identities; (b) Any action which has the aim or effect of dispossessing them of their lands, territories or resources; (c) Any form of population transfer which has the aim or effect of violating or undermining any of their rights; (d) Any form of assimilation or integration by other cultures or ways of life imposed on them by legislative, administrative or other measures; (e) Any form of propaganda directed against them. This insidious form of violence aims not only to eradicate tangible aspects of a culture, such as language, religion, and traditions, but also to undermine the collective memory and sense of belonging of the oppressed group. Whether through forced assimilation, religious persecution, or systematic discrimination, cultural genocide seeks to assert dominance and control by erasing the unique characteristics and autonomy of the targeted peoples. What I propose should be abundantly clear by now: the American government, at seemingly every level, is actively engaged in the long running ethnic and cultural genocide of America." - Scipio Eruditus, The End of Empire

[@Thunderrolls]

I appreciate this, it's a tool for thinking about the idea virus. Keep in mind that any wokester will immediately point out that this proposal specifies that the notion of ethnocide applies to indigenous peoples. They'd likely take this idea and run with it. Not only excluding the West, but they'd extend its beneficiaries to subjugated cultures and sexualities, and oppressed minority races and queer identities, and that's it. You know the game. They are masters at appropriating labels that a "based" objector might use to accuse them, usually accurately, of something that they are guilty of, and turning around and claiming that you supposedly are the one who has been subjecting them to this new concept. They're like corporate spies. They'll ignore the copyright of an idea. They're studied in the art of obfuscation. Quite literally, they have accredited fields of study, multimillion dollar grants, fully funded labs, whole departments, publications, PHD programs, the works, to reify and refine their legendary BS. BS Marx would be proud of. Oh, they'd seize upon ethnocide in a minute. Guess who they'd choose as their holy victims who are being subjected to this term now in the Middle East? They wouldn't mind adding it to the other miss-used UN war crime vocabulary. As a hint, it rhymes with ethnocide. These people are aficionados at language. They're slippery. They're ideological T-1000s. And they have remorse when they gaslight an entire generation. I didn't intend for this to denigrate your contribution, I just got carried away. I appreciate thinking in those terms. The wokesters have a linguistic arsenal and a self-reinforcing mechanism of institutional knowledge. They have these advantages while they claim to be underdogs. To attack any of their identity groups or to question any of their savior complexes, is to punch down. How dare you! So we could use some heat on our side. The side of good, the side of truth, the side of eternal reality, of fact, of common sense. All that is useless, unless we can marshall our own linguistic militia, so to speak. Which president was it long ago who said, in a beautiful speech, that if our great nation were to fall, it wouldn't be at the hands of invaders, but by our very own? Okay. Let's keep that in mind. Cuz the constitution couldn't foresee ths internet. The founding fathers couldn't have predicted furries, and gender queer, and post structuralism. What they knew about keeping these ideals safe guarded was enough to inform them of an individual pride of nation that would inspire in each citizen a sense of protective fondness for their homeland. And they wrote, after the very 1st amendment, the god given right to protect ourselves with lead. In case the government cannibalized itself. Became tyrannical and turned on its citizenry. In that case, we'd have a wide web of homeland defenders, coming out of the woodwork to roll up on any over reach. The founding fathers knew government over reach, in different language, was always a possibility, but they didn't know we'd have wokesters. And the wokesters are a combination of the necrotizing, flesh eating ideological zombies, bent on "change at all costs." Which translates to, "burn it all down, then loot, then profit?" They don't think very far, they're more concerned about delineating pronouns. To wrap it up, and thanks if you're still with me: In the spirit of the 2nd amendment, in which citizens are always armed, to form a ready militia to defend our nation as a last resort, that is what must be done. But the battlefield of the West vs the 21st C. barbarians will not be held on a theater of dirt, lead and blood. At least, not the frontlines, but, perhaps it could come to that, if they suceed. Instead, in the spirit of the 2nd amendment, with the realities of the battlefield being a war of ideas, we can only arm ourselves with linguistic anti missile capabilities, expert rhetoric tactical teams, and the nuclear f-ing atom bomb of well studied truth. Yes. Your contribution was perfect. We need more of that. By the way, god bless the troops, gotta day that. But, unfortunately, there is nothing noble about the most utilitarian warriors against woke, you must fight with words. Unfortunately, the highest [or most effective] mark of patriotism today will be linguistic deadlines, above all. Boys and girls... we're being slaughtered. But there's hope. Not just because their arguments are ridiculous. They crumble like gingerbread houses. They fly off the handle and discredit themselves if you left them speak long enough, and ask the right things. They slaughter us because we're not even allowed to fight back. Truth is outside of the Overton Window. But make no mistake, truth is on your side. This is obvious. And best, you're open to discuss it anyway. You will always bounce back. You're undeniable. Your armor is truth. This is the start of the final battle. We now fight for the survival of our civilization. It's not overstating it to say that the world, yes, even our "enemies," are counting on us to whoop them.

[@ribbrascal]

It's also a pre literal genocidal ideology against Europeans. That's the logical endpoint of "dismantling whiteness", a psychosocial "system of oppression" that the Cult of Woke relentlessly asserts *all* white people are "complicit" in. It's the most evil thing I've ever seen in my life.

[@MsDormy]

It’s happening in Britain too.

[@KevinKervick]

Yes, I know. A man was recently arrested for making pro-white stickers. Standing against the woke belief system is now a crime.@@MsDormy

[@skylinefever]

I wonder what would have happenned if the UN didn't shift the goalposts, and -cide was Latin for murder.

[@Uriel-Septim.]

“Fortunately, some are born with spiritual immune systems that sooner or later give rejection to the illusory worldview grafted upon them from birth through social conditioning, They begin sensing that something is amiss, and start looking for answers, Inner knowledge and anomalous outer experiences show them a side of reality others are oblivious to, and so begins their journey of awakening, Each step of the journey is made by following the heart instead of following the crowd and by choosing knowledge over the veils of ignorance.” -- Henri Bergson (1859 -1941)

[@metgirl5429]

So refreshing to hear you both talk sense ♥️ Are we awake now🕊

[@patrickselden5747]

What a wonderful and thought-provoking conversation! Thank you very much... ☝️😎

[@GreyDez88]

This is like when Superman and Batman teamed up ❤

[@theradicalcenter]

😂

[@stayfree6115]

It is right left. When good meets evil halfway good looses, because evil never quits, it regroups, changes names, language and again demands good meet it halfway. In the end you'll find yourself surrounded by evil. Don't be afraid to call evil, evil. Not everything is grey. Many things are black and white. Stand for something or fall for anything.

[@RosemaryDrone-zy2eh]

I so agree. It's still evil. It's just regrouping.

[@RosemaryDrone-zy2eh]

I agree. I think "not as evil" joins us in the fight then turns on us!

[@RosemaryDrone-zy2eh]

I forgot I commented on this. Lol

[@RosemaryDrone-zy2eh]

We on the right knew all this all along

[@koenvandamme9409]

"When you try to stay in the center, you're misconstrued by both sides". True, and we should learn to see this for what it is: a compliment. The extremists are telling you that you're not one of them. Good for you.

[@ac27934]

"What's Our Problem" by Tim Urban is a great book for waking people up, because it starts with a neutral framework for looking at things, then applies it to conservatives, and once you're nodding your head and agreeing that the framework is useful, he turns it on wokeism, and provides tons of detailed examples.

[@Vibrant_Goo]

Unsafe Space was a great channel and felt like I was surrounded by sane people in the middle of covid. Carter and Keri, while they had differing philosophies, were a great duo - an objectivist and a religious person. The channel was about the common ground and their similar philosophy, though with differing epistemology.

[@s.a.vanvleck45]

What happened to that channel? I heard there was some controversy, but I don't know what happened.

[@Vibrant_Goo]

@@s.a.vanvleck45 Keri left (unsure why), but the show continued and slowly died.

[@s.a.vanvleck45]

Thanks for the additional information.

[@evad7933]

I think Carter was an anchor. Many would say, a wanker.

[@evad7933]

Differing 'belief sets' ...not differing 'philosophies'.

[@matthewbrown8679]

34:30 The kind of person you can influence by just treating them well is someone who doesn't know many people of opposing views, meets one, and realize she isn't a monster. It can be very different for someone raised very differently who chose to give up the values she was raised with, and chose to see loved ones as monsters because those loved ones failed to embrace her extremism. She will have no epiphany because she already knows better and chooses to go against that.

[@DepDawg]

This is very true.

[@paulmetzger5344]

I notice that in this discussion little is said about Woke's bias against men. Woke prejudice also is focused at men, not just race.

[@lizstewart1532]

It is against the gender binary (nuclear family). Against traditional roles/based in biology. It comes from Marxist Social Reproduction Theory. They think that Capitalism created the gender binary in order to support capitalism/ provide proletariat workers for bourgeois capitalists.

[@channel1_channel]

Agreed...but there are many peripheral, or even central points, these ladies did not highlight during this discussion.

[@ribbrascal]

I haven't listened to it yet but the main target of animus in Wokeness is Europeans. Then men, especially heterosexual ones. Come to think of it, I never hear wokies attack black men or women for "privilege" over homosexuals It's a very unstable religion, to put it mildly

[@skylinefever]

One of my favorite parts of the wokerati was trying to paint inceldom as something only for white men. I knew that couldn't be true ever since the beginning of the incel panic. That is because I knew of the gendercide in mainland China.

[@jeremyeblack4987]

So, you haven't noticed the trans war on women? Gender is a social construct? Birthing people? Chest feeders? Both are under attack. More division isn't going to help. They win if we can't stand united.

[@JarvisGandy]

Your right its not about Right or Left its About patriotism vs Communism.

[@fox1actual]

You can argue that Patriotism is Right leaning and Communism is Left leaning

[@shadowpoet4398]

Wokeness is a religion. It has its own set of rules, mores, laws, folk ways, Sacred Space, Clergy, laity, and pretty much everything else that is required to make a religion. This is a cult and I've been saying that for many years. Why don't you ask one of them what the meaning of life is, and they'll probably say equity. This is a fucking religion and I don't care what anyone says about it, I have a degree in religious studies from NC State University and I don't care what anyone says. This is a point I am completely convinced of, so I'm happy to see this video. Stay the course, my friends

[@kevinmcfarlane2752]

I would say it’s a cult. I would then say that all cults are religious, but not all religions are cults.

[@OpaHutz]

This is so encouraging and heartwarming to hear this conversation!

[@WonderfulWorldofAwesomeness]

I did experience this stuff in the 90s in college in the SF Bay Area. But I never predicted it would spread out from the radical academic world into the greater mainstream world. At the time it seemed like a relative harmless fringe ideology believed in by a few radical professors.

[@skylinefever]

I wonder how many are hard believers, how many are NPCs, and how many are just trying to fit in? I think about how many Christians are able to believe the stuff to the core, and how many are just barely hanging on and trying not to lose Pacal's Wager.

[@WonderfulWorldofAwesomeness]

@@skylinefever I truly believe that most people don’t investigate any of it, and go along with whatever the “experts” tell them out of sheer lack of intellectual curiosity, being too busy living their lives, and not having a personal stake in it. I’ll admit that I went along with this stuff as it crept into my work life and then personal life simply because it was more convenient to do so. It wasn’t until it smacked me across the face and threatened to destroy everything I held near and dear to my heart (my life’s work and my family) that I was forced to confront it head on. I believe that more and more people will not be able to ignore the fact that none of it makes sense when it also begins to destroy their lives. In other words, it’s just more convenient and easier to go along with it, until it isn’t.

[@nerychristian]

I started university in the late 90s. And I do remember seeing some organizations on campus that promoted this racial and diversity crap. But like you said, it was a fringe group that didn't seem to have much influence on campus. But now it has completely taken over society. Not sure what caused it to increase so much

[@sweetsendaedreamr]

Colleges like many countries are multicultural. Businesses encourage diversity and multiculturalism because homogeneity and xenophobic populations self destruct in the face of simple adversity. Look at the echo chamber in this thread. Many of the complaints are to problems caused by individuals unable to develop beyond toddler level social and community skills.

[@ribbrascal]

@@sweetsendaedreamr lol

[@markandremy]

very cool! So glad to see you guys together talking shop!

[@cestmoi4532]

What an amazing place to spend an hour and a half. ❤

[@ImTheSlime]

I was a progressive liberal lefty for most of my teens thru 20’s. Then I became a hard-core Christian conservative Alt- Righty thru my 30’s and 40’s. Now I’m in my 50’s and SO tired that I’ve made my final climb up the fulcrum of the never ending swinging Pendulum… and have found myself standing in the perfect middle!

[@sliglusamelius8578]

There is no middle ground with God. I have no idea what that even means. Can we be half-Christian? Can we support half communism? Half sexual promiscuity??

[@SoothingStrengthSanctuary]

The best place ❤

[@realraven2000]

What if…. There is no middle?

[@fox1actual]

@@realraven2000there really isn’t. If you find yourself in the middle you have compromised your beliefs somewhere in between so you can boast about being in the “sacred” middle. It’s so gross and intellectually flawed.

[@ImTheSlime]

@@fox1actual- you say it is “intellectually flawed” to claim to be in “the middle”… your comment is completely illogical, if you concede that there are “sides” then it logically follows that a middle certainly exists, between the “sides”. You just sound jealous to me with your “gross” comment, obviously your partisanship is rotting your mind.

[@465marko]

I really like Keri. Watched her Peter Boghossian interview and that was great too. This was just one of those excellent interviews/discussions, every minute of it. Thank you both very much.

[@jen7662]

Great talk, I was not expecting the conversation around spirituality. At first I bought into activism but was so thankful to have a friend (who’s from Russia) to kindly and gently tell me her perspective on blm, gender activists etc. If I didn’t have her I would’ve likely fallen full steam. As far as being shamed of waking up, I think there is resentment from those individuals who have been yelling for years about what’s happening. While I can’t quantify it, I recall when people were trying to push against gender ideology and (at least with social media) focus more on the importance of freedom of speech and criticism. Now it feels like those individuals are hardened, resentful from not being listened too. Their responses feel (ironically) similar to activists. it’s up to them to not lose themselves to that feeling. I fight with my emotions with activists on social media. It’s gotten toxic, the feeling of righteousness of being right, thus being better (which isn’t true). I have to be careful what I consume and how I think about activists and how easy (it seems) to dehumanize activists. Thank you for the thoughtful conversation!

[@JohnJames-kw5de]

What a brilliant episode and the conversation that many long to have about what really matters. Thank you both. I shall listen to it again

[@_abracadabra]

What a splendid interview!

[@nonielevi3901]

Loved this conversation❤😇

[@gidge9778]

2 of my favorite ladies!

[@adipoem]

The political spectrum is not right vs left, it's those who want to be left alone, and those who won't leave anyone alone.

[@timkunkel5431]

Yeah, that would be 'right' & 'left'.

[@fox1actual]

Which is Right vs Left.

[@skylinefever]

As if the right would leave alone sex workers and weed smokers. Well, some say libertarianism is conservatism smoking weed.

[@sisuriffs]

« Certainement, qui est en droit de vous rendre absurde est en droit de vous rendre injuste. » -Voltaire

[@fryingpantz]

This is a great conversation.

[@true2theoryapriori497]

Two of my favourite KZbinrs!! ❤❤

[@bottlethrower1544]

New fan, love the tone and presentation and boldly spoken truth

[@budawang77]

Great that you're making a distinction between progressive/left and woke.

[@s.a.vanvleck45]

I don't. If you are progressive/left and not woke, you are not internally consistent.

[@budawang77]

@@s.a.vanvleck45 That's not true. Being "progressive" can mean taking climate science seriously and believing the state should provide a social safety net, like universal health care. But it doesn't mean you have to buy into all the stuff about race and gender. This are completely separate issues. .

[@s.a.vanvleck45]

The ESG bugaboo is integral to the neo-Marxist program, which unifies CRT, gender affirmation, etc. Read James Lindsay.

[@cmonman3639]

@@budawang77 It's all communism -- climate nonsense in particular.

[@kevinmcfarlane2752]

@@s.a.vanvleck45Not true. Woke is a recent phenomenon. There are plenty of progressives who reject identity politics.

[@AndyJarman]

Like all things Woke, the word Woke signifies someone who has been duped and is sleep walking.

[@xLeeroycranex]

Good to see the channel growing. Yeah, young me was swayed by that stuff even before it was fashionable like it is today. I don't think people understand what kind of damage this stuff does to your psyche and your 'mental apparatus' which, then, impacts the people around you. That young left leaning men and women (but particularly women) have the worst mental illness rates? No coincidence that all of this correlates with the rise of 'wokeism'. To me, it must be stymied and condemned on the level Stalinism is before it wastes an entire generation of young people.

[@skylinefever]

I often think about how the Moldbug Atheocracy and the ordinary theocracy love to break minds to get subservient sheep.

[@JosephChristopher4ever]

It's not that you're late and you can't come in, it's more of a glad you could finally make it. And it says something that they got at all,. If you ever joined anything that had a rank and file system, vet with vets, newbies with newbies. Vets school the newbs on what going on thus far and now, so since you're very, very late. Just listen first and get the whole story before you start manifesting your destiny and such. Life's more fun with no filter btw... if you listen you listen, if you don't, well go bump your head and come back later.

[@Banana04218]

This was just beautiful. And so powerful. I really appreciated hearing about your spiritual experiences ❤️🙏

[@BeccainHawaii]

I saw it in the early 2000's at CSU Monterey Bay. My university had a panel of non white woman give a talk and it was all about how terrible white males are. I was blown away by the amount of hate they were speaking. A friend at the time, a white male, told me about his professor teaching racism being prejudice plus power in his class. Later at another CSU, I took a medical anthropology class and it was all about transgenders and homosexuals in different cultures. This was the topic for the whole semester. I was so disappointed in the class, it should have had a different description of the professor was only going to discuss this one topic.

[@davebarbadillo]

This conversation got better and better...wise...absolutely brilliant. Sorry about this, but it's good that you are older than you look, because wisdom comes with experience.

[@franktaylor7978]

Keri should come to San Francisco. There’s a huge shift away from ‘woke’ and its variants but preserve the creative and forward thinking

[@sweetsendaedreamr]

Well that's false. Businesses are killing the economy out here and not having safety nets because they don't want to pay taxes is making it worse.

[@joostvandegoor150]

I really loved the conversation about spirituality and religion. It was deep, honest and inspiring. It seems to me that you guys, although not exactly on the same path, are not so very far apart. In any case, you had a great conversation about the spiritual, and I would love to see a continuation of it.

[@adamworrall4147]

Great interview, Leslie. 😎😎❤❤

[@michaelhardiman146]

Greetings from the West of Ireland. I would love to discuss my new book "The Captured Mind: When sincere beliefs lead to moral failure." With you. We live in dangerous times. Well done on raising consciousness.

[@ribbrascal]

What they are doing to Ireland is pure evil Ireland belongs to the Irish

[@DepDawg]

Did you write The Path to Mass Evil? If so, that was very good. I’d be eager to see you on Leslie’s podcast. My family lived through the Holocaust and a few escaped Albania during Hoxha’s regime. My grandmother was pregnant and had her 2 youngest children with her when she was caught and sent to the camps. Only she and her newborn daughter walked out. As a child, I REALLY struggled to understand how these things could happen. I’ve tried to understand how people could support genocide, ethnocide, cruelty to specific people or people groups. It’s frightening to consider how easily a nation can embrace a dangerous ideology to the point that ordinary “good” people become collaborators to atrocity, all while thinking they are being virtuous.

[@AndyJarman]

I couldn't date a woman like Keri, our hats would suffer too much damage.

[@NeferkaMichael]

Very enlightening, thank you.

[@ribbrascal]

I'll never forget how I discovered Keri (and Carter, Unsafe Space, rip), I did a YT search for creepy cat lady Robin DiAngelo She is a light

[@robertp5998]

This was a great conversation. Great info. Great hearing about awakening to God journey.

[@iPhi-YT]

ah centrism at its finest! it's good to be enlightened :D

[@lisahorth8430]

I'm new here, but I just wanted to say that I LOVED this interview -- both of you did a fantastic job!!

[@andrjsh]

The best that I can distill wokery down to is the perception of society and human relations as exploitative and venal, whether based on race, sex, etc. it does not matter. A far finer way to see human relations as based in service, duty, love, sacrifice responsibility, etc.

[@thegrimharvest]

That ties completely into the absolute binary ideological thinking of their concept of oppression. Everyone and everything is either an oppressor or a victim. And victims are always virtuous, until they've done something that the collective hive mind decides is wrong, then they were never a victim they were always an oppressor. It's taking a significant chunk of society and turning them into strawman scapegoats and holding them and only them as somehow responsible for everything that has, is, or ever will happen that was evil, wrong, bad, or even just unpleasant. It posits that all (not ×) are victims of (×) so it's justified to victimize (×) and do to them everything that was ever done to the (not ×). While also claiming that they never do that, but that it's good and right and just when they do it. There's no building or advancement, no creation of some new order, it's just vandalism and tearing down what exists. If they achieved their ideological goals tomorrow and all (oppressor identify groups) were gone, they would still be just as angry, just as miserable, and they would have to find or declare a new (×) to base their ideology on in opposition to. They would have to make a new strawman to be their oppressors that they must fight to overthrow. There's no end point, no victory conditions, nothing less than irrational self contradictory utopia will suffice. With no metrics to measure for what that would ever look like to know that they finally reached it. Just an infinite unending eternal "struggle" so that they always have infinitely more still left to do, because no matter how much they've progressed the goal post shifts so that they have never achieved anything of significance, and they're always just one step away from both being completely defeated and one step away from achieving utopia at last. Utopia never comes and they never get defeated. But it could, and they might be, so you unaffiliated 3rd party have to sacrifice yourself to their demands and submit yourself to their authority and give power and swear allegiance to their chosen authority figures. Or else you are irredeemably evil and a strawman oppressor. You don't want to be an irredeemably evil strawman oppressor, do you?

[@TrebizondMusic-cm6fp]

No wonder I enjoy listening to you two: I'm about the same age. You should come to a ren faire in Utah this summer and listen to me play music and hang out. We can make philosophical observations about fandom subcultures.

[@TrebizondMusic-cm6fp]

Also, I was very touched hearing of your spiritual experiences. Leslie's talk about the loneliness of the One and the longing for connection etc. starting around 1:04 is close to the heart of my own understanding and conviction of my knowledge of God. That and Keri's understanding of the need for opposition and agency: something that is a particularly cherished concept among my faith group. Everyone has the capacity for evil, yes. I never could trust people who jealously proclaimed their own goodness.

[@RonCopperman]

Great channel, glad I found you. As for your channel name, I have a thought to share... According to ChatGPT - "radical" can be associated with addressing issues at their root or fundamental level rather than dealing with superficial aspects....Sooo Radical Center is getting to the root of issues and leaving the superficial behind. (Sorry that school messed you up, you would have been a great shrink.) Sincerely, The X-Burnout jail minister

[@margueritespringer3687]

Great discussion Thanks

[@AndyJarman]

I found C G Jung's perspective on life allowed me to accept the bible and God as a part of me. As children we spend a great effort defining ourselves, separating from our parents. Quiet stories hinting at the adventure to be had in the world of the mind and the creatures that inhabit us are a great gift. As we become more sure of our boundaries and gain the confidence to explore our quiet internal corners we become able to accept there is a father and mother of all fathers and mothers. And a friend whose more loyal and wise than any friend. And they are within us.

[@ARTWITHAIM]

I have only recently started trying to be regular in making videos. I have been making videos for many years, but being routine about it is a different story. I think being an artist, and ahead of the herd with the political (and subsequently psychological/sociological process) dots, makes it very challenging to hit the right angle, tone... note.... that a wider audience is ready to listen to, and even absorb as possible. It is a challenge to strike a note that isn't immediately, and violently, canceled by most.... nonetheless listened to long enough to have an opportunity to gain traction. You stated in this talk that you consider those of us who have been "base" (a term I never heard before) for a very long time exhibit a certain "narcissism" that causes us to be repellent to newcomers. I think that narcissism is an epidemic (by methodical design) in current society internationally, so you are not wrong in a sense. However, for me, it is more a feeling of deep isolation... now decades of rejection, scathing excommunication, virtual cancelling, demonetization, largely covert censorship, gang-stalking/digital terrorism, etc., that creates this deeply rooted feeling of urgency to be seen and understood, so the terror can subside from gaining someone truly on your side. I don't mean a terror from the heaviness of the knowledge, and experience, we have about the very sick global conditions... yes, knowing the whole of humanity is run by psychopaths, and deeply perverse people is a certain horror, but one that makes sense logically. They behave as psychopaths with immense power would behave. The true terror comes from the social fabric of a generational enabling by the entire world of working class people. They lay down their lives to defend and glorify their abusers, and destroy anyone who dare hold a mirror to that. You are right to say that it isn't just a left/right dichotomy..... the duopoly/oligopoly of thinking is international, and it is funneling us to tech-totalitarian monoculture.... quickly. Worse, we are in myriad ways committing assisted suicide, to give rise to transhumanity. So.... I don't believe that in all cases, the rage response from front line truthers (who have so many battle scars that we've lost count) is only due to narcissism and ego issues.... it is feeling like an outcast, condemned to a remote island where none of your messages in a bottle, smoke signals, screams or tears are heard and properly responded to. Though.... you are definitely correct that this element of resultant desperation for water after surviving hundreds of mirages, is not bringing people 'into the fold' so to speak. You start to look like a raving soapboxer who is screaming about the sky falling, believing themselves a visionary, and simultaneously begging for CHANGE... literally and figuratively. People are equally fascinated by me, and also triggered repeatedly. The myth of Cassandra in full effect. Good ole predictive programming in all media cocooning our collective minds... funneling us like little plastic pieces on the RISK board... to their new normal. A psychopaths playground. Enjoyed my foray into your channel. Thought it could be interesting to talk to another American Bicentennial... as we are the gap generation.... I am an artist (AIRtiste.com), and thinking about doing a pocast called "outside the lines"..... I have a lot to say, but organizing how to curate it becomes very complicated for me. My mom was a nurse, president of the mental hospital workers union for a very long time.... she worked with mentally ill from high profile/wealth families, and then later went onto working with the criminally insane. So I relate to your energy. I think I have written you a long enough book for now! Take care. -Air

[@TalkingWeirdStuff24]

I think I am understanding your comment, and if so I agree. Part of the reason I do not engage much in 'anti-woke' (or whatever you want to call it) activism anymore is because I was tired of doing work to try and help only to be blamed by other activists for the problem I was trying to help solve. I've seen so many activists in the 'anti-woke' community with HUGE blinders on: they refuse to believe that any demographic they are a part of could possibly be part of the problem, and so they blame you (me) for the issue and refuse to see the part 'their' demographic plays in it. I could go into more detail but I'll spare you; you can ask if you really want to hear me go on about it, I suppose.

[@ARTWITHAIM]

@@TalkingWeirdStuff24 I am not actively avoiding, or participating in, "anti-woke" or woke.... or much of anything that feels the need to label themselves under an intentionally meaningless, manufactured division inducing, banner. I have worked with many famous faces in entertainment, LGB (before T, and definitely before P+), I've worked in high places in political journalism, worked among federal level whistleblowers.... was core team on a Constitutional lawsuit against Obama for the NDAA (National Defense Authorization Act- Noam Chomsky, Chris Hedges, Daniel Ellsberg were plaintiffs).... Worked with the "Disinformation Dozen", Millions Against Medical Mandates.... doctors and scientists around the world since Covid too....... so.... I am mostly educating and consulting via my organization (Art WIth AIm) platforms. I have been living in Russia on and off since 2018 too. I am in Moscow now. So woke is something extremely new, sudden and very obviously funded by international Globalist groups like WEF/UN. It's roots are in the Toronto Slut March that led to the pronoun propaganda campaigns. To me it is a very bizarre phenomenon, born of the end stages of the complete demoralization of the west..... the experiment of "freedom" itself. The power brokers who hide behind transnational, philanthrocapitalist, mega-monopoly banking want pop reduction, and they want total control over life itself. The new colonialist takeover on a cellular/DNA level. With GMO, implants, AI, 5-6G, graphene oxide, and synthetic RNA... they are building the internet of things. They don't want humans anymore... they want us altered, so they can take inadvertent ownership, and patent us. The New Normal Gods of the New Age Metaverse. Once we are transhuman, the human experience is extinct. They also have the power to remotely control life. The pronouns and Wokeism is about creating cognitive chaos, that shatters collaboration, solidarity down to a family level- where they break us down, and isolate us so much, that we will clamor for their evil solutions. No questions... just blind, TRANCE-formation, compliance. Creating a completely amorphous biological reality, where little children can usurp their parents authority, and get a sex change, or brain implants, chipped, etc., is the goal. It's covert human trafficking- using convenience and "inclusion" as the lure. Handing over our privacy on a silver platter with all the digital passports, biometric facial/retina/palm/fingerprint scans..... for our safety, for the climate, or whatever else they make up..... once they have the nano-scale technology inside of us, the invisible fence of the new prison will be in our "cells." The greatest problem is people not understanding the cold sophistication of the real plan. Anyone anti-woke or woke or pro-BRICS nations and anti-west... or any other either/or..... is engaging in othering that misses the forest for the trees. The battle will determine whether humans get replaced by non-humans, and we are at the event horizon. Trans-movement is about the trance-movement... the zombie apocalypse where we willingly let known rapists hastily pump their experimental fluids into our bodies, let them watch us and control us like SIMS. It's that bad.

[@thecontagiouscajun4795]

Amazing conversation! Love it!

[@Skarlet-ju8sr]

This is going to be good

[@shanemacc]

You ladies should have James Lindsey on the pc

[@VedantaKesari]

Vietnam era peace activist Thich Naht Hanh said to understand both sides, but when you do, both sides are suspicious of you.

[@fox1actual]

One side is usually going to be more Right than the other.

[@nicholasboeder1958]

Love the conversation..yes and yes

[@SphereMusicCafe]

Yessss I love you both.

[@mljrotag6343]

Kari was mentioning a recent video about values vs. ideology. I could not find this. Does anyone have a link.

[@Andre_Louis_Moreau]

Great convo! I got to the party early', which is subjective, not as early as others. I occasionally remind myself how/why that was. I experienced 2 religious cults. The 2nd short lived, and what got me studying authoritarian thought reform tactics in serious depth. Kerri has excellent takes on everything. Politics is really important, but it's not going to save us, it's the cultural battle that's crucial. For those waking up, they're disoriented, confused af, in a way that's difficult to describe. So it's important to know what brainwashing does, to know what's needed. All brainwashing does is rewire a persons moral framework away from their traditional culture's moral framework. Our culture's traditional moral framework happens to be mostly antithetical to authoritarian tactics as outlined in Robert Lifton's 8. Ours being based in old school Locke, JS Mill, basic human rights. Which is colloquially synonymous with God given rights, and inspired both Christianity, and the magna carta. Shouldn't be surprising the ideals of liberty and freedom are antithetical to authoritarian tactics. So that's the direction where I point the confused. We can only stave off authoritarianism by our masses holding to a moral authority that supercedes the state. Hopefully giving any state authoritarianism the middle finger. It's easy to see how "God" does that, but so does old school basic human rights. "How dare the state or anyone violate another person's basic human rights!" Not as 'secular' as it seems. Break it down, that's me, someone all but a rare few think is an atheist... With moral indignation, appealing to some nameless, nebulous higher moral authority than myself, the state, or any human being. Those waking up do want direction, and it's important to give them some, but not too much. Our culture's traditional moral framework is broad, while not going to some other authoritarian ideology.

[@marshaclark1398]

I enjoyed Unsafe space

[@NiinaSKlove]

😊 I like that Keri using profanity even if she’s a Christian. In other words, still being herself. A lot of born again/ new Christians would alter the way they speak, but obviously she doesn’t. - Keeping it real.

[@mrlawilliamsukwarmachine4904]

These two women look a LOT younger than they say they are.

[@theradicalcenter]

Why, thank you! :)

[@42tomasz]

19:00 strong words. thanks for produce!

[@spartan6005]

She just got another subscriber 😃😃😃

[@greenman5506]

I have a completely woke colleague, (share an office wall) that I went "golden calm" with her and I watched her drop the hostility over time, (she was infuriated that I voted for Trump and he won) and at least we function warmly and cordially, and therefore functionally, which was the problem with her prior. Takes a lot of thought and careful monitoring of every word and tone when engaged. Bonus was that I became more calm and less stressed, mind more able to do job at hand. These folks really mess up the workplace functionality otherwise.

[@NiinaSKlove]

Cool guest! Here’s another guest suggestion for you; Dan McClellan. 😊 That would definitely be an interesting conversation!

[@evad7933]

Kerri seems to think that honesty is always the best policy. Life is not that simple.

[@thecloudsaretalking830]

To think that stating facts is now considered radical. Wow.

[@fryingpantz]

See you at Minds Fest!

[@dionbram]

"If a thing is free to be good it is also free to be bad. And free will is what has made evil possible. Why, then, did God give them free will? Because free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having." ~C. S. Lewis

[@benguensche]

When God really needs a friend, sometimes the devil is all he’s got

[@stephen1137]

The RIGHT/LEFT paradigm is helpful when you're distinguishing between ideas and policies and agendas which derive from the natural law and the derivative recognition of private property and personal rights versus the materialist and atheist religion of Karl Marx which asserts the core dogma that private property is evil and personal rights can only be properly replaced by asserting the subordination of individual interests to the interests of the state and all the euphemisms which are attached to that, such as "the greater good"; "public safety"; "human resources".

[@krisspinden]

Great discussion. I love the idea of humanizing each other. This is just re-establishing a correct perspective of who we are, which is more than our ideology, skin color, or gender. We are noble souls created to participate in an ever advancing civilization. I would love to introduce anyone here, that is also looking for that spiritual connection, to the Bahá'i faith. I know this is a hard sell in the comments of a You Tube episode, however, I view it as a gem that I want to share with others with no attachments to outcome. Christianity is a beautiful faith that has led mankind to advance morally, spiritually, and materialy into higher expression of ourselves. The Bahá'i faith acknowledges Christ as the Son and upholds His sinnless nature. So, why Bahá'i? We'll that is a long and very interesting discussion that I would love to have.

[@thegrimharvest]

I'm not much interested in converting, but I admire your candor and your conviction to make such an attempt. I should like to hear more, even if I do not intend to convert. I think it might be productive for you to have someone else to bounce off, so you're not just proselytizing into the void. So for starters, you accept Jesus of Nazareth as the Christ, the annointed one, messiah, savior, sinless only begotten Son of God, who died as the perfect, ultimate, absolute final once and for all sin offering? Pardon the excessive length of the sentence and the long set of descriptors and classifications. I wanted to try to be as clear as possible, and give you a good deal of material to go off of. I'm sure just unpacking the many parts of that question will lead to a (hopefully) productive conversation and give you an opportunity to represent your beliefs in a better more fuller detail than if you had to just try to state them without being prompted.

[@skylinefever]

I often said that being born a while male is the original sin in the moldbug atheocracy cathedral, and I won't do businesses with anyone using original sin to manipulate others.

[@EduardoRodriguez-du2vd]

It is important to distinguish what one means by ideology and whether it is possible to be a human being operating outside of all ideology. It is not possible to consider yourself completely grounded in reality and at the same time be a religious person. If one is religious and makes decisions following religious criteria, those decisions no longer have a basis in reality. The basis of human social relationships is empathy.

[@kevinmcfarlane2752]

Ideology is just a system of ideas, generally political or philosophical. That’s what the dictionary says.

[@EduardoRodriguez-du2vd]

@@kevinmcfarlane2752 Ideology is the system of beliefs that the individual uses to interpret reality. We all operate within an ideological framework that determines our interpretation of the world. There are no people who lack that framework.

[@fox1actual]

@@EduardoRodriguez-du2vdand yet there are a lot of Leftist atheists who don’t operate in reality.

[@MissMentats]

1:08:30 that’s not the discussion. It’s along the lines of “if there is a god who is all loving, all good, all powerful and whatnot, why would evil exist/how is it possible for such a god to allow evil while possessing those attributes?” Something similar to that and then extrapolating

[@channel1_channel]

Keri's old podcast co-host Carter (Larren?) is a smug atheist. He put me off that podcast at times. I'm agnostic fwiw.

[@mortagon1451]

I'm an atheist and used to follow the new atheist and atheist plus crowd but these days, apart from the OG's like Dawkins, they are insufferable and has become just as close minded and dogmatic as the religions they criticize.

[@skylinefever]

I never really could get along with many mainstream athiests. They all stunk of the BS left. I say can't feed 'em don't breed 'em. If that's classism and racism, feed someone else's careless brood yourself.

[@channel1_channel]

@@mortagon1451 I once interviewed a guy who from a still picture from a cartoon, described what would happen within that cartoon. Later when I took a closer look at the cartoon which featured a mage and the four elements, I realised what had happened. I also have a friend who partakes in Enochian based magic. He has shown me photos from the ritual which I am not to post online.

[@fijaystudio]

Radical centre. YYYYYEEEEESSSSSS!

[@marshaclark1398]

Freedom

[@marshaclark1398]

Sick and tired of government controls on our personal life

[@youtubetravel937]

I know a lot of people who are inclusive, progressive and open to Christ.

[@mytmouse57]

Being woke to wokeness is the new wokeness.

[@interestedpart2650]

Excellent

[@NinjaKittyBonks]

8:40AM (PST) Wednesday... blocked. Currently chatting on my friends channel, so you are indeed a target, Ms. Reason 😡 EDIT: I tried a chat here just before _this_ comment... blocked! I went back to my friends channel... now blocked! Was a 1/2 hour on his channel, but moment I chatted here... POOF to both!😡

[@kadams4458]

@NinjaKittyBonks They may be identifying the associated accounts by IP address. Sometimes a kitty just needs a VPN... You know, for being sneaky, as cats are wont to do. 😂

[@NinjaKittyBonks]

@@kadams4458 .. I have been dealing with this over well over 1 month. I see a VERY definite pattern of how, why and when my ability to chat is disabled. There will be a "12 hour ban" when I cannot chat on ANY channel, except in the 3 that I moderate. It will often take about 2 min, for the algorithm to realize I am chatting on one of 3 particular "wrong-thinker" channels and... POOF! I cannot chat again for 12 hours, except ones I moderate. I have seen an auto-sign in message to the chat box specifically and NOT KZbin. I have never gotten any warnings, strikes, messages of any kind from KZbin and since my moderated channels are fine, this is targeted by an UN-official action. . This is an employee, who does not like what I say (never threatened or incited, but am a "wrong thinker", so written a specific algorithm for yours truly. I am now telling this story a lot are seeing me vanish from chat when I am still there. A VPN is great for anonymity in general, but this is me while signed in to this platform.

[@world_musician]

@4:35 being anti woke is about being awake to the things that are happening in the world. words dont mean things anymore.

[@MaureenKilloranhypnosis]

Thanks

[@mariepicard8385]

Great talk ladies! I'm wondering if anyone out there has noticed a pattern indicating a 2 way door between woke and Christians. Are they 2 sides of the same coin? Would a good alternative to filling the "god sized hole" with woke or Christianity be to embrace the mystery of the universe and the idea that the line between good and evil does in fact run through every human heart. If we accept the fact that humans have created gods for thousands of years in order to explain the unexplained, and that the teachings passed down reflect both sides of the human heart, we can then chose to embrace the good teachings and reject the evil ones. The unexplained is there to nourish our curiosity and sense of wonder. Those who claim to know the answers stop one important vein of personal growth and can sometimes become arrogant. Just throwing that out there.

[@thegrimharvest]

Would you care to elaborate on that 2 sides of the coin idea a bit further? The closest I can suggest is that "woke" is similar to a religion. It's sort of a very uncharitable version of the idea of "the weaker brother" argument from the New Testament writings. If I know that my doing (×) will cause my weaker brother to go astray and sin because of it, then I should give up (×) for their sake, even though I know (×) is not harmful, it is for my weaker brother, who does not yet have the same understanding or conviction as myself. It's like that but from the perspective of the "weaker brother" pointing accusatory to anything that the "stronger" or perhaps "older" brother is doing, and telling him that he cannot do (×) because the "weaker brother" says it's wrong. It's the "weaker brother" wanting to control and manipulate the other brother, not to ask him to join him and then lift each other up, but solely to tear the other brother down to his own level and insist that he stay there, so he can step on him to take his place. The Christian ideal is of humility and self sacrifice for the sake of another's well being, so that different people come together in cooperation and peace, to lift each other up. To be for each other's benefits. The "woke" example is to try to switch places by guilt or coercion or by force. Not asking for help, to get lifted up, but to get ahead by knee capping someone you find in a position higher than your own, because you believe that they don't deserve to be there, and only have whatever it is they do because they did so by handicapping everyone else. So it's justified for you to then handicap them. They get the "weaker brother" argument backwards and misconstrued. It's not about the lower tearing down the higher to step on them to get over, it's about the higher accepting limitations to help the lower become higher themselves. Now how many Christians actually live out and accurately reflect the actual ideal and practice the teaching is another thing. Hypocrisy is a very human flaw. But the idea is to willingly self sacrifice and take on limits that you otherwise wouldn't, for the sake of benefiting someone who still has and is bound by the limitations. That is my understanding and my perspective on it, at any rate. We are all flawed people and capable of both great empathy and love but also greed, maliciousness and inhumanity to each other. Religious or not, we should try to understand and remember our flawed nature, and try towards getting along in spite of our differences and expect that we are going to disagree on things. If the internet has demonstrated anything, it's that we can rarely if ever agree as a whole on almost anything, from the mundane and trivial to the consequential and imperative.

[@mariepicard8385]

@@thegrimharvest I've seen a quite a few people go from one to the other, in both directions. It's the idea that when you go to both extremes, you end up finding the same people.

[@thegrimharvest]

@@mariepicard8385 I see. That makes a certain kind of sense. Diagnosing the problem but coming to the same conclusion, just changing from coke to pepsi, and thinking the brand itself was what was misdiagnosed.

[@skylinefever]

I tried for years to get God to show up to that God shaped hole. It never happened a single day in my life. I wasted 6 years trying. Years later I would find about how I was always and aspies, and aspies just don't get it.

[@mariepicard8385]

@@thegrimharvest Exactly, if people were adopting some kind of deist view of the world, it probably would be harmless, and even helpful for humans. I iust don't understand the appeal of the Abrahamic god. He was a brutal Sumarian storm god, his father was named El and he had a wife named Ashura. How his worship survived this long is due to brilliant political propaganda in times of war. I just don't get how anyone can believe in this particular god knowing all that we know about the evolution of human myths and pantheons.

[@Uriel-Septim.]

Don`t steal, neither property, life or the truth.

[@skylinefever]

Don't steal access to sex. I endorse paying a pro for consent.